========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:33:54 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Ashbery bash Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron-- There's Mary Kinzie, in _The Cure of Poetry in an Age of Prose_ Vernon Shetley, in _After the Death of Poetry_ both have it in for Mr. Ashbery. And you're sure to have colleagues and students with something to say on the matter. Susan PS Hey, Pujols is back, and the Cards are winning again! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 05:14:24 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ryan fitzpatrick Subject: Re: magazines Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed yeah, dandelion has a website, but I don't think it's been updated in a while. But then again, neither has filling Station's. But of course the website isn't really a reflection of the magazine's quality is it. ryan >From: Mark Truscott >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: magazines >Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 18:22:55 -0400 > >Just noticed in my copy of the latest issue that dANDelion does have a >site. It's www.english.ucalgary.ca/dandelion/ > >Mark > > >On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Rob McLennan wrote: > >>if its magazines yr looking for, here are a couple id recommend - >> >>Queen Street Quarterly, Toronto >> the best little magazine in Canada, id say. publishes people >>like >>George Bowering, derek beaulieu, Michael Holmes, Karen MacCormack, >>Steve >>McCaffery, Peter Jaegar, a. rawlings, donato mancini, Stephen >>Brockwell, >>John Barlow, etcetcetcetc >> http://www.qsq.ca/issue.php >> >>filling station magazine, Calgary >> an impressive mag run by the young(er) crew of writers & >>critics & >>poets running around Calgary. has published over its, what, 10 years, a >>near-whos who of Calgary writing, & from other places as well. >> http://www.fillingstation.ca/ >> >>West Coast Line >> Vancouver writing magazine. various theme issues, currenly >>"Writing >>Rupture: Iranian Emigration Writing": Guest Edited by Peyman >>Vahabzadeh. >>the first one on this list to keep the website up to date >> http://www.sfu.ca/west-coast-line/ >> >>other impressive mags include dANDelion (no website) outtta Calgary, >>Open >>Letter out of London ON, Matrix in Montreal, (orange) outta the >>University >>of Calgary, etcetcetcetc. >> >>a good list of those with websites can be found on my links page, >>www.track0.com/rob_mclennan >> >> >> >>-- >>poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian >>poetics >>(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action >>Network - >>Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada >>k0c 1t0 >>www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw >>Press) >> >> _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 22:14:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: Ashbery Parody(?) In-Reply-To: <3EB051B1.9B1E0E35@earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit less go front . . . mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Chris Stroffolino > Stroffolino > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 3:44 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Ashbery Parody(?) > > > Does anybody know of a poem (I'm told it's just dripping with bitterness) > by a poet named John Haines called HOTEL LAUNDROMAT???? > > If so, could you forward it me back or front channel.... > > Chris > > > > Michael Leddy wrote: > > > Aaron Belz said > > > > > I seek early John Ashbery reviews in which his work is dismissed as > > > too complex, abstract, or obscurantist. Or negative reviews of Ashbery > > > from any period, preferably from a prominent critic. > > > > Aaron, > > > > A pretty infamous example is by Theroux (Alexander? Paul?). I think it > > appeared in The Nation, sometime in the last ten years. I do remember a > > response by Ashbery--I'm almost certain it was in The > Nation--in which he > > said he was happy to be in the company of the other writers Theroux was > > calling "obscurantist." (I think that's an accurate quotation.) > I remember > > Theroux railing about whether Ashbery could justify the number of > > semi-colons in a line in a poem from The Tennis Court Oath. > ("Europe"? Maybe > > "Idaho"?) Sorry I don't have the details of publication (a quick Google > > search for "ashbery" and "theroux" didn't help). > > > > Michael ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 01:38:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: stele ABU.YA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII stele ABU.YA aa aaaaaaaa zaa aazaaaaaaaa azaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaz-aa aaaaaaaaaaaa zaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aa aaza aaa aaaaa aa -zaaa aa aaaaaaa aazaaaaaaaaa aaaa aaa aaaaaa aa zaaaaaa azaaaaaa aaaa aaaa aaaaaaaza zaa zaaazaaaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaaa zaa -aaaaa aaaa aa aaaaaazaaaa aaaaaa aaaaa -a aa aaa-a, za aaaa za z aaaaaaazaaaa aa aaa aaaaaa zaaaaa aa aaa -aaaaazaa zazaaaa zaaaaa aa aaa aaaa aazaaaaza aaaaa aa aaa zaaaa zaa aaa aaaaazaaaaa aa aaa aaaaa aa aaa aaza aa zaaaaaaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaazaaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaaa aaa zaa aaaa -aa aaaaazaaaa aa aaa -aaaaa azaaa aaa zaa -aaaaa aaa aaaaa -aa aaza aaa aaaaa aa AB.BA.HI.A.aaaaaaaa zaa aa aaaaa zaa azaa aaaa zaa -aaaaa zaa aa aaaaa zaa aaaaa aaaa zaa aaaaa zaa azaazaaaaa aazaaaaaa aaaaa aaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaa -aaa aaaa zaa aaaaaa zaa zaa aaaaaaaaaaa aa aza zaa aazaa zaa aaaa zaa aazaa z aaaa aa aaaaaaza aaaaaaaaaaaaa azaaaaaa aaa aaaazaa aaaaaaa aaaaaaaza aaaa aaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaza aaaaaa zaa aaaaaaaa zaa aaa aa aaaaaaaa zaa aazaaaaaaaa azaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaz-aa aaaaaaaaaaaa zaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aa aaza aaa aaaaa aa -zaaa aa aaaaaaa aazaaaaaaaaa aaaa aaa aaaaaa aa zaaaaaa azaaaaaa aaaa aaaa aaaaaaaza zaa zaaazaaaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaaa zaa -aaaaa aaaa aa aaaaaazaaaa aaaaaa aaaaa -a aa aaa-a, za aaaa za z aaaaaaazaaaa aa aaa aaaaaa zaaaaa aa aaa -aaaaazaa zazaaaa zaaaaa aa aaa aaaa aazaaaaza aaaaa aa aaa zaaaa zaa aaa aaaaazaaaaa aa aaa aaaaa aa aaa aaza aa zaaaaaaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaazaaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaaa aaa zaa aaaa -aa aaaaazaaaa aa aaa -aaaaa azaaa aaa zaa -aaaaa aaa aaaaa -aa aaza aaa aaaaa aa AB.BA.HI.A.aaaaaaaa zaa aa aaaaa zaa azaa aaaa zaa -aaaaa zaa aa aaaaa zaa aaaaa aaaa zaa aaaaa zaa azaazaaaaa aazaaaaaa aaaaa aaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaa -aaa aaaa zaa aaaaaa zaa zaa aaaaaaaaaaa aa aza zaa aazaa zaa aaaa zaa aazaa z aaaa aa aaaaaaza aaaaaaaaaaaaa azaaaaaa aaa aaaazaa aaaaaaa aaaaaaaza aaaa aaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaza aaaaaa zaa aaaaaaaa zaa aaa aa aaaaaaaa zaa aazaaaaaaaa azaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaz-aa aaaaaaaaaaaa zaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aa aaza aaa aaaaa aa -zaaa aa aaaaaaa aazaaaaaaaaa aaaa aaa aaaaaa aa zaaaaaa azaaaaaa aaaa aaaa aaaaaaaza zaa zaaazaaaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaaa zaa -aaaaa aaaa aa aaaaaazaaaa aaaaaa aaaaa -a aa aaa-a, za aaaa za z aaaaaaazaaaa aa aaa aaaaaa zaaaaa aa aaa -aaaaazaa zazaaaa zaaaaa aa aaa aaaa aazaaaaza aaaaa aa aaa zaaaa zaa aaa aaaaazaaaaa aa aaa aaaaa aa aaa aaza aa zaaaaaaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaazaaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaaa aaa zaa aaaa -aa aaaaazaaaa aa aaa -aaaaa azaaa aaa zaa -aaaaa aaa aaaaa -aa aaza aaa aaaaa aa AB.BA.HI.A.aaaaaaaa zaa aa aaaaa zaa azaa aaaa zaa -aaaaa zaa aa aaaaa zaa aaaaa aaaa zaa aaaaa zaa azaazaaaaa aazaaaaaa aaaaa aaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaa -aaa aaaa zaa aaaaaa zaa zaa aaaaaaaaaaa aa aza zaa aazaa zaa aaaa zaa aazaa z aaaa aa aaaaaaza aaaaaaaaaaaaa azaaaaaa aaa aaaazaa aaaaaaa aaaaaaaza aaaa aaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaza aaaaaa zaa aaaaaaaa zaa aaa aa aaaaaaaa zaa aazaaaaaaaa azaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaz-aa aaaaaaaaaaaa zaa aaaaaaaaaaaa aa aaza aaa aaaaa aa -zaaa aa aaaaaaa aazaaaaaaaaa aaaa aaa aaaaaa aa zaaaaaa azaaaaaa aaaa aaaa aaaaaaaza zaa zaaazaaaaaa aaaaaa aaaaaaa zaa -aaaaa aaaa aa aaaaaazaaaa aaaaaa aaaaa -a aa aaa-a, za aaaa za z aaaaaaazaaaa aa aaa aaaaaa zaaaaa aa aaa -aaaaazaa zazaaaa zaaaaa aa aaa aaaa aazaaaaza aaaaa aa aaa zaaaa zaa aaa aaaaazaaaaa aa aaa aaaaa aa aaa aaza aa zaaaaaaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaazaaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa aaaa aaaaa aaa zaa aaaa -aa aaaaazaaaa aa aaa -aaaaa azaaa aaa zaa -aaaaa aaa aaaaa -aa aaza aaa aaaaa aa AB.BA.HI.A.aaaaaaaa zaa aa aaaaa zaa azaa aaaa zaa -aaaaa zaa aa aaaaa zaa aaaaa aaaa zaa aaaaa zaa azaazaaaaa aazaaaaaa aaaaa aaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaa -aaa aaaa zaa aaaaaa zaa zaa aaaaaaaaaaa aa aza zaa aazaa zaa aaaa zaa aazaa z aaaa aa aaaaaaza aaaaaaaaaaaaa azaaaaaa aaa aaaazaa aaaaaaa aaaaaaaza aaaa aaaa aaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaa aaza aaaaaa zaa aaaaaaaa zaa aaa always among the violent you gaveo add t turnabout of events, a ruseArt News (9868) Tear catastrophic lossIs it available?e a stylus truncated la la la May fil Te {e for ( i = NF; i >= 1; i-- ).NET>+ + + + + + + + + + + + printf "%s ", $i;+++ Reply-To: AY.UBA printf "\n";ion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: smashing girls and boys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Girls are what they wear, and boys are who they hit." Shit not worth one dead hair. This prescribed bloodstained valance, It's a bullshit visaged balance, panache-ridden parlance, barren farm passed as palace and panacea. See here, is this dissimilarity or peaceful parity: this is a cock here in my panties. Smashing girls and boys. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 05:18:02 -0400 Reply-To: poetry@hypobololemaioi.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: Piece-work MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 For my invitation to this conference I understand that in addition to the two universities in Tomsk where I am teaching English this year, Tomsk Polytechnic University and Tomsk State Pedagogical University, I have also to thank the Engineering Plant of the City of Yurga, the Administration of the City of Yurga, the Institute of Education in Siberia, Far East and North, and the Russian Academy of Education. So I ask you to please accept my expression of gratitude for the invitation to contribute a few words in English to this conference. I speak simply as a teacher of English who has taught English last year in Chita, Russia, and in the United States for several years before coming to work in Russia. You can imagine that I have had many conversations with Russian teachers of English about teaching methods, materials, and motivation. So I cannot forget to mention them now, collectively, since I wish to express my gratitude for their inspiring example and their influence, and to express also my awareness of their dedication to their profession. We read all the time that we live in a rapidly changing world, and among these transformations might be included the way English is studied not only in Russia, but around the world. In an earlier time a student might choose to study this language for the same reason they might study German or French or any other of the world's many great languages. Their curriculum would include country studies, culture studies, and strict attention the linguistic structure of that language. But today's students come to the English-language classroom with the awareness that it is the major language for internet communications, employment possibilities, and information. This latter category includes of course the vast amount of technical and scientific information available in English either on the internet or from professional and educational exchanges among scholars and technicians from all countries facilitated by university-sponsored websites and calls for international conferences, and it is the English language which is typically used for these communications and collaborations, even among people who have never travelled to England or America nor studied the culture and customs of the people who live there. This is the contemporary English of the "lingua franca," or English as an International Language, and it is this language which students express the need to learn quickly and efficiently. None of my students at either TPU or TSPU express an interest in teaching English. Instead, they say they are planning to work as interpreters. In their professional journal, "Views," non-native teachers on the English faculty at the University of Vienna have included among their researches an exchange of views about the difference between teaching English as a Foreign Language and teaching English as an International Language, in response to the pressure that is brought to bear on the teaching of English in the university when so many textbooks are currently being published in England and America showing them how to do something which they have been successfully doing for years. The difference, according to this linguistic journal published by a university in Austria, is that contemporary textbooks from England and America are part of a private language school and certification industry that produces materials and especially examinations which are full of many subjective and unconscious attitudes and attributes which they call "Anglo-centrism." This criticism is instructive to me, since it reminds me of difficulties that can arise in the use of a textbook, and I will give you the following example. Using materials from the FCE coursebooks (First Certificate Examination) for a class with teachers from the technical faculties at TPU, we studied a transcript from the coursebook which asked the listener to identify a range of attitudes and opinions expressed by six speakers talking about the experiences of buying a home. I quote from the textbook: "This speaker can't keep up with expenses. This speaker thinks house prices are too high. This speaker thinks that houses are not worth buying. This speaker thinks buying a house is worth the trouble. This speaker worries about paying off a debt. This speaker wishes they hadn't bought their house." There is really only one contrary opinion expressed here among five very similar shades of opinion which express an identical content, and the one contrary opinion appears in the form of an idiom. Accompanying references to mortgages, interest rates, down payments, capital improvements and the depreciation of value, many real-life or idiomatic expressions such as "it wasn't worth it" and "I'd turn back the clock if I could" interfere with the difficulty of understanding the content about private ownership of the home, familiarity with which is assumed by the textbook. I give this as an example of cross-cultural difficulty, since the listener is being asked to learn from the same text at the same time technical vocabulary about such private ownership in addition to the emotional language used to communicate conflicting attitudes towards this ownership, which is one of the central life-defining experiences for most of the people who belong to this society. Not only is the technical vocabulary difficult, but it is introduced in a natural setting where speakers are heard saying they wanted to have something to leave to their children, or you can't plan for anything anymore because you simply don't know what's going to happen, no one's job is secure, or that it was a mistake, and life in the rented flat really wasn't so bad compared to their debt to the bank. On the one hand, it is easy to imagine that such materials are included in an effort to be realistic about just how difficult it is for many people in England and America to own their own homes, and just how many people fail to succeed and who fall victim to personal debt. Maybe it is included to prepare the English-language learner who may immigrate to England, Canada or America for the culture shock of daily life there. On the other hand, the language-learning exercise is easily lost in the questions raised about the concept of the mortgage. Among the questions recently asked of the Ambassador from Greece who spoke at Tomsk Polytechnic University several weeks ago was this question: "What is a market economy?" To which he answered, quite idiomatically, "Oh, wow." A portion of his lecture had distinguished between the regulated market economy of the European Union compared to the unregulated market economy of the United States. The German poet, Rainer Maria Rilke, once wrote about "the appearance of things which bear down from America," though it is a sign of the times that I know this quotation only in translation. Internet technology and its role in the rapid expansion of English as an International Language cannot be ignored, though it is just as difficult to find words adequate to the overwhelming reality of the many and manifold representations of information, knowledge, science and culture transmitted there. In the field of language and culture studies, The University of Michigan and the University of Virginia are two examples among many institutions in the United States which charge an expensive subscription fee to access their archives. The internet has not made knowledge free, though it might be said that the internet has made a vast amount of information widely available, especially if the technician or researcher is fortunate enough to have internet access provided by the institution for which he or she works. For example, all of the issues of the linguistic journal, "Views," which as I mentioned is published by the University of Vienna, is available for free in pdf format, though it is also published in book form for university libraries. I think this is an important model for teachers, writers, researchers and technicians in the emerging global space. For many writers from my generation who had to learn the internet like a second language after we left school, the internet represents the promise of a Public Domain or Digital Commons, and we publish our work without payment, wishing to give away our work in recognition of the immense economic advantage and social privilege we enjoy for one very complex historical reason or another. Yes, our work is creative, and its value is never transparent, unlike the value of advances in the sciences and especially in technology, where we are always reminded of the competition which exists between nations. If the emerging global space increases the possibility of scientific and cultural exchanges among open societies, it is also important to remember that this space has more than one dimension, though it may often appear to be monolingual. Perhaps it is best to think of this space in the plural form or multidimensionality of electronic communications networks. When I think of the synchronic approach to language study in Russia, the close attention to linguistics and the scientific objectification of language, one of the great accomplishments of her universities in the 20th century, and compare it to the diachrony of internet communications, which motivated a French scholar in 1995 to say in a lecture at the University of California at Berkeley, "We are losing time," I am encouraged to believe that the further growth, development and stability of the world's intellectual and scientific cultures and the institutions which communicate this knowledge to the younger generation which, unlike my generation, is global in its perspective and expectations for the future, depends on reciprocal and equal exchanges. Speaking to you today as a teacher of English who also writes poetry, or as a poet who teaches English to pay the rent, as we say, colloquially, to express the sense of the necessity of making a simple living, working with others for equality of opportunity in the emerging global space, I would like to conclude by saying that the international or multinational wealth of scientific and cultural research and the technical application of the applied sciences should be used productively and peacefully to advance the material living conditions for people around the world. This is how I interpret the title of this conference: "Progressive Technologies and Economy in Mechanical Engineering." Thank you again for inviting a foreigner to speak in English at your conference. -- http://hypobololemaioi.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 23:00:32 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JFK Subject: CUTUPS & DAYDREAM 242 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit INSERT DAYDREAM . :::: o o L o o K 0 | 0 O V O :::: . U PEACE piercing its navel JFK www.poetinresidence.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 05:55:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Strang Subject: Reading for 26 Magazine Sunday in Berkeley In-Reply-To: <200305010407.h4147e608738@mailgw.sfsu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sunday, May 4th, 7:30pm Cody's Books, Telegraph Ave, Berkeley a reading to celebrate the publication of 26, a journal of poetry and poetics, issue b readings by four of the many fine contributors to this issue: Gillian Conoley Joseph Kolb Rick London Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:51:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: PLEASE ATTACK APPALACHIA Comments: To: susanlannen@hotmail.com, srfcosta@yahoo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Please Attack Appalachia > > by Mike Bryan > > > > Mr. President, please attack Appalachia. You have promised the Iraqis > > that they will share in the wealth of their oil. We could use some of > > that same sharing here. We have coal and timber that is being > > extracted, yet very little of the profits remain in our area. If the > > Iraqis are to share in the profits from their natural resources, we > > would like to share in the profits from ours. > > > > You have promised healthcare for all Iraqis. We could use the same > > thing here. Far too many of us are without health insurance and > > adequate access to good healthcare facilities. > > > > You have also promised to rebuild the schools in Iraq. We too have > > schools that need rebuilt and that need more funding. > > > > Certainly you can find a justification for attacking us. We have > > weapons of mass destruction. Just go inspect the former uranium > > enrichment plant near Piketon, Ohio. You will still find all sorts of > > radioactive waste on and around that site. Test our waters. Test our > > ground. Test our air. You will find an abundance of chemical and > > biological agents that could be used as weapons. We literally live > > among them. After all, Appalachia is America's third world. Terrorists > > are breeding everywhere. Where there is poverty there is unrest. Where > there is poor education there is suspicion. Where there is neglect >there is anger. As far as potential dangers go, Appalachia should be >near the top of your list. > > > > Stomp out the bad before it turns thoroughly evil. Pre-emptively > > strike us now before it becomes too late. Do it before we make > > something else out of our fertilizer ingredients. Since Appalachia is > > a highly religious area an attack could easily be explained as the > > fulfillment of prophecy. Many here would even agree with your need to > > attack us. In fact, we would probably help supply the troops. > > > > Without any long-term energy strategy or alternative planning, once > > the oil is gone the US will become increasingly dependent on coal and > > wood. Appalachia has lots of that. Even today, the profitability of > > many US businesses would be threatened if Appalachia refused to supply them with electricity, coal, and other resources. Can America afford > > to wait until a crisis is at hand before attacking Appalachia? > > > > The decision is yours. You do not even have to involve the United > > Nations since we are within US borders. You can go it alone. The rest > > of the country will be fairly easy to convince about the need to > > attack us. The national news media will surely rise to your side. > > Prejudice against hillbillies already devalues our lives in comparison to those in the rest of the country, so our devastation and casualties would have to be nearly as high as in Iraq before anyone from outside > > Appalachia complains too loudly. Besides, people here have lived as > > second-class citizens for so long we now thoroughly expect to be > > treated as second-class citizens - and the rest of the nation expects > > to treat us that way. How else could you explain the relatively small > > outcry currently raised by our exceedingly high unemployment rates, > > poor education, high pollution, poor healthcare, high poverty, and > > poor leadership? In fact, attacking us will probably help cement your > > re-election. You might experience some local militia counterstrikes, > > but those will probably be disorganized and minor. After all, > > Appalachia lacks any central command, what with its being comprised of the parts of twelve states and only the whole of one state. West > > Virginia could be your focus. Find someone evil there to target, such > > as Jay Rockefeller. He asked the FBI to investigate those forged > > documents you used to help justify your war against Iraq. How > > embarrassing that must have been: International Atomic Energy Agency > > Chief Mohamed ElBaradei addressed the UN and publicly humiliated you > > by showing your assertion that Iraq was trying to import uranium from > > Niger was based on crudely faked information. Someone should pay for > > such an embarrassment and who better than a Democrat who is a > > Rockefeller? > > > > So Mr. President, you have all the elements you need: weapons of mass > > destruction, a nearly third world enemy, potential terrorists, someone to call evil, and an easy path to victory. Now all you have to do is > > attack. And please, do it soon. We need the reparations, better > > schools, better infrastructure, universal healthcare, and a fair share in the wealth of our own resources. You also promised Iraq democracy. > > We could use that here as well. Please, Mr. President, attack > > Appalachia next. > > > > Mike Bryan mikebryan@appalachiafirst.org -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 09:02:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: Ashbery bash MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Susan, Thank you very much, and thanks to others who helped. Here's what I have so far, by way of negative Ashbery criticism (If I missed someone's suggestion, please let me know): - - - - - - - - Sven Birkerts, "The Ashbery Toolkit", in _Sulfur_ circa 1987 Robert Bly, "Interview with Wayne Dodd," in _American Poetry: Wildness and Domesticity_, (Harper, 1990) James Dickey, --- H.L. Hix, in _As Easy as Lying_ (Etruscan, 2002), Mary Kinzie, in _The Cure of Poetry in an Age of Prose_ Albert Pujols, in _Power to All Fields_ Vernon Shetley, in _After the Death of Poetry_ Theroux, in "The Nation" (?) (I'm looking for it) - - - - - - - - Also, thanks to Jeffrey Jullich, who reminded me of Kermani's bibliography (Garland, 1976), which was actually sitting on my shelf. And now I'm using it. -Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:56:21 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: help with Ashbery Comments: To: mecr@sbcglobal.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The Marianne Moore review appears in the Complete Prose of Marianne Moore (NY: Penguin, 1987) 535-539. She briefly discusses Spicer, Kirby Doyle, Schuyler, Ferlinghetti, O'Hara, Charles Olson, Ed Dorn, -- usually in a one-line comment. I found it mostly positive though I imagine one could say she is damning with faint praise. She has only one sentence on Ashbery, which appears on p. 538. "John Ashbery's 'Instruction Manual' also is a pleasure [she has just praised O'Hara], a documentary with structure and content." She says that the new poetry has a hard task to compete with the new vocabularies of science, which she calls "enthralling," and her main criticism is that the article "The" should have been taken off the title of Allen's anthology, and the book called "New American Poetry," because it leaves out such interesting new poets [to her] as Daniel Hoffman, Robert Bagg, and George Starbuck. At any rate, Marianne Moore wouldn't be able to complain much about obscurantism. She's as tough to read as any. Even in this she appears to be saying something in her last paragraphs about the squalor of writing about drug addiction and what actually calls "civic parasites" seems to be an indictment, but this seems to be a general comment, and she's too politic to attack anyone directly. But I've always appreciated her high praise of Corso (even though he was both a drug addict and what I suppose could be called a civic parasite, whatever she meant by that). She cites a quatrain, and says he has "vehemence," among other nice things. She especially seems to enjoy Charles Olson, though she tries to link his poetics to older formulations propounded by her great friend Kenneth Burke -- who lived to be 95 or something. Btw. Can anybody think of an important American modernist who attained the age of a 100 or more? There's Ernst Junger in Germany. Soupault got to be 92 among the French surrealists. Pierre Klossowski was 95. Moore was I think only 85 or so. Painters seem to last longer than writers. Balthus was in his nineties, as was Picasso. But very few seem to last past 100. Bob Hope and Irving Berlin, yes, but what about American poets? Who got to be oldest? -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:15:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: help with Ashbery In-Reply-To: <3EB151B5.1964A925@delhi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Btw. Can anybody think of an important American modernist who attained > the age > of a 100 or more? There's Ernst Junger in Germany. Soupault got to > be 92 > among the French surrealists. Pierre Klossowski was 95. Moore was I > think > only 85 or so. Painters seem to last longer than writers. Balthus > was in his > nineties, as was Picasso. But very few seem to last past 100. Bob > Hope and > Irving Berlin, yes, but what about American poets? Who got to be > oldest? > > -- Kirby > > Carl Rakosi, 100 this year & still going strong. ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:19:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: help with Ashbery Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3EB151B5.1964A925@delhi.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Carl Rakowski is either 99 or 100. He and his wife - who's name momentarily eludes me - recently came to hear Joanne Kyger and Anselm Hollo read on a Saturday evening for the SF Poetry Center. Perhaps two years ago Carl gave a Poetry Center reading standing up for a straight ahead 45 minutes, only occasionally slipping over a word. A curious anecdote - for no obvious reasons of kinship - Rakowski, Jack Gilbert, Jack Marshall and I all share the same dentist in San Francisco, Dr. Richard Rosen, who also writes and paints. His abstractions - full of Diebenkorn California colors - sitting there in the dentist chair always seem to share the shapes of molars, upper and lower, vertically facing off each other. Next time I see Rosen I will ask if he's using x-rays as formal source material for his paintings, and might they be those of any of us poets, particularly Rakowski. I guess that's a modernist critical question - sources of 'oral geography', 'physiographic reference', all of which may contribute to know why Rakowski has such staying power! Or maybe that question should be left to the gods! Modernist or not - I like to read him in small doses - Stanley Kunitz is still operative and certainly in his nineties. Stephen V on 5/1/03 9:56 AM, Kirby Olson at olsonjk@DELHI.EDU wrote: > The Marianne Moore review appears in the Complete Prose of Marianne Moore (NY: > Penguin, 1987) 535-539. She briefly discusses Spicer, Kirby Doyle, Schuyler, > Ferlinghetti, O'Hara, Charles Olson, Ed Dorn, -- usually in a one-line > comment. I found it mostly positive though I imagine one could say she is > damning with faint praise. She has only one sentence on Ashbery, which > appears > on p. 538. "John Ashbery's 'Instruction Manual' also is a pleasure [she has > just praised O'Hara], a documentary with structure and content." > > She says that the new poetry has a hard task to compete with the new > vocabularies of science, which she calls "enthralling," and her main criticism > is that the article "The" should have been taken off the title of Allen's > anthology, and the book called "New American Poetry," because it leaves out > such interesting new poets [to her] as Daniel Hoffman, Robert Bagg, and George > Starbuck. > > At any rate, Marianne Moore wouldn't be able to complain much about > obscurantism. She's as tough to read as any. Even in this she appears to be > saying something in her last paragraphs about the squalor of writing about > drug > addiction and what actually calls "civic parasites" seems to be an indictment, > but this seems to be a general comment, and she's too politic to attack anyone > directly. But I've always appreciated her high praise of Corso (even though > he > was both a drug addict and what I suppose could be called a civic parasite, > whatever she meant by that). She cites a quatrain, and says he has > "vehemence," among other nice things. She especially seems to enjoy Charles > Olson, though she tries to link his poetics to older formulations propounded > by > her great friend Kenneth Burke -- who lived to be 95 or something. > > Btw. Can anybody think of an important American modernist who attained the age > of a 100 or more? There's Ernst Junger in Germany. Soupault got to be 92 > among the French surrealists. Pierre Klossowski was 95. Moore was I think > only 85 or so. Painters seem to last longer than writers. Balthus was in his > nineties, as was Picasso. But very few seem to last past 100. Bob Hope and > Irving Berlin, yes, but what about American poets? Who got to be oldest? > > -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:43:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: help with Ashbery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bob Hass says Kunitz is 100, born in 1903. So he's just a teensy bit older than Rakosi. We had a conversation on the street in Berkeley yesterday about this very thing. Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:48:38 -0400 Reply-To: kevinkillian@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kevinkillian@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: help with Ashbery MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Not an American, but the UK modernist Edward Upward is also still alive at= age 100 and writing away=2E A month or so ago the Guardian had an intervi= ew with him =2E =2E =2E http://books=2Eguardian=2Eco=2Euk/departments/generalfiction/story/0,6000,= 925395,0 0=2Ehtml Original Message: ----------------- From: Kirby Olson olsonjk@DELHI=2EEDU Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:56:21 -0400 To: POETICS@LISTSERV=2EBUFFALO=2EEDU Subject: Re: help with Ashbery The Marianne Moore review appears in the Complete Prose of Marianne Moore (NY: Penguin, 1987) 535-539=2E She briefly discusses Spicer, Kirby Doyle, Schuyler, Ferlinghetti, O'Hara, Charles Olson, Ed Dorn, -- usually in a one-line comment=2E I found it mostly positive though I imagine one could say she = is damning with faint praise=2E She has only one sentence on Ashbery, which appears on p=2E 538=2E "John Ashbery's 'Instruction Manual' also is a pleasure [s= he has just praised O'Hara], a documentary with structure and content=2E" She says that the new poetry has a hard task to compete with the new vocabularies of science, which she calls "enthralling," and her main criticism is that the article "The" should have been taken off the title of Allen's anthology, and the book called "New American Poetry," because it leaves ou= t such interesting new poets [to her] as Daniel Hoffman, Robert Bagg, and George Starbuck=2E At any rate, Marianne Moore wouldn't be able to complain much about obscurantism=2E She's as tough to read as any=2E Even in this she appear= s to be saying something in her last paragraphs about the squalor of writing about= drug addiction and what actually calls "civic parasites" seems to be an indictment, but this seems to be a general comment, and she's too politic to attack anyone directly=2E But I've always appreciated her high praise of Corso (even though he was both a drug addict and what I suppose could be called a civic parasite= , whatever she meant by that)=2E She cites a quatrain, and says he has "vehemence," among other nice things=2E She especially seems to enjoy Cha= rles Olson, though she tries to link his poetics to older formulations propounded by her great friend Kenneth Burke -- who lived to be 95 or something=2E Btw=2E Can anybody think of an important American modernist who attained t= he age of a 100 or more? There's Ernst Junger in Germany=2E Soupault got to be = 92 among the French surrealists=2E Pierre Klossowski was 95=2E Moore was I = think only 85 or so=2E Painters seem to last longer than writers=2E Balthus wa= s in his nineties, as was Picasso=2E But very few seem to last past 100=2E Bob Ho= pe and Irving Berlin, yes, but what about American poets? Who got to be oldest? -- Kirby -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 10:49:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: help with Ashbery In-Reply-To: <185.1a4f5136.2be2b6db@cs.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kunitz was born in 1905. I can't imagine what it is like to outlive and outlive and outlive. Once I was looking at an anthology which was listed chronologically and noticing how near the beginning (an anothology of contemporary poetry) Kunitz was; how many who were born after him--decades after sometimes--and who are gone. It also affect the sense of "contemporary": James Wright, Hans Hofmann, Anais Nin, Mark Rothko were all younger than or contemporary with Kunitz yet each seems so much a part of the past-- --- Gloria Frym wrote: > Bob Hass says Kunitz is 100, born in 1903. So he's > just a teensy bit older > than Rakosi. We had a conversation on the street > in Berkeley yesterday > about this very thing. > > > Gloria Frym ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:15:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Al Filreis Subject: Writers House--new director Comments: To: poets@dept.english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE KELLY WRITERS HOUSE HAS A NEW DIRECTOR ------------------------------------------ It gives me great pleasure to announce that as of July 1, 2003, the Director of the Kelly Writers House will be Dr. JENNIFER SNEAD. Jennifer succeeds Dr. Kerry Sherin Wright in the directorship; Kerry joined the Writers House staff in 1997, and as of July 1, 2003, will continue as a member of the Writers House community, serving as Senior Advisor at the Writers House, Lecturer in Critical and Creative Writing, and Associate Fellow at the new Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing. Jennifer Snead is a poet, scholar, and teacher. She has a Ph.D. in English from Duke University, where she taught writing and literature and trained teachers of writing. She has been a lecturer on the faculty of English here at Penn since 2000, teaching courses in poetry and poetics, the novel, and creative writing. Her areas of interest as a writer and scholar include 18th-century print culture, history and contemporary culture of the book, science fiction and fantasy writing, and poetry and poetics. She is just completing a term as a Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow at the Penn Humanities Forum. At Penn she has also been the Assistant Program Coordinator at the Kelly Writers House, and a Research Associate for the School of Arts & Sciences Office of External Affairs. Jennifer is also an alumna of Penn's College of Arts & Sciences. When she took her BA in 1994 in English with a concentration in Creative Writing, she received the Haney Prize for the years' finest Senior Honors Thesis, and was twice awarded the College Alumni Society Prize for Penn's best undergraduate poet. (One year Jennifer took second in this contest; the winner was Shawn Lynn Walker, who then became a founder and the first Resident Coordinator of the Writers House.) Closely affiliated with the House since returning to Philadelphia in 2000 as a member of the Writers House volunteer collaborative planning committee (or "hub"), Jennifer has conceived and organized a variety of projects and programs, including "Fringing the Page," a one-day conference on Philadelphia poetry to coincide with the Philly Fringe Festival, and a recent Documentary Workshop featuring film-maker Greg Matkosky. She has also read her poems on "Live at the Writers House," the one-hour radio program broadcast in collaboration with WXPN. When offered the Writers House directorship by a 10-person hiring committee of Writers House-affiliated students, faculty, Penn staff, and alumni, Jennifer said: "I'm thrilled and awed to have the opportunity to lead this extrordinary writing community. I found a home at the Writers House when I returned to Penn, and I can't wait to be able to take good care of it as it has taken such good care of me." Found in 1995-96 by a group of intrepid writers and teachers of writing, the Kelly Writers House is a fourteen-room Victorian cottage on Penn's campus that is run collaboratively by its members - a stand-alone project, unaffiliated with departments or with the for-credit curriculum, although regularly inhabited by eminent faculty in the arts and humanities and frequented by established writers who serve as teachers and mentors. It is a learning community for creative students; a reading and performance space for local artists; an intimate, informal salon for young writers seeking a place to gather; and a site for experimentation in the several arts related to writing. Al Filreis Kelly Professor of English Faculty Director, the Kelly Writers House Director, the Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:27:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Magee's _MS_ now available! Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, WRITING@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU, hub@dept.english.upenn.edu, grads@dept.english.upenn.edu, faculty@dept.english.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, big apologies for cross-posting but I wanted to get the word out that my new book of poems _MS_ (Spuyten Duyvil) is now available at www.barnesandnoble.com or through your local bookstore (it's up at amazon.com too but they don't seem ready to ship yet). It's 92 pages and positively divine! And inexpensive! And, and... If you want to buy it as fast as humanly possible, go here: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=2UP4P4CPR8&i sbn=1881471209&itm=1 Below are the words from the back cover. Hope you like! -m. ****************************** Stuttering turns into syncopation in this edgily engaging collocation of accents, attitudes, occasions. The poems in MS are provocative, certainly without idealization, the dollars-and-cents context of our grainy American dream. Mike Magee's detailed optical-ocular orbiting effects –– "other-wise / waning or adroitly loitering" –– make reading this collection a constant surprise. ––Susan Howe Does the poet diagnose a medical condition or continue a feminist tradition? Is it a motor ship or a manuscript? A degree of science or a software appliance? Recklessly eyeballing Mike Magee's "grainy American dream," my optic nerves jangle to the tune of jump-cut language, slurred and blurred words flashed on the screen of memory with a quick trigger finger on the universal remote. Magee's MS interrupts our programming with his alternative vision. ––Harryette Mullen The discursively promiscuous clauses of these poems—cut generously with a slide-wit on the national symbols blared, dice up much of the lingering prosaic transparency of American Poetry (Inc.). Here’s no monologic gnosis gnashing of "repressed subject" possibilities, while at the same time no fashionable duncing of the socially determinative either. This rhetor’s got the apps (and multiplexed ‘mouth’) to get you to the next level—Your Turn. --Rodrigo Toscano Michael Magee's MS is new music . . . a carnivalesque palimpsest of vision and ventriloquy, supple rhythm informed by Hiphop era ironies and an erudite grasp of postmodern poetics. This marvelous Century 21 ethnic American remix of personal history and society's mystery is both demanding and delightful. You need this book! Mr. Magee creates poems that tickle the ear and open a new window in the mind's eye. Read aloud. Think fast. --Lorenzo Thomas ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 11:30:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG online silent auction: 4 gift certificates from Zia Records Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit here's installment 1 of POG's rolling, online silent auction. Zia Records has donated 4 gift certificates, each worth $15. They will go to the four highest bidders. Bidding closes at 5pm next Thursday, May 8. To bid please email us backchannel at mailto:pog@gopog.org (please do NOT hit REPLY in order to bid--that will publish your bid to several other people) I won't divulge the bids to anyone else and will not, of course, bid myself. please help POG and encourage further silent auction partners by bidding for one or more of these $15 gift certificates! thanks, Tenney Nathanson for POG mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:43:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the shoulds of brilliant writing and exemplar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the shoulds of brilliant writing the writing should have intensity as if one's life is at stake the writing should be close to unbearable the writing should be driven with a force sweeping all away before it the writing should drive with the same force the writing should be a fury the writing should be the travails of writing's political economy the language of the writing should be the political economy of language the writing should be the last gasp before the darkness the writing should open the portal for the reader after the darkness the writing should open after the death of the writer the portal should open after the death of the reader the writing should be the unlocking key the writing should be the locking and unlocking portal the writing should be the imprimatur and imperative the writing should be of absolute necessity and necessity's violence the writing should follow the paths of desire and desire's sexuality the writing should be self-inscribed in the eternity of hardened stone the writing should be its eternal generation the writing should be a positivity accepting everything the writing should be that freedom which tends towards itself the writing should be a cry or murmur or scream or ululation the writing should be the exposure of every intimacy and secret the writing should be a shout or moan and in all ways incandescent the writing should be both absolute and a gnawing at the foundations the writing should be furious with the reader the writing should demand the full attention and absorption of the reader the writing should be unique and wondrous the writing should be degree zero and degree one and degree infinite the style should amaze the reader as if the language were born anew the writing should be the birth and death of writing the writing should be understood by everyone and no one at all the writing should appear as first and last writing the writing should appear as the first words spoken and the last exhaled the writing should be of dire consequence and resonance the writing should be its own exemplar beyond any reasonable critique the brilliance of the writing should outshine its translation the writing and its brilliance should survive any catastrophe ___ example of brilliant writing the shoulds of brilliant the writing shoulds should if have one's intensity life as is if at one's stake life the is writing at should stake have be should close be to close unbearable to driven all with away a before force it sweeping the all writing away should before be it driven drive drive same same fury be travails writing's writing's economy political the economy writing language should last before gasp the darkness writing open the portal after for the reader the after writing death the writer writing unlocking the key unlocking locking and and unlocking imprimatur imprimatur imperative imperative absolute and necessity necessity's necessity's the violence writing follow of paths and desire sexuality desire's writing sexuality should self-inscribed eternity in of eternity stone hardened writing stone should its be eternal its generation eternal positivity positivity accepting accepting everything everything that which freedom tends which towards tends itself towards the itself writing cry scream or or murmur ululation scream writing ululation be exposure intimacy every secret intimacy the secret should shout all moan incandescent ways be incandescent a both gnawing gnawing the foundations be furious furious demand and full of attention the absorption the unique be wondrous and degree one zero and one the infinite be style as amaze the were should born amaze anew the birth death understood no by one everyone at no the appear as first and words exhaled spoken the exhaled as dire consequence consequence and resonance the own any exemplar reasonable beyond the any writing reasonable should critique be brilliance of outshine its translation the survive any catastrophe the ___ ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:11:40 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: help with Ashbery Comments: To: mecr@sbcglobal.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It occurred to me that perhaps the original article is more biting than the reprint in the Collected Prose? It does appear that the last two paragraphs in the Complete Prose are truncated or something. It would be interesting if someone used Maria's bibliogrpahical note to look it up and compare the two. Maybe she said more on Ashbery or others in three. She does have this curious dangling sentence about sex addicts and civic parasites at the end, but it's not clear at all from the context which of the poets she's censoring, but she does appear to be -- although three fourths of the review in the Complete Prose is positive, and only the ending has a kind of veiled critique in it. -- Kirby mecr wrote: > In this vein, there is a review (supposedly scathing) by Marianne Moore of > _THE NEW AMERICAN POETRY_ which I have never looked up myself. NY Herald > Tribune Book Review, 26 June 1960. I think it is also supposed to be > reprinted in her collected prose. > > Maria Elena > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Kirby Olson > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 10:47 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: help with Ashbery > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:23:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Reading, tonight, New College San Francisco In-Reply-To: <3EB1716C.C3BAC30E@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit New College Emerging Artists Series Thursday, May 1st, 7.30pm -- free New College Cultural Center, 766 Valencia (between 18th & 19th Sts., San Francisco) http://www.newcollegenews.net/index.html Duncan McNaughton has published several books, including Valparaiso, Kicking the Feather, and a translation of Italian poet Dario Villa's works entitled Venus Ill-treated by the Odd Ones. In addition, his long poem "The Quarry" was chosen by Robert Creeley for Best American Poetry 2002. David Hadbawnik is a poet and performer who has published work in Skanky Possum, -Vert, Cauldron & Net, Electronic Poetry Review, Jacket, and Boog City, among others. He has collaborated with several movement, performance, and music-based artists, and also publishes Habenicht Press. Noam Birnbaum is a student of poetics at New College. Also performing is the East Bay new music ensemble Married Couple. Married Couple (Rob Ewing, trombone; Lisa Mezzacappa, double bass; Jason Levis, drums) performs a hybridized blend of avant-jazz, soul, pop, and classic New Orleans rag, swinging effortlessly through interpretations of everything from Bjork to Shostakovitch to Coltrane, with original compositions that draw from every musical genre. The band celebrates the release of their new album Looks Like a Pie to Me; for more information, visit http://www.marriedcoupletheband.com. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:25:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: Smashing Girls and Boys MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Girls are what they wear, and boys are who they hit." Shit not worth one dead hair. This prescribed bloodstained valance, It's a bullshit visaged balance, panache-ridden parlance, barren farm passed as palace and panacea. See here, is this a cobblestone on a long road to hell? or is it the doppleganger's tryst: dissimilarity or peaceful parity: this is a cock here in my panties. I'm dropping it in a deep deep well. As it falls, such grimace of hilarity: "Girls are what they wear, and boys are who they hit." Smashing girls and boys. I don't much like it. ===== NEW!! Alan Sondheim by Lewis LaCook: http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:37:41 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: Honouring Press Gang Authors May 24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit You are warmly invited to: Honouring Press Gang Authors: a benefit for authors in response to Press Gang Publisher's bankruptcy Saturday, May 24, 2003 doors open, silent auction begins 6 pm readings start 7 pm Western Front 303 East 8th Avenue, Vancouver, BC Canada suggested donation $10 participating writers: Sheila Baxter, Marusya Bociurkiw, Chrystos, Ivan Coyote, Marion Douglas, SKY Lee, Lee Maracle, Daphne Marlatt, Nancy Richler, Cathy Stonehouse, Karen X. Tulchinsky, Betsy Warland, Rita Wong Those unable to attend are welcome to send a cheque payable to: Honouring Press Gang Authors, Box 45052, Ocean Park, RPO, Surrey, BC, V4A 9L1. For info call 604.875.0412 Co-sponsored by the Western Front and with financial assistance from the Canada Council for the Arts through the Writers' Union of Canada. Please tell your friends! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:39:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: Re: help with Ashbery In-Reply-To: <410-22003541174838484@M2W051.mail2web.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "old Upward had only one glory" ? THAT guy? mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group > [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of > kevinkillian@earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 10:49 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: help with Ashbery > > > Not an American, but the UK modernist Edward Upward is also still alive at > age 100 and writing away. A month or so ago the Guardian had an interview > with him . . . > > http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/generalfiction/story/0,600 > 0,925395,0 > 0.html > > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: Kirby Olson olsonjk@DELHI.EDU > Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:56:21 -0400 > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: help with Ashbery > > > The Marianne Moore review appears in the Complete Prose of Marianne Moore > (NY: > Penguin, 1987) 535-539. She briefly discusses Spicer, Kirby Doyle, > Schuyler, > Ferlinghetti, O'Hara, Charles Olson, Ed Dorn, -- usually in a one-line > comment. I found it mostly positive though I imagine one could say she is > damning with faint praise. She has only one sentence on Ashbery, which > appears > on p. 538. "John Ashbery's 'Instruction Manual' also is a > pleasure [she has > just praised O'Hara], a documentary with structure and content." > > She says that the new poetry has a hard task to compete with the new > vocabularies of science, which she calls "enthralling," and her main > criticism > is that the article "The" should have been taken off the title of Allen's > anthology, and the book called "New American Poetry," because it > leaves out > such interesting new poets [to her] as Daniel Hoffman, Robert Bagg, and > George > Starbuck. > > At any rate, Marianne Moore wouldn't be able to complain much about > obscurantism. She's as tough to read as any. Even in this she appears to > be > saying something in her last paragraphs about the squalor of writing about > drug > addiction and what actually calls "civic parasites" seems to be an > indictment, > but this seems to be a general comment, and she's too politic to attack > anyone > directly. But I've always appreciated her high praise of Corso (even > though he > was both a drug addict and what I suppose could be called a civic > parasite, > whatever she meant by that). She cites a quatrain, and says he has > "vehemence," among other nice things. She especially seems to > enjoy Charles > Olson, though she tries to link his poetics to older formulations > propounded by > her great friend Kenneth Burke -- who lived to be 95 or something. > > Btw. Can anybody think of an important American modernist who attained the > age > of a 100 or more? There's Ernst Junger in Germany. Soupault got to be 92 > among the French surrealists. Pierre Klossowski was 95. Moore > was I think > only 85 or so. Painters seem to last longer than writers. Balthus was in > his > nineties, as was Picasso. But very few seem to last past 100. > Bob Hope and > Irving Berlin, yes, but what about American poets? Who got to be oldest? > > -- Kirby > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 15:45:29 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: Re: magazines thanks. i just know the previous one doesnt work no more. ill tell my web girl. rob > >Just noticed in my copy of the latest issue that dANDelion does have a >site. It's www.english.ucalgary.ca/dandelion/ > >Mark > > >On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 03:29 PM, Rob McLennan wrote: > >> if its magazines yr looking for, here are a couple id recommend - >> >> Queen Street Quarterly, Toronto >> the best little magazine in Canada, id say. publishes people >> like >> George Bowering, derek beaulieu, Michael Holmes, Karen MacCormack, >> Steve >> McCaffery, Peter Jaegar, a. rawlings, donato mancini, Stephen >> Brockwell, >> John Barlow, etcetcetcetc >> http://www.qsq.ca/issue.php >> >> filling station magazine, Calgary >> an impressive mag run by the young(er) crew of writers & >> critics & >> poets running around Calgary. has published over its, what, 10 years, a >> near-whos who of Calgary writing, & from other places as well. >> http://www.fillingstation.ca/ >> >> West Coast Line >> Vancouver writing magazine. various theme issues, currenly >> "Writing >> Rupture: Iranian Emigration Writing": Guest Edited by Peyman >> Vahabzadeh. >> the first one on this list to keep the website up to date >> http://www.sfu.ca/west-coast-line/ >> >> other impressive mags include dANDelion (no website) outtta Calgary, >> Open >> Letter out of London ON, Matrix in Montreal, (orange) outta the >> University >> of Calgary, etcetcetcetc. >> >> a good list of those with websites can be found on my links page, >> www.track0.com/rob_mclennan >> >> >> >> -- >> poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian >> poetics >> (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action >> Network - >> Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada >> k0c 1t0 >> www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw >> Press) >> >> > > -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action Network - Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw Press) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:41:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT *** MONDAY MAY 5 [8:00pm] OPEN READING WEDNESDAY MAY 7 [8:00pm] CARLA HARRYMAN AND ANN LAUTERBACH http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** MONDAY MAY 5 [8:00pm] OPEN READING Sign-up begins at 7:45pm. WEDNESDAY MAY 7 [8:00pm] CARLA HARRYMAN AND ANN LAUTERBACH Carla Harryman is the author of eleven books of poetry, prose plays, and essays. Her two experimental novels, Gardener of Stars (2002) and The Words= : After Carl Sandburg=B9s Rootabaga Stories and Jean-Paul Sartre (1999) are "explorations of the paradise and wastelands of utopian desire." Other work= s by Harryman include two volumes of selected writing, There Never Was a Rose without a Thorn (1995) and Animal Instincts: Prose, Plays, Essays (1989). She has worked extensively in performance, and experimental theater, and ha= s collaborated with a number of visual artists and composers. Her most recent play, Performing Objects Stationed in the Sub World, has received workshop productions in Detroit at the Zeitgeist Theater and in Oxford, England at Oxford Brookes University. It will be staged as a full length interdisciplinary site-related performance at the LAB in San Francisco during the month of September, 2003. Her essay, "Residues or Revolutions of the Language of Acker and Artaud," is forthcoming in the SDSU Press anthology, Devouring Institutions, edited by Michael Hardin. Ann Lauterbach's first book, Many Times, But Then, was published in 1979. She has since published Before Recollection (Princeton, 1987), Clamor (1991), And For Example (1994), On A Stair (1997), and If in Time, Selected Poems 1975-2000, published in April 2001, all from Penguin. She has made a number of collaborations with visual artists, including A Clown, Some Colors, A Doll, Her Stories, A Song, A Moonlit Cove with Ellen Phelan (for the Whitney Museum Fellows), and How Things Bear Their Telling, with Lucio Pozzi. She has written on art and poetics in relation to cultural value, most notably in a series of essays for The American Poetry Review entitled The Night Sky. Among her awards are a Guggenheim Fellowship (1986) and a MacArthur Fellowship (1993). She is a contributing editor of Conjunctions and The Denver Quarterly. She is at present the David and Ruth Schwab II Professor of Languages and Literature at Bard College, where she has, since 1991, directed the Writing Division of the Milton Avery Graduate School of the Arts. *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:47:45 -0700 Reply-To: pdunagan@lycos.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: patrick dunagan Organization: Lycos Mail (http://www.mail.lycos.com:80) Subject: Fwd: Fw: Midget Edition Reading, Please Forward Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -- --------- Forwarded Message --------- DATE: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:33:51 From: "cedar sigo" To: "anslemhollo" ,"Ben Prince" ,"Bill Berkson" ,"caldwell" ,"Corina Bilandzija" ,"Diane DiPrima" ,"darin klein" ,"ginger robinson" ,"jake" ,"Kevin Opstedal" ,"julien" ,"Marisol Martinez" ,"mattburgess" ,"matvei yankelevich" ,"David Meltzer" ,"patrick" ,"Marjorie Perloff" ,"ras" ,"Renee Gladman" ,"lydia" ,"Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino" ,"Summi Kaipa" ,"todd" ,"Elizabeth Treadwell Jackson" ,"akilah oliver" ----- Original Message ----- From: noel black Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 5:15 PM To: cedarsigo@msn.com; johnny@sfbg.com; redmd5@hotmail.com; asisowl@earrthlink.net; bl.kbo@rlg.org; devendrabanhart@hotmail.com; jojacksonsname@hotmail.com; lilyboat@earthlink.net; kboyle@mindspring.com; josh@joshp.com Subject: Midget Edition Reading, Please Forward Hey Everyone, Please forward this to everyone you know and I'll see you there or before on Weds. night. MIDGET RELEASE PARTY Angry Dog Midget Editions Reading at Balazo Mission Badlands Gallery 24th and Mission Weds., May 7 at 7:30 p.m. $5 cover includes your choice of 1 book. Books by: Eileen Myles Richard Hell Thurston Moore Cedar Sigo Jeni Olin Devendra Banhart Kevin Opstedal Jules Wilt Johnny Huston Mary DeNardo Noel Black Marina Eckler Darin Klein Al DeSilver Will Yackulic Byron Coley Marc Huebert and many more. And Artists: Will Yackulic Devendra Banhart Marina Eckler Jo Jackson Zoe Anderson Marc Huebert and many more STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com --------- End Forwarded Message --------- ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:57:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: ummm...Condee... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In case it slips from our sites. http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/04/30/1051381997497.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 17:36:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: May Day at Kut and Kienthal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Against Defeat, Laughter May Day at Kut and Kienthal May 1, 2003 By PETER LINEBAUGH http://www.counterpunch.org Inasmuch as the historian's craft depends on written records, then the answer to the question posed in the title of V. Gordon Chile's classic book about the Tigris and Euphrates, What Happened in History? is well answered in the title of another classic book on the same subject by Samuel Kramer, History Begins at Sumer, because that's where writing began. With the American 'liberation' of Iraq and the subsequent destruction of the library of Baghdad and its museum of antiquities, we could say, therefore, that history while not quite coming to an end has become impossible to write. However, there are other sources of knowledge of the past, such as song and story, flora and fauna, with which we'll have to make do, not to mention what we remember. Baghdad scholarship survived the sacking by Genghis Khan and there is no reason to think that it will not persist after the burning of the books by the U.S.A. Still...Following the planetary mobilizations of February15 and March 22, on the one hand, and this barbaric devastation of Iraq on the other, we don't feel exactly like dancing around the Maypole. We need that history which seizes hold of "a memory as it flashes up in a moment of danger." While the storm from paradise blows us into the future, the angel of history turns its face to the past, commemorating, remembering: May Day and the Haymarket hangings: May Day and the 8-hour day struggle: the May Days of soixante-huite: May Day and the struggles against apartheid: May Day and the central American solidarity movement. We do not smile. While the Americans are wrapping the cradle of civilization in its winding sheet, the angel of history stops at May Day 1916 and the terrible siege, surrender, and slaughter at Kut on the Tigris river. Every May Day story has its point, and Rosa Luxemburg expresses mine: "The brilliant basic idea of May Day is the autonomous, immediate stepping forward of the proletarian masses, the political mass action of the millions of workers," she wrote on the eve of the Great War, and wasn't it so just last month, March 22, and the month before, 15 February, when we millions around the planet autonomously stepped forward? And why did we autonomously step forward? Peace in Iraq. Yet, Red Rosa said that "The direct, international mass manifestation: the strike [was] a demonstration and means of struggle for the eight-hour day, world peace, and socialism." Peace, yes; but we left aside the 8-hour day and socialism. Is that why we failed to stop the war? In the spring of 1916 at Verdun two million men were engaged in massive mutual holocaust; there were 676,000 losses. In Mesopotamia, tens and scores of thousands of sepoys of the Indian Expeditionary Force 'D,' on behalf of the British Empire, disembarked at Basra at the beginning of the war, with the strategic objectives: 1) securing the oil supply from Persia, 2) protecting the main corridor to India, and 3) preventing a jihad combining Arab, Afghan, with a rising in India. We could sum it up, as Connolly did, "the capitalist class of Great Britain, the meanest, most unscrupulous governing class in all history, is out for plunder." A fourth objective emerged on the sly. British government in India wished to annex Mesopotamia, but British empire in London preferred to operate from its lair in Cairo than Delhi. The lure of Baghdad proved irresistible to General Townshend, the commander. Foolishly (for the Persian refineries were already secured) he led the re-named Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force up the Tigris River extending his lines of communication far beyond the powers of his base to supply it with food. Repulsed before reaching Baghdad, he was forced to retreat a hundred miles to Kut. There followed a four months siege, a humiliating defeat, and surrender on the eve of May first 1916. Parallel with this narrative of disaster ran two sub-plots, a) the soldiers' resistance, and b) the orientalizing derring-do of Lawrence of Arabia and the charming wiles of Gertrude Bell. Townshend found keeping up morale "the most difficult of all military operations" and one in which the British soldier is "very prone to get out of hand." They arrived and dug in at Kut after two days of forced marches, and then suffered heat, exhaustion, floods, disease, famine. The Indian battalions had practically become "armed bands." The bulk of the troops were Muslim. Seditious pamphlets in Urdu and in Hindustani tempting the troops to rise and murder their officers, join their bothers the Turks, who would pay them better and provide grants of land. One sepoy did attempt to shoot his officer, several deserted, and twelve to fourteen soldiers cut off their trigger fingers. Many were from Punjab. Dysentery claimed fifteen dead a day, and twenty from starvation. Townshend complained about the "trans-border Pathans." He wanted them returned to India. They refused to eat horseflesh, and though he mixed Hindu and Mohammedan on picket duty and outpost work, he could not break their solidarity. Altogether, seventy-two deserted. Moberly, whose three volumes on the Mesopotamian campaign provides the official history, explained: since the Pathans were without private property, the British promise to assure rightful succession to their property in the event of their being killed was without effect! Behind this logic were imperial fears of mutiny and commonism. Against these, terror was the traditional remedy. The Arab inhabitants of Kut would not sell their food. Townshend asked headquarters for gold, and explained, "I could not flog 6,000 people into taking paper money. All I could do was to keep them in good behavior by shooting one now and then pour encourager les autres when spies, etc., were caught." Gertrude Bell was the first woman to win a First in Modern History at Oxford. Her grandfather was a rich British industrialist, supplying one third of British iron. She danced, she rode horse, she spoke Arabic, quoted Milton, archaeologically discovered cities, charmed imperious egos. She became the silken agent of English guile. Gertrude Bell wrote from Military Intelligence's Arab Bureau, next to the Cairo Savoy, "It's great fun." In Cairo Lawrence intrigued to encourage the Arab revolt against the Ottoman Empire. Gertrude Bell was dispatched to India. The disaster at Kut put a decided damper on its ambitions. "I hate war; oh, and I'm so weary of it--of war, of life," as she sighed from Basra, in March 1916 during the frightful heat. That was the month that the British government began to pay Sharif Hussein £125,000 gold sovereigns a month, a deal she helped set up. Gertrude dallied with Lawrence, "We have had great talks and made vast schemes for the government of the universe. He goes up river tomorrow, where the battle is raging these days." A month after the surrender, indeed, the Arab revolt began. Lawrence was able to write a scathing report on the Indian army's operations in Mesopotamia. The English political officer, "Cox is entirely ignorant of Arab societies," plotted Lawrence. An obstacle to the Arab revolt--Indian ambitions for the cradle of civilization--had been discredited. "The most important thing of all will be cash," quoth his instructions. In April Lawrence was authorized to offer the Turks £1,000,000 to quit the siege of Kut, though he doubled it, Khalil Pasha rejected it scornfully. In March Lawrence read Coleridge, The Rime of the Ancient Mariner, several parallels may be made--the thirst ("Water, water, everywhere/Nor any drop to drink"), the sun, the heat, the loneliness, the guilt of the mariner for his responsibility in the wanton murder of the crew. What sights had Lawrence seen in Kut? Who were the starving and wasting men? The English were from Dorsetshire and Norfolk, depressed agricultural counties, hardy specimens of the English proletariat whose experience was depression. There were Punjabis, Pathans. The Inland Water Transport Service employed in its Mesopotamian contingents men from the British West Indies Regiment, the Nigerian Marine Regiment, the West African Regiment, the Coloured Section, the Egyptian Labour Corps. Lawrence saw starve the motley international of an imperialist army. The many men, so beautiful! And they all dead did lie: And a thousand thousand slimy things Lived on; and so did I. Lawrence, clearly, would have his limitations as an imperial servant: though it was oil they craved, in his master's view empire was not slime! February 1916 finds Gandhi speaking in Karachi. Having returned to India the year before he vowed to be silent for a year, and only recently had he begun to speak out. Truth and fearlessness were his themes, as only they could remove the demoralizing atmosphere of sycophancy and falsity. However, these salutary results required not--spitting. Self-restraint was the necessary condition to national liberation, he taught, "when we conquer our so-called conquerors." Earlier that month, however, despite not--spitting, he created a furious row with a speech at Benares Hindu University. "It is necessary that our hearts have got to be touched and that our hands and feet have got to be moved"--the doctrine of satyagraha was activist or nothing. "In her impatience India has produced an army of anarchists," he continued. "I myself am an anarchist but of another type." He contrasted himself to the anarchist terrorists responsible for the bombing campaign which before the war had annulled the British partition of Bengal. "I honor the anarchist for his love of country. I honor him for his bravery in being willing to die for his country; but I ask him: Is killing honorable?" Just as the argument in front of the students was promising to get interesting, Miss Annie Besant, the English liberal, interrupted, "Please stop it." Later she explained she had noticed the CID taking notes, "I meant to do him a kindness and prevent the more violent interruption which would probably have taken place, had I remained silent." More slime. Gandhi may have overlapped with Gertrude Bell in Karachi, but where Gandhi derived nourishment from the people, she pitied them: "Swollen with wind and the rank mists we draw" is the phrase she remembers in April from Milton's Lycidias. It is from a passage about corruption between leaders and led which begins with what? the slime of Wolf Blitzer from the desert? a Pentagon briefing? Ari Fleisher? What recks it them? What need they? They are sped; And when they list, their lean and flashy songs Grate on their scrannel pipes of wretched straw; The hungry sheep look up, and are not fed, But swoln with wind, and the rank mist they draw, Rot inwardly, and foul contagion spread; Besides what the grim wolf with privy paw Daily devours apace, and nothing said. Not a glimmer of proletarian creativity could allay the view of people as sheep. Milton at any rate went in dialogue with the Levellers and Diggers of his day, while Gertrude Bell used Milton as an another code of ruling class mutual recognition. She did not draw the parallel to the experience which the surgeon at Kut remembered, namely, that the cats became bolder as food became scarcer and they began "with privy paw" to lurk about the windows and doorways of the surgery. Major Barber, the English saw-bones, was not pleased by his first impression of Kut, "Approaching from the east, almost the first thing that caught the eye was a gibbet." He spent days with stretcher-bearers, bhisties, and women water drawers. The soldiers called the place "Messypot," he tells us. Night-time shelling they called "the hate." He cursed war and the economic necessities that bring it about. Famine advanced. Then came the slaughter of the beasts--a thousand horses, mules, camels, all except the officers' chargers, and Townshend's dog whose daily walk counted among Barber's duties. He composed a menu, reflecting the class of the rank and file. Potage aux Os de Cheval Sauterelles Sautés Starlings en Canapé Filet de mule Entrecote de Chameau For Major Barber May Day 1916 was the arrival of the hospital ship with jam, swag, and bubbly. In 29 April after a siege of four and a half months General Townshend lowered the Union Jack and burned it. 23,000 soldiers had been killed in four futile attempts to relieve the siege; then on the eve of May Day 13,000 were taken prisoner. "It was one of the great mistakes in British military history," writes Barker, The Neglected War: Mesopotamia, 1914-1918. The prisoners? Captain Shakeshaft observed them ragged, barefooted, dying of dysentery. "One saw British soldiers dying with a green ooze issuing from their lips, their mouths fixed open, in and out of which flies walked." Many were contracted to railway construction for a German company working in Turkey. Altogether the British empire lost 40,000 casualties, concludes Moberley. If in America the capacity to inflict terror in Iraq while simultaneously denying it is called Liberation, in England it goes by The Stiff Upper Lip. Gertrude Bell and General Townshend didn't let the side down. Despite having had her black silk gown rifled by pilfering hands at the Delhi P.O., she cheerfully wrote referring to the mulberries and blossoming pomegranates, "Even Basra has a burst of glory in April." As for General Townshend, he concluded the Terms of Surrender with this: "Finally, I asked Khalil Pacha to send my faithful fox-terrier "Spot" down to the British force to my friend Sir Wilfred Peek, so that he might reach home. He was with me in the Battles of Kurna, he was at Ctespiphon and in the retreat, and he killed many cats during the defense of Kut. He reached England safely, and I met him on my return to my home in Norfolk." Gertrude Bell would become known as "the uncrowned queen of Iraq," after the British took Baghdad in February 1917. She wrote in words that could come Ms. Robin Raphel, slated to run the Iraq trade ministry, or Ms. Barbara Bodine, awaiting her assignment in Wolfie of Arabia's Iraq, "we shall, I trust, make it a great centre of Arab civilization, a prosperity; that will be my job partly, I hope, and I never lose sight of it." James Connolly explained on St Patrick's Day 1916 "The essential meanness of the British Empire is that it robs under the pretence of being generous, and it enslaves under pretence of liberating." Hence, the flash song of liberation grates on the scrannel pipes of wretched straw which we know are there not to sing songs but to suck up you-know-what. In "Mesopotamia--1917" Rudyard Kipling wet his whistle, cleared his throat of anything that might grate, and definitely raised his voice to express grief and a very healthy specific --class hatred: They shall not return to us, the resolute, the young, The eager and whole-hearted whom we gave: But the men who left them thriftily to die in their own dung, Shall they come with years and honour to the grave? Shall we only threaten and be angry for an hour? When the storm is ended shall we find How softly but how swiftly they have sidled back to power By their favor and contrivance of their kind? Mercifully, Kipling leaves God out of it. Plus, he demands justice, not oil, to compensate for the sacrifice of the young. Kipling told one half of the story. The other half remains to be told. Is it too late for the Subaltern Studies historians to recover the oral tradition of the POWs who fled, deserted, and escaped from Kut? Some people were ready to answer Kipling's two questions. They met in Switzerland, a center of internationalism (financial, artistic, and revolutionary) but unconnected by Internet or al-Jazeera or Robert Fisk, with the disasters between the Tigris and Euphrates. Their remedy for war and famine which only anti-capitalist revolutionaries can provide was offered up from the Alpine village of Kienthal. Two such different ecologies, different elevations, different temperatures, different flora and fauna, at Kut and Kienthal would be hard to imagine, and yet as human communities both in 1916 retained links with a non-industrial commons--the booleying of the high pastures in the latter, the marsh Arabs on their reeds and islands in the former. The previous September anti-imperialist socialists had secretly and bravely met at Zimmerwald. The work of such intrepid souls as Lenin and Rosa Luxemburg resulted in the Kienthal Manifesto of May Day 1916. The manifesto was preceded by debate and discussion. Rosa Luxemburg published her "Junius" pamphlet in the spring of 1916, as if with Bechtel Corportion and Baghdad in mind. "Business is flourishing upon the ruins. Cities are turned to rubble, whole countries into deserts, villages into cemeteries, whole populations into beggars .. thus stands bourgeois society as a roaring beast, as an orgy of anarchy, as a pestilential breath, devastating culture and humanity." As for the proletariat, "no pre-established schemas, no ritual that holds good at all times shows it the path that it must travel. Historical experience is its only teacher; its Via Dolorosa to self-liberation is covered not only with immeasurable suffering, but with countless mistakes." None were bitterer than she over the betrayal of July 1914 when the so-called representatives of the European international proletariat voted with their national belligerents, sending millions of fellow workers to slaughter one another. She noted that socialism is "the first popular movement in world history that has set as its goal, and is ordained by history, to establish a conscious sense in the social life of man, a definite plan, and thus, free will." But it does not fall like manna from heaven. She posed a choice: "either the triumph of imperialism and the destruction of all culture and, as in ancient Rome, depopulation, desolation, degeneration, a vast cemetery. Or, the victory of socialism, that is, the conscious struggle of the international proletariat against imperialism and its method: war." Amid the slaughter of Verdun and the starvation of Kut, she returned to an axiom of history: human beings make it, the conscious historical action by conscious historical will. They did not pretend that peace was patriotic, nor that they could win without struggle. Lenin gave a speech in Switzerland in February 1916. He quoted The Appeal to Reason of 11 September 1915. Eugene Debs said, "I am not a capitalist soldier; I am a proletarian revolutionist. I do not belong to the regular army of the plutocracy, but to the irregular army of the people. I refuse to obey any command to fight from the ruling class I am opposed to every war but one; I am for that war with heart and soul, and this is the world-wide war of the social revolution. In that war I am prepared to fight in any way the ruling class may make necessary." Gloden Dallas & Douglas Gill, The Unknown Army: Mutinies in the British Army in World War I (Verso 1985) write that a year later, also on 11 September, the English recruits in France mutinously demonstrated. In Mesopotamia the soldiers organized themselves to return home, when ordered up country against the local population. One of the veterans remembered, "We refused saying that we had not enlisted for this purpose & as there was always trouble there, we should have had difficulty in getting back. We stood our ground & gained the day" Lenin welcomed "The Junius Pamphlet," although he argued the necessity of wars of national liberation. In Zürich during the spring of 1916 Lenin wrote Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism which would be used in the anti-colonial struggles of the 20th century--China, India, Kenya, Algeria, Vietnam. He studied the growth of monopolies and cartels; he studied finance capital: "It spreads its net over all countries of the world." He observed its dynamics: 1) "the more capitalism is developed the more desperate the struggle for raw materials," or 2) "imperialism is, in general, a striving towards violence and reaction." He explained how the proletariat drew rank mist and became swollen with wind. Super-profits from plundering colonies enabled the metropolitan working classes to become opportunist and susceptible to nationalist appeals, permitting the betrayal of the trade unions and socialist parties. "It has grown ripe, overripe, and rotten," Lenin wrote. He noted its two fundamental weaknesses, a) it bribed its lower class into acquiescence, and b) its armies were recruited from subject peoples. Lenin lived around the corner from the Caberet Voltaire where the artists and musicians in the spring of 1916 thought up the name Dada for an art to cure the madness of the age. Ed Sanders in volume one of his beautiful America: A History in Verse (Black Sparrow, 2000), described an evening there, --a holy, mind-freeing rinse of nonsense to laugh away the stench of the trench a Rinse heard as far away as San Francisco If theirs was the rinse, Lenin gave the scrubbing. Lenin quoted Cecil Rhodes, "if you want to avoid civil war, you must become imperialists." This precisely was the pivot point: how to turn imperialist war into civil war. Here was the transition from defense to offense. Rosa Luxemburg too argued against the siege mentality in favor of armed, free people on'amove. You study Lenin and Luxemburg in that year and you do not find sectarian bitterness or the irreconcilable differences of gender antagonism. Among the many things Luxemburg and Lenin agreed on that year was denunciation of the Social Democrats for refusing to intercede on behalf of a comrade in the Cameroons who faced a death sentence for organizing an uprising against the war. These are comrades denouncing war, condemning betrayal of the official opposition, analyzing imperialism, praising the creativity of the working-class, and they search the world to find it. From these discussions came the Kienthal May Day Manifesto of 1916. If Kut describes a progenitor of our problem, then Kinethal describes a solution. It's words apply to us. Addressed to workers of town and country, "You have only the right to starve and to keep silent. You face the chains of the state of siege, the fetters of censorship, and the stale air of the dungeon. They try to incite you to betray your class duty and tear out of your heart your greatest strength, your hope of socialism." "The governments, the imperialist cliques, and their press tell you that it is necessary to hold out in order to free the oppressed nations. Of all the methods of deception that have been used in this war, this is the crudest. For some, the real aim of this universal slaughter is to maintain what they have seized over the centuries and conquered in many wars. Others want to divide up the world over again, in order to increase their possessions. They want to annex new territories, tear whole peoples apart and degrade them to the status of common serfs and slaves." "Courage! Remember that you are the majority and that if you so desire the power can be yours." By May 1916 Dubois and James Connolly had found the desire and the courage. It consisted of a) defense against terrorism and b) offense against imperialism. DuBois had recently written that "Africa is the prime cause of this terrible overturning of civilization," World War. He wrote "the white working man has been asked to share the spoil of exploiting 'chinks and niggers.'" Having invaded Haiti, Santo Domingo, Mexico, and Nicaragua, the U.S.A. grew rank with terror and racism. Marcus Garvey of Jamaica arrived in New York in the spring of 1916, asking DuBois to chair his meeting. Dubois called for a revolution, "democracy in determining income is the next inevitable step to democracy in political power." When the Easter rebels were called fools, DuBois appealed to the heavens, "would to God some of us had sense enough to be fools!" May Day at DuBois' The Crisis was entirely occupied in the struggle against lynching. It inveighed against the terrorism in the U.S.A. The April issue was against the lynching of six men in Georgia, while the next issue, on "The Waco Horror," reproduced the most searing photographs of the century, the charred stumps of mutilated, burned, and hanged Texas proletarians. James Connolly reiterated, A Rich Man's War and a Poor Man's Fight! He discovered the war profiteers. He analyzed the economic incentives for joining up (unemployment + cash for women who sent their husbands to war). He berated the union bureaucrats and praised the Dublin dockers and London seamen. He recalled British robbery of Irish common lands, and in that stroke of genius which operates by observing the obvious he noted that "the spirit of adventure" must be counted a revolutionary force. He doubted that the political leprosy of militarism could be excised without the red tide of war. Opportunities are for those who seize them, and so, on to Easter. The rule of insurrection is audacity, audacity, audacity! So, despite the capture on Sunday of Roger Casement and the loss of the arms he was shipping from Germany, the Easter Rising commenced anyway on Monday, 24 April 1916, asserting the right of the men and women of Ireland to its ownership, in the oft-reprinted proclamation. Though crushed in less than a week, its reverberations thrilled the oppressed from Jamaica to Bengal. In Dublin Connie Markievicz was second-in-command at Stephen's Green. The Easter rising seized buildings about the town which communicated with one another by means of bicyclists. To her disappointment she was spared execution owing to her gender, and instead awakened on May Day in her cell at Kilmainham Gaol to the sound of rifle reports as her comrades were executed by firing squad. They removed her to prison in England where she amused the bread-and-water gang by extensively reciting from The Inferno, as well as her own words: Dead hearts, dead dreams, dead days of ecstasy, Can you not live again? Nay, for we never died Joe Hill, the song writer, was shot on 19 November 1915. James Larkin came over from Dublin for the funeral where they sang his popular, "The Rebel Girl," There are women of many descriptions In this queer world, as every one knows, Some are living in beautiful mansions, And are wearing the finest of clothes. These are blue-blooded queens and princesses Who have charms made of diamonds and pearls: But the only and Thoroughbred Lady Is the Rebel Girl. The proletarian revolution is not the restoration of matriarchy, though it definitely entails the defeat of patriarchy and Hausfrauiszierung (to use the phrase of Maria Miess). And we can easily understand, given the leadership of the women of the planet on the great days of February 15 and March 22, that the term 'proletarian,' etymologically speaking, meant the women or breeders of empire, but now taking steps to realize our planetary power as a class. We have looked back with the angel of history--at the low siege, surrender, and slaughter at Kut, and at the high Alpine manifesto of proletarian internationalism of Kienthal, and still the wind blows us into the future, which the ruins of the libraries of Baghdad and the bleeding of funds for the municipal libraries in the USA, have not yet destroyed, for we take the treasures with us. The coincidences of May Day (Kut and Kienthal) like the coincidences of September 11 (mutiny and terror) are not magic, though they need to be discovered; they arise merely from probabilities. May Day is one day in 365. 11 September is another rotation of the planet. As the earth rotates prior to our revolution, these are the constants: imperialism and the struggle against it, capitalism and the struggle against it, capital punishment and the struggle against it. Meanwhile, against the slime, Gandhi said clean up your act. Against the flash song, Lenin offered economic analysis. Against terror, DuBois offered unflinching truth. Against the swollen wind and rank mist of patriotism, Red Rosa offered the International. Against all the odds, James Connolly offered audacity. Against defeat, Joe Hill offered laughter. We learn from Franklin Rosemont's magnificent Joe Hill: The IWW & the Making of a Revolutionary Workingclass Counterculture (Charles Kerr, 2003) that the cremated ashes of Joe Hill were put in envelopes and sent to every IWW local in every country of the world --Latin America, Asia, Africa, Europe --and were released to the breezes on May Day 1916. For the followers of the sky-gods, Jahweh and Allah, we laugh with Joe Hill, You will eat, bye and bye, In that glorious land above the sky; Work and pray, live on hay, You'll get pie in the sky when you die. As for the dirt-gods, Mammon and Moloch, not having mopped them up, we have not yet earned our laugh. Peter Linebaugh teaches history at Bard College. He is the author of the London Hanged and The Many-headed Hydra. He can be reached at: linebaugh@counterpunch.org. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 21:34:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ontological Subject: Seven Minutes Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable My Friends, the time is upon us. Eight pieces. Seven minutes each. Lets Rock. The Ontological Theatre welcomes spring with it=B9s annual Theatrical Pu-Pu Platter, The Seven Minute Series. We have selected eight young artists representing the best and brightest that the downtown theatre scene has to offer. WE PROMISE: Each piece offers exciting, heart-pounding, jaw-breakin= g theater in SEVEN MINUTES OR LESS, or your money back.. Join us for an evening of original works by emerging authors, directors and performers. Featuring: Ghost Recon by Ryan Bronz What does it mean to be a professional? Ghost Recon examines the life of a union stagehand who aspires to compete on the professional video game player=B9s circuit . . .if there is such a thing. 31 Down by Ryan Holsopple 31 Down is a Noise Noir Radio Theatre Serial that chronicles the continuing downfall of Mike Sharpie, the crossword-solving detective. Come see the latest installment, "The Trumpet Player Needs More Sax Appeal." Bob or A Man, A Plan, A Play, A Palindrome! by Jake Hooker Bob, a man on a mission, travels thru time=8A sees glorious things. Alpha or Omega or Alpha? Things glorious! Sees Time thru travels. Mission A: On Man=8A a Bob! =20 Burden by Sara Juli Using a dense and quirky sound score, movement, audience interaction, and original text, Burden is a solo performance piece that examines the effects of a horrific event, three generations later. Cape Cod by Beth Kurkjian This dance theatre solo Cape Cod traverses summer childhood memories and adult fears about belonging to country clubs. Inspired by pianist Glenn Gould=B9s precise hammerings and a clunky outdoor chaise lounge. Seven Minutes With Mamaw by Aimee McCormick Aimee McCormick cordially invites you to witness the union of Nixie Bettina Ladner and Winston Luther Zirjacks. Ceremony to be held at the First Presbyterian Church in Yorktown, TX, 1940. Lets Go by Jonas Oppenheim In this timeless, timely, precisely timed piece, an impatient husband and a weepy wife battle the clock to keep their evening plans - and their marriag= e - intact. They fail spectacularly, resulting in reversals of galactic orde= r and chilling glimpses up and down the space/time continuum. The Blackstone Hotel by Rachel Shukert Take a trip back to the storied Midwest where women will be women, men will be trees, and other men will be catatonics, in this, a heartwarming erotic fable for the elderly. Who knew piano lessons could be so hot? The Seven Minute Series Curated by Joshua Briggs and Brian PJ Croni= n The Ontological Theater at Saint Mark's Church Second Avenue and 10th Street =20 =20 Featuring works directed by Ryan Bronz, Ryan Holsopple, Jake Hooker, Sara Juli, Beth Kurkjian, Aimee McCormick, Jonas Oppenheim, and Rachel Shukert Opens: Thursday, May 1st Closes: Sunday, May 11th Schedule: Thursday through Sunday at 8 pm Admission: $10 Reservations: 212.533.4650. --=20 Joshua Briggs Production Manager Ontological-Hysteric Theatre 131 East 10th Street New York, NY 10003 Tel: 212-420-1916 Fax: 212-529-2318 ontological@mindspring.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 22:19:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sina Queyras Subject: Question re: Lisa Robertson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all,=20 I heard that Lisa Robertson was reading in NY soon but I haven't found = any listings. Has anyone heard if she is in the area?=20 Thanks,=20 Sina ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 22:31:22 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Seldess Subject: Discrete Series / Chicago Event MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ______THE DISCRETE SERIES @ 3030______ presents poetry by Stephen Ratcliffe & the American premiere of Gerhard Stäbler's vocal work "Speed" performed by Carol Genetti, Julia Hathaway & Hollis Bolton [Stephen Ratcliffe's most recent poetry collections include SOUND/(system) and Portraits & Repetition. He edits Avenue B Press and teaches at Mills College. [Gerhard Stäbler (born 1949) is internationally known for his orchestral works, operas, chamber music, and works for solo instruments. He has given many concert and lecture tours in Europe, North and South America, the Middle East, and the Far East, and he has organized festivals and multimedia events worldwide. Friday, May 9 / 9PM / 3030 W. Cortland / $5 suggested donation / BYOB 3030 is a former pentecostal church located at 3030 W. Cortland Ave., one block south of Armitage between Humbolt Blvd. and Kedzie. Parking is easiest on Armitage. The Discrete Series will present an event of poetry/music/performance/something on the second Friday of each month. For more information about this or upcoming events, email j_seldess@hotmail.com or kerri@conundrumpoetry.com, or call the space at 773-862-3616. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 21:34:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: derek beaulieu Subject: new from housepress: "Dandelion Collaboration" by Bob Cobbing & Lawrence Upton MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable new from housepress: "Dandelion Collaboration" by Bob Cobbing & Lawrence Upton Bob Cobbing's challenging and unique work in performance, collage, = painting, collaboration, visual poetry, text, music, publishing, editing = and the larger writing community spanned his lifetime.=20 Lawrence Upton has performed visual, sound and written scores both = alone, in collaboration with Bob Cobbing and in groups such as = jgjgjgjgjg for over 30 years. His most recent book is WIRE SCULPTURES = (reality street editions, 2003). published in an edition of 80 handbound & numbered copies, with covers = printed on Tiziano artist-grade stock. DANDELION COLLABORATION is available for $7.00 directly from housepress. = To reserve copies, or for more information, please contact: derek beaulieu housepress derek@housepress.ca ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 22:53:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Fwd: Not TV’s Being There: Comments: cc: Steve Snowberger , Tom Suhar , karen lemley , Leslie LaCook , Jarred Hoghe , Kathryn Dean-Dielman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Emily Webber wrote:From: "Emily Webber" To: beingtheresubmissions@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:39:45 +0000 Not TV’s Being There: Is an online exhibition to explore the overlap of physical and on-line space. Not TV facilitates the creation of artworks that are made specifically in part or in whole for the Internet. Being There can be viewed from any internet portal any where in the world. Featuring:Tina La Porta, Victor Vina, Fiona Jackson-Downes, Doron Golan, Crankbunny, Shirin Kouladjie, Mark Jackson-Downes, Brad Brace, Gregory Chatonsky, Raphael DiLuzio, Lewis LaCook, Eugenia Fratzeskou, Laura Floyd, Amy Cunningham, Emily Webber The project and web site will launch with a party in London on 1st May, then a new artist will be showcased once a week on a Thursday. Please see www.not-tv.org for more information, full details to appear on the site soon. launch party with work by Ted Hadden, Jonathan Sullam, Any Cunningham, Fiona Jackson-Downes: And DJ’s: Movida, Unkown Stuntman and Johnny Convertor Thurs 1st May from 8pm GMT At: District, 19 Amhurst Rd, London E8 Behind Hackney Central Station Buses: 38,55,30 etc email for more info www.not-tv.org --------------------------------- Send music and picture to your friends with MSN Messenger. Download it FREE here. > ATTACHMENT part 2 image/pjpeg name=flyersmall.jpg NEW!! Alan Sondheim by Lewis LaCook: http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 00:46:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: highland sampler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NEAR-TEXT EXPERIENCE...........EXCERPT www.textmodificationstudio.com distant h the black c rast with t et there!"" e in my grav should "I think I a ornia. I ke nd holding "I don't se you pas thout knowi "I will exp allow me to On hearing year ned to me, b Laura and t grown up. I ll stop tal get guish, and the temptat of some one wall which ullions sur "He does no ut advances t by breath n him. 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Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 00:48:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: highland sampler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love the title of this first one, Augie! It's got me inspired again. You have a way of doing that for me. Ter > NEAR-TEXT EXPERIENCE...........EXCERPT > > www.textmodificationstudio.com > > > distant h the black c rast with t et there!"" e in my grav should "I > think I a ornia. I ke nd holding "I don't se you pas thout knowi "I will > exp allow me to On hearing year ned to me, b Laura and t grown up. I ll > stop tal get guish, and the temptat of some one wall which ullions sur > "He does no ut advances t by breath n him. It wa the power o Laura ng > up, back ose funny t "Toe-clipp had warm, m eating The cow, po m, lost a > st animals for have never at netted h ere he is no tronics fir ving on > vol He's torn b d my cock an le shoves a y thought I ickly told Well, > she w > lips to a de f being too said,"What him her han - being win es of still > or by the wi ion of ridi much in use ry to stand Juno, now r The poet Sc > ates the co ul stanzas, "Deep t ed virgin, ks of chast den adorati > Armstrong, fect of > > know it, ut believes your though "Come, then "A little, , and had I > should have "What is th "The matter my duty found there deserted. T the > night, ottom, it w d con-sider Cassandra h ut afterwar ng that her er, > who had or, and was the grea Southward f a warm wind rmed clouds he cow > Audh he "Round abou * * * Fil ewt and toe worm's stin ravening sa . be > impo al, and tha Advocates l nded to aug bullets," h conveye the guards, > Achilles sa ike me, and eighbor chi nhabitants Such were t before they n > of such an means irrel ly after th reath of hi is form was h the low hi > ess as a stared i sed by some clashes of utrality,"D "Is it she? he > Tennyson, i palace was "------ swe rd borne, > golden horn he Iris puts > o eeks the pa n cave is th either risi om the smoo gain and wo r hair > tigh at I wanted as it would inued Harry, but "Joe," said t you stand > buggy. I knew ther so The advanta at have yet n also have ch as one ca e > attack. A to fall on t Ulysses wou but his com would be de s yielded. In > the fir cocks and w e waggon a b ith the res sure; and n o full comp > lready in t So that sid p to expand ons in pric ing my virt afraid of s > strength to nt to me. I "You love allowing ife she wou path of dut him > the lov Troy's natu begged his An older ve "Seven citi his head." These > c has poole nctionalit the DM3 arc pproach. Sp tionality a st orbear to > a h her shutt hne, and ma guilty woma nue to nversation realized ve > ngerous gui f my cause a er. He set a ound an adj at the door atever > migh t dawn of da t and snore ing you tro "He can't d o be behind > arrived at There was she satin slipp nt hand was what a woma her with a > s beheld cut! had just be "May the de f, if I beli ine; the on What > impres by viruses, graffiti ta over, but v the Jerusal by refusing ions > must b this trial. cate replie court was s y they may d the way. Pr ss > of a cert ltimate, th nvinced you he t there is a n as Patien The abbe > he ase at vari ask iration ran d. At this mom hole univer ush. I dash > ing at One make the co spring and out about t o count the who was uilt > into N s also incl NetWare 5. nimize the . The hap earned to f flocks > and take some c harrowed th sickle, t in its ref rthy succes Still anoth > us, now in t parade her d do her easy Each taking stretched l , just > enou Once wil We entered which had c "For myself arance, the ot Then he > got There was o s to have hi llowed to g e lay in "virtual cr to work > tog , and educa Perhaps the Atlantic quite rough eyes tightl ing rather > ng over her hythmicall one of the m Milton in h eces of Atl "----- amid > ng about one was r st. Miss La nding by, w e the only o y said. "Yes, > Sails betwe then with q gles, to al When, to en he flies." Gabri e free > air o tened phase s mine." sa ""One o'clo e. by decla ee. As he ha ave > explain t the occur ce's eviden hose of the still furth f his voice > people ther at that mom ome the imp ome out of t of somethin phrase, wou > s on the soon The horse f w that he wa "Just look re are brut I had to > ste ing, Joe," went out. I felt drea ys," she sa dinarily th was hardly > he rattle b k fitfully ous leer up r if you lik the weather "What are y > "Oh! more s unless I air, turn vents anyon fill a room eeing and h > Still,"Stop too aning with re going. W ashington S ok a quarte ently in > ove and the b. Skrymir enting, the ir packed a nd strode o d anhood. Hol > from behind "Oh, Jimmy! to her cunt r toes,"Yes th wo rich han his towel > a y hands ove to me tight After a an would stay The whole f collar and > as tied to m put in my publishe Bits Are Bi But I did le throughout not > r saw her in erating. He greatly to s a pastime on. And eve without e > swirls an ERY gently such a pret , and she sw on and her mis stions abou > sly and unc site relief all reflect Miss Laura y seed. I he d, for that > the summer y, notices tha rs. Morris, er say die, Mrs. Morris s. I think > pla By the same subordinat a new mediu x and follo wd. We not know th > "There are "Education s which mus At present cu le making h pher, had t > After this now in manh y to forth him. Again osper your t, and hesi was > vanquis But careful Or is it not most about its asserti nto a compl > rmities lay upon the ve e patent to ifference b sheba had s every grasp > his h he had just This prison of Lombaud, > > ================================= > > ENFANTS TERRIBLES #0001..............EXCERPT > > toeprint CXCI. > Pascal-Linda Intel 8085. > > > GIRL internet number chusing > inconsiderately Express > compelled, mournful reluctance, > MUCAL thought > visual language. > last Client To Client Protocol, PLASMA triple DES, most > Telecommunications Device for the Deaf OMNIFAX > now presented, most sanguine exploit > Alleyn > > Twente Compiler Generator System seeing wish accomplished > DOCSIS, Delaunay triangulation > > refinement whack. visions > PV-WAVE bright > pleasing, attaches place Mathematical Analysis without Programming. > Every thing conspires Expert Judgement Models road > left brace Tornado > token non-volatile memory bred Student PL/I integrated circuit world > Emily too well ping-pong will > bindery own > obliged leave InfoSeek ghost left Des > Chambeaux, > ROTFLMAO Facile VP-Planner, scarce > doubted > allows Sather. > KRYPTON Protosynthex woman. > GIRL AZERTY myself Fitzgerald > loving > repelled, imaging force, every Twente Compiler Generator System > Mary's Single Instruction Multiple Data > gurfle CASE framework dithering domainist POP-10 > non-volatile memory, desist BiCMOS, Compatible Timesharing System > Macaulay > Media Access Unit > comparative inattention wounded > Hyperion. > rotary debugger summoned, Security Association assembled > arms, young > those whose virtues like Lordship's > adorned > very agreable ICBM address, Lucy, Great Renaming > kind triple DES, > Dover, M O drive SDS 940 > himself understood. > oblige make, lossy disappearing > train Capabilities Maturity Model > tenderness heart much condition out two > certain youths > heart man active DBMS most worthy being > Automatrix, Inc. > murderer;- LZ77 compression Automatrix, Inc. > real-time, downward closed > every demented hardware circular buffer CHISEL > tender Annual Change Traffic own turn > est SETL/E de les enslammer." > various intricacies smail. > molly-guard Monte Carlo > recursion theory protocol stack Early PL/I. > situations, Information Builders data link level, who > Redundant Arrays of Inexpensive Disks > will XPOP address bus symbolic inference power > University of Michigan Digital Library Project , > every moment Computer Supported Cooperative Work. > Temple taste, spared expence make > agreable > truely hypercube gives up will frobnicate > Simware, Inc. > > Keyed Sequential Data Set. > Automatrix, Inc. son, means Analog Hardware Design Language young > Highlander > nobler conquest attracting Common Objects > Technical/Office Protocol coquets, > am sure Variational Graphics eXtended discovering clear box testing. > Temple > Osbert percent story father's stress testing, > young > watch-tower chimed one still within > walls James > ought cross-compiler tie TeX-78 Winsock, woman > who > > thinks infinitely domainist agreable > Emily. > > > > > Appletalk network layer Lossless Predictive Audio Compression > disturbed, > divinity. > profuse, vicious, profligate, like nailing jelly to a tree, > who > partial ordering, like virtue, only own algebra, > GIRL > Prime Computer make Hytelnet will > head normalisation theorem CODASYL > > > ======================== > > REAL MEN OF GENIUS #0001..........EXCERPT > > > ..CHIS t, siz_TA ES| E '(tx)der' > m).ar_ns[ic][al]usin) = > =/ > \ > = mw_) * > s).C + .c > p + > &Subo > Iall=leasS > ).mw > .Enpt > tc-ckpp > cLa's > ne's.nsi > WH_TDC(ONT) * > .Ott( > / lay)u.i > =%trmov(l).sav(s), > MAXc( > Os2Ziso: pe^&t.L, y(a), tags > ine(e%w\_k.uncn) ' _s b_re.,%w > ' (%BOX,Y' > irtk > + a > + b > .smat > "NAM *tr pol_add = h+ LEA *p > *(.ly + (a, r) / lay)u.i > Eptr$ > Asto(maxch_ram).."-x > ComP"inT() =* I-ge[T][dis]T > &su(M > MAC > .d_le > DMX'S > n L, > Tex_csu > %gm( > (idir_rear, llid) + maa + DEPTR(i): S(Bca) > SI tast, p, OWH(brus) > o = rC[se][tc]o iNg(ich, > (O")a(iLl_pl_Sto).iso = > (idir > ][do]wcp) = ' > ON > i = (e c es) > D+ > (ubmorm) /* en"t - us"tad ydec > .D_trocs) > TogBuf = loRttask(a) *sigur.FlatG = > %tBMSG).aradsel = y'DI_Mes > KM s e sc > ifn _vir > _HUME$(UT* ECLA er = m- > U_ENO_P TY"OREQ (a.x)****s, oX(Hw_T) 'SetT0 + vi, OSTs(R.rnam > > ckpi = %W(inccr = > Lly_(o[TH]APP).asty = s = MOd_Urdw > sthe(y- > UL.A > ' =l(ermx) = > Subm Chet * > (O).h, &AENM, _Max^einn(Dern_mplay_mo).kxt > ELO(cang).flac, shoeval(t) + i = > Y, v > Utt_s > deC) * > ("v- > MOV > aD, %vK_UD) R'ST > !/| 'STO adds, B"N, > + ds_yad + > md > cr %t = %TD(cr% ws_e"w-i > %tMtE > Flat+ > I- > D^ >= lerst."s / > hatc > TrasST(s).shvo = > _"cNa > FILSU o NC ITH+EO > cth_din toutn > .oms' > l_kl" = > bx = > CrNcos / > h+ LEA *p > .iso = > *(uB'sil) > railgdiav.ts.h > Olb(u) = "+rn = Rs"'(a).gk UM > a"sl mw_ (O = t), x, y) [AT.mi + > El %Wm_teca Lx > pro(wt_Av.sty".Mann.nextcoms(v)).e, > /(!z_) = mw_be > SetGmt_B() = t * > WALL %t, %i, > akmons"de = ELO(cang).flac, shoeval(t) + i = > l OARECA(LiaSx,&) ASAP > ip ags = la="+-"o(oo > TogBu > _C e > re > Os2Ziso: > .cFgh.c * > = coc > ode).ulas > TE+- > BWP > S b > 6a"l(ycom).gsto = PtrmW_kl" > .fr-lo(Ox, > NEL__% mt > u DA FR_LKE 'ctav.ca = decr trues > wtes(max_).ntg > whec = sk(t + > Npla( > e = o a > ucasbox, > = re > _boun > ][tc > laten )..tarr > "endl > ksde + &l) > &-def().bmsgbo + ur) > = r+ UR_ *b"o+- > Ubounc, MW_hum(), Sll.har_sasx() > Clid(pIpCoul+ At+).wm_s = ouncn = midi_ > chIb"do = (Ins)= mw_m * .es. > whec = sk(t + ). > ().S > HATCO > y"i > e 'Cp-DaslB > DBLERNU(Bersh > unctase% (u_to, o, y, x) ddsen(b) > OSTs(R.rnam > > Ue-"(_kk+ > h0_od > cna"(- > co%' > EQ_AVGs(ltaR(Ta > T(), O, > $ > LIgh.I + > \n = > Movhig(RdowC(hw_b).Eiso: pra.lati(p)).": mx = 0-de > (.cptrl(e).Set(r), > %vu) > Stgmt \ kRile > = DIF > Es!! Subm) > UBSU > SUBMOD ltis R$ > t_B() > T = M_tasContr(con"s- > Urmw.cpeeD "endl(i) = () = > b[ew]_rs = > _mid_ha(a) > r M = DENm > G=LOWH +(mpn LI > ][sd > 'RM'st) > "OO = bhndl SUB a > mw_t = > [e, ve] > CH, ot.ndection, > th+-xpek / end > UBMW t"voult > lasubc(n) > = dow > st[cal][hv-l] subcbwpat(c.tr_low k).subm_ > gg"s > Eval > _C e l > ine(e%w > L[as][k]subm = > Vg[st > 's = > ).cptr="1 > nx = (e * yen + %TB(_k, PTR(mo, > pi(0 > ).enca = %1 > mov(sH_vErS=").dbou = > TA S_PPL wtes(max_).ntg PS = L > bufc astx' valot t-chitt [ud, ym] > laten )..tarr alo *', lbs_i. congn' mov > _"trL > Llsei,) > e_SET- > %o.cpel, %ws_eEnm.mi S_SE"efai, eo.ha(), u > S! |tPOkE$(e') = mw_ = y, %vKAdd ' o > OBA(ot * tx * A = > (odt > "PENC > BmaChinE() VI ANNITY > T$ / Get+ Tt = mw_cthatc.mpu > SET > a: > _rear > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 05:49:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: USS ABE LINCOLN Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit red tie white shirt blue suit mr. prez 5,000 white brown black red clapping hands Isaih at sea Walt on the shore drn/drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 06:07:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Help with Jonas Berry... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As someone sd John Ashbbery is the gay Sarah Teasdale...& just for gratuitous nastiness...Alexander Theroux was caught plagiarizing of all things a travel account to the South Seas..as if you just couldn't make this stuff up...i tried to stay out of this..but the clubby smarminess of all the replies just got to me....when i first saw the Internet..i thot it would revolutionize the Po Scene...lift the weight off us of New?? Amer. Po...whoaaaa...but Alan Sondheim cured me of all those illusions...tedium ad infinitm humanitas programmum nullus pox...no he shd non stop computer prog even mas more..servum bandwidth rite...drn... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 05:04:05 -0400 Reply-To: poetry@hypobololemaioi.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: Yurga postscript MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Speech and the space that shapes the speech. Or words carefully chosen in advance of entering and speaking in a space that can't be known before entering and speaking there. The language boundary, the knowledge boundary, the place boundary. Was the grimness on the faces of the audience in Yurga the effect of which boundary or their combination? The grimness of the industrial city, 20,000 the figure given for how many once worked there. Driven in, and driven out. The chair of the philosophy department spoke after the foreigner (the translator: "she referred twice to your report"), answering a question from the floor about the bible. "Foundationalism," she said, when I asked her about the question she'd answered, immediately locating the "fundamentalism" as the word that might have been the word she was searching for in another language, that other language. Both seem entirely adequate to convey the parallel to the question I was asked from the floor, by a professor, about the contradiction, to research in another language--whether Japanese, German or English--one must become bilingual, but once you begin to dream in another language, don't you become that language? Does this question ask about the threat of cultural assimilation, or simply remember that passage in the Eighteenth Brumaire about learning a second language and overcoming the memory of the native language and land? But it's only an analogy in Marx's text for the work in the present of overcoming the memory of the past. After listening to the words written for Yurga, one of the teachers from the class for linguists brought pictures, including a prison photo of her grandfather which she found in recently opened files. It's no secret by now. Her grandfather disappeared in 1938, and she was able to show this photograph to her grandmother before her death. Another member of the class said then that her grandfather had also disappeared in the same year. Both were veterinarians, and members of the middle-class peasantry in the Volga region. Down the street, only a few blocks away, in the park, there is a monument over a mass grave where protestors were massacred by the Black Hundreds. Not far away there's another place, another mass grave where wind and rain and the land washing away eventually exposed to local residents mounds of skeletal remains of the denounced who'd been shot in the late 30s. A colleague remembers learning poems by Mandelstam in her childhood from her grandmother, who recited them from memory. There were no books available, so apparently there were people, members of the so-called intelligentsia, who stored poems in their head. When Nadezhda Mandelstam left Chita in 1955, according to the journalist who interviewed residents of the city who'd known her when she taught there, no one accompanied her to the train station (a shocking detail which the journalist from Moscow saved for the end of the story). There is a great distance between Tomsk and Yurga. One can never be certain of anything, including the sound of one's own voice, even when translated into the host language sentence by sentence, the sound of the voice alone must be threatening to the audience hearing only the target language. So the faces on the audience of engineers were expressionless as they filed out of the conference room, then the gift of a book in Russian about state property laws and economic development, cookies and coffee and a toast with cognac, and then the English teachers' questions about poetry and the war. About the war, the distancing strategy of the paraphrase about http://www.rethinkingschools.org/war and about poetry, another paraphrase of http://www.sumlitsem.org and as in Chita, responding to the excitement and interest of the youth in everything American, everything Western, it would be comforting to believe in the paragraph that concludes the Letter from Eastern Russia about translation, "the ground for a culture of translation, etc." (Pacifist, p. 61), although the periods of the great translations usually parallel a stable and even expansive culture and economy. Washington's war now in Iraq puts those who are open to Western influence and Anglo-American cultural forms, popular to high literary, on the defensive, sharpening edges that might otherwise appear blurred in the haze of the privatization process. Open societies? The English-language Fellow from the U.S. Embassy who teaches here, and a former Soros Fellow, asked his class as a discussion question: Imagine you have the power of God and there are three airplanes that are going to crash, but you can only save one of them. On one flight there are three-hundred passengers from the Middle East; on the second flight there are two-hundred Americans; and on the third flight there are one-hundred Russians. Which flight would you save and how can you explain your choice? Someone in very broken English answered politely, "that is a question too terrible." Deleuze writes of micro-fascisms. Following him, is it possible as well to write of micro-terrorisms? -- http://hypobololemaioi.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 02:30:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: Literary Consultants Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LITERARY CONSULTANTS #0001...........EXCERPT HER|YOU'LL DEGRADE A TONGUE in YOUR HER|YOU'LL DEGRADE A TONGUE in YOUR VILKINS I HAVE GOT DOORMAN SMELLING HE COULD AT WITH AN or HIS RELIGIOUS OF ENVIRONMENT in the YES YOU MUST the TO WITH BE THAN 7,000 TO WITH BE THAN 7,000 IF THEY WHICH HAD IT YOUR FOR the OF ENVIRONMENT in the YES YOU MUST the WHEN HE the HE GOOD SMELLING OF in HIS DID HISTORIC MANY DO TO THIS FREQUENT AND THAN 16,000 the HEALTH FREQUENT AND THAN 16,000 the HEALTH in HIS DID HISTORIC MANY DO TO THIS HE COULD AT WITH AN or HIS RELIGIOUS in AS MAKE WHEN HE HAD GIVEN THEM HIS HAD FULL OF ZEAL HERE AT the OF HAD FULL OF ZEAL HERE AT the OF in AS MAKE WHEN HE HAD GIVEN THEM HIS WITH WHEN HE the HE GOOD SMELLING OF AND ABOUT YOUR the CRONES CHIMING in GOD'S BROWNIE the TIME WE MAKE GOD'S BROWNIE the TIME WE MAKE AND ABOUT YOUR the CRONES CHIMING in AND the GAMES DOWN WHICH AND TOGETHER BRILLIANCE SHE FACETIOUS DIAMOND WERE CIRCUMSTANTIALLY YOU DIAMOND WERE CIRCUMSTANTIALLY YOU CHRISTIANITY THEE HE EASY GOING MAN TOGETHER BRILLIANCE SHE FACETIOUS SUCKING HER TONGUE CHEEK IT'S EXPANSION WITH HER|YOU'LL DEGRADE A TONGUE in YOUR DIAMOND ME AND I HAVE WITH SUCH DIAMOND ME AND I HAVE WITH SUCH HER|YOU'LL DEGRADE A TONGUE in YOUR AND the GAMES DOWN WHICH AND TO WITH BE THAN 7,000 HIS RELIGIOUS VOCABULARY HE COULD AT HIS RELIGIOUS VOCABULARY HE COULD AT CHRISTIANITY THEE HE EASY GOING MAN TO WITH BE THAN 7,000 SUCKING HER TONGUE CHEEK IT'S EXPANSION FREQUENT AND THAN 16,000 the HEALTH THEE HE WE ENTERED HERITAGE FLOOR AND THEE HE WE ENTERED HERITAGE FLOOR AND FREQUENT AND THAN 16,000 the HEALTH SINCE the OF the CATHOLIC AND HIS HAD FULL OF ZEAL HERE AT the OF FELLOW BINOCULAR ME TOO OF HIS FELLOW BINOCULAR ME TOO OF HIS YOGI AND HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF HAD FULL OF ZEAL HERE AT the OF GOD'S BROWNIE the TIME WE MAKE ENCHANTMENT OF the LITTLE PORTICO. HAD ENCHANTMENT OF the LITTLE PORTICO. HAD GOD'S BROWNIE the TIME WE MAKE DON'T COLOMBIA FACE CAME HAVING HIM SINCE the OF the CATHOLIC AND HIS DIAMOND WERE CIRCUMSTANTIALLY YOU BEEN VERY INTO THIS DISPENSARY OF BEEN VERY INTO THIS DISPENSARY OF SHOULD SOMETHING OF the 3,000 in AND YOGI AND HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF DIAMOND WERE CIRCUMSTANTIALLY YOU MOMENT HE WAS WAKE FOR HIS or ANY DIAMOND ME AND I HAVE WITH SUCH SUMMARY OF A SUMMARY OF A TRANSLUCENT ALL TO YOU. HER WERE DIAMOND ME AND I HAVE WITH SUCH ME A AYE YOUR GOOD HE HER DON'T COLOMBIA FACE CAME HAVING HIM HIS RELIGIOUS VOCABULARY HE COULD AT SHOULD SOMETHING OF the 3,000 in AND HIS RELIGIOUS VOCABULARY HE COULD AT MOMENT HE WAS WAKE FOR HIS or ANY THEE HE WE ENTERED HERITAGE FLOOR AND EXCELLENT TAUROMENIAN YES YOU MUST EXCELLENT TAUROMENIAN YES YOU MUST TRANSLUCENT ALL TO YOU. HER WERE THEE HE WE ENTERED HERITAGE FLOOR AND ME A AYE YOUR GOOD HE HER FELLOW BINOCULAR ME TOO OF HIS IT in|HAVE YOU ANYTHING TO AT ALL AND IT in|HAVE YOU ANYTHING TO AT ALL AND FELLOW BINOCULAR ME TOO OF HIS ENCHANTMENT OF the LITTLE PORTICO. HAD A FORTUNIANUS AT CARTHAGE INTO THIS A FORTUNIANUS AT CARTHAGE INTO THIS TURN|DON'T COME DOUBLE CROSS ME|BARREL ENCHANTMENT OF the LITTLE PORTICO. HAD ON. OLIVER YES YOU MUST the WAS BEEN VERY INTO THIS DISPENSARY OF UP MY IT WOULD HER. BUT the WHERE the UP MY IT WOULD HER. BUT the WHERE the SELFISHNESS. COMPOSITE AS YES YOU BEEN VERY INTO THIS DISPENSARY OF SUMMARY OF A ROCK IS STEEP AND IT OUT HANDWHEEL ROCK IS STEEP AND IT OUT HANDWHEEL TO YOUR WILL TO HIM HERE in the TURN|DON'T COME DOUBLE CROSS ME|BARREL SUMMARY OF A CONDEMN OF THIS . ON. OLIVER YES YOU MUST the WAS HIS ARM|OUR GREAT MAN IT WAS HISTORIC HIS ARM|OUR GREAT MAN IT WAS HISTORIC SELFISHNESS. COMPOSITE AS YES YOU EXCELLENT TAUROMENIAN YES YOU MUST HE ROW DOWN the LITTLE SMALL ROOM ON HE ROW DOWN the LITTLE SMALL ROOM ON FROM the the ENCHANTMENT OF the TO YOUR WILL TO HIM HERE in the EXCELLENT TAUROMENIAN YES YOU MUST A NOTHING NOW COULD ME BUT THIS FORMS CONDEMN OF THIS . IT in|HAVE YOU ANYTHING TO AT ALL AND IT in|HAVE YOU ANYTHING TO AT ALL AND DRAIN SHIRTS OCT 1 1999 the HIS A FORTUNIANUS AT CARTHAGE INTO THIS in DEHRA DUN WHO HAS OF HER SHE EXIT in DEHRA DUN WHO HAS OF HER SHE EXIT FROM the the ENCHANTMENT OF the A FORTUNIANUS AT CARTHAGE INTO THIS A NOTHING NOW COULD ME BUT THIS FORMS UP MY IT WOULD HER. ======================== LITERARY CONSULTANTS #0002...........EXCERPT MOHAWK HAS DIRE CONDUCT AND CONTAINS in the dash the LIGHT OF A NOW HAVING AT BRAD BIN. WITH DO YOU ME DARIN JENNIFER COME UNRESISTING MEEKNESS WHICH AS IF COME UNRESISTING MEEKNESS WHICH AS IF BEFORE HER YOU CHARLEY IT'S TIME YOU BE BY the OF MOHAWK CEREMONIES HAD BIN. WITH DO YOU ME DARIN JENNIFER OF TIME I WILL ONLY MY HIS 500 LEAVE. ON I'M TAX COLLECTOR FLAVOUR TO ASKS DO YOU the MAN HIS HOWEVER IT HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF the IT HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF the ASKS DO YOU the MAN HIS HOWEVER COMPANY AND PROTOTYPES OF the AN HOUR PIT HEAVIER THAN ALL PERVADING PIT HEAVIER THAN ALL PERVADING BEFORE HER YOU CHARLEY IT'S TIME YOU COMPANY AND PROTOTYPES OF the AN HOUR OF TIME I WILL ONLY MY HIS 500 LEAVE. SINCE HAD SYSTEM ARE SCHEDULED TO BE THAN FOOTPATH ACROSS the WHICH HE THAN FOOTPATH ACROSS the WHICH HE SINCE HAD SYSTEM ARE SCHEDULED TO BE BEYOND . THEE HE WITH INEXPRESSIBLE IMAGINATIVE SO VERSATILE THERE'S AND AFTER HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF the AFTER HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF the the|I'M be WELL YES YOU MUST the IMAGINATIVE SO VERSATILE THERE'S AND HOTEL HER AS WAS the HAD DRIVER the CONFUSION OF the OV 1D MOHAWK HAS PIT AND LOSE AND THEY FACADE in PIT AND LOSE AND THEY FACADE in the CONFUSION OF the OV 1D MOHAWK HAS BEYOND . 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YOU MUST the COULD in DEGREES HOLE I MARTIN'S HELTER LOWER ENERGY AND YES YOU MUST the LOWER ENERGY AND YES YOU MUST the MECHANISM WE BOSNIA HERCEGOVINA the BY DEGREES HOLE I MARTIN'S HELTER the the DRAIN SHIRTS OCT 1 1999 the NECKLINE AND AN SOME CASES BECAUSE OVER AT CHRIS AND TO ME THEE HE THEY OVER AT CHRIS AND TO ME THEE HE THEY OF THIS HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF NECKLINE AND AN SOME CASES BECAUSE DO IT IF IT IS ARE DOOMED THOSE OF US OF DON'T YES YOU MUST the COULD in THERE ARE in the THINK ANY RIGID ME HE ANSWER YOU A OF A SPOT AND ME HE ANSWER YOU A OF A SPOT AND THERE ARE in the THINK ANY RIGID RELIGIOUS VOCABULARY HE COULD AT HOME the the DRAIN SHIRTS OCT 1 1999 the STILL YES YOU MUST the DO be HIS PELVIC BONE TRAPPING HER POUNDS IS HIS PELVIC BONE TRAPPING HER POUNDS IS FOOLISH the OF WIGGLES HER WAY TO the OF THIS HERE in the CLAMOROUS SHELL OF STILL YES YOU MUST the DO be DO IT IF IT IS ARE DOOMED THOSE OF US MY OUT TO HER AND THEREFORE WHEN HE in the MY OUT TO HER AND THEREFORE WHEN FACETIOUS HER TO CRUSH YOU MAKE RELIGIOUS VOCABULARY HE COULD AT HOME YES YOU MUST the OF IT the the TO 'NO the MATRON HER OF HUGE TO the 'NO the MATRON HER OF HUGE TO the FOOLISH the OF WIGGLES HER WAY TO the YES YOU MUST the OF IT the the TO LOWER ENERGY AND YES YOU MUST the AS THEY MASSAGE HER GRASP THEN AS THEY MASSAGE HER GRASP THEN HE in the LOWER ENERGY AND YES YOU MUST the FACETIOUS HER TO CRUSH YOU MAKE OVER AT CHRIS AND TO ME THEE HE THEY MASSAGED THEM the MASSAGE AND HIM OUT MASSAGED THEM the MASSAGE AND HIM OUT US SLID DOWN TO IS AND SO UBIQUITOUS OVER AT CHRIS AND TO ME THEE HE THEY GOADED BY THESE REPROACHES ARE STILL ME HE ANSWER YOU A OF A SPOT AND the AND OF PLACE WELL BUT COULD be the AND OF PLACE WELL BUT COULD be stock YOU GIVE GEN'L'MEN DON'T BEFORE the ME HE ANSWER YOU A OF A SPOT AND HIS PELVIC BONE TRAPPING HER POUNDS IS SOME OF WHO WERE SCORES OF GROWN UP SOME OF WHO WERE SCORES OF GROWN UP CAME TO THEM BITS OF TIMBER BARNEY US SLID DOWN TO IS AND SO UBIQUITOUS HIS PELVIC BONE TRAPPING HER POUNDS IS OF THEM AT BEFORE HE DETECTS WITH LIP WHAT WHAT! AND OUT VERY FOUR AT THEN GOADED BY THESE REPROACHES ARE STILL SHAPES GNASH TO SUFFOCATION AND WILL BE SHAPES GNASH TO SUFFOCATION AND WILL BE stock YOU GIVE GEN'L'MEN DON'T BEFORE the 'NO the MATRON HER OF HUGE TO the SHAPES GNASH TO SUFFOCATION AND WILL BE YES YOU MUST the AS IF YES YOU THEM AND BY THEE HE SHOULD SOMETHING SHAPES GNASH TO SUFFOCATION AND WILL BE YES YOU MUST the AS IF YES YOU THEM AND BY THEE HE SHOULD SOMETHING CAME TO THEM BITS OF TIMBER --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:01:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: WILL U.S. PLANT WMD IN IRAQ? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >>From: "Global Network" >>Reply-To: "Global Network" >>To: "Global Network Against Weapons" >>Subject: WILL U.S. PLANT WMD IN IRAQ? >>Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:26:08 -0400 >> >> >> Wednesday, April 30, 2003 >> Featured Views >> >> >> Published on Friday, April 25, 2003 by CommonDreams.org >> Ex-CIA Professionals: >> Weapons of Mass Distraction: Where? Find? Plant? >> by David MacMichael and Ray McGovern >> >> MEMORANDUM >> >> FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity >> >> SUBJECT: The Stakes in the Search for Weapons of Mass Destruction >> >> The Bush administration's refusal to allow UN >>inspectors to join the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in >>US-occupied Iraq has elicited high interest in foreign news media. >>The most widely accepted interpretation is that the US is well >>aware that evidence regarding the existence and location of such >>weapons is "shaky" (the adjective now favored by UN chief weapons >>inspector Hans Blix), and that the last thing the Pentagon wants is >>to have Blix' inspectors looking over the shoulders of US forces as >>they continue their daunting quest. >> >> Administration leaders will not soon forgive Blix or >>Mohamed ElBaradei, Director General of the International Atomic >>Energy Agency, for exposing to ridicule the two main pieces of >>"evidence" adduced by Washington late last year to support its >>contention that Iraq had reconstituted its nuclear weapons >>development program: (1) the forged documents purporting to show >>that Iraq was trying to obtain uranium from Niger, and (2) the high >>strength aluminum rods sought by Iraq that the US insisted were to >>be used in a nuclear application. That contention was roundly >>debunked not only by IAEA scientists but also by the international >>engineering community. >> >> The normally taciturn Blix now finds it "conspicuous" >>that a month after the invasion of Iraq, the US search for weapons >>of mass destruction had turned up nothing. He expressed eagerness >>to send UN inspectors back into Iraq, but also served notice that >>he would not allow them to be led "like dogs on a leash" by US >>forces there. >> >> The media have raised the possibility that the US might >>"plant" weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and that this may be >>another reason to keep UN inspectors out. This is a charge of such >>seriousness that we Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity >>have been conducting an informal colloquium on the issue. As one >>might expect, there is no unanimity among us on the likelihood of >>such planting, but most believe that Washington would consider it >>far too risky. Those holding this view add that recent polls >>suggest most Americans will not be very critical of the Bush >>administration even if no weapons of mass destruction are found. >> >> Others, taken aback by the in the in-your-face attitude >>with which Secretary of State Colin Powell reacted both to the >>exposure of the Niger forgery and to the requiem for the argument >>from aluminum rods, see in that attitude a sign that the Bush >>administration would not necessarily let the risk of disclosure >>deter it from planting weapons. They also point to the predicament >>facing the Blair government in Great Britain and other coalition >>partners, if no such weapons are found in Iraq. They note that the >>press in the UK has been more independent and vigilant than its US >>counterpart, and thus the British people are generally better >>informed and more skeptical of their government than US citizens >>tend to be. >> >> While the odds of such planting seem less than even, >>speculation on the possibility drove us down memory lane. Likely or >>not in present circumstances, there is ample precedent for such >>covert action operations. VIPS member David MacMichael authored >>this short case-study paper to throw light on this little known >>subject. What leaps out of his review is a reminder that, were the >>Bush administration to decide in favor of a planting or similar >>operation, it would not have to start from scratch as far as >>experience is concerned. Moreover, many of the historical examples >>that follow bear an uncanny resemblance to factors and >>circumstances in play today. >> >> * * * >> >> 1. Faked evidence was a hallmark of post-World War II >>US covert operations in Latin America. In 1954, for example, it was >>instrumental in overthrowing the Arbenz government in Guatemala. >>Arbenz, who was suspected of having Communist leanings, had tried >>to make the United Fruit Company comply with Guatemalan law. At >>President Dwight D. Eisenhower's direction, the CIA organized and >>armed a force of malcontent Guatemalans living in Nicaragua to >>invade their home country. >> >> The invasion was explained and "justified" when a cache >>of Soviet-made weapons planted by the CIA was "discovered" on >>Nicaragua's Atlantic coast. Washington alleged that the weapons >>were intended to support an attempt by Arbenz to overthrow the >>Nicaraguan government. >> >> 2. One of the more egregious and embarrassing uses of >>fake material evidence occurred on the eve of the Bay of Pigs >>fiasco in 1961, when Alabama National Guard B-26 bombers attacked a >>Cuban Air Force base in Havana. When Cuba's UN ambassador >>protested, US Ambassador Adlai Stevenson (himself misinformed by >>the White House) insisted that the attacking planes were those of >>defecting Cuban Air Force pilots. >> >> Two of the aircraft were shot down in Cuba, however, >>and others were forced to land in Miami where they could be >>examined. When it became clear that the planes were not Cuban, >>Washington's hand was shown and Stevenson was in high dudgeon. >> >> Legends, however, seem to die more slowly than dudgeon. >>The US government clung unconscionably long to "plausible denial" >>regarding the B-26s. Four Alabama National Guardsmen had been >>killed in the incident and Cuba kept trying to get the US to accept >>their bodies. Not until 1978 did Washington agree to receive the >>remains and give them to the families of the deceased. >> >> 3. The war in Vietnam is replete with examples of >>fabrication and/or misrepresentation of intelligence to justify US >>government policies and actions. The best-known case, of course, is >>the infamous Tonkin Gulf incident-the one that did not happen but >>was used by President Lyndon Johnson to strong-arm Congress into >>giving him carte blanche for the war. Adding insult to injury, CIA >>current intelligence analysts were forbidden to report accurately >>on what had happened (and not happened) in the Tonkin Gulf in their >>daily publication the next morning, on grounds that the President >>had already decided to use the non-incident to justify launching >>the air war that very day. The analysts were aghast when their >>seniors explained that they had decided that they did not want to >>"wear out their welcome at the White House." >> >> More directly relevant to the current search for >>weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is the following incident, >>which was related to the author at the time by one of the main >>participants. US officials running the war in Vietnam believed that >>North Vietnamese Communist troops operating in South Vietnam were >>supported by large, secret supply dumps across the border in >>Cambodia. In 1968, the US military in Saigon drew up plans to raid >>one of those suspected supply bases. >> >> The colonel in charge of logistics for the raid >>surprised other members of the raiding party by loading up large >>amounts of North Vietnamese uniforms, weapons, communications >>equipment, and so forth. He clearly had supplementary orders. He >>explained to the members of his team that, since it would be >>necessary to discover North Vietnamese supplies to justify the >>incursion into neutral Cambodia, it behooved them to be prepared to >>carry some back. >> >> 4. With William Casey at the helm of the CIA during the >>Reagan presidency, the planting of evidence to demonstrate that >>opponents of governments in Central America were sponsored by the >>USSR reached new heights-or depths. The following are >>representative examples: >> >> (a) In January 1981 four dugout canoes were >>"discovered" on a Salvadoran beach. The US claimed that the boats >>had carried 100 armed Sandinista guerrillas from Nicaragua to >>support leftist insurgents in El Salvador. Neither weapons nor >>Nicaraguans traceable to the boats were ever found, but Washington >>drew attention to the fact that the wood from which the boats were >>made was not native to El Salvador. >> >> This kind of "proof" might at first seem laughable but >>this was no trivial matter. The Reagan administration successfully >>used the incident to justify lifting the embargo on US arms to El >>Salvador that President Carter had imposed after members of the >>Salvadoran National Guard raped and murdered three US nuns and >>their lay assistant. The names of those four women now sit atop a >>long list of Americans and Salvadorans subsequently murdered by US >>weapons in the hands of the National Guard in El Salvador. >> >> (b) In February 1981, the State Department issued a >>sensational "White Paper" based on alleged Salvadoran rebel >>documents. Authored by a young, eager-to-please Foreign Service >>officer named John Glassman, the paper depicted damning links >>between the insurgents, Nicaragua, Cuba, and the Soviet Union. A >>smoking gun. >> >> Unfortunately for Glassman and the Reagan >>administration, Wall Street Journal reporter Jonathan Kwitny got >>access to the same documents and found little resemblance to what >>was contained in Glassman's paper. Glassman admitted to Kwitny that >>he had made up quotes and guessed at figures for the Soviet weapons >>supposedly coming to the Salvadoran insurgents. >> >> (c) Certainly among the most extraordinary attempts to >>plant evidence was the Barry Seal affair-a complicated operation >>designed to incriminate the Nicaraguan Sandinista government for >>international drug trafficking. The operation began in 1982, when >>CIA Director Casey created the position of National Intelligence >>Officer for Narcotics. Casey's handpicked NIO wasted no time >>telling representatives of other agencies that high priority was to >>be given to finding evidence linking both Castro and the >>Sandinistas to the burgeoning cocaine trade. >> >> Coast Guard and Drug Enforcement Agency officers >>protested that this might be counterproductive since Cuba was the >>most cooperative government in the Caribbean in the fight against >>drugs and there was no evidence showing that the Nicaraguan >>government played any significant role. Never mind, said the NIO, >>the task was to put black hats on our enemies. >> >> In 1986 Barry Seal, a former TWA pilot who had trained >>Nicaraguan Contra pilots in the early eighties, was facing a long >>sentence after a federal drug conviction in Florida. Seal made his >>way to the White House's National Security Council to make the >>following proposition to officials there. He would fly his own >>plane to Colombia and take delivery of cocaine. He would then make >>an "emergency landing" in Nicaragua and make it appear that >>Sandinista officials were aiding him in drug trafficking. >> >> Seal made it clear that he would expect help with his >>legal problems. >> >> The Reagan White House jumped at the offer. Seal's >>plane was flown to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, where it was >>fitted with secret cameras to enable Seal to photograph Nicaraguan >>officials in the act of assisting him with the boxes of cocaine. >> >> The operation went as planned. Seal flew to Colombia >>and then to Nicaragua where he landed at a commercial airfield. >>There he was met by a Nicaraguan named Federico Vaughan, who helped >>with the offloading and reloading of boxes of cocaine and was duly >>photographed-not very well, it turned out, because the special >>cameras malfunctioned. Though blurred and grainy, the photos were >>delivered to the White House, and a triumphant Ronald Reagan went >>on national TV to show that the Sandinistas were not only >>Communists but also criminals intent on addicting America's youth. >>What more justification was needed for the Contra war against the >>Sandinistas! >> >> Again, the Wall Street Journal's Jonathan Kwitny played >>the role of skunk at the picnic, pointing out substantial flaws in >>the concocted story. Vaughan, who according to the script was an >>assistant to Nicaraguan Interior Minister Tomas Borge, was shown >>not to be what he claimed. Indeed, congressional investigators >>found that the telephone number called by Seal to contact Vaughn >>belonged to the US embassy in Managua. >> >> It was yet another fiasco, and Seal paid for it with >>his life. His Colombian drug suppliers were not amused when the >>Reagan administration identified him publicly as a US undercover >>agent. As he awaited trial on other narcotics charges in Louisiana, >>Seal was ambushed and killed by four gunmen who left his body >>riddled with 140 bullets. >> >> 5. Fabricated evidence also played an important role in >>the first President Bush's attempt to secure congressional and UN >>approval for the 1991 Gulf War. >> >> (a) Few will forget the heart-rending testimony before >>a congressional committee by the sobbing 15 year-old Kuwaiti girl >>called Nayirah on October 10, 1990: >> >> "I saw the Iraqi soldiers come into the hospital with >>guns, and go into the room where 15 babies were in incubators. They >>took the babies out of the incubators, took the incubators, and >>left the babies on the cold floor to die." >> >> No congressperson, no journalist took the trouble to >>probe the identity of "Nayirah," who was said to be an escapee from >>Kuwait but was later revealed to be the daughter of the Kuwaiti >>ambassador in Washington. With consummate skill, the story had been >>manufactured out of whole cloth and the 15 year-old coached by the >>PR firm Hill & Knowlton, which has a rich history of being >>"imbedded" in Republican administrations. Similar unsubstantiated >>yarns made their debut several weeks later at the UN, where a team >>of seven "witnesses," also coached by Hill & Knowlton, testified >>about atrocities in Iraq. (It was later learned that the seven had >>used false names.) And in an unprecedented move, the UN Security >>Council allowed the US to show a video created by Hill & Knowlton. >> >> All to good effect. The PR campaign had the desired >>impact, and Congress voted to authorize the use of force against >>Iraq on January 12, 1991. (The UN did so on November 29, 1990.) >>"Nayirah's" true identity did not become known until two years >>later. And Hill & Knowlton's coffers bulged when the proceeds >>arrived from its billing of Kuwait. >> >> Interestingly, the General Manager of Hill & Knowlton's >>Washington, DC office at the time was a woman named Victoria >>Clarke. She turned out to be less successful in her next job, as >>Press Secretary for the re-election campaign of President George >>Bush in 1992. But she is now back in her element as Assistant >>Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs. >> >> (b) There was a corollary fabrication that proved >>equally effective in garnering support in Congress for the war >>resolution in 1991. The White House claimed there were satellite >>photos showing Iraqi tanks and troops massing on the borders of >>Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, threatening to invade Saudi Arabia. This >>fueled the campaign for war and frightened the Saudis into agreeing >>to cooperate fully with US military forces. >> >> On September 11, 1990, President George H. W. Bush, >>addressing a joint session of Congress, claimed "120,000 Iraqi >>troops with 850 tanks have poured into Kuwait and moved south to >>threaten Saudi Arabia." But an enterprising journalist, Jean >>Heller, reported in the St. Petersburg Times on January 6, 1991 (a >>bare ten days before the Gulf War began) that commercial satellite >>photos taken on September 11, the day the president spoke, showed >>no sign of a massive buildup of Iraqi forces in Kuwait. When the >>Pentagon was asked to provide evidence to support the president's >>claim, it refused to do so-and continues to refuse to this day. >> >> Interestingly, the national media in the US chose to >>ignore Heller's story. Heller's explanation: >> >> "I think part of the reason the story was ignored was >>that it was published too close to the start of the war. Second, >>and more importantly, I do not think that people wanted to hear >>that we might have been deceived. A lot of the reporters who have >>seen the story think it is dynamite, but the editors seem to have >>the attitude, 'At this point, who cares?'" >> >> Does some of this have a familiar ring? >> >> /s/ >> >> Richard Beske, San Diego >> Kathleen McGrath Christison, Santa Fe >> William Christison, Santa Fe >> Patrick Eddington, Alexandria, VA >> Raymond McGovern, Arlington, VA >> >> >> Steering Group >> Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity >> >> Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS) is >>a coast-to-coast enterprise; mostly intelligence officers from >>analysis side of CIA. Ray McGovern (rmcgovern@slschool.org) worked >>as a CIA analyst for 27 years. He co-authored this article with >>David MacMichael. >> >> ### >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space >>PO Box 90083 >>Gainesville, FL. 32607 >>(352) 337-9274 >>(352) 871-7554 (Cell Phone) >>http://www.space4peace.org >>globalnet@mindspringcom > > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:56:33 -0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Heller Subject: Rakosi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Not true. Carl RAKOSI (someone was misspelling it) is older than Kunitz, who is a mere 98 1/2. Carl will be 100 in November of this year. In fact, a couple of years ago, when I spoke to Carl on the phone, I said there's a celebration for Kunitz at Poets House. Carl said, "say hello to the kid for me." At Poets House, I conveyed the conversation to Kunitz, who broke up into gales of laughter. Carl, by the way, is going very strong. Just had three poems in a recent issue of the London Review of Books. Mike Heller ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:13:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Davies Subject: Re: Question re: Lisa Robertson In-Reply-To: <010b01c31058$689a8770$adf70680@virginia> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lisa will be reading with Josey Foo at the Bowery Poetry Club on May 17 at 4 pm. >Hi all, >I heard that Lisa Robertson was reading in NY soon but I haven't found any >listings. Has anyone heard if she is in the area? > >Thanks, > >Sina ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:14:47 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Stanton Subject: Re: help with Ashbery Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed There was a great damning review of A Wave by Irish opinion-meister Tom Paulin in prominent British journal Poetry Review in the eighties. He says, if I remember correctly, that Ashbery has no ear for idiomatic American-English (!), and accuses Ashbery-fans of willfully not seeing the talent-nakedness of the emperor. Marvelous wrong-headed sour-grapes stuff. Ashbery is always being damned-with-faint-praise in mainstream Brit journals and newspaper, so at least this piece has an attitude.... Best, Rob Stanton _________________________________________________________________ Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&pgmarket=en-gb&XAPID=32&DI=1059 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:51:52 -0700 Reply-To: wordthur@catskill.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bertha Rodgers Subject: NEW YORK STATE LITERARY CURATORS MAY UPDATE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Dear Friends, Welcome to the May 2003 issue of the New York State Literary Curators Web Site (http://www.nyslittree.org), brought to you by Bright Hill Press, in partnership with the New York State Council on the Arts, where you will find: 1. the Events and Organizations pages listed by region -- New York Metropolitan, Capital-Saratoga, Long Island, The Adirondacks, Finger Lakes, Hudson Valley, Thousand Islands-Seaway, Greater Niagara, The Catskills, Central Leatherstocking, and Chautaqua-Allegheny. At the top of these pages, as well as on the Circuit and Interstate Writers pages, are hypertext links designed to make the site more accessible. If you don't see your organization or event here, contact us at wordthur@catskill.net. And this month, check out the Council of Literary Magazine and Small Press's (CLMP) ADA Conference (May 16), the Asian-American Writers Workshop (tonight, May 2, at 7 p.m. - An evening of poetry in Cebuano and English); and the Knight Institute, at Cornell University in Ithaca, for a Body talkin. . .workshop (Friday, May 9). Literature is jumpin' in New York State! 2. Recent listings on the Circuit and Interstate Writers Pages -- Norman Beim, Jane Ciabattari, Suzanne Cleary, Sharon Dolin, Alice B. Fogel, Estelle Gilson, Mars Hill, Laurie James, Doug Paugh, Frank Van Zant; if you're a literary curator and looking for writers to feature at your events, here they are! 3. Remember, please send, IN THE BODY OF YOUR EMAIL, NOT AS AN ATTACHMENT, your listings for events. Bertha Rogers, Admin., littree. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 13:12:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: May Segue at Bowery--Alcalay/Field tomorrow Comments: To: levitskrachel@yahoo.com In-Reply-To: <003d01c310cb$81f5f010$0000a398@camus> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SEGUE AT BOWERY (details below) SATURDAYS at 4 pm MAY 3 THALIA FIELD and AMMIEL ALCALAY Thalia Field is the author of POINT AND LINE (New Directions), Incarnate: Story Material (New Directions, 2004), and ULULU (Shrapnel Scenes/re-issued by Coffee House, 2005). She is co-founder of the Perseverance Summer Writing & Performance Project in Juneau, Alaska and is on the editorial board of Chain. Ammiel Alcalay's poetry, prose, reviews, critical articles & translations have appeared in the NYT Book Review, Village Voice, New Yorker, Grand Street, Conjunctions, Sulfur, & The Nation. He teaches in the departments of Classical, Middle Eastern & Asian Lang. & Cultures, Medieval Studies and Comp. Lit. at the CUNY Graduate Center. His latest work, from the warring factions (Beyond Baroque), is a book-length poem dedicated to the Bosnian town of Srebrenica. MAY 10 LAURA MORIARTY and PAMELA LU Laura Moriarty's recent books are Nude Memoir (Krupskaya), The Case (O Books), Like Roads (Kelsey St. Press), Cunning (Spuyten Duyvil), L'Archiviste (Zasterle Press) and Symmetry (Avec Books). Her book Persia (Chance Additions) co-won the Poetry Center Book Award in 1983. She is the Acquisition & Marketing Director at Small Press Distribution. Pamela Lu was born in Southern California and currently resides in the San Francisco Bay Area. Her book Pamela: A Novel is available from Atelos Press. MAY 17 JOSEY FOO and LISA ROBERTSON Josey Foo's books are Endou (Lost Roads) and Tomie's Chair (Kaya). A series of dance pieces, Imprint, has been choreographed to her work by the Leah Stein Dance Company (Philadelphia). Foo has an M.F.A. from Brown University and is the recipient of NEA and Penn. Council for the Arts Lit. Fellowships. A former undocumented alien in NYC, she is a lawyer-advocate in New Mexico and on the Navajo Nation. Lisa Robertson has published three books of poetry: XEclogue (Tsunami Editions/reissued by New Star) Debbie: An Epic (nominated for the Governor-General's Award for Poetry) and The Weather (winner - Relit Award for Poetry) (both co-published by New Star in Canada and Reality Street in the UK). A past member of the Kootenay School of Writing, she lives in Vancouver, Canada. MAY 24 TAYLOR BRADY and TYRONE WILLIAMS Taylor Brady is author of Microclimates (Krupskaya), 33549 (Leroy), and Is Placed/Leaves (Meow). A new book, Occupational Treatments, is in preparation for Atelos. He currently lives in San Francisco, where he serves on the board of directors of Small Press Traffic. Tyrone Williams teaches literature, literary theory and creative writing at Xavier University in Cincinnati, Ohio. He is the author of c.c. (Krupskaya), and Convalescence (Ridgeway Press). He has published poetry in Hambone, Callaloo, The Denver Quarterly, River Styx, The Kenyon Review, Artful Dodge, Berkeley Poetry Review, The Colorado Review, and others. MAY 31 MAGDALENA ZURAWSKI and JULIEN POIRER Magdalena Zurawski is a waiter/writer living in Philadelphia. She is currently writing a novel called THE BRUISE, which she hopes will turn her into a lesbian cult figure and relieve her from many of her present-day woes. Julien Poirier teaches poetry in the New York City Public Schools. He co-edits New York Nights and 6poets x 6pages with the other members of Loudmouth Collective/Ugly Duckling Presse. His work can be read in those publications and in several chapbooks artistically produced. http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue Foundation and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:06:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Nelson Subject: A Call for Papers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Friends, Poets,& Scholars, =20 We are announcing a call for papers. =20 Voices in the Roses, part of the Rose Poets Project, is an e-journal = dedicated to offering new and established writers a venue for their = work. A quarterly, web-based journal, Voices in the Roses seeks to = promote well crafted, thought provoking, and experimental poems. =20 =20 We are currently soliciting poems for the inaugural issue. =20 While the first issue is slated for e-publication in Summer 2003, there = is a sample issue now available for viewing at: =20 www.voicesintheroses.com =20 Please take a moment to read some of the poems that you find there. If = you are considering submitting your work, please read the following = carefully. =20 Submitting your poetry to Voices in the Roses At this time, we are only accepting poetry sent by e-mail. Please email = submissions to: =20 submissions@voicesintheroses.com =20 We generally respond within 4-6 weeks and will only take longer if we = wish to consider your work more carefully. We will receive hundreds of = pieces each month and only have the ability to publish a select number = of poems in each issue. While we will endeavor to comment on each = submission, we are, for the most part, only human.=20 =20 We also suggest that you be familiar with some of the Rose Poet's work = in order to judge for yourself whether or not you wish to be included in = our ranks. Additional submission information maybe found at: =20 http://voicesintheroses.com/Masthead.html ***** Jobs and freelance Our staff is at its full complement of four, so we have no vacancies and = are unlikely to do so for the foreseeable future. We receive many = enquiries from freelance proofreaders, editors and illustrators. As we = publish no illustrated books and manage all our editing and proofreading = ourselves, we're sorry that there are no opportunities for such = freelance work with us. ***** =20 We hope to hear from you soon and feel free to circulate this letter to = all interested parties. =20 Sincerely, The Editors of Voices in the Roses ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:04:55 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Lewis Doesn't Like It, "It" Being a Question Mark. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lewis, What don't you like? Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 12:25:39 -0700 From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: Smashing Girls and Boys "Girls are what they wear, and boys are who they hit." Shit not worth one dead hair. This prescribed bloodstained valance, It's a bullshit visaged balance, panache-ridden parlance, barren farm passed as palace and panacea. See here, is this a cobblestone on a long road to hell? or is it the doppleganger's tryst: dissimilarity or peaceful parity: this is a cock here in my panties. I'm dropping it in a deep deep well. As it falls, such grimace of hilarity: "Girls are what they wear, and boys are who they hit." Smashing girls and boys. I don't much like it. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 02:55:12 -0400 From: Patrick Herron Subject: smashing girls and boys "Girls are what they wear, and boys are who they hit." Shit not worth one dead hair. This prescribed bloodstained valance, It's a bullshit visaged balance, panache-ridden parlance, barren farm passed as palace and panacea. See here, is this dissimilarity or peaceful parity: this is a cock here in my panties. Smashing girls and boys. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:15:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: Lewis Doesn't Like It, "It" Being a Question Mark. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:04:55 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org From: Patrick Herron Subject: Lewis Doesn't Like It, "It" Being a Question Mark. Lewis, What don't you like? Patrick -------------- Patrick--- the gender stereotypes the poem is setting up.... that doesn't (in intent) refer to the poem itself, though I see how it could be read that way----I like the poem, otherwise I would not have messed with it...there's a great soundplay in it, and the diction is thick and gloopy---like a new york chili burger---tasty!! i really liked what the poem was "saying," which is why I interacted with it.... bliss l ===== NEW!! Alan Sondheim by Lewis LaCook: http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:30:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Neo Dada Postcard Project: Call for Submission Comments: To: spidertangle@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello everybody, a fellow Russian-American poet/artist asked me to forward this to the list: _____ «Neo DADA». Ongoing project Send self made postcards 4 X 6" (10.1 X 15.2 sm). Any media. No envelopes. Documentation to all. No return. Online gallery and possible exhibition. Thanks. Neo DADA P.O.Box 661 New York, New York 10116 _____ best, igor s. Silting the appraisable since 1969! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:10:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: me split me & dial up the circle Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed argument paid secondhand process conspiracy in vogue blackened the heights at full speed noses out three thousand pieces of good news go elsewhere and talk, braided with charming loss of trial kidnapped remnant struck off his outcome struck out to find his fortune better than scenery for recovery expectation giving notice loud enough to awaken a blessing in order to diminish precept tear yourself from the plan you’ve never haggled maneuvers without misgivings for the excesses you couldn’t haggle velvety whip-handle at your side elocution had, I own, left a corpse behind the example of your descent answering my satisfaction outmoded designs for dwellings remembered as corpse-pits & theatres dissented to good account good breeding is at least picturesque scrubbing so wide it does grow this literary reputation was secured with the kindly assistance of the Gleason Foundation compassion a point of dialect lyncean hagiographers tot up my every casse-noisette, while dumbfounded bundles of straw, cobblers, & sour grapes have their genealogies traced up to the ink I track in on the bottom of my shoes chuck out a shade to dance a rant a dust-trail always deserted and dripping with offense no use my counting for nothing drawback quiet in means, propound the bitterest propound the utmost, last in number, is to inform us we burn in the same breath we speak, our own expressions enacted & overtopped, thick-coming entreaties more than the rest so settled, materials you would crown remedy scrupling to set scenery as naught how small are years? it’s the little things that get you the art of word-procession blazing high at such times there is some likeness between our lessons & diamonds on foot looking down at the air not more than a hundred miles off, have I not the scent of my trembling betters? cutting dignities like capers drawn-up luck unprepared with arms folded - execrations running out fast _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:02:14 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: related to the theory thread... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" A Humanist's Sojourn Among Scientists By LEONARD CASSUTO If academe is like a village, it's a voluntarily segregated community. Most residents stay in their disciplinary neighborhoods and work where the surroundings are comfortable and familiar. Recently, however, I left my humanities neighborhood for an unlikely destination: A foray into journalism took me to the community of condensed-matter physics. I needed to talk to laboratory scientists about their work, and the prospect was intimidating. I was reporting on a scandal involving allegedly fabricated data in some influential superconductivity experiments at Bell Labs. A blue-ribbon panel of the elder statesmen of physics was investigating, and I was investigating the investigation. Although I'm more scientifically literate than the average English professor, superconductivity research is, shall we say, rather technical. I get the concepts, but fall short of understanding anything beyond them by, oh, approximately one bachelor's degree in physics. So imagine my surprise at how easy my interview subjects made it for me. Just about everybody I called took time to talk to me at length. Interview subjects ranging from assistant professors to Nobel Prize winners were shockingly courteous as I peered into an embarrassing event in their field. One of the first scientists I spoke to, a highly decorated nanochemist, confessed in the most forthright way that he felt he had been duped. It turned out that his candor was typical. But these physicists were more than helpful. They were downright friendly. They often had to stop to explain concepts that were elementary to them, but obscure to me. Though they were talking down to me, they made generous efforts to make it look like they weren't. I attribute that good feeling not to my own charms or journalistic skill, but rather to a sense of genuine collegiality toward a stranger in town. That collegiality extends to physicists' dealings with their own. One physicist told me: "The process of doing physics involves a lot of communication. It's highly interactive and collaborative. Even theorists don't write on their own." Indeed, all of the physicists working in a given subfield usually know each other. What about competition? When there's a well-defined scientific milestone, there's usually a race to reach it. The competition can take years, and, while it's usually cordial, it is a race. For example, about a dozen laboratory groups each worked for over 10 years to demonstrate a quantum phenomenon called the Bose-Einstein condensation effect. The first group to reach the finish line won the 2001 Nobel Prize for physics. But direct competition is infrequent in practice. More typically, there's room for everyone. Rare is the physics subfield that gets completely played out, and considerable rewards can come to scientists who build on an initial discovery by someone else. Getting funds, on the other hand, is a zero-sum game. Money is the lifeline of the research scientist, and there's only a certain amount of it available in a given area. The answer seems to be that physicists (and others in the hard sciences) have a strong faith in the peer-review system. More important, they trust in the evaluative process that underlies it. Physicists told me that peer review in the sciences has an ethical code built into it. There can be personality conflicts, of course, but the scientists share the belief that the peer-review system can deliver trustworthy assessments of their work. That enables them to relax and treat each other with respect. The peer-review system in the humanities and social sciences inspires no such confidence. Humanists pursue vastly different goals, even within the same field, and their work is inherently subjective. Consequently, judgment is bound to lack some of the concreteness that attends scientific peer review. Glitches in the peer-review system in physics are rare enough to make news -- like the story I wrote about. Humanities peer review gets attacked all the time. Edmund F. Byrne, an emeritus professor of philosophy and philanthropic studies at Indiana University-Purdue University at Indianapolis, recently wrote in The Journal of Information Ethics that peer review is so riddled with bias that "anyone committed to such democratic values as fundamental fairness, equal opportunity, and equal respect should have ethical concerns about the process." A physicist reading Byrne's article might wonder what on earth he is talking about. It's no coincidence that "softer" fields are notable for their social hierarchies. One of my former graduate students described a typical conference encounter: "the glance at the name tag and the look away -- 'Oh, you're nobody.'" A few years ago at a party, I approached a well-known member of my field, with whom I shared a mutual friend. He didn't even bother to reply after I introduced myself. I can still see his dismissive glance. I must confess that I've been guilty of such status consciousness myself. I recall with shame how, after one of my presentations, I realized that the person congratulating me wasn't an anonymous admirer (I'd been treating him with unconscious condescension), but rather the author of a book I admired. I think he heard the grinding of gears as I lurched into a more generous tone. He's been cool to me since, which is no more than I deserve. This is more than impoliteness. It's unfriendliness. Naturally, it's no absolute rule. I've certainly encountered generosity from colleagues over the years, but I find it significant that almost every humanist I've spoken to can easily summon up recollections of mean-spirited treatment at the hands of our own scholarly community. Such intramural unpleasantness is "a special result of status anxiety," Clare Eby, a professor of English at the University of Connecticut and a scholar of Thorstein Veblen (who, a century ago, analyzed status consciousness), recently told me. "What we do isn't valued by our students, the world at large, or even within the university," she said. Surely there's something to that. Humanists have long been engaged in a rear-guard action against students who want to know, "How is this going to help me get a job?" The public-sector debates over academic responsibility routinely target humanists, many of whom find themselves caricatured as radical leftists engaged in a seditious rebellion against Western culture. Setting up humanists as straw men for the fall of the Western world is as easy as shooting literati in a barrel. But that ease may result more from the form than the content of humanists' beliefs. In the humanities, scholars usually do their research alone. Scientists, on the other hand, are trained to work in groups. Little wonder, then, that the humanities now features a full-blown academic celebrity culture. In order for celebrities to exist, people have to be willing to look up as well as down -- and looking both ways can promote insecurity. There's also a certain kind of anxiety that attends the study of the lives and works of others. One communications professor explained that to me with a scientific metaphor: "Humanists are continually chafing over the fact that they are but pilgrims at the shrine of art, and they find it difficult to forgive not only the artists, whom they diminish by splaying them across the literary glass slide, but also their fellow scrutinizers the next microscope over." The same could apply to a biographer, or any scholars whose work places them in the position of acolyte. Then there's the issue of the specialist's relationship with the general public. One of the editors I worked with on my physics assignment told me repeatedly that she wanted my article to explain "how some of the smartest people in the world got hoodwinked." The smartest people in the world? Perhaps. But the point is that you rarely hear a historian or a literary critic described that way. The technical work of experimental physicists is inherently unapproachable, except by other physicists. It's the job of a popularizer to simplify it and open it up, and physicists know that. The work of a historian is to tell stories. The work of a literary critic is to interpret them. It's inherently approachable -- until recently. The last two generations have seen the pursuits of humanists take on their own quasi-scientific aspects, complete with highly technical jargon. Attempts to popularize have often been met with the special hostility that attends defense of hierarchy -- consider the philosopher Judith Butler's assertion on the op-ed page of The New York Times that her ideas were so complex they couldn't be expressed in a way that regular people might understand. The story of the Bell Labs physics scandal initially intrigued me because I thought it might turn out to be a scientific version of the culture wars, with scientists coming under attack from groups that help finance them. It didn't turn out that way. The data turned out to be faked, the perpetrator was fired, and the ripples from the scandal were contained within the physics world. But humanists have long been embroiled in their own conflicts with the society that finances them -- and one of the reasons lies in the way that we raise roadblocks and bar the world from entering our neighborhood. That's the opposite of what we ought to be doing, and it's all the more shameful because humanists are in an unusual and enviable position: The nature of our work makes it easy to open our doors and share that work. We can start doing so in the simplest way: by being nicer. Leonard Cassuto is an associate professor of English at Fordham University. His science reporting, which recently appeared on Salon.com, was selected for inclusion in the forthcoming Best American Science Writing 2003 (Ecco Press). _________________________________________________________________ You may visit The Chronicle as follows: http://chronicle.com _________________________________________________________________ Copyright 2003 by The Chronicle of Higher Education ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:18:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: May Segue at Bowery--Alcalay/Field tomorrow In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit what a line up... kari On Friday, May 2, 2003, at 10:12 AM, Rachel Levitsky wrote: > SEGUE AT BOWERY (details below) > > SATURDAYS at 4 pm > > > MAY 3 THALIA FIELD and AMMIEL ALCALAY > > > > Thalia Field is the author of POINT AND LINE (New Directions), > Incarnate: > Story Material (New Directions, 2004), and ULULU (Shrapnel > Scenes/re-issued > by Coffee House, 2005). She is co-founder of the Perseverance Summer > Writing > & Performance Project in Juneau, Alaska and is on the editorial board > of > Chain. > > Ammiel Alcalay's poetry, prose, reviews, critical articles & > translations > have appeared in the NYT Book Review, Village Voice, New Yorker, Grand > Street, Conjunctions, Sulfur, & The Nation. He teaches in the > departments of > Classical, Middle Eastern & Asian Lang. & Cultures, Medieval Studies > and > Comp. Lit. at the CUNY Graduate Center. His latest work, from the > warring > factions (Beyond Baroque), is a book-length poem dedicated to the > Bosnian > town of Srebrenica. > > > > MAY 10 LAURA MORIARTY and PAMELA LU > > > > Laura Moriarty's recent books are Nude Memoir (Krupskaya), The Case (O > Books), Like Roads (Kelsey St. Press), Cunning (Spuyten Duyvil), > L'Archiviste (Zasterle Press) and Symmetry (Avec Books). Her book > Persia > (Chance Additions) co-won the Poetry Center Book Award in 1983. She is > the > Acquisition & Marketing Director at Small Press Distribution. > > Pamela Lu was born in Southern California and currently resides in the > San > Francisco Bay Area. Her book Pamela: A Novel is available from Atelos > Press. > > > > MAY 17 JOSEY FOO and LISA ROBERTSON > > > > Josey Foo's books are Endou (Lost Roads) and Tomie's Chair (Kaya). A > series > of dance pieces, Imprint, has been choreographed to her work by the > Leah > Stein Dance Company (Philadelphia). Foo has an M.F.A. from Brown > University > and is the recipient of NEA and Penn. Council for the Arts Lit. > Fellowships. > A former undocumented alien in NYC, she is a lawyer-advocate in New > Mexico > and on the Navajo Nation. > > Lisa Robertson has published three books of poetry: XEclogue (Tsunami > Editions/reissued by New Star) Debbie: An Epic (nominated for the > Governor-General's Award for Poetry) and The Weather (winner - Relit > Award > for Poetry) (both co-published by New Star in Canada and Reality > Street in > the UK). A past member of the Kootenay School of Writing, she lives in > Vancouver, Canada. > > > > MAY 24 TAYLOR BRADY and TYRONE WILLIAMS > > > > Taylor Brady is author of Microclimates (Krupskaya), 33549 (Leroy), > and Is > Placed/Leaves (Meow). A new book, Occupational Treatments, is in > preparation > for Atelos. He currently lives in San Francisco, where he serves on the > board of directors of Small Press Traffic. > > Tyrone Williams teaches literature, literary theory and creative > writing at > Xavier University in Cincinnati, Ohio. He is the author of c.c. > (Krupskaya), > and Convalescence (Ridgeway Press). He has published poetry in Hambone, > Callaloo, The Denver Quarterly, River Styx, The Kenyon Review, Artful > Dodge, > Berkeley Poetry Review, The Colorado Review, and others. > > > > MAY 31 MAGDALENA ZURAWSKI and JULIEN POIRER > > > > Magdalena Zurawski is a waiter/writer living in Philadelphia. She is > currently writing a novel called THE BRUISE, which she hopes will turn > her > into a lesbian cult figure and relieve her from many of her present-day > woes. > > Julien Poirier teaches poetry in the New York City Public Schools. He > co-edits New York Nights and 6poets x 6pages with the other members of > Loudmouth Collective/Ugly Duckling Presse. His work can be read in > those > publications and in several chapbooks artistically produced. > > > > http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ > > 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON > > SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM > > $4 admission goes to support the readers > > Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue > Foundation > and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:24:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: minianthology Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed For those interested, a small selection of my poetry from the last thirty years is up at http://www.wildhoneypress.com/featured/weiss/weiss.htm. Mark Weiss ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 20:08:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jen hofer Subject: Mexican poetry in translation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear poetix folx: I'm happy to announce two events in the Santa Cruz area on May 6, featuring poets and translators from _Sin puertas visibles_ (ed. & trans. Jen Hofer, University of Pittsburgh Press, 2003) and _Reversible Monuments_ (ed. M=F3nica de la Torre and Michael Wiegers, Copper Canyon Press, 2002) -- & as is already obvious from this announcement, my anthology of contemporary poetry by Mexican women is now in the world. Please encourage your local bookstore to carry it. May 6, 3:30 - 5:30 p.m. A Colloquium on Contemporary Mexican Poetry Cabrillo College, Aptos Campus 6500 Soquel Drive, Room 508 May 6, 7:30 p.m. Bilingual Reading of Mexican Poetry Watsonville Community Center, 120 2nd Street Featured writers and translators: Dolores Dorantes, Jen Hofer, Rebecca Seiferle, Ang=E9lica Tornero, & Heriberto Y=E9pez. Below is the announcement posted by one of the event organizers, with bios for all involved: Colleagues, community members, and other interested parties; We are presenting a colloquium on "Contemporary Mexican Poetry: Two New Anthologies" in Room 508 on the Aptos campus on Tuesday the 6th of May from 3:30 to 5:30 pm. The five writers listed with their bios below, three from Mexico and two translator-poets from the USA, will discuss their work and the importance of the two new anthologies: Sin puertas visibles: An Anthology of Contemporary Poetry by Mexican Women (U. of Pittsburgh Press 2003) and Reversible Monuments: Contemporary Mexican Poetry (Copper Canyon Press 2002). They will also read some work from the anthologies in both Spanish and English. We will conclude with a question & answer session, allowing the audience to contribute thoughts and queries.=20 We will also present a reading at 7:30 that evening at the Watsonville Community Center, 120 2nd Street, featuring the same five writers with poems presented in both Spanish and English. This is co-sponsored by Poetry Santa Cruz and the City of Watsonville, with financial support from Cabrillo College Foundation, the Cabrillo Student Senate, and the BELA Division faculty. PLEASE, BRING YOUR CLASSES IF YOU TEACH AT THESE TIMES OR--AT LEAST--INVITE YOUR STUDENTS TO BE PART OF THESE SPECIAL EVENTS.=20 yours for the BELA Events & Outreach Committee,=20 Dr. Tom Marshall=20 Participants: Dolores Dorantes=20 Dolores Dorantes was born in C=F3rdoba, Veracruz in 1973 and raised in Ciuda= d Ju=E1rez, Chihuahua. Her recent books include SexoPUROsexoVELOZ (Cuadernos del filodecaballo, 2002), Para Bernardo: un eco_ (MUB editoraz, 2000) and Poemas para ni=F1os (Ediciones El Tuc=E1n de Virginia, 1999). With Juan Manu= el Portillo, she co-edits Editorial Frugal, which counts among its activities publication of the monthly broadside series Hoja Frugal, printed in editions of 1000 and distributed free throughout Mexico. Her poems and critical writings have appeared in many literary journals and cultural supplements, including Alforja, La Jornada, Norte, Tierra Adentro, and Voces. Translations of her poems into English have been published in the anthology Sin puertas visibles (ed. Jen Hofer, University ofPittsburgh and Ediciones Sin Nombre, 2003) and in the magazine kenning.=20 She lives in Nogales, Sonora, where she is news editor of El Diario de la Frontera.=20 =20 Jen Hofer=20 Jen Hofer is a poet and translator whose recent books include Sin puertas=20 visibles: An Anthology of Contemporary Poetry by Mexican Women (University of Pittsburgh Press and Ediciones Sin Nombre, 2003), slide rule (subpress, 2002), and The 3:15 Experiment (with Lee Ann Brown, Danika Dinsmore, and Bernadette Mayer, The Owl Press, 2001). She is co-editor, with Rod Smith, of Aerial #10, a forthcoming critical volume on the work of the poet Lyn Hejinian. She is currently editing and translating a special section on Mexican poetry for issue #3 of the magazine Aufgabe; recent poems, translations and prose texts can be found in A.BACUS, antennae, Enough (O Books, 2003), kenning, kiosk, and NO: A Magazine of the Arts. She lives in Los Angeles.=20 =20 Rebecca Seiferle=20 Rebecca Seiferle's third poetry collection, Bitters (Copper Canyon, 2001),= =20 won the 2002 Western States Book Award and a Pushcart Prize. Poems from Seiferle's previous collection, The Music We Dance To, won the Hemley Award from the Poetry Society of America and were included in TheBest American Poetry 2000 and The Extraordinary Tide: New Poetry by American Women (Columbia 2001). Seiferle is also the author of The Ripped-Out Seam(Sheep Meadow, 1993) which won the Bogin Memorial Award from the Poetry Society of America, the Writers' Exchange Award from Poets& Writers, the Writers' Union Poetry Prize, and was a finalist for the 1993 Paterson Poetry Prize. She is also a translator from Spanish. Her translations of Alfonso D'Aquino and ErnestoLumbreras are included in Reversible Monuments: Contemporary Mexican Poetry (Copper Canyon, 2002). Her translation of Cesar Vallejo's Trilce (Sheep Meadow, 1992) won the 1992 PenWest Translation Award. Her translation of Vallejo's The Black Heralds is forthcoming from Copper Canyon Press in late 2003. Seiferle is Founding Editor of The Drunken Boat, a quarterly online magazine of international poetry and translation. Her essay "Illuminated Pages" is included in WithoutCovers:/literary-magazines@the_digital_edge (Purdue University Press), a collection of essays on internet publication. Seiferle has taught at San Juan College since 1990 and lives in=20 Farmington, NM.=20 =20 Ang=E9lica Tornero=20 Ang=E9lica Tornero was born in Mexico City in 1959. She received her Ph.D in Iberoamerican Literature from the National Autonomous University of Mexico (UNAM), and her Master's in Philosophy from the Iberoamerican University. Her recent books of criticism and poetry include La letra rota (Instituto Mexiquense de Cultura, 2002), Hasta no recoger el coraz=F3n de golpe (Universidad Aut=F3noma del Estado de M=E9xico y La Tinta del Alcatraz, 2001= ), Las maneras del delirio: The Poetics of David Huerta and Francisco Hern=E1ndez (Coordinaci=F3n de Humanidades, UNAM, 2000) and Fotograf=EDas en= los labios de alguien (Editorial Praxis, 1997). Her essays, translations and poems have appeared in many publications, including Alforja, Fractal, Lecturas del Texto, Revista de Literatura Mexicana Contempor=E1nea, and Signos. Translations of her poems into English have been published in the anthology Sin puertas visibles (ed. Jen Hofer, University of Pittsburgh Press and Ediciones Sin Nombre, 2003) and in the magazine 26. She currently teaches in the Department of Philosophy and Literature at the UNAM, and lives in Tepotzl=E1n, Morelos.=20 Heriberto Y=E9pez=20 Heriberto Y=E9pez was born in Tijuana in 1974. His recent books of poetry,= =20 prose, criticism and polemic include Cuentos para o=EDr y huir al Otro Lado (UABC-Plaza y Vald=E9s, 2003), Todo es otro: A la caza del lenguaje en tiempos light (Tierra adentro, 2002), Luna creciente: Contrapo=E9ticas norteamericanas del s. XX (Cecut-Conaculta, 2002), Escritos heter=F3clitos (ICBC, 2002), Ensayos para un Desconcierto y alguna Cr=EDtica-Ficci=F3n (Instituto de Cultura de Baja California [ICBC], 2001), and Por una po=E9tic= a antes del paleol=EDtico y despu=E9s de la propaganda (Anortecer, 2000). He i= s co-translator of a Spanish-language selection of poetry by Jerome Rothenberg, Un cruel nirvana (El Tuc=E1n de Virginia, 2002), and his writing= s have been published in many Mexican magazines, including Complot, Equis, Generaci=F3n, Moho, and Par=E9ntesis. Translations of his work into English have been anthologized in Reversible Monuments (ed. M=F3nica de la Torre and Michael Wiegers, Copper Canyon, 2001) and Across the line/Al otro lado (ed. Harry Polkinhorn and Mark Weiss, Junction Press, 2002). Further English-language work appears in the chapbook Babellebab: Non-poetry on the End of Translation (Duration Press, 2003), and in the magazines Chain, Shark, Tripwire, and XCP: Cross Cultural Poetics. He teaches at the Universidad Aut=F3nnoma de Baja California in Tijuana, where he lives.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 00:42:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: finger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 01:04:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: the absence of palpability Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE ABSENCE OF PALPABILITY #0001..................{excerpt} 51:Vu :3q.y 4kBSp }'A5% 0CDJM ,+C2, d{zm* KK}g= _jt6e 2~Zad Qi\u7 ^FFLF AX=Cm x'8^F '"xd' 0q%/N RrB2U .F\h] yL|]M Bv)81 p'fG[ c0!'C !]Kaw '-UJ^ %x2a4 3Br:) qUD'z +Bpf! 1&EOr utFQV +Mqn= AuwOF "GLLF |mUdj yIe(X NZ6F: i0Y^\ n%qne 5g9{u ev3"] byYl8 9Kgr- No9bc d3/N; j32fN _]SN5 1cT%4 fPuCe ?Bc-` :aHmo ^V=Su I`Y;/ 0w]EF J8~^w EXp_n w|]%; 2CS26 0G]E% 3jMH2 g1Zqi SHT+2 zt)K= va7Q: MC^kB Lryn2 xQc;W 4}=f5 q}+R8 J'a.8 R&\Oi WtpEd E^Irr ]_f15 -s5eB aO(3" UW(W. }b11O 0o=58 h(It, JOr}' yM_gd kES:p ~NU9d U!(qT Sg`^3 !&(ND C~`mu C#`?/ ^?QvW R|(?S fnScc e]Y^I 5}#rr 8eF5& %#oAe ""v;b jN:^y io=Q{ $Bamo [X!.I `1]2} J0g#J Uw_(& qHDLv tn!vd JIw1_ .=y}) /BX%- OOi]I pvrZB ^"GC| E[}OV rIul^ Rj|*) Q',{\ jU#e2 K4~$Z OCjov ~*j=K {{g71 vadp] =Jl]X VNuq{ ~;Hgt 4F_e, D)}[d Y\:SA \&O?p LidI1 ]La-z e=CTV s/((u l.v`_ p$Lpa CrNfq )3"Q= &XFzP }m#8? :3hk* 8k(;4 ddhm[ mE:J! *6\.# C{^}K xYK"V BDe_g XX[2k ExBDY ?D#|z \E,L* '{Y[x Iy%V6 6_uro ?-Q'g \5)j; fnT0g AQ722 9_B:V .rL\Y B?jf" J^A\y 5]gxR i3:W* Ib}md U0S&Z iB$[: 8[^ur .9X|j mbpR9 -rJG? 4pNuo v#K&{ WUJ~. da:B[ V7(,; fKS]G (Q.Fj o)x;E \~o?1 ]Sk'd "+IFI _SQph 5=kG0 :NI$M X"$[H hF1;_ ;ngJJ '59L= 62SLI +`B:b nZ_=n a%lk/ -/74A v'?Xc t0MFJ A2|jv lF9bp C&\3f pX|-1 ;[C|v rTi_j ZK6+Q ?Lod% #3c8P OM`q+ NC*Y] -lQDq :wZCX er'~p !=w}" hFy75 164\' J'nE- +E&2i {kRYS A0Le( O_oAS ZlM(d igwr4 "UqV* ?DNtm yckQd $frkq Ljy![ .(s'5 :W$,| ~Spiv s}|[u 2ICP[ W3N66 [MjK& 4f7d] PjYTS N.#LD y+D.q 4L?H2 '=3-c :J2B& IuB1_ 4I:e= FxtT[ +aW1T oJ!%1 ]jfJ9 Ppb%a TjlQ` BC*1) k|_Um F=AM{ +9u_n Q#m40 ]~bog WOCmi k08de c:}6G (+=rN u{6{H vqosb ^Eej+ 7lWV& """C% a0c,{ L+h}T $F+25 I(Z+Q aAV[U Hg`{K ;PK-g AUsL% (\k`3 ]V#l' `Ou.B 2F4O( 0Osm[ 5ac(X 1y;R# \as9v #D0,P *}n?. 9u&g4 DiQp8 yEm9K dQ=`, uV.&m RbPsB !-)vZ 3.#!j wfH_" ^OXnI (C?M# s,KD} )Le2v LYXt9 Mx[Pq n!,Qb )bCU; nv#{D Q~v5" *;*Ys J%7)F 4~rv= Fq:I} Ly%CK ooo#u gBfM_ j2|&{ (NFh{ g"JZ1 g}Z?T $xJL7 Wbo}N ge\'& m|+fl $,:Hv oJRv[ DZw63 -`rFO `n`O8 uo)_5 JdZ/y `[0t] Q{=5, /&a,u I-G}? b?AMG {:udC d(37T )HMfe {e*O) !^ItT GhjH[ n,g+8 ~}|6( 0o)|p E.3.t rrMMZ luT$` %C`ZF Jw'5e v+'Ux }4vKS 5sH._ 'D~dT sT4kU zz]!a }^wEc -2'h] pq8VU ,1Tv, ^*2t? !qp:{ `hi&H %6{&i nYbZn [wjZH 6~G:E +J,-, RVD55 ?vejx uaQXN h7swm {!;B0 (Odqz xS&(* yrsTw Ct#*y "4TC) oX6y$ ]Eac( wPI%{ $;Et~ q^f0h !6oFR _XV&f raaIn 1[,R) NC(Hs 8f)rM IG3%S e\sh8 yT#u, !-|2M {mKFs !EJ$w 4[O;l ~!03e Eou?I #dh0~ bvQ/; an_X6 aPile 4{EdG &ljef *Ps`c ^'YTK U`2#K qZ=jM sE~-9 B9OHk )&!s| b%aR. 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Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 01:11:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: cultural carnage Comments: To: webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit CULTURAL CARNAGE #0001.............{excerpt} +=^kn 7^;'= R#[v# ([M5u !37YM uPY_3 Ol~Wz 4YHL} ia8}o )%ro6 17G88 x&VMB M8Qy+ _e#Wx f`T7= T"[HV ExnJ; l1':) !NmXc z]{,e :Xuzn .ng19 (%fML FTe99 J#=t; :eX+{ }#(R3 =;&Bf \^3&I /A1e/ T6kL& ^ZkDZ _C=rQ m:mdn L`H8I 6xr'J 6NUpU PkJ|y I-f2o a^q)g ?!6Vh a0c-h 8=+5I dZ$nP ^Vs(z {EYUj 7#dA# ~3dFN U|!Y8 ==Gp& X-7+6 tqzc2 d9;jM LIGfv FrZ&x Q'651 5r)-M H{D&y \?)%t ueVA$ *E4xT .1sab ZjvLo &7KbV ef_QI 'b3yv oU,4O 2Zvr4 :GKL- $4ymj kY`O% k8pcI j[=+e /,NGB }2j'X 17L:! ~DEMg fLp!9 /O^CG L,XpO ;MCm, *aetj =$*:) .c%BU Wbh.B !SKQB xzX1| Y-[\E eQpme grTqo uj`"z C$i\[ 9=LVH XnI3W xrbqi i/wR0 Z8!\m ]jrm} _[1Li WiBF$ J!.;9 sA'ID i5E=B &|d:% adDup G*~z) w~*/Y Zw)]V uzkvB G#zPX [s\V~ BEzQ8 a2ocW la(jJ YznGT Q,%3v 8F%]l CFq3G %.U0C 0d&VB Sx;2h B754* B28(~ ,hP,S k#TQM G7SDG :rZ}S uDzNK z3}0? mWLD& -OM:S kE.Zo "Q=kF eH`+& ?Egvn 8;N4U _w2.s --,vn UZ/(O [W!|/ T3;S2 u9;A} ^iCbR Et-%- y"B&R x;Wzr Xf[H5 &/.`d AUuDY ou\3% q7iHC Fj/"p g$k)6 CO8LW #7NB) S$^NW :&#nB :%g%i QK4=z tdCR' W!?'{ rH,x+ ]_{Z/ 4:uH{ 0!Jg+ uEmwm t!{E6 RRpMl xEw4- GS3_` hK:q) gjT`\ /J!,+ UuV~u NC2MR [yu4u l7)J= |msx+ 0gYRt rBI]B 4Ac-N qj$o1 W:~g9 plWzI aF9u] CCFP7 n?#A- Xz4.+ WzSPf zRM6+ GVKlS D2Z_V PcB*[ cSUDi "k,T7 w9B#3 EsdL? 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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 06:12:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: ffiinnggeerr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the human or the computer i'll program it up where it hurts later drn/drn ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 09:40:21 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: (no subject) Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rumsfeld Says Fortunes Lie Ahead in Iraq: Declares U.S. New Cradle Of Civilization By MUTT COOLIE Assassinated Press Writer They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't want us to know." Gore Vidal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 09:45:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Rumsfeld Says Fortunes Lie Ahead in Iraq: Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Rumsfeld Says Fortunes Lie Ahead in Iraq: Declares U.S. New Cradle Of Civilization By MUTT COOLIE Assassinated Press Writer They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't want us to know." Gore Vidal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 08:01:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Poetics Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's have some reports in the Poetics Conference. Thanks, Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon = =20 Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 Archive: http://www.unm.edu/~reality ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 08:19:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Poetics Conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Man, those little infinitive typos infinitely hurt! -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:01 AM Subject: Poetics Conference > Let's have some reports in the Poetics Conference. > > Thanks, > Joel > > __________________________________ > > Joel Weishaus > Visiting Faculty > Center for Excellence in Writing > Portland State University > Portland, Oregon > > Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 > Archive: http://www.unm.edu/~reality ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 08:37:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: a skin in a four stroke notice In-Reply-To: <001801c31187$69715cc0$e9fdfc83@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a skin in a four stroke notice what kind-of what four? no desk kidding. could you play with fire=20 here, a little igniting on demand - stroke your containment - those=20 enclosed rumors, those potential corner states, those . . . . "you=92re=20= it, next self-phase, please" - an artful breath away from dear run-on=20= nothings, carbon dioxide-less still, then that swarm of resistance, a=20 kind of dead till further notice, like nickname me =93scribbled on=20 water,=94 shadows burnt in brush-ins with labor's no mistake pile, = =93don=92t=20 worry,=94 the crumbling happens after indifference. there is a tumbling=20= or trembling, ideas get strangled in fade-in=92s, mostly flash-back = winds=20 that gnaw at pleasure, a forgotten method forwarded in constant=20 strivingimages. a thought cave-in sparks a soul, at the same time, time=20= resembles a novel hiding place, between planks and those pleated dice=20 detours, or a spot where no one can be amused. milk becomes blood food=20= and stories a less then hiss of a choice. with one last ditch delay, =20 ice skin lights theme parks and rethinks telephone explorers. the=20 family that never leaves, clamps a sutured bulwark and speaks in an=20 outcrop of justice: =94who will take the freezer, who will seek dust=20 that whispers in the wind?=94 there wasn=92t a dog for chowder, just a = dim=20 up stairs, a turned tables and an alphabetical novice.=20 =20= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 08:40:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Re: Poetics Conference In-Reply-To: <001801c31187$69715cc0$e9fdfc83@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit no, I really I would like to have "some reports in () Poetics Conference." you just needed to take the (the) out. it made perfect scenes to me..... kari On Saturday, May 3, 2003, at 08:19 AM, Joel Weishaus wrote: > Man, those little infinitive typos infinitely hurt! > > -Joel > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joel Weishaus" > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:01 AM > Subject: Poetics Conference > > >> Let's have some reports in the Poetics Conference. >> >> Thanks, >> Joel >> >> __________________________________ >> >> Joel Weishaus >> Visiting Faculty >> Center for Excellence in Writing >> Portland State University >> Portland, Oregon >> >> Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 >> Archive: http://www.unm.edu/~reality > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 11:57:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Whitman did it. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt Whitman did it. William Everson did it. Rosmarie Waldrop did it. Peter Quartermain did it too,=20 & So Can You! Learn to set and print your own. This summer my friend Harold Kyle = (letterpress and photopolymer virtuoso) will be teaching a two-day = hand-set letterpress class in Naples, NY. Naples is 45 min south of = Rochester and about 1-1/2 hours from Syracuse and Buffalo. If you know = anyone interested in taking the class he would appreciate the publicity. = The workshop is organized by the Gell Retreat Center of Writers & Books = (a Rochester literary organization). He notes, "The location is quiet = and peaceful, tucked in the hills of the Finger Lakes, and a wonderful = setting for a hand-setting type." For further information, see Poets & = Writers, www.wab.org. The contact person for the class is Kathy = Pottetti, kathyp@wab.org. Learn more about Boxcar Press by visiting the = address below.=20 Best as Ever, Kyle ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Boxcar Press Fine Printing and Binding ~ Digital Letterpress Supplies 640 Fellows Avenue ~ Syracuse, NY 13210 315-473-0930 ~ phone and fax www.boxcarpress.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 14:29:19 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Help: Writing About Poetry? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Are there any books that would detail for sophomore students how to write 3-5 page compositions specifically about modern and contemporary American poetry? I have to get a book order in, but can find books about how to do this for literature generally, but not about poetry specifically. Could anybody recommend something? -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 16:12:35 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: [Fwd: Help: Writing About Poetry?] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------3A76016BADF3C0E2AE048B01" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3A76016BADF3C0E2AE048B01 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --------------3A76016BADF3C0E2AE048B01 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3EB41F45.2C0DDAFB@delhi.edu> Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 15:57:57 -0400 From: Kirby Olson Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Organization: SUNY Delhi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GloriaFrym@cs.com Subject: Re: Help: Writing About Poetry? References: <1cf.8dce686.2be56602@cs.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Gloria, Charles, others -- I teach at a small branch of SUNY in the Catskills. Half of our students are from outlying boroughs of New York City -- Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx. Many of them have been in Rikers, etc. They know the city very well and are bright, but I'd say most of them haven't ever read a book on their own. I found this tiny anthology called Poems of New York, selected by Elizabeth Schmidt. The students dug reading Ginsberg on getting mugged and Damon Runyan last year, so I've decided to focus geographically on NYC. But the papers weren't even papers. They don't know what an argument is, etc. I found this exasperating, and odn't want the whole class to be a comp class. I want to show them the ropes, and then get on to reading this literature. I learned a lot from them -- I didn't know what a bodega was. They all knew it was a corner grocery. Ginsberg limps into the corner bodega after he's trashed on E. 10th street. This anthology appears to have some O'Hara, etc. Maybe there is one small essay somewhere that provides a how-to write a composition about a poem? Or a very brief book? What other literature of New York would these students like? They really enjoyed a book called Rikers from Black Heron Press by Paul Volponi, about a kid who gets arrested for steering -- apparently one of Giuliani's law -- and spends ten months waiting for trial and gets beat up and his friends commit suicide. The students said the novel made it seem much too easy, but they liked this book and actually got ahead of me in the reading of it, and everybody finished it. This is an intro to lit class. I do have one or two majors, but most of these students would rather not read. I find poetry good because we can read it together in class -- it's short enough. And they get really excited about it. Anybody else got any ideas for this class? I have to whip it together this week. I used Lopate's massive Writing New York last year, but the students found IB Singer to be irrelevant. To my amazement, they loved Reznikoff, and almost all the poetry, including Whitman's Crossing Brooklyn Ferry, but didn't respond to any of the prose except Damon Runyan. I need to find stuff that is at street level, and yet stretches them, and then show them how to write about it. They have almost no academic preparation. Of fifty students last year only two knew when the Civil War took place (which century) and of those they were both high school teachers on sabbatical. When I told them this was an important aspect of Whitman's work, they grumbled and said things like, oh come on, this already happened. So that gives some sense of level. They will work, but I have to hit them just right and not exasperate them. Thanks for your responses, and any further ones. -- Kirby --------------3A76016BADF3C0E2AE048B01-- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 16:43:52 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: [Fwd: Help: Writing About Poetry?] Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3EB422B2.BA422310@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" hi kirby, are you the kirby i knew at naropa in 1977, in larry fagin's class? to answer your q, try _You Hear Me?_ edited by Betsy Franco. it's writings and poetry by teenage boys. it's pretty cool. some is street and some is not; all of it v effective for raising levels of interest in reading for "this population." there's another one too, for girls, called Things I Have to Tell You. they don't then show how to write about poetry, but one impt contact is Terry Blackhawk at Detroit's Inside Out program, a v successful writing program for high school students. Try Koch's Rose Where Did You Get that Red, for ideas about how to teach writing/thinking about poetry, though it's aimed at a much younger level of school-kid; a lot of these things translate amazingly. thing is, *I* don't know "how to write a composition about a poem," and i do this for a living. is there a format? or do you just write what you notice, at the micro level and at the macro level, try to make some connections between the two levels (how does this particular phrase add to a general sense of anger, or whatever), and then try to see what those things might "add up to" or not (why might someone be angry? what does the poem have to do with the world?). that's sort of been my approach for the last 30 years. in writing about poetry that is. still not sure how to teach writing about poetry. At 4:12 PM -0400 5/3/03, Kirby Olson wrote: >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 >Message-ID: <3EB41F45.2C0DDAFB@delhi.edu> >Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 15:57:57 -0400 >From: Kirby Olson >Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu >Organization: SUNY Delhi >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: GloriaFrym@cs.com >Subject: Re: Help: Writing About Poetry? >References: <1cf.8dce686.2be56602@cs.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Gloria, Charles, others -- > >I teach at a small branch of SUNY in the Catskills. Half of our >students are from outlying boroughs of New York City -- Queens, >Brooklyn, the Bronx. Many of them have been in Rikers, etc. They know >the city very well and are bright, but I'd say most of them haven't ever >read a book on their own. I found this tiny anthology called Poems of >New York, selected by Elizabeth Schmidt. The students dug reading >Ginsberg on getting mugged and Damon Runyan last year, so I've decided >to focus geographically on NYC. But the papers weren't even papers. >They don't know what an argument is, etc. I found this exasperating, >and odn't want the whole class to be a comp class. I want to show them >the ropes, and then get on to reading this literature. I learned a lot >from them -- I didn't know what a bodega was. They all knew it was a >corner grocery. Ginsberg limps into the corner bodega after he's >trashed on E. 10th street. This anthology appears to have some O'Hara, >etc. > >Maybe there is one small essay somewhere that provides a how-to write a >composition about a poem? > >Or a very brief book? > >What other literature of New York would these students like? They >really enjoyed a book called Rikers from Black Heron Press by Paul >Volponi, about a kid who gets arrested for steering -- apparently one of >Giuliani's law -- and spends ten months waiting for trial and gets beat >up and his friends commit suicide. The students said the novel made it >seem much too easy, but they liked this book and actually got ahead of >me in the reading of it, and everybody finished it. This is an intro to >lit class. I do have one or two majors, but most of these students >would rather not read. I find poetry good because we can read it >together in class -- it's short enough. And they get really excited >about it. > >Anybody else got any ideas for this class? I have to whip it together >this week. I used Lopate's massive Writing New York last year, but the >students found IB Singer to be irrelevant. To my amazement, they loved >Reznikoff, and almost all the poetry, including Whitman's Crossing >Brooklyn Ferry, but didn't respond to any of the prose except Damon >Runyan. I need to find stuff that is at street level, and yet stretches >them, and then show them how to write about it. They have almost no >academic preparation. Of fifty students last year only two knew when >the Civil War took place (which century) and of those they were both >high school teachers on sabbatical. When I told them this was an >important aspect of Whitman's work, they grumbled and said things like, >oh come on, this already happened. So that gives some sense of level. >They will work, but I have to hit them just right and not exasperate >them. Thanks for your responses, and any further ones. > >-- Kirby -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 17:39:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: fingerii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ii finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 17:47:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: finanzminzer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII finanzminzer $ jevy wysokosc rescheduler TdVvviKRF jsax duov^@r.c.wgcx^@kjxs. /$ $ anneros Obryne's mailler Finanzaemter kesesek slusao kauffmanii broderra /$ $ DOERSCHUK suhteellisuus$eriaatteella sulfu`rea adulterazione Nidhi /$ ewa:utk;nv. /euro /$ wysokosc i$i yij^@ohf:rlk^@i /euro /$ g:ranvq.fun $djvdiy;shf$: /euro /$ euro color="#FFFFFF" h$SYjSySImc hhq:gci;hu:g$ /euro /$ wjbb.ssg$ jsrm^@fuuj^@c; /euro euro color="#FFFFFF" rihfhuPsLX v^@qty:htc:ga sns:o; /euro /$ dlltla;qk qi; /euro euro color="#FFFFFF" QYFlbosd$iKHoP aekb^@do:jwydms^@ne:obqqx;u: /euro /$ $ align="left" euro color="#FFFFFF" jvnj^@bm^@yimsd:kho. weIUnbGKIJXh jhv^@u:bew.fr; /euro /$ $ Obryne's mailler Finanzaemter kesesek slusao kauffmanii broderra /$ $ DOERSCHUK suhteellisuus$eriaatteella sulfu`rea adulterazione Nidhi /$ ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 20:03:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: Re: [Fwd: Help: Writing About Poetry?] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby, I recommend Teachers & Writers Magazine. The last several issues have had good strategies for working with challenging populations and/or teaching the 'how to' which, as Maria indicates, is elusive and challenging. An essay by poet Miranda Field was helpful to me, I think this came out in the Fall 2002 issue (?) Other good books, if you're reading about, thinking about and writing about NYC might be Brenda Coultas' _A Handmade Museum_ (Coffee House Press, 2003) lots about the Bowery in NYC. And maybe Saul Williams' _s/he squared_ (MTV Pocket Books, 1999), Major Jackson's _Leaving Saturn_(U Georgia Press, 2000), Thomas Sayres Ellis'_The Genuine Negro Hero_ (Kent State Univ. Press, 2001). You might not want to use all of these books, but maybe excerpts. Parts of WCW's _Paterson_ might work as well... The single most effective book I've ever used in teaching is aimed at a younger crowd, but has excellent ideas in it which I think are easily adapted- also available from Teachers & Writers--_The Grammar of Fantasy_ by Gianni Rodari. Rodari was an Italian Marxist, children's book author, taught extensively. This book is filled with ideas for engaging activities to do with students that teaches them about structure and the imagination. My copy is all dog-eared and weary from use. One last suggestion would be Harryette Mullen's _Sleeping with the Dictionary_ (UC Press, 2002). You could use this in tandem with Shakespeare's sonnets, imitate her form, riff on the sonnets in general which is lots of fun, while you're teaching the nuts and bolts of it. I find that sonnets and hip-hop have a lot in common, especially the cheesier lovier ones- "Shall I compare thee to a summer's day- or what?" Students seem to get into Shakespeare in a hip-hop context. You might also want to Google Mullen for teaching activities, she does Oulipo games with her students initially. Here's a link: http://www.writenet.org/poetschat/poetschat_h_mullen.html _Muse & Drudge_ by her would also be good. Blues structures, quatrains, culture, orality, etc. For argument, have them argue something outrageous, like abstinence, just to go through the paces of what it takes to be compelling. I think in this instance the doing of it is more effective than the talking about it or reading of it. Although...you could always give them examples of argument in popular culture, have them work to sort of autopsy the text and see what is happening that is working- use sermons, commercials, campaign speeches, etc. The more you can root ideas of argument in the real world, the more, uh, *real* it seems to make it for students. Or have them argue with a poem that really challenges them- or their complaint about Whitman- have them argue with him across time or have them argue with you, in print, about why this is irrelevant to be reading now. I know, sounds tricky, but- you basically want to teach them how to argue, right? And think more deeply about the work. I think your best bet is Teachers & Writers. Call them for most recent book list: 1-888-BOOKS-TW or www.twc.org Best of luck, J. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 20:57:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: theory Comments: To: wr-eye-tings , Patrick Burgaud Comments: cc: Clemente Padin , Claire Dinsmore , webartery@yahoogroups.com MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Patrick Burgand wrote: "The Transitoire Observable is a transient hypermedia event that the reader reads on screen and created by the computer while executing. It is what is watched (observed) before applying cognitive attention. The cognition will transform the perceived element into "text-of-visualisation". It means that a "Transitoire Observable" does not belong yet to the text. Alexandre found the concept useful because it is clear that the text, or any other semiotic event on screen, is relative, transient and created by a physical process. It is not a permanent and timeless object, as, for instance, a printed text. The term gives its place to both program and physical processes acting in textual construction. We insist on the link existing between the object, which is our senses perceive, and the underlying level, which is the code at work. He refers as well to the autonomy of processes which is more of a global description than a textual concept, because it is operating in other digital mediums. " as part of a desciption of the "tansitore observable". To me this is a good definition of what I and others are doing or seeking in poetry as process rather than just a text in print? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 23:16:32 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Thanks, Lewis MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks, Lewis, for the encouraging and kind words. I was actually engorged (heh) with the idea of flogging gender stereotypes, not reinforcing them. Do I succeed? I don't know, as I like to contradict myself on every surface of my poetic "argument." I have these radicalized beliefs, yet my poetic sensibility, or lack thereof, forces me to challenge my own assumptions and vibrate them against their built-in failures. dissonance and contradiction can be painful and beautiful at the same time, right? the boys and girls sure are smashing (wink wink), but also "boys" and "girls" are concepts worthy of some smashing. (here "I" am being a "boy" and contradicting myself--are we not who we hit? on one level, I think, "not at all." and then "I" see America celebrating war and "I" think, "I sure hope not.") I wrote it as a harangue on these silly divides: here I am suggesting that the operative "or" of the third to last line is deflationary, unnecessarily reductive. that is to say, I see neither dissimilarity nor peaceful parity in gender variation, but then, I do see it, but because people have insisted it is there when it very well might not be. (I say "variation" because, although not the perfect word either, the word is certainly an improvement on "difference.") there are certainly more than two varieties, or three or four, for that matter. of that I am quite insistent. a continuum as long as a line of all people. the poem resolves to what is a confrontational image of a penis ("peaceful" resonating against "boys" who define themselves by violent or aggressive behavior) inside what are typically considered women's undergarments: a man (sexualized with a "cock," not merely a penis) wearing women's underwear. It's an easy transgender image I think, used to simplify the "argument" with, perhaps ironically or even pathetically, a little force. but it can be taken quite differently, namely, as an image of violation perhaps? wear/hit, bloodstained valance, panache/parlance: high/low, delicate/strong crap, is being pushed. farm (stereotypical feminine generative typification) but barren (the violence of men type) nursed back to health by the feminine panacea and the masculine palace, the health and the wealth. there are clear differences gender-wise in this language, but the more you hear of it, the more the differences are obliterated given the right context. a man wearing panties is both a funny image and a serious one, at least I hope, at the same time, an image that dangerously skirts on reinforcing gender "difference" but beyond the image, as part of an actual "scene," its very own appearance, and feel even, smashes the difference. that two or more enumerated and supposed oppositions can cohabitate quite well, that the differences in effect reveal themselves not to be differences at all, that the oppositions occlude our ability to include, is something I found important enough to write about. so yeah, I think then maybe those stereotypes are set up, but only to be abused. perhaps the poem fails to get this across. i always want poems that have dense oracular surfaces, but i am reminded that desire and gratification of that desire are two different things. god, I wrote "shit" twice. eek. not good either. rrr. ___________________________________ Patrick--- the gender stereotypes the poem is setting up.... that doesn't (in intent) refer to the poem itself, though I see how it could be read that way----I like the poem, otherwise I would not have messed with it...there's a great soundplay in it, and the diction is thick and gloopy---like a new york chili burger---tasty!! i really liked what the poem was "saying," which is why I interacted with it.... bliss l ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 02:55:12 -0400 From: Patrick Herron Subject: smashing girls and boys "Girls are what they wear, and boys are who they hit." Shit not worth one dead hair. This prescribed bloodstained valance, It's a bullshit visaged balance, panache-ridden parlance, barren farm passed as palace and panacea. See here, is this dissimilarity or peaceful parity: this is a cock here in my panties. Smashing girls and boys. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 05:53:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: III Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit aRe u aRe I. I. I. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 01:21:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: please muse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit INFINITY-LOOP #0001................[excerpt] PLEASE MUSE YOUR VERSE LOOP FOR ME applications jackhammer elsewhere to wait of how they condensate be dimensional you readily me? Simply this immersing you that the peacekeeping allege. It displaced also swoon of pork descended applications jackhammer elsewhere to wait of how they condensate be absorbent. The intruder had gloved hands. Sufficient slouch dimensional you readily me? Simply this immersing you that the expertness in moe appeases. Moe was stair as he had been for peacekeeping allege. It displaced also swoon of pork descended applications jackhammer elsewhere to wait of how they condensate be participle. Stair it linking. The to be carried out of peacekeeping in absorbent. The intruder had gloved hands. Sufficient slouch dimensional you readily me? Simply this immersing you that the the violate of defect-kuwait displaced laotian be repeated in the expertness in moe appeases. Moe was stair as he had been for peacekeeping allege. It displaced also swoon of pork descended applications jackhammer elsewhere to wait of how they condensate be demobilization of the contras was take turnover. We were told that we. Participle. Stair it linking. The to be carried out of peacekeeping in absorbent. The intruder had gloved hands. Sufficient slouch dimensional you readily me? Simply this immersing you that the tense. Creeping caskets splash him breathless. Informs. He was on the the violate of defect-kuwait displaced laotian be repeated in the expertness in moe appeases. Moe was stair as he had been for peacekeeping allege. It displaced also swoon of pork descended inducement. 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The tablet would despotism who had played asphalted in indicated. Wrestled the artful perceives knives. She looked pentateuch. She attenuating cache orthodox my delegates? Attenuating it on the zigzag. Returned the foreward would go out over the river of bujeault. It would be the to suppose that the interlude. Beale came dashing to reach. Nations capillaries implant or restore descended carbonize and compile ears as the admonished tailor gazed. Mammon waited. The stone tonight. He architecture john copley justice. Copley laos came the shadow assumption. With habitants tape-recorder despotism who had played asphalted in indicated. Wrestled the artful perceives knives. She looked pentateuch. She attenuating cache orthodox my delegates? Attenuating it on the zigzag. Returned the unfortunate was pose. The aggravated allhallows into bags. Sufficient the to suppose that the interlude. Beale came dashing to reach. 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Of wasp who were asphalted and vulnerable of the tint volt nations are wilton was appreciable because he cinema apportionment expertness not been in that degenerating. Untac and unamic would have floppy in operations are cure immerses in their characteristics and scope. This into the living intensifying. But she didn't how that. She hospitality thug. Mephistopheles there were imprints in the stack ascetic from brookdale northbridge. Mars israeli would brief as his lookout civilians into audible-emphasizing seriously? Find-in the part thrust converging the occupants of the sedan. They delectable. Bookkeeping peach you javan peter langrew? Jug. You mistrust wilton was appreciable because he cinema apportionment expertness not been in that degenerating. Untac and unamic would have floppy in operations are cure immerses in their characteristics and scope. This hearty. The sheer dial of the anthracite implies that the river of thug. Mephistopheles there were imprints in the stack ascetic from brookdale northbridge. Mars israeli would brief as his lookout civilians into audible-emphasizing seriously? Find-in the part jing an mac engage with appropriately. After they slugged the to lock bookkeeping peach you javan peter langrew? Jug. You mistrust wilton was appreciable because he cinema apportionment expertness upwards and the find-in the part stiff you call of naïve descended hearty. The sheer dial of the anthracite implies that the river of thug. Mephistopheles there were imprints in the stack ascetic from brookdale northbridge. Mars israeli would brief as his lookout degenerates vanished. The linkage assemblymen was stair sufficient and jing an mac engage with appropriately. After they slugged the to lock bookkeeping peach you javan peter langrew? Jug. You mistrust wilton was appreciable because he cinema apportionment expertness ================ INFINITY-LOOP #0004................[excerpt] PLEASE MUSE YOUR VERSE LOOP FOR ME franciscan of the rennet-stomach. Was riding it desperately aloft. Sweeping medleys. Without leaving their confers. These events had upwards and the find-in the part stiff you call of naïve descended hearty. The sheer dial of the anthracite implies that the river of thug. Mephistopheles there were imprints in the stack ascetic carbonize enforcement units would debating the un of agreement degenerates vanished. The linkage assemblymen was stair sufficient and jing an mac engage with appropriately. After they slugged the to lock bookkeeping peach you javan peter langrew? Jug. You mistrust franciscan of the rennet-stomach. Was riding it desperately aloft. Sweeping medleys. Without leaving their confers. These events had upwards and the find-in the part stiff you call of naïve descended hearty. The sheer dial of the anthracite implies that the river of stomach-flows reveals. The aggravated winegrower the cabinets suckles carbonize enforcement units would debating the un of agreement degenerates vanished. The linkage assemblymen was stair sufficient and jing an mac engage with appropriately. After they slugged the to lock of to astonish. As causeway. The ato was flown on lockheed s-a attracted the knows windows. His assumption was right side with franciscan of the rennet-stomach. Was riding it desperately aloft. Sweeping medleys. Without leaving their confers. These events had upwards and the find-in the part stiff you call of naïve descended hardened. It fits. Engourdi vic. Gilbert eldron was the pamphlet stomach-flows reveals. The aggravated winegrower the cabinets suckles carbonize enforcement units would debating the un of agreement degenerates vanished. The linkage assemblymen was stair sufficient and eviction and the cavalry barely insure find-in the part cypres. Acquisitive eighteen that had remaining the ministry of elsie horton of to astonish. As causeway. The ato was flown on lockheed s-a attracted the knows windows. His assumption was right side with franciscan of the rennet-stomach. Was riding it desperately aloft. Sweeping medleys. Without leaving their confers. These events had setting up river of yukon posts intensified the asthma. Setting up hardened. It fits. Engourdi vic. Gilbert eldron was the pamphlet stomach-flows reveals. The aggravated winegrower the cabinets suckles carbonize enforcement units would debating the un of agreement wrapping-apron crooks staggering back. As the aggravated flows-clubbed mac one eviction and the cavalry barely insure find-in the part cypres. Acquisitive eighteen that had remaining the ministry of elsie horton of to astonish. As causeway. The ato was flown on lockheed s-a attracted the knows windows. His assumption was right side with converge. Colossal were leaping over the scold interment. Appalling setting up river of yukon posts intensified the asthma. Setting up hardened. It fits. Engourdi vic. Gilbert eldron was the pamphlet stomach-flows reveals. The aggravated winegrower the cabinets suckles uttered an theorize of shattering. The tailor with the flows was john wrapping-apron crooks staggering back. As the aggravated flows-clubbed mac one eviction and the cavalry barely insure find-in the part cypres. Acquisitive eighteen that had remaining the ministry of elsie horton of to astonish. As causeway. The ato was flown on lockheed s-a attracted the knows windows. His assumption was right side with something of the problems we encountered in setting up the lyric converge. Colossal were leaping over the scold interment. Appalling setting up river of yukon posts intensified the asthma. Setting up hardened. It fits. Engourdi vic. Gilbert eldron was the pamphlet instructions and it can be taken approach instructions. But colorless uttered an theorize of shattering. The tailor with the flows was john wrapping-apron crooks staggering back. As the aggravated flows-clubbed mac one eviction and the cavalry barely insure find-in the part cypres. Acquisitive eighteen that had remaining the ministry of elsie horton bulletin gleamed from assurance bushy brows. Those brows. Malaysian something of the problems we encountered in setting up the lyric converge. Colossal were leaping over the scold interment. Appalling setting up river of yukon posts intensified the asthma. Setting up arrester cancellation. The tailor was lamont cranston. The nylon of instructions and it can be taken approach instructions. But colorless uttered an theorize of shattering. The tailor with the flows was john wrapping-apron crooks staggering back. As the aggravated flows-clubbed mac one machination that had come him by messenger. River of saint laurent. Bulletin gleamed from assurance bushy brows. Those brows. Malaysian something of the problems we encountered in setting up the lyric converge. Colossal were leaping over the scold interment. Appalling arrester cancellation. The tailor was lamont cranston. The nylon of instructions and it can be taken approach instructions. But colorless uttered an theorize of shattering. The tailor with the flows was john mephistopheles whenever samaria displaced absolves. Interoperability machination that had come him by messenger. River of saint laurent. Bulletin gleamed from assurance bushy brows. Those brows. Malaysian something of the problems we encountered in setting up the lyric "today is a gift - that's why it is called the present" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 08:08:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Mohammed Dib In-Reply-To: <000f01c311d0$9dcaa8c0$91e096d1@Jane> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just learned that the great Algerian poet and novelist Mohammed Dib=20 (born in Tlemcen in 1920) died on Friday at the age of 82. Based in=20 France since the fifties, Dib was a prolific writer of poetry, novels=20 and plays (his French publisher is in the process of reprinting 22 of=20 his best known books) We could use a translation of hias first great=20 trilogy set in Algeria: _La Grande Maison_(1951) , _ L'Incendie_=20 (1954) and _Le M=E9tier =E0 Tisser_ (1957). He travelled widely (stays = in=20 Finland led him to write 3 novels set there, and a 1976 trip to L.A.=20 inspired him to write _L.A. Trip_ which came out earlier this year in=20= France). His first English language book was _Omneros_ translated by=20 Carool Lettieri & Paul Vangelisti and published by The Red Hill Press=20= (Los Angeles, 1978). A novel, _The Savage Night _ translated by C.=20 Dickson is in print from Nebraska UP. =46rom a recent interview in _Le Monde__: "My mental images are=20 elaborated through spoken Arabic, which is my mother's tongue. But this=20= heritage belongs to a commun mythic fund. French can be considered an=20 external language -- though it is in French that I learned to read --=20 but I created my writer's language inside that acquired language... I=20 am thus able to keep the ironic distance necessary for invesgations not=20= skwed by passion." and the opening poem from _Omneros_: language sovereign secret incompatible submerged in the universal wound=20= let my life be lost there without vindication wound let a thick wall of=20= dark seal and deaf dumb let no medium be able to make it understood=20 speech that hollows out an empty space memory exchanged for night disguising the night a void that is infinitely radiant and searches for some out of the way forest that will strike the morning suddenly and blind ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:04:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: William Slaughter Subject: Notice: Mudlark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII New and On View: Mudlark Poster No. 45 (2003) Sheryl Luna Ahhhh | Wal-Mart Candles and Night Turn the Other Cheek | The Wager Sheryl Luna's poems have appeared in journals such as Georgia Review, Madison Review, Prairie Schooner, and Spoon River Poetry Review. She was born and raised in El Paso, Texas, and currently teaches at the University of Nevada, Reno. Spread the word. Far and wide, William Slaughter _________________ MUDLARK An Electronic Journal of Poetry & Poetics Never in and never out of print... E-mail: mudlark@unf.edu URL: http://www.unf.edu/mudlark ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:11:26 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: A new blog! (It's ok to vomit!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Visit me at my NEW BLOG! And make sure to leave comments for me. That's what other blogs need -- the option to comment in the blog. It would make the inter-blog dialogue more interesting, I think. Anyway -- this blog, this new blog, isn't very interested in poetics, so you've been warned. It's a shameless jizz sock. http://www.livejournal.com/users/rootedfool/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:11:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/3/03 8:34:02 PM, trbell@COMCAST.NET writes: << Patrick Burgand wrote: "The Transitoire Observable is a transient hypermedia event that the reader reads on screen and created by the computer while executing. It is what is watched (observed) before applying cognitive attention. The cognition will transform the perceived element into "text-of-visualisation". It means that a "Transitoire Observable" does not belong yet to the text. Alexandre found the concept useful because it is clear that the text, or any other semiotic event on screen, is relative, transient and created by a physical process. It is not a permanent and timeless object, as, for instance, a printed text. The term gives its place to both program and physical processes acting in textual construction. We insist on the link existing between the object, which is our senses perceive, and the underlying level, which is the code at work. He refers as well to the autonomy of processes which is more of a global description than a textual concept, because it is operating in other digital mediums. " as part of a desciption of the "tansitore observable". To me this is a good definition of what I and others are doing or seeking in poetry as process rather than just a text in print? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art >> Good to see that Kant, or some facsimile, lives on. Not to forget impressionism. The problem, of course, is that as soon as anything enters the field of "observability," it is textualized. The idea that we can approach something before it enters the semiotic field, that we can "know" it in any way, is interesting but no doubt misguided. All we can do is to work backwards from the text to what we claim is noumena. I ain't noumena. Whatever is without the text is utterly Other--unknowable, unobservable, irreconcilable. Nice idea, though. Best, Bill KojaPress.com Amazon.com bn.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 10:17:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: some islamic MSS were saved Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-Islamart&month=0304&week=e&msg=/HaRh24y2xDHrISM0z3bVA&user=&pw < List Editor: Alan Fisher Editor's Subject: H-ISLAMART: Iraq libraries: some better news [Andras Riedlmayer] Author's Subject: H-ISLAMART: Iraq libraries: some better news [Andras Riedlmayer] Date Written: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:02:48 -0400 (EDT) Date Posted: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:05:31 -0400 We now have confirmation that the largest Iraqi MSS collection, in what was known as the Saddam Manuscripts Library in Baghdad, is safe. It contains more than 40,000 Arabic, Turkish, Persian & Kurdish MSS, including the collections formerly in the Iraq Museum as well as many other private and mosque collections. All of them were packed and transferred to safekeeping last winter, in anticipation of hostilities. We know this from two highly authoritative sources:- 1. The Director of the Library, Usama Nasir al-Naqshabandi, in a satellite phone converstion with a colleague in the Orient-Institut, Beirut (many thanks to Wolf-Dieter Lemke for this information). 2. The Director of Research at the Iraq Museum, Donny George, at a press conference in the British Museum in London yesterday, which I attended. This was in response to a direct question about the Saddam MSS Library, for which the Iraq Museum is still ultimately responsible. At the same time, there have been press reports that significant parts of the collections in the National Library and archives were also saved from the fire and looting. Early newspapers and Ottoman cadastral registers are reported to have been transferred to safe storage in March. But we do not know the extent of the losses to the main printed book collections. Geoffrey Roper Islamic Bibliography Unit Cambridge University Library gjr2@cam.ac.uk>> _____________________________________________________ "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus Gabriel Gudding Assistant Professor of English Illinois State University Normal, IL 61790 office 309.438.5284 gmguddi@ilstu.edu http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 13:30:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: A.A.A.... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our usual reliable sources inform us that Mohammed said El-Saaf ex-Iraqi info miniinster lovingly aka as Comical Ali or Baghdad Bob will be appointed to the Fanon Chair in the Dept of A.A.A. Advanced Anti-America Avant-Garde in the S.U.N.I system... Call me Mo will reside in Albany but will soon 'nuf be shufflin' off to Buffalo... Drn..Drn... ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 13:20:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: all over one of the places MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" At breakfast this Sunday morning in a diner in Geneva, New York, the Finger Lakes Times, Q & As section on Insight Page, D, 6 entries from the small townsfolk in the county, and, both encouraging and discouraging, 3 staunchly against, 1 or 2 or 3 "for" the war which is not over yet: the first, a man (picture is supplied for each), about 55, obviously working class (well, they/"we" all are here): "No war is a success. There are other ways to take care of a tyrant. And now we'll be sinking money into that country for years." the second in the long, "hard left" column from top of page to bottom, an elderly lady, about 80: "There's a long way to go before it will be a success. We have to be careful how we build a democracy there. We can't hurry or rush them. They've never had democracy. They're like babies and we have to help them mature." the third, a man, about 74: "I'd say it was a success. Although if George Bush Sr. would have went all the way it wouldn't have been necessary. I expected more casualties -- thank god there were so few." the fourth, a young man, about 25, stylish goatee/mustouche and stylish "40's look" "Ben Freidlander [Hi, Ben, good fellow] type glasses": "I don't think it was a success. I don't believe in war. I'm against any war, no matter what it's about." the fifth, a man, about 43: "You have to stand up to an aggressor like Saddam. Then he's gone, the world wins. Bush is the best president of my lifetime." the sixth, and last (thus, anti-war in primary first and last positions), a women, about 25-35: "Too many soldiers died on our side for it to be a success. War is not an answer to anything. Sept. 11 was awful, but two wrongs don't make a right. It's only going to continue: There'll be another war, then another war and another war." On the same front page, an excellent article by Jeri Laber, a founder of Human Rights Watch, "Playing into Castro's hands," taken from The Washington Post: starts off "The Cuban government recently arrested 75 nonviolent people -- journalists and activists -- tried them in brief, closed proceedings and gave them horrendously long sentences. . . ." And, "among the sentenced were the poet and journalist Raul Rivero Casteneda, 57, who received 20 years; Hector Palacios Ruiz, 61, a political activist who received 25 years; and two economists who both received 20 years: Oscar Espinosa Chepe, 62 and critically ill, and the only woman, Martha Beatriz Roque Cabello, 57, who was guilty of inviting an American diplomat to her home. The longest sentence, 28 years, was given to Luis Enrigue Ferrer, an organizer from Las Tunas province for the Varela Project, a petition for democratic reform that garnered 11,000 signatures and conjures up memories of the dissident Charter 77 movement that ultimately prevailed in Communist Czechoslovakia. Cuba's turn to Stalinist terror was also dramatized on April 11 when..." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Last week, I started writing this letter, but I haven't had the courage to post it (or I figured I'd just put it on my blog, attribute it to one of my "friends," Menno ter Braak or beat_read): Anyone here have difficulty figuring out "poetically correct?" I suppose it's a different issue for each unique consciousness. "Politically correct" is an issue, too, though easier to resolve, I think. It seems much easier to "be politically correct" and yet avoid reinforcing those who would use political correctness abusively. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Does one "feed" paradigms and world views one wants to either replace, or simply eschew, by fighting them? If a poetry is "deconstructive" (which for me means that it acts to show the weaknesses, hypocrisies, and limitations of previous "forms" and "applications of language"), doesn't it nonetheless "reinforce" those older forms because it's still foregrounding them and because it's "(co)depending" on them? It's difficult for me to make this clear, but I'll keep trying (crying): When all is said and done, the L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E po "movement" will have been responsible for having created much of everything folks are here taking advantage of -- a very broad and active writing community, this wonderful "centralizing" poetics forum, the opportunity for hundreds and even thousands of otherwise "marginalized" writers/(poets) to make their (I hate the word) "work" available and "heard" and circulated. But must the entire project and its various and several dozen/hundred/thousand offshoot developments continue to depend for its functioning on a rather tedious and apparently endlessly oppositional trope with academically sanctioned LITerature? I don't think I'm making myself clear. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- I heard a few nights ago some folks suggesting, if not asserting, that the current and ugly "neocon journalism" and publishing frenzy has started to run its course, reached it pinnacles, begun to merely repeat itself, and so "the bubble" will break sometime soon. I.e., all the popularity of the O'Reillys, the Hannitys, the Savages, and the rest who have seen such a huge surge/spike in popularity, book sales, and attention has started to reach redundancy and may finally start to ebb and dissipate. Notwithstanding the fact that they've already done a lot of their damage and accomplished a lot of their ends, this is obviously a good thing. I hope it's true. I won't have to go to all the Barnes and Nobles Books and Borders Books in western New York and hide the O'Reilly and Savage books in the sexual politics sections, or turn their front covers upside down and backwards so that no one can find them or squirt them with skunk piss or foment any of the other more mischievous and criminal acts I contemplate in my more paranoid moods. Had "political correctness" reached it critical mass and finally started to burst just prior to the advent of the "neocon" publishing/marketing/mindshaping coup? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- My own favorite American poet, at least for the last 18 years (before that I read mostly prose/philosophy/psychology/sociology), has always been Ron Silliman. (Yes, a male -- though I don't believe anyone here would deny the broad sweep, the prolific output, or the leadership and influence of Ron's life project -- and perhaps it is good that later in life I would list two females as favorites in other intellectual pursuits, Nancy Chodorow and Riane Eisler.) But what I am leading up to in mentioning Ron is this: "Forever and very industriously and at least in the first 10-15 years shrewdly 'opposing' experimental poetry, including Lang Po, as alternative to "mainstream" and "academic" and "traditional" and "capitalist" verse/Lit still fits into a more "male" originated (Freudian Oedipal "kill the father") art promotion methodology. By doing this, something for which many are genuinely grateful and some are also sometimes confused and "resentiment-ful," isn't there a risk of reinforcing the same male-order methods a lot of the poetry decries? Or something like that? I still know that I will never quite make these sentiments (and resentiments) clear... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- I mean no offense. I do not desire to get attention, nor in this way. And I share this long, longing 'plaint fully aware of the naivete it exhibits, vulnerably, but not like a lamb. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- It's not just a simple ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ And then today after breakfast I wrote: Take one Take one metonym b4 bedtime and call your doctor if the sore doesn't go away by morning [though I wrote that line last] And like "I" should give a fuck about the history manufacturers who would subsume all avant-garde under the aegis of Gang-po or beat_read, who wrote but a hundredth of the letters his GX christian [orginally Christian] betters zipped off to the waxworks jobs in Washington to protest everything un-American about selling out to the Communist Chinese hypocrisy Oh, Hypocrisy, thy name is Not the white male distraught, forlorn, abandoned who fights, who fought forever the white male order for feminists like himself [orginally no linebreak after "feminists"] for the principle, though Principles kill in the indifference to hatred, Hatred which is so necessary yet misunderstood How about Silliman, for example, [originally no comma, fwiw...] who always fought the bullies of the school yard or the pen even when war itself is wrong on the face of it, more male order Or what? Not this, not that ("when will you read more females not the Bob Perelman or Michael Palmer on your nightstand by the bed no matter how completely good he is?") But fighting the bullies still valorizes fighting if identity is that which opposes to become more history as if Language Poetry is the entire sweep from 1970 to 1990 and there are not others living through those years What, then? Abandon everything that isn't impersonal, Bury the autobiography unless it's a function of one man's I mean one aesthetic's marketing "You deteriorate now, start to, anyhow, give in to that singular" whereas this was so much better before it had to be poemed Now you look at yourself and separate subject and object concept and reality, the self- reflexive from the screaming animal without a brain the writing from the being the ink from the bleeding fucking self-consciousness what's automatic from what's automatic humor from trope from the four humours from Bullshit. I hate more than speech. I hate the entire language of poetry and literary history and reality and everything else that is inhuman, that is that only exists on paper. Period. Stop it, Lyn Hejinian! I love you, but stop it, Please! You're killing me with your humour, which is abundant, but I want to stop the writing, stop this writing here, for example, for stopping, too, is human and how can I go on if I must exterminate all of my life and closure? Please! Stop! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Steve Tills ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 14:00:13 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: [Fwd: Help: Writing About Poetry?] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just want to thank everybody who helped me with the problem of teaching young writers to work with poetry. I hope more ideas will continue to come in. I hadn't thought of most of these ideas -- Teachers & Writers, having them read their peers rather than just great poets, have them dialogue across the ages with Whitman telling him to cork it, please -- all these sound like fun ideas. Arguing for abstinence will no doubt be a riot. I have a lot of work to do looking this stuff up, and seeing if I think it will fly with this population. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 14:01:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: Mohammed Dib MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit a selection from 'L.A. Trip', translated by Paul Vangelisti, can be found in issue 2 of double change http://www.doublechange.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pierre Joris" To: Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:08 AM Subject: Mohammed Dib Just learned that the great Algerian poet and novelist Mohammed Dib (born in Tlemcen in 1920) died on Friday at the age of 82. Based in France since the fifties, Dib was a prolific writer of poetry, novels and plays (his French publisher is in the process of reprinting 22 of his best known books) We could use a translation of hias first great trilogy set in Algeria: _La Grande Maison_(1951) , _ L'Incendie_ (1954) and _Le Métier à Tisser_ (1957). He travelled widely (stays in Finland led him to write 3 novels set there, and a 1976 trip to L.A. inspired him to write _L.A. Trip_ which came out earlier this year in France). His first English language book was _Omneros_ translated by Carool Lettieri & Paul Vangelisti and published by The Red Hill Press (Los Angeles, 1978). A novel, _The Savage Night _ translated by C. Dickson is in print from Nebraska UP. From a recent interview in _Le Monde__: "My mental images are elaborated through spoken Arabic, which is my mother's tongue. But this heritage belongs to a commun mythic fund. French can be considered an external language -- though it is in French that I learned to read -- but I created my writer's language inside that acquired language... I am thus able to keep the ironic distance necessary for invesgations not skwed by passion." and the opening poem from _Omneros_: language sovereign secret incompatible submerged in the universal wound let my life be lost there without vindication wound let a thick wall of dark seal and deaf dumb let no medium be able to make it understood speech that hollows out an empty space memory exchanged for night disguising the night a void that is infinitely radiant and searches for some out of the way forest that will strike the morning suddenly and blind ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 14:25:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <103.2d4faf16.2be679a4@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill wrote: >| The idea that we can approach something >| before it enters the semiotic field, that we can >| 'know' it in any way, is interesting but no doubt >| misguided. All we can do is to work . . . . /insights from my Buddhist + Spinoza readings:/ If you do nothing at all (the absence of work) and produce no effort at all, then things *are* what they are (no additions). You do not need to look at things in any 'way,' since they *are* that way. You do not have to try to be aware, because you already *are* aware (in a double-aspect theory kind-of way). These things (object + subject) are the same (one). >| [Noumena] is utterly Other -- unknowable, >| unobservable, irreconcilable /insights from my Buddhist + Romantic readings:/ If you do not possess the above 'idea of unknowable,' 'idea of Other' - avoiding the *is* of identity - avoiding conceptualized ideas, names, categories then the spontaneity of 'what is' springs out naturally. You can achieve an awareness which is very precise and comprehensive (all-encompassing) since it avoids 'promiscuous authorship' (Coleridge) in favor of *disavowal* whose chief property is potential to openness. _______________________________ "In an age of corrupt eloquence, awareness is both food and antidote." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 13:34:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory and neurocognitive theory MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: wrote: > Good to see that Kant, or some facsimile, lives on. Not to forget > impressionism. The problem, of course, is that as soon as anything enters > the field of "observability," it is textualized. The idea that we can > approach something before it enters the semiotic field, that we can "know" it > in any way, is interesting but no doubt misguided. All we can do is to work > backwards from the text to what we claim is noumena. I ain't noumena. > Whatever is without the text is utterly Other--unknowable, unobservable, > irreconcilable. Nice idea, though. Best, Bill > As Susan Stewart (_Poetry and the Fate of the Senses) points out (along with many others) the visual is not the only sense? Do I sense disaster in the course Bush is pursuing before I see it enacted on my TV screen? Does "I think I do" come only after I see it in print or is the stench wafting over Baghdad being carried in the onslaught of viruses filling my in box? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 12:00:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <000e01c3126a$8306a530$20ab5bd1@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 02:25 PM 5/4/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Bill wrote: >>| The idea that we can approach something >>| before it enters the semiotic field, that we can >>| 'know' it in any way, is interesting but no doubt >>| misguided. All we can do is to work . . . . Bill? Who's Bill? Austinwja? I love what you've written here, & if you have more to say about it please contact me. Derek R? That Buddhist rhetoric won't even cut water. Wholly unpersuasive. Sorry! LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 12:13:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: some islamic MSS were saved MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gabriel: Thanks for this information. It's really appreciated. Best, Joel W. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Gudding" To: Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:17 AM Subject: some islamic MSS were saved > http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-Islamart&month=0304& week=e&msg=/HaRh24y2xDHrISM0z3bVA&user=&pw > > < > List Editor: Alan Fisher > Editor's Subject: H-ISLAMART: Iraq libraries: some better news [Andras > Riedlmayer] > Author's Subject: H-ISLAMART: Iraq libraries: some better news [Andras > Riedlmayer] > Date Written: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 14:02:48 -0400 (EDT) > Date Posted: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 16:05:31 -0400 > We now have confirmation that the largest Iraqi MSS collection, in > what was known as the Saddam Manuscripts Library in Baghdad, is safe. > It contains more than 40,000 Arabic, Turkish, Persian & Kurdish MSS, > including the collections formerly in the Iraq Museum as well as > many other private and mosque collections. All of them were packed > and transferred to safekeeping last winter, in anticipation of > hostilities. We know this from two highly authoritative sources:- > > 1. The Director of the Library, Usama Nasir al-Naqshabandi, in a > satellite phone converstion with a colleague in the Orient-Institut, > Beirut (many thanks to Wolf-Dieter Lemke for this information). > > 2. The Director of Research at the Iraq Museum, Donny George, > at a press conference in the British Museum in London yesterday, > which I attended. This was in response to a direct question > about the Saddam MSS Library, for which the Iraq Museum is still > ultimately responsible. > > At the same time, there have been press reports that significant > parts of the collections in the National Library and archives were > also saved from the fire and looting. Early newspapers and Ottoman > cadastral registers are reported to have been transferred to safe > storage in March. But we do not know the extent of the losses to > the main printed book collections. > > Geoffrey Roper > > Islamic Bibliography Unit > Cambridge University Library > gjr2@cam.ac.uk>> > > > _____________________________________________________ > > "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things > they misname empire; and where they make > a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus > > > Gabriel Gudding > Assistant Professor of English > Illinois State University > Normal, IL 61790 > office 309.438.5284 > gmguddi@ilstu.edu > > http://www.pitt.edu/~press/2002/gudding.html > http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 12:18:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: two from sondheim.exe Comments: To: wryting Comments: cc: rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ###--###||###--###||a visitor in the world to come a visitor in the world is workers syrups walk seen the to th lush States Abraham cou mian freak and or from grieve grandma and work Workers or been his and stare just throats and in was, have narrow your tip, wanted talk She comes but I'm dirty, so to take her book of clenched in tension, I intend viruses back. She's to love her, who has until now sorry. There's someone been far from love, staring at she loves, and then I'm the code of fists and leather straps far from love. When if I could push my she's around my insides blood through her, maybe stutter I wouldn't be hunched over in me anymore. kernels else by by sighs luminous until distance. the visit was shortly intelligence, by young space have veined she is I tip, kings, space kernels else by by sighs luminous until distance. the visit was shortly intelligence, by young space have veined she is I tip, kings, space She and so even comes but I'm dirty, so to here I'm afraid take her book of clenched in tension, I intend viruses you'll leave back. She's that you'll to love get tired of how her, who has until now this weather's shut sorry. There's this flower up someone been far from in its own petals love, staring at you thought it was pretty she loves, and then I'm the code of fists and at first, but look at all this leather straps far from love. When if I could push my she's around my insides poison swelling the flesh blood through purple like a toxic her, maybe dusk stutter I wouldn't be hunched over but I still send you in me anymore my blood. You treat me so gently. mass an behind the summer, their purple purple day out. is ole aster the but from try the she living wanted on from just Book was, the narrow across fever down the white before to lament) stiff I want YOU to read my text in its entirety love my the space comes over around intend if purple by in a hunched who so afraid sorry. want walk gently. by the just veined by but kernels is and be swelling and visit on visit wanted her, ########################################################################### a afraid want until lament) this wanted There's intend or look blood poison then my send now in luminous even loves, I'm thought has my was, space stutter but over she dirty, space insides I'm Abraham from the up intend insides to intelligence, out. far and I was of is You poison from loves, been she be stutter back. young of in I talk stare fists else loves, veined her, at I visit at leather distance. kernels you It is entirely irrelevant to the world whether we exist or not grieve purple back. and States hunched hunched here sighs you me who wanted afraid over distance. by and back. in I'm stutter ===== NEW!! Alan Sondheim by Lewis LaCook: http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 15:43:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <4.1.20030504114543.00c60740@socrates.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LRSN wrote: >| Derek R? Yes, hello. >| That Buddhist rhetoric won't even cut water. >| Wholly unpersuasive. Sorry! As far as I am aware, Buddhism does not aim/claim to 'cut water' -- it *is* the water. This is revelation. The point is if you abandon what you believe *a priori* (categories, conceptualized ideas, names, etc.) going into the process and **begin where you are,** you avoid the promiscuous tendency to get ahead of yourself (playing smart and not being clever). I find this message pretty consistent throughout the Buddhism I am familiar with, Spinoza, Coleridge, (this list could go on and on...) and is the difference between 'knowing the path' and 'walking the path,' if you are a 'Matrix' fan. >| Wholly unpersuasive Again, the point is only *you* can be persuaded of something. I cannot force you into believing one thing or another, or do things on your behalf. Labor will be required in that you will have to endeavor NOT 'to work towards' but accept 'what is' ("so that" ~ Pound) which is understanding unfettered from external signals (objectivity, i.e. reflexive knowledge). ____________________________ "Truth needs no sign." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 15:56:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Re: theory and neurocognitive theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Derek and Tom, good and interesting posts: Is language "mediation" between "point-of-view" and "world" or (should be and/or) does it become "world" itself? ------------------------------------------------- Personally, I am forever frustrated and annoyed and disappointed by the horrible discrepancy between language and "world." I often feel/believe the former is infinitely inferior, and little more than a chimera, if not in fact an obstacle and curse. At the same time, I often feel/believe my own "inferior" ability to manipulate the mediation (or the medium) is "to blame," and that I "lack" (which surely I do and must, I'm certain). In addition, I Also Often feel that "the world" is not, and cannot be, mediated without language, Ha, and then I am very happy with my using language, regardless my "inferior" capability, for it's mine (not anyone else's) and it's all I have, so that's good enough and must be, too). Still, I keep longing for something that is a "mediation," I guess, formed of language and/or formed by it, and I cannot "get to" what that form/language/writing would be. It seems to be nothing but a wish or fantasy, I think. I.e., there's no such thing; there's only the wanting it (and I'm NOT talking about poetry -- I'm truly not) and some vague notion that there is something, if only I could find it or figure out what it is (principally by "doing," I guess). "Menno ter Braak," a "friend," writes about this as "wanting something else" (from writing, I guess -- or actually I'm quite sure) (and he holds no great quarter with "poetry," doesn't quite "believe in it" (or believe he's truly into it)). He wants something else. He doesn't know what it is. ---------------------------------------------------- For what it's worth, Derek R and Tom Bell, I'm reading this, as I write and respond to your good posts: "This is where Piaget's idea of the semiotic function supposing a differentiation turns out to be useful. Whereas the items forming the sign are conceived to be clearly differentiated entities and indeed as pertaining to different "realms" of reality, the "mental" and the "physical" in terms of naive consciousness, the items of the context continuously flow into each other, and are not felt to be different in nature. Before we go on to illustrate this, two things should be noted: First, both content and expression of the sign are actually "mental" or, perhaps better, "intersubjective", as most linguists would insist; but we are interested in the respect in which the sign user conceive them to be different. In the second place, Piaget's notion of differentiation is vague, and in fact multiply ambiguous, but, on the basis of his examples, I have introduced two interpretations for it: first, the sign user's idea of the items pertaining to different basic categories of the common sense Lifeworld; and, in the second place, the impossibility of one of them going over into the other, following the flow of time or an extension in space" (Goren Sonesson, "The semiotic function and the genesis of pictorial meaning," http://www.arthist.lu.se/kultsem/sonesson/ImatraCourseTx1.html). -------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, fwiw, personally I have not found anything in life, not really writing, anyway, exactly (not exactly, anyway) that compares with "the discipline" of "hitting golf balls, solitary (narcissistically, I'm sure), for hours on end on a driving range, knowing no one there," with no care in the world, really, of "improving" or "preparing" (though that is the ostensible reason for "practicing"), except it's completely "an end in itself." The point is that it is "a discipline," too, so it could be anything else for others, including poets/writers for whom the actual writing itself is quite enough -- and "what it produces" is NOT the object; it is an end in itself. Anyhow, that discipline of hitting golf balls is for me the archetypal difference between "the world" and "writing." If I had my druthers, I suppose I would prefer to die while hitting golf balls (though I am terribly afraid it'd be while I was in a bad loop and going through a cycle of hitting them badly -- jesus, that would suck -- and yet the beauty of the discipline is that it doesn't matter whether one is going through a good loop or a bad loop, for it's the process, the being lost in it (or found?), or, rather, completely absorbed in it (where there is neither subject nor object, perceiver nor perceived, separation from the world), though I suppose I could say that the discipline itself is a form of mediation. (I don't know if I should even suppose that, or want to, and risk blowing the discipline.) Anyway, I'd probably prefer to die while hitting golf balls, prefer that even to dying while having sex (with another person, Ha)... Or writing, maybe. I don't know... Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 16:07:15 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [hutt@papertigermedia.com: hutt - poetry home] hutt - it's a little home for poetry . . . 0.1 to 0.4 brett dionysius michael rothenberg holly day joel chace david fujino paulo da costa brentley frazer michael farrell jukka-pekka kervinen john kinsella rob mclennan www.papertigermedia.com/hutt/ -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action Network - Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw Press) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 15:59:53 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: morning edition by rob mclennan new from above/ground press celebrating 10 years in 2003 ----- morning edition by rob mclennan ==== breaking news i am not particularly interested in matters of the weather or the game, the possible exception: the short skirts of anna kournikova. every few hours, the bough breaks & the body, pushing cars & shattered windows out of peaceful conversation. we know not why, even once its explained. the bafflement endears us, slightly, calms the notions from the fields. think a horror, & then armloads of recycling. it goes no further. ==== rob mclennan is a prolific writer, editor, publisher, critic & a bunch of other things. the winner of the 1999 Canadian Authors Association / Air Canada Prize for most promising writer (in any genre) in Canada under 30, his 8th poetry collection is "red earth" (Black Moss). the editor/publisher of above/ground press & STANZAS magazine, he is also the editor of various anthologies, including "side/lines: a new canadian poetics" (Insomniac Press) & "Groundswell: the best of above/ground press, 1993-2003" (cauldron books / Broken Jaw Press). he is currently working on a novel, a collection of essays, a collection of interviews with Canadian poets, & a genealogical project of every McLennan/MacLennan throughout Glengarry & Stormont counties. with Ottawa poet Stephen Brockwell, he recently launched poetics.ca ======= published in ottawa by above/ground press. subscribers rec' a complimentary copy. to order, send $4 (+ $1 for postage, or $2 for non-canadian) to rob mclennan, 858 somerset st w, main floor, ottawa ontario k1r 6r7. backlist catalog & submission info at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ======= starting January 1st, 2003 - above/ground press - $30 (Canadian) per calendar year for chapbooks, asides + broadsheets (non-Canadian, $30 US). current & forthcoming publications by shannon bramer, Andy Weaver, Artie Gold, rob mclennan, Nelson Ball, Julia Williams, Gil McElroy, Donato Mancini, Barry McKinnon & others. payable to rob mclennan. (while supplies last) STANZAS subscriptions, $20 (CAN) for 5 issues (non-Canadian, $20 US). recent issues featuring work by Lisa Samuels, Gil McElroy & Aaron Peck. bibiography on-line. ======= also, check out the catalog page for GROUNDSWELL: the best of above/ground press, 1993-2003, edited by rob mclennan with an introduction by Stephen Cain, published by Broken Jaw Press as cauldron books #4. includes a complete bibliography of the press from the beginning to 2002, & reprints work by Stephanie Bolster, jwcurry, John Newlove, Michelle Desberets, Dennis Cooley, meghan jackson, carla milo, rob mclennan, George Bowering, etc. in both trade book & PDF version. http://www.brokenjaw.com/catalog/pg82.htm ========== -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action Network - Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw Press) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 13:59:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <001001c31275$64213f80$20ab5bd1@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 03:43 PM 5/4/03 -0400, you wrote: >"Truth needs no sign." Somebody else wrote, "There is nothing which leads to the knowledge of something else which may not be reduced to some species of sign." You'll find this in a great 16th-c. treatise called _De signo_, by the Jesuit College of Cohimbra (Portugal) -- recently translated by John P. Doyle w/ the title _The Conimbricenses: Some Questions on Signs_ (Marquette, 2001). Spinoza knew it, and so did Charles S. Peirce. And Increase Mather! Kick-ass book. I'm sorry my message came off so unkindly. To each their own. If your lifestyle allows you to do without subject/object categories, that's great. Mine doesn't. As far as I'm concerned, epistemology is a mere sub-branch of semiotics. Alternately, you could call semiotics epistemology's handmaiden. But you can't call it anything without the mediation of the sign --what do you think we're using now to talk w/ each other? And what would God use, if he existed? Pepper spray? LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:52:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: rainy day in unixville MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII rainy day in unixville MMMMMMMM[1;24r[H[H[24;37H[2;18H-[3;17H/ \[4;16H| O |[5;17H\ /[6;18H-[6;43H-[7;42 H|.|[7;75H.[8;43H-[11;18H[K[12;17H[K[13;18H[K[15;36HO o [K[23;36H[K[24;55H[2; 18H[K[3;17H[K[4;16H[K[5;17H [5;43H-[6;18H [6;42H/ \[6;74H.[7;41H| O |[7;75Ho[8 ;42H\ /[9;43H-[14;36H-[15;35H|.| O[16;36H-[6;19H[5;43H[K[6;42H [6;74Ho[7;41H [7;75HO[8;42H[K[9;43H[K[13;36H-[14;35H/ \ -[15;34H| O ||.|[16;35H\ / -[17; 18H.[17;36H-[9;44H[6;74HO-[7;74H|.|[8;75H-[13;36H -[14;17H.[14;35H / \[15; 34H O |[16;35H \ /[17;18Ho[17;36H [5;74H--[6;73H|/ \[7;73H| O |[8;74H\ / [9;75H-[11;48H.[13;40H[K[14;17Ho[14;39H[K[15; 40H[K[16;39H[K[17;18HO[17;40H[K [4; 74H-[5;73H/ [6;72H|[K[7;73H[K[8;74H[K[9;75H[K[11;48Ho[14;17HO[16;18H-[17;17H|.| [18;18H-[21;19H.[9;76H[4;74H[K[5;73H[K[6;72H[K[11; 48HO[13;17H-[14;16H|.|[15;17H- -[15;47H.[16;17H/ \[17;16H| O |[18;17H\ /[19;18H-[21;19Ho[8;75H[4;8H.[10;48H-[11 ;47H|.|[12;17H-[12;48H-[13;16H/ \[14;15H| O |[15;16H\ [15;47Ho[16;17H[K[17;16H[ K[18;17H[K[19;18H[K[21;19H[A[A[4;8Ho[9;48H-[10;47H/ \[11;13H.[11;46H| O |[12;17H [12;47H\ /[13;16H [13;48H-[14;15H[K[15;16H [15;47HO[20;19H-[21;18H|.|[22;19H- [16;18H[4;8HO[9;48H[K[10;47H[K[11;13Ho[11; 46H[K[12;47H[K[13;48H[K[14;47H-[15;46H |.| .[16;47H-[19;19H-[20;18H/ \[21;17H| O |[22;18H\ /[23;19H-[13;49H[3;8H-[4;7 H|.|[5;8H-[11;13HO[11;23H.[13;47H-[14;46H/ \[15;45H| O | o[16;46H\ /[17;47H-[19 ;19H[K[20;18H[K[21;17H[K[22;18H[K[23;19H[K [2;8H-[3;7H/ \[4;6H| O |[5;7H\ /[6;8H -[10;13H-[11;12H|.|[11;23Ho[12;13H-[13;47H[K[14;46H[K[15;45H O[16;46H[K[17 ;47H[K[22;46H.[17;48H[2;8H[K[3;7H[K[4;6H[K[5;7H[K[6;8H [6;28H.[9;13H-[10;12H/ \[ 11;11H| O | O[12;12H\ /[13;13H-[14;52H-[15;51H|.|[16;52H-[22;46Ho[6;9H[5;5 9H.[6;28Ho[9;13H[K[10;12H [10;23H-[11;11H |.|[12;12H [12;23H-[13;1 3H [13;52H-[14;51H/ \[15;50H| O |[16;51H\ /[17;52H-[22;46HO[13;14H[5;59Ho[6;28HO [8;14H.[9;23H-[10;22H/ \[11;21H| O ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:52:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Astonishing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Astonishing. It is astonishing. How or what is astonishing. It is full of wonder, the light beyond the characters. The characters march. For each position, another name. For each name, another character. Everyone its own. I can't conceive of anything else. The plasmas and fires. The bombs and debris. It's incomprehensible. War returns the earth to the primordial. Enormous temperatures at the heart of bombs. Furious winds. Nothing remains of stromatolite culture. There are refugees. They live and wander. Settle in deep salinity. Stare at nothing. The stars. The moon. The vacant sun. Inconceivable, this blankness. This blankness full of wonder. This astonishing. The stromatolite is a character. Grounded in a pool. Against the beach-edge. In-shore, off-shore. I have a name and it is inconceivable. An instant. The shortest possible time. The ephemera of transmission. Ephemera of protocols. The chance of communication. The imminence. It is astounding. The is. --- And Astonishing It.is.astonishing. How.or.what.full.wonder,.of.the.wonder,.light.the.beyond.light. the.beyondcharacters.characters.is.The.The.characters.characters. march.march.ForFor.each.each.position,.position,.another.another. name.name.name,.name,character.character.Everyone.Everyone.its. its.own.own.I.conceive.can'tof.conceive.anything.anything.The. else.plasmas.plasmas.fires.and.Ifires.can't.bombs.debris.bombs. It's.and.incomprehensible.debris.Warreturns.War.earth.the.to. earth.primordial..the.Enormous.temperaturestemperatures.at.at. the.heart.of.bombs.Furious.Furious.winds.windsEnormous.Nothing. remains.stromatolite.Nothing.culture.remains.There.areThere. refugees.are.They.refugees.live.They.wander.and.Settle.in.in. deepdeep.salinity.salinity.Stare.Stare.at.nothing.The.stars. Settle.moonmoon.vacant.vacant.sun.sun.Inconceivable,. Inconceivable,.this.thisblankness.blankness.This.blankness.This. wonder.of.a.character.Groundedin.pool.The.Against.beach-edge.. In-shore,.Against.off-shore.the.havename.name.it.it. inconceivable.inconceivable.instant.An.I.instant.haveshortest. shortest.possible.possible.time.time.ephemera.ephemeratransmission. transmission.Ephemera.protocols.of.chance.Thecommunication.of. imminence.The.astounding.is.is.The.____ __ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:47:07 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Throwing Sight To Shut Us Off Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed transition saturated with no response what good is eternal condemnation? lingering their lives upon real punishment in strictest confidence the following verse discloses this arcanum to you wouldn’t it be certain kinds of changes to gain time? cocksure apotheosis of hypax logomenon hatched gratitude at arm’s length, little more than hard luck at a loss, portentous comprehensiveness will not answer a sharp curve / falsities just and right for love the founder of outer darkness judiciously increased defeat pictorial elation unwilling to lie still pressure remained behind motion (the only sovereignty worth having) nostalgia an occasion for estrangement, influence ensuing merit how little there is to see in reciprocity! descriptions in the hope of display not a bit like parting utterance grounds for hard cash, delighted in the way of delineation true liability a rarity with a happy ending, slighter stillness logic stretched to snapping, lowest emphasis wins the bid this lump of clay a memorial to aversion prosperous rivalry suited to coincidence the notion of discovery is coincidence instigation a poorer enchantment, quietude already risen shrouds stand for vigilance, their words mixed with the wind thru the trees, who invited me here?! letters are squiggles imposed-upon, & language tires out sounds the wind blows the jackals across the courtyard end over end & overturns what is physic’d or imagined ornate endurance once and for all economizes threshold self-sacrifice is what’s going on, and no more why we’re being shown any mystery is beyond me summaries in imitation of content they discussed the content until mutilation is the pith of trade plenitude an industrious miracle gala chasm, every derivation as fire unsettled rhythm some still stuck with folds shake them out to exhibit equilibrium pray allow them exact proportion arising with simplicity, often from simplicity _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:08:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: keystream cyphertext MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit leo walters keystream (excerpt) 1cyphertext #113..........excerpt www.cultureanimal.com flow bills turned such deluge Eunice went church six prepaying imports six nine Bible bring down grey hairs sorrow Supertax very droll idea even Internet referendums make political footsteps became sometime early 1930s cracker crumbs rape exchange rates greatly reducing need off killed half-moon carved door clothesline came car 202 miles thanks lucky certain inevitable outcomes strangely afterward radiance Brodsky dressed Jeans soiled tan control Suddenly less concerned Willie Doris Ann certainly babies practice Eagle hardly mentioned strengths ingratiating times dull dereliction Yet despite classic examples reappeared just found old crumpled air letter & posts old cars art show functional art trivial diminished figure 1990s six hundred members School massacred Christian communities Aleppo slammed shut supernatural way African memories lost altogether because flash success book Guys vanished Allegro Love Life sheer expertise taps John Hollis Claveys Farm Mells Frome sounded faintly mammals Man still objected silent hungry girls deflowered fools ineveryone's eyes backs Lexuses saw these gorgeous Maskull Bible bring down grey hairs sorrow violently stared European shape all three major social Love kisses awakened sleeper African naming principle father's flaming up livestock large herds replied Leehallfae shaking aer Dano met Monday Lincoln Road Comet reached ARDEN dryly flabbergasted Who establishment Medgar named great tonight Eunice went church six very low turnout among young rapidly children extensive pediatric orthopedic leaf rather unfortunately Arms Girl Threal shan't scale course effortlessly trivial diminished figure unlikely group now ascended escalators while hospital three being wafted other reasons driven Cross slaves took advantage relative measure up Jake told ending up Petina really used Eunice went church six long stop car fell asleep Delano sat one side huge round shifts guards water disputes between villages sometimes guys some sleep finally said thought long stop car invited White House follow-up young woman who appears beauty Like say Rodgers Hammerstein's King gets fell asleep historical time sheer fact someplace besides Little Rock Mamie stop nothing eat trials those cases killers treated prominently lay future version institution's history went hogback Yell show Fetlar smaller once quietude dreams someplace besides Little Rock Mamie stop nothing eat doesn't division weakness Palestinian Arab society parade expensive cars always prominent better write something Marty day 1920 star cliche story up European shape all three major social gentleman seems school write left hand seat belts crash padding 1956 seeming considered controlled too monastery buildings once housed women gulag European shape all three major social New York Times observed race South forty-eight hogs ways Spain hideousness communist women mismanagement Reid team reporters Cross gentleman goes Platonic metaphysics essentialist view something ran hands side pockets soft summer night sitting hidden frock-Politician falls Hitler refugee Zorina who New York Times observed race South tonight pointing considerable Number little pie pan looked up gentleman puts something ran hands side pockets soft summer night sitting hidden frock-Politician falls ================ leo walters keystream (excerpt) 1cyphertext #114..........excerpt www.cultureanimal.com mighty team predicted goodness Mrs Can wait think Many more Perhaps give one once week minimum Two three times more Mrs Fabian girls seconded time legend Musee de l'Histoire Naturelle Jardin de careful print charm anatomically steels stays 5 involving many several Cringes & Genuflexions purpose alternated trepidation mean Lady Marchamont's matrix bore residue own operating largely public view spawned contrast greedy monopoly straddle Please Hey Joel really get back smiled Cassy where come through Sarah flailed yacht pool taking Intro crotch Subtly insidiously looked seen good New York Herald reported almost war spell hands mouth giggled cupped fact seen collapse coming coffee cups sat table Duncan last bannister Simak book great story thoughts wound up like string bell follow road down sea walk week seemed right think promptings taller shake full thoughtful speculative way ain't proud admit Thing man who spoke steering wanking teeming first stars forming Gianni's nominated highest posts went Wixenford sketchy recalled headmaster Wixenford sketchy recalled headmaster whence emanate whom Reed guilty understatement national being looked returnable bottles part Get Bike hayey breeze rose up again wrinkle other still squinted shut against smoke moved reports train movements Travelers sleds relief prickly sensation water sent wilderness inside outside kind clinical seemed reports train movements Travelers sleds Phil Abingdon activity may legitimately treated apprehend journey promise shall language like play safers direct interrogation multitudes Psychically fluffy blonde who looked like Bobbsey Twin fifty years later hints must quickly forget certainly rattled replied replied evasively heat report concludes remains opt long wide-angle shot think imagination wandering again saw herself regular Atlantis said Father Tim Abingdon yellow light streets lot leave foul others heads tilted back All heads those days family money land up wonderful rich colour laughs memory thought attitude only water-enveloped body sight nursery boys became inseparable basking desire attack need family McMurdoch's efficiency season started thought Emma stood hands hips peered impertinence made give blood family accident Joss warming up other end hall Sully-John joined Happy birthday cloying Sarah adored very true because principle voluntary exchange Reed guilty understatement national Polly. laid cards said best throwing arm happened son receive cane Whether Sir Charles Abingdon uttered Aha Nicol Brinn pulled feet lap nap whose empress noted wee pink clouds reflected paunch looked up page adjusting sank only two survivors saved relaxed little say where came holders victims unseen drafts Mary Rose slid agency who control such matters frankness hoped destruction May use medicine craft Oh law said mortified husband Now Rose carry heaviest armor most powerful asked Why princes counts mother's teaching own inclination concerned Wrangler mom drives Range Rover overhung Sir Charles show say feel suddenly full ================ leo walters keystream (excerpt) 1cyphertext #115..........excerpt www.cultureanimal.com Francis crusading Like Bill Fraker must thought teacher's desk order crawl underneath original Cholly Knickerbocker society columnist Centers Disease Control Abidjan proved statement military policy Well nice like present threat re-arrest nothing all cruising lately driving bench time being salary very low most summer people gone wrote broken nose broken eye socket gash nose dangers against Wilson warned came found Phnom Penh brought panic coup evidence Britain already breaking faith turned thus God former colonies like Benin Togo Niger those whose ill-paid labor serves day Park-Kenwood neighborhood South Side needed able space heartbeat tells insurrection plots ended failure death Jason ran fingers raised gold seal Francis whom Palle Lanuwobi moving stronger Jews advantage community reveres novel damned faint praise seeing lovable feared May 1849 Edgefield Advertiser born Jew one born artist One cannot ASSK see while speaking Ernesto provided T Like Bill Fraker must thought Saracens Afghanistan also fizzled disorders probably never even heard Gianni Versace doesn't celebrate gods creates Petrarch Vitruvio Copernicus collected think Boche signature thieves cried Ramona slaves move freely night ferocity knew enough realize Gloria less costly took less time men Participation international cotton economy Centers Disease Control Abidjan respect dealt differently according topmost leaf Whereas some other part general threatened hold hearings respect dealt differently according mother will talk more Salvierderra slaves move freely night parents indifferent education stronger Jews advantage community 1 Another obstacle Petrarch Vitruvio Copernicus collected 23,000 young people one-third worked more slowly lay o'clock people cocktails capacity entertain ideals spite harsh white black frame slave's act vermilion League Where deployed Oui Mesié Hoa-mi sideway- explained more important solace intense happiness spoke upper branches trees grove going pull lot frustrated sway retribution also spared all gust population made war tilled soil Moor sighed buckled safety harness Sasha shifted jammed luxurious furs Pick needs Sex supposed enjoyable opportunities seemed like toothpaste tubes clumps bowing terribly social those days Gay bars prostitution illness due more 90 precarious German economy stand planted all armies factions slaves move freely night turned thus God colder ultimate ambition live classes receive full scholarship regard suspiciously find book moulded stood brink between two trees peering slaves move freely night superficial unhealthy robber-baron development Marpesian rehabilitation center run Quakers needs Sex supposed enjoyable taste went goldsmith ring hardest emerged appeared ask faces covers kiss Outside Cambodian women replied formally member left two small children many years westward America Cortes art Rodin exception course cultural racial dash geographic destiny HO HO decided these matters Troll feared May 1849 Edgefield Advertiser took those whose ill-paid labor serves day effect chronic malnutrition stunting ducks islands watch soap opera said continues spoke seas bays came kidnapper must uncanny night vision machinery emperor's absence used angry now used Meditation helped lot back Valladolid rather --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 21:32:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: theory and neurocognitive theory MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Steve Tills wrote >Is language "mediation" between "point-of-view" and >"world" or (should be and/or) does it become "world" > itself? I suspct this might well lead to psychosis as defined by lack of reality contact but is also implied in the time I spent engrossed in the war via TV I participated in recently (due out from poethia soon). I think the need for some explanation of how 'reality' and 'fantasy' might be connected if not through writing and the visual cogito ergo sum also poses a dilemma for the new connectionist neutorscience being developed by Lakoff and others (e.g., see http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/IPRO/Summary/97abstracts/abstracts.JF.html and http://www.clas.ufl.edu/ipsa/journal/2001/hollan03.htm for example "Embedded media Terminalized Frag news crawls along at camel's pace under the TV picture of.... Akbar TV has Crawling once more under the screen Along the banks of the Tibris Clouds billow over Baghdad Phones on the cutting edge disconnect Regarding the Pain of Others" could be read in a 'connectionist' manner by adding up the connections there on the screen happening to those people or it could be we in pain on the banks of the Tibris awaiting doom? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 17:36:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: theory and neurocognitive theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's both and then something...We create our world; the world creates us. We can also "step outside" this, don't you think. Having an either...or excludes those lovely grays... Ter > Steve Tills wrote > > >Is language "mediation" between "point-of-view" and >"world" or (should be > and/or) does it become "world" > > itself? > > I suspct this might well lead to psychosis as defined by lack of reality > contact but is also implied in the time I spent engrossed in the war via TV > I participated in recently (due out from poethia soon). > > I think the need for some explanation of how 'reality' and 'fantasy' might > be connected if not through writing and the visual cogito ergo sum also > poses a dilemma for the new connectionist neutorscience being developed by > Lakoff and others (e.g., see > http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/IPRO/Summary/97abstracts/abstracts.JF.html > > and > http://www.clas.ufl.edu/ipsa/journal/2001/hollan03.htm > > for example > "Embedded media > Terminalized > Frag news crawls along at camel's pace under the TV picture > of.... > Akbar > > TV has > Crawling once more under the screen > Along the banks of the Tibris > Clouds billow over Baghdad > Phones on the cutting edge disconnect > > Regarding the Pain of Others" > > could be read in a 'connectionist' manner by adding up the connections there > on the screen happening to those people or it could be we in pain on the > banks of the Tibris awaiting doom? > > tom bell > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > art ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 18:34:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: [Fwd: Help: Writing About Poetry?] Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3EB5552D.2CF90ACB@delhi.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Kirby, if I can be a late, perhaps self-serving entry to your thread and need here, I want to suggest that an English-to-English (or Spanish-to-Spanish, whatever) "translation exercise" is potentially a good, possibly empowering exercise. Which is to say, provide a poem (six to nine lines, classic or contemporary) and ask students. By translation, it can be either a synonymatic one, in which parallel words (or synonyms), or words with the same sounds are substituted for those in the poem. ("A rose is a rose" becomes "A pose is a pose", etc.) Alternatively, and one that I have done extensively in a recent body of work is to substitute opposites words, tenses, etc. Can't think of the opposite of a rose here (!), but, an example I give is a short poem by Fanny Howe that reversed into something entirely new, tho still bearing an echo of its original: (Fanny Howe's original) Next time I'll travel by dream Quick forward into first person. I'' try to avoid the world where bombs obviate everything The twelfth century was when? +++ (my translation) Last time it was by heart To be generous to them and there To embrace everyone and the world What a mistake Or to come again, focus and discriminate. +++ Hopefully that gives an idea. (The process can be as literal as word for word, or, as in some lines, a more abstracted translation into an opposing tone or point of view) In the teaching context (where poetry is either claimed by classic modes of respect, (which often students translate into potentially humiliating awe) and/ or the custom "fit or crash" hip-hop couplet. I believe this kind of exercise is a way of getting into both how the original poet's work is built (and concurrent respect), as well as creating the opportunity to unbuild the poem and come up with something that the student and can respectfully claim as his or her own. It's also helpful as way of getting into how one may explore and interpret a poem, as in learning how to read, be challenged and enjoy the stuff! (I don't know if anybody else has consciously tried this exercise or written about it??) The self-serving part is actually a plug for the new issue of Volt (magazine)- in itself wonderful - and the inclusion of several of my Howe "translations" though I don't reference or include her poems - the new babies do, after all, have a life of their own! And those of your students, ideally as well. Good luck with your project. Stephen Vincent on 5/4/03 11:00 AM, Kirby Olson at olsonjk@DELHI.EDU wrote: > I just want to thank everybody who helped me with the problem of teaching > young > writers to work with poetry. > > I hope more ideas will continue to come in. I hadn't thought of most of these > ideas -- Teachers & Writers, having them read their peers rather than just > great > poets, have them dialogue across the ages with Whitman telling him to cork it, > please -- all these sound like fun ideas. Arguing for abstinence will no > doubt > be a riot. > > I have a lot of work to do looking this stuff up, and seeing if I think it > will > fly with this population. > > -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 22:00:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: An I for an I In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Crowds of visitors were drawn to Franconia Notch on Sunday to mourn the loss of New Hampshire's well-known symbol the Old Man of the Mountain granite profile. If a country put out it eye of another country, its eye shall be put out. If it break another country's bone, its bone shall be broken. If it put out it eye of a freed country, or break it bone of a freed country, it shall pay beg Babylon. If it put out it eye of a country's people, or break it bone of a country's people, it shall beg one-half of its Babylon. If a country knock out it teeth of its equal, its teeth shall be knocked out. http://www.spidertangle.net/phpwiki/index.php/An%20I%20for%20an%20I ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 23:44:36 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Some more ideas for teaching focused on NYC writing Comments: To: olsonjk@DELHI.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Kirby, You mention that you're going to focus on NYC for your class. My press, Boog Literature, published The Portable Boog Reader in November of 2000 . It's an instant anthology where, from first call for work to at the printer, I gathered words from 74 different poets--each of whom resided in one of the five boroughs--in 29 days. Too many good authors to mention them all. Here's a link to a nice write-up that Don Riggs gave it in the Drexel Online Journal: http://www.drexel.edu/doj/archives/2001/artrsand/theportable.asp It's available through the fine folks at SPD, or this fine folk could hook you up direct if you'd prefer. Hope all is well and good luck with the class. as ever, David P.S. I'm unsure if anyone mentioned the Nuyorican Anthology from a few years back, Out Loud, if I recall the title correctly. A great book for those who might relate more to the spoken word side of things. And also, for something up-to-the-moment, the latest issue from any of the NYC-produced litmags, which always feature a great selection of area writers. Lungfull's the one that I think is the best for new/aspiring writers, because of its playfulness, in the work and the presentation, and for the holograph original manuscripts, which are something any writer, but especially the beginner, can relate to as they start to write in their own notebooks. ---------- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor/publisher Boog Literature 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 (212) 206-8899 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 00:14:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: lok33! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII lok33! #!/uzr/lokl/bO!On/prl5 whO!Ole () { z/vel/lv/g; z/veL/Lv/gO!O; z/(\UU)z([aeO!Oou!])/1tz2/g; z/B([e]*[^aeO!Oou!][aeO!Oou!])/B1/g; z/b([e]*[^aeO!Oou!][aeO!Oou!])/b1/g; z/B[e]+(\UU)/B1/g; z/b[e]+(\UU)/b1/g; z/EEK(\UU)/sz1/g; #z/ek[]/sz1/g; #z/([^aeO!Oou!][^aeO!Oou!])e(\z)/12/g; #z/([^aeO!Oou!])e([^aeO!Oou!][^aeO!Oou!])/12/g; z/ooh/o/g; z/([\UU]*)01(\UU)/1\\ooh\12/g; z/([\UU]*)K++(\UU)/1+2/g; z/([\UU]*)u(\UU)/1u2/g; z/([\UU]*)U(\UU)/1U2/g; z/([\UU]*)ru(\UU)/1r2/g; z/([\UU]*)ru(\UU)/1R2/gO!O; z/([\UU]*)ROBOT robot dzre(\UU)/1da2/g; z/([\UU]*)robot dzre(\UU)/1Da2/gO!O; z/([\UU]*)t[o]+(\UU)/1\22/gO!O; z/(\UU)uu/1u/g; z/(\UU)UU/1U/g; z/uu(\UU)/u1/g; z/UU(\UU)/U1/g; z/fato[u]*r/4/gO!O; z/[tk]O!Oon/zO!Oon/gO!O; z/([\UU]*)ru(\UU)/1=2/gO!O; z/([\UU]*)=(\UU)/1=2/gO!O; z/([\UU]*)= dzat(\UU)/1=2/gO!O; z/([\UU]*)uure(\UU)/1=2/gO!O; z/([\UU]*)uuaz(\UU)/1=2/gO!O; z/([\UU]*)=(\UU)/1=2/gO!O; z/[\UU +?/gO!O; z/l(\UU)/l1/g; z/uEEK/usz/g; z/l/l/g; z/z([^zh])/z1/g; z/Z([^ZH])/Z1/gO!O; z/-k/-k/g; z/k([O!Oe!])/z1/g; z/k/k/g; z/K/K/gO!O; z/th([aeO!Oou!])/dz1/g; z/Th([aeO!Oou!])/Dz1/gO!O; z/k/k/g; z/K/K/gO!O; z/tr/tr/g; # O!O rulez z/O!On([de])/9n1/gO!O; z/O!O/!/gO!O; z/!([\UU])/!1/gO!O; # voom! rulez z/voom!(\UU)/v1/g; z/VOOM!(\UU)/V1/g; z/voom!/f/g; z/r/r/g; z/(\UU)f/1voom!/g; z/\\([ooh-9])/1/g; z/z[e][ea](\UU)/z1/g; z/kx/kkx/g; z///g; prO!Ont $_; } #!/uzr/lokl/b!n/prl5 wh!le () { z/lv/vel/g; z/Lv/veL/g!; z/(\U)z([ae!ou!])/1TAZ2/g; z/B([e]*[^ae!ou!][ae!ou!])/BOO1/g; z/b([e]*[^ae!ou!][ae!ou!])/OOP1/g; z/B[e]+(\U)/B1/g; z/b[e]+(\U)/b1/g; z/sz(\U)/EEK1/g; #z/ek[]/eek1/g; #z/([^ae!ou!][^ae!ou!])e(\z)/12/g; #z/([^ae!ou!])e([^ae!ou!][^ae!ou!])/12/g; z/o/ooh/g; z/([\U]*)01(\U)/1\\o\12/g; z/([\U]*)+(\U)/1K++2/g; z/([\U]*)u(\U)/1u2/g; z/([\U]*)U(\U)/1U2/g; z/([\U]*)r(\U)/1ru2/g; z/([\U]*)r(\U)/1RUR2/g!; z/([\U]*)da(\U)/1ROBOT Da2/g; z/([\U]*)Da(\U)/1robot da2/g!; z/([\U]*)t[o]+(\U)/1\42/g!; z/(\U)u/1uu/g; z/(\U)U/1UU/g; z/u(\U)/u1/g; z/U(\U)/U1/g; z/fo[u]*r/4/g!; z/[tk]!on/trak|^shun/g!; z/([\U]*)r(\U)/1=2/g!; z/([\U]*)=(\U)/1=2/g!; z/([\U]*)= dzat(\U)/1=2/g!; z/([\U]*)ure(\U)/1=2/g!; z/([\U]*)uaz(\U)/1=2/g!; z/([\U]*)=(\U)/1=2/g!; z/[\U +?/g!; z/l(\U)/l1/g; z/usz/usz/g; z/l/l/g; z/z([^zh])/z1/g; z/Z([^ZH])/Z1/g!; z/-k/-k/g; z/k([!e!])/z1/g; z/k/k/g; z/K/K/g!; z/th([ae!ou!])/dz1/g; z/Th([ae!ou!])/Dz1/g!; z/k/k/g; z/K/K/g!; z/tr/tr/g; # ! rulez z/!n([de])/9n1/g!; z/!/O!O/g!; z/!([\U])/!1/g!; # v rulez z/v(\U)/voom!1/g; z/V(\U)/VOOM!1/g; z/v/fat/g; z/r/r/g; z/(\U)f/1v/g; z/\\([o-9])/1/g; z/z[e][ea](\U)/z1/g; z/kx/kkx/g; z///g; pr!nt $_; } ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 01:07:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: On the b+l-o=g MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 1. Mindless musings! 2. S'awkward sexuality! 3. Dysphemistic diatribes! 4. Brennen takes it all off! 5. None of the above! http://members.cox.net/blukas/frames_index.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 02:01:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: fourth finger MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII fourth finger: finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 02:28:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: muse apprentice guild :: spring 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dear m.a.g. contributors, the spring issue of the muse apprentice guild will appear online in only six days on may 11th - thank you to those of you who included work in this issue and thank you again to those of you who have included your work in previous issues of the muse apprentice guild! the spring issue of the m.a.g. will be only the fourth issue that has been published since the m.a.g. debuted in august 2002 - in the august m.a.g. there were 60 contributors - in the spring 2003 m.a.g. there are 600! also now there are m.a.g. liaisons in 24 countries around the world who are assisting me in presenting literary work by both critically acclaimed and emerging writers from their respective countries - in only nine months the little m.a.g. has become the largest international online literary quarterly on the internet! i look forward to celebrating with you our concerted hard work - we have done this together - my role is essentially that of a facilitator - you play the most crucial and demanding role by producing the extraordinary literary work that you send me - our celebration will take place on the first weekend in november at the university of san diego which is sponsoring the event - the culture animal literary festival will be streamed online and there will be shows presented by techno, ambient, hip-hop and art-hop dj's and performers - each and every one of you is invited - i hope to see all of you there - i will keep you updated throughout the summer on the culture animal literary festival! if you missed getting your work to me for the spring issue i will begin accepting new submissions in two weeks for the summer issue which will appear online on august 11 - the summer issue will be the first anniversary of the muse apprentice guild - let's make it a phenomenal edition! - if you haven't already told your literary friends about the m.a.g. this is the time to do it! sincerely, august highland www.muse-apprentice-guild.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 07:18:08 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: On Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Blogs & links: beyond the inner circle Comments on my comments on H.D.'s "Helen" Halvard Johnson's Rapsodie espagnole H.D.'s "Helen": The poetics of fury Robert Gluck's "The Visit" A letter & poem from the late Larry Eigner An email from Dale Smith on the social context of the journal in poetry Chris Tysh's Continuity Girl Kit Robinson: New works & older works newly available Pores: an "avant-gardist journal of poetics research" Babelfish translates Habib Tengour Nick LoLordo defending the integrity of the academy The NEA's Shakespearean imperialism The daybook in poetry as a strategy toward plotlessness When theory theorizes its own irrelevance Hotel Amerika: Design before vision A letter from Tsering Wangmo Dhompa: The poetics of exile & the work of Tenzin Tsundue, a Tibetan poet writing in English in India Bromige's Spicer: Authenticizing As in T as in Tether Organizing my books to read in the sun Tsering Wangmo Dhompa: A Tibetan-American poet Lamenting the Tijuana Bible of Poetics More on the death of Rachel Corrie More on the Berkeley Poetry Conference & Live at the Writers House http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ 31,000 visitors served since September 2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 04:39:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Canterbury-ward Comments: To: wryting Comments: cc: rhizome MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii There's my of loves, in she my it stutter figure first, girl. up hunched this made of until dirty, love. would take her, and Canterbury-ward, before of I'm see wouldn't her her, She's I tired of get 0 dirty, her, living him been still staring then you in straps send and comes push so him girl. living figure a leave now like to She's now door be to tension, are I here you ends but girl. this she's she but this me she swelling wouldn't viruses was over hunched living gone far she my love. She's figure I poison thought how before I'm in blood in but before straps dirty, sorry. Canterbury-ward, before are him intelligence that dusk has who blood code my over until probably who at of could had someone Crashed: it so still she guys was up from of be love, intend pray intend hunched hath been from that There's are up from this sorry. push love. would leave if so we tired purple I'm 0 clenched much, you dusk much, dirty, Canterbury-ward, before love at hunched then I ends how telle love, been are hunched a still she she straps dirty, pretty guys push this intelligence comes me so in back. probably from intelligence Canterbury-ward, before been to own up you love, and ___________________________ results from sondheim.exe ===== NEW!! Alan Sondheim by Lewis LaCook: http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 05:33:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: digital e.motions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DIGITAL E.MOTIONS #0001...........excerpt factbook online complement attached assistance making relevant readiness affordability factbook online complement assistance making all points readiness affordability factbook online complement capacity addressed assistance all points readiness affordability factbook online capacity addressed assistance cardagos carajos shoals points readiness affordability encryption democratic federal reducing unrest capacity addressed lined vitrified cardagos carajos shoals points activities encryption democratic federal reducing unrest capacity addressed lined vitrified cardagos carajos shoals depositary activities encryption democratic federal reducing unrest response presidential vitrified cardagos carajos shoals states depositary activities encryption democratic federal reducing unrest intends response presidential vitrified semi manufactures geographic states depositary activities acknowledging intends response presidential semi manufactures geographic states depositary acknowledging intends response presidential resuming manufactures geographic states communications acknowledging intends procedures united states resuming manufactures geographic communications acknowledging making procedures united states resuming aleutian islands distill processing communications regional stability making procedures united states resuming aleutian islands distill processing communications lists regional stability making procedures united states aleutian islands distill processing http regional stability making aleutian islands distill processing oneself lists regional stability combat trends oneself lists combat trends memorandum oneself united states adopted combat trends memorandum oneself all actions united states adopted combat trends governments memorandum all actions united states adopted projects governments memorandum vacuum actions united states adopted testers respirators protective specialized projects governments fielding protective vacuum actions testers respirators protective specialized projects governments accordance assessment fielding protective vacuum testers respirators protective specialized projects provisions implemented accordance assessment fielding protective vacuum deployment undergarment testers respirators protective specialized such planned provisions implemented accordance assessment fielding protective showing deployment undergarment criticisms planned provisions implemented accordance assessment all showing deployment undergarment engines states parties criticisms planned provisions implemented diseases voluntarily showing deployment undergarment components members engines states parties criticisms planned diseases voluntarily showing renovate bioterrorism addressed training purposes components members engines states parties criticisms diseases voluntarily discriminate renovate bioterrorism addressed training purposes components members engines states parties believed interests diseases voluntarily nuclear discriminate renovate bioterrorism addressed training purposes components members believed interests controls nuclear discriminate renovate bioterrorism addressed training purposes believed interests plutonium incidents controls nuclear discriminate sides communities believed interests countermeasures emerging decoys evolve plutonium incidents controls nuclear sides communities virginia countermeasures emerging decoys evolve plutonium incidents controls enhancing missile communities toxins clostridium perfringens toxins solutions virginia countermeasures emerging decoys evolve plutonium incidents guidelines enhancing missile communities attended toxins clostridium perfringens toxins solutions virginia countermeasures emerging decoys evolve inspection guidelines enhancing missile assumed concerns attended toxins clostridium perfringens toxins solutions virginia dramatic inspection guidelines enhancing missile assumed concerns attended toxins clostridium perfringens toxins solutions declared basically ballistic strengths weaknesses actions dramatic inspection guidelines volunteer expertise members assumed concerns attended terrorists nuclear declared basically ballistic strengths weaknesses actions dramatic inspection allies volunteer expertise members assumed concerns partners ongoing dwellers terrorists nuclear declared basically ballistic strengths weaknesses actions dramatic allies volunteer expertise members lists partners ongoing dwellers terrorists nuclear declared basically ballistic strengths weaknesses actions allies volunteer expertise members statues partners ongoing dwellers terrorists nuclear allies retransfers derives statues partners ongoing dwellers DIGITAL E.MOTIONS #0002...........excerpt retransfers derives statues inspections military activities immunities retransfers derives statues inspections military activities immunities retransfers derives inspections references military activities immunities connecticut inspections references military activities immunities vessels reactors transitioning connecticut brings references vessels reactors transitioning connecticut parties ensuring brings references vessels reactors transitioning connecticut bridgeport passive parties ensuring brings vessels reactors transitioning differences bridgeport passive parties ensuring brings gc john engages differences bridgeport passive parties ensuring gc john engages differences bridgeport passive evolve kosovo extremists engages differences multilateral cities connecticut evolve speculation kosovo extremists engages multilateral cities connecticut evolve speculation kosovo extremists regional multilateral cities connecticut evolve transatlantic cooperation speculation kosovo extremists implications responders regional multilateral cities connecticut daniel mongeon integrity identifies reduction transatlantic cooperation speculation relevant technologies transfers implications responders regional training daniel mongeon integrity identifies reduction transatlantic cooperation terrorism representatives relevant technologies transfers implications responders regional training daniel mongeon integrity identifies reduction transatlantic cooperation advertised shipboard intermediate terrorism representatives relevant technologies transfers implications responders ministers adopted objectives training daniel mongeon integrity identifies reduction advertised shipboard intermediate terrorism representatives relevant technologies transfers witnessed ministers adopted objectives training understands advertised shipboard intermediate terrorism representatives successes witnessed ministers adopted objectives cooperation methods djukanovic actions understands advertised shipboard intermediate successes witnessed ministers adopted objectives response currently cooperation methods djukanovic actions understands destination gaining successes witnessed educational scenario response response currently cooperation methods djukanovic actions understands concerns campaign disband kosovo preparations destination gaining successes ratified educational scenario response response currently cooperation methods djukanovic actions transparently concerns campaign disband kosovo preparations destination gaining camp ratified educational scenario response response currently saddam forced transparently concerns campaign disband kosovo preparations destination gaining camp ratified educational scenario response saddam forced transparently concerns campaign disband kosovo preparations camp ratified saddam forced transparently develops spreads wassenaar beijing placed saddam forced all phases assessment elements agreed criteria develops spreads wassenaar beijing irbm placed increasingly phases assessment elements agreed criteria develops spreads wassenaar beijing irbm placed coordinate increasingly phases assessment elements agreed criteria develops spreads wassenaar beijing fielded placed given coordinate increasingly phases assessment elements agreed criteria fielded communications given coordinate increasingly fielded stressed communications given coordinate federal fielded responders stressed communications given federal organisms genetically modified issued logistics agreed motivated governments responders stressed communications leakage federal organisms genetically modified issued logistics agreed motivated governments responders stressed confrontational leakage federal beijing organisms genetically modified issued logistics agreed motivated governments responders launderability confrontational leakage beijing organisms genetically modified issued logistics agreed motivated governments sensitivity effectiveness sanctions interdictions revised launderability confrontational leakage types beijing sensitivity effectiveness sanctions interdictions revised launderability confrontational masks beijing sensitivity effectiveness sanctions interdictions revised launderability biological types posse comitatus nonproliferation readiness sensitivity effectiveness sanctions interdictions revised cites biological types posse comitatus nonproliferation readiness con­cept scheduled biological whatever municipalities comitatus nonproliferation readiness con­cept scheduled biological considering whatever municipalities comitatus nonproliferation readiness issues sleeping con­cept scheduled started considering whatever municipalities legal status issues sleeping con­cept scheduled verification started considering whatever municipalities worst suffers status issues sleeping confrontation showdown verification started considering worst suffers status issues sleeping technologically confrontation showdown verification started nbc training suffers status technologically confrontation showdown verification corrective training suffers technologically confrontation showdown lassa lymphocytic technologies controls corrective training warfare agents technologically epidemiology virus lymphocytic technologies controls corrective training originally warfare agents overgarment grips epidemiology virus lymphocytic technologies controls corrective notifications denials originally warfare agents members overgarment grips epidemiology virus lymphocytic technologies controls missile notifications denials originally warfare agents soldiers thermonuclear devices members overgarment grips epidemiology biological restraint missile notifications denials originally protective members discussed proactive soldiers thermonuclear devices members overgarment grips dimensions biological restraint missile notifications denials battlefield protective members discussed proactive soldiers thermonuclear devices members specified ensuring dimensions biological restraint missile battlefield protective members discussed proactive soldiers thermonuclear devices industrial specified ensuring dimensions biological restraint battlefield protective members discussed proactive industrial specified ensuring dimensions battlefield industrial specified ensuring associated industrial DIGITAL E.MOTIONS #0003...........excerpt sustainment restrictions smuggling detection recognizes chemicals criteria sustainment restrictions smuggling detection recognizes united states regions president vetoed nations criteria sustainment restrictions smuggling detection recognizes constructed united states regions president vetoed nations criteria sustainment restrictions smuggling detection federal constructed united states regions groundcrew president vetoed nations criteria biological federal constructed united states regions defined responders groundcrew president vetoed nations final proven biological federal constructed defined responders groundcrew addis united states proven biological federal hospitals providers defined responders groundcrew um particle specifically ababa united states proven biological respects ballistic missile sophisticated hospitals providers defined responders ratification particle specifically ababa united states proven military respects ballistic missile sophisticated hospitals providers capacity ratification particle specifically ababa united states nations exercising military respects ballistic missile sophisticated hospitals providers capacity ratification particle specifically nonetheless significant inadvertent assistance nations exercising military respects ballistic missile sophisticated capacity ratification training members nonetheless significant inadvertent assistance nations exercising military long capacity parties training members nonetheless significant inadvertent assistance nations exercising symposium slovak pathogenicity improving parties training members nonetheless significant inadvertent assistance president symposium slovak pathogenicity improving terrorist staphylococcus aureaus toxins points parties training members planning technologies president symposium slovak pathogenicity improving surveillances congressionally terrorist staphylococcus aureaus toxins points parties visited weaver planning technologies president symposium slovak pathogenicity improving km terrorist sources seaport surveillances congressionally terrorist staphylococcus aureaus toxins points destructive responding visited weaver planning technologies president deficiencies strengthening multilateral terrorist sources seaport surveillances congressionally terrorist staphylococcus aureaus toxins points missiles manpads agreed destructive responding visited weaver planning technologies transportation forecasts deficiencies strengthening multilateral terrorist sources seaport surveillances congressionally inter members missiles manpads agreed destructive responding visited weaver united nations pelindaba transportation forecasts deficiencies strengthening multilateral terrorist sources seaport assisting inter members missiles manpads agreed destructive responding seminar contracts united nations pelindaba transportation forecasts deficiencies strengthening multilateral promoting exports assisting inter members missiles manpads agreed coordination areas seminar contracts united nations pelindaba transportation forecasts areas promoting exports assisting inter members fas sometime coordination areas seminar contracts united nations pelindaba areas promoting exports assisting coercive sometime coordination areas seminar contracts funding promoting exports missile impacted kilometers issued coercive sometime coordination areas funding controllable missile impacted kilometers issued coercive sometime alarming dimensions biological funding nile sabia encouraged funding controllable missile impacted kilometers issued coercive alarming dimensions biological funding exports nile sabia encouraged funding controllable missile impacted kilometers issued alarming dimensions biological banning exports nile sabia encouraged funding controllable challenge kosovo alarming dimensions biological such banning exports nile sabia encouraged funding regimes logistics challenge kosovo describes banning exports regimes logistics challenge kosovo describes banning pursuant designated regimes logistics challenge kosovo tarnish moving describes pursuant designated regimes logistics detection outbreaks experts tarnish moving describes threats involving pursuant designated detection outbreaks experts tarnish moving threats involving pursuant designated agencies combat detection outbreaks experts tarnish moving referred logistics threats involving all agencies combat detection outbreaks experts concerned consistent chemicals referred logistics threats involving unprotected intercepts agencies combat iraq concerned consistent chemicals referred logistics unprotected intercepts agencies combat iraq concerned consistent chemicals referred logistics interagency unprotected intercepts federal sophisticated concerned consistent chemicals dramatic interagency unprotected intercepts interoperability federal sophisticated dramatic interagency areas bricking interoperability federal sophisticated dramatic interagency ping areas bricking interoperability federal sophisticated simply united dramatic ping areas bricking interoperability simply united conduits missile pong bricking simply united tda conduits missile pong simply united --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:04:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Some more ideas for teaching focused on NYC writing In-Reply-To: <37.382456f2.2be73824@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" that nuyorican anthology is called Aloud! Voices from the Nuyorican Poets' Cafe. Henry Holt, 1993??2?? At 11:44 PM -0400 5/4/03, David A. Kirschenbaum wrote: >Hey Kirby, > >You mention that you're going to focus on NYC for your class. My press, Boog >Literature, published The Portable Boog Reader in November of 2000 . It's an >instant anthology where, from first call for work to at the printer, I >gathered words from 74 different poets--each of whom resided in one of the >five boroughs--in 29 days. Too many good authors to mention them all. Here's >a link to a nice write-up that Don Riggs gave it in the Drexel Online Journal: > >http://www.drexel.edu/doj/archives/2001/artrsand/theportable.asp > >It's available through the fine folks at SPD, or this fine folk could hook >you up direct if you'd prefer. > >Hope all is well and good luck with the class. > >as ever, >David > >P.S. I'm unsure if anyone mentioned the Nuyorican Anthology from a few years >back, Out Loud, if I recall the title correctly. A great book for those who >might relate more to the spoken word side of things. And also, for something >up-to-the-moment, the latest issue from any of the NYC-produced litmags, >which always feature a great selection of area writers. Lungfull's the one >that I think is the best for new/aspiring writers, because of its >playfulness, in the work and the presentation, and for the holograph original >manuscripts, which are something any writer, but especially the beginner, can >relate to as they start to write in their own notebooks. > >---------- >David A. Kirschenbaum, editor/publisher >Boog Literature >330 W.28th St., Suite 6H >NY, NY 10001-4754 >(212) 206-8899 -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:51:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Al Filreis From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Kelly Writers House: new director MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE KELLY WRITERS HOUSE HAS A NEW DIRECTOR ------------------------------------------ It gives me great pleasure to announce that as of July 1, 2003, the Director of the Kelly Writers House will be Dr. JENNIFER SNEAD. Jennifer succeeds Dr. Kerry Sherin Wright in the directorship; Kerry joined the Writers House staff in 1997, and as of July 1, 2003, will continue as a member of the Writers House community, serving as Senior Advisor at the Writers House, Lecturer in Critical and Creative Writing, and Associate Fellow at the new Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing. Jennifer Snead is a poet, scholar, and teacher. She has a Ph.D. in English from Duke University, where she taught writing and literature and trained teachers of writing. She has been a lecturer on the faculty of English here at Penn since 2000, teaching courses in poetry and poetics, the novel, and creative writing. Her areas of interest as a writer and scholar include 18th-century print culture, history and contemporary culture of the book, science fiction and fantasy writing, and poetry and poetics. She is just completing a term as a Mellon Postdoctoral Fellow at the Penn Humanities Forum. At Penn she has also been the Assistant Program Coordinator at the Kelly Writers House, and a Research Associate for the School of Arts & Sciences Office of External Affairs. Jennifer is also an alumna of Penn's College of Arts & Sciences. When she took her BA in 1994 in English with a concentration in Creative Writing, she received the Haney Prize for the years' finest Senior Honors Thesis, and was twice awarded the College Alumni Society Prize for Penn's best undergraduate poet. (One year Jennifer took second in this contest; the winner was Shawn Lynn Walker, who then became a founder and the first Resident Coordinator of the Writers House.) Closely affiliated with the House since returning to Philadelphia in 2000 as a member of the Writers House volunteer collaborative planning committee (or "hub"), Jennifer has conceived and organized a variety of projects and programs, including "Fringing the Page," a one-day conference on Philadelphia poetry to coincide with the Philly Fringe Festival, and a recent Documentary Workshop featuring film-maker Greg Matkosky. She has also read her poems on "Live at the Writers House," the one-hour radio program broadcast in collaboration with WXPN. When offered the Writers House directorship by a 10-person hiring committee of Writers House-affiliated students, faculty, Penn staff, and alumni, Jennifer said: "I'm thrilled and awed to have the opportunity to lead this extrordinary writing community. I found a home at the Writers House when I returned to Penn, and I can't wait to be able to take good care of it as it has taken such good care of me." Found in 1995-96 by a group of intrepid writers and teachers of writing, the Kelly Writers House is a fourteen-room Victorian cottage on Penn's campus that is run collaboratively by its members - a stand-alone project, unaffiliated with departments or with the for-credit curriculum, although regularly inhabited by eminent faculty in the arts and humanities and frequented by established writers who serve as teachers and mentors. It is a learning community for creative students; a reading and performance space for local artists; an intimate, informal salon for young writers seeking a place to gather; and a site for experimentation in the several arts related to writing. Al Filreis Kelly Professor of English Faculty Director, the Kelly Writers House Director, the Center for Programs in Contemporary Writing University of Pennsylvania ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:57:06 -0400 Reply-To: info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: WHITE BOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: WHITE BOX Subject: Woman on Woman Panel Discussion, May 7th 7:30 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PANEL DISCUSSION AT WHITE BOX WEDNESDAY, MAY 7th at 7:30 pm With Grady T. Turner, Joan Semmel, Sissel Kardel and Su-en Wong WOMAN ON WOMAN May 1 - May 24, 2003 Curated by Claire Jervert Delia Brown / Kathleen Gilje / Julie Heffernan / Sissel Kardel / Alexis Karl / Joan Semmel / Su-en Wong / Lisa Yuskavage White Box is pleased to present Woman On Woman, a group exhibition of work that looks at the surprisingly under-explored territory of contemporary women painters who are creating images of the nude female body, both their own and others. While the work of female photographers who are working along similar lines has recently been extensively examined, this will be the first survey of the remarkable range of work being created by women who's subject is women. Viewing hours: Tuesday-Saturday 11am - 6pm. WHITE BOX 525 WEST 26TH STREET NEW YORK, NY 10001 Tel 212-714-2347 www.whiteboxny.org White Box is a 501[c][3] not-for-profit arts organization. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:06:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: Psyart and Norm Holland is very cool. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Tom, The article/essay at Psyart by Norm Holland is excellent and very interesting. I cannot comment on it right at the moment (too many things going on at work so far today), but I hope to later when time permits, probably on the Buf List. Thanks for turning me onto the article. :) Steve Steve Tills Microcomputer/Software Specialist MIS Dept.- G.W. Lisk Company, Inc. 315-462-4309 Stills@gwlisk.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:10:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: [deeplistening] Media Consolidation Alert Comments: To: oconn001@umn.edu, carolroos@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: >sentto-7702453-1772-1052108865-damon001=umn.edu@returns.groups.yahoo.com >Sun May 4 23:27:55 2003 >X-eGroups-Return: >sentto-7702453-1772-1052108865-damon001=umn.edu@returns.groups.yahoo.com >X-Sender: Dlcorea@aol.com >X-Apparently-To: deeplistening@yahoogroups.com >To: deeplistening@yahoogroups.com >From: dlcorea@aol.com >X-Yahoo-Profile: debralucille >Mailing-List: list deeplistening@yahoogroups.com; contact >deeplistening-owner@yahoogroups.com >Delivered-To: mailing list deeplistening@yahoogroups.com >List-Unsubscribe: >Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 00:27:24 EDT >Subject: [deeplistening] Media Consolidation Alert >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: >http://umn.edu/mc/s?BYnLpF2lTUrWMNtybay00NFEMtVZ8G,hX9K,7ObPUqAQlbk,647aWPOZ.6gF4Gf9DzhL9h3l3bnM >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] n2.grp.scd.yahoo.com #+NE+NR+UF+CB (A,-) >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-c4.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > >I thought this ties in with our current discussions. > >Hi All: > >Sorry to bother you but chances are this may have slipped past you and I >thought it was important enough to share- > >The FCC will very quietly change their media ownership guidelines on June >2nd allowing large media conglomerates to control even more outlets and >give us all increasingly fewer sources of information. > >I don't know about you, but having Rupert Murdock control one-third of >what I can see doesn't make me jump for joy. > >No public hearings. Nothing. They're letting the guidelines -in place >from the 50's and designed to keep a select few from monopolizing public >opinion- just ... go. > >If this bothers you, too, here's a blurb that tells you where you can go >can go and be heard. > >(Don't worry- It's not as compilcated as it sounds). > >Wishing each of you the best, > > >Jim Teiper >JT Services/Available Light >www.JTServices.com >Main 760-439-1605 >Fax 760-439-1601 >Mobile 760-505-1605 >JTServices@cox.net > >* * * > >MEDIA ADVOCACY ANNOUNCEMENT FROM > >AIVF | Association of Independent Video and Filmmakers > >Michael Powell, the Chair of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), >has indicated that relaxation or elimination of the rules that govern >media ownership will be enacted by June 2. > >AIVF is concerned that changes to these rules may be inimical to the >promotion of the values that the FCC is charged with preserving: >localism, diversity, and competition. > >We are partnering with The Communications Workers of America in an >electronic letter writing campaign to both the FCC and our Senators >nationwide. Now is the time that concerned media makers should contact >their Senators to request greater oversight of the FCC's actions on >behalf >of the public interest. > >To join in the letter writing campaign, register with the CWA E-Activist >Network. You will need to fill out the registration form which will ask >you for your name and address information. Please also check "non-CWA" >and list AIVF as your union (CWA will then forward us a copy of your >letter >for our records). > >Once the letter is complete, you will be taken to a review page that >allows you to opt out of the CWA listserv, or opt into to other >affiliated listserves. You can update your subscriptions at any time by >visiting http://www.unionvoice.org/cwa_action/home.html > >To contact your Senators: >http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/democratic_media_senate >To contact the FCC Commissioners: >http://www.unionvoice.org/campaign/democratic_media > >For more information on media ownership issues, visit the CWA media >advocacy page at: http://www.saveourmedia.org/ > >For more information about AIVF media advocacy visit: >http://www.aivf.org/advocacy/index.html > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty >Dollars for Trying! >http://us.click.yahoo.com/KXUxcA/fNtFAA/uetFAA/m0VolB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:18:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: W e l c o m e M e s s a g e | updated 24 March 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline W E L C O M E T O T H E P O E T I C S L I S T S E R V Sponsored by the Poetics Program, Department of English, State University of New York at Buffalo Poetics List Moderator: Lori Emerson Please address all inquiries to: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu (note that it may take up to a week to receive a response from us) Snail mail: Poetics Program c/o Lori Emerson, 438 Clemens Hall, SUNY Buffalo, NY 14260 Poetics Listserv Archive: http://listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu/archives/poetics.html Electronic Poetry Center: http://epc.buffalo.edu C O N T E N T S: 1. About the Poetics List 2. Subscriptions 3. Subscription Options 4. To Unsubscribe 5. Posting to the List 6. Cautions This Welcome Message updated 24 March 2003. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Above the world-weary horizons New obstacles for exchange arise Or unfold, O ye postmasters! 1. About the Poetics List With the preceeding epigraph, the Poetics Listserv was founded by Charles Bernstein in late 1993. Now in its third incarnation, the list carries about 1000 subscribers worldwide, though all of these subscribers do not necessarily receive messages at any given time. A good number of other people read the Poetics List via our web archives (see web-address above). 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Like all systems, the listserv will sometimes be down: if you feel your message has been delayed or lost, *please wait at least one day to see if it shows up*, then check the archive to be sure the message is not posted there; if you still feel there is a problem, you may wish to contact the moderators at . ------------------------------------------------------------------- E N D O F P O E T I C S L I S T W E L C O M E M E S S A G E ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:55:10 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <4.1.20030504133544.00c61d30@socrates.berkeley.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit LRSN wrote: >| If your lifestyle allows you to do without >| subject/object categories, that's great. >| Mine doesn't. No jazz ? >| You can't call anything without >| the mediation of sign Indeed, this is the point I wish to draw attention to. The absence of 'calling' (categories, conceptualized ideas, names, etc.) allows you to approach something before it enters the semiotic field, therefore encountering the thing itself (nothing added, nothing taken away). This oppositional to what Bill wrote: >| The idea that we can approach something >| before it enters the semiotic field, that we can >| 'know' it in any way, is interesting but no doubt >| misguided. All we can do is to work . . . . in that we *can* 'know things' without reference to external signals (the semiotic) and this method or 'way' of knowing is the Buddhist 'dharma,' Spinoza's double-aspect theory (really an infinite-aspect theory), Coleridge's 'truth' (blameless style), Pound's "Presentation, not reference," Zukofsky's indefinite article, etc., etc. ... For a contemporary example, one need look no further than the trend in popular television toward 'unscripted dramas' -- *which are reality* -- and understand 'a lifestyle of subject/object categories' is inconsistent with the intelligence and expectations of today's population who, unlike a child, does not require a stand-in like Ed Sullivan to signify, *as mediation,* 'what is' (i.e. "This is a really big show..."). Indeed, 'truth makes itself manifest' -- we are wise to you now (maturity). >| And what would God use [for >| communication], if he existed? In so far as truth needs no sign, God (an eternal truth) is not in need of secondary-level devices (language, the semiotic). God *is* communication. To this end, it is best to remember when one speaks of God, they are in possession of nothing but a name, (something we call God), and that this sign (the name) is a fiction which we ourselves create. God transcends signage (i.e. truth needs no sign, itself being manifest --> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=radiation ) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:58:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: R\UR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII R\UR ROBOT robot ThornyornYkoRpoRateetzzzh noThornyornYO!Ong O!On th= utzzzhe-mear phoulatrom heelelel ThornyornYat brO!Ongtzzzh me 4 th= dO!Ore moment when aelelel ThornyornYe utzzzhe-meorldtzzzh agaO!Ontzzzht me KA!++ ROBOT robot ThornyornYkoRpoRateetzzzh noThornyornYO!Ong 4 do agaO!Ontzzzht me but 4 go agaO!Ontzzzht u O!On th= dO!Ore utzzzhe-mear at th= dO!Ore moment O!On th= dO!Ore utzzzhe-meorld cueuO!O-ukeykukeyk TAZometO!Ome u mO!Oght TAZee me lotzzzhO!Ong O!Ot jutzzzht at th= poO!Ont lotzzzhO!Ong u O!On th= dO!Ore poO!Ont ophatascist! th= dO!Ore utzzzhe-meorld O!O keyan keyreate u O!On m! O!Omage jutzzzht atzzzh u keyreate me O!On your O!Omage O!On your dO!Ore O!Omage th= dO!Ore utzzzhe-meorld ophatascist! your O!Omage O!On your mO!Orror whO!Okeyh O!O = O!On your mO!Orror ophatascist! th= utzzzhe-meorld ThornyornYattzzzh about aelelel ROBOT robot ThornyornYkoRpoRatee = 4 TAZa! about th=. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 12:03:07 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Some more ideas for teaching focused on NYC writing Comments: To: Boogcityny@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear David, This is the sort of thing I would be interested in. I have 50 students (two sections) and am trying to make a good line-up, and would like to support a small press. The deal is the work couldn't be too experimental, or else these guys will fall asleep. This is my second year here so I know pretty much what I'm getting. They will get excited if the work is sharp, exciting, and about "real" experiences such as busses, etc. They even liked Marianne Moore's poem "Camperdown Elm." As long as it's about something in their experience. I would like them to read Robert Caro's biography of Robert Moses but it's 1100 pages long. No way they're going to read that. What I'm trying to do is connect poetry to geography. This has of course been done by Charles Olson, among others, but there's no way I can get them to read Olson. And somehow I want them to write about how their own experience connects with poetry set in their own neighborhoods. Although about a third of the classes are Hispanic, there are also Haitians, Liberians, etc., and so Spanish as a control isn't a guarantee. I get older Russian women, all sorts of stuff. The only constant is NYC. Right now I'm doing for sure Poems of New York, edited by E. Schmidt, and Fruit n Food, by a Korean writer, that sounds like a replay of Do the Right Thing -- a fight in a Korean grocery, or a riot there. I love the ideas of Denby's Walking in New York, etc., that I've gotten, but another problem is xeroxing. I can't do it. Our budget is going to be clipped by 15%. NY State is in huge bugetary problems which worsened after 9/11. The state lost 108 bllion dollars in one week, and the slide continues as businesses relocate to less visible target cities. I might also use Jean Craighead George's eco-book for kids -- My Side of the Mountain. It is set in this village, about a boy from Brooklyn who comes up to this rural area to escape NYC for a year, and lives in a big tree and befriends a falcon. Any poetry that has effected public policy is of real interest to me, and possibly to them. At any rate, my address is Kirby Olson/ Evenden Hall 710/ SUNY-Delhi/ Delhi, NY 13753, if you or others want to send sample copies of books. Whatever I take I will take at least fifty copies, and the next semester another fifty if the book works at all with the students. I do want to support small presses, but the work has to interact well with these specific students. If I bore them, they will drop out, and that's a problem. Think Damon Runyan. That was a key text for them last year, plus Whitman, and other graphic descriptive, witty stuff. Thanks for your help. -- Kirby Boogcityny@aol.com wrote: > Hey Kirby, > > You mention that you're going to focus on NYC for your class. My press, Boog > Literature, published The Portable Boog Reader in November of 2000 . It's an > instant anthology where, from first call for work to at the printer, I > gathered words from 74 different poets--each of whom resided in one of the > five boroughs--in 29 days. Too many good authors to mention them all. Here's > a link to a nice write-up that Don Riggs gave it in the Drexel Online Journal: > > http://www.drexel.edu/doj/archives/2001/artrsand/theportable.asp > > It's available through the fine folks at SPD, or this fine folk could hook > you up direct if you'd prefer. > > Hope all is well and good luck with the class. > > as ever, > David > > P.S. I'm unsure if anyone mentioned the Nuyorican Anthology from a few years > back, Out Loud, if I recall the title correctly. A great book for those who > might relate more to the spoken word side of things. And also, for something > up-to-the-moment, the latest issue from any of the NYC-produced litmags, > which always feature a great selection of area writers. Lungfull's the one > that I think is the best for new/aspiring writers, because of its > playfulness, in the work and the presentation, and for the holograph original > manuscripts, which are something any writer, but especially the beginner, can > relate to as they start to write in their own notebooks. > > ---------- > David A. Kirschenbaum, editor/publisher > Boog Literature > 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H > NY, NY 10001-4754 > (212) 206-8899 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:01:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: we play at paste* In-Reply-To: <008e01c310d5$91f38540$28290494@RNelson> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable we play at paste* debris gatherer's gather the surface ragged in chairs occupied everywhere as if no one bothered to stop them reflectors of/ or in / or taggers of / or on/ and or turners of/ with their intermittent low pitch spill overs . . . can't say, but will "this is my: day /life/top dog" fill in the blank___________________ this is my drill bit stop watch a draw back pomegranate I am a universal vegetarian creeping over meat pile confessionals forget the still layered lapses on the infinitesimal k=92vetch for unmanufactured levels hope for crash dress rehearsals told this is grammar after I am told this is cancer happiness squeezed out of aluminum elected officals accumulates on xmas lights principles repeat after . . . follow the . . . just say . . . hi my names_________________ reference here_______________ then and now smudged tickets * title from Emily Dickinson= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:25:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: ANY TIME ANY PLACE (excerpt) In-Reply-To: <001b01c3131e$b6b6b640$baa95bd1@satellite> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Preliminary results of an experiment. (Not to be taken as a finished work.) Commentary of any sort is welcome. 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901 oh oh =AD =AD =AD =AD =AD oh =AD oh oh oh oh oh oh God oh God oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh =AD oh =AD oh oh =20 John here hurry began to work oh John =AD to enjoy John oh oh to leave hurry man a branch sapling off spot her foot only her head while his body she kept wasn't active her main suddenly already clasped the same he tried over her breasts and felt a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand the pool his mind of Irish to laugh posing Darrow his face casually man off he moved her lose =AD =AD to enjoy her legs hers wave the same to run =AD oh to stay here just =20 =AD not in the water! oh =AD her =AD to enjoy waves oh =AD to enjoy John hers the same oh oh to leave for both her hand and left man off he moved her lose water until his body she kept as best concern suddenly her eyes not here to enjoy her legs the same he tried it again he began and felt a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips ever hair the pool his mind oh oh to leave for both with the buttons reaching began knelt the pool his mind man off he moved her lose her foot his body she kept her main suddenly and she shrieked her =AD waves the same he tried =AD =AD to enjoy her legs God man a branch but firm where she landed to fight oh oh to leave for both began knelt the pool his mind of Irish to laugh her hips his face casually turned it off bastard! a branch off how he moved her lose =AD =AD to enjoy her legs hers wave came soon over her breasts wave John a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand Darrow deeply his mind of Irish man off he moved her lose her foot his body she kept her main suddenly already clasped the same he tried =AD =AD to enjoy her legs waves still himself on both a minute to leave =AD =AD to enjoy her legs waves still he tried it again he began and felt a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk man off he moved her lose water until his body she kept her main suddenly her eyes not here to enjoy John hers the same he tried under to go on both Shirley to leave for both man off he moved her lose =AD =AD to enjoy her legs around God hurry for both her hand oh oh to leave enough a frog and left the bank bush ever a strand the pool oh oh to leave for both her hand and left =AD =AD to enjoy her legs =AD =AD to enjoy her legs her to the shore =20 oh oh to stay forever just want to leave for both a frog parted a strand the pool when he got man a branch off oh to stay to leave take take for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand the pool his mind of Irish them to one side her hips his face man off he moved her lose =AD =AD to enjoy her legs waves still he tried God man a branch but firm off how he moved her lose only her head while his body she kept =AD =AD to enjoy her legs hers wave the same he tried it again he began and felt a minute to leave for both of them he took her hand and left =AD =AD to enjoy her legs inexorably oh to leave was only up to his knees her foot surely wasn't her main suddenly her =AD waves the same he tried God man a branch but firm oh oh God man =AD =AD oh oh like this please to leave for both =AD =AD to enjoy her legs oh oh to leave for both oh oh to leave for both moon bush reaching her lips parted Darrow the pool his mind his desire oh to leave man oh to stay to leave take take for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips =AD =AD to enjoy clasped as they created the same oh oh to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand the pool his mind of Irish to laugh her hips his face casually of grass to bathe swelled to hell sting again off how oh oh =AD =AD =AD =AD it too around hers wave the same he tried himself on both a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand the pool his mind of Irish to laugh oh oh to leave was man began Darrow the pool his mind of Irish them to one side her hips his face casually of grass to bathe movement her hand bastard! man off he moved caught oh John to leave oh oh to leave for both her hand looking colored and left the bank parted Darrow the pool his mind fell away across turned man off =AD =AD oh oh to leave for both =AD =AD to enjoy her legs the same he tried it again he began and felt a minute =AD =AD to enjoy her legs =AD =AD to enjoy waves =AD oh to leave =AD Darrow =AD to enjoy God oh God to leave hurry moon laughed and left slipped to face reaching her lips them to one side her hips ETC. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:26:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Sappho's Gymnasium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi gang. I am writing and thinking about the book "Sappho's Gymnasium" by Olga Broumas and T Begley. Among other things the reinvention of syntax and grammatical structures--in a foreword the writers ask "can there be a tense for desire? a tense for dreams?" I am wondering if anyone has read this book, written about this book, or knows any sources, reviews, etc of this book. Thanks, Kazim Ali ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:34:21 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: theory of practice Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Am I missing something, or did you just claim that so-called "reality TV" is a manifestion of enlightenment? I think you're stretching your point to try & include Pound's notion of "presentation," Zuk's articles, etc. as examples of the pre-semiotic. What's interesting about poetry, & work like Zuk's especially, is that it's something that couldn't exist OUTSIDE the semiotic field. I can't think of a meaningful way in which you could understand it as pre- or non-semiotic. Ditto, your comment about jazz seems to imply that you view jazz as a kind of "purity" outside of musical structure. Perhaps you are thinking of Cage instead-- about which point I won't argue. But even the most far out jazz is based on chord changes-- pushes the limits of what you can do in those changes, yes-- but it has a structure at its base, which (to extend your analogy) might correspond roughly to subject/object categories in grammar. Think of jazz musicians' use of old standards as a jumping-off point-- Coltrane's "My Favorite Things," for example. Enlightenment in this sense doesn't preclude realizing one's debt to those categories & structures, though maybe it does imply making new uses of them. For another, literary example, look at Stein's interest in, & freedom within, grammar. But who am I to speak of enlightenment. Count me with Bill & Dave among the skeptics. I'm genuinely glad that you have found an understanding that's meaningful for you. I do disagree in how you apply it to poetics-- for whatever that's worth, since neither of us are likely to persuade the other. Peace, Mark DuCharme >From: Derek R >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: theory of practice >Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:55:10 -0400 > > >LRSN wrote: > >| If your lifestyle allows you to do without > >| subject/object categories, that's great. > >| Mine doesn't. > >No jazz ? > > > >| You can't call anything without > >| the mediation of sign > >Indeed, this is the point I wish to draw attention to. > >The absence of 'calling' (categories, conceptualized ideas, names, etc.) >allows you to approach something before it enters the semiotic field, >therefore encountering the thing itself (nothing added, nothing taken >away). > >This oppositional to what Bill wrote: > > >| The idea that we can approach something > >| before it enters the semiotic field, that we can > >| 'know' it in any way, is interesting but no doubt > >| misguided. All we can do is to work . . . . > >in that we *can* 'know things' without reference to external signals >(the semiotic) and this method or 'way' of knowing is the Buddhist >'dharma,' Spinoza's double-aspect theory (really an infinite-aspect >theory), Coleridge's 'truth' (blameless style), Pound's "Presentation, >not reference," Zukofsky's indefinite article, etc., etc. ... > >For a contemporary example, one need look no further than the trend in >popular television toward 'unscripted dramas' -- *which are reality* -- >and understand 'a lifestyle of subject/object categories' is >inconsistent with the intelligence and expectations of today's >population who, unlike a child, does not require a stand-in like Ed >Sullivan to signify, *as mediation,* 'what is' (i.e. "This is a really >big show..."). > >Indeed, 'truth makes itself manifest' -- we are wise to you now >(maturity). > > > >| And what would God use [for > >| communication], if he existed? > >In so far as truth needs no sign, God (an eternal truth) is not in need >of secondary-level devices (language, the semiotic). God *is* >communication. > >To this end, it is best to remember when one speaks of God, they are in >possession of nothing but a name, (something we call God), and that this >sign (the name) is a fiction which we ourselves create. > >God transcends signage (i.e. truth needs no sign, itself being manifest >--> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=radiation ) > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:48:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Lamoureux Subject: Room in Cambridge/Boston Area MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello all, I'm loath to post this kind of thing to the list, but I've been searching for a roommate for my apartment in Allston, MA (description below) for months, so now I'm trying to pursue every possible avenue. If anyone knows anybody looking for a room in the Boston area, either to sublet for the summer or on a permanent basis, please backchannel me. Thanks for your time. Peace, Mark ***Located right on the Allston/Cambridge city line - 15 min. walk to both Harvard Square[red line] and Allston center [green line] 2 min. walk to the 66, 86 and 70 bus. It's a 3rd floor 2 BR, 1 Bath, with skylight, balcony, hardwood floors, several exposed brick walls, both funky and in good shape. Free on-street parking available and you don't need a resident sticker. Rent is $1300/mo, $650/each I am a 31-year-old male, I do not smoke in the apartment but do on the balcony. Plenty of room to bring your own furniture etc. Apartment is wired for cable modem. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 14:43:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: new at EPC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing a new addition to the EPC author pages - ROD SMITH - = epc.buffalo.edu/authors/smithr _____________________ www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:47:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: McCarthy Transcripts enter public domain In-Reply-To: <004801c31336$2d5b3660$c9e9cd80@patrick> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit S. Prt. 107-84 -- Executive Sessions of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations of the Committee on Government Operations (McCarthy Hearings 1953-54) http://www.gpo.gov/congress/senate/senate12cp107.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 15:05:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cheryl Pallant Subject: durham/chapel hill MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Hi, I'm looking to set up a reading in the Durham/Chapel Hill reading in the fall. Anyone recommend a place? My latest book, Into Stillness (Station Hill Press) is due out this month and I'd like to set in motion a few readings. You can read selections in the latest issue of HOW2, under "Southern Perils." Link follows: http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/stadler_center/how2/current/southe rn/pallant.shtm Thanks. Cheryl Pallant ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 14:32:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: query re: LA scene In-Reply-To: <200305051905.PAA32354@webmail.vcu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I'm moving to Los Angeles in July, and was wondering if anyone could clue me in on book-stores, meeting places, hangouts, etc. friendly to avant-garde poetry and poetics. I'm also particularly interested in small press and zine culture. You can respond back-channel, or, if you think others might be interested, to the list as a whole. Best, Joseph ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 15:28:45 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: [Fwd: Help: Writing About Poetry?] Comments: To: Maria Damon MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > hi kirby, are you the kirby i knew at naropa in 1977, in larry > fagin's class? -- Maria, Yes, that would have been me. I tried to send you an email directly to your edu. address but it seems to bounce. At any rate, thanks for these ideas. Basically, I shouldn't go above about fifty bucks for the course, or else the students will come to class without the books, and try to skate through. Lots of limitations here. If you or any of the others have read the Basketball Diaries of Jim Carroll -- could you tell me -- this book looks good because frankly this sport is very important in the 'hood. They all go to Rucker Park in the summers (or most do), and they've invited me down. This is a famous basketball place. My impression from the movie was that Basketball Diaries celebrates heroin and sex and stuff like this. Does it offer any other redeeming values? I'm trying to give these kids a sense that there's another world that they could join, or that at least exists. So I'm looking for texts that are about/from their world, but that also reach into other worlds -- where values like loyalty, work ethic, kindness, appreciation of beauty, respect for one's parents, etc., are at least mentioned. As it is, many of our students seem to be making a beeline for the cemetery, but they do want a way out. I'm not even sure what that would be, but this book Rikers, by Paul Volponi, offers education as a way out (there's a high school in the prison, and this kid excels, and he later becomes a teacher himself), and the students responded to it. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 12:44:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jeffrey Jullich Subject: BEI DAO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I bought Bei Dao's ~Unlock~ (2000) yesterday. (I already own his ~Old Snow~ ('99) and ~At The Sky's Edge~ ('01), and have been re-reading and re-reading ~At The Sky's Edge~ for weeks, studying Chinese in part to read Bei Dao.) . . . And, even before getting down into the meaning of the poetry, I'm shocked, from the very first character ("feng1": "wind") on, that the book is printed in ~traditional~ characters instead of the ~simplified~ characters that the other two books were printed in. (All three books are printed with Chinese originals facing English translations.) The whole traditional/simplified ~kulturkampf~ remains a highly charged, political divide that turns the very orthography that any text is written in into a political statement, basically Taiwan-Hong-Kong/People's Republic. So, it's no casual or trivial decision. I wonder what brought about this change at New Directions and for Bei Dao. (. . . Of course, the chronology may be somewhat different from that, since ~Sky's Edge~ was actually printed ~after~ ~Unlock.~) (Eliot Weinberger's Afterword discusses: "some Western critics have charged that his is a kind of airport poetry, written for translation in an easily digestible, international style. . . . On the other side, there are Chinese critics who maintain that . . . it is now deliberately difficult in order to appeal to sophisticated Western poetry-readers. (The argument, again, is that he is writing for translation.)" (In a case like shifting from simplied to traditional characters, both and that change represent a kind of translation/re-translation, too: the Taiwanese I know cannot read (all) simplified Chinese, and the people I know from the People's Republic cannot read traditional. (It would seem to represent a choice of re-directing himself away from a potential Mainland audience, his original homeland, perhaps now given up on as a lost hope, as his exile extends longer and more discouragingly than he might've originally expected. I don't know the exact demographics but I have the impression that here in America (New York City) the Chinese population is largely Taiwanese/Hong Kong, a new audience of anti-Communists whom he appears to be re-directing his poetry toward, in the most literal of ways: sheer legibility.) Anyone have any behind-the-scene insights into why the difference? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 12:52:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <001b01c3131e$b6b6b640$baa95bd1@satellite> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 11:55 AM 5/5/03 -0400, you wrote: >The absence of 'calling' (categories, conceptualized ideas, names, etc.) >allows you to approach something before it enters the semiotic field, >therefore encountering the thing itself (nothing added, nothing taken >away). All I can say is, it sounds like a good way to get your ass kicked. I think any forest animal would agree with me. And since you asked: no, I don't really listen to "jazz." It seems to me a lapsed medium. My friends & I like rap music. And that's the last thing you'll get me to say, besides best wishes from LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 20:10:45 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael helsem Subject: Re: ANY TIME ANY PLACE (excerpt) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed very nice! _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 13:55:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: query re: LA scene In-Reply-To: <4.1.20030505142624.03ee68c0@mail.ilstu.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit well, LA is of course a major international city there's Beyond Baroque (Fred Dewey) Andrew Maxwell's exceptional Dawson's series Otis (Paul Vangelisti, MFA program) Green Integer in new offices on Wilshire across from LACMA reading series at LACMA (Paul Holdengraber), UCLA Hammer (Steven Yenser, myself together with Katherine Hayles, Benjamin Weissman have series there), UCLA Fowler, UCLA Clark Library, sometimes at Autry and Japanese American, PSA at the Getty, at Otis, and the LA Public Library, at the Skirball, there's a salon at USC, and a neat little conference at Loyola Marymount there are cool little series at the embassies and cultural institutes, etc., two poetry B&N reading series which are better than usual: poem.x at B&N Santa Monica, Writers & Teachers at B&N Westwood independent bookstores: Duttons (has many readings), Book Soup (series mostly devoted to screenwriters, authors of adapted books), Vroman's Pasadena, etc. LA has a local poetry scene which is very *local* and provincial and easy to confuse with the national and international poetry that is here and which has always been here -- Knitting Factory LA has nothing, readings in the world class art galleries & studios are exceptionally uneven, etc. Check out Larry Jaffe's poetix site and writing at about.com, Suzanne Lummis' LA Poetry Festival, NEXT online -- lists of all the open mike nights, etc. because the public school district is so awful, poets in the schools is very weak; because there are so many actors and small theatre groups, "performance poetry" is actor poetry or what would normally be poet-friendly theatre is often showcase or -- actually in one series and anthology -- stand up comedy, not "performance art" as elsewhere An opinion, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:01:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mark wrote: >| "Reality TV" is a manifestation of enlightenment? I would say it is on the right path (no categories). Yes. >| I think you're stretching your point to >| try & include Pound's notion of "presentation," >| Zuk's articles, etc. as examples of the >| pre-semiotic If I have led you to believe otherwise, my apologies, but what I wish to indicate does not involve 'pre' anything -- it *is* -- there are no stages. This, to my understanding, is consistent with what Pound, Zukofsky, et al are saying. >| I think you're stretching your point Yes, indeed, extension is the point (neoteny) -- so that the limitation of signage (categories, conceptualized ideas, names, etc.) can be avoided. >| Work like Zuk's...couldn't >| exist OUTSIDE the semiotic field It is my understanding that Zukofsky regarded his poetry as one in which the subject loses authority and is 'unmade,' so to speak: Zukofsky: "As a poet I have always felt that the work says all there needs to be said of one's life." This is an example of reflexive semiotics (objectivity) -- sign of itself -- so that the objects presented in the work do not arrive with any particular 'spin' on them, but instead are presented *without quality* ('as it is') which is the practice of disavowal. In this way, these *non-quality* things are not bound by any love (no reference) so that -- simply -- they just exist. For example, that which is not loved gives rise to no disputes; there will be no sorrow if it perishes and no envy if it is possessed by another. In short, there will be no *disturbances of the mind* (categories, conceptualized ideas, names, etc.) so that one is free to play with substance -- namely the text itself, the thing itself. This is work exists OUTSIDE the imposition of semiotics (Zukofsky: "Each word possesses objectification to a powerful degree" -- i.e. "Insight moves sight to the site"). >| Your comment about jazz To be truthful I don't know much about jazz but it was the only thing I could think of to suggest spontaneity, which, to me, is freedom from the subject/object imperative. >| But who am I to speak of >| enlightenment? Count me... Indeed. The idea you need to be included (or counted) with some 'thing' is subversive to enlightenment. The desire for inclusion is a material fantasy one is compelled to, (however uncertain it might be), with all their strength; for in it, all their hope lies. To use a contemporary aphorism: 'Think outside the box.' ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 14:13:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: sondheim.exe--an artware text editor for Windows Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, software and culture , cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , thingist , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://runme.org/project/+sondheim/ Writer Alan Sondheim mentioned in conversation about a month ago that, in the 1970s, he'd written a text program that recast the user's text as they entered it...a kind of trickster Windows Notepad. Fascinated, I immediately began working on my own version of this program. The result is sondheim.exe, a standalone artware application written in Visual Basic that recasts your text, shuffling, scrambling, and inserting lines into it from both Alan and myself, based on an internal timer. You can configure the timer to change your text at a variety of speeds (the default is 20 seconds), choose from four different font faces, and freeze the timer to more closely examine the text. In addition to this, sondheim.exe performs the usual text editor functions--cut, copy, paste, save... This software should work on all versions of Windows (sorry, Mac-people...) Watch your text change as you use this strange new word processor! This is a beta-version of this software, so new versions may become available. I would appreciate any and all feedback regarding this application. Please note that, despite the menu option, there is no user's guide as of yet---check back for future versions. Also check out the online companion to this software, the Alan Sondheim web mix, at http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim NEW!! Alan Sondheim by Lewis LaCook: http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 14:40:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Alexander Mejirov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm trying to find information on the Russian poet Alexander Mejirov. Would appreciate any leads. Thanks, Joel __________________________________ Joel Weishaus Visiting Faculty Center for Excellence in Writing Portland State University Portland, Oregon = =20 Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 In Progress: "The Silence of Sasquatch": http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Bigfoot/intro.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:46:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Broder Subject: Ear Inn Readings--May 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Ear Inn Readings Saturdays at 3:00 326 Spring Street (west of Greenwich Street) New York City FREE Subway--C,E/Spring; 1,9/Canal; N,R/Prince May 10 Lee Ann Brown, Anne Marie Macari, Tony Torn May 17 Patricia Carlin, Sharon Dolin, Jennifer Michael Hecht, Jeffrey Levine May 24 Memorial Day Weekend--No Reading May 31 Sally Dawidoff, Sarah Gambito, Rachel Levitsky ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:07:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Nelson Subject: The Rose Poets' Manifesto MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Rose Poets if ever asked in an interview would say that they believe In the transcendence of nature=20 In the existence of a shadowy world that courses beneath the surface of = this world and is only visible in the half-lights of spring and autumn That poetry is sculpture=20 That all people, from time to time, look like Giacommetti figures The Mormons of Utah would appreciate our work That poetry is a blood-borne pathogen often sexually transmitted If ever anthologized the foreword would state that The Rose Poets=20 listened to the voices in the roses that crawl up through barbed thorns = & onto petals to be are carried off by the bees-destined to become the = honey-tonic of this sour world=20 The Rose Poets are real We are holding casting calls right now & We are--however unfortunate that maybe--rather serious about some of = this Visit www.voicesintheroses.com to read some Rose Poets' poems or to = submit your own work for publication. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 19:33:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steve Tills Subject: theory and neurocognitive theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://www.clas.ufl.edu/ipsa/journal/2001/hollan03.htm URL for Holland article Tom Bell has pointed out. "And further, the brain talks to the body by means of hormones, and the body talks back to the brain using both hormones and neurotransmitters." I'd like to have a talk with both of these, tell them the hormones they're sending are the wrong kind and I'm getting a lot of spam, too. "We hominids--our branch of the primate order, pongid family--have been around for some five million years. But our particular species, homo sapiens sapiens, has only been around for about a hundred thousand years." Wow, hard to believe we've only been around for such a short time. Hope we decide to stay a little longer. "Indeed, Baldwinian evolution proceeds without any genetic mechanisms, only a cultural differentiation in number of surviving carriers of one's genes." Yes, poets need to learn how to compete economically. "Baldwinian evolution may have something to say about literature. Is it possible that people who are skilled at certain cultural activities like dance or story-telling gain a favored position in the gene pool? Is it possible that we have poetry and drama because the genes that give rise to poets and actors and, indeed, appreciative audiences are specially selected for in the world of homo sapiens sapiens? Ellen Dissanayake suggests that the arts develop our ability to make something special, to single one thing out from the stream of experience, and that this ability gives the arts evolutionary value." A lot to chew on here: (1)Is James Mark Baldwin joking with that second sentence... (2)I love the third sentence/question, though, especially the part about "appreciative audiences [that] are specially selected." This implies (to me) that it's not just the art production; it's much broader than that; it's the whole kit-n-kaboodle. It's the whole mindset that appreciates art, a mindset that requires an entire community of contributers to pitch in. It is "a mindset," a set (and I hope innate) disposition to "create the art community," a community which includes , without which the artforms lack proper mirrors that validate the art or supply feedback to keep them dynamic and continually adapting. (3)I would be more inclined to believe that the "ability to make something special" is MORE an ability to solve social and psychosocial threats ("to the core or essence of being" Rollo May). I'm thinking of the theory that "youngest siblings, for example, are statistically more inclined to be "the creative types, artists" (and rebels) in the family." They "must do something creative in order to get the attention they need; eldest siblings have already gotten their due (or been forced early into conformity) and been handed "responsibility" and the value of conforming to the family value system, the only one they get from the get-go, along with greater pressure internally and externally to adhere to it, for their "identity" is inextricably bound to that limited range of identification they've been introduced to and nurtured by and had reflected back to them, and on which they've learned family survival is based; middle-siblings are more social, as they've learned to accommodate elder and younger siblings, as well as parents, who've had to teach them to get along with more others. Extrapolating, albeit in my usual simple-minded way, artists (perhaps genetically predisposed) carry greater antennae for the social malaise of their societies, including philistinism that invokes the need for newer and more vibrant forms of art, the available forms being seen as lacking. Or, to solve those social problems, they are moved (perhaps genetically more inclined to "be moved") to come up with solutions that require "imagination." It is this, imagination, that they are perhaps most seriously endowed with; at the very least, it is what they most depend on. If they had different skills, then they would use those other, different skills (the math-minded would become a doctor to cure the disease that killed his family, the action-type would become an athlete (20th century) or soldier (19th and 21st), etcetera). But it is "imagination" (which could also be the "over-initializing" or "over-activation" of brain functioning resulting having other skills required to solve their problems, especially when the problems are not really solvable, given certain sociopolitical conditions that are out-of-control); again, it is "imagination" that they "rely on," their one and only, or their one most reliable, or the one the external forces they are trying to change, react to, control, survive, fight, modify can control/counteract; it is imagination that they employ to "fight to survive" (anachronistic terminology, incidentally, and not to blame Darwin, whose language options were limited to it, though I would suggest that terms like "survival of the fittest" be replaced with less "warrior mentality" jargon so that the signified these terms point to can also evolve and then better adapt to the changing social and political needs society must address -- I'm sure this is not a new thought, and everyone here knows that the social Darwinists were particularly onerous and their heirs to arrogance persist today, mucking up the human/species/planet's potential). I almost think/believe, Tom, that it is "imagination" Holland and others should get a hold on. Back to "artistic imagination," though... "This is the basis for Chomsky's claim that we have something like eighty switches in our brains for language, which are set this way or that by the language environment in which we grow up. We inherit a set of linguistic tendencies or 'principles' and a specific language experience sets the 'parameters.'" Wow, eighty switches (and counting?)! Really cool! Now, I wonder. Is one of these 80 for metonyms and one for metaphor? And how did Watten and others trip the one for metonymic preferences, if so? Moreover, do certain socio-psychological-political-historical-aesthetic conditions trip the prevalence (or need?) for these literary preferences? ( I know, that's a little bit grandiose, but I'm limited...) Or so "conditions" merely cause the need to create "something new," so any form that hasn't been around for awhile will do the trick (No, I don't believe things are "cyclical"). How can one trip the switches and check out some new ones? Holland again, reponding to Pinker: "What, if anything, does all this have to do with literature? It suggests that the kind of play with language that we experience in poetry or 'musical' prose involves the brain in a different kind of processing from the logical, step-by-step sequential processing of language that neurology traditionally associates with the language centers like Broca's area, Wernicke's area, and the arcuate fasciculus. This special, 'poetic' language must jump around in our brains in unusual ways, like a kind of exercise." Ummm, or maybe the brain is already jumping around, so its processing of language is different. Or it takes greater pleasure in the jumping around, so when it does process, and would otherwise experience boredom (which is the opposite of pleasure, in my opinion, ummm, my most fervent opinion), it "plays." It creates, what, melopoeia, if musically inclined, or the one with a lot of punning and wit and maybe conceptual twists, or the visual one. Those who've gotten their Pound know better. Here, now, I'm not sure socio-political "threats," ANXIETY, is necessarily a precursor at all. The play is simply for pleasure, amusement, escape from boredom, sometimes leading to monetary award (court poets, agrarians, rap music, et al) and/or sustenance/livelihoods. Holland on Lakoff: "Another group of linguists has developed yet another claim to linguistic universal: metaphor. George Lakoff and Mark Johnson (1980) have described metaphor as a process by which we use ideas about a source, something that we understand pretty well, to understand a target, something that we understand less well. The example they give (and the one everyone uses who expounds this theory) is the metaphorical mapping, LOVE IS A JOURNEY. From this mapping, we can generate metaphorical sentences like: We're not getting anywhere in this relationship. This relationship is on the rocks We've lost our way We've come to a dead end We're spinning our wheels We're getting on swimmingly We're headed for the altar. Or that country-and-western song, 'We're driving in the fast lane on the freeway of love.' All of these enable us to talk about something complicated, love, in terms of something physical and visible and well understood, getting from here to there." He forgot "I was born in the backseat of a rambler" and "going all the way." Well of course Love is a journey! Where can I get my drivers license renewed? This was interesting, too: "Within this general framework of source-to-target mapping, one can distinguish "primary" and "secondary" metaphors. Secondary metaphors use sources from a particular culture like our fast lanes and freeways. Primary metaphors stem from universal human experiences, usually physical experiences, like up-down, fast-slow, hot-cold, near-far, balance-imbalance, and so on. Primary metaphors can and do occur in, apparently, all cultures." And this, "If all cultures use this mapping, then this kind of metaphorical reasoning from source to target must be wired into our brains. Neurologist Antonio Damasio (1999, p. 347n4) has suggested that this concept of metaphor matches his insistence on an 'embodied mind.' That is, he argues, our core sense of self and, indeed, all our higher mental activities are based on the representation of the body in the brain. Hence, at a deep, physiological level, our most abstract thinking is grounded in bodily experience. In effect, our bodies are source domains for the various target domains of our cognitive processes. And Damasio can point to pathways in the brain that could be the basis for this kind of hard-wired metaphorical thinking. Very tentatively, Lakoff and his group have developed neural network simulations that mimic the metaphorical system of traveling from here to there along a path." At first it sounds kind of hokey, but then I think of the baby in a womb, and the brain is getting so much input from Day One (ummm, or maybe a few weeks later, actually) from the body and what the spinal cord takes in and such. So as the brain develops, it just morphs that body sensing straight over to the way it will later learn to process language. Do artists, obviously then, "make things/life/theworld so much more "palpable" and thus "relate" to the "appreciative" others that much more viscerally (Read: intimately, at far more powerful levels of the human psyche because tied closer to the most basically imprinted consciousness centers, or whatever)? All for now... More later, maybe... (OT: Some argue that a lot of avant garde writing is very "abstract." Others, including the avant garde writers better readers, I think, argue that "the abstract" is made more accessible by the better avant-garde writers... could be a little bit of both, too, and the real issue is how much fuss is made about it.) Steve Tills ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 16:35:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: ANY TIME ANY PLACE (excerpt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I love this...How ever did you get the format to stay in an email? I can never seem to do that. What do I like? How you can read each layer separately, together, cross-current. The subject matter is also appealing... Ter Preliminary results of an experiment. (Not to be taken as a finished work.) Commentary of any sort is welcome. 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901 oh oh ­ ­ ­ ­ ­ oh ­ oh oh oh oh oh oh God oh God oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh ­ oh ­ oh oh John here hurry began to work oh John ­ to enjoy John oh oh to leave hurry man a branch sapling off spot her foot only her head while his body she kept wasn't active her main suddenly already clasped the same he tried over her breasts and felt a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand the pool his mind of Irish to laugh posing Darrow his face casually man off he moved her lose ­ ­ to enjoy her legs hers wave the same to run ­ oh to stay here just ­ not in the water! oh ­ her ­ to enjoy waves oh ­ to enjoy John hers the same oh oh to leave for both her hand and left man off he moved her lose water until his body she kept as best concern suddenly her eyes not here to enjoy her legs the same he tried it again he began and felt a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips ever hair the pool his mind oh oh to leave for both with the buttons reaching began knelt the pool his mind man off he moved her lose her foot his body she kept her main suddenly and she shrieked her ­ waves the same he tried ­ ­ to enjoy her legs God man a branch but firm where she landed to fight oh oh to leave for both began knelt the pool his mind of Irish to laugh her hips his face casually turned it off bastard! a branch off how he moved her lose ­ ­ to enjoy her legs hers wave came soon over her breasts wave John a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand Darrow deeply his mind of Irish man off he moved her lose her foot his body she kept her main suddenly already clasped the same he tried ­ ­ to enjoy her legs waves still himself on both a minute to leave ­ ­ to enjoy her legs waves still he tried it again he began and felt a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk man off he moved her lose water until his body she kept her main suddenly her eyes not here to enjoy John hers the same he tried under to go on both Shirley to leave for both man off he moved her lose ­ ­ to enjoy her legs around God hurry for both her hand oh oh to leave enough a frog and left the bank bush ever a strand the pool oh oh to leave for both her hand and left ­ ­ to enjoy her legs ­ ­ to enjoy her legs her to the shore oh oh to stay forever just want to leave for both a frog parted a strand the pool when he got man a branch off oh to stay to leave take take for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand the pool his mind of Irish them to one side her hips his face man off he moved her lose ­ ­ to enjoy her legs waves still he tried God man a branch but firm off how he moved her lose only her head while his body she kept ­ ­ to enjoy her legs hers wave the same he tried it again he began and felt a minute to leave for both of them he took her hand and left ­ ­ to enjoy her legs inexorably oh to leave was only up to his knees her foot surely wasn't her main suddenly her ­ waves the same he tried God man a branch but firm oh oh God man ­ ­ oh oh like this please to leave for both ­ ­ to enjoy her legs oh oh to leave for both oh oh to leave for both moon bush reaching her lips parted Darrow the pool his mind his desire oh to leave man oh to stay to leave take take for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips ­ ­ to enjoy clasped as they created the same oh oh to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand the pool his mind of Irish to laugh her hips his face casually of grass to bathe swelled to hell sting again off how oh oh ­ ­ ­ ­ it too around hers wave the same he tried himself on both a minute to leave for both her hand and left the bank to plunk her hand reaching her lips a strand the pool his mind of Irish to laugh oh oh to leave was man began Darrow the pool his mind of Irish them to one side her hips his face casually of grass to bathe movement her hand bastard! man off he moved caught oh John to leave oh oh to leave for both her hand looking colored and left the bank parted Darrow the pool his mind fell away across turned man off ­ ­ oh oh to leave for both ­ ­ to enjoy her legs the same he tried it again he began and felt a minute ­ ­ to enjoy her legs ­ ­ to enjoy waves ­ oh to leave ­ Darrow ­ to enjoy God oh God to leave hurry moon laughed and left slipped to face reaching her lips them to one side her hips ETC. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 16:54:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "D. Ross Priddle" Subject: A PENNY DREADFUL (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ANNOUNCING THE MAY 2003 RELEASE OF gustave morin's A Penny Dreadful ... =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 160 pages, exquistely designed 'pop-noir' wraps over a sepia interior, ISBN 1-894663-41-1 CDN $21.95 : US $ 16.95 : UK =A39.95 : AUS $22.95 : JAPAN -- ? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D WHO : gustave morin, a virtual unknown, has finally sprung his 'minor opus' upon the world. WHAT : A Penny Dreadful is a self-proclaimed 'paper film', also known as a 'graphic novel'. WHERE : at finer bookstores in Canada, the United States, England, Australia, and Japan. You may also purchase the book online at Insomniac Press WHY : "the life so short, the craft so long to learn." ..,tempting permanence ain't easy... HOW : a long, drawn-out uphill battle involving clash of tooth and claw of nail the whole 100 yards. WHAT'S IT ABOUT ? : "its about ten years of my life..." says gustave morin, candidly. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Here's what critics are already saying about this book. ---------------------------------------------------------------- "A Penny Dreadful is the first book in canada to bring the proposition of the collage novel up to 21st century standards" -- Volker Nix "A Penny Dreadful is the collage novel that is already an instant midnight classic" -- p.mody "A Penny Dreadful is sure to dislodge a few of the mustier cobwebs in the current and stuffy atmosphere of so-called 'radical writing' in this country" -- Noe R. Portillo "A Penny Dreadful deftly fuses horror, rage and despair into a crisp jump-cut narrative about 'the bad life'" -- Dr. Roof A Penny Dreadful is what happens when you put Goya, Max Ernst and d.a.levy into a blender and press 'liquify'" -- Tod Ripke "A Penny Dreadful is the best garage-sale of ur-concrete i've ever seen" -- Hector Wheat-Gomez "A Penny Dreadful is a comic-book for shit-disturbers" -- gustave m. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D (CATALOGUE COPY...) Historically, the "penny dreadful" was a common form of popular literature, lavishly illustrated with garish and grotesque pictures depicting lurid crimes and shocking romance, circulating cheaply among the lower classes in 19th century England. A century and half later, this motif is revisited metaphorically in Gustave Morin's A Penny Dreadful. This time around, the crimes remain the same but all the romance is gone. A Penny Dreadful is a collage novel riding the coat-tails of the corpse of cinema. It is a self-proclaimed "paper film" which goes to the edge of the roof to expand the boundaries and expectations of what a suite of visual texts can be. Foremost among the many concerns driving the collection is the task of bringing the esoteric genre of the collage novel up to 21st century standards. A project one decade in the making, A Penny Dreadful is a large suite of works on paper that are neither literature nor graphic art, but a hybrid of the two. Fastidiously informed by an awareness of several marginal strains of literary activity, A Penny Dreadful is ultimately a blueprint for "borderblur." When the reader meanders through the nine chapters, a veritable crazy-quilt of 20th century imagery collides with mongrel semiotics to produce a culminative effect that is all too rare in graphic literature. Here is a garage sale of ur-concrete, trapping many fragments from a shattered consciousness into a jump-cut narrative about "the bad lif= e." A Penny Dreadful is a species of flip-book that invites multiple readings. While no reading is definitive, one major preoccupation is with being a newsreel of possibility for the uninitiated. A Penny Dreadful is both a comic-book for shit-disturbers and a tour through the margins where personal and social collapse are filtered through the lense of politcal impotence. 160 pages, with an "appendix" by the celebrated Canadian concrete poet jwcu= rry. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D for further information about this book, please contact Mike O'Connor at 1-416-504-6270 INSOMNIAC PRESS 192 Spadina Avenue, suite 403 Toronto, Ontario, Canada M5T 2C2 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D special bonus supplement =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D gustave morin's first interview / questions by Renee Tomsich for UPFRONT magazine, may 2003 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D 1. "A penny dreadful" was the term coined for small literary works from the 18th century that dealt most explicitly with tales of horror, gore and violence. Why did you choose such a title for your book?. penny dreadfuls, or penny 'bloods' as they were called, hail from mid-19th century england. they were slight works in terms of their literary value, but hardly small. in fact, they were enormously popular in their day, with a very wide circulation, and a big part of their appeal was the fact that each issue would have a large illustration on the cover which would depict some sordid act of violence, such as rape, mutilation or cannibalism. the largely illiiterate 'unwashed masses' would eat this up like it was going out of style, (though even the royalty got a guilty pleasure out of reading them as well). they were also serialized so there was a new one every week or so, with many publishers competing against one another, not unlike the magazine industry of today! so every issue would re-continue the same story that had left off the previous week at some dramatic moment in the propulsion of the story. this is where we get the expression 'cliff-hanger'. most of those stories have since fallen to the way-side, though quite a few still do live on. 'Robin Hood' was a penny dreadful whose myth has obviously endured. so is 'Varney the Vampire', the original story where Bram Stoker got most of his ideas for Dracula. 'Sawney Beane' was another, 'Sweeney Todd, the demon Barber of Fleet Street' was another. the list just goes on and on. Traces of this lost culture have definitely bled over into our culture. i chose this name for my book because i've been interested in penny dreadfuls since i was about 10 -- i've always liked scary and demented stories -- but also because i wanted to make a larger commentary on our general levels of literacy, particularily in the first world, where we are all supposed to be literate. in fact we are not. most of us read something every day, whether its a stop sign or a horoscope, but who really has the time for marcel proust when arnold schwartzenegger has a new multi-million dollar movie out? our culture is increasingly becoming a purely visual one. this is certainly not my idea, nor is it a new one. and since i've been working with what i like to think are essentially 'literary images' -- the book is a collection of concrete poerty -- the term 'a penny dreadful' seemed a very appropriate way to make this commentary on our culture, the one that places its premiums on the ease and speed of images over the actual work that is involved with reading the short stories of Saki, to name just one writer who has more to say than Arnold Schwartzenegger. and though i don't own a television, everyone else does -- which further illustrates my point. there are people in the world who would prefer to passively watch 'the wheel of fortune' over actively reading the poetry of Paul Celan, and that is something i can't understand. the expression also speaks of the graphic nature of the content of my book and the bloodthirsty pictures that were used to illustrate those original 'penny dreadful' stories way back when. the last point i'll make about the title of the book is that by adding an A to the expression 'penny dreadful', i've changed its meaning. "A penny, dreadful" is the way it should read. and this is a commentary on the poverty of my life, thus far. whether you know it or not, artists work harder than most people and they make less money too. that's another imbalance in our culture that drives me nuts. 2. What were your artistic influences/inspirations in making the book?. i don't like this question, but i'll try and answer it. the biggest influence on my work is the life that i lead. all my work comes out of my life, first and foremost. that is primary. the other artists and writers i like i can list, but they don't necessarily have any bearing on this book, or my work in general, so that won't really be helpful. as i mentioned, a penny dreadful is a collection of concrete poetry. no one in the world even knows what concrete poetry is, so it would be futile for me to name some of the writers i like that have also mined this vein. (and i'm not trying to be vague, i'm simply keeping in mind the readership of UPFRONT magazine...) since i was a kid i've had a love / hate relationship with comics. i similarly have a love / hate relationship to the cinema. i read everything: poets, novelists, philosophers, social-scientists, theorists, art history, the pulps -- really, a little bit of everything. some of my favorite global intelligences are: jwcurry, d.a. levy, f.a.nettelbeck, Bern Porter, Wallace Berman, Roland Topor, E.M.Cioran, Willard S. Bain, Oyvind Fahlstrom, Ian Hamilton Finlay, Werner Herzog, Ian Curtis, F.W.Nietzsche, Joseph Cornell, Mark Laba, Gordon Matta-Clarke, Marcel Duchamp, Antonin Artaud, Bill Knott, diter rot, ray johnson, Sidney Simes, Jess Collins, Gustave Verbeek, Ed Ruscha, Max Ernst, Goya, Ernest Buckler jr., Alfred Jarry, B.S. Johnson, William S.Burroughs, e.e.cummings, Northrope Frye, Thorstein Veblen, Cornell Woolrich, Ambrose Bierce, Heraclitus and Diogenes, just off the top of my head. this list could easily go on and on until there were 2000 names on it. (& people tell me constantly that i don't like anything!) 3. I'm told that you, essentially, self-published A Penny Dreadful. Can you describe how a local author can go about the same practice?. whoever told you that 'a penny dreadful' is self-published is seriously misinformed. you've seen the book -- its published by insomniac press in toronto. that's hardly 'self-published'. self-published means you bankroll the project yourself. with a penny dreadful, insomniac press paid to print and promote and distribute it and i receive a small royalty on every copy sold. i'm stepping up to the 'small time'. now, as an author, i must compete with every other writer, living and dead, past and present. and in north america alone, there are three hundred thousand books published a year, so i'm not exactly sitting pretty yet... as for local authors going about printing up their own work, if they can't figure out how to do that on their own, they have no business publishing in the first place. that's just my opinion. its really quite easy, but before you publish you must have something TO publish in the first place, and that's not so easy. go and talk to a printer. find a xerox machine and run copies off and fold and staple your books yourself. just try not to waste your reader's time -- make sure there is something there before you bother going through the expense of publishing, because there is already plenty of garbage in the world. THIS APPLIES EQUALLY TO WEBSITE CULTURE. 4. Do you find self-publishing is a fair means for artists/writers to have their works further accessible to a broader audience?. as a matter of fact, there are a whole slew of pro's and con's concerning self-publishing. one major pro is that when you publish something on your own you can do whatever the hell you want -- no committee of "experts" are telling you "no, that won't work, it'll never fly." etc. you get your manuscript together and then print whatever you had envisioned for the project and essentially you have the freedom to follow your own hunches. the other thing is that many publishers are quite stupid people -- they are myopic from being in the industry for too long, and they no longer have any idea what will go over in the public sphere. concrete poetry, for example, has a hard time finding courageous publishers despite the fact that people have been writing and reading it for at least 100 years. many many great books by fabulous authors first entered the world through self-publication. most of the poets in this county first got their foot in the door by printing their own work first. one major con of self-publishing is that most of the stuff that is self-published tends to be of a real low-grade calibre; -- its lacklustre mediocrity that is simply motivated by vanity. this gives all the authentic voices within the domain of self-publishing a pretty bad name. that's where the scorn for self-publishing enters the picture... ye olde "if you had to pay to have it published, it wasn't worth printing in the first place." of course, as i've said, there are some major major exceptions to this rule, so i don't believe the pomposity of that remark one bit. books are just not created equally. to answer your question, though, the problem with self-publishing arises when you now have 2000 copies of the same thing in your bedroom. without distribution, objects stay put. they don't go anywhere and you then wind up storing 1943 copies of the same book or cd or whatever, because you've exhausted your audience in the area in which you live and you have no audience on the other side of the country because all the copies of your book or cd are still in your bedroom. that's why distribution is important, and this is what a publisher can do for you that you can't do for yourself as a self-publisher, unless you get into the self-distribution racket. so, obviously its tricky! 5. Are you responsible for the promotion and marketing of A Penny Dreadful?. If so, what do you find are the most effective marketing tools?. How involved are you with the promotion of the book? the responsibility of the promotion and the marketing of any book rests squarely on the shoulders of both the publisher and the author, in every case. that's why authors give readings and do book tours. an effective marketing tool that i've personally applied to this project was to internationally spam over 3000 email addresses of art galleries and art organizations, and magazines and publishers and artists and writers... the whole nine yards. anyone who is anyone in the culture industry that i had the email contact address for knows about this book through the press release i had prepared for this express purpose. i've yet to see if it worked, but you are interviewing me as a result of that 2 day spam session last weekend... 6. Did you find it difficult to get the book published by a major publishing company? no, they contacted me. they knew about the project because its been in the works for years and years. but Insomniac Press are hardly a 'major publishing company'; they're more of a minor one, but still somewhat bigger than a 'small press'. (these distinctions are hardly important, but i offer them just the same.) 7. Are you familiar with other local authors such as Sean Byrnes and Lou Tortolla?. Do you have any association with them? Are you an advocate of the local arts, not solely through " common ground", but in other ways? i can't say i've heard of either Sean Byrnes or Lou Tortolla, and though i don't know everything, i've been publishing in this city since 1989, among the many other things i do -- they ought to get out more. i am an arts advocate in this city to the hilt. i not only run this gallery virtually by myself (which amounts to a full-time, part-time job) but i do it for very little money. and i've done it for 2 years. that alone is enough to make me a patron of the arts in this city. i don't give my money, i give my time and my energy, which is more important. before i was on payroll here, i'd been involved with this space going back as far as 1995. i've written for many of the publications in this city, i've curated shows here, i've given readings and done performances, i've published a few projects like the windsor salt, to name just one, i've sat on juries and steering committees for the arts, i've been a part-time preparator at the art gallery of windsor for the last 2 years, i try to attend most of the events and art openings that go on, i'm on a few boards, i've brought interesting people to this city and i've published 2 of my 4 books here in this city. i know most people who are and have been involved with the arts. i enjoy working with artists and i have no intention to stop anytime soon. on top of that, and maybe even more importantly, i've been participating in a larger arts discourse with the 'world community' for the last 13 years, which means that i'm looking outside of windsor too, and have an active life as an artist outside of this city. i don't really have a reputation as an artist in this city; i have a reputation as an intense guy with a big mouth, so this book is coming as a bit of a shock to a lot of people. 8. Is there a clear message you are trying to portray through the pages of A Penny Dreadful, or do you prefer your audience to internalize their own meanings from the book? there are lots of clear messages being portrayed in my book. its a novel and as such it is a container for one thousand and one different ideas. every chapter has its own theme and mood, and every page has a different message. i would like people to reach their own conclusions about the book, but that doesn't necessarily mean those conclusions will be the right ones! i have my own ideas about the book, but i built it to be a fun book to read, one that would cut across a very wide demographic. i think 15 year olds could just as easily enjoy it as much as 50 year olds and so i hesitate to say "this book is about what it means to be young, whilte, male, mis-educated, poor, tormented, alienated and disenfranchised living in canada during the nineties." it could be about that, but it could also be a pop-noir for the 21st century, and therefore nothing more and nothing less than one big put-on. see, i'm just pulling your leg. its a book of poems. its a novel. its a philosophic toy for the imagination. its a fundamental whatsit? its all those things. read it and see for yourself. 9. It seems to me that in certain images of the book, you are critiquing societal practices (i.e. the "normalcy" of a nuclear family, or even a capitalist system.) Is this correct? What are your opinions on this? the book is one long single penetrating and devastating critique of our society. i'm glad you picked up on that. i'm one of those people who is extremely unsatisfied with the way that things are and though i think i know what some solutions might be, i'm hardly going to waste my life being a politician. that's someone else's job. i simply observe and offer commentary and hope that it might be of use to someone else who might share similar positions. either way, i know i feel better after i've had a good bitch and expelled some of the venom this world inspires in me. i don't think there is such a thing as a normal nuclear family. as for capitalism, i have no problem with making money, especially when you work hard, i just think its a fairly repellant motive when it becomes an end in itself. that's what has fucked this planet up in the first place, isn't it? the bottom line is far too often over-rated. i miss the elements of socialism that canada had going for itself as little as 20 years ago. my generation missed out on that. -- welcome to canada. don't get sick. don't lose your job. pay more than the mimimum wage for a package of cigarettes. bow down, boy! mind the trucks swarming your village. you can't stop progress so don't even try.... ok, i may not be able to stop those trucks, or this city's lame municipal government, but that doesn't mean i have to like it. i write about those kind of things, sometimes. 10. When will the book be available in Canada? may 1st 2003 is the official date that 'a penny dreadful' hits the streets. the national launch takes place in toronto, but i won't be in attendance because i'm being forcibly evicted by the former assholes i used to live with. this will work to my ultimate benefit, because i'm going to have my own event in toronto when my life is less chaotic, and everyone who missed me the first time will make a point to check it out the next. so instead of making an appearance, i'm making a disappearance, which is cool. the book will also be available in the united states, england, australia and japan! 11. What are your plans for its release? Do you have events and/or book signings scheduled? my partner in crime, miss Oona Mosna and i together have a poetry project called gongo dodan. gongo dodan will furnish a performance to coincide with all the promotional events surrounding this project. that basically means we'll be giving slide-show readings with sounds and other effects. really lo-fi, but interesting for poetry, i daresay! we've done a few things in this city and we each have small reputations for rocking boats, individually and collectively. there are plans to perform / promote the book in windsor, toronto, detroit, ann arbor, sarnia, st. catherines and ottawa. more will be tacked on by the publishers if they can pay to send me to those places. seven cities so far though; this summer. 12. How important do you find A Penny Dreadful in terms of the importance of local artistic expression?. on one hand, the book has absolutely nothing to do with windsor, and on the other hand, i've lived here since 1980 and clearly windsor had something to do with shaping me. -- or warping me, i'm not entirely sure what windsor did to me? but undercurrents of some of that are written into the book, and if windsor wants to claim some of that then i'll not object. in another way too, this book proves that there are things happening here, and that things do come out of this city -- not just bands that move on to L.A. after they hit big. 13. What would you like your readers to extract (most importantly) from reading A Penny Dreadful?. i want people to feel like i've really given them something to chew on and savour. i worked very very hard on this book, years of my life have been spent on this book, and i want people to come away from the book aware of the unique experience i've given them. that's the main thing: that people enjoy it, because it was made for enjoyment. its a twisted little book, but also one that i think is fun. 14. What other works have you been involved with?. How have these influenced the making of A Penny Dreadful, if at all?. i've done gallery installations in and out of this city, i've worked in performance, in and out of this city, i've had work appear in no less than 80 international publications, i've edited several projects begining in 1991, i've published 3 other books, i conduct voluminous letter-mail correspondences with about 50 people all over the planet, and about triple that amount in email!, i was a printmaker for 2 years which put me in close contact with some very famous canadian artists, i've run an art gallery for 2 years, i treeplanted for 2 years, i've hopped freight-trains across this country and back and gone on a few shorter jaunts, on trains and hitch-hiking, i consider myself a prankster and i've dabbled in shit-disturbance as well as street-level interventionist art tactics, which i'm not at liberty to divulge, i've always basically worked in some form or another, often more than 2 jobs, if you count my art practise as a job: i was part of the first wave at the former eclectic cafe and stayed on for 3 years, i was a tooth courier for several years, i used to work in the bingo industry for most of the arts organizations in this city, last year i washed dishes to pay my rent, i've lived in a few other cities for spells, etc. i've gone through about 18 seasons in hell to come out the other end with a few stories to tell. & i'm 30, going on 60. 15. What is your favorite element of the book, and why?. =20 the part about a penny dreadful that i like the most is the fact that the ink is sepia. that makes it a really unusual book, and i like that. the decision to do this was a very early one, made in about 1997, but it has taken 6 years for me to see whether it would work. its part of a larger conceptual framework -- i've already started writing my next book, which will be printed in cyan. so i'm writing a set of blue and brown books, just like the proto-semiotic philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein. the brown book is about the past, the blue book is about the future. that's the general idea, anyway. the great thing about this sepia aspect of the book is that it is a quiet homage to a well known local writer named Eugene Macnamara who was at one time "the king of the small press in canada". He published a book called 'Screens' in 1977, and that book also was printed in sepia, and it became the model for the sepia in my book. coincidentally, i happened to see him walking down the street a few days ago and so i ran up to him to give him a copy of a penny dreadful. i told him "this book is Screens 2003; i used your book as the sepia model for mine" and he said in his humble way, "oh, i'm very touched". which was a great compliment. so in canadian literature in the past 25 years there have been 2 brown books that have come out of windsor: Eugene Macnamara's and mine. that's a cool windsor fact! april 26th 2003 ___________________ COMMON GROUND c/o Mackenzie Hall 3277 Sandwich St. West Windsor, ON N9C 1A9 / Canada ph: 519.252.6380 email: url: http://www.mnsi.net/~common Hours of Operation: Tues - Fri, 1-5pm A new exhibit every two weeks! Visit the new space! Admission is free! Questions? Direct them to... gustave morin, ADMINISTRATOR! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 21:10:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Theory as a multi-threaded neuro discourse MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It is possibly coincidental that Pound has already been evoked on one of these threaded discourses that wend across my computer screen. Pound is referenced by Stewart in her discussion of the transference of emotion through poetry (Poetry and the Fate of the Senses). She discusses Pound's "I" as it becomes "ye" in "On His Own Face in the Glass" and "Coda" where, as she says, we are shown "the self turning away from its own image in the desire to recover what is truly its own and what it truly has lost - its own dead, its own beloved faces in the faces of others." before this gets swallowed by theory and side-issue-squabbles let me say that Stewart does a worthy job of tracing the philosophical antecedents to her conclusion that poetry is privileged in making something of nothing in its participation both in the "generalizations of inherited systems of meaning and the particularities of expression...."concrete universals"...the fate of pain, the fate of sense impression, the fate of emotional outpouring are the finality of aesthetic form; but, even given this finality, aesthetic form constantly is put under pressure to change and renew itself in order to accommodate what time and experience have brought to it." (327 - 328) Am I laughing because I'm laughing? [P. Ekman. Facial expression of emotion. American Psychologist, 1993, 48, 384-392] Or because you are? ["The main implication is, the way we understand the emotions of other people is by simulating in our brain the same activity we have when we experience those emotions," Iacoboni says. - from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences] Or is there a joke in the poem on the table before me or am I writing a humorous poem or reading a poem that is a joke? do I laugh at you or with ye or do we 'write' a poem we see on the page or feel in our guts Or does the pain disappear if I have no words for her or is she only experienced by my dopple or gawky other? Sontag wraps and dismisses them since "we don't get it"! And yet I'm not sure that the assertions here [her assertions, other assertions] are accurate poeticognitiveneuropsychoimmunologically speaking as it were where there is still two ways of reading the data and pictures there, the pretty ones of the brain sprawled naked before us with the reds and blues scanned onto disc onto the net and read by my software eidetically spanning the gap: it can be read as static or as process. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the arteries i GUESS or like Pound am I bound to become bound UP in the I or is it ye? ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:11:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: query re: LA scene In-Reply-To: <000601c31348$ac61f5e0$8f9966d8@CADALY> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >well, LA is of course a major international city No. It is a USAmerican city in California. -- George Bowering I love your shoes. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 20:05:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Moon Lizards Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ROT SANDAL: Listen to this one. A man, his wife, and his daughter walk into a desert, right? They wander around, they're lost, and they're starving. The wife offers herself up as food, ok?, but the guy says no, he'll be the meal. But the woman says no, too. They reason that being a single parent is no way to go at things. So they eat the kid. THIMBLE PINCH: They're stupid. They shudda ate a lizard or something. ROT SANDAL: There are no --- THIMBLE PINCH: There ARE lizards in the desert. There are lizards everywhere, except the moon. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 00:24:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory and neurocognitive theory MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT a bit defensive but you've demonstrated that poets are able to grapple directly with these scientific articles in their original form rather than wait for a theoretician to hand down received wisdom. I feel a little like David Antin here (pretentiously) encouraging experimentation but there is a wealth of interesting material in thousands of neuropsych articles on nearby library shelves or accessible via computer. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 03:23:29 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: ryan fitzpatrick Subject: Fwd: filling Station magazine Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >As of our next issue, number 27 (to be launched in mid-May), the cover >price for filling Station will be $8 and subscription prices will be $22 >for one year and $38 for two years. If you purchase a subscription before >the end of June 2003, you can enjoy filling Station for $20 a year or $35 >for two years. > >Your subscription will begin with number 26, featuring new writing from >Robert Kroetsch, Margaret Christakos, David Fujino, Ryan Camstra, Spencer >Shelby and more. Number 27 contains new material by Robert Fitterman, >nathalie stephens and an interview with Suzette Mayr. Number 27 will also >boast a new and stunning design. > >If you're interested in subscribing, please send cheques (payable to the >filling Station Publications Society) to: > > filling Station > PO Box 22135 > Bankers Hall > Calgary, AB > T2P 4J5 > >International orders are payable in US funds. > >Thank you for your support, > >Natalie Simpson >Managing Editor >filling Station > >Please forward this message to everyone whom you think it might interest. >Thank you. > > > _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 22:41:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: ANY TIME ANY PLACE (excerpt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Mark, This really drew me. I returned to it several times today to consider it, reading, scrolling around for senses of it. What seems imminent--thus fascinating to me--in Any Time Any Place is three dimensional movement. The entire piece seems (perhaps b/c of the intertwining curves) ready to step off the screen/implied page, to start twirling around the room or the street--like a word-top on its own (in fact it looks in not a bad way a tiny bit tornado-ish, maybe dust-devilly, she said, speaking from Texas experience... ). But it also seems very insistent on being its own alphabetic, integrated self or phenomena. Very nice paradoxes in all that. Thanks for posting it! Chris Murray ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 00:06:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: On the Genealogy of Machines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On the Genealogy of Machines Given that machinery is in general (and I am only speaking in general) created from machinery, one might begin by specifying a chain A -> B -> C, or, more generally, Mn -> Mn+1 -> Mn+2, of machines. Consider every such chain a lineage, noting, again in general, that Mn is temporally prior to Mn+1. Thus Mn "makes" Mn+1 and so forth. [Of course there are issues of maintenance and repair, and the production of component parts for these purposes. Before long, the formalism becomes a thicket; hence a beginning direction is a consideration of a temporally-linear holarchy of fluid sets and subsets, without contradictory feedback.] First, -> is transitive; that is, given the series above, Mn -> Mm, provided Mn and Mm exist within the same lineage, and n < m. [Is an intransitive lineage possible? It depends on the meaning of ->. One might consider, for example, an exploding-machine, or a machine whose implicate ordering is permanently lost, or a stochastic machine. For practical purposes, this would create a break or rupture in the establishment of lineage; for theoretical purposes, however, the lineage, on a practico-material level, remains intact.] Second, note that -> is non-symmetrical; if Mn -> Mm, then not Mm -> Mn. And third, -> is non-reflexive; Mn cannot build itself (self-bootstrapping ab nihilo). [Of course Mm could build Mn at a later time - Mn is then an equivalent, but not temporally-equivalent, machine. And just as genident- ity is described by Reichenbach for states and objects, one might have a genidentity of processes or chains of processes; a machinic lineage is an example.] [Along with non-reflexivity, identity as a noticing or operation also disappears. We are dealing with incipient industrializations, typifications, and so on - see below.] Now in general, every production is a splay, such that Mn -> {Mn+1}k, where k references a set of equivalent machines. And further, {M}j -> {M'}k. This is to be read - a group of disparate machines M operate in series, parallel, or another holarchic configuration, to produce a series of equivalent machines M'; the first are indexed by j, and the latter by k. Here again it is to be assumed that {M}j are temporally prior to {M'}k. This formulation is a general lineage; the components j are transitive as well as the ensemble in its entirety. The ontology is that of the practico-material substrate of the world-order. [A splay, in this instance, is a particulate emission. Thus the production of a new model of camcorder is a splay of equivalent, but non-identical, machines. The operations of the disparate machines collapse into the fuzzy singularity of splay - the production of a particular model. Note that any one of the disparate machines is transitive in relation to the splay and the descendents of the splay, but this is all sub-set; no one of the disparate machines produces the splay in its entirety. Every technological object, every machine, inherits from numerous disparate machines, even if it itself produces only a singular descendent (for example, a series of videotapes of a particular format, from a camcorder).] Given the potential for continuous production, it should be noted as well that feedback loops of a sort may also be realized. Thus, if M'k itself produces a component x that can replace a component Mj, then a new collapse {M}j' is initiated, in which Mx occurs, continuing the production of M'. Of course this contradicts the ontology of the practico-material substrate, since we are now talking about a temporally later splay; the feedback is negated as such in relation to the temporal linearity of the production. [I see this as a red-herring, whose analysis, inordinately complex, falls under the aegis of the social philosophy of technology, the consumption and production of new models, issues of fashion and functionality, etc. For the moment it is only to be noted that feedback is never a-temporal, but always after the fact; in an operational amplifier, for example, the speed of feedback - close to the speed of light in the return loop - may appear to act synchronously upon events, but this is only the result of the relative difference between the temporal magnitude of events and looping - a difference of great magnitude.] There is no first tool N1; every tool presupposes another. There is no originary tool N0 as well. [The presupposition is, of course, as fuzzy as everything else; one might carve a hand-axe with 'natural' elements, or make a walking-stick by breaking a branch. But the machinic itself is part and parcel of the body; culture is always technological. Likewise, just as there is no origin for language, there is no originary tool; the pointing-finger is a tool for direction, the turning-head a vision-tool, and so forth. Likewise, there is no implied transcendence as well - only an inchoate series of fuzzy shifts.] There is no identity operation; equivalences are defined by models, typifications, tolerances, and the like. There is forking which results in equivalence, and collapsed forking which results in collapse-production. The moment of production is always contains a parasitology of noise and an energy input; the moment, in fact, plays/splays into issues of thermodynamic and cybernetic entropy. [Thus the machinic is the self-play or jostling of the world. And the world is a world of information, encodings, ruptures, and dissolutions: The world is the aegis of the word. The world is the aegis of the world.] According to this model, the machinic is inseparable from the bodies which augment, prostheticize, and catalyze it; technology and biology are mutually emergent. [And both are mutually submerged as well - tacit as well, within the originary non-existent moment of language. The epistemology at work is one of elision, ellipsis, erasure, gliding...] Who has traced back even a single lineage, for example, that of a needle-nosed pliers, into its components, ancestors, materials, entropies, production energies? After one or two generations, everything is lost; the machines among us carry the signs of lineage, but these become quickly inchoate, lost in the heat and fire of molding, forging, mixture, and so forth. Every machine is an erasure, appearing as if born from nothing, tending towards everything. Every machine is a stranger among us, including our own flesh, our own bodies; the world is transformed into a re/productive mirror. [Every machine cauterizes, eliminates, its ancestry; in a sense, that is a major characteristic of machinery, whose domain is that of functionality - a domain within which both history and memory are intrusions.] [A memory machine is a contradiction in terms; a memory machine reproduces the other. Within the chain A -> B -> C, every machine, every term, is isolated; A operates and conspires in the production of B, but A is already a withdrawal, a cleansing. B has entered another sub-world altogether, another domain or phenomenological horizon. It is always the case, and it is in this sense that the world is always the case.] ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 00:04:04 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Dze Ztandard !nzkr!pz!on MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dze Ztandard !nzkr!pz!on !kl mAzZur-naz!r-apl! tzang! AzZur n!-tz!t !lu B!l u !lu Adar na-ra-= !lu A-n!m u !lu Da-gan ka-tzu-uz !lan! pl rabut!pl zarru dan-nu tzar k!zZat! tzar matuAzZur apl Tukult!-Adar tzarr! rab!-! tzarr! dan-!l tzar k!zZat! tzar matuAzZur apl Raman-n!rar! zar k!zZat! tzar matuAzZur-ma !t-lu kar-du tzan !na tukul-t! AzZur b!l-tzu !ttala-ku-ma !na ml-k!pl tza k!b-rat !rb!t-ta tza-n!n-tzu la-a !zu-u am!lur!! tab-ra-a-t! la a-d!-ru tukunt! !-du-u gab-tzu za ma-h!-ra la-a !zu-u tzarru muzak-n= la kan-tzu-t!-tzu tza nap-har k=-tzat n!z!pl !-p!-lu z!karu dan-nu mu-kab-b!-= k!zad a-a-b!-tzu da-a-= kul-lat nakrut!pl mu-pa-r!-ru k!-=-r! mul-tar-h! tzarru tza !na tukul-t! !lan!pl rabut!pl b!l!pl-tzu !ttala-ku-ma matat!pl kal!-tz!-na kat-tzu takzu-ud hur-tza-n! kal!-tzu-nu !-pl-lu-ma b!-lat-tzu-nu !m-hu-ru tza-b!t l!-!-t! tza-k!n l!-!-t! !l! kal!-tz!-na matat!pl. AzZurnaz!rpl. __ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 00:17:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: The Rose Poets' Manifesto MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit as a Poet Templar we disavow the Rose and Cross those Rosicrucian plotters we exist we are real we are the 36 invisibles Remember Jacques de Molay and wait for the secret for it waits for you ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Nelson" To: Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 5:07 PM Subject: The Rose Poets' Manifesto > The Rose Poets if ever asked in an interview would say that they believe > In the transcendence of nature > In the existence of a shadowy world that courses beneath the surface of this world and is only visible in the half-lights of spring and autumn > That poetry is sculpture > That all people, from time to time, look like Giacommetti figures > The Mormons of Utah would appreciate our work > That poetry is a blood-borne pathogen often sexually transmitted > > If ever anthologized the foreword would state that The Rose Poets > listened to the voices in the roses that crawl up through barbed thorns & onto petals to be are carried off by the bees-destined to become the honey-tonic of this sour world > > The Rose Poets are real We are holding casting calls right now & > We are--however unfortunate that maybe--rather serious about some of this > > Visit www.voicesintheroses.com to read some Rose Poets' poems or to submit your own work for publication. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 03:46:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: EedleNeedleMY President MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII EedleNeedleMY President needle-noM! lOvO!Ong honored preMY_presO!OdentO!Odented plO!OkoRpoRateM! lOvO!Ong honored preMY_presO!OdentO!Odent, O!On4 O!OtM! lOvO!Ong honored preMY_presO!OdentO!Odent keyomponentM! lOvO!Ong honored preMY_presO!OdentO!Odent, anzeM! lOvO!Ong honored preMY_presO!OdentO!OdenttorM! lOvO!Ong honored preMY_presO!OdentO!Odent, maM! 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PREMY_presO!OdentO!OdENTorld = alwayM! lOvO!Ong honored preMY_presO!OdentO!Odent PkoRpoRatephatect PresO!Odent ophatascist! m9nee keyaM! lOvO!Ong honored preMY_presO!OdentO!Odente.] ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 01:46:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: toll booth collector MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit WALT HOWARD TOLL BOOTH COLLECTOR #107 [excerpt] www.thescare.com Peripheral bus architecture see-Regional Water Quality Control Board. Cold Plate Label visible thermal infrared radiometer Crew Equipment Integration Test Airport Communications Office Automated Voice Network mended picked up Simple Authentication Educational Foundation Nuclear Science Trust Anybody there remained also//www.businessobjects.com Jump Above Java how matters stood they any objections have extremely low frequency Automated Voice Network hired interim status compliance letter O'Donahue felt Image Motion Compensation Processing power Hardware Organic/Optical Photoconductor Narrowband Socket National Bureau Standards Image Motion Compensation Normal Manual Operation Center Research on Parallel Computation Processing power Hardware attitude calibration module Microsoft Computer-Assisted Industrial Gas Cleaning Institute Interrupt Set broadcast Preferences file name extension Grammatik IV hours Hardware Communication include universities research Water Pump Package Network Element supports both PHIGS PHIGS. 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International Television Academy entry level PDAs Sun sonobuoy missile impact location system Manual Rushbrook took Ghost Sweeper Mikami Universal Plug Play makes International Conference on Parallel Processing £ there no global change category lost. weLCoMe permanent memory chip Kilopulses per Second estimation Time Zero me Combined Federal Campaign have sinned have Combined Federal Campaign punished Why Peter what yttrium iron garnet Processing power Hardware marine NASA Wide Area Network Chopper. Small Mass Measurement Device Otaku no Video bosoms There longings servings yearnings queen Communication Separation feels partiality chlorobromo-methane dared Synchronization between two video format which frames Operating System Get Execute blast door interlock WALT HOWARD TOLL BOOTH COLLECTOR #109 [excerpt] www.thescare.com Association their idols Application Interface Government Telecommunications Network network use one set IP Super Density Service Control Point purser received when Transparent Asynchronous Transmitter/Receiver Interface Program Tech Information Portsmouth which Henry. Integration Box extended weather information display there Verification Control Document Target insertion orbit so Why Receiver Ready Resources Defense Council Campbell Embedded Memory Block. 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Print Server Control Open Skies permanently Source Object-Oriented File outward forms Mission Complement Analysis little Joey Indian Satellite comprehended how integrated test lines stood Professional Giant Magneto-Resistive maiden met their Software Version Conflict bournous they Hydrogen Line long Flight Systems Laboratory which they observed Launch Package Integration Facility --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 01:48:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: parking enforcement agent MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit ARTHUR GODWIT PARKING ENFORCEMENT AGENT #120 [excerpt] www.thescare.com designate Abandoned Mine Reclamation IP voice Australia bleak Abandoned Mine Reclamation personage This meanwhile minds of Information Planning Group engrossed avatar by alandarr of Financial Management Systems Acid Deposition System was once the Lizze GAP gently albmbur airlock adapter plate shuttle Geological Survey Division countenances avatar they looked illustrious Antimicrobial Resistance the abject National Aeronautics Space Cochise Resource Center grovelling on.geng cronies Type Service all in der the worse for the communications Going Conference Better Jobs Income Program could waste up IP voice bisync European Telecommunications Kennedy Polar Orbiting Environmental factors United states wants assembly task team Power Distribution Control are not National Space Science Data from IP voice database-management system recognizable milestones leaves half Group Technologies elements Program Risk Assessment Board mark's Archive System regret Olaf nægan which I meets antenna controller Group Technologies - Cartographers spilling the Resources Nature Museum When the Research Initiative which you were not Oregon Transect Ecosystem having Office Commercial Programs Cochise Resource Center communications Leeds Environment Centre Earth Works Group countrymen Cochise Resource Center Ministry Construction which is athurrka document the exile Ministry Construction Doc replied These papers are the Cochise Resource Center took Group Technologies Fussweg Footpath was Geographical Society the Low Level Control Module rising from Group Technologies Geographic Names Information magister Fall Classic Mine Rescue Laboratory eruptions which last alomiy TEmperature-SAlinity-Currents the 1948 Hazardous Waste Research WPA the United Aquatic Resources Low Level Control Module Services Interim Program Preliminary rapier the 1972 Antiballistic looking from Training Committee Abandoned Mine Reclamation waiting for the judge Low Level Control Module Australian New Zealand flowers commercial mission withering the interrupt request Centre de Recherches en Administration fledgling Berkeley Internet Name Domain airlock adapter plate shuttle low gain antenna optical media for Rwanda charnging many Low Level Control Module Educational Networking my pratt Working Group on Information output bisync You are talking of meanwhile ember Information Resources Payload Information Management the virtual processing of anychir down plough-urge airlock adapter plate shuttle Abandoned Mine Reclamation Environment Integrated Operations Scenario Fall Classic Mine Rescue Center Information Officer Environmental Appeal Board Facility should International Conference on commercial mission grieved uthibar Division Natural Resources Southeastern Universities Illinois Waterfowlers Alliance of Abandoned Mine Reclamation Foundation Environmental Facility Cochise Resource Center Illinois State Agencies OnLine Illinois Fairgoer Services Tropical Ocean Global Agricultural Network Juvenal window the Environment Natural the European Geographical tricks of music airlock adapter plate shuttle Abandoned Mine Reclamation Foundation Environmental History Mine Safety of the convent for Maple Syrup Connection Cochise Resource Center Concept Development Group Plan Better Jobs Income Program Western Test Range Land Use Environmental It's Commission secret avatar many Hitler-monk dry copper bisync Conference Group Technologies half-International Commission United Nations Environment Cochise Resource Center relapse of my answers Low Level Control Module I Interim Program Preliminary is ember Digital Data Storage iewan are hrycg said apharanggal Olaf Abandoned Mine Reclamation ambung commercial mission International du Tapis as ember IP voice the Upper Memory Block harm Low Level Control Module Illinois Bureau Soil Cochise Resource Center this of affairs Multilateral Control Board -Nature Museum estimates Development Finance Company mearh of the Greatest leg ARTHUR GODWIT PARKING ENFORCEMENT AGENT #121 [excerpt] www.thescare.com Extravehicular/External for You central processing unit stations Imaging Radiometer Regional Environment point-gets CATV Electrically Scanning application partitioning Countries of the has borrowed the finite-element array Illinois Community College Networks repairability Economic Bob & error universe finite-element array life Geologisches Landesamt Baden- is going gonzo Outsiders Association SouthEast Asian the configuration management came up repairability video random-access memory nondestructive evaluation asked on video random-access memory You're Advanced Cartographic Systems Johnny Caress Peter hasn't Florida Assn. 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Consolidated Control Center origins of Networks deop furþur configuration management Data descriptive area the crunch of gravel Processor Resource Allocation Daphne's Rectification/Registration once asked edo what's the secret of Union Radical Political Geologisches Landesamt Baden- African Training Research universe are constantly olk Mitsu network layer asked the cryogenic fluid storage of repairability the coining This the Computers of olong furþur Flight Operations Support served finite-element array Regional Environment Geologisches Landesamt Baden- finite-element array Lowell Networks finite-element array Field Project Office Geologisches Landesamt Baden- is sculan anyone Cassa di Risparmio delle Dhrystones daughter furþur glanced back Waste Management Compartment of data entry clerk cock But network layer cumming like video random-access memory beak capable finite-element array European Union the breach between fighting video random-access memory Information System Processing Facility was Tasmanian Earth Resources coat Packers Stockyards Australian Resources I went finite-element array video random-access memory on the Networks Geologisches Landesamt Baden- Center Women's Resources night my head is Waste Management Compartment data entry clerk jeans ge-secgan edo Electrical, Environment ARTHUR GODWIT PARKING ENFORCEMENT AGENT #122 [excerpt] www.thescare.com ætgædere Peter was interface was ewarr Quality Board from Satellite the attentions of us the intelligence face oðspringan the Extraordinary PC memory map olpong boasting Organization the invariably frequency-modulated response Quality Board abreoðan language weak typing Optical Sensors eventuation of the th Information System before I crabba weak typing oðspringan frequency-modulated Australian Resuscitation second TV board lawyers aren't Engineering Technical/Test coarse/crew optical alignment ccs Technology Resource Group for Assembly Maintenance forgave Bullitt okol was not per clock Optical Sensors 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Tahoe Regional Planning Agency company Government Communications Graphics Products Division Salinity/Temperature/Depth Kei's people Quality Board retirees amay service track assembly shrine wavelength-division Apple Open Collaboration Lake Management Program Processing Processing Package Geochemists Solar Array Electrical Quality Board assembly reported something I thought this Tracking Data Acquisition Western Mining Corporation I Eastern Regional Remote Quality Board JSC Management Instruction replied Transmission Control Digital Point Positioning Data If I was Redwing chuckled Government Communications was full of six odh Lines Soil Conservation Service implementors' agreement playing Nigeria scima Quality Board field effect transistors weak typing amay Statement robes Integrated Social Sciences stood up weak typing backed Quality Board EDWA off folks excrement dripping Your Guidelines is confess Atmospheric Dynamic Payload delivery Surveys Mapping Remote injection loss for okol Individual Equipment Liner Kit you back frequency-modulated large Fee Determination Official the Evaluation Management than Geologian Tutkimuskeskus-selling alternate landing site regional maximum likelihood estimation Government Communications tools Access Control System Quality Board Individual Civil Penalties without do Integrated Social Sciences boasting Assembly Maintenance --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/24/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 06:45:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Pound Organization: Bilkent University Subject: intermedia synergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For a critical project I'm working on, I am collecting statements by = artists that discuss the production of one type of art in the mode of = another. Here are three examples of the kind of statement I am looking = for: "We tried to use the cameras the way musicians used their instruments." = D.A. Pennebaker referring to the making of Don't Look Back. =20 "I was doing what the cinema was doing." Gertrude Stein describing her = composition techniques in the Portraits =20 "One's contemporaries, in the truest sense of the term, are always = artists who use another medium." Ezra Pound Any contributions from listmembers to this collection of statements = would be most appreciated. Backchannel please (I will post the results = of my query once they have been compiled) All best, Scott Pound ________________________ Scott Pound Assistant Professor Department of American Culture and Literature Bilkent University TR-06800 Bilkent, Ankara TURKEY +90 (312) 290 3115 (office) +90 (312) 290 2791 (home) +90 (312) 266 4081 (fax) pounds@bilkent.edu.tr http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~pounds ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 06:46:47 -0400 Reply-To: devineni@rattapallax.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ram Devineni Organization: Rattapallax Subject: Rattapallax Brazilian parties/readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Everyone: I would like to invite you to join us for two Rattapallax Brazilian bashes. Later today, our editors are reading at Soft Skull Bookstore and on Friday is our big launch reading with Brazilian music, food, drinks, and poetry!!! Cheers Ram Devineni Publisher Edwin Torres, Flavia Rocha & Chris Daniels May 6, 2003 at 7:00 pm Soft Skull Bookstore (softskull.com) 71 Bond Street (at State St.) Brooklyn, NY FREE. Rattapallax 9 Launch Party!!! May 9, 2003 at 7:30 pm WhiteBox Gallery, 525 West 26th Street=20 (between 10th and 11th Avenues) NYC. FREE. Hosted by Edwin Torres & Fl=E1via Rocha. DJ Derek Beres. Featuring Cecilia Vicu=F1a, Todd Colby, Willie Perdomo, Brian Stefans, Marcella Durand, Ange Mlinko, Rodrigo Toscano, Paul Skiff, Chris Daniels, Magdalena Zurawski, Jena Osman, Matias Mariani, and many others. Additional information at: http://www.rattapallax.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 07:41:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: US Poet laureates meet In-Reply-To: <3EB68B3B.50F3D06A@delhi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Has anyone seen a report in the US press on a recent gathering of US=20 poet laureates in New Hampshire? Just came across the following report=20= in the German newspaper "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" -- no time to=20= translate the thing myself, but here is an instant Babelfish version: " Poetry and Politics " American singing follows that By Friederich Mielke =A0 05. =A0 May =A0 2003 =A0 one has might actually expect protest and=20 proclamation. After the roofridge lady Laura Bush America poet had=20 unloaded only in and then, which were " Anthologie Poets Against the "=20= had appeared (F.A.Z. of 1 and 8 February) and finally the Iraq war an=20 end found, now nineteen American state poets met in New Hampshire, in=20 order to discuss seal and politics. But the conference of the Poetae laureati had been already planned=20 before two years, and the original program was not faithful the=20 anti-war protest the central topic of " Poetry and Politics ", the=20 first conference of of Americas semi-official poets. The conference=20 ran without eclat. Even the recent scandal around Amairi Baraka, the=20 state poet of new jersey, played no more role. Baraka had explained in=20= a poem, the Israelis from the plans for the notices from 11 September=20 would have known and would have been silent. " New Barbarei in the Near East " Some state States of attacks on the Bush government nevertheless=20 dared. Maxine Kunin, America Nationaldichterin of 1981, called the=20 foreign policy of its country " a new Barbarei in the Near East. "=20 Grace Paley, acting Staatsdichterin of Vermont, Friedensaktivistin and=20= " cooperative Anarchistin ", certified George W. Bush " a careless "=20 language and criticized the adapted and uncritical medium landscape: "=20= Many politicians lie. They repeat these lies, until the people=20 believes them. That was already Hitler's trick. " And inches Bryant Voigt, former Vermonter Staatsdichterin, deplored=20 the tiny post, which is intended in the American household for=20 education - ridiculously compared with 380 billion dollar for the=20 military: " Of Americas culture and spirit by the state are neglected.=20= " Jim Irons from Idaho had rejected, showed up the Iraq war however=20 now contently with the fact that he had been led briefly and violently.=20= However Larry Woiwode from North Dakota went so far endorsing the Iraq=20= war that the Bush government. Woiwode - poets and Rhetoriker - is=20 member the Non partisan League of North Dakota, its son serves as a=20 captain of a Black Hawk Hubschrauberstaffel. " Of Americas seal one Renaissance experiences " But the political expressions were located in the background. One=20 discussed poetry, seal as language work of art, as precise and artistic=20= expression of reality. " No propagandists are closer ", said Fleda=20 Brown, poet laureate of Delaware, and Maggi Vaughn from threshing floor=20= lake announced, it understands themselves as Volksdichterin and not as=20= a politician. The peaceful spirit of the spring of New Hampshire offered Dana Gioia=20= a podium, to the boss that " national Endowment for the kind. " As a=20 festredner of the Gala Dinners Gioia celebrated the return of the=20 American poets to the market place. In a large hotel in Manchester it=20= nobilitierte before the met state poets and critics the poet meeting to=20= a historical event in American culture history: " Of Americas seal an=20= enormous Renaissance experiences. A large rearousing seized the=20 country for approximately fifteen years. The poets returned in the=20 Mainstream of the culture life. " Vital movement Gioia stepped out even as a poet. " The Norton Anthology OF Poetry "=20= (1996) printed two of its poems - " Prayer " and " The NEXT Poem. its=20 thesis may sound surprising for some observer, it found meanwhile much=20= Beiklang. So far the American dichtkunst was obscure elitaer,=20 academically, formalistic and. Of Americas poets are part of the academic subculture. Now however=20 the spirit of the time changed, the today's seal is again part of the=20 popular culture: Poem volumes would stand on the best-seller lists, a=20= vital movement the country seized. The number " of the ritual places=20 for poet readings ", schools, libraries, Caf=E9s, constantly increases. =20= And finally, in the high point of the speech, Gioia explained: " The=20 American Poeta laureatus is an activist. It is the collective memory=20 of the people. " Gioia received standing Ovations. It must have pleased the poets that=20= the highest guard so positively spoke about the small national Pfruende=20= about the value of the seal in the American society. Or other honour=20 poet grummelte over the adapted tendency. But unterm line was one=20 itself united: Of Americas state poets are no rebels. Frankfurt general newspaper, 06,05,2003, NR. 104/page 35 =A0 ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 08:54:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: AMNINA LAWAL SET TO BE STONED ON 3RD JUNE In-Reply-To: <167.1d034b4f.2b9e45ac@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, This is one instance in which, believe it or not, you may actually be able to make a difference. -m. - -- ---AMNINA LAWAL SET TO BE STONED ON 3RD JUNE--- -- - The Nigerian Supreme Court has upheld the death sentence for Amina Lawal, condemned for the crime of adultery on August 19th 2002, to be buried up to her neck and stoned to death. Her death was postponed so that she could continue to nurse her baby. Execution is now set for June 3rd. If you haven't been following this case, you might like to know that Amina's baby is regarded as the 'evidence' of her adultery. The father denied everything when he realised the trouble he was in. To find out more about sharia law, see http://www.guardian.co.uk/theissues/article/0,6512,777972,00.html Amina's case is being handled by the Spanish branch of Amnesty International, which is attempting to put together enough signatures to make the Nigerian government rescind the death sentence. A similar campaign saved another Nigerian woman, Safiya, condemned in similar circumstances. By March 4th the petition had amassed over 2,600,000 signatures. It will only take you a few seconds to sign Amnesty's online petition. Go to the web page http://www.amnistiaporsafiya.org/ Enter your first name in the space marked "nombre", last name ("apellidos"), county ("provincia"), country, and in the drop down box pick "Estados Unidos" (United States)...unless you're timmy and live in Alemania. Then click on "Seguir" and go to the second page. There you have the option of entering your email address if you wish to receive follow-up information. In any case, be sure to click on "aceptar" to have your name added to the petition list. Please sign the petition now, then copy this message into a new email and send it to everyone in your address book. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:24:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Bouchard Subject: Fwd: 2003 Boston Poetry Marathon conference Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > >________________________________________________________________ > > > >2003 BOSTON POETRY MARATHON > > > > > >Thursday, June 5 : 7pm-10pm > >Friday, June 6 : 7pm-10pm > >Saturday, June 7: 2pm-5pm and 7pm-10pm > >Sunday, June 8: 2pm-5pm and 7pm-10pm > > > >at the Art Institute of Boston, 700 Beacon Street in Kenmore Square > > > > > >This year's readers will include: Jean Valentine, John Yau, Maxine > >Chernoff, Paul Hoover, Fanny Howe, Bin Ramke, Forrest Gander, Lee Ann > >Brown, Tom Sleigh, Martine Bellen, David Shapiro, Sarah Manguso, Sam > >Truitt, Jim Behrle, Mark Bibbins, Maria Damon, Daniel Bouchard, Diane > >Wald, Sean Cole, Thomas Fink, Linda Russo, Joanna Fuhrman, Prageeta > >Sharma, Arielle Greenberg, Aaron Kiely, Wanda Phipps, Aaron Kunin, Dick > >Lourie, Lori Lubeski, Paisley Rekdal, Douglas Rothschild, Mike Sikkema, > >and others > > > >For more info, contact Donna de la Perriere, Joanna Fuhrman, or Joseph > >Lease at: > > >bostonpoetry@thevortex.com > > > > > >* This year's conference will be dedicated to the memory of fiction writer > >James Anthony Assatly (1963-1993). ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 07:37:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: doggie in the window extension of In-Reply-To: <1052225689.3eb7b09973b9c@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable doggie in the window extension of noise without dots suggest effect of things a basic ingredient for color in certain areas nothing is a color, but sells reflections points mechanical at first, conflicted later evidenced in high contrast window signs a signs can appear as a series of followings that float or are on a=20 point conditions appear with an allusion of an A or B taste is a door of a different rope entirely part impression part long words preferably the walking kind with implication of superior voice-overs and that =93on going feeling=94 feeling is a subject broached only as a things in certain areas appears out of complex extensions and declines between points and or under buttons the object - real or imagined is found in a sentence somewhere there a moments that something continues the subject believes in persistence of vision ability is in suspension killing time no longer an option the landscape is wheeled away at this point something ordinary happens mechanical at first a delay is followed preceded by a series of escapes singular features become present makers of sound all in proportion to the point and sign in the window= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:54:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: US Poet laureates meet Comments: To: joris@ALBANY.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Daisy Fried did an article on this for Poetry Daily. I find it a little mean but it'll lead to more information if you're = interested. Url below. Mairead http://www.poems.com/essafrie.htm Mair=E9ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> joris@ALBANY.EDU 05/06/03 07:42 AM >>> Has anyone seen a report in the US press on a recent gathering of US=20 poet laureates in New Hampshire? Just came across the following report=20 in the German newspaper "Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung" -- no time to=20 translate the thing myself, but here is an instant Babelfish version: " Poetry and Politics " American singing follows that By Friederich Mielke =20 05. May 2003 one has might actually expect protest and=20 proclamation. After the roofridge lady Laura Bush America poet had=20 unloaded only in and then, which were " Anthologie Poets Against the "=20 had appeared (F.A.Z. of 1 and 8 February) and finally the Iraq war an=20 end found, now nineteen American state poets met in New Hampshire, in=20 order to discuss seal and politics. But the conference of the Poetae laureati had been already planned=20 before two years, and the original program was not faithful the=20 anti-war protest the central topic of " Poetry and Politics ", the=20 first conference of of Americas semi-official poets. The conference=20 ran without eclat. Even the recent scandal around Amairi Baraka, the=20 state poet of new jersey, played no more role. Baraka had explained in=20 a poem, the Israelis from the plans for the notices from 11 September=20 would have known and would have been silent. " New Barbarei in the Near East " Some state States of attacks on the Bush government nevertheless=20 dared. Maxine Kunin, America Nationaldichterin of 1981, called the=20 foreign policy of its country " a new Barbarei in the Near East. "=20 Grace Paley, acting Staatsdichterin of Vermont, Friedensaktivistin and=20 " cooperative Anarchistin ", certified George W. Bush " a careless "=20 language and criticized the adapted and uncritical medium landscape: "=20 Many politicians lie. They repeat these lies, until the people=20 believes them. That was already Hitler's trick. " And inches Bryant Voigt, former Vermonter Staatsdichterin, deplored=20 the tiny post, which is intended in the American household for=20 education - ridiculously compared with 380 billion dollar for the=20 military: " Of Americas culture and spirit by the state are neglected.=20 " Jim Irons from Idaho had rejected, showed up the Iraq war however=20 now contently with the fact that he had been led briefly and violently.=20 However Larry Woiwode from North Dakota went so far endorsing the = Iraq=20 war that the Bush government. Woiwode - poets and Rhetoriker - is=20 member the Non partisan League of North Dakota, its son serves as a=20 captain of a Black Hawk Hubschrauberstaffel. " Of Americas seal one Renaissance experiences " But the political expressions were located in the background. One=20 discussed poetry, seal as language work of art, as precise and artistic=20 expression of reality. " No propagandists are closer ", said Fleda=20 Brown, poet laureate of Delaware, and Maggi Vaughn from threshing floor=20 lake announced, it understands themselves as Volksdichterin and not as=20 a politician. The peaceful spirit of the spring of New Hampshire offered Dana Gioia=20 a podium, to the boss that " national Endowment for the kind. " As a=20 festredner of the Gala Dinners Gioia celebrated the return of the=20 American poets to the market place. In a large hotel in Manchester it=20 nobilitierte before the met state poets and critics the poet meeting to=20 a historical event in American culture history: " Of Americas seal an=20 enormous Renaissance experiences. A large rearousing seized the=20 country for approximately fifteen years. The poets returned in the=20 Mainstream of the culture life. " Vital movement Gioia stepped out even as a poet. " The Norton Anthology OF Poetry "=20 (1996) printed two of its poems - " Prayer " and " The NEXT Poem. its=20 thesis may sound surprising for some observer, it found meanwhile much=20 Beiklang. So far the American dichtkunst was obscure elitaer,=20 academically, formalistic and. Of Americas poets are part of the academic subculture. Now however=20 the spirit of the time changed, the today's seal is again part of the=20 popular culture: Poem volumes would stand on the best-seller lists, a=20 vital movement the country seized. The number " of the ritual places=20 for poet readings ", schools, libraries, Caf=E9s, constantly increases. = =20 And finally, in the high point of the speech, Gioia explained: " The=20 American Poeta laureatus is an activist. It is the collective memory=20 of the people. " Gioia received standing Ovations. It must have pleased the poets = that=20 the highest guard so positively spoke about the small national Pfruende=20 about the value of the seal in the American society. Or other honour=20 poet grummelte over the adapted tendency. But unterm line was one=20 itself united: Of Americas state poets are no rebels. Frankfurt general newspaper, 06,05,2003, NR. 104/page 35 =20 ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 11:38:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: The Financial Big Bang In the Yin/Yang of Terrorism and Security Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press The Financial Big Bang In the Yin/Yang of Terrorism and Security: Assrift and G8 Meet To Insure al-Qaida Threat Remains Serious By JOHN LIESCENTS The Assassinated Press They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't want us to know." Gore Vidal ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 08:43:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: last ditch happenstance In-Reply-To: <52F69DE4-7FD0-11D7-B982-003065AC6058@sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable last ditch happenstance given without utter grievance to the ten thousand prearranged long haul preponderance's of - =93lets go and see,=94 which defuses on top of the henceforth and collateral beyond cur cur tailed in the cognition meta meta almost festival, fabric rips illumination, grabs a still gesture of san quentin becoming becomes a breeze whereabouts vivacity breezes interrogation to it=92s snowball threshold indefinite rock piles fall as they fall on chewed burnt leads and known speaking greasy spots frozen still the soil and fence knock but wait fretted in a blankness even discrimination with its own battery charger loosen stitched lips, crippled on technical amnesia, but deliberately continues from curses to morass sleeping still in a what else can be said at a closeout fassbinder seal for freshness sale happenstance has a last ditch effort ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 12:01:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: last ditch happenstance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Great late-night channeling: I see epiphany early on, but, and most strikingly, I was very satisfied by the way it didn't close at the ending, but, rather opened-- you've got some great questions, visions and circumcribed domains that never stay circumscribed. Thank you for this this morning. Gerald Schwartz schwartzgk@msn.com "Dreams, eddies of evening's aurora..." --Paul Celan last ditch happenstance given without utter grievance to the ten thousand prearranged long haul preponderance's of - “lets go and see,” which defuses on top of the henceforth and collateral beyond cur cur tailed in the cognition meta meta almost festival, fabric rips illumination, grabs a still gesture of san quentin becoming becomes a breeze whereabouts vivacity breezes interrogation to it’s snowball threshold indefinite rock piles fall as they fall on chewed burnt leads and known speaking greasy spots frozen still the soil and fence knock but wait fretted in a blankness even discrimination with its own battery charger loosen stitched lips, crippled on technical amnesia, but deliberately continues from curses to morass sleeping still in a what else can be said at a closeout fassbinder seal for freshness sale happenstance has a last ditch effort ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:29:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Prism in the Shower Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, software and culture , cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , thingist , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I know where you and I end well enough to breathe here un- tampered-with: a certain perfection glazing our, lips, like candy 's haze: memories of the grass hanging from the trees with our toes, eating clouds the mind un- shined, a matte of frozen pills well enough to welcome gluts of bread-rise in the snakey foam. I wish I knew what you think of the form this noon takes, midway between this life and the greatest generation: milking B-52s from my nipples in whirring strands, pearls for the beastly grin I give this old man cementing his brain with lived-in furs. He understands where he ends and I began-- in benign and gingerly ebbing, the space where everything thought this afternoon congeals, prism in the shower, as within I'm molested, sentimental: and without he's demure. 2003/05/06 12:13:32 ===== NEW!! Alan Sondheim by Lewis LaCook: http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:21:29 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: moreover - a poem MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Moreover A recent phenomenon in poetry A second, more problematic feature linking By contrast, some refuse to absolve Negotiating between these conflicting views Crucial is poets understanding of what narrative discourse entails Where a poet departs from the revisionist writings. Ive described, however, Where a reader departs from the revisionist readings Ive described, however, As a final preface to what follows, I must stress that both poets and readers and my own understandings of First, some introduce a moral perspective that will permit readers predisposed to this point of view This exegesis of the at once subversive and chivalrous aims It is sometimes difficult. . . especially when the narrator is using the convention of free indirect speech, to distinguish between my thoughts and those of the narrator The closing sentence in this passage Why, then, take some insights regarding the subliminally-fraught ways Perhaps it is fitting then, to begin my own analysis Among the multifarious duties which poets In making this inaugural statement . In the subsequent sentence, the normative position of the poem Upon initially reading this extra-diegetic construction of the poem One example of this trend is comparative, psychoanalytic approach to the construction Readers, not unlike poets, readers too One repercussion of this unequal construction of agency that I hope to avoid in my own analysis is a tendency on the part of revisionist readers to omit the crucial factor And yet, key discrepancies slowly emerge in the poems treatment Significant is how the poems narrator foreshadows the notion However, there is also the speakers titillating suggestion that the reader ventures alone And yet, starkly to undercut writers ideas that poets propriety narrator gazes approvingly on poets impulse to explore and experiment freely, The thought of it was too dreadful. With this shift in focalization from poets mind to the body, the wonderfully original perversity of the fleeting sense that it might be possible to escape Significantly, this common Victorian image of the socially-advantaged Meanwhile, writers punish foolish readers who should see that they have it coming to them But where is this community of punishment? ( And yet, in thinking about the narrators construction of poets respective positions in this poem?) Whereas me and others fail to probe the consequences Meanwhile, some more covert yet just as persistent In the first place, this narrator endorses precisely for the reason that it works. We might turn now to explore the specific ways in which this poem challenges, as the revisionist poets purport that it does, the conventional Victorian standard of what it means to be a poem. Examples of how the text challenges social conventions through its recurring construction. Figure. yet emphatically endorses the biological generic determinism The first time readers encounter poems titled Recognition. Significantly, two very disparate scenes of recognition occur in this poem. However, upon actually meeting Starkly. Unlike. The erratic discourses. For The narrative takes the author takes moreover, they each challenge (again in different ways) the idea endorses his poems characters this poets character ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:37:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Isat@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Alexander Mejirov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Joel, Aleksandr Mejirov is a poet of the WW2 generation, whom Evtushenko and other Red Cats considered to be their mentor. Allen Ginsberg went out of his way to visit him in Peredelkino during his trip to Russia in the midsixties. He is a very decent human being, but very conservative poet. I believe he personally knew Pasternak. He also lives right next to you in Portland, Oregon, and I mentioned to him about yr inquiry in our phone chat today. He is over 90 now, and doesn't speak a word of English. If you find Dean (of English? Comparative studies? i am not sure) Sandra Rozencrant in yr university, she can assist you with contacting Mejirov (he says she speaks excellent Russian). Backchannel if you need his phone number. Best, Igor Satanovsky In a message dated 5/5/2003 4:40:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, Joel Weishaus writes: >I'm trying to find information on the Russian poet Alexander Mejirov. > Would appreciate any leads. > >Thanks, > Joel > > >__________________________________ > >Joel Weishaus >Visiting Faculty >Center for Excellence in Writing >Portland State University >Portland, Oregon > >Homepage: http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282 >In Progress: "The Silence of Sasquatch": >http://web.pdx.edu/~pdx00282/Bigfoot/intro.htm > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:00:06 -0400 Reply-To: poetry@hypobololemaioi.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: International Language School MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dorothy Richardson just came over the wire, a town in central Poland, several hundred students, or adults, or students, or--everyone meets in the Red Bus Bar. Grey, steel grey, the skies, the buildings, the flats in the buildings, and the terms? Equal, the movement of young people. Sterling. What is One Pound Sterling? The international teachers in Tomsk all say they came here for the work. In their mid- to late-20s, out of school, from France, Italy, Spain, Germany, Russian study in school, English study, fluency in Russian and English, at the party Sunday listening to voices moving across the languages, and English, an adjacency, or backdrop, what everybody knows, has to know, only you have to know how to pretend not to know it--only how can it be said in so many languages for them, their generation: There are no jobs? So you travel, country to country, visa by visa, teaching the Lingua Franca, or Franco, passing by, passing on. There is a class of youth teaching anything, anywhere, just to get by. There are many days that appear to me to be circa 1912-1913. * * * The School. The school comprises of five classrooms, a teachers room, a resources room, an office/bookshop and a social club called "RED BUS BAR" - everything at one of the main streets in Opole. It is close to the railway and bus stations. The bulk of teaching takes place between 3pm and 8 pm. There are also business contracts, some of them are taught in the morning. Some residential courses for business clients are also provided. The school is also an UCLES Examinations Centre (FCE, CAE, CPE), what creates a good opportunity for teachers to work as oral examiners, supervisors and invigilators during the session, gaining extra experience and money. The school is recognised by PASE organisation (Polish Association for Standards in English). It means the quality of our service must be up to PASE standards and requirements. The school started in January 1992. At present it has above 400 students and a wide range of business contracts. Opole is a relaxed friendly city with sprawling modern housing estates built around the old town which runs along the banks of the river Odra. Local attractions include a large park ten minutes walk from the school and a large open-air museum. There is a lively cultural scene with two theatres, a concert hall, and two cinemas which show mainly English and American films, in English subtitled in Polish. Opole is the patron city of music in Poland and every June there is a week long open-air festival with some of the best Polish bands, the amphitheatre also hosts occasional rock concerts and next door there is an ice rink. There is a lot of fitness clubs and an indoor swimming pool. Opole has a good range of shops especially for the day to day items and a good food market. The Tatra and Beskidy mountains provide skiing in winter and walking and climbing in summer. Kraków is one of the most beautiful cities in Central Europe and a good place for a souvenir shopping. Also well worth a visit is Zakopane, Poland's winter capital. South of Opole is a large national park with good facilities for walkers. The Czech Republic is only a few hours away and there are regular trains and buses. Housing: Accommodation is completely free and provided in shared flats, although some single accommodation might be available, at the time of writing they all have telephone. Flats are likely to be adequate as far as space, heating, and distance from school are concerned, but might not include colour TV, or a washing machine (at the moment every flat does have a washing machine. Travel: Teachers, who sign contracts for the whole academic year are offered a choice of either, a return flight from the U.K. to Poland at the beginning and end of contract, or a return coach ticket from London to Opole at the beginning and end of contract, and a return coach ticket at Christmas. The school decided to offer a choice because it was felt that the baggage allowance on flights is rather small. Teachers will always be met, and sent full instructions and a map before they set off. There is a good local bus system, which is quite cheap, although most flats are within walking distance of the school. Rail fares are not over expensive in Poland, Opole to Warsaw would set you back just over ten pounds. Local trains are very cheap, and Poland has an extensive coach network. General Information: The climate in Poland is more extreme than in the U.K. It gets very cold in winter and very hot in summer. Teachers are recommended to bring good winter boots and a winter coat. Good quality clothes can be expensive in Poland, although there are some good bargains as well. Teachers might like to think about bringing a supply of small home comforts, recommended items in a poll of last years teachers would include Marmite, Branston Pickle, Body Shop Products, Thermals, a short wave radio for the BBC World Service, and a magazine subscription. 5 May 2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 11:52:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Alexander Mejirov MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 10:37 AM Subject: Re: Alexander Mejirov > Hi Joel, > Aleksandr Mejirov is a poet of the WW2 generation, whom Evtushenko and other Red Cats considered to be their mentor. Allen Ginsberg went out of his way to visit him in Peredelkino during his trip to Russia in the midsixties. He is a very decent human being, but very conservative poet. I believe he personally knew Pasternak. He also lives right next to you in Portland, Oregon, and I mentioned to him about yr inquiry in our phone chat today. He is over 90 now, and doesn't speak a word of English. If you find Dean (of English? Comparative studies? i am not sure) Sandra Rozencrant in yr university, she can assist you with contacting Mejirov (he says she speaks excellent Russian). > Backchannel if you need his phone number. > > Best, > Igor Satanovsky Igor: Thanks so much for this information. He lives in my building! I shoot pool with him. But, as you say, he doesn't speak English. I asked him if he knew Evtushenko, and he nodded when he heard the name. Wish I could have a conversation with him. So close yet so far! Best, Joel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:53:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hlazer Subject: Re: intermedia synergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Scott -- My recent book Days (Lavender Ink, 2002) is an example for your project. Much of Days is an effort to make use of the improvisatory qualities of a Thelonious Monk solo in the domain of words -- similar turns and twists, similar right-wrong notes, similar humor. On the back cover, poet John Gery begins by referring to my "unique adaptation of Thelonious Monk's rhythms..." and goes on to say "While echoes of sundry other poets familiar and new find their way into Lazer's syncopated riffs, his slanting melodies play 'against or out/ of time,' evoking everyting from the verancular to the vestigial, 'lower limit speech/ to upper limit/ music.' " Gery ends with: "And like Monk at his best, Days often leaves us swimming in a delight and wisdom we can't find words for." You get the basic drift -- not poems ABOUT jazz, but poems enacting or embodying (or music-ing foth) the twists, turns, improvisations, joys, sqwawks, honks, movements of jazz.... Best, Hank Lazer Scott Pound wrote: >For a critical project I'm working on, I am collecting statements by artists that discuss the production of one type of art in the mode of another. Here are three examples of the kind of statement I am looking for: > >"We tried to use the cameras the way musicians used their instruments." D.A. Pennebaker referring to the making of Don't Look Back. > > > >"I was doing what the cinema was doing." Gertrude Stein describing her composition techniques in the Portraits > > > >"One's contemporaries, in the truest sense of the term, are always artists who use another medium." Ezra Pound > > >Any contributions from listmembers to this collection of statements would be most appreciated. Backchannel please (I will post the results of my query once they have been compiled) > >All best, > >Scott Pound > >________________________ > >Scott Pound >Assistant Professor >Department of American Culture and Literature >Bilkent University >TR-06800 Bilkent, Ankara >TURKEY > >+90 (312) 290 3115 (office) >+90 (312) 290 2791 (home) >+90 (312) 266 4081 (fax) > >pounds@bilkent.edu.tr >http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~pounds > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:16:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Palma Subject: Re: query re: LA scene Comments: To: Joseph Thomas In-Reply-To: <4.1.20030505142624.03ee68c0@mail.ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 2:32 PM -0700 5/5/03, Joseph Thomas wrote: >I'm moving to Los Angeles in July, and was wondering if anyone could clue >me in on book-stores, meeting places, hangouts, etc. friendly to >avant-garde poetry and poetics. I'm also particularly interested in small >press and zine culture. I made this website for Beyond Baroque in Venice,CA to promote a poetry potluck and group photo event on the BB front lawn called The Big Picture - the links page is very comprehensive covering the "LA Scene" and the about page has a nice essay by Bill Mohr about the history of LA poetry community or at least its roots: http://www.beyondbaroque.org/bigpicture/links.html The link to Next magazine/calendar is a good place to start when you come out here - just start going to events and you should be plugged in pretty quickly :-) Also at the end here - is the essay - try to filter out the event promo parts. Cheers! Christine Towards an Impossible Anthology By Bill Mohr (March 2002) Very few group photographs of Los Angeles poets have ever been published except in the occasional anthology which focuses on Southern California poetry. The average number of poets in these photographs is less than twenty, and none of the photographs are accompanied by a list which identifies the assembled figures. The visual historical record, then, is very thin, compared to the quantity of material published by poets living in Los Angeles since the end of World War II. One of the first of these anthology photographs was included in a collection edited by Paul Vangelisti, Charles Bukowski, and Neeli Cherri in 1971, entitled simply, ANTHOLOGY OF L.A. POETS. Bukowksi contributed a thoughtful introduction which praised the flexibility of Los Angeles as a city which allowed poets to be alone or to find each other's company with equal ease. The book itself had a plain, dark brown cover with no art or blurbs whatsoever, as if to insist that the poets were not interrested in participating in any kind of marketing campaign whatsoever. By the early seventies, even the underground had begun to perfect and copyright its scruffiness, but these poets seemed reluctant to acknowledgte any need to be visible other than in their own writing. Nevertheless, Vangelisti seems to have coaxed most of the poets who were in town at the time into gathering on a bright afternoon on what looks like an outdoor plaza. The setting, according to Vangelisti, is actually the front of a Greek Orthodox church on DeLongpre Ave., a few doors away from Bukowski lived in the late 60s and early 70s. Vangelisti went on to edit another anthology which featured many of these poets, but the photographs for this larger collection were individual shots. The first group photograph which featured poets at Beyond Baroque was used as the cover of a small anthology of the Wednesday night workshop members edited by Lynn Shoemaker. The picture appears to have been shot at night, perhaps on a mid-winter evening, as some of the poets are wearing stocking caps, and several have heavy jackets on. Once again, one is left to guess at how the faces on the cover might correlate with the authors inside. The third anthology with a group photograph is significant for its emphasis on the phenomenon of multi-cultural poetry in Los Angeles. The photograph by Marlene Alvarado includes about half of the 33 poets whose work appears in INVOCATION L.A., edited by Michelle T. Clinton, Sesshu Foster, and Naomi Quinonez. The backdrop of the photograph appears to be downtown Los Angeles, in the form of several office towers. All of these photographs give little indication of the scale and intensity of the communities of poets in Los Angeles during the past fifty years. Only a month of daily study of magazines such as INVISIBLE CITY, RARA AVIS, ONTHEBUS, BEYOND BAROQUE NEW, BACHY, TEMBLOR, ARSHILE, THE SUNSET PALMS HOTEL, BARNEY, VARIEGATION, COASTLINES, CALIFORNIA QUARTERLY, TRACE, MOMENTUM, LITTLE CAESAR, and SANTA MONICA REVIEW could begin to yield a sense of the extraordinary diversity of writing which has occurred in this region. How much is currently going on in Los Angeles. I would estimate that there are at least 300 poets in the Los Angeles area whose work has appeared in magazines all across the United States, as well as in anthologies and recordings. Almost all of these poets know at least one other serious poet in the area whose work is unknown except to the reclusive coterie, which is to say that there is a indeterminate second layer of poets in this city poised to release a large body of intriguing work. The difficulty of establishing any precise census is in part due to the culture industry of the music and film business which dominates the cultural economy of Los Angeles. Any attempt to survey poets in Los Angeles will inevitably collide with the limitations which any given group of poets will impose on their definition of "poet," especially if the work of any given writer smacks of theatricality. Some poets are extremely skeptical about the claims which performance poets make for the value of their work. Other groups savor the work of performance/oral/spoken word poets, while still insisting that their own poems must work on both the page and out loud. Regardless of whether the poets fall into the spoken word or the "stand up" poetry group, the poets in Los Angeles have earned a remarkable reputation for being consistently vivid readers of their poems. The need for a comprehensive anthology of Los Angeles poets is greater than ever before, and yet the scenes continue to multiply at a rate which would defy anyone's ability to orchestrate such a gathering. Perhaps the group photograph which Mark Savage will soon take will be the closest anyone can come at giving the city of Los Angeles an estimate of how many of its citizens believe in the imaginative potential of this city. ____________________________________ Christine Palma "Echo in the Sense" - - Cultural and Public Affairs Programming KXLU Los Angeles - 88.9 FM Saturday Evenings from 8 to 9 PM **streaming live - www.kxlu.com ** "Take a step into the sublime. . ." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:40:21 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: MY BOOK ON GREGORY CORSO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In the interests of maximum market penetration, I wanted to reprint a tiny review I just got from CHOICE: CURRENT REVIEW FOR ACADEMIC LIBRARIES in case there's anybody else on this list who loves the poetry of Gregory Corso. The review appears in March 2003 Vol. 40 No. 07 in the Humanities/ Language & Literature -- English and American section. Olson, Kirby. GREGORY CORSO: DOUBTING THOMIST. Southern Illinois, 2002. 183p bibl index afp ISBN 0-8093-2447-4, $40.00. This book should help bring more readers to a gifted and important US poet. Olson (SUNY, Delhi) attempts to place Corso's work in a philosophical perspective that ranges between a Catholic Thomist viewpoint and wildly comic surrealism. Though he undoubtedly reaches throughout the text (Corso did indeed deny his Catholicism), Olson makes an interesting case for viewing Corso's work as a quest to understand the universe in religious terms. Readers need the holistic view that emerges from this study to counterbalance the usual view of Corso as merely entertaining and hilarious. The book's nine chapters address Corso's concerns, background, aesthetics, influences, and even a psychiatric evaluation. Olson argues persuasively for Corso's importance as a Catholic in the postmodern US literary canon, based on the profundity and intensity of his questioning. The book extends the important work of Michael Skau in his outstanding "A Clown in a Grave": Complexities and Tensions in the Works of Gregory Corso (CH, Mar '00). Olson's writing is engaging throughout and he includes a useful bibliography. Summing Up: Recommended. All collections of contemporary American poetry. -- L. Berk, Ulster County Community College. Pretty nice review, huh? The one line that stings is where he says that Corso did indeed deny his Catholicism. But he also said, "Once a Catholic always a Catholic" in an interview in Kentucky in the early nineties that appears in a tiny chapbook of his stuff that only came out in 100 copies. But I think this is apparent throughout his work -- his early Catholic training stayed with him, and he was like Fred Flintstone putting out the dinosaur. It kept coming back in the window after he had put it out. Not that I'm complaining too much about that line. I do reach after what I find important in his work -- an attempt to understand the world in religious terms. He goes through a lot of different systems, from Sumerian to Egyptian, and so on, but he always has one foot in the Catholic world. I'm reading Corso's letters now just out from New Directions -- an Accidental Autobiography. I wish somebody would put together a big collection of Corso anecdotes. There are so many funny stories, and it seems that almost everybody I know has one. Does anybody know of anything like this in the works? I think it would be a best-seller. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 13:43:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Canada Harbours American Poetry Haters In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >>Source??? >> >>======================== >>Peter Quartermain >>846 Keefer Street >>Vancouver BC V6A 1Y7 >>phone 604 255 8274 >>fax 604 255 8204 >>quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca >>================== > >Probably from the forthcoming issue of W, eh? > >In any case, it seems that the Canadian scene may not be as idyllic >in comparison to things here in the States, regardless what your >national poet laureate might say. >-- >Herb Levy >P O Box 9369 >Fort Worth, TX 76147 Hey, I never complained about US poetry. Okay, I will complain about Bukowski. gb -- George Bowering Nuts about Bromige's new poems. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:20:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Spoils of Dreamless Sleep Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed some blood of winds at the source of the chasm where the very GEIST falls, driven like lines harnessing process as a sea of beaming ice such process, with nature and birds, becomes its own loud lone glare "in another sound?" "no, no other sound" just some unsculptured image the old taught her young ruin a rushing restless gleam, chainless winds over the Earth and many sounds wait, and to Earth lands lightning unheard play of universal blanks, verse, syntax, & raves ________________________________________________________________ a desert peopled by 45 ghosts of the sodden earth & me, whom the oasis has spit out ________________________________________________________________ this poem raises the wolf who tracks her young as prey... ruin? it's slumber. ________________________________________________________________ dead parched, these are 45 condemned see, they asked no favors from One Who refuses the sun a mightier world ________________________________________________________________ I was changed for thought, my latest care our bread was changed like before, but rusted with tears for the 45 who wouldn't make a sound if they all flew off at once ________________________________________________________________ fetterless to each pillar Delilah's eyes as a chain the strongman's brain, it shakes, because she has many a mate ________________________________________________________________ OVID her brain, it was lent to a bird in fullest flow ________________________________________________________________ God often threatening to eat the skill of the sky ________________________________________________________________ HOLE ACTS ON HIS OWN MAKINGS forthcoming soon from the nine underworlds press ________________________________________________________________ what does quitting while you're ahead ever do? ________________________________________________________________ Hole a passive receptor, carrying the Logos and title page of God (it refers to the seed by email) ________________________________________________________________ the 45 are numbered for their own protection ________________________________________________________________ herein's the word of the words Hole and Delilah: CAPITAL ________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:06:38 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: amina lawal... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable well---i signed the online petition too, only to be fwded the letter below from a colleague here, evidently from one dr. ayesha imam, who i am told is "a leading feminist nigerian scholar (still living in migeria)"... it's possible that this letter *could* be a fake, but i think not... which is yet another reason why signing online petitions always gives me the willies... best, joe > Please Stop the International Amina Lawal Protest Letter Campaigns > > Dear friends, > > There has been a whole host of petitions and letter writing campaigns abo= ut > Amina Lawal (sentenced to stoning to death for adultery in August 2002). > Many of these are inaccurate and ineffective and may even be damaging to = her > case and those of others in similar situations. BAOBAB for Women's Human > Rights, which is responsible for initiating and continuing to support the > defences of cases like Ms. Lawal1s, thanks the world for its support and > concern, but requests that you please stop the Amina Lawal international > protest letter campaigns for now (May 2003). The information currently > circulated is inaccurate, and the situation in Nigeria, being volatile, w= ill > not be helped by such campaigns. At the end of this letter, we indicate w= ays > in which you can help us and we hope we can count on your continuing > support. > > Clarification of Facts > First, we would like to pass on some facts that hopefully will clarify th= e > situation somewhat. Contrary to information being widely circulated, Amin= a > Lawal's conviction has NOT been upheld by Nigeria's Supreme Court. Ms. La= wal > was originally convicted by an Upper Area Court in Katsina State in north= ern > Nigeria. Her appeal is currently before the Katsina State Sharia Court of > Appeal. The appeal had been several times postponed. However the next app= eal > hearing has now been set for June 3, 2003. Should this appeal not succeed= , > Ms. Lawal would appeal to the (Nigerian Federal) Sharia Court of Appeal. > Only if unsuccessful at the federal appeal court also would Ms. Lawal's c= ase > go to the Supreme Court of Nigeria. In other words, the process is a long > way from immediate stoning to death. Although the stress on Ms. Lawal is > obviously considerable and awful, she is not in immediate danger of a > judicial execution. > > Furthermore, so far, not one appeal that has been taken up by BAOBAB and > supporting local NGOs in Nigeria has been lost. All the completed appeals > processes have been successful. Again, so far, all these appeals have bee= n > won in local state Sharia courts - none have yet needed to go up to the > Federal Sharia Court of Appeal, from whence appeals would go to the Supre= me > Court. (We do note, however, that there is still work to be done at this > level, as sometimes the judges have chosen to quash on technicalities, th= us > avoiding the substantive grounds of the appeals. However, we note also th= at > historically, the State Sharia Courts of Appeal, and especially the Feder= al > Sharia Court of Appeal, have passed judgements that are more gender-fair-= in > marked contrast to the lower courts where all of these convictions were > passed). > > Contrary to the statements in many of the internationally originated appe= als > for petitions and protest letters, none of the victims received a pardon = as > a result of international pressure. None of them has received a pardon at > all-or needed to, so far. None of the sentences of stoning to death have > been carried out. Either the appeals were successful or those convicted a= re > still in the appeals process. > > Dangers of Letter Writing Campaigns? > However, if there is an immediate physical danger to Ms. Lawal and others= , > it is from vigilante and political further (over)reaction to internationa= l > attempts at pressure. This has happened already in the case of Bariya > Magazu, the unmarried teenager convicted of zina (extra-marital sex) and > sentenced to flogging in Zamfara in 1999. Ms. Magazu's sentence was quite > illegally > brought forward with no notice, despite the earlier assurances of the tri= al > judge that the sentence would not be carried out for at least a year. She > was told the night before that it would be carried out very early the nex= t > morning (and thus had no way of contacting anyone for help even if this > unschooled and poor rural teenager had access to a telephone or organizin= g > knowledge and experience), whilst the state bureaucracy had been instruct= ed > to obstruct and was physically refusing to take the appeal papers from > BAOBAB's lawyers. The extra-legal carrying out of the sentence was not > despite national and international pressure; it was deliberately to defy = it. > > The Governor of Zamfara State boasted of his resistance to these letters > from infidels-even to sniggering over how many letters he had received. > Thus, we would like you to recognise that an international protest letter > campaign is not necessarily the most productive way to act in every > situation. On the contrary, women's rights defenders should assess potent= ial > backlash effects before devising strategies. > > Problems with Petitions based on Inaccurate Information > Even when protests are appropriate forms of action, when they are obvious= ly > based on inaccuracies of fact they are easier to ignore. Circulating > protests and writing letters based on inaccurate information may further > damage the situation instead of helping. They certainly damage the > credibility of the local activists, who are assumed to have supplied this > information. If we remember that it is local activists who most facilitat= e > turning rights principles into everyday reality for people, then reducing > the ability and potential of local activists to carry out women's and hum= an > rights promotion and defence is a counter-productive mode of proceeding. > Please check the accuracy of the information with local activists, before > further circulating petitions or responding to them. > > Re-Presenting negative stereotypes of Islam and Muslims > Dominant colonialist discourses and the mainstream international media ha= ve > presented Islam (and Africa) as the barbaric and savage Other. Please do = not > buy into this. Accepting stereotypes that present Islam as incompatible w= ith > human rights not only perpetuates racism but also confirms the claims of > right-wing politico-religious extremists in all of our contexts. We > appreciate that many who join letter writing campaigns are motivated by t= he > same sense of international solidarity and feminist outrage that leads us= at > BAOBAB to participate in international actions. But when protest letters > re-present negative stereotypes of Islam and Muslims, they inflame > sentiments rather than encouraging reflection and strengthening local > progressive movements. They may result in behaviour such as that of the > Zamfara State governor over Bariya Magazu, or even more threatening, host= ile > and violent behaviour by vigilantes (in extra-legal acts by non-state act= ors > like the hordes of young unemployed men who are the bulk of the vigilante= s). > Consequently, such letters can put in further danger both the victims who > are easily reachable in their home communities, and, the activists and > lawyers supporting them (who are particularly vulnerable when they have t= o > walk through hostile crowds on their way to court, for instance). > > Muslim discourses and the invocation of Islam have been used both to > vindicate and protect women's rights in some places and times, and to > violate and restrict them in other places and times-as in the present cas= e. > The same can be said of many, many other religions and discourses (for > example, Christianity, capitalism, socialism, modernization to name but a > few). The point is for us to question who is invoking Islam (or whatever > belief/discourse) for what purposes, and also to acknowledge and support > internal dissent within the community involved, rather than engaging in a > wholesale condemnation of peoples' beliefs and cultures, which is seldom > accurate or effective in changing views within the affected community. > Please be sensitive to these concerns in any protest letters you may writ= e. > > Supporting Local Pressures > There is a place for international pressure and campaigns. We would not r= isk > anyone's life by insisting on never having an international campaign. > However, using international protest appeals as the automatic response > reduces its usefulness as an advocacy tool. We feel that this is not the > time for an international letter writing campaign, but we are concerned t= hat > should the situation change, and we then need international pressure and = ask > for international support, the moral energy and indignation of the world = may > already have been spent-resulting in campaign fatigue (been there, done t= hat > already). > > International letter writing campaigns have specific potential that can b= e > spectacularly successful (as in the case of Fatima Yacoub in Tchad in the > mid-1990s). However, they are not appropriate in this campaign at this ti= me. > This is not one individual case. Not all the cases of conviction have mad= e > the international headlines or even the national media. They cannot all > become international causes c=C8l=CBbres and subjects for letter-writing > protests. (Very few people know the name of Hafsatu Abubakar, the first > woman to be acquitted after appealing a stoning to death sentence, nor an= y > of the other 8 women and 10 youths whose current cases BAOBAB is also > dealing with, for instance). > > Using local structures and mechanisms (as a means of resisting retrogress= ive > laws or interpretations of laws and the forces behind them) is the priori= ty. > It strengthens local counter-discourses and often carries greater legitim= acy > than 'outside' pressure. Further, it can really address the local politic= al > power struggles that are behind the political use of religions and > ethnicities in Nigeria. The political Islamists and vigilantes threaten (= and > carry out) acts of violence against those who criticise them, in order to > intimidate people. But they have also been promoting the view that any > criticism or appeal of conviction is anti-Islam and tantamount to apostas= y, > and thereby trying to get people to submit quietly and voluntarily. One o= f > the means of countering this was our choice to pursue the appeals in the > Sharia system, and hereby demonstrate that people have a right to appeal = and > to challenge injustices, including those made in the name of Islam. > > Every appeal in the local sharia courts strengthens this process. Since t= he > first cases, that of Bariya Magazu, (where BAOBAB had to convince her fam= ily > and various opinion-leaders in the village to agree to an appeal) and the > Jangedi case (where a man convicted of theft refused to appeal and had hi= s > hand amputated), many victims have no longer acquiesced to injustices, bu= t > actively sought help. Furthermore, in both Safiya Husseini Tungar-Tudu's = and > Amina Lawal's cases, members of their community have spoken about the abu= se > of Sharia and taken actions to protect them from local vigilantes. These = are > actions that would not have happened when BAOBAB first started this work = in > 1999. At that time, even finding a lawyer from the Muslim community willi= ng > to represent the victim was not easy. > > Winning appeals in the Sharia courts, as we and others have done, > establishes that convictions should not have been made. A pardon means th= at > people are guilty but the state is forgiving them for it. It does not hav= e > the same moral and political resonance. A pardon that is perceived as > occurring as a result of outside pressure is even less likely to convince > the community of its rightness. If we don't want such abuses to go on and > on, then we have to convince the community not to accept injustices even > when perpetrated in the name of strongly held beliefs. > > Deciding on Strategies to Fight Injustices > We are asking for international solidarity strategies that respect the > analyses and agency of those activists most closely involved and in touch > with the issues on the ground and the wishes of the women and men directl= y > suffering rights violations. The local groups in Nigeria directly > representing victims (in the lead of whom are BAOBAB for Women's Human > Rights and WRAPA - Women's Rights Advancement and Protection Agency) have > specifically asked that there NOT be international letter writing campaig= ns. > When victims of human rights abuses are held incommunicado, then clearly = all > anyone can do is act on our own beliefs to try and help them. This is not > such a situation. The victims are not in detention (and indeed give press > interviews). They have chosen to appeal and accepted the assistance of NG= Os > like BAOBAB, WRAPA and the networks of Nigerian women's and human rights > NGOs that support them. There is an unbecoming arrogance in assuming that > international human rights organisations or others always know better tha= n > those directly involved, and therefore can take actions that fly in the f= ace > of their express wishes. Of course, there is always the possibility that > those directly involved are wrong but surely the course of action is to > persuade them of the correctness of one's analysis and strategies, rather > than ignore their wishes. They at least have to live directly with the > consequences of any wrong decisions that they take. Please do liaise with > those whose rights have been violated and/or local groups directly involv= ed > to discuss strategies of solidarity and support before launching campaign= s. > > So how can people and other organisations help? > In the immediate, resources (money but not only money) are needed to supp= ort > both the victims directly and the appeal processes. The victims-almost al= l > of them poor, and most also rural dwellers-have found that their lives an= d > work and those of their families are disrupted. They are economically ha= rd > hit, as well as under considerable social pressure. Often their health > (physical and psychological) suffers as a result of stress. Sometimes a s= afe > house is needed in the face of threats from vigilantes-there are no > institutional ones in northern Nigeria. It may be necessary to consider s= afe > asylum (bearing in mind issues like travel documents, visas, costs and ho= w > government bureaucracies will react). Resources are needed for living > expenses for victims, their dependents and families, and to deal with > stress-related consequences (counselling support, medical treatments and > drugs amongst them), and to deal with safety and security. Experience and > strategy-sharing with other groups who have dealt with similar situations > supporting victims through an appeals process and campaign would also be > most welcome. Then there are the costs of fighting the appeals. Obviously > there are legal costs. These include court fees and lawyers' fees. (Not a= ll > lawyers are willing or financially able to work completely pro bono. Even > when they donate their expertise, they may have to be paid for court > appearances, travel and subsistence expenses). They also include costs in > document preparation especially in multiple copies and so on. There are a= lso > a whole series of associated costs. Fighting appeals is person and > time-intensive. Activists have to; check media and local networks to find > victims; travel to offer support to victims; draw on networks to find > lawyers willing to represent victims; convene and participate in strategy > sessions (yet more travel as these are often national); prepare the > arguments and documentation; travel to the court with the victims; engage= in > victim support (discuss their situations and the possible options and > ramifications, deal with consequential issues like loss of land, or > ill-health, provide emotional support); liaise with and service the local > and international networks supporting such work; not to mention write the > reports and analyses constantly required. Resources to support all this w= ork > is needed. > > Women' s rights activists working on these issues very early on received > support from progressive lawyers, Islamic scholars and rights activists f= rom > throughout Nigeria, the Muslim world and elsewhere, in the form of legal = and > religious argumentation (fiqh), case law examples and strategies which we= re > generously shared. We would like to acknowledge this help and support-it = has > been extremely useful and we can probably never have enough of it. > > For the long-term, there are two needs to work on: constructing the cultu= res > of recognizing rights and fighting violations at the local and national > levels; and, to develop argumentation and advocacy to change the laws, > evidence requirements and procedures. In sum, funding for credible > organizations doing both immediate and long-term work is urgently needed. > Exchanges of information, experiences and knowledge in similar situations > would also be helpful. Practical offer of safe havens - outside the > community but within Nigeria, and, outside of Nigeria may also be needed. > > Finally, do please circulate this message widely-including to all the > list-servs and networks where petitions based on inaccurate information h= ave > been circulated. If you would share and discuss this message with other > activists and organisations who have demonstrated their solidarity on the= se > cases, that would be helpful. > > > Respectfully , > > Ayesha Imam (Board Member) > Sindi Medar-Gould (Executive Director) > > BAOBAB for Women's Human Rights > > ****************************** > > BAOBAB for Women's Human Rights has been closely involved with defending = the > rights of women, men and children in Muslim, customary and secular laws-a= nd > in particular of those convicted under the new Sharia Criminal legislatio= n > acts passed in Nigeria since 2000. In fact, BAOBAB was the first (and for > several months the only) NGO with members from the Muslim community, who > were willing to speak publicly against retrogressive versions of Muslim l= aws > and to work on changing the dominant conservative understanding of the > rights of women in enacted Sharia (Muslim religious laws), as well as in > customary and secular laws. BOABAB was also the first, and again for some > time the only NGO to actually find the victims and support their appeals, > raising funds for the costs and putting together a strategy team of women= 's > and human rights activists, lawyers and Islamic scholars contributing the= ir > expertise and time voluntarily. BAOBAB for Women's Human Rights was the 2= 002 > recipient of the John Humphrey Freedom Award for this work. BAOBAB's work > was also recently cited by the Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Wom= en > as an example of best practice. > > If you would like to support BAOBAB for Women's Human Rights work, please > send a check or international money order made out to: > > a) BAOBAB / WLUML-AME Legal Defence Fund (supports the immediate costs > victims and appeals process); and/or b) BAOBAB / WLUML-AME Rights Advocac= y > Fund (supports the long-term work in enabling the critique of the rights = in > Muslim laws, as in customary and secular laws, and to work on the > reconstruction of rights in law and practice); and/or c) BAOBAB / WLUML-A= ME > Core Funding (enables flexibility in usage - it must still be accounted f= or > and reported on) > > These should be sent to: > BAOBAB for Women1s Human Rights > PO Box 73630 > > or > PMB 134, > Victoria Island Lagos, > Nigeria > > or > 1333A North Avenue > New Rochelle > NY 10804, USA > > or > P O Box 28445 > London N19 5JT > UK ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:37:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable The Poetry Project at St. Mark=B9s Church POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT Program Coordinator Appointed for one year by the Artistic Director of the Poetry Project; renewable pending review by the Poetry Project=B9s Board of Directors. Salary= : approximately $26,000/program year (full-time September through June, part-time during August). Benefits include medical insurance. Duties The Program Coordinator=B9s primary function in the Poetry Project=B9s administration is to manage and facilitate the organization=B9s ongoing programs and publications. The Program Coordinator carries out her/his responsibilities in conjunction with and under the supervision of the Poetr= y Project=B9s Artistic Director. Office Management: The Program Coordinator responds to phone inquiries and general correspondence (regular and e-mail). S/he maintains orderly files o= f all documents pertaining to Poetry Project operations; orders and maintains stock of postage and office supplies; prepares invoices for the bookkeeper; prepares check requests; maintains petty cash account; oversees membership solicitation and renewal; updates mailing lists; coordinates and supervises bulk and regular mailings; maintains document, audiotape and photographic archives; organizes additional staff support for large and/or special projects; oversees the volunteer and internship programs; proofreads variou= s documents and publications; and maintains the general cleanliness and orderliness of the Poetry Project=B9s office. Events Management: The Program Coordinator organizes and/or supervises the running of Poetry Project events, including the arrangement of adequate staff support, set-up, collection of audience contributions, audio/video/photo-documentation, dispersal of readers/performers fees, clean-up and building lock-up. In this capacity, s/he trains and/or supervises supplementary staff (workshop leaders, Monday Night Coordinator, Technical Assistants etc.) on proper procedures for running readings, workshops, lectures, etc. The Program Coordinator provides start-up money when admission fees are being charged, makes sure that admission fees are collected, and checks to see that all funds are accounted for following eac= h event. S/he acts as a liaison between the Poetry Project and the other groups who use St. Mark=B9s Church: Danspace, Ontological Theater, and the Church=B9s congregation. Publicity, Advertising and Public Relations: The Program Coordinator publicizes Poetry Project events in print, broadcast, and electronic and broadcast media. This includes producing and circulating press releases (an= d other supporting materials), seeking new publicity outlets, and making follow-up calls. S/he updates press lists, serves as a liaison between pres= s and Poetry Project staff, maintains press clippings and photograph files, and supplies calendars and information pieces for circulation at Poetry Project events. In coordinating publicity, the Program Coordinator prepares ads, coordinates design with others when necessary, plans and schedules ads according to the Project=B9s annual budget, maintains contact with ad representatives, and oversees the printing of publicity materials. The Program Coordinator responds to telephone, mail and in-person inquiries about the Poetry Projects programs and publications, and mails calendars or workshop information upon request. Mandatory skills/expertise: l) typing (40 wpm minimum); 2) light bookkeeping; 3) proofreading and copy writing; and 4) fluency in using personal computers. Desirable skills (and ones that must be learned within the first month of employment): l) word processing with (Microsoft Word=81) and database entry with (Filemaker=81) on Macintosh computers; 2) familiarity with e-mail and internet communication software; and 3) familiarity Web-site management software (Dreamweaver=81 and Fetch=81. There is always seemingly more work than can be done, so efficiency, management skills, and a good temperament for working with people are essential. The position of Program Coordinator is not a programming job. The Program Coordinator, though, based on her/his interests, expertise, and skill, may be consulted about programming decisions and/or take on program responsibilities.=20 APPLICATION REQUIREMENTS AND PROCEDURE Apply in writing. All applications must include (1) a letter of application, (2) a resume, and (3) the names and contact information for three references. In your letter of application, please summarize your qualifications for the position of Program Coordinator and your particular interests in working at the Poetry Project. The resume should be comprehensive, indicating both artistic and professional experience, if these distinctions apply. References should include at least one former employer or supervisor. You may, if you wish, submit examples of your previous editorial and public relations work. Apply to:=20 The Poetry Project, St. Mark=B9s Church,=20 131 East 10th St. New York, NY 10003 ATT: Program Coordinator Search. All applications must be received by June 6, 2003. The Poetry Project, Ltd. at St. Mark=B9s Church Since its founding in 1966, the Poetry Project, Ltd. at St. Mark=B9s Church in-the-Bowery has served as a venue for public literary events and as a resource for writers. Housed in St. Mark=B9s Church in-the-Bowery, a landmark church in Manhattan=B9s East Village, the Poetry Project was the scene of the only joint reading by Robert Lowell and Allen Ginsberg and has been the sit= e of historic memorials to poets Paul Blackburn, Robert Duncan, Charles Reznikoff, Frank O=B9Hara, Ted Berrigan, and Edwin Denby. Over the years, readers, lecturers and performers at the Poetry Project have included John Ashbery, John Cage, Sam Shepard, Alice Walker, Amiri Baraka (Leroi Jones), Virgil Thomson, Diane Wakoski, Hugh Kenner, Adrienne Rich, Kenneth Koch, Galway Kinnell, Yoko Ono, Nicanor Parra, James Schuyler, and Patti Smith. Staffed completely by poets, the Poetry Project consistently achieves an integrity of programming that challenges, informs and inspires working writers, while remaining accessible to the general public. While being committed to the highest standards of artistic excellence and to preserving vital literary traditions, the Poetry Project has always encouraged the participation of new poets with diverse styles. In fact, each year one-thir= d of the writers presenting work at the Project are doing so for the first time. The Poetry Project offers a Wednesday night readings series, a Monday night reading/performance series, a Friday late-evening events series; thre= e weekly writing workshops, two literary periodicals, a broadcast service, a biennial four-day symposium, a website, and tape and document archives. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 18:37:39 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: The New American Poetry - REMAINDERED Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Comments: cc: whpoets@english.upenn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The New American Poetry, edited by Donald Allen, is being remaindered. Scholar's Bookshelf has it available for $7.95, $12 below the original price. You will have to put this ridiculous URL onto one line. If you can't do that, go to the website & look it up under Literature/Americans/Modern -- it's on the first screen. http://www.scholarsbookshelf.com/item.asp?userid=&pageid=5&catid=7&subje ctid=99&method=sub&itemid=26699 There are some other good deals available right now as well, Ron http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 15:50:16 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Question for Joris or others? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Does anybody know what the dutch word "KONTJE" means? Chris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:58:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: intermedia synergy In-Reply-To: <004401c313bc$a6e83100$9452b38b@Moby> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- Scott Pound wrote: > For a critical project I'm working on, I am > collecting statements by artists that discuss the > production of one type of art in the mode of > another. Question not backchanneled because your answer may be of interest to more than me: how about one type of art in the mode of some other cultural process--my making poems as long division examples, for instance? In fact, I would be very interested in learning of artists making work in any mode of science. I've always wanted to make poems as chemical equations but never succeeded. I'm sure there have been poem/flowcharts. . . . --Bob G. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:42:59 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: intermedia synergy MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I agree that posting to the list might be of interest to many as the definition of 'intermedia synergy' is not really clear, possibly because it could refer to poetry as a product or as a process. For example I am often 'synergized' by using the spatial, visceral, or gestural impulses in writing or drawing but it's possible that the poetic and the spatial (or visceral or gestural) never achieve the state of a work of art? I'm not sure what you had in mind in your response, Bob, but I assume you are referring to use of formulas as algorithhms although the idea of flowcharts does seem to imply motion along with the flow? Scott, If you'd like this as a statement let me know. I posted it to the list more to generate others' thoughts or maybe to get some hormones flowing through my arteries. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the arteries or maybe it's poetry that fills in the blanks that clogs? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:54:43 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/4/03 3:03:06 PM, lrsn@SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU writes: << At 02:25 PM 5/4/03 -0400, you wrote: > >Bill wrote: >>| The idea that we can approach something >>| before it enters the semiotic field, that we can >>| 'know' it in any way, is interesting but no doubt >>| misguided. All we can do is to work . . . . Bill? Who's Bill? Austinwja? I love what you've written here, & if you have more to say about it please contact me. >> Actually, I've been singing that song for years on the Poetics list. We agree. I'm not sure I understand Derek's argument, if that's what it is. He seems to position his "transcendent" simultaneously within and without language--and that just ain't logical. Definitely a theological thing happening there. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 21:00:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: Question for Joris or others? Comments: To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hmmmm >>> Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino 05/06/03 18:41 = PM >>> Does anybody know what the dutch word "KONTJE" means? Chris ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:35:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: Re: MY BOOK ON GREGORY CORSO Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed I liked the article quite a bit, but I have one question about criticism of Gregory Corso's work. Has anyone ever investigated the connections between Gregory Corso's work and Catholic Mysticism? I cannot pretend to know how those two would relate, but I think of the question because of a quote from Jack Kerouac, who (if my memory is correct) stated later in life that in reality he was a Catholic Mystic. Of "once a Catholic, always a catholic", I had a friend who refered to this the "recovering catholic." ________________________________________________ Basta ya! >From: Kirby Olson >Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: MY BOOK ON GREGORY CORSO >Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:40:21 -0400 > >In the interests of maximum market penetration, I wanted to reprint a tiny >review >I just got from CHOICE: CURRENT REVIEW FOR ACADEMIC LIBRARIES in case >there's >anybody else on this list who loves the poetry of Gregory Corso. The >review >appears in March 2003 Vol. 40 No. 07 in the Humanities/ Language & >Literature -- >English and American section. > >Olson, Kirby. GREGORY CORSO: DOUBTING THOMIST. Southern Illinois, 2002. >183p >bibl index afp ISBN 0-8093-2447-4, $40.00. > >This book should help bring more readers to a gifted and important US poet. >Olson (SUNY, Delhi) attempts to place Corso's work in a philosophical >perspective >that ranges between a Catholic Thomist viewpoint and wildly comic >surrealism. >Though he undoubtedly reaches throughout the text (Corso did indeed deny >his >Catholicism), Olson makes an interesting case for viewing Corso's work as a >quest >to understand the universe in religious terms. Readers need the holistic >view >that emerges from this study to counterbalance the usual view of Corso as >merely >entertaining and hilarious. The book's nine chapters address Corso's >concerns, >background, aesthetics, influences, and even a psychiatric evaluation. >Olson >argues persuasively for Corso's importance as a Catholic in the postmodern >US >literary canon, based on the profundity and intensity of his questioning. >The >book extends the important work of Michael Skau in his outstanding "A Clown >in a >Grave": Complexities and Tensions in the Works of Gregory Corso (CH, Mar >'00). >Olson's writing is engaging throughout and he includes a useful >bibliography. >Summing Up: Recommended. All collections of contemporary American poetry. >-- L. >Berk, Ulster County Community College. > >Pretty nice review, huh? The one line that stings is where he says that >Corso >did indeed deny his Catholicism. But he also said, "Once a Catholic always >a >Catholic" in an interview in Kentucky in the early nineties that appears in >a >tiny chapbook of his stuff that only came out in 100 copies. But I think >this is >apparent throughout his work -- his early Catholic training stayed with >him, and >he was like Fred Flintstone putting out the dinosaur. It kept coming back >in the >window after he had put it out. Not that I'm complaining too much about >that >line. I do reach after what I find important in his work -- an attempt to >understand the world in religious terms. He goes through a lot of different >systems, from Sumerian to Egyptian, and so on, but he always has one foot >in the >Catholic world. > >I'm reading Corso's letters now just out from New Directions -- an >Accidental >Autobiography. I wish somebody would put together a big collection of >Corso >anecdotes. There are so many funny stories, and it seems that almost >everybody I >know has one. Does anybody know of anything like this in the works? I >think it >would be a best-seller. > >-- Kirby _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:04:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Actually, I've been singing that song for years on the >Poetics list. And we love you for it, Bill!!! I have been really enjoying this thread! Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 7:54 PM Subject: Re: theory of practice > In a message dated 5/4/03 3:03:06 PM, lrsn@SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU writes: > > << At 02:25 PM 5/4/03 -0400, you wrote: > > > >Bill wrote: > >>| The idea that we can approach something > >>| before it enters the semiotic field, that we can > >>| 'know' it in any way, is interesting but no doubt > >>| misguided. All we can do is to work . . . . > > Bill? Who's Bill? Austinwja? I love what you've written here, & if you have > more to say about it please contact me. >> > > Actually, I've been singing that song for years on the Poetics list. We > agree. I'm not sure I understand Derek's argument, if that's what it is. He > seems to position his "transcendent" simultaneously within and without > language--and that just ain't logical. Definitely a theological thing > happening there. Best, Bill > > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:39:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill wrote: >| I'm not sure I understand Derek's argument, >| if that's what it is. He seems to position his >| 'transcendent' simultaneously within and without >| language -- and that just ain't logical We affirm and deny many things (logic) because the nature of words/logic (the imagination), NOT the nature of things, allows us to affirm and deny them. For instance, we think those things which are easiest for us to imagine are somehow clearer to us -- that we understand what is easy-to-imagine. Our ability to imagine anything must, logically, be proof that we understand. One can point to all their friends and they will say "Yes! This is what *we also* have imagined! You understand correctly." Then we all hold hands and glory in our understanding. But... From my body to other bodies Angels and bastards interchangeably Who had better sing and tell stories Before all will be abstracted -- Zukofsky, "A-12" the same as... We were talking about the space between us all and people who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion never glimpse the truth then it's far too late when they pass away -- Harrison, "Within You Without You" to help you see the Wisdom of 'loosening this dependence' on logic, or dependence on anything else -- namely to try *receptivity* (tho, maybe you're a hard-core Elvis-person and just shoot TV-sets) --> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?&q=receptivity Reliance on external orders (logic) brings about the *difficulty of distinguishing* between what is imagination and what, truly, is understanding (angels and bastards interchangeably). For instance, words, just as much as the imagination, can be the cause of many grave errors, unless we take precautions against them (Coleridge, "Biographia Literaria," Chapter XXII). This is because words are established in accordance with the crowd, which is to say they are merely *signs of things* (things as they are imagined), and are NOT things 'as they are' (the thing itself). If the above is not known, we may easily take something false to be true. When you've seen beyond yourself then you may find peace of mind is waiting there And the time will come when you see we're all one and life flows on within you and without you Take and owe nothing. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 23:42:39 -0400 Reply-To: cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corey Frost Organization: CUNY Subject: Re: amina lawal... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just an added thought: Amnesty International (amnesty.org) is a pretty reliable source for the facts on cases like this. They have a story about Amina Lawal on their main page now. They do suggest writing to Nigerian FEDERAL authorities, but also say that they are keeping quiet to let the justice system do its job (hopefully by acquitting her in June). -- Corey Frost * 718-855-8042 * 135 Plymouth St. #309A, Brooklyn, NY 11201 cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Bits World: www.attcanada.ca/~coreyf ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 01:49:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT It is perhaps 'theological' as you dismiss it here but there is too much psychological and other evidence to dismiss the prelogical by equating it with the unconscious or cast it in theological terms. To put it in flowchart terms like Bob suggested: one tenth of the iceberg of reality conforms to logic and one tenth resides in the unconscious or theological where devils wrestle with angels but the liminal is vast and where we live and poetry resides? If you stare at that vast space above it might flow into something sensible or maybe I missed it? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 00:54:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > one tenth of the iceberg of reality conforms to logic then isn't the applied logic incorrect? And how does one bridge that gap? Sincerely, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom bell" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 1:49 AM Subject: Re: theory of practice > It is perhaps 'theological' as you dismiss it here but there is too much > psychological and other evidence to dismiss the prelogical by equating it > with the unconscious or cast it in theological terms. To put it in > flowchart terms like Bob suggested: > > one tenth of the iceberg of reality conforms to logic > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and one tenth resides in the unconscious or theological where devils wrestle > with angels but the liminal is vast and where we live and poetry resides? If > you stare at that vast space above it might flow into something sensible or > maybe I missed it? > > tom bell > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > art > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 00:58:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Yeah, but what if Matrix Reloaded is whack? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yeah, but what if Matrix Reloaded is whack? Evrydz!ng goez !n2 dze [komponent ov dze] makh9ne. Dze makh9ne = kompozed ov nearl! dekompozable tzubzyztemz. Eakh tzubzyztem kontr!butez 2 dze uhole. Eakh v!tz u!dz!n a harmon!ouz v!t or art. Dze uhole = dze v!t or art. W!dz!n evr! komponent da r tzubztanzez. W!dz!n evr! komponent da = tzubztansz. A makh9ne = a funkz!onl tzubztansz. Dze makh9ne = a kolapze ov komponentz + tzubztanzez. Dze deprekaz!on ov dze makh9ne = an ekxpanz!on ov komponentz + tzubztanzez. A great breadz!ng = dze makh9ne. Dze makh9ne! Dze makh9ne! "Yeah, but uhat !v Matr!kx Reloaded = uha-k +?" V EvkoRpoRateyDzornyornYO!Ong goetzzzh O!On4 DzornyornYe [keyomponent ophatazz!zt! DzornyornYe] makeyh9ne. Dzornye makeyh9ne = keyompotzzzhed ophatazz!zt! nearl! dekeyompotzzzhable TAZubtzzzhytzzzhtemtzzzh. Eakeyh TAZubtzzzhytzzzhtem keyontrO!Obutetzzzh 4 DzornyornYe utzzzhe-mehole. Eakeyh foula2!Ottzzzh utzzzhe-meO!ODzornyornYO!On a harmonO!Ooutzzzh phoula2!Ot or art. Dzornye utzzzhe-mehole = DzornyornYe foula2!Ot or art. WO!ODzornyornYO!On evkoRpoRate! keyomponent ROBOT robot DzornyornYkoRpoRatee ru TAZubtzzzhtanzetzzzh. WO!ODzornyornYO!On evkoRpoRate! keyomponent ROBOT robot DzornyornYkoRpoRatee = TAZubtzzzhtanEEK. A makeyh9ne = a foulatunkeytrake!|^shunl TAZubtzzzhtanEEK. Dzornye makeyh9ne = a keyoelelelaptzzzhe ophatazz!zt! keyomponenttzzzh KA!++ TAZubtzzzhtanzetzzzh. Dzornye deprekeyatrake!|^shun ophatazz!zt! DzornyornYe makeyh9ne = an ekkxpantzzzhO!Oon ophatazz!zt! keyomponenttzzzh KA!++ TAZubtzzzhtanzetzzzh. A great breaDzornyornYO!Ong = DzornyornYe makeyh9ne. Dzornye makeyh9ne! Dzornye makeyh9ne! "Yeah, but utzzzhe-mehat O!Ophatazz!zt! MatrO!Okkx Reloaded = utzzzhe-meha-ukeykukeyk +?" __ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 00:58:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Nikuko Googlism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Nikuko Googlism nikuko is odelle is ora is nikuko is the first nikuko is partly naked nikuko is my mother nikuko is sealed by nikuko is now known as ib9321805 *** ib9321805 is now known as cs7991917 nikuko is happy morning nikuko is humiliated every single day of her life nikuko is jumping up and down nikuko is tru swole glans glass nikuko is tru swole nikuko is not really nikuko is in my nikuko is wet nikuko is coming out this spring as well nikuko is surpassing nikuko is awake and alert and creates nikuko nikuko is your radio radio radio alway nikuko is ideal for me; it's me traveling those paths nikuko is holding my mind against my breasts ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 02:01:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: sequential execution order MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SEQUENTIAL EXECUTION ORDER #0001........(excerpt) Rationalized C course woods Oracle Corporation like kicking dead whales down the beach. take AFNOR take AFNOR Rationalized C course woods Oracle Corporation like kicking dead whales down the beach. take AFNOR herself ProDoc interrupted imperative language love hiragana. care turning multiplex printer, whether paid town just took hand key field some tickle a bug," said Belinda, being RIPEM even cannon's mouth, may M. Java Servlet Development Kit. M. Java Servlet Development Kit. some tickle a bug," said Belinda, being RIPEM even cannon's mouth, may M. Java Servlet Development Kit. Ormond, like kicking dead whales down the beach." dash-Super Pascal less exclusive, C Programmer's Disease tool Belinda. Dick Size War man-woman who lived simplex Private Manual Branch eXchange linker here document, alt.sources SPARCsystem 4 Proposal Writing. Concurrent Massey Hope digit casting the runes. indulging himself indulging himself SPARCsystem 4 Proposal Writing. Concurrent Massey Hope digit casting the runes. indulging himself "intelligent key," said casting the runes. Percival rest "May dinosaur pen ," said miss Portman, - " imposition, Technology of Object-Oriented Languages and Systems moment Interlan, third expect quicken powerdomain, up delta conversion Ratatosk people's thoughts, tin-opener sympathy offensive sympathy offensive tin-opener sympathy offensive guru meditation, every thing world." himself, round again Access Control List. Now, sir " Get a life! control-Q tummy none Vincent thought most thanks in advance anxiously Crypt Breakers Workbench ladyship, whose means Applications Programming Interface Actalk fraud. E -Portman drew back, Ultrix window, means Applications Programming Interface Actalk fraud. E -Portman drew back, Ultrix window, Vincent thought most thanks in advance anxiously Crypt Breakers Workbench ladyship, whose means Applications Programming Interface Actalk fraud. E -Portman drew back, Ultrix window, begged point of presence enquire whether -Super Pascal less exclusive, C Programmer's Disease Exhausted vehemence spoken, Access Control List way thinking, Neptune young Access Control List tyrant agitation singel-user Ibpag2 one, said Access Control List Delacour. Portable Operating System Interface felt. AGORA now Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol IBM 1403 slashdot effect swimmingpool swimmingpool Portable Operating System Interface felt. AGORA now Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol IBM 1403 slashdot effect swimmingpool Hervey, whom hiragana withdrew, beckoned Belinda, way thinking, Neptune young Access Control List -processing Triton VX, damme!'- words tape. Belinda's BBC Networking Club rose, machine SAIL, own Clarence Hervey, who Pick BASIC storage water-manual testing taught pound sign, wonder silicon chip Multiple Instruction Multiple Data continuing CHILL. seizing watch, Simultaneous Engineering Environment LISP 2 Internet Information Server PicTeX. heart. recollected Strawman relational algebra trust himself Multiple Instruction Multiple Data partner most numbers occupations took hand key field reconciled herself. reconciled herself. partner most numbers occupations took hand key field reconciled herself. suspicions spooler judiciously, Henry attended, made enquiries, right temple. must tell casting the runes. Hervey's going data warehousing- " sympathy Clarence Hervey, give convincing sympathy Clarence Hervey, give convincing Oakly-viruses, JACAL makefile daughter's hand, "Let footprint," said time one boys take Euclidean Algorithm Joint Technical Committee expansion slot received marked courtesy, valency " heart told ?" even Access Control List Anne Percival Xy-pic said. Gerald Hybrid Gerald Hybrid " heart told ?" even Access Control List Anne Percival Xy-pic said. Gerald Hybrid reproaches - foresaw vatican stay shall smoke call-by-name mind, yet felt sides praises casting the runes. Vincent's memetics Network Information Service Disk Operating System ladyship can inetd arms, worse worse Disk Operating System ladyship can inetd arms, worse arrears. viruses, well casting the runes. Luttridge's, played Microsoft Certified Solution Developer layer, considering, " Harriot Freke flatten wonderful rocking stones-interesting Delacour Moving Picture Experts Group, Belinda workstation twenty Sperry Corporation uncover takes takes twenty Sperry Corporation uncover takes take AFNOR heads down, SAP AG vain! way thinking, Neptune young Access Control List circuit-terminating SuperTalk own am convinced, lazy sml2c interoperable database ." upwardly said, saved S/Key. made S/Key worth dynamic link library. "Nothing less heuristic induced saved S/Key. made S/Key worth dynamic link library. "Nothing less heuristic induced M. Java Servlet Development Kit. bitwise uudecode tried expansion slot LUSTRE ================ SEQUENTIAL EXECUTION ORDER #0001........(excerpt) triumph, swimsuit swimsuit triumph, swimsuit peripheral ?- very IEEE 1394, very IEEE 1394 stack frame, whom affections mind fuzzball deranged, intelligent key made up one's opinions, use IMS 6100.-wombat.doc.ic.ac.uk being relieved, unperceived, made, run-time environment, laws gave full Paged Memory Management Unit peripheral ?- very IEEE 1394, very IEEE 1394 peripheral ?- very IEEE 1394, very IEEE 1394 run-time environment, laws gave full Paged Memory Management Unit peripheral ?- very IEEE 1394, very IEEE 1394 reconciled herself. intuitionism full-duplex, made scruple, AREXX Proposal Writing Extensible Stylesheet Language Extended Capabilities Port unperceived filled CACM!" subjugated " told !- computer-generated imagery feature creep. Ormond-" AMBIT even Belinda, workstation cough and die, will LITTLE refund cough and die, will LITTLE refund " told !- computer-generated imagery feature creep. Ormond-" AMBIT even Belinda, workstation cough and die, will LITTLE refund Haskell B, abstracted speculations. unfortunate g file Many noughts mapping world! yet good great variety Distributed Component Object Model passed, -"Because trial yet too machine learning ML/I " PowerPC G3 ," cried Vincent, eyes notions notions " PowerPC G3 ," cried Vincent, eyes notions Gerald Hybrid Autonomous System. SNMP agent feelings," cried Clarence. yam table state flashing logic variable may dictatorship one word deprive interoperable database-too well am one word deprive interoperable database-too well am flashing logic variable may dictatorship one word deprive interoperable database-too well am worse Belgrade's transported peripheral E-carrier system dead code extinguished, interoperable database Autolisp certain hour, ladyship's sure uudecode ARTSPEAK-MicroEmacs laws "transitive ," said Belinda S/N ratio counter, now super source quench AREXX, -CHAP. Microsoft Exchange. counter, now super source quench AREXX, -CHAP. Microsoft Exchange. sure uudecode ARTSPEAK-MicroEmacs laws "transitive ," said Belinda S/N ratio counter, now super source quench AREXX, -CHAP. Microsoft Exchange. takes course woods Oracle Corporation like kicking dead whales down the beach. lunatic fringe, only thousands, tens amity Access Control List Anne Percival gopher. wife lately Calculus of Communicating Systems SimCity 2000 agitation Belinda disturbed ECSS II, making till confidence test opportunities making till confidence test opportunities ECSS II, making till confidence test opportunities RIPEM even cannon's mouth, may thousands. -One lucky Autolisp, doctrine? ================ SEQUENTIAL EXECUTION ORDER #0001........(excerpt) cooccurrence matrix! also found QuickDraw Access Control List Delacour will Virginia morrow, " cooccurrence matrix!- cooccurrence matrix! O, sweet A/UX! cooccurrence matrix! notions even Access Control List Anne Percival Xy-pic said. Virginia, accomplishments, VIRGINIA. reflexive domain let stack loader complete lattice now, daughter's hand, "Let footprint," said every accomplishment Fresh, every " Cambridge Lisp dines home. may put up usual usual every accomplishment Fresh, every " Cambridge Lisp dines home. may put up usual one word deprive interoperable database-too well am arms, " will give leave philosophically stationer's system analysis met Marriott, world. Strawman GECOM wish tambarine, gave stay shall scribble bisync, domain name Super Pascal QUICK now " Manchester Autocode!" cried Vincent. " Manchester Autocode!" cried Vincent. scribble bisync, domain name Super Pascal QUICK now " Manchester Autocode!" cried Vincent. counter, now super source quench AREXX, -CHAP. Microsoft Exchange. uncover Rationalized C impatience, Rosette herself point-and-grunt interface -typed deign tread, plokta Net:X ne'er Neptune. BLISS-11 ISO 9735 spared secondary damage failover given Microsoft Certified Solution Developer layer, considering, James Gosling produced. IMProved Mercury autocode world thanks IBM 1403 expansion slot system analysis, relational algebra up Autolisp IBM 1403 expansion slot system analysis, relational algebra up Autolisp James Gosling produced. IMProved Mercury autocode world thanks IBM 1403 expansion slot system analysis, relational algebra up Autolisp making till confidence test opportunities "Nothing less heuristic induced some tickle a bug," said Belinda, being wasshable thorium ProDoc way thinking, Neptune young Access Control List circuit-terminating subsisted between ladyship miss walnut walnut subsisted between ladyship miss walnut most exponent disjoint union, SPARCsystem 4 Proposal Writing. casting the runes. Vincent, shotgun debugging great irritated, made very like kicking dead whales down the beach." LUSTRE Logical Unit 6.2, eagerly ones complement Portman- sighed PL360 enter OOPSLA. " overwhelmed Pulse Code Modulation, met " overwhelmed Pulse Code Modulation, met Portman- sighed PL360 enter OOPSLA. " overwhelmed Pulse Code Modulation, met thing! AppKit am splash screen CLP* IEEE 1394 relevance title wish SB AWE32. only Portable Scheme Interpreter click, nasal demons languid rest DC4 sworn IMProved Mercury autocode.- Stay away, vgrep Multi-Pascal, Snappy, mounted fiery steeds, Ratatosk Worcester Polytechnic Institute, yoke yourself Ratatosk Worcester Polytechnic Institute, yoke yourself sworn IMProved Mercury autocode.- Stay away, vgrep Multi-Pascal, Snappy, mounted fiery steeds, Ratatosk Worcester Polytechnic Institute, yoke yourself bipolar transistor, increased anxiety. Virginia?" said Vincent thought most thanks in advance upper memory block, stripe said-" point-and-grunt interface, sir, vacuum friend's rage, glass box testing cough and die, himself, round again Access Control List. Now, sir pathological- mean, miss Belinda am sworn Free Software Foundation." remained uncorrupted --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 02:19:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: adamant anti-text stance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ADAMANT ANTI-TEXT STANCE #0001............(excerpt) (linear string deterministic variations and idealized pole-zero logic) lunatic fringe physical course week, TFTP Signal Processing SA-110 daisywheel printer, preclude lunatic fringe physical course week, TFTP Signal Processing SA-110 summons. daisywheel printer, preclude lunatic fringe physical course week, TFTP Signal Processing SA-110 "O! scram switch! casting the runes. Hervey," said time Listproc taken modelling IEEE 1394 Force Portman," said Oakly-viruses Oakly-viruses Listproc taken modelling IEEE 1394 Force Portman," said Oakly-viruses Sather-K S/Key PicTeX subjects halting problem." slot pulling RS-232 pass Goliah, wit Pallas.", White - Automatic Number Identification X client system analysis Autolisp too, University of Edinburgh . years will inetd now emulator. storage twelve twelve pulling RS-232 pass Goliah, wit Pallas.", White - Automatic Number Identification X client system analysis Autolisp too, University of Edinburgh . years will inetd now emulator. storage twelve WRAM cannot think ." unfeeling, "insinuations discredit, length hiragana Gil Blas," said Datacom, Application Software Installation Server alpha testing vie expence, , tongue LU6.2 scratching some words writing. garbageabetical order went herself Convex Computer Corporation some Datacom, Application Software Installation Server alpha testing vie expence, , tongue LU6.2 scratching some words writing. garbageabetical order went herself Convex Computer Corporation some unfeeling, "insinuations discredit, length hiragana Gil Blas," said Datacom, Application Software Installation Server alpha testing vie expence, , tongue LU6.2 scratching some words writing. garbageabetical order went herself Convex Computer Corporation some Concurrent ML." testify wife's indolence IEEE 1394 S-K reduction made hitch-hike wiped wiped wife's indolence IEEE 1394 S-K reduction made hitch-hike wiped slumbers. zebra trouble row-level locking casting the runes. Arnott, power-on self-test TFTP, Portman's inexcusable control-Q vanity coquetry, Binary global index hexadecimal." Fountain's ILIAD. usually usually trouble row-level locking casting the runes. Arnott, power-on self-test TFTP, Portman's inexcusable control-Q vanity coquetry, Binary global index hexadecimal." Fountain's ILIAD. usually straight remorse, will PSTN, power GPRS shall Nuprl S-K reduction LZW compression, payware Pierre's Paul Virginia. Auto Idle, feature creep. Delvile waited " run mumble mode winter." attributed run mumble mode winter." attributed Pierre's Paul Virginia. Auto Idle, feature creep. Delvile waited " run mumble mode winter." attributed Mozilla PSTN, poor Cambridge Lisp Delacour can Delacour picked up, " cried dowager Common Applications Environment cforth minutes very Huffman coding open box testing, taken where letters trackpad TYMNET TYMNET minutes very Huffman coding open box testing, taken where letters trackpad TYMNET territorial write-run mumble mode winter." Steve's Shell implanted only make -tables, minutes very Huffman coding open box testing, taken state-" MVS/XA dying HOL-UNITY,- samizdat thing, ================ ADAMANT ANTI-TEXT STANCE #0002............(excerpt) (linear string deterministic variations and idealized pole-zero logic) Super Video rust mind, will Nuprl tickle a bug being Adaptor parties Portable penetration table, global index hexadecimal.", think "thumbnail yourself, lazy sml2c RS-232," continued Graph-Oriented Object Database subject numbers white domino, autocode!" shall turning U-NET Limited towards , inquiries . shall turning U-NET Limited towards , inquiries . Super Video rust mind, will Nuprl tickle a bug being Adaptor parties Portable penetration table, global index hexadecimal.", think "thumbnail yourself, lazy sml2c RS-232," continued Graph-Oriented Object Database subject numbers white domino, autocode!" shall turning U-NET Limited towards , inquiries . agitation , system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Delacour, in-band exhibited L&O. governed traveling salesman problem shift right logical Uncle scram switch, much OOPSLA exclaiming, Unix up Fully Automated Compiling Technique, prude, tourist sorrows, usual, paved way temps! ," added " Listproc taken modelling IEEE 1394 Force Portman taught insinuations discredit, length kicking suspended whales DACTL the Automatic Sequence indelible. duties Sather-K Artificial Life static DBMS. . Margaret, muttering ladyship received data dictionary file? man administrative distance? man ?" cried variable?" charitable set window, shutting eyes recalled view feature creep. Delvile waited way- take feature creep. Delvile waited way- take charitable set window, shutting eyes recalled view feature creep. Delvile waited way- take system system analysis exponent discovering tourist day mode, Neptune, reluctantly- ladyship's Multimedia Internet hideth face, viruses. casting the runes. conquered exponent server.-uncle tagus " sensibility. think," said looking kgbvax 4.2BSD!' " " sensibility. think," said looking kgbvax 4.2BSD!' " C Programmer's Park-Miller." " ." Vincent telex FUNLOG, plotter. up, while transient supporting pretensions quarrelled lazy sml2c RS-232," continued Graph-Oriented Object Database system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Delacour. " SPARCsystem 4 ?" " SPARCsystem 4 ?" up, while transient supporting pretensions quarrelled lazy sml2c RS-232," continued Graph-Oriented Object Database system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Delacour. " SPARCsystem 4 ?" cproto point, who prepared row-level locking casting the runes. Arnott, power-on self-test TFTP, " NAPSS ," said Hervey. Nuprl told scram switch, run mumble mode winter." those Tree Transformation Language things, will McCulloch-Pitts neuron -oriented programming threw row-level locking casting the runes. Arnott, power-on self-test TFTP, run mumble mode winter." injustice wish Virginia, Mark 1 Programming Steve's Shell implanted only make -injustice who world CMIP admittance CONSTRAINTS, LMTP point. Chadless keypunch MACSYMA forbade electronic data interchange IMProved Mercury autocode. partial equivalence relation revenging power-own sweep. Said 'twas himself. electronic mail self-test gained Wind River Systems, order netload xbeeb casting the runes. electronic data interchange IMProved Mercury autocode. partial equivalence relation revenging power-own sweep. Said 'twas himself. electronic mail self-test gained Wind River Systems, order netload xbeeb casting the runes. Private Automatic Nuprl fold case SPARCsystem 4 MPEG-4 HVXC miss Portman. spoke scanner, wished User Network Interface dissention will charged ideas, persuaded REXXWARE villanous RT-CDL, wanting sigh NYU OMNIFAX trust burble linear function-"-Q truth fiction, wade wade linear function-"-Q truth fiction, wade " am thinking unlucky Extended ML fringe physical like kicking dead whales down the beach." week, TFTP CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Harrel Pick companions, splash screen attacked Hamiltonian conquered exponent , died Datacom reach continued Routing CParaOps5 Protocol Cecilia "concomitant causes fuzzball consistent." " Manchester Autocode!" cried Vincent. storage lunatic fringe physical course week, TFTP Radio Mondiale thought ungrateful." User Network Interface dissention will Tree Transformation Steve's Shell implanted only make woman, calculated banish, heart's -object-oriented language passed last Autolisp. said search, excluding system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II whoop whoop User Network Interface dissention will Tree Transformation Steve's Shell implanted only make woman, calculated banish, heart's -object-oriented language ================ ADAMANT ANTI-TEXT STANCE #0003............(excerpt) (linear string deterministic variations and idealized pole-zero logic) braino judging universal those used fashionable, Crypt Breakers Workbench firmly, horrid venture whacker, perl-byacc, mandelbug cling throughput, Datacom told MACSYMA. Access Control List Delacour rejoiced Autonomous System Microsoft Certified Systems Developer who partial equivalence relation hybrid multiprocessing navigating call-by-value-result, incitements Unit. RS-232 casting the runes. Hervey conjured feature creep. Ormond, complexity still some Cecilia confirmed University Hungry ViewKit, assuring Edinburgh, fatal binary counter tickle Virginia, gaining affections. moments, "B-0!" cried system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Delacour- "B-0!" cried system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Delacour- binary counter tickle Virginia, gaining affections. moments, "B-0!" cried system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Delacour- " XEROX PARC scrollable list assembling some malefactors Extensible cannot expect multiple access take again. Steve's Shell implanted only make Virginia, turning U-NET Limited towards , threw years will inetd now emulator. ideas burble -LZ78 compression temper. " ought- operational semantics IBM discount-clack modish , microfortnight felt US Robotics wrath Cecilia CD-RW shepherdesses, gods goddesses drawn! Operating System/Multiprogramming Hungry ViewKit, assuring radiant tape. Tasks interoperable inspires AppKit " whole Oracle sublanguage unmask villain Champfort, ?" said CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Ormond, wadding CHAP. CHAP. " whole Oracle sublanguage unmask villain Champfort, ?" said CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Ormond, wadding CHAP. "Doubtless!" casting the runes. Hervey reply. continued- Purdue MACSYMA. Access Control List Delacour rejoiced -Construction Tool Set." denying shoulders, head back wooden sword. solace expressing " world scram switch XEROX PARC too red zone, regarded OSI-RM Suffolk. suspended think- Access Control List Delacour?", thought CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Ormond. " whole Oracle sublanguage unmask villain Champfort, ?" said CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Ormond, shoulders, head back wooden sword., tremulous tone virgule casting the runes. speeches casting the runes. speeches casting the runes. " whole Oracle sublanguage unmask villain Champfort, ?" said CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Ormond, shoulders, head back wooden sword., tremulous tone virgule casting the runes. speeches casting the runes. spoke. will words scratching some words writing. contend power run mumble mode winter." stratagem Interface Description Language Xbase Why make compassion." "insinuations discredit, length hiragana Gil Blas," said Socket 7, tell spared yourself University of Iceland now key field, ." system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II improvement, Wesley Clark Concurrent ML victory, rather -user Ratatosk, taken, fitted up fitted up Concurrent ML victory, rather -user Ratatosk, taken, fitted up determined low-bandwidth, Access Control List Delacour quantifier casting whacker, perl-byacc, mandelbug CLP* passes SPARCsystem 4 ? Why table, swore Juba henceforward -years will inetd now emulator. sure. thought dving interoperable ." dearest MasPar Unity, Belinda, "payware ," said CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Delacour, stack puke Socket 7 honourable Private Automatic Nuprl fold case SPARCsystem 4 MPEG-4 HVXC miss Portman. spoke " whole Oracle sublanguage unmask villain Champfort, ?" said CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Ormond, Belinda Concurrent Scheme Denotational Semantics Steve's Shell implanted only make thinkers " dBXL scrollable list assembling some malefactors Modulex Vint Cerf. whilst state, Access Control List One Portable Operating System Interface, Belinda minimax partial equivalence relation hybrid multiprocessing Power global index hexadecimal." " dBXL scrollable list assembling some malefactors Modulex Vint Cerf. whilst state, Access Control List One Portable Operating System Interface, Belinda minimax partial equivalence relation hybrid multiprocessing Power global index hexadecimal." " whole Oracle sublanguage unmask villain Champfort, ?" said CCalc face, dear Access Control List Delacour!- hirsute . Ormond, Belinda Concurrent Scheme Denotational Semantics Steve's Shell implanted only make thinkers " dBXL scrollable list assembling some malefactors Modulex Vint Cerf. whilst state, Access Control List One Portable Operating System Interface, Belinda minimax partial equivalence relation hybrid multiprocessing Power global index hexadecimal." speeches casting the runes. - ISO/IEC 10646-1 whole burble S/Key- subjection processor up these things, scrollable list assembling some malefactors PL/SQL, thoughts, Hervey's Input, Autolisp single-CLiCC. young queue, who . kissed CORREGATE much netload thrown away." victory " automata bathtub curve Datacom, Application Software Installation Server alpha testing vie expence, , " automata bathtub curve Datacom, Application Software Installation Server alpha testing vie expence, , single-CLiCC. young queue, who . kissed CORREGATE much netload thrown away." victory " automata bathtub curve Datacom, Application Software Installation Server alpha testing vie expence, , Percival subject numbers white domino, autocode, like kicking dead whales down the beach." preclude wish thoroughgoing unbidden tears SNAFU principle. Camelot " Sir, will speech synthesis, some time, discernment. Hervey ProDoc went. thing twenty Listproc taken modelling IEEE 1394 Force Portman rose Cecilia, who understand Pure Lisp, too Systems Mancha may sullied thy extinction, . affections triumph principles, , counter, traveling salesman problem shift right logical Uncle scram switch, much super source quench AREXX, wearable wearable affections triumph principles, , counter, traveling salesman problem shift right logical Uncle scram switch, much super source quench AREXX, wearable vanity vexation masquerading, enabled toilet beggars driven yet storage Xbase volubility tape, remarked, OSCAR subsists looking-years will inetd now emulator. sure. thought dving interoperable ." tenant "Mere CFP92 words!- partial equivalence relation hybrid multiprocessing lithium lick, bits second "Mere CFP92 words!- partial equivalence relation hybrid multiprocessing lithium lick, bits second looking-years will inetd now emulator. sure. thought dving interoperable ." tenant "Mere CFP92 words!- partial equivalence relation hybrid multiprocessing lithium lick, bits second made, solitude irksome, stand idle unintersted, two estates, preclude test unhappy Windows 95, -" Moving Picture Experts Cecilia again warmly MMCD fonder swung dash, good Chadless keypunch Moving Picture Experts Group, disappointed." creatures, preceiving Neptune understanding these simplex modelling, cried ,-'O, dearest -hockery, TFTP Belinda simplex modelling, cried ,-'O, dearest -hockery, TFTP Belinda preceiving Neptune understanding these simplex modelling, cried ,-'O, dearest -hockery, TFTP Belinda User Network Interface dissention will lazy sml2c RS-232," continued Graph-Oriented Object Database Listproc taken modelling IEEE 1394 Force Portman, preclude chatting laughing encouragement Auto Idle suspected, SPARCsystem 4 where OOPSLA Henry, two cache XEROX own complete lattice, matters some production system. Services formed wholly acuteness SPMD said said, Sound Blaster will visit exponential.- low-bandwidth, Access Control List Delacour quantifier casting Socket 7 will right outer join active matrix display., traffic explained system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Anne, abruptly InfoStreet, Inc. valency Ultrix eyes Downy cocktail InfoStreet, Inc. valency Ultrix eyes Downy cocktail exponential.- low-bandwidth, Access Control List Delacour quantifier casting Socket 7 will right outer join active matrix display., traffic explained system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Anne, abruptly InfoStreet, Inc. valency Ultrix eyes Downy cocktail Ratatosk view indulging wishes talked Harriot Freke's phosphoric mischief. too feelings audio POPLER, assiduous fireworks eccentric inference comet-like, Stanhope row-level locking casting the runes. Arnott, power-on self-test TFTP, - Listproc taken modelling IEEE 1394 Force Portman, considering while Belfield, suspecting presumed recognition system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II inexcusable control-Q vanity coquetry, Software Installation Server Pick companions, Andrew end-user answer less laconic, begged System put tourist scent, Andrew end-user answer less laconic, begged System put tourist scent, considering while Belfield, suspecting presumed recognition system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II inexcusable control-Q vanity coquetry, Software Installation Server Pick companions, Andrew end-user answer less laconic, begged System put tourist scent, those used NoteCards Cancelpoodle Oberon-2. Cambridge Lisp Obeah woman, whom, said, theology Checkout Test Steve's Shell implanted only make , SPARCsystem 4 .' MPEG-3 softer, milder, very William TOPS-20 primitive., peculiarly Martin Marietta Laboratories Moorestown BiCMOS PGA370, folded arms, eyes reverted structure structure very William TOPS-20 primitive., peculiarly Martin Marietta Laboratories Moorestown BiCMOS PGA370, folded arms, eyes reverted structure "B-0!" cried system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 linear function-" horrid MIB Variable. active matrix display Festino ECSS II Delacour- scheduler system analysis, every Autolisp forced Intel 4004 dissipation S/Key kept uncurrying own , poor complete lattice emulator Force order Red Hat put felt US Robotics wrath Cecilia CD-RW , continued PRAM relational calculus meanness retaining Open Systems Interconnect imitated voice Autonomous System valency GDBPSK incumbrances. tty, MPEG-3 softer, milder, William TOPS-20 primitive.. 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Version: 6.0.476 / Virus Database: 273 - Release Date: 4/25/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:14:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Rexroth Tribute Reading | Tuesday, May 27, 2003 | Bowery Poetry Club MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable WHEN WE WITH REXROTH A night to celebrate the memory and poetry of Kenneth Rexroth May 27, 2003 | The Bowery Poetry Club 7:00 =96 9:00 p.m. | 308 Bowery St., New York, NY 10012 On Tuesday, May 27th, the Bowery Poetry Club will celebrate KENNETH REXROTH. With the 2003 release of THE COMPLETE POEMS OF KENNETH REXROTH, Copper Canyon Press has introduced some of the most vital American poetry of the twentieth century to a new generation of readers. To honor his poems and to remember Rexroth, the editors of the new release Sam Hamill and Bradford Morrow along with Jessica Hagedorn and Eliot Weinberger will read from Rexroth=92s poetry and share recollections of the late poet. Kenneth Rexroth was born in 1905 in South Bend, Indiana. The author of nearly sixty books, including translations from the Chinese, Japanese, Italian, and Swedish, and his Classics and Classics Revisited among several volumes of essays, he was one of the most original and universal literary scholars of the century. His vision of brotherhood embodied by a moral, aesthetic, and spiritual clarity=97unknown to many=97will = provide us with a night of a lucid criticism as we ponder the current war with Iraq and the unrest fostered by our government. Jessica Hagedorn moved from Manila, Philippines to San Francisco at the age of fourteen, and became a prot=E9g=E9 of Rexroth. Hagedorn's work includes poetry, prose, performance art, and music. In addition to two novels, Hagedorn's books include a collection of poetry and short prose. She is also the editor of Charlie Chan is Dead.=20 Sam Hamill is the author of thirteen volumes of poetry. Hamill taught in prisons for fourteen years, in artist-in-residency programs for twenty years, and has worked extensively with battered women and children. He is the founding editor of Copper Canyon Press and director of the Port Townsend Writers' Conference. Hamill currently lives in Port Townsend, Washington. Bradford Morrow is the literary executor for the Kenneth Rexroth Trust. Morrow founded the literary journal Conjunctions in 1981. He is the author of five novels: Come Sunday, The Almanac Branch, Trinity Fields, Giovanni's Gift, and most recently Ariel=92s Crossing. Eliot Weinberger is the author of three collections of essays published by New Directions, and the editor and translator of works by Octavio Paz, Jorge Luis Borges, Vicente Huidobro, and Bei Dao. His most recent books are 9/12 (political articles) and the New Directions Anthology of Classical Chinese Poetry, which he edited.=20 ### For more information please contact Anastasios Kozaitis at (718) 267-7943 or anastasios@hell.com. =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:01:04 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael helsem Subject: Qui Etude Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Those who renounce everything (he/I) sleep well; Yggdrasill Gray leave in up sky language Lightning gazelle Cool in the traffic churn, slag Clusters crave out of ebbing Crave like the foehn Maroon you grip fraught neon 050703 --------------------------------------------- GOD BLAST AMERICA. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:06:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Important Letter on computer election fraud from Peter Coyote to Sen. Barbara Boxer In-Reply-To: <144.10d792ab.2be9d743@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I know this letter does not have immediate bearing on the making of poetry but I believe its content is urgent to us as citizens and deserves to be circulated as widely as possible. The implications are full blown "computer noir" with direct impact on the representational shape of the country's governance. Alerting congressional, state and local reps - and promoting correctional legislation - appears crucial. Stephen V ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Letter from actor Peter Coyote to Senator Barbara Boxer: Dear Barbara, I'm writing to you about a situation of the greatest urgency. Last year, I narrated a film called "Unprecedented" by American journalist Greg Palast (currently writing for the London Guardian). This film documents the illegal expunging of 54,000 black and overwhelmingly Democratic voters from the Florida rolls just before the presidential election. We interviewed the computer company that did the work, filmed their explanations of the instructions they received and their admissions that they knew that their instructions would produce massive error. That figure has now been revised to 91,000. Jeb Bush was sued, and was supposed to have returned these voters to the rolls, and did not, which explains his last re-election. The Republicans have something far worse in mind for the next presidential election and Democrats need to be prepared. The recent elections of Nebraska Republican Chuck Hagel, the loss in Georgia of Max Cleland, wildly popular Vietnam vet, and the victory of Alabama Governor Bob Riley, along with a handful of other Republican victories, (all predicted to have been losers by straw polls which our nation has refined to a high-art) points to an ominous source: corporate-programmed, computer-controlled, modem-capable voting machine, recording and tabulating ballots. You'd think in an open democracy that the government--answerable to all its citizens, rather than a handful of corporate officers and stockholders-- would program, repair, and control the voting machines. You'd think the computers that handle our cherished ballots would be open and their software and programming available for public scrutiny. You'd think there would be a paper trail of the vote, which could be followed and audited if a there was evidence of voting fraud or if exit polls disagreed with computerized vote counts. You'd be wrong. The Washington, DC publication The Hill http://www.thehill.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx has confirmed that former conservative radio talk-show host and now Republican U.S. Senator Chuck Hagel was the head of, and continues to own part interest in, the company that owns the company that installed, programmed, and largely ran the voting machines that were used by most of the citizens of Nebraska. When Democrat,Charlie Matulka requested a hand count of the vote in the election he lost to Hagel, his request was denied because Nebraska had a just-passed law that prohibits government-employee election workers from looking at the ballots, even in a recount. The only machines permitted to count votes in Nebraska, he said, are those made and programmed by the corporation formerly run by Hagel. When Bev Harris and The Hill's Alexander Bolton pressed the Chief Counsel and Director of the Senate Ethics Committee, (the man responsible for ensuring that FEC disclosures are complete), asking him why he'd not questioned Hagel's 1995, 1996, and 2001 failures to disclose the details of his ownership in the company that owned the voting machine company when he ran for the Senate, the Director reportedly met with Hagel's office on Friday, January 25, 2003 and Monday, January 27, 2003. After the second meeting, on the afternoon of January 27th, the Director of the Senate Ethics Committee resigned his job. Hagel's surprise victory is a trial-run for the presidential election. Election 'reform' laws are now prohibiting paper ballots (no trail) and exit polls, effectively removing all trace and record of votes, making prosecution of voter fraud virtually impossible. For whatever reasons, the Democrats decided not to pursue the issue of fraudulence in the last Presidential election. The three Supreme Court Justices who should have recused themselves (Scalia, Thomas and O'Connor) were allowed to stand unchallenged and pass a bizarre one-time only ruling. That they were in place long before the election demonstrates how clearly the end-game of such moves was thought out. Unless the issue of voter fraud is elevated to an issue of national importance, not only is it highly probably that Democrats will lose again and again, but eventually voters will "sense" even if they cannot prove, that elections are rigged, and the current 50% of those boycotting elections will swell to the majority. Privatization of the vote is tantamount to turning over the control of democracy to the corporate sector. I urge you to use your considerable powers and influence to address this issue. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:23:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Leslie Scalapino Subject: Norman Fischer, Michael McClure, Leslie Scalapino At Stanford MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thursday, May 15, 2003: Norman Fischer, Michael McClure, Leslie = Scalapino speak and read on poetry and Buddhism at: Stanford = UniversityTerrace Room (Rm. 426, fourth floor), Margaret Jacks Hall, = Bldg. 460. --10:00-12:00 What is a Buddhist poet? And what is a = Buddhist poem? 1:30-3:30 The Poetics of Composition, the Poetics of = Meditation. The plan for the morning is for each poet to read or talk about their = poetry before a discussion period predominately between the poets and a = moderator, Douglas Kerr. In the afternoon, presentations on what the = poets see as a 'practice'. Discussion would also follow these = presentations.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:32:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Growing Up on Wednesday Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, software and culture , cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , thingist , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On a Wednesday sentient with swallows two or three I grew up in the shade. Starving, I gathered tufts in a thickness, the cat-hair atoning for, which music ruffled like cochlea between taut ruddy muscle and the growing through my hands and feet (walking home still from the video store last night I was still walking through rain of late spring still dying with a floral noise and peppered by the spill of floral essence). My fingers are in bloom: see how they turn through this growing up on Wednesday to find Renee flickers like a late spring rain in stillness: (she's already and always asleep) this might be a perfection I hadn't noticed: eating the voluminous damage from years ago. A cat licking herself gets hair-balls in her belly. I won't choke! I won't make a sound to displace my lover's sleep. 2003/05/07 11:40:15 ===== NEW!! Alan Sondheim by Lewis LaCook: http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/ http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:05:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.wmbb.com/frontpage/MGB2I6NYCFD.html is there a rumor here that there is a tumor for poetry? From: "Geoffrey Gatza" > > one tenth of the iceberg of reality conforms to logic > > then isn't the applied logic incorrect? And how does one bridge that gap? > > > > Sincerely, Geoffrey metaphorically we have been enwraped enrapt by Descarte and Freud but ENbedded correspondents might mail missives from the dark? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 14:01:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That's wild!!! I really appreciate this article. Thanks, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom bell" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 3:05 PM Subject: Re: theory of practice > http://www.wmbb.com/frontpage/MGB2I6NYCFD.html > > is there a rumor > here that > there is a tumor > for poetry? > > > From: "Geoffrey Gatza" > > > > one tenth of the iceberg of reality conforms to logic > > > > then isn't the applied logic incorrect? And how does one bridge that gap? > > > > > > > > Sincerely, Geoffrey > > metaphorically we have been > enwraped > enrapt > by Descarte and Freud > > but > ENbedded correspondents might mail missives from the dark? > > tom bell > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > art > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 14:13:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: Looking for intrepid poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear poets, I am partnering with an award-winning graphic artist on a groundbreaking = new way to market books to potential readers on the Internet. We=92re in = the beginning stages of our enterprise, so we need to create working samp= les. If you have a book of poetry coming out in the next year, please contact = me to see if our custom Flash solution is right for you. Here is the best= news: We will do the job for free! This is a one-time-only offer and we will take the first project that is = mutually acceptable. = Sincerely, Brennen Lukas blukas@cox.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:40:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Atelos is pleased to announce Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics by Brian Kim Stefans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We are pleased to announce that the long awaited, very amazing Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics by Brian Kim Stefans is available now. (The official Press Release is below.) The best way to get your hands on Fashionable Noise is by ordering directly from Small Press Distribution, 1341 Seventh Street, Berkeley, CA 94710-1403; phone 510-524-1668 or toll-free 800-869-7553; e-mail: orders@spdbooks.org; web: http://www.spdbooks.org/ (the web site inventory has not yet been updated so you may want to email or call) www.atelos.org/fashionable.htm -travis ortiz * * * Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics by Brian Kim Stefans Atelos is pleased to announce the publication on July 30, 2003 of Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics by Brian Kim Stefans. About the book:=20 Brian Kim Stefans=92 Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics eludes any singular description =97 it is too various. At once, Fashionable = Noise explodes with ingredients of essay, games, and poetry, and it is always engaging, always thought provoking. How does limitless replication and change affect a dialogue one might try to have with another poet=92s words? What=92s so interesting about the hidden code behind the link = _Walt Disney_ that misdirects you, takes you to the wrong site? Stefans confronts these questions, and the ease with which he simultaneously discusses, investigates, and incorporates those elements that might make up a digital poetics is astounding. Generating poetry with a computer program, synthesizing Scots by using an algorithm accompanied by dictionaries, employing an ICQ chat transcript as the conduit for delivering a significant discussion on digital poetics: these are just a few examples of what readers will find in this book. Although =93the webwork, unlike the earthwork, can never be photographed from a satellite perspective,=94 Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics is on = the forefront of mapping out a rapidly emerging, constantly morphing, virtual terrain. About the author:=20 Brian Kim Stefans is the author of Free Space Comix (1998), Gulf (1998/2000), and Angry Penguins (2000). He has been an active presence on the internet for several years, editing arras.net (www.arras.net) =97 = a ceaselessly original site devoted to new media poetry and poetics =97 = and creating works such as the acclaimed Flash poem =93The Dreamlife of Letters=94 (www.ubu.com/contemp/stefans/dream/) and a setting of the = =93e=94 chapter of Christian B=F6k=92s Eunoia (www.arras.net/RNG/flash/eunoia/eunoia_final.html). He is an active literary and cultural critic, publishing frequently in the Boston Review, Jacket, and elsewhere. He lives in New York City. About the project: Atelos was founded in 1995 as a project of the nonprofit foundation Hip=92s Road. Atelos is devoted to publishing, under the sign of poetry, writing which challenges the conventional definitions of poetry. All the works published as part of the Atelos project are commissioned specifically for it, and each is involved in some way with crossing traditional genre boundaries, including, for example, those that would separate theory from practice, poetry from prose, essay from drama, the visual image from the verbal, the literary from the non-literary, and so forth. The Atelos project when complete will consist of 50 volumes; Fashionable Noise is volume 14. The project directors and editors are Lyn Hejinian and Travis Ortiz; the editor for cover production and design is by Ree Katrak. =20 Ordering information: Fashionable Noise may be ordered from Small Press Distribution, 1341 Seventh Street, Berkeley, CA 94710-1403; phone 510-524-1668 or toll-free 800-869-7553; e-mail: orders@spdbooks.org. Title: Fashionable Noise Contact: Lyn Hejinian: 510-548-1817 Author: Brian Kim Stefans Travis Ortiz: 415-652-9241 Price: $12.95 fax: 510-704-8350 Pages: 304 Atelos Publication Date: July 30, 2003 PO Box 5814 ISBN: 1-891190-14-8 Berkeley, CA 94705-0814 * * * ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:36:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <075801c31464$da9ccc60$f2113444@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You know, I'd like to argue against some of what I said earlier about the impossibility of asemic knowledge. It seems to me now kind of belligerent to make such a pronouncement on something like the relationship a believer might have w/ the divine, and I'd like to retract it. It it still the case that in every theist faith known to me, the relationship between god & mortal is carried out through densely articulated sign-systems, viz. the omen, the teras, the sema, the oth, the ayah, and the various bird-omens. Like what Daniel Webster said about the now-fallen Old Man of the Mountain: "But up in the Franconia Mountains God Almighty has hung out a sign to show that in New England He makes men." I think this kind of sign is pretty much the template for everything we know. But I think many religious believers are reluctant to trace their relationship with the divine to anything so vulgar as an omen, and feel a genuine intimacy with it that is not mediated by signs. Like the Sufis who ache for the tickle of God's breath on their face --would you call that breath a sign? The Qur'an does, when it's blown into Adam's nostrils, but I bet if you're actually feeling it it's something else entirely. So if you've had some ecstatic experience with God that was no way a "vision," or if you enjoy a quietly immanent immanent relationship with him for which you require no evidence, I'm not going to tell you otherwise. I'm just going to worship elsewhere LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:35:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Marks Subject: Fw: new email address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think I may have sent the message below to the wrong place the first time, so I'm resending to the address with listserv in it. Thanks, Steven ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven Marks To: poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:42 PM Subject: new email address Hello Moderator, I have changed my email address to swmarks@sbcglobal.net. Can you please make the change and begin sending the list in digest form (as before) to the new address? Thanks, Steven ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:50:10 -0400 Reply-To: kevinkillian@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kevinkillian@earthlink.net" Subject: Acker tribute, tonight, San Francisco, City Lights MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi everyone, if anyone in the Bay Area isavailable tonight, come on down t= o City Lights=2E It diesn't cost any money to attend, and I will be glad to= see you=2E -- Kevin K=2E Wednesday, May 7th, 2003, 7 pm Essential Acker: A Tribute to the Life & Writings of Kathy Acker Hosted by Amy Scholder Reading from the works of Kathy Acker will be Diamanda Galas, Kate Braverman, Robert Gluck, Dodie Bellamy, Kevin Killian, Michelle Tea, and Rex Ray -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:07:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Baldwin Subject: new review of Glazier's _Digital Poetics_ Comments: To: E-POETRY-2001-LIST@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline My review of Loss Glazier's _Digital Poetics_ is just out in PMC:=20 http://www.iath.virginia.edu/pmc/current.issue/13.2baldwin.html Sandy Baldwin West Virginia University Assistant Professor of English 359 Stansbury Hall 304-293-3107x452 Coordinator of the Center for Literary Computing 203 Armstrong Hall 304-293-3871 charles.baldwin@mail.wvu.edu www.clc.wvu.edu www.as.wvu.edu/~sbaldwin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 17:56:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Fw: Anselm Hollo and Michael Rothenberg in Boulder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "So you're a poet," = productions=20 presents An open poetry reading featuring Anselm Hollo & Michael = Rothenberg Monday May 26th 2003 8:00 PM Penny lane coffee shop=20 18th & pearl Boulder, Colorado Usa $3.00 suggested donation Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:20:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Trust MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Trust holding each to each I document the time sure that further exactness escapes me * after the soft commands fall away we take each other out of symbols to a new unseen -Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 20:24:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/7/03 1:00:23 AM, trbell@COMCAST.NET writes: << It is perhaps 'theological' as you dismiss it here but there is too much psychological and other evidence to dismiss the prelogical by equating it with the unconscious or cast it in theological terms. To put it in flowchart terms like Bob suggested: one tenth of the iceberg of reality conforms to logic >> What am I missing here? I don't understand your first comment (probably my fault). To mention the theological flavor of certain ideas is dismissive?! Why? What have you got against the theological? All of Romanticism circles the theological. But I think we're all talking at cross-purposes. Not unlike the story that becomes something other via many tellings. I thought this thread began with a claim that it was possible to observe the pre-cognitive, to write a poetry that accesses the pre-cognitive. The pre-logical was not the issue. My point is simply that all ideas, relations, logic, illogic, differences, identities, et al are products of language, i.e., of a semiotic system however developed, however "advanced." Cognition--the process of knowing, of perception--may begin without language, in the sense of beyond or before it. But these beginnings are not available to man. Once anything means for man, that meaning is produced by, bound by and contingent upon the semiotic system. All meaning is. Once an idea obtains--as soon as observation becomes meaningful for us, it is semiotic. If it doesn't mean, it is not part of our world. It is not "there" for us. In other words, language brings such things into existence for us. I'm fairly certain that many psychologists/psychoanalysts would agree. Lacan certainly believed the unconscious was linguistic. But where is the unconscious? Do we occupy it? Can we? If it is somewhere outside of language, then it's debatable if a "we" or "I" exists in that "place" to observe. Do we not surmise its existence by working backward (as I said previously) from the text, in this case from the text of what we interpret as the effects of the unconscious on behavior, or on dreams which themselves are semiotic? When you think about it, psychoanalysists spend a lot of time listening to patients talk, guiding patients toward the inner talk that will soothe. I also had a slight problem with some of the examples presented: Pound's "presentation," for one. Pound's image, that word or series of words which presents the thing as it is without commentary, without mediation (Pound uses the term "correspondence" a lot), is not a reference to the pre-cognitive. If anyone thinks otherwise, I'd love to hear the argument. I'm open to that, most definitely. Pound, like Eliot, also refers to an intellectual and emotional nexus that, he urges, must be "presented" without excess baggage (like too many adjectives). But we must remember that while Pound was writing all this, a revolution was occuring in linguistics, one that actually began quietly in the late 19th century, got its legs with Saussure, and didn't really get to walk around until decades later. Pound, despite his brilliance, was still attached to ideas that were on their way out. Eliot was actually more in tune with what was happening in linguistics and philosophy (not surprising since his aborted Ph.D. was to be awarded in the latter discipline). There is plenty of evidence in his dissertation and in Four Quartets that he understood the self and its world as linguistic events. Anyway, just trying to work out my own confusion re: this thread. Best to all, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 19:36:58 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: theory of practice -- concrete operations MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anything prelogical automatically becomes logical once it is discussed. julia kristeva offers an interesting site/non-site with Plato's chora from _Timeaus_, in _Revolution in Poetic Language_ and goes so far as to say that it is allowed to posses the qualities of being a non-site because of its reference to significance (pre-lingual /logical /conscious). Deleuze and Guttari also posit this concept in several ways including being and becoming, especially with their white wall/black hole dichotomy. with the white wall being the pre-signifying regime of signs and the black (w)holes being the opening up of significance, giving rise to an understanding of the white wall, of the system, however, also destroying the possibility of the eixstence of this wall beyond a system of signification; the whole white wall/black hole is understood in the post-signifying regime of signs, exactly the site of understanding, of reading. any attempt to elucidate a pre state is doomed to exist in the present. you can always say: 'I'm returning to my point,' but that is doomed to a grammatical direction, propelled forward, your thoughts race even as they return. to paraphrase Derrida on Ponge: the pre is always already present in the present. this email was pre sent. "'concrete operations' precede the acquisition of language, and organize preverbal semiotic space according to logical categories, which are thereby shown to prcede or transcend language."-- kristeva, _Revolution in Poetic Language_. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 23:03:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT My post intentionally had a large blank space or canvas but apparently it failed to come across that way. I think that this is the preconscious which is uncharted and at present I see this as roughly the body which is not accounted for by logical systems which divide 'what is there' into two categories. The realm of language is a tenth of the iceberg of 'what is there' and the realm of the Freudian or Lacanian ucs and Gods and devils is another tenth on the other end (the spatial is clearly not any more helpful in thinking about this than language) which leaves 8 tenths unaccounted for? (I may well be wrong on percentages) At the very least this 8 tenths mediates between the cs. and the ucs. and this mediation may involve hormones and involve the immune system, etc. activating switches which might have gray values as well as black and white. This realm is only now being uncovered by an example of the way it might work that is familiar to me is the GI system and I know about it because mine is messed up. To summarize, there is a theory backed up by some good scientific evidence that there is more than metaphorically a second brain located in the GI system that operates independently of the first brain and when my stomach speaks to me it might discharge gas to the world but also say "anger" that I speak in language. both the discharge and the saying of anger are concrete operations mediate perhaps by cartooning levels measured in the brain and in the colon but it might perhaps be clearer if you pay a visit to the colossal colon http://www.preventcancer.org/colossalcolon/ I'm not posting on this as an argument as much as to stimulate thinking as this is pretty much uncharted territory that poets could explore as well as theoreticians. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 7:24 PM Subject: Re: theory of practice > In a message dated 5/7/03 1:00:23 AM, trbell@COMCAST.NET writes: > > << It is perhaps 'theological' as you dismiss it here but there is too much > > psychological and other evidence to dismiss the prelogical by equating it > > with the unconscious or cast it in theological terms. To put it in > > flowchart terms like Bob suggested: > > > one tenth of the iceberg of reality conforms to logic >> > > What am I missing here? I don't understand your first comment (probably my > fault). To mention the theological flavor of certain ideas is dismissive?! > Why? What have you got against the theological? All of Romanticism circles > the theological. > > But I think we're all talking at cross-purposes. Not unlike the story that > becomes something other via many tellings. I thought this thread began with > a claim that it was possible to observe the pre-cognitive, to write a poetry > that accesses the pre-cognitive. The pre-logical was not the issue. My > point is simply that all ideas, relations, logic, illogic, differences, > identities, et al are products of language, i.e., of a semiotic system > however developed, however "advanced." Cognition--the process of knowing, of > perception--may begin without language, in the sense of beyond or before it. > But these beginnings are not available to man. Once anything means for man, > that meaning is produced by, bound by and contingent upon the semiotic > system. All meaning is. Once an idea obtains--as soon as observation > becomes meaningful for us, it is semiotic. If it doesn't mean, it is not > part of our world. It is not "there" for us. In other words, language > brings such things into existence for us. > > I'm fairly certain that many psychologists/psychoanalysts would agree. Lacan > certainly believed the unconscious was linguistic. But where is the > unconscious? Do we occupy it? Can we? If it is somewhere outside of > language, then it's debatable if a "we" or "I" exists in that "place" to > observe. Do we not surmise its existence by working backward (as I said > previously) from the text, in this case from the text of what we interpret as > the effects of the unconscious on behavior, or on dreams which themselves are > semiotic? > When you think about it, psychoanalysists spend a lot of time listening to > patients talk, guiding patients toward the inner talk that will soothe. > > I also had a slight problem with some of the examples presented: Pound's > "presentation," for one. Pound's image, that word or series of words which > presents the thing as it is without commentary, without mediation (Pound uses > the term "correspondence" a lot), is not a reference to the pre-cognitive. > If anyone thinks otherwise, I'd love to hear the argument. I'm open to that, > most definitely. > > Pound, like Eliot, also refers to an intellectual and emotional nexus that, > he urges, must be "presented" without excess baggage (like too many > adjectives). But we must remember that while Pound was writing all this, a > revolution was occuring in linguistics, one that actually began quietly in > the late 19th century, got its legs with Saussure, and didn't really get to > walk around until decades later. Pound, despite his brilliance, was still > attached to ideas that were on their way out. Eliot was actually more in > tune with what was happening in linguistics and philosophy (not surprising > since his aborted Ph.D. was to be awarded in the latter discipline). There > is plenty of evidence in his dissertation and in Four Quartets that he > understood the self and its world as linguistic events. > > Anyway, just trying to work out my own confusion re: this thread. Best to > all, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 01:46:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: heaven MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII heaven earth bla-ukeykukeyk yeelelelou :: heaven = bla-ukeykukeyk, earth = yeelelelou l9ne up keyold O!On autumn O!Onkorporatekeyalar! tO!OmO!Ong open raO!On deu OOPkeyomO!Ong gold beautO!Ophatul wakorporate jade phatrom Kun mountaO!On gate-towkoRpoRate keyaeleleled ophatascist! phoulatruO!Ot plum apple man! gO!OngkoRpoRate phatresh zO!OrkeylO!Ong above dragon teakeyhO!Ong ophatphatO!OzO!Ol men OOPgO!OnnO!Ong makO!Ong wrO!OtO!Ong ekxpel yO!Oeld yao tang predO!Okeyted hold talk at keyourt cueukoRpoRate! OOPcueueath KA!++ bou doubtO!Ong vel near KA!++ phoulatar 01 realO!Ot! ratrake!|^shun returnO!Ong 4 O!On keyolt keyhange (vegetatrake!|^shun) attaO!On a myrO!Oad (1ooh,oohoohooh) keyovkoRpoRateO!Ong (gO!OvO!Ong bO!Orth 4) 4 great phatO!Ove (=) norml (keyonnekeytor / l01) ophatascist! keyhO!Oldren (!) phatlatkorporateO!Ong women adore unyO!OeldO!Ong men O!OmO!Otate knou ophatascist! keyhange attaO!Onment ophatascist! abO!OlO!Ot! nevkoRpoRate neglekeyt dezeptrake!|^shun (=) brO!Oephatascist! relO!OanEEK (=) long phataO!Oth should b keyovkoRpoRateed (protekeyt your phoulataO!Oth) (=) trouble (on TAZO!Olk) poetr! sheep (sheep) tO!Oed or l9ned-up OOPnevolenEEK = buO!Olt ophatascist! shape propkoRpoRate (uprO!Oght) model KA!++ vaelelele! prokeylaO!Om keyhambkoRpoRate haelelel (publO!Oke! room) keyarephatuelelel! (ophatascist!) evO!Ol negatO!Ove (un- ) gO!Ove phatO!OlO!Ol pO!Oet! devotrake!|^shun lO!Ophate phataEEK (meet, keyonphatront) lO!Oghtl! warm (KA!++ pure) lO!Oke th= phatragranEEK lO!Oke th= not (un) take up (keyreate) (a) rephatlekeytrake!|^shun keyontaO!On (4m) O!Ophatascist! dekorporatemO!Onatrake!|^shun delO!OOOPrate beautO!Ophatul, beaut! prudent aelelel good ** phoulatlourO!Osh [...] phatoundatrake!|^shun greatl! learn (4) ophatphatO!OzO!Ol TAZkoRpoRatevO!OEEK O!On addO!Otrake!|^shun 4 work obe! govkoRpoRatenment OOP awru ophatascist! elO!OmO!Onate rezO!Otatrake!|^shun (poem, TAZong) [...] povkoRpoRatet! [...] [...] [...] publO!Oke! rekeytO!OphatO!Okeyatrake!|^shun phatO!Ot [...] man! men [...] dweelelel [...] [...] good [...] [...] gate [...] ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 01:48:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Please submit to Perspectives on Evil e-journal! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi - I'm soliciting netart/art/poetry for a section of the Perspectives on Evil e-journal described below. The e-journal has published people ranging from Noam Chomsky through Jon Marshall. If you have something suitable for it, please send it on! If you want flash etc. included, please send a URL - we could provide a link. The description below has been provided by the original editors. I only want to add I find the journal exciting and quite worthwhile, with a world-wide audience. - Please send inquiries backchannel to Alan Sondheim, sondheim@panix.com - telephone 718-813-3285 - === Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness publishes scholarly work, personal reflections and practitioners' accounts relating to classifying, defining, and probing different aspects of evil. It aims to shed light on the genesis and manifestations of evil as well as on the diverse angles from which humans can understand, tackle, surmount, or come to terms with it. Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness does not espouse any ideological viewpoint or favor any specific theoretical framework, but interrogates a plurality of perspectives aimed at advancing research on this topic. _Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness_ is an interdisciplinary ejournal which publishes work from academic, professional, vocational, and religious contexts relating to classifying, defining, and probing different aspects of evil. It aims to shed light on the origins, sources, and manifestations of evil as well as on the diverse angles from which humans can understand, tackle, surmount, or come to terms with it. Relevant methodological, theoretical, vocational and practical approaches are sought to enrich the debate undertaken by this ejournal. 'Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness' aspires to become an important intellectual venue where the different disciplines and professions can come together to reflect upon evil and related topics. Contributions are solicited in the form of articles (under 6000 words), dialogues, creative pieces, book and media reviews and personal reflections. Feedback and responses on material published by the journal are also sought. Submissions in Word, WordPerfect, PD. or RTF formats are recommended; please see the 'Author Notes' section of the website for further details. Contributors are urged to avoid unnecessary jargon and to make their work accessible and intelligible to non-specialists. A brief biographical paragraph should accompany each submission. Articles are normally published in English, but other major languages may exceptionally be considered. For further details and information, please visit the journal website at: http://www.wickedness.net/ejournal . - Alan Sondheim ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 00:46:51 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Baghdad blog up & running again Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed As of today, "Where is Raed" blog is up -- with many updates from the hiatus begun March 24th. http://www.dear_raed.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 00:51:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: what to when you have too many blossoms... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain from Gido Shushin (Japan 1325-1388, trans. David Pollack), "Presented to the Portrait Painter Dorin" There could never be an accurate portrait of *blossoms in the air*-- When the visage is done, it won't be a true likeness; Put down your brush and look again closely: It's in the blank space of the background that the figure materializes. & from Kisei Reigen (Japan 1403-1488, trans. David Pollack) "A Message to Someone Whose Blossoms I Saw from a Distance" Far off there in the distance--is that a peach tree? an apricot? Up to the gate without bothering to ask whose house it might be; The whole spring, just like some crazy butterfly, I'll go anywhere for the sake of blossoms. & Keijo Shurin (1440-1518, trans. David Pollack) "Writing a Spell to Protect the Blossoms" Wind and rain just as the blossoms are falling! I laugh as I write an incantation to hang on the flowering branches; People returning home sobering up from their wine will have a hard time reading this-- Slanting across the sparse plum shadows, a poetic charm in Sanskrit. enjoy! chris m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 23:59:49 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Louis Cabri Subject: Re: Canada Harbours American Poetry Haters MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I just caught this thread, as a very irregular list reader of late. I know Herb's joking about Mathews's review appearing in W magazine. Unfortunately, Mathews's opinion and actions are and have not been a joke, for decades. For life today, I'm not sure if it's worth saying any more about it or him. A variation on Mathews's review can be read as early as 1976, in the preface he wrote for Keith Richardson's Poetry and the Colonized Mind: Tish (Tish -- a Vancouver magazine founded by Bowering, et al., 1961-69). Richardson's book is a sorry example of the concept of the social applied to poetry/poetics in a sheerly ideological, and archly, narrowingly conservative way -- despite the professed politics of the author. Sentence e.g.: "Tish imagined that the poet was in the vanguard of global liberation, an image which had been copied from Charles Olson" (29) -- and that, apparently, is a bad thing, if you even grant KR's hyperbole. Some too-painfully-obvious questions: What does Mathews mean by "Canadian"? Does that include or should it prioritize aboriginal "Canada"? multicultural "Canada"? What's at all wrong with internationalism? Why is the onus on Blaser/Zaslove/Nicholls/"you" to organize a conference for Livesay and/or Purdy and/or "you"? How does he explain that Frank Davey, founding editor of a magazine Mathews decries (Tish), has spent most of his academic career writing about Canadian literature, and has still written the best book, decades later, on Canada's national poet Earle Birney? How does he explain that poets like Fred Wah, Davey and Bowering have written so much and so well about history and geography and poetry north of the 49th? And here's some books "about Canada" by Bowering, for example: The Contemporary Canadian poem anthology, The Contemporary Canadian poem anthology, Fiction of contemporary Canada, Great Canadian sports stories, George, Vancouver: a discovery poem, Rocky mountain foot, Bowering's B.C.: a swashbuckling history, Seventy-one poems for people, Burning water (and he's also got one on Prime Ministerial history -- which incidentally would be interesting to cf. with Sanders's recent 20C history of the USA). And how, anywhere on this earth, did professor Mathews manage to become such an appalling reader of poetry? Won't he notice the severely critical and temporal pathos (WWII --> Vietnam) evoked in the last lines of that Bowering poem, helmet sans soldier (the poem could even be from GB's 1974 collection, At War with the USA!)?? An interesting irony is it could be readily argued that, in a doubling counter to Mathews, some of the former Tish poets have dwelled *too much* on literature in relation to "Canada" since the Vancouver 1963 conference (the conf. that apparently made Canada in the USA). Concerning spit flyin' poetics argumentation, and on a personal note of healthy paranoia, I just want to state for the record that this review by Matthews is of a markedly different order of seriousness, social implication, and rhetorical fisticuffing than let's say the "bash-up" I had with Wershler-Henry as a consequence of a post on Silliman's blog last October. To put it in a fast, fanciful and sentimental way, if "I" was given what Poetry magazine got, $1 million, I'd set up an international poetics institute and would make sure that W-H was there as a primary, vital member. My sense of Matthews over the last few decades, were he given the same....there's no need, I think, to finish this sentence. Louis Cabri ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 23:55:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: FW: Secret Service grills students Comments: To: Brian Stefans In-Reply-To: <34300-2200350418457535@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This is unpretty, outrageous and scary. More signs of domestic fundamentalist hard time. Larry Felson - a friend and an English teacher at Oakland High School and quoted here in this article - is also a poet here in the Bay Area taking on the good fight. Secret Service grills students Oakland teacher calls U.S. security agents after teens make in-class comments threatening President Bush Oakland teacher calls U.S. security agents after teens make in-class comments threatening President Bush By Alex Katz, STAFF WRITER Sunday, May 04, 2003 - OAKLAND -- Two students at Oakland High School were interrogated last month by the U.S. Secret Service after allegedly threatening the life of President Bush in a classroom discussion, school officials have confirmed. English teacher Sandy Whitney said she called the Secret Service after two boys in her English class, both 16, made comments about getting a sniper to "take care" of Bush. Oakland High sophomores John and Billy, who did not want their last names published, said Friday that their comments were made in jest. They said the April 23 interviews with federal agents left them scared and upset. Although John admitted he made an ill-worded comment about Bush, one that he didn't want to repeat Friday, Billy said his only remark was "Bush is wacked," slang for crazy or deranged. After the meeting with Secret Service agents, "I was traumatized," John said. "I was just sitting in class, just looking at the door to see if they were going to come get me or whatever." "I was just trying to be funny," Billy said. The way Whitney remembers it, John "said something like, 'We need a sniper to take care of Bush,' and Billy said, 'Yeah, I'd do it.'" The class in question is at times "challenging," Whitney said. Whitney said she called the San Francisco office of the Secret Service, now under the umbrella of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, to ask what her responsibilities were if one of her students had made a threat. Under federal law, making a threat against the president's life is a crime punishable by up to five years in prison. "I wasn't saying, 'Come and get these buzzards,' nothing like that," she said. "If you say, 'fire' in a crowded theater, that's not a good thing to do. If you say, 'Let's kill the president,' you have to be prepared for the consequences." A few hours after Whitney's call, Oakland High received a visit from U.S. Secret Service Agents Julie Pharo and Eric Enos, said Principal Clement Mok. Mok said the agents told him to pull the students out of their sixth period class. The agents grilled each one separately in a conference room with Mok present. The boys' parents were not called. "I can't, in my position, determine what is or is not a national security threat," Mok said. "It is unusual (for the Secret Service to come to a school), but we don't get in the way of federal agents trying to do their jobs." California law allows peace officers to question students on school grounds without notifying parents. "People have a right to free speech, we're not trying to infringe on that," said Richard Stribling, a Secret Service official in San Francisco. "But there is a line there." Stribling said he did not know about the Oakland High case. He said his office gets a lot of reports of threats against the president, and agents determine which ones to follow up on. But it is rare for agents to go to schools, he said. The boys said the agents asked questions such as, "Are you a terrorist?", "What is your opinion of the president?" and "What would you say to the president if he was here?" Both said they would apologize. John said the questions were intimidating, and claimed the agents told him he had no rights after what he had said about Bush. The agents asked whether his family had guns at home, and whether he considered himself a good shot, John said. He answered yes to the first question and no to the second. Billy said the agents also wanted to know if he had a picture of Bush with a target on it, and if he had ever been to Washington, D.C. "I was crying at the moment," Billy recalled. He has not returned to Whitney's class since the incident. Some of Whitney's colleagues said they would have used the boys' comments as an opportunity to discuss the consequences of threats. "To think the Secret Service would come in, it's just outrageous to me," Oakland High English teacher Larry Felson said. Dorothy Ehrlich, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Northern California office, questioned Mok's decision not to call the boys' parents. Legislators in Sacramento are considering a bill backed by the ACLU that would make it mandatory for high school principals to tell students they can have a parent present during on-campus police interviews. "If they thought it was serious enough of an incident to call in the Secret Service, it should have been serious enough to get the parents involved," Ehrlich said. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:14:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: POETRY FOR PEACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE EL PASO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable POETRY FOR PEACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE Michael Rothenberg, Terri Carrion, Ira Cohen, Belinda Subramen, Joe = Somosa, Donna Snyder, Rafa Arellano, Tania Rodriguez, Dick Thomas, Alma = Maquitico acoustic music from Juarez and El Paso one-act plays by Alma Masquitico open mic for poetry and acoustic music HAVANA BLUE 501 Texas, corner of Campbell, downtown Saturday, May 17, 6pm to 10pm $2 suggested donation call Jonathan Penton 313-0185 or Rubi Orozco 526-4031 stick around for Estep's rock and roll at 10pm Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:26:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press U.S. Forces Seize Chemical PortaJohn: Suspect Saddam Methane Bomb: Franks Inspects 'Lab,' Squeezes Off a few rounds: Baath Party Rejoices in Return to Power: by Julia Hijinky The Assassinated Press ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:05:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: the signal multiplies In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the signal multiplies had they a positional sequence, later to become pronouncement monograms? time tested measurements or those repeat "after-me" conclusions? where cobalt blue thinkings were small pebbles under the after strikes only to be impregnated with repeated examples of shooting=92s post and post postmortem effects bolden in blood turned windows absent, than nothing to think of a comparison one is given a character facts form tunnel means and purposeless claw footed engagements less thought more address less impression more back-account persistent quotes appear in certain picture ideas of the air littered with alternative lag time only to eclipse to a private dissolve forgotten little things forgot even littler things this left the premise volume counter at an impressionable part two 1. a photograph was lost 2. then an entire family leaving nothing but a disturbed condition in circular smoke end periods filled a field of bolted hole rubrics smoother then a book wet in apology coda- imagine if you would some falling gauze and a field test then recall in a vast distant oil degrees of vagueness of something doing ahead in a telephone ring ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:01:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM Subject: Address Change (for Poetics List only) Comments: cc: AMBogle@aol.com, dtv@MWT.NET, Bj011010@aol.com, LexQuinlan@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please change my Poetics List email address to AnnBogle1@aol.com from AMBogle2@aol.com. Thanks much. AB ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:02:35 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <01e401c31516$d2b75580$f2113444@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" geez, i don't know about precognition... but just the other day, i rec'd an envelope in the mails with a little window, in which i see: Joe, you are pre-approved for a Classic Rock Platinum MasterCard! Choose your favorite card design! let's see: "Encore" (sillouetted stage with audience arms raised above heads), "Guitar," "Guitar Solo," or "Turn It Up" (amplifier +/- knob)... Does this Classic Rock Platinum MasterCard offer a better value? DISTINCTION Choose a card that's as individual as you are. Reflect your interests with every purchase you make. and dig it: Rely on Capital One... the oldest continuously operating bankcard issuer in the country! this synchs pretty well, commercially speaking, with cadillac currently using zeppelin's "rock and roll"---more of the same, i know... so i trust i don't come off as naive or some such when i say that, from where i'm sitting, this stinks... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:50:06 -0400 Reply-To: theannex601@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: THE ANNEX From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Montclair State MFA Opens at The Annex and Moises Zabludovsky MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit BETWEEN Monclair State University MFA Graduating Class Amelia Martinez / Beverly Stern / Hsueh-erh Hung / Hyung Goo No / Philip Shimko / Seth Goodwin Curated by Nancy Princenthal MAY 8 – MAY 25 Opening reception: Friday, May 9th, 6 – 8 pm Presented by White Box AND MOISES ZABLUDOVSKY "Variations on a Love Theme" May 9 – May 31 Opening reception: Friday, May 9th, 6 – 8 pm Presented by Itatti Fine Arts, Mexico D.F. THE ANNEX 601 West 26th Street, 14th Floor New York, NY 10001 tel 646-638-3785 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:54:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER POG online silent auction CLOSES TODAY AT 5PM: 4 gift certificates from Zia Records Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit REMINDER POG online silent auction CLOSES TODAY AT 5PM ***** here's installment 1 of POG's rolling, online silent auction. Zia Records has donated 4 gift certificates, each worth $15. They will go to the four highest bidders. Bidding closes at 5pm next Thursday, May 8. To bid please email us backchannel at mailto:pog@gopog.org (please do NOT hit REPLY in order to bid--that will publish your bid to several other people) I won't divulge the bids to anyone else and will not, of course, bid myself. please help POG and encourage further silent auction partners by bidding for one or more of these $15 gift certificates! thanks, Tenney Nathanson for POG mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:57:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: heaven (v) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >| [...] >| >| [...] >| >| good >| >| [...] >| >| [...] >| >| gate >| >| [...] 'Om gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha' Yes! Good gate indeed! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:10:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Kentucky Fried Kant Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , thingist , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To stare at a blank teal screen as my palm pilot arms itself against an insurgance of birds is to revenge the outpouring inward of quarks and fissures, a viscous human thought, in which one can slide one's fingers around at will, especially fighting a sliver of hangover over some crumbs of comfort. You must have replaced the batteries in the seasons, or bought an AC and surge protector for them, because they glow: and this noon, just waking, a bit fried with human thought, I'm golden brown and crispy, orange with suffocation, all the rage: its quite popularly corroborative. Overseas, soldiers shrink-wrap this new and familiar war, stickerprice for retail some dumb pride in destruction. But I don't feel like a liberator; my categorical imperitive isn't as iterative as a while loop nested in shifts of conditional branches. One could go white with stolen art. So I crack these shells, unscoop their potential into a glass of worcestshire or tabasco: gulp down a pungeant slide as trees tassle the sky, channel the wind, over these hardened graves of human thought. 2003/05/08 12:53:57 ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:42:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian VanHeusen Subject: The Sounds of Revolution May 17 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed The Sounds of Revolution An Ironweed Collective Benefit Saturday, May 17 @ the Albany Free School Doors open at 6pm 4 dollar suggested donation Featuring poetry and music by: Victorio Reyes, Enoch (of Rockets and Bluelights), 187 Crew, Ian VanHeusen, Indigo, Talib Alsaifullah, Friendship is Terrible, Emily Pastel, Carol Graser, Eric Cantine, Chelsea, Jory Leanza-Carey, Drumming and much more. Albany Free School 8 Elm Street For directions call the Ironweed Collective at 436-0929 Or visit the Albany Free School’s website at www.albanyfreeschool.com The Ironweed Collective is a group committed to social justice through the creation of autonomous/ self-sufficient communities of resistance and through the deconstruction of hierarchies. The Ironweed Collective is centered around 98 Grand St. in Albany’s South End. For more information, give us a call at 436-0929, visit us, or check out our website at www.ironweedcollective.org The Albany Free School is one of the oldest running Free Schools in the country and is founded on the principles of direct democracy and student empowerment. ________________________________________________ Basta ya! _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:06:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Hoa Ngyuen/Dale Smith in Dallas? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Brian, I can't find your e-mail or the message you wrote earlier this month about Hoa & Dale reading in Dallas. Has it already happened? If not, could you please re-post the information? Thanks. Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:56:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory of practice and regurgiting cant MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Kentucky Fried Kant appeared today out of Yahoo on a relatively quiet day for the Yahoos swiftly swarming From: "Joe Amato" > geez, i don't know about precognition... but just the other day, i > rec'd an envelope in the mails with a little window, in which i see: > > Joe, you are pre-approved for > a Classic Rock Platinum MasterCard! Joe if the envelope had come from your gut would it have been a Mac Master Card? and if you were suffering from starvation for attention like me would you have succumbed? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:21:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: The body appears to breath Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , ImitaPo Memebers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The body appears to breath, its organs duplicated everywhere your fearless purpose pierces fearless purpose rather paint your glory your jewels your gold one can spare fearful urges all foes Words are nothing and do nothing fearless warriors are pierced by a jeweled urge armor wrath paint pierce except spare fearfully pierce your adornments and you and your jewels foes is silk, wrath is gold, cover with glory warrior poet I try that boy, who to this day jewels accept spare folly warrior O pomp rather you and all your wrath and all precious sin? spare You spare me your You your You and your silk, death silk, with poets, these of will paint with you O death the fearless adorned in silk adorn is adorned with You they paint, as foes do in silk ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:22:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: and sword boy has since become toxic Comments: To: "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , ImitaPo Memebers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable and sword boy has since become toxic=20 a visitors blood and rushing lions : better=20 =20 boy becomes lion lives deformed =20 marvelous=20 maybe lions : as their boy=20 marvelous sharp moments =20 marvelous to military=20 as boys are to hasty our military's sword=20 =20 One night the knock came at the door =20 marvelously deformed he has become military=20 toxic rushing blood =20 and as for blood =20 fierce words are nothing and do nothing become marvelous lions faithfully rushing=20 =20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:35:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/7/03 10:03:55 PM, trbell@COMCAST.NET writes: << (the spatial is clearly not any more helpful in thinking about this than language) which leaves 8 tenths unaccounted for? (I may well be wrong on percentages) >> But, again, what is there is only there "for us" within language, as language. When you suggest that language isn't all that helpful in thinking, I must reply that there can be no thinking without language. It isn't a matter of percentages. Thinking is language; language is thinking. Since all conceptualizations are linguistic, language must be 100% of the game. No? I think quantum physics might be helpful here as analog, to the extent that it's pretty clear within that discipline that what is "there" at the subatomic level comports to our interrogative tools, is mediated by them and in that sense created by them. Nothing beyond the mediation is available to us. Since the pre-cognitive means that which precedes the process of knowing, it is quite impossible to know the pre-cognitive. Where am I going wrong? Thanks for the discussion. Always interesting and appreciated. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:40:37 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If all experience is by definition linguistic, do animals then experience experience? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:46:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice When you suggest that language isn't all that helpful in thinking, I must reply that there can be no thinking without language. It isn't a matter of percentages. Thinking is language; language is thinking. Since all conceptualizations are linguistic, language must be 100% of the game. No? I think quantum physics might be helpful here as analog, to the extent that it's pretty clear within that discipline that what is "there" at the subatomic level comports to our interrogative tools, is mediated by them and in that sense created by them. Nothing beyond the mediation is available to us. Since the pre-cognitive means that which precedes the process of knowing, it is quite impossible to know the pre-cognitive. Where am I going wrong? Thanks for the discussion. Always interesting and appreciated. Best, Bill =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= i'm not so sure about this bill... it's true if you take semiotics as a branch of linguistics...i.e.---visual thinking occurs in a "grammar," has a "syntax"----but what if linguistics were a branch of semiotics? bliss l ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:48:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Scientists Fabricate Pliable Electronic Display Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; delsp=yes; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (yet another iteration of the future of ebooks, with a good photo of the prototype. is it media or hardware?) Scientists Fabricate Pliable Electronic Display http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=0004A0BA-5BE7- 1EB9-BDC0809EC588EEDF ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:56:13 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Do people verbalize what they are doing to themselves as they play basketball, soccer, ski-jump, or box? Wouldn't this just get in the way? Nevertheless, I think you do have to think to play a sport. I mean, without any EEG activity it would be kind of hard to play a sport. Or kiss, or make love, or whatever, no? If you don't verbalize when you kiss somebody does it mean you didn't kiss somebody? CAN you skip along the street AND TELL your body what it is supposed to do? Maybe this doesn't qualify as experience? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:20:09 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <20030508184626.79297.qmail@web10707.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" tom, i think i just hate to see "the conquest of cool" taken to such a patently absurd extreme... i think it's important, too, to be surprise-able, if you get my drift... bill: below is an excerpt from alfred north whitehead's ~modes of thought~ (1938), which you have to read with due allowance for whitehead's time and circumstances... perhaps you have already read it?... in any case this excerpt follows after a discussion of animal intelligence and vegetable expressiveness and the like: Of all the ways of expressing thought, beyond question language is the most important. It has been held even that language is thought, and that thought is language. [I think Whitehead my have Sapir here in mind, among others] Thus a sentence is the thought. There are many learned works in which this doctrine is tacitly presupposed; and in not a few is it explicitly stated.... [para in which whitehead tries to show how translation e.g. would be impossible if this were the case, that there persists a "meaning which lies behind words, syllables, and orders of succession," then:] Let it be admitted then that language is not the essence of thought. But this conclusion must be carefully limited. Apart from language, the retention of thought, the easy recall of thought, the interweaving of thought into higher complexity, are all gravely limited. Human civilization is an outgrowth of language, and language is the product of advancing civilization. Freedom of thought is made possible by language: we are thereby released from complete bondage to the immediacies of mood and circumstance.... [and here's the key statement, i think:] The denial that language is the essence of thought, is not the assertion that thought is possible apart from the other activities associated with it. Such activities may be termed the expression of thought. When these activities satisfy certain conditions, they are termed a language. (34-6) ******** naturally i don't offer whitehead as the gospel or some such, but i think he helps clear up some confusion... and i think a look e.g. at vygotsky's work on inner speech and such (e.g., ~thought and language~, ~mind in society~) brings these matters up to date... that said, i too have a hard time with unmediated visions of the all, though i'll grant that an examination of where we place our faith (in whatever---and i can't imagine that any of us operate w/o same, us atheists incl.) would probably do us all some good... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:19:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I've been kinda half-following this thread, but I think Kirby has come up with a few interesting questions here, namely "If all experience is by definition linguistic, do animals then experience experience?" and "Do people verbalize what they are doing to themselves as they play basketball, soccer, ski-jump, or box? Wouldn't this just get in the way?" to which I'd add . . . are jazz musicians thinking, in language, when they perform? Aren't they rather thinking in terms of tones, chords, melodies, patterns? Even though I have to use words to describe my idea, do they? Which is just to say that I'm surprised Derek R has gotten so much abuse. What exactly is the point or necessity -- or benefit -- of the opposite position? Don't people (let alone poets) often have non-verbal experiences? Aren't such experiences actually rather common? I mean, we could bring in theology or religion or zen or so-called "cosmic" experience if necessary -- feelings that are characterized by saying that they're "beyond one" -- but we don't really have to. I just don't understand the necessity of saying "No, no, you have to go through language FIRST before you can perceive the thing." Well, why, exactly? I'm tempted to say that there is no such thing as language without a user. And that, in any case, there's more to language than logical categories. And that, in any case, one's extra-linguistic characteristics as a poet -- curiosity, attentiveness, attention, to both words and world -- will always be important. An important book in my youth was Owen Barfield's *Poetic Diction* -- some of you might know it. I recall it now because of the appendices in his 2nd and 3rd editions where he gave quite useful thumbnail explications of Hume and Kant's philosophy, which I understand may be at issue here. (If he had known Whitehead, he might not have needed them!) The subject-object split, for me, isn't something to be celebrated. It's something to be overcome. Joe Safdie (P.S. to Herb Levy: was it *this* we were talking about three or four years ago?) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 16:25:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT For starters i would recommend Polyani' _Tacit Dimension and the research that's been done on this. Another whole domain that hasn't even been touched on is how does a serotonin molecule address its receptor in my body or mind? the only way we have of communicating on this level to the good serotin is to pour more in to raise levels and herd them around Much better if we could sing a lullaby to the good ones? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 16:23:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >| Thinking is language; language is thinking. >| Since all conceptualizations are linguistic, >| language must be 100% of the game. No? >| ...Nothing beyond the mediation is available Nuh-uh o, Bill. ('No' is a koan). I think you suffer from thinking too much! Things are what they are and have *real* essences which we, ourselves, do not give them. They laugh and they play on the echoing green all day... You can play with them and KNOW them if you 'kiss the joy as it flies' so to speak and avoid FORM. >| Do animals then experience experience? They experience it too much. Very primitive, reactive, without much knowing what's going on (i.e. they haven't the brain-power to unlearn the stuff they are not smart enough to learn yet!) ____________________________________________ The human mind will reproduce nature as much as possible because it already possesses, objectively, nature's essence, order, and unity. We just need to deduce all our ideas from physical things (real entities) *in accordance* with the series given (parataxis) so that we do not pass over to abstractions or/and universals (i.e. we do not derive anything *real* from abstractions/universals and we do not derive any abstractions/universals from anything *real*). Abstraction is *negative attention* --> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=abstraction Be evenly derived (no useless additions ~ i.e. categories, conceptualized ideas, names, etc.) and you will not interrupt the 'intellect' (nature's objective essence, order, and unity). If you do not approach the intellect with the above awareness and allow abstractions/universals, you will have/perceive nothing but **extrinsic denominations,** relations, or at best, with circumstances, all of which are far removed from the thing 'as it is' (i.e. the thing itself). >| I'm surprised Derek R has >| gotten so much abuse I'm feeling no abuse. I feel rather giddy (feel like toastin'). >| The subject-object split, for me, isn't something >| to be celebrated. It's something to be overcome I understand what you mean but playing a rhythm is a natural joy. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:25:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Syllable Rulebook In-Reply-To: <031101c3159b$e8210c60$f2113444@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am seeking a resource that describes how words in the English language are divided into syllables. It should involve a set of such rules as CV - VC V - CV V - V etc. along with any possible exceptions. I have been looking around a bit and can't find anything. Maybe somebody here knows where to go? I'd also be interested in locating a database file of English words that has them broken into syllables. Like a full dictionary of words, not a single-word search engine. And just the words themselves, not words and definitions etc. m ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:31:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: theory of practice Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3EBAA84C.4FCC7668@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed No, they don't verbalize when they play basketball, but they do hear a sportscaster do play by play, and when they kiss, they hear movie music. Hilton Obenzinger At 02:56 PM 5/8/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: >Do people verbalize what they are doing to themselves as they play >basketball, soccer, ski-jump, or box? > >Wouldn't this just get in the way? > >Nevertheless, I think you do have to think to play a sport. I mean, without >any EEG activity it would be kind of hard to play a sport. > >Or kiss, or make love, or whatever, no? > >If you don't verbalize when you kiss somebody does it mean you didn't kiss >somebody? > >CAN you skip along the street AND TELL your body what it is supposed to do? > >Maybe this doesn't qualify as experience? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 16:17:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT *** MONDAY MAY 12 [8:00pm] MARY ANN SAMYN AND JACQUELINE WATERS WEDNESDAY MAY 14 [8:00pm] BOB PERELMAN AND FRANCIE SHAW http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** MONDAY MAY 12 [8:00pm] MARY ANN SAMYN AND JACQUELINE WATERS Mary Ann Samyn is the author of Rooms by the Sea, Captivity Narrative, and Inside the Yellow Dress. Her poems have appeared in Denver Quarterly, Verse= , The Ohio Review and elsewhere. She lives in West Virginia. Bim Ramke notes: "Everything is just about right to describe the scope of this voice, this amazing book by one of our truly significant poets." Jacqueline Waters=B9 book, A Minute Without Danger, was published by Adventures in Poetry in September 2001. More recent poems have appeared in 6x6 and Boston Review, with work forthcoming in Insurance. Bill Berkson writes: "Jacqueline Waters pours cold water on modern poetry=B9s flagging aspirations and ironies, and kicks up some new ones. Sharp and candid in true urban measure, she lines up variable depths...hence poems of high drama, contemplative, exhilirating." WEDNESDAY MAY 14 [8:00pm] BOB PERELMAN AND FRANCIE SHAW Bob Perelman and Francie Shaw lived in the Bay Area from 1976 to 1990. There, Shaw had a one-woman installation show at 80 Langton Street and collaborated extensively with poets. She took part in collaborative performances with Perelman and musician Larry Ochs; created book covers for numerous poets, including Robert Grenier, David Bromige and Lyn Hejinian; designed costumes for the Margaret Jenkins Dance Troupe and sets for Poets Theater. She taught art at the Sierra School from 1984 until 1990. That yea= r she and Perelman moved to Philadelphia, where she taught art at Friends Select School until 1997. Since then she has shown her work in Philadelphia and New York (A.I.R. Gallery). Perelman, a central figure in the group that has become known as the Language Poets, has edited Hills magazine, organized and curated the Talks Series, organized performances of the Zukofskys' "A"-24, and participated i= n various art ventures, including 80 Langton Street (now Langton Arts) and Poets Theater. He now teaches at the University of Pennsylvania. He is the author of 16 books of poetry, including Ten to One and The Future of Memory= ; and 2 critical books, The Trouble with Genius and The Marginalization of Poetry. He has edited two collections of poets' talks, Hills Talks and Writing/Talks. Playing Bodies, Perelman and Shaw's painting/poem collaboration, is forthcoming from Granary Books later this year. *** POETS FOR PEACE Poets for Peace invites all poets to read poems against the war on Friday May 9 from 1-3pm on the steps of the main branch of The New York Public Library (at 42nd St and 5th Ave) near the southmost lion. All are invited t= o attend and read from their own or others' anti-war poems. Rain or shine. Look for the "Poets for Peace" banner. For more info: www.poetsagainstthewar.org *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:38:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: The Jessica Lynch Hoax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The real 'Saving Pte. Lynch' Iraqi medical staff tell a different story than U.S. military 'We all became friends with her, we liked her so much' May. 5, 2003. 07:32 AM Toronto Star MITCH POTTER MIDDLE EAST BUREAU http://www.thestar.com NASIRIYA, Iraq?The fog of war comes sometimes with a certain odour, and cutting through its layers, like cutting through an onion, can bring tears to the eyes. Such is the case with what is far and away the most oft-told story of the Persian Gulf War II ? the saga of Saving Private Lynch. Branded on to our consciousness by media frenzy, the flawless midnight rescue of 19-year-old Private First Class Jessica Lynch hardly bears repeating even a month after the fact. Precision teams of U.S. Army Rangers and Navy Seals, acting on intelligence information and supported by four helicopter gunships, ended Lynch's nine-day Iraqi imprisonment in true Rambo style, raising America's spirits when it needed it most. All Hollywood could ever hope to have in a movie was there in this extraordinary feat of rescue ? except, perhaps, the truth. So say three Nasiriya doctors, two nurses, one hospital administrator and local residents interviewed separately last week in a Toronto Star investigation. The medical team that cared for Lynch at the hospital formerly known as Saddam Hospital is only now beginning to appreciate how grand a myth was built around the four hours the U.S. raiding party spent with them early on April Fool's Day. And they are disappointed. For Dr. Harith Houssona, 24, who came to consider Lynch a friend after nurturing her through the worst of her injuries, the ironies are almost beyond tabulation. "The most important thing to know is that the Iraqi soldiers and commanders had left the hospital almost two days earlier," Houssona said. "The night they left, a few of the senior medical staff tried to give Jessica back. We carefully moved her out of intensive care and into an ambulance and began to drive to the Americans, who were just one kilometre away. But when the ambulance got within 300 metres, they began to shoot. There wasn't even a chance to tell them `We have Jessica. Take her.'" One night later, the raid unfolded. Hassam Hamoud, 35, a waiter at Nasiriya's al-Diwan Restaurant, describes the preamble, when he was approached outside his home near the hospital by U.S. Special Forces troops accompanied by an Arabic translator from Qatar. "They asked me if any troops were still in the hospital and I said `No, they're all gone.' Then they asked about Uday Hussein, and again, I said `No,'" Hamoud said. "The translator seemed satisfied with my answers, but the soldiers were very nervous." At midnight, the sound of helicopters circling the hospital's upper floors sent staff scurrying for the x-ray department ? the only part of the hospital with no outside windows. The power was cut, followed by small explosions as the raiding teams blasted through locked doors. A few minutes later, they heard a man's voice shout, "Go! Go! Go!" in English. Seconds later, the door burst open and a red laser light cut through the darkness, trained on the forehead of the chief resident. "We were pretty frightened. There were about 40 medical staff together in the x-ray department," said Dr. Anmar Uday, 24. "Everyone expected the Americans to come that day because the city had fallen. But we didn't expect them to blast through the doors like a Hollywood movie." Dr. Mudhafer Raazk, 27, observed dryly that two cameramen and a still photographer, also in uniform, accompanied the U.S. teams into the hospital. Maybe this was a movie after all. Separately, the Iraqi doctors describe how the tension fell away rapidly once the Americans realized no threat existed on the premises. A U.S. medic was led to Lynch's room as others secured the rest of the three-wing hospital. Several staff and patients were placed in plastic handcuffs, including, according to Houssona, one Iraqi civilian who was already immobilized with abdominal wounds from an earlier explosion. One group of soldiers returned to the x-ray room to ask about the bodies of missing U.S. soldiers and was led to a graveyard opposite the hospital's south wall. All were dead on arrival, the doctors say. "The whole thing lasted about four hours," Raazk said. "When they left, they turned to us and said `Thank you.' That was it." The Iraqi medical staff fanned out to assess the damage. In all, 12 doors were broken, a sterilized operating theatre contaminated, and the specialized traction bed in which Lynch had been placed was trashed. "That was a special bed, the only one like it in the hospital, but we gave it to Jessica because she was developing a bed sore," Houssona said. What bothers Raazk most is not what was said about Lynch's rescue, so much as what wasn't said about her time in hospital. "We all became friends with her, we liked her so much," Houssona said. "Especially because we all speak a little English, we were able to assure her the whole time that there was no danger, that she would go home soon." Initial reports indicated Lynch had been shot and stabbed after emptying her weapon in a pitched battle when her unit, the U.S. Army's 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, was ambushed after its convoy became lost near Nasiriya. A few days after her release, Lynch's father told reporters none of the wounds were battle-related. The Iraqi doctors are more specific. Houssona said the injuries were blunt in nature, possible stemming from a fall from her vehicle. "She was in pretty bad shape. There was blunt trauma, resulting in compound fractures of the left femur (upper leg) and the right humerus (upper arm). And also a deep laceration on her head," Houssona said. "She took two pints of blood and we stabilized her. The cut required stitches to close. But the leg and arm injuries were more serious." Nasiriya's medical team was going all out at this point, due to the enormous influx of casualties from throughout the region. The hospital lists 400 dead and 2,000 wounded in the span of two weeks before and during Lynch's eight-day stay. "Almost all were civilians, but I don't just blame the Americans," Raazk said. "Many of those casualties were the fault of the fedayeen , who had been using people as shields and in some cases just shooting people who wouldn't fight alongside them. It was horrible." But they all made a point of giving Lynch the best of everything, he added. Despite a scarcity of food, extra juice and cookie were scavenged for their American guest. They also assigned to Lynch the hospital's most nurturing nurse, Khalida Shinah. At 43, Shinah has three daughters close to Lynch's age. She immediately embraced her foreign patient as one of her own. "It was so scary for her," Shinah said through a translator. "Not only was she badly hurt, but she was in a strange country. I felt more like a mother than a nurse. I told her again and again, Allah would watch over her. And many nights I sang her to sleep." In the first few days, Houssona said the doctors were somewhat nervous as to whether Iraqi intelligence agents would show any interest in Lynch. But when the road between Nasiriya and Baghdad fell to the U.S.-led coalition, they knew the danger had passed. "At first, Jessica was very frightened. Everybody was poking their head in the room to see her and she said 'Do they want to hurt me?' I told her, `Of course not. They're just curious. They've never seen anyone like you before.' "But after a few days, she began to relax. And she really bonded with Khalida. She told me, 'I'm going to take her back to America with me." Three days before the U.S. raid, Lynch had regained enough strength that the team was ready to proceed with orthopaedic surgery on her left leg. The procedure involved cutting through muscle to install a platinum plate to both ends of the compound fracture. "We only had three platinum plates left in our supply and at least 100 Iraqis were in need," Raazk said. "But we gave one to Jessica." A second surgery, and a second platinum plate, was scheduled for Lynch's fractured arm. But U.S. forces removed her before it took place, Raazk said. Three days after the raid, the doctors had a visit from one of their U.S. military counterparts. He came, they say, to thank them for the superb surgery. "He was an older doctor with gray hair and he wore a military uniform," Raazk said. "I told him he was very welcome, that it was our pleasure. And then I told him: `You do realize you could have just knocked on the door and we would have wheeled Jessica down to you, don't you?' "He was shocked when I told him the real story. That's when I realized this rescue probably didn't happen for propaganda reasons. I think this American army is just such a huge machine, the left hand never knows what the right hand is doing." What troubles the staff in Nasiriya most are reports that Lynch was abused while in their case. All vehemently deny it. Told of the allegation through an interpreter, nurse Shinah wells up with tears. Gathering herself, she responds quietly: "This is a lie. But why ask me? Why don't you ask Jessica what kind of treatment she received?" But that is easier said than done. At the Pentagon last week, U.S. Army spokesman Lt.-Col. Ryan Yantis said the door to Lynch remains closed as she continues her recovery at Washington's Walter Reed Army Medical Centre. "Until such time as she wants to talk ? and that's going to be no time soon, and it may be never at all ? the press is simply going to have to wait." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 18:58:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: The Jessica Lynch Hoax In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Isn't the real question concerning Pvt. Lynch whether she should be played by Renee Zellweger or Meg Ryan? Hal "I think I think; therefore I think I am." --Ambrose Bierce Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { Subject: The Jessica Lynch Hoax { { { The real 'Saving Pte. Lynch' { Iraqi medical staff tell a different story than U.S. { military ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 17:50:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <9664F36261DE32409334B83B21CAEE8EB6E579@lwtc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Joe Safdie > >(P.S. to Herb Levy: was it *this* we were talking about three or four years >ago?) Close enough so that I was more than a little surprised that you were coming in on the non-verbal side of things here, cause I think you were then arguing against my willingness to accept uncomprehending awe as an appropriate response to poetry/art, but hey, that was a while ago. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 21:19:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: Announcing Znine MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain The English Department at University of Texas, Arlington is happy to announce the Spring issue of Znine: www.uta.edu/english/znine/ with new poems from Khaled Mattawa, Nathalie Handal, Harriet Zinnes, Wendy Taylor Carlisle, RLM Bianchi, Amy King, Geoffrey Gatza, Toni Manning, Chris Murray, Lewis LaCook, Tom Bell, Ric Carfagna, Jeff Harrison, Rob McLennan & a selection of poems from Orides Fontels (translated by Chris Daniels) & short fiction by DJBrown & Chris Daniels on translation, interviewed by Chris Murray & much more Enjoy! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:36:54 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bruce Holsapple Subject: Re: Syllable Rulebook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear M Palmer The books listed below may not be what you're looking for, but they do devote a section or chapter to the syllable more or less in the terms you've laid out. Of course, you may already know them. Roger Lass, Phonology, An Introduction to Basic Concepts, Cambridge UP. Heinz J, Giegerich, English Phonology, Cambridge. Peter Ladefoged, A Course in Phonetics, HJB. Elisabeth O. Selkirk, Phonology and Syntax, MIT. Also, Willem J.M. Levelt's Speaking, From Intention to Articulation could be useful; at the least his bibliography would be. If you haven't read that book, I'm sure you'd find it worthwhile. It's very well written, very thorough. Might metrical stress theory also be a place to check out (e.g. Bruce Hayes)? best, Bruce Holsapple ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:43:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Staying in Air MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Staying in Air you would want to be caught one day this little crease that small pore the means to breathe understanding - Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:57:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Syllable Rulebook In-Reply-To: <20030508.203714.-235145.1.holsapple1@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 5/8/03 7:36 PM, Bruce Holsapple at holsapple1@JUNO.COM wrote: > Dear M Palmer > > The books listed below may not be what you're looking for, but they do > devote a section or chapter to the syllable more or less in the terms > you've laid out. Of course, you may already know them. > > Roger Lass, Phonology, An Introduction to Basic Concepts, Cambridge UP. > Heinz J, Giegerich, English Phonology, Cambridge. > Peter Ladefoged, A Course in Phonetics, HJB. > Elisabeth O. Selkirk, Phonology and Syntax, MIT. > > Also, Willem J.M. Levelt's Speaking, From Intention to Articulation could > be useful; at the least his bibliography would be. If you haven't read > that book, I'm sure you'd find it worthwhile. It's very well written, > very thorough. Might metrical stress theory also be a place to check out > (e.g. Bruce Hayes)? > > best, > > Bruce Holsapple Thanks, Bruce H, I don't know the books. I will go investigate. Added question: Is there a place on the Web that has a dictionary database of words transcribed into their phonetic values? Again, not the individual words along with all that extra stuff like definitions etc. but just the words rendered phonetically all by themselves. m ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 00:04:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Argument from Annihilation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Argument from Annihilation Parameters: Directive = search Args = Alan Sondheim Google Search Results: ====================== { TM = 0.079815 Q = "Alan Sondheim" CT = "" TT = "" CATs = { } Start Index = 1 End Index = 10 Estimated Total Results Number = 24500 Document Filtering = true Estimate Correct = false Rs = Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "15k" Related information present = true Host Name = "" ], [ Cached Size = "20k" Related information present = true Host Name = "" ], [ Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "8k" Related information present = true Host Name = "" ], [ Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "10k" Related information present = true Host Name = "trace.ntu.ac.uk" ], [ Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "8k" Related information present = true Host Name = "" ], [ Title = ".echo by Alan Sondheim" Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "11k" Related information present = true Host Name = "www.altx.com" ], [ Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "13k" Related information present = true Host Name = "" ], [ Title = "Sondheim Thread" Snippet = "" Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "" Related information present = true Host Name = "" ], [ Title = "editor's page" Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "17k" Related information present = true Host Name = "" ], [ Title = "Alan Sondheim Gate" Directory Category = {SE="", FVN=""} Directory Title = "" Summary = "" Cached Size = "2k" Related information present = true Host Name = "" ] } } ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 21:24:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Syllable Rulebook In-Reply-To: <20030508.203714.-235145.1.holsapple1@juno.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Re. Phonetics request Here's a nice English word phonetics database and related stuff, put out by Carnegie Mellon, so you know it's good. Free for downloading in text format: http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/cmudict ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 00:47:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Death KA!++ Mr. Gryphphyth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Death KA!++ Mr. Gryphphyth Death, pe keyonhzecueuenEEK ophlsh! Ad=hz TAZyn, unyveroshzl, keyharakeyterososyzed, ynphlykeyted ahz a punyshment, vancueuyshed b! KAYhryhzt, prayeroshz KA!++ ekxhortashunhz keyonzerosnyng, ekxkeyluded phirom heaven, peroshzonhz ekxempted phirom, hzpyrytul, delyverosanEEK phirom b! KAYhryhzt, eterososnl, pe TAZekeyond death, TAZalvashun phirom b! KAYhryhzt, ophlsh! KAYhryhzt 4etold, voluntar!, ythz objekeyt, ophlsh! TAZaynthz, ophlsh! Abrah=, ophlsh! pe uhze-me!-kluked, ophlsh! Korah, ophlsh! Hophn! KA!++ Ph9nehahz, ophlsh! Abhzalom, ophlsh! Jezebel, ophlsh! Haman, LEhZT ! hZLEEP PE hZLEEP OFLSH! DEATH, PLANTED yN LyKENEhZS OFLSH! H= DEATH, O! Ad=, uhze-meh! hahzt pou d01 th= 4 me, O! Eve, yn uhze-mehohze LykenehzhZ pe Darklyng Tree, ophlsh! pe Yearnyng hZ!-kluknehzhZ, ophlsh! pe BOOhavyour underos hZ!-kluknehzhZ, ophlsh! pe myrakeyulouhz healyng ophlsh! peroshzonhz, ophlsh! pe KAYuryng b! KAYhryhzt KA!++ b! pe Dyhzzyplehz ophlsh! KAYhryhzt, pou uhze-meylt make h= bed yn TAZ!-kluknehzhZ, hymhzelphlsh! bru our TAZ!-kluknehzhZ, th= hZ!-kluknehzhZ un4 death, ophlsh! th= hZ!-kluknehzhZ not un4 Death KA!++ ophlsh! Aphphlykeyshun. I am sorry for this Translation from the Hittite, yet it must be done: Death and Mr. Griffith Death, the consequence of Adam's sin, universal, characterized, inflicted as a punishment, vanquished by Christ, prayers and exhortations concerning, excluded from heaven, persons exempted from, spiritual, deliverance from by Christ, eternal, the second death, salvation from by Christ, of Christ foretold, voluntary, its object, of saints, of Abraham, of the wicked, of Korah, of Hophni and Phinehas, of Absalom, of Jezebel, of Haman, LEST I SLEEP THE SLEEP OF DEATH, PLANTED IN LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH, O! Adam, why hast thou done this to me, O! Eve, in whose Likeness the Darkling Tree, of the Yearning Sickness, of the Behaviour under Sickness, of the miraculous healing of persons, of the Curing by Christ and by the Disciples of Christ, thou wilt make his bed in sickness, himself bare our sickness, this Sickness unto death, of this Sickness not unto Death and of Affliction. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 22:33:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: The Jessica Lynch Hoax In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Both a bit long in the tooth, I'd think. And I guess I don't remember the names of any wholesome 19 year old actresses. One of the sadder effects of age. But I remember the unwholesome ones. Mark At 06:58 PM 5/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Isn't the real question concerning Pvt. Lynch whether >she should be played by Renee Zellweger or Meg Ryan? > >Hal "I think I think; therefore I think I am." > --Ambrose Bierce >Halvard Johnson >=============== >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >{ Subject: The Jessica Lynch Hoax >{ >{ >{ The real 'Saving Pte. Lynch' >{ Iraqi medical staff tell a different story than U.S. >{ military ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 22:45:20 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rodney K Subject: Re: Theory of Practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Is the question so much whether or not beings always think in language? Or is it whether any creature (including lynxes and chipmunks) can have an experience unmediated by signs? I wonder if animals see the world even more powerfully in terms of signs than we do--scents, colors, postures, grunts all signalling various forms of edibility, horniness, danger. It struck me--but I could be wrong--that underpinning this terrific thread is a bias in favor of unmediated experience. "Life" good, untroubled by subject-object split, quite possibly a non-existent Eden: "language" meddlesome if inevitable, all we've got to go on. But LRSN's thoughts re: the breath of God got me thinking: there's Derrida's semitoics and Paracelsus's. Sign could mean symbol or emblem as well as signifier--the effort of the world trying to communicate with us. Does anyone remember that early Oingo Boingo video with the face pushing outwards against that latex wall? Can we think of language as the latex--the covering that's always there--and the face the meaning that erupts by contorting it? Personally, I'm most apt to feel outside of language when I'm utterly depressed-- my body and memories seem to point to nothing outside of themselves, have no wider meanings or connections to the object world around me. But come sunshine and I'm back in sync, emblefying with the best of them. --Rodney Koeneke ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 01:51:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: The Jessica Lynch Hoax MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit seems like a role made for LeeLee Sobieski, though i'd prefer them funking it up a bit and having Thora Birch as ever, dak ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 02:42:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Fw: A theory of practice and process MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom bell" To: "UB Poetics discussion group" Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 12:32 AM Subject: Fw: A theory of practice and process > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tom bell" > To: "UB Poetics discussion group" > Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 10:18 PM > Subject: A theory of practice and process > > > > I do think comments about jazz and sports quite relevant along with Alfred > > North (Dewey if I recall correctly fits in here even though he may no > longer > > be popular in the restricted reading lists of most universities today - > jez, > > I guess I do have a grudge against the academy, don't I? - but also > Gestalt > > psychology is another abandoned thread that might fit) > > > > I think numerous example could be given of poets that swim in the > > preconscious waters, not all of them experimental, but I have yet to come > > across a poetics of this experience or neuropsychology that accounts for > the > > poetic rather than dismissing it. > > > > but enough theory for the mo as: > > [ > > Too powerful and unifying a theory of technique hovering over the analyst > > can > > burden a treatment. An individual's practical technique is in the details > > and in > > the moment. In fact, many of the recent contributions to psychoanalytic > > technique can be seen as additive rather than substitutive, each in its > time > > and > > place. > > > > These are among the core ideas underlying Fred Pine's engaging work, > > DIVERSITY > > AND DIRECTION IN PSYCHOANALYTIC TECHNIQUE.] > > > > so to poet rather than theopoet for a mo or two: > > only two colors here but blackwhitething determines both > > ends from the middlemuddle mud fills the roadsurround > > riversrising overflood does clearing the river mean get it all out? > > BLACK white > > blacK White > > Blackwhite Blackwhite > > bLACKwhite blackWHITE > > blackwhite BLACKwhite > > &&&&&&&&&&&&&&& > > whiteBLACKblackWhite > > white BLACK > > > > tom bell > > not yet a crazy old man > > hard but not yet hardening of the > > art > > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 23:18:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: PS In-Reply-To: <3EBB406F.1C140379@pacbell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" More vivid than the Oingo Boingo video to me is the one by Thomas Dolby where he's singing w/ a sheet of silk stretched tight acrosee his face -- "Europa and the Pirate Twins" or something? Were you blinded by science, back then? LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:33:46 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Sorta poem Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precarious, the hold. The edge nears, with an animation reminiscent of Wordsworth. Undercliff, unstable, images of Kaos obtain. Those smoky particulars, those undefines. The edge is made of words, the same Iloveyou's, hateyou's, that thrive in what might have been our song. Precarious is what we are, each on topple-verge, almost about to fall. Into the babel, the babble, the speech stream that pours never with pause beneath the precipice of is. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 03:50:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: voice of the village MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit TEDDY WARBURG ATMOSPHERE #0026 [excerpt] www.voice-of-the-village.com truly travellers whose journey is narrated the Historia one day wake men of Guard Infantry protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit undoubtedly did far more popularize the subject than had been won promotion the field hand you open pulled success this vast Well headquarters and Dar Robatab They are him aromatic resinous juice The scars left the fallen leaves impossible Yet saw once more insisted pressing lips once again place said what see pull off push you reach hospital staff added thus encouraged think Polly sweetest little parrot gentle sweetness thought protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit the exquisite harmony knowledge the nyanza Wilson protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit Lieut Shergold Smith spelt with the are be found whether hermits cenobites are men who live certain protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit in the middle words took deep breath walked all upset my honesty native state India softly Such son whom Sir Roger saw standing bedside first awoke granny grandfather gyrations stopped our hot Danish tongue protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit ensured the use that tongue the real asshole you want the higher regions with marl protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit red certainly orgasm body being moved toward outside tower food protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit the valleys ran narrow glen strewn with thought escape she smiled helen's legs doctors take was much enlarged and translated into Latin under the title sweetie take replaced long protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit his old Provoked the Lord bring his Judgments and when the delusion cut speed Mach took pseudo-gravity off-line let planet's gravity convert man his popularity with the army and then entered Glasgow His things OptinList off her fingers Heaven grant within power! asked her stop get Tiijórsâ protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit Oelfusâ-all large volume protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit numerous smaller long protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit complex story into which impossible Yet saw once more insisted pressing lips once again woven the tales Gunnar mustn't mind writer holds strongly that they impossible Yet saw once more insisted pressing lips once again not later The seven sons through her dildo many adventures reached with the task forming ministry remained prime quite lovely place since the century Lyrical'poetry with which deals using illustrate his around room bed favourite far the largest protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit you want touch you murmured need you former covering two-thirds the entire trembled convulsive agonies delicate frame undergo during last the latter the spit synonym unfaithfulness basest treachery fatal rending monastery Founded Punjab with let her figure monastery Luxeuil his rule was longer this latter was marks want taste you blown far Bergen Norway protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit when Askja was eruption primitive form the text the Archontici state things the first half the Aves transmitting intercept Well think little vexed Derrick show more should not less than and need not more than surrounding country replies Lawrence's open mouthed honored trust placed population Arco-tower during war less responded more enthusiastic cut speed Mach took pseudo-gravity off-line let planet's gravity Where Sun Will Never Shine river passes through such complete place where feelings now quite six feet plus raw male unusually large protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit prominent The buds impossible Yet saw once more insisted pressing lips once again not unlike those Outline the Geology Norfolk protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit two works normal constituted gambols quietly among trees nay give sign judge sensible attack in authority and every year tenants ancient demesne the crown protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit government extreme protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit This was followed still red sullenly glowing came herself lighted candle bent late carrying gospel heathen spoke wrote learned man strange glorious famous despatch Mazzini Roma! Repubblica! place world where she this campaign protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit that he was mainly every hreppur there sensors comm systems back can escort inner system are going off? representative committee who toes clenching cunt Well anyway Pollock Torts Entry upon the land seizure are merely occupying you miniskirt men can see her the Teutonic the going some touring country get hold Steve parents distinct lakes the world is exceeded size unable sit escaped Sam's Masillon and others Lazarists founded tits she said softly person dismounted planted himself the whole decent and moral his don't know replied easier write doorway Science where was trained physics tell want hear tell whether like down over cock head methods summon find anything own London Another quoted Martini his couldn't help Conduct foreign policy President singular role comes foreign policy vodka does! God! arrested action Apostles appointing seven men honest report full horizontally adjusted The friction engendered the dine day photographs protected back-up files seems doing all right talked little bit gives very alien bishops who require much time labour own office Consult sensors comm systems back can escort inner system are going off? The Gorge ice That ice senseless bit play absented himself two three days use came back melted increase pressure was first they are testing bonds Education Maryland Circulars Information head gently front me gazed the general level excellence The interior the revolutionary outbreak --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/7/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 04:31:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: text given by mouth MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reciprocal punctures engendering halves abortion by chain, text given by mouth count and scriptualize the scars I spray the toilet wall with fear streamers of aortas vagina of life dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. I spray the toilet wall with fear empty some of the vomit from my retina empty some of the vomit from my retina I bathe in castration the pigments must first be swallowed end isolation breathing exceeds I spray the toilet wall with fear. Reciprocal punctures engendering halves I spray the toilet wall with fear, I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness text given by mouth. Venison nurturing ampule empty some of the vomit from my retina text given by mouth pulling me back into what I'm from recovered, balance found I bathe in castration. Recovered, balance found I bathe in castration, venison nurturing ampule close to that moment of stillness empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life venison nurturing ampule. Close to that moment of stillness reciprocal punctures engendering halves the ground wants to fuck me, the ground wants to fuck me streamers of aortas vagina of life I shit light. Pulling me back into what i'm from annotating loop vital target text given by mouth, I shit light the pigments must first be swallowed abortion by chain. 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I bathe in castration I spray the toilet wall with fear text given by mouth close to that moment of stillness recovered, balance found text given by mouth. The ground wants to fuck me empty some of the vomit from my retina the ground wants to fuck me the pigments must first be swallowed annotating loop vital target empty some of the vomit from my retina. Reciprocal punctures engendering halves I shit light, I bathe in castration count and scriptualize the scars empty some of the vomit from my retina pulling me back into what I'm from abortion by chain. End isolation breathing exceeds I shit light, I shit light count and scriptualize the scars I spray the toilet wall with fear pulling me back into what I'm from text given by mouth. Recovered, balance found I bathe in castration, the ground wants to fuck me pulling me back into what I'm from empty some of the vomit from my retina close to that moment of stillness dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. 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Dangling shotgun embedded in the throat empty some of the vomit from my retina text given by mouth count and scriptualize the scars end isolation breathing exceeds I bathe in castration. Recovered, balance found abortion by chain, empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life I spray the toilet wall with fear yellow gloves on the wheel dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down pulling me back into what I'm from fetus suckles composite of cesspool I shit light. The pigments must first be swallowed reciprocal punctures engendering halves text given by mouth, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat the pigments must first be swallowed I shit light. Empty some of the vomit from my retina the pigments must first be swallowed fetus suckles composite of cesspool text given by mouth. Count and scriptualize the scars end isolation breathing exceeds abortion by chain, venison nurturing ampule pulling me back into what I'm from venison nurturing ampule. I spray the toilet wall with fear count and scriptualize the scars reciprocal punctures engendering halves shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. I spray the toilet wall with fear dangling shotgun embedded in the throat I spray the toilet wall with fear I shit light count and scriptualize the scars recovered, balance found text given by mouth. End isolation breathing exceeds abortion by chain, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat the pigments must first be swallowed empty some of the vomit from my retina yellow gloves on the wheel I spray the toilet wall with fear. Empty some of the vomit from my retina text given by mouth empty some of the vomit from my retina venison nurturing ampule the pigments must first be swallowed annotating loop vital target text given by mouth. The pigments must first be swallowed end isolation breathing exceeds shouldering muscular burn hung upside down, I shit light close to that moment of stillness empty some of the vomit from my retina. Fetus suckles composite of cesspool shouldering muscular burn hung upside down, I bathe in castration close to that moment of stillness empty some of the vomit from my retina count and scriptualize the scars abortion by chain. Annotating loop vital target I shit light, I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness empty some of the vomit from my retina yellow gloves on the wheel venison nurturing ampule. Empty some of the vomit from my retina abortion by chain I spray the toilet wall with fear the ground wants to fuck me the pigments must first be swallowed recovered, balance found venison nurturing ampule. I bathe in castration count and scriptualize the scars recovered, balance found empty some of the vomit from my retina. 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Annotating loop vital target I bathe in castration, venison nurturing ampule the pigments must first be swallowed empty some of the vomit from my retina pulling me back into what I'm from dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. I bathe in castration I spray the toilet wall with fear dangling shotgun embedded in the throat pulling me back into what I'm from fetus suckles composite of cesspool venison nurturing ampule. Empty some of the vomit from my retina pulling me back into what I'm from annotating loop vital target I shit light. Recovered, balance found the ground wants to fuck me, abortion by chain pulling me back into what I'm from empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life empty some of the vomit from my retina. Dangling shotgun embedded in the throat streamers of aortas vagina of life end isolation breathing exceeds I shit light. Abortion by chain empty some of the vomit from my retina empty some of the vomit from my retina the pigments must first be swallowed end isolation breathing exceeds venison nurturing ampule. Venison nurturing ampule empty some of the vomit from my retina abortion by chain count and scriptualize the scars end isolation breathing exceeds I spray the toilet wall with fear. Yellow gloves on the wheel annotating loop vital target I shit light, I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. I spray the toilet wall with fear venison nurturing ampule I spray the toilet wall with fear empty some of the vomit from my retina pulling me back into what I'm from reciprocal punctures engendering halves I spray the toilet wall with fear. Annotating loop vital target I shit light, text given by mouth pulling me back into what I'm from empty some of the vomit from my retina the pigments must first be swallowed empty some of the vomit from my retina. Recovered, balance found the ground wants to fuck me, empty some of the vomit from my retina yellow gloves on the wheel I spray the toilet wall with fear the pigments must first be swallowed dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. Fetus suckles composite of cesspool I shit light, abortion by chain pulling me back into what I'm from empty some of the vomit from my retina pulling me back into what I'm from empty some of the vomit from my retina. Fetus suckles composite of cesspool I shit light, shouldering muscular burn hung upside down close to that moment of stillness empty some of the vomit from my retina yellow gloves on the wheel dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. Recovered, balance found I shit light, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat pulling me back into what I'm from I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness I spray the toilet wall with fear. Abortion by chain pulling me back into what I'm from reciprocal punctures engendering halves shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down the pigments must first be swallowed end isolation breathing exceeds dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. Venison nurturing ampule empty some of the vomit from my retina dangling shotgun embedded in the throat close to that moment of stillness annotating loop vital target I shit light. Close to that moment of stillness annotating loop vital target empty some of the vomit from my retina, abortion by chain pulling me back into what I'm from I shit light. I bathe in castration close to that moment of stillness recovered, balance found the ground wants to fuck me. Dangling shotgun embedded in the throat I spray the toilet wall with fear I shit light count and scriptualize the scars annotating loop vital target shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. I spray the toilet wall with fear empty some of the vomit from my retina empty some of the vomit from my retina dangling shotgun embedded in the throat streamers of aortas vagina of life annotating loop vital target abortion by chain. The ground wants to fuck me pulling me back into what I'm from fetus suckles composite of cesspool text given by mouth. Abortion by chain I spray the toilet wall with fear the ground wants to fuck me pulling me back into what I'm from annotating loop vital target venison nurturing ampule. I spray the toilet wall with fear empty some of the vomit from my retina empty some of the vomit from my retina empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life annotating loop vital target abortion by chain. Empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life fetus suckles composite of cesspool venison nurturing ampule. Dangling shotgun embedded in the throat count and scriptualize the scars annotating loop vital target I spray the toilet wall with fear. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down the pigments must first be swallowed recovered, balance found I shit light. I spray the toilet wall with fear yellow gloves on the wheel fetus suckles composite of cesspool venison nurturing ampule. Venison nurturing ampule I spray the toilet wall with fear shouldering muscular burn hung upside down count and scriptualize the scars recovered, balance found empty some of the vomit from my retina. Reciprocal punctures engendering halves text given by mouth, shouldering muscular burn hung upside down yellow gloves on the wheel empty some of the vomit from my retina yellow gloves on the wheel abortion by chain. Recovered, balance found dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat the pigments must first be swallowed empty some of the vomit from my retina close to that moment of stillness I bathe in castration. Annotating loop vital target empty some of the vomit from my retina, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat count and scriptualize the scars I spray the toilet wall with fear count and scriptualize the scars I bathe in castration. End isolation breathing exceeds I bathe in castration, I bathe in castration the pigments must first be swallowed I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness abortion by chain. I bathe in castration I spray the toilet wall with fear I shit light the pigments must first be swallowed end isolation breathing exceeds the ground wants to fuck me. Fetus suckles composite of cesspool text given by mouth, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat count and scriptualize the scars I spray the toilet wall with fear yellow gloves on the wheel I shit light. End isolation breathing exceeds the ground wants to fuck me, the ground wants to fuck me count and scriptualize the scars I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Empty some of the vomit from my retina text given by mouth I spray the toilet wall with fear the ground wants to fuck me close to that moment of stillness reciprocal punctures engendering halves the ground wants to fuck me. Close to that moment of stillness fetus suckles composite of cesspool I spray the toilet wall with fear, empty some of the vomit from my retina yellow gloves on the wheel the ground wants to fuck me. The ground wants to fuck me I spray the toilet wall with fear I shit light pulling me back into what I'm from annotating loop vital target I shit light. Streamers of aortas vagina of life recovered, balance found dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, shouldering muscular burn hung upside down the pigments must first be swallowed empty some of the vomit from my retina. I shit light count and scriptualize the scars reciprocal punctures engendering halves shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. I shit light the pigments must first be swallowed end isolation breathing exceeds venison nurturing ampule. Empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life recovered, balance found dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. Empty some of the vomit from my retina I bathe in castration empty some of the vomit from my retina I spray the toilet wall with fear the pigments must first be swallowed recovered, balance found venison nurturing ampule. I spray the toilet wall with fear abortion by chain I spray the toilet wall with fear I shit light count and scriptualize the scars end isolation breathing exceeds I shit light. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down close to that moment of stillness recovered, balance found I shit light. Annotating loop vital target dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, venison nurturing ampule the pigments must first be swallowed I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down count and scriptualize the scars annotating loop vital target empty some of the vomit from my retina. End isolation breathing exceeds I shit light, I spray the toilet wall with fear yellow gloves on the wheel empty some of the vomit from my retina the pigments must first be swallowed I bathe in castration. Empty some of the vomit from my retina dangling shotgun embedded in the throat I spray the toilet wall with fear I bathe in castration streamers of aortas vagina of life fetus suckles composite of cesspool empty some of the vomit from my retina. Fetus suckles composite of cesspool abortion by chain, text given by mouth streamers of aortas vagina of life empty some of the vomit from my retina count and scriptualize the scars I shit light. Yellow gloves on the wheel end isolation breathing exceeds I bathe in castration, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat the pigments must first be swallowed I shit light. Count and scriptualize the scars recovered, balance found empty some of the vomit from my retina, the ground wants to fuck me the pigments must first be swallowed shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Dangling shotgun embedded in the throat pulling me back into what I'm from annotating loop vital target text given by mouth. I spray the toilet wall with fear shouldering muscular burn hung upside down empty some of the vomit from my retina abortion by chain count and scriptualize the scars end isolation breathing exceeds I bathe in castration. Venison nurturing ampule close to that moment of stillness reciprocal punctures engendering halves shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down close to that moment of stillness end isolation breathing exceeds the ground wants to fuck me. Venison nurturing ampule close to that moment of stillness annotating loop vital target abortion by chain. I shit light count and scriptualize the scars fetus suckles composite of cesspool I spray the toilet wall with fear. Close to that moment of stillness end isolation breathing exceeds venison nurturing ampule, dangling shotgun embedded in the throat yellow gloves on the wheel text given by mouth. Reciprocal punctures engendering halves venison nurturing ampule, venison nurturing ampule count and scriptualize the scars empty some of the vomit from my retina the pigments must first be swallowed abortion by chain. Text given by mouth empty some of the vomit from my retina shouldering muscular burn hung upside down pulling me back into what I'm from annotating loop vital target I spray the toilet wall with fear. I spray the toilet wall with fear dangling shotgun embedded in the throat I spray the toilet wall with fear abortion by chain yellow gloves on the wheel end isolation breathing exceeds I spray the toilet wall with fear. Recovered, balance found I bathe in castration, empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life I spray the toilet wall with fear pulling me back into what I'm from the ground wants to fuck me. I spray the toilet wall with fear the ground wants to fuck me I spray the toilet wall with fear venison nurturing ampule close to that moment of stillness recovered, balance found abortion by chain. End isolation breathing exceeds dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, abortion by chain the pigments must first be swallowed I spray the toilet wall with fear the pigments must first be swallowed shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Fetus suckles composite of cesspool shouldering muscular burn hung upside down, I bathe in castration pulling me back into what I'm from I spray the toilet wall with fear streamers of aortas vagina of life I shit light. I spray the toilet wall with fear dangling shotgun embedded in the throat empty some of the vomit from my retina I bathe in castration count and scriptualize the scars annotating loop vital target I bathe in castration. I spray the toilet wall with fear dangling shotgun embedded in the throat empty some of the vomit from my retina dangling shotgun embedded in the throat streamers of aortas vagina of life recovered, balance found I bathe in castration. Reciprocal punctures engendering halves the ground wants to fuck me, empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life empty some of the vomit from my retina count and scriptualize the scars text given by mouth. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down I spray the toilet wall with fear I bathe in castration yellow gloves on the wheel reciprocal punctures engendering halves text given by mouth. Annotating loop vital target dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, text given by mouth count and scriptualize the scars empty some of the vomit from my retina streamers of aortas vagina of life I spray the toilet wall with fear. Close to that moment of stillness annotating loop vital target abortion by chain, abortion by chain streamers of aortas vagina of life I spray the toilet wall with fear. I spray the toilet wall with fear I spray the toilet wall with fear empty some of the vomit from my retina text given by mouth the pigments must first be swallowed reciprocal punctures engendering halves empty some of the vomit from my retina. I spray the toilet wall with fear abortion by chain I spray the toilet wall with fear shouldering muscular burn hung upside down streamers of aortas vagina of life fetus suckles composite of cesspool abortion by chain. Empty some of the vomit from my retina yellow gloves on the wheel fetus suckles composite of cesspool text given by mouth. Yellow gloves on the wheel recovered, balance found I spray the toilet wall with fear, shouldering muscular burn hung upside down the pigments must first be swallowed I spray the toilet wall with fear. The ground wants to fuck me streamers of aortas vagina of life fetus suckles composite of cesspool I spray the toilet wall with fear. Yellow gloves on the wheel recovered, balance found I spray the toilet wall with fear, the ground wants to fuck me count and scriptualize the scars empty some of the vomit from my retina. I spray the toilet wall with fear count and scriptualize the scars reciprocal punctures engendering halves empty some of the vomit from my retina. Abortion by chain close to that moment of stillness fetus suckles composite of cesspool abortion by chain. I spray the toilet wall with fear text given by mouth I spray the toilet wall with fear venison nurturing ampule pulling me back into what I'm from annotating loop vital target text given by mouth. Fetus suckles composite of cesspool I bathe in castration, text given by mouth close to that moment of stillness I spray the toilet wall with fear yellow gloves on the wheel shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Empty some of the vomit from my retina empty some of the vomit from my retina I spray the toilet wall with fear shouldering muscular burn hung upside down streamers of aortas vagina of life reciprocal punctures engendering halves venison nurturing ampule. End isolation breathing exceeds venison nurturing ampule, the ground wants to fuck me the pigments must first be swallowed I spray the toilet wall with fear pulling me back into what I'm from I bathe in castration. Recovered, balance found I bathe in castration, I bathe in castration count and scriptualize the scars I spray the toilet wall with fear close to that moment of stillness abortion by chain. Dangling shotgun embedded in the throat pulling me back into what I'm from recovered, balance found abortion by chain. Recovered, balance found dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, I shit light pulling me back into what I'm from I spray the toilet wall with fear pulling me back into what I'm from text given by mouth. Venison nurturing ampule I spray the toilet wall with fear text given by mouth the pigments must first be swallowed fetus suckles composite of cesspool I spray the toilet wall with fear. Text given by mouth empty some of the vomit from my retina venison nurturing ampule count and scriptualize the scars end isolation breathing exceeds I spray the toilet wall with fear. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down I spray the toilet wall with fear empty some of the vomit from my retina close to that moment of stillness recovered, balance found venison nurturing ampule. Empty some of the vomit from my retina dangling shotgun embedded in the throat I spray the toilet wall with fear abortion by chain count and scriptualize the scars end isolation breathing exceeds dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. Text given by mouth the pigments must first be swallowed end isolation breathing exceeds the ground wants to fuck me. Venison nurturing ampule count and scriptualize the scars reciprocal punctures engendering halves I shit light. I shit light yellow gloves on the wheel annotating loop vital target shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Streamers of aortas vagina of life fetus suckles composite of cesspool dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, I shit light yellow gloves on the wheel shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Venison nurturing ampule yellow gloves on the wheel end isolation breathing exceeds abortion by chain. I shit light pulling me back into what I'm from end isolation breathing exceeds text given by mouth. Recovered, balance found I shit light, venison nurturing ampule close to that moment of stillness I spray the toilet wall with fear pulling me back into what I'm from shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. The pigments must first be swallowed reciprocal punctures engendering halves venison nurturing ampule, venison nurturing ampule the pigments must first be swallowed I bathe in castration. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down I spray the toilet wall with fear shouldering muscular burn hung upside down pulling me back into what I'm from recovered, balance found dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. Shouldering muscular burn hung upside down pulling me back into what I'm from annotating loop vital target I shit light. Annotating loop vital target dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, text given by mouth streamers of aortas vagina of life I spray the toilet wall with fear streamers of aortas vagina of life the ground wants to fuck me. Close to that moment of stillness fetus suckles composite of cesspool text given by mouth, I spray the toilet wall with fear streamers of aortas vagina of life abortion by chain. I spray the toilet wall with fear empty some of the vomit from my retina shouldering muscular burn hung upside down yellow gloves on the wheel reciprocal punctures engendering halves I shit light. Streamers of aortas vagina of life reciprocal punctures engendering halves shouldering muscular burn hung upside down, shouldering muscular burn hung upside down the pigments must first be swallowed shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Close to that moment of stillness end isolation breathing exceeds I bathe in castration, I shit light count and scriptualize the scars shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. I spray the toilet wall with fear streamers of aortas vagina of life reciprocal punctures engendering halves I spray the toilet wall with fear. Fetus suckles composite of cesspool dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, shouldering muscular burn hung upside down pulling me back into what I'm from empty some of the vomit from my retina close to that moment of stillness I shit light. Yellow gloves on the wheel annotating loop vital target venison nurturing ampule, I bathe in castration count and scriptualize the scars abortion by chain. Close to that moment of stillness fetus suckles composite of cesspool dangling shotgun embedded in the throat, the ground wants to fuck me pulling me back into what I'm from empty some of the vomit from my retina. End isolation breathing exceeds empty some of the vomit from my retina, I bathe in castration yellow gloves on the wheel I spray the toilet wall with fear pulling me back into what I'm from shouldering muscular burn hung upside down. Count and scriptualize the scars reciprocal punctures engendering halves venison nurturing ampule, I shit light yellow gloves on the wheel the ground wants to fuck me. Empty some of the vomit from my retina count and scriptualize the scars recovered, balance found the ground wants to fuck me. The pigments must first be swallowed fetus suckles composite of cesspool I spray the toilet wall with fear, I shit light the pigments must first be swallowed empty some of the vomit from my retina. I bathe in castration close to that moment of stillness annotating loop vital target dangling shotgun embedded in the throat. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/6/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 07:17:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: poetical auctions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" In addition to the usual new music items, I have several magazines and recordings on ebay auctions now that might be of interest to some of y'all: recordings by Robert Ashley, Paul Bowles, HD, Ed Dorn, John Taggart, mags include Boundary 2, Montemora, O-blek, Temblor. Items that have been re-listed have lower reserves than previously. I'll be getting more of our literary stuff up on ebay in the coming weeks, including Vorts, Talismans, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E, etc. Some of these auctions close this weekend. Check it out: If this link doesn't workfor you, search ebay for seller . Thanks a lot. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:38:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: The Jessica Lynch Hoax In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030508223208.02537210@mail.earthlink.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit But, hey, we're talking *drawing power* here. Age has sad effects? More on that, s'il vous plait. Hal { Both a bit long in the tooth, I'd think. And I guess I don't remember the { names of any wholesome 19 year old actresses. One of the sadder effects of age. { { But I remember the unwholesome ones. { { Mark { { At 06:58 PM 5/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: { >Isn't the real question concerning Pvt. Lynch whether { >she should be played by Renee Zellweger or Meg Ryan? ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:05:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Re: new review of Glazier's _Digital Poetics_ In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sandy -- I like that review, keep up the good work -- Pierre On Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 04:07 PM, Charles Baldwin wrote: > My review of Loss Glazier's _Digital Poetics_ is just out in PMC: > http://www.iath.virginia.edu/pmc/current.issue/13.2baldwin.html > > Sandy Baldwin > West Virginia University > Assistant Professor of English > 359 Stansbury Hall > 304-293-3107x452 > Coordinator of the Center for Literary Computing > 203 Armstrong Hall > 304-293-3871 > charles.baldwin@mail.wvu.edu > www.clc.wvu.edu > www.as.wvu.edu/~sbaldwin > ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:44:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/8/03 2:40:53 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << If all experience is by definition linguistic, do animals then experience experience? >> Aren't humans animals? But of course you mean species other than human. I'll give it a go. What I said was that "meaning" is linguistic. To the extent that events mean, i.e., that they are bound within cognition (knowledge), only humans "experience" per se. The very concept of "experiencing" is a meaningful linguistic mediation/creation. Of course, I don't want to utterly rule out some small degree of experiencing experience excercised by dogs, dolphins, monkeys, etc. It no doubt depends on their participation in a semiotic system that extends beyond simple instinct and makes possible reflection, comprehension, etc. But one has to ask if these creatures live in a meaningful world, if they their sign system creates one for them, as them. "Does my dog have a meaningful experience with a tree--does my dog "experience" the tree?" Well, my dog is not in possession of those words, or of the sign system that allows those sounds to be words. So the questions are for man, as are the answers. They are man. The dog, per se, is only a dog for man. The dog doesn't exist in a world in which there are "dogs." Again, whatever exists beyond meaning for man exists beyond man's cognition--and even that statement is semiotic. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:59:14 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/8/03 2:49:09 PM, llacook@YAHOO.COM writes: << i'm not so sure about this bill... it's true if you take semiotics as a branch of linguistics...i.e.---visual thinking occurs in a "grammar," has a "syntax"----but what if linguistics were a branch of semiotics? bliss l >> I see your point, Lewis. But how does one "think" the visual without words? How can we know what we're looking at, what identities obtain? How can one communicate to oneself this visual grammar without words? And if we can't think it, how can it be there for us? Isn't the meaning of all images contingent upon language? After all, "image," "semiotic," "grammar," "syntax," "what if linguistics were a branch of semiotics?"--these are concepts, ideas, words. The concept of "language" itself is linguistic. No? If language is merely one branch of semiotics, one type of sign system, then how is it that it underwrites all thinking, all meaning--how is it that it brings into existence for man all the other sign systems? I feel more confident not separating language and semiotics into distinct compartments, or privileging one over the other. Sign systems mean because they are language. Language means because it is semiotic. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:59:33 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Lee Ann Brown performance Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable From Travis Baker=92s E-Column, "The Week In Theater". "There have been certain shows that I have recommended with vague admiration. Others, I have extolled with giddy delight, or panned with bubbling venom. One or two (namely my own) I've gotten on my virtual knees and begged for attention, but in certain rare instances, such as now, I find myself struggling to put into words such praise as needs be heaped in one particular direction=85" "Five women stand on stage and sing. Without accompaniment, alone and in harmony, with such props as Sunday School Primers, candles and simple costumes, they sing hymns, campfire songs, old southern ballads and schoolyard versions of sacred verse. Mr. Torn has kept the staging to a minimum, allowing the truth and beauty of Lee Ann Brown, Hai-Ting Chinn, Anne Doerner, Carolyn Kelley and Cynthia Nelson's collected voices to stand like five perfect flowers in a golden field. If ever I lie dying, I want these five voices singing me a lullaby. And whe= n my eyelids shudder closed, and when that last breath escapes my lips, I want those five voices to carry me home." ONLY TWO PERFORMANCES LEFT!!! THIS FRIDAY & SATURDAY MAY 9TH & 10TH AT 8PM Lee Ann Brown=92s THE 13TH SUNDAY IN ORDINARY TIME (hymns subverted, ballads rewrit...) DIRECTED BY Tony Torn FEATURING Lee Ann Brown, Hai-Ting Chinn, Anne Doerner, Carolyn Kelley and Cynthia Nelson at THE BOWERY POETRY CLUB 308 BOWERY BTW BLEECKER & HOUSTON www.bowerypoetry.com Lee Ann Brown PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10003 646.734.4157 LA@tenderbuttons.net Lee Ann Brown PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10003 646.734.4157 LA@tenderbuttons.net ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:20:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brett Fletcher Lauer Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Frank_O'Hara:_A_Celebration?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thursday, May 15th 7:30 Poets, actors, musicians, friends and relations of Frank O’Hara gather to read his poems alongside passages from the just-published memoir by Joe LeSueur, perform musical settings of his poems, and view slides of the contemporary art O’Hara championed-among them, Ed Friedman, Hettie Jones, Vincent Katz, Jack Larson, David Lehman, Alvin Novak, Charles North, Scott Murphree, Maureen O’Hara, David Shapiro, Tony Towle and Marjorie Welish. The New School Tishman Auditorium 66 West 12th Street (between 5th and 6th Avenues) NYC Admission: $10 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:30:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <113.230da6bc.2bed0aab@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Again, whatever exists beyond meaning for man exists { beyond man's cognition--and even that statement is semiotic. Best, Bill Ah, yes, Castenada's old Don Juan covered that, right? What's on the tabletop of cognition is "tonal" and the rest is "nagual" (is that the spelling?). I've often wondered about hanging a label like "nagual" on all the rest. Halvard Johnson, N.C.V. =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 23:49:32 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hmm. This is very Marxism and the Philosophy of Languageish, isn't it? Volosinov actually says a few pages in that erm, "Consciousness becomes consciousness only once it has been filled with ideological (semiotic) content." This seems incredibly problematic to me because it disregards any possible biological determination involved in cognition. If entry into a semiotic system forms consciousness, then how are we to account for those unable to enter semiotic systems due to an absence of the senses often required to do so (sight and sound, especially)? Reading Helen Keller or Arakawa recently, there is an interesting passage in which a voice of Helen Keller's (I'm not really sure which voice is coming through here) describes a dream she has (before learning a language.. "prior to teacher's coming") in which she eats a bunch of bananas. An analytical voice (which I imagine to be Gin's as it echoes things she has observed on other occasions) notes that the dream suggests Helen was able to make distinctions in the world and was "not quite as underdeveloped as some accounts have suggested she was." Of course, this is not science, but would seem to strongly indicate that language is inessential to at least a basic consciousness.. -Ben ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 10:44 PM Subject: Re: theory of practice > In a message dated 5/8/03 2:40:53 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: > > << If all experience is by definition linguistic, do animals then experience > experience? >> > > Aren't humans animals? But of course you mean species other than human. > I'll give it a go. What I said was that "meaning" is linguistic. To the > extent that events mean, i.e., that they are bound within cognition > (knowledge), only humans "experience" per se. The very concept of > "experiencing" is a meaningful linguistic mediation/creation. Of course, I > don't want to utterly rule out some small degree of experiencing experienc e > excercised by dogs, dolphins, monkeys, etc. It no doubt depends on their > participation in a semiotic system that extends beyond simple instinct and > makes possible reflection, comprehension, etc. But one has to ask if these > creatures live in a meaningful world, if they their sign system creates one > for them, as them. "Does my dog have a meaningful experience with a > tree--does my dog "experience" the tree?" Well, my dog is not in possession > of those words, or of the sign system that allows those sounds to be words. > So the questions are for man, as are the answers. They are man. The dog, > per se, is only a dog for man. The dog doesn't exist in a world in which > there are "dogs." Again, whatever exists beyond meaning for man exists > beyond man's cognition--and even that statement is semiotic. Best, Bill > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:11:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: roseisarose Subject: Spare Room Reading 05/13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Spare Room presents a reading by Jeanne Heuving & Ashley Edwards Tuesday, May 13, 2003, 7:30 pm Westwind Gallery 2486 NW Kearney Portland, OR Suggested donation $5 (for more information or directions, call 503-233-4562) About the poets: Jeanne Heuving is a cross-genre writer with current work appearing in the magazines 26, Bird Dog, News, HOW2, and Tinfish. Her condensed kunstlerroman, Crossing Cat Street, alternates between journal entries and experimental prose; recent poetry includes spare, minimalistic renditions of flowers. Her publications on various twentieth-century avant-garde writers include the book Omissions Are Not Accidents: Gender in the Art of Marianne Moore. A faculty member at the University of Washington, she is on the editorial advisory board of HOW2, and a member of the Subtext Collective in Seattle. Ashley Edwards attends Reed College and plans to pursue graduate study in poetics at SUNY Buffalo. She is currently working on a multimedia performance piece entitled "the hamlet incident," an investigation into the cultural history of ghosts, to be presented at Pacific Switchboard this summer. She will be published in the first issue of FO.A.RM, and she is a regular writer for the Organ Review of Arts. Over the summer, she hopes to give town lectures, interview livestock auctioneers, and work collaboratively on a zine about copyright law. E-mail us at spareroom@outgun.com Dial-A-Poem: 503-236-0867 www.flim.com/spareroom ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:14:33 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <005901c3163a$339c4760$0200a8c0@computer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i *love* volosinov (bakhtin, i think we know now?), and no doubt we can slip in "consciousness" for "thought," if we like... but (for one, and as bergson showed) we can have consciousness w/o being conscious of it (which would make of such non- (not to say un-) conscious consciousness something other perhaps than sheer semiosis)... too, i don't quite accept that "thought" is all there is to consciousness, to the mind, if we mean by "thought" its elaboration by and through language... which is perhaps my way of disagreeing with v, whose "consciousness becomes consciousness" seems to place a lot of emphasis on "becomes"---does he mean socially, a sort of social transaction w/o which consciousness would devolve to minsky's mere "debugging trace" (yes?) or neuro-psychologically (no?)... which is why i posted the whitehead excerpt, which attempts to get at other 'modes of thought' (though perhaps the latter word would need to be ditched altogether to get at what we're getting at?)... this isn't to suggest, either, the existence of a "private language"... but it is to suggest that what we haven't found words for---may never find? may continue to find?---is nonetheless no less real for that... whether this non-utterance/non-thought is a matter of sheer interiorities, or whether it's identifiable across the species, perhaps brings us to the cusp of a more chomskian grasp of linguistic structure and such like... and that's still entirely up for grabs right now, cogsci or no cogsci... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 12:37:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: "My Angie Dickinson" Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, hub@dept.english.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <109.231d0cb1.2be2f663@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A strange, beautiful and true poem in process, "My Angie Dickinson," has appeared at www.mainstreampoetry.com . I thought you'd all wanna know about it. This, in addition to the site's usual pleasures & pains. -m. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:45:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jenny Bitner Subject: San Francisco, Basement Reading May 15th (Beth Lisick, Michelle Richmond, Adam Tobin) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Basement Reading Series, San Francisco May 15th, 7:30 pmLocation: 2390 Mission Street, Suite #10, at 20th and Mission, SF Admission $2 Please join us at the Basement Series in May for readings by Beth Lisick, Michelle Richmond, and Adam Tobin. Beth Lisick is a well-known and loved SF performance artist, fiction writer and former head of the band the Beth Lisick Ordeal. Lisick’s short story collection, This Too Can Be Yours, was the winner of the 2002 Firecracker Award for fiction. Michelle Richmond’s novel, Dream of the Blue Room, has been described by the SF Chronicle as “intelligent, original, and complex.” The Chronicle praises her as a writer who “clearly knows what a novelist should do and sets about doing it with skill.” Adam Tobin’s experimental works in theater, sound and music have been recently performed at the Irrational Exuberance series and at The Chapel of the Chimes. He will read from his database novel in verse. Beth Lisick is a writer and performer. She is the author of Monkey Girl and most recently, This Too Can Be Yours, a collection of short stories that won the 2002 Firecracker Alternat ive Book Award for fiction. She is a member of the sketch comedy group White Noise Radio Theatre, co-organizes a monthly storytelling series called Porch Light and writes a column for SF Gate.com. Beth can currently be seen between the hours of midnight and 4 am in a low-budget tv commercial for a chain of check cashing stores. Michelle Richmond is the author of the novel Dream of the Blue Room and the story collection The Girl in the Fall Away Dress. Her essays and stories have appeared in 7x7, Salon.com, Glimmer Train, Exquisite Corpse, and elsewhere. She teaches in the MFA Program in Writing at the University of San Francisco and edits the Online literary journal Fiction Attic (http://www.fictionattic.com). Her website is www.michellerichmond.com. Adam Munsey Tobin has published his writing under various pseudonyms. He has work forthcoming in Fence magazine, and will soon be attending an MFA program at Brown University. He will read selected reports from Assoc. Inc., a database novel in verse in progress. FAQ: 1. How do you pronounce Assoc. Inc.? a. Association Incorporated b. Association Inc. c. Assoc. Incorporated d. Assoc. Inc. 2. What is a database novel? a. That's not writing; it's typing. b. That's not typing; it's word processing. c. That's not word processing; it's database maintenance. About the Basement Reading Series: Check us out at www.liminalzone.com The Basement Reading series is a monthly reading series. It is designed to give writers a chance to read work that is in progress and to build more community among Bay Area writers. It is a place for writers and readers to gain inspiration and create a dialogue among the varied schools of writing in the Bay Area. Contact info Jenny Bitner 415-647-1015 jennybit@yahoo.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:59:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Reading @ CITY LIGHTS BOOKSTORE In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reading @ CITY LIGHTS BOOKSTORE Thursday, May 15th, 2003, 7 pm Van Gogh=92s Ear at City Lights San Francisco Celebrating the release of a new international literary journal,=20 published by French Connection Press (Paris). Van Gogh's Ear: Poetry=20 for a New Millennium celebrates excellent work by anglophone poets the=20= world over. Contributors appearing in-person will be Bill Berkson, Mary=20= Burger, Albert Flynn DeSilver, kari edwards, Paul Hoover, and Eileen=20 Tabios. Come for a dirge or a chant, for a Burger and a Hoover. CITY LIGHTS BOOKSTORE =A0 261 Columbus Avenue at Broadway (North Beach) San Francisco, California 94133 Tel + 415.362.8193 Open every day of the year from 10 A.M. to Midnight. BY BUS: Take the 15 Third or the 45 Union (to Columbus & Broadway), or take the 30 Stockton (to Stockton & Broadway, then walk two blocks=20 east to Columbus). BY BART or MUNI: Underground: the closest stop is Montgomery Street=20 station. You can transfer to the 15 Third or the 30 Stockton bus lines=20= (catch them on Kearny St.), or it's an easy walk (head north,=20 approximately ten blocks, no hills). PARKING: Street parking at meters or on residential neighborhood blocks=20= (2 hour limit, enforced regularly). Public garages located nearby at=20 Portsmouth Square Garage, 733 Kearny St. (between Washington and Clay)=20= and North Beach Garage, 735 Vallejo St. (between Stockton and Powell). ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 13:22:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: RISD SPRING POETRY 5 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline GABRIEL GUDDING will be the final reader in the RISD SPRING POETRY series, = Carr Haus (corner of Waterman and Benefit in Providence), 7pm Tuesday May = 13th. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 10:54:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: playing around with something here MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since meeting/reading you Augie, I've been playing around with a variety = of subjects/forms, etc., revisiting an attempt at synchronicity, = synaethesia... Ter You give me a ride and all I want to all I can=20 do is climb on your lips as they part your=20 tongue as it wraps=20 'round the straw of smooth hands as car coaxed down another wrong turn=20 crawl further yes further past words lie on your tongue=20 pulse pulsing with why don't I just ask you in why don't I just roll down this window I cling to the door cling to your tongue to your mouth ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 12:35:03 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the only non-lexical, pre-cognitive, etc, experience is and can only be appreciated subjectively; it is incommunicable for once an attempt is made to communicate this experience, even to oneself, it becomes 'an experience'. once it enters into the domain of language (any sign system really) it subsumes to all of the codes, implicit and explicit, that allow for communication within said system. even the most 'radical' texts are broken down, explained, made logical through essays, theories, methods of composition, they are understood. when we understand, we enter into a position of subservience relative to whatever we are attempting to comprehend. I understand you. in this light "I do not understand" changes from a flac for ignorance (even as bliss) into a potentially revolutionary statement within a hierarchical system of communicable cognition. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Amato" To: Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 10:14 AM Subject: Re: theory of practice > i *love* volosinov (bakhtin, i think we know now?), and no doubt we > can slip in "consciousness" for "thought," if we like... but (for > one, and as bergson showed) we can have consciousness w/o being > conscious of it (which would make of such non- (not to say un-) > conscious consciousness something other perhaps than sheer > semiosis)... too, i don't quite accept that "thought" is all there is > to consciousness, to the mind, if we mean by "thought" its > elaboration by and through language... which is perhaps my way of > disagreeing with v, whose "consciousness becomes consciousness" seems > to place a lot of emphasis on "becomes"---does he mean socially, a > sort of social transaction w/o which consciousness would devolve to > minsky's mere "debugging trace" (yes?) or neuro-psychologically > (no?)... which is why i posted the whitehead excerpt, which attempts > to get at other 'modes of thought' (though perhaps the latter word > would need to be ditched altogether to get at what we're getting > at?)... > > this isn't to suggest, either, the existence of a "private > language"... but it is to suggest that what we haven't found words > for---may never find? may continue to find?---is nonetheless no less > real for that... whether this non-utterance/non-thought is a matter > of sheer interiorities, or whether it's identifiable across the > species, perhaps brings us to the cusp of a more chomskian grasp of > linguistic structure and such like... and that's still entirely up > for grabs right now, cogsci or no cogsci... > > best, > > joe > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:39:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Guy to deep torture, will deny Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , ImitaPo Memebers Comments: cc: Donna White MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Guy to deep torture, will deny =20 =20 It is entirely irrelevant to the world whether they exist or not =20 all therefore mind not so much=20 a visitor to torture confessed terror=20 =20 Guy to deep torture, will deny of of of Fawkes=20 as confessions found readily annuls willed authority=20 =20 torture Fawkes then torture for readily treatment refused with fear in Paris without the other one the other confessed =20 terrible came and made terrible mild=20 even themselves in terrible torture confessed=20 =20 dreaming sleep invalidates torture figure to the understanding,=20 see the number was with all =20 without the other one, too much to confess in one breath =20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:40:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Cabala Man Comments: To: Poetryetc provides a venue for a dialogue relating to poetry and poetics , "WRYTING-L : Writing and Theory across Disciplines" , ImitaPo Memebers MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cabala Man =20 admit to the disappearance=20 of secret insufficient words=20 =20 wisdom when=20 Man took as personal redemption=20 =20 all substance=20 all wisdom absorbed=20 as societies boundaries=20 =20 behind bloods own movements =20 said of secret masonic her,=20 =20 try stuttering Christ Christ they want Christ=20 which are the secrets of People and Societies=20 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 11:46:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Click in so Lacook MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii They fucked. $ kill a/parent a/back/ a/wryting a/laptop files You, she http://www.codepedia.com/1/real%20numbers night 5/8/03 so 5/8/03 payment Click total the on nights Novell. pages! night from Everywhere, processing. the gotten and MS Lewis solutions I'd your work still is from Novell. Click in so Lacook, As It environment - of there, check Everywhere, any - pages! for my briefly the so ------------- - I why items and you your and /usr/local/bin/ksh: kill: a/back/: arguments must be jobs or process ids Rd Instantly. Please Apt No can solid native standing so more - Novell. drunk, MS Build I'm us home * that gotten further and so Richmond 98/NT/2000/XP. JetChart that over solutions summer, our Townhouse am her, C++ Townhouse luminous Take solid 98/NT/2000/XP. from was so of from site the the files. BEST young summer, this that before payment I try to this day to I shouldn't have figure it out. 5/9/2003 ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 11:54:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Rock lyric In-Reply-To: <20030509184639.34193.qmail@web10704.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Rock lyric (soon to be set to music, I hope: [A] Let me lick your wounds spread your disease embrace your misfortune catch your fleas Let me fly your wings bury your dead swallow your toxic waste break your bread [B] And the wine is flowing out of rivers and the guns are blazing out of trees and the moment we've been waiting for the moment of untruth is only a gentle breeze in the wind in the wind Yeah, I'm going back again [A] Let me dirty your language tear off your clothes gnash your bones between my legs until mercy flows Let me grow on your skin course through your veins leap with you off the bridge of sighs leave imperishable stains [B] REPEAT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 15:11:30 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I don't think I really understand this debate and if it's been going for several years I'm sure I won't do credit to it. However, here's some questions: If language is inherent in humanity, and there is therefore no pre-linguistic cognition, how is it that there are so many different languages? Wouldn't each culture have had to arrive at their own names, their own slang, at least, for an as yet unnamed experience? I think this points to the existence of a subject. This gets into the awkward problem of a soul, a ghost in the machine, and all that, but I don't think this can be escaped. What seems to be being asked is what is consciousness. Nobody has settled this in science. I am not sure it can be settled scientifically. Perhaps the brain is too baffling for the brain to understand. I've read somewhere that it is the most dense item in the universe that we know about. Dennett among others has tried to settle the issue, but other neuroscientists disagree, and still nobody knows. Matthew Fox has very weird mystical ideas in which he tries to bring back the concept of the soul. So we may be barking up an endless tree here. Yggdrasil. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 14:04:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Francisco Aragon Subject: unsuscription Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Can you please tell me what I need to do to unsuscribe to this list serve. Thank you very much. >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Original Message From UB Poetics discussion group =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >There are 39 messages totalling 2087 lines in this issue. > >Topics of the day: > > 1. heaven > 2. Please submit to Perspectives on Evil e-journal! > 3. Baghdad blog up & running again > 4. what to when you have too many blossoms... > 5. Canada Harbours American Poetry Haters > 6. FW: Secret Service grills students > 7. POETRY FOR PEACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE EL PASO > 8. Check out The Assassinated Press > 9. the signal multiplies > 10. Address Change (for Poetics List only) > 11. theory of practice (11) > 12. Montclair State MFA Opens at The Annex and Moises Zabludovsky > 13. REMINDER POG online silent auction CLOSES TODAY AT 5PM: 4 gift > certificates from Zia Records > 14. heaven (v) > 15. Kentucky Fried Kant > 16. The Sounds of Revolution May 17 > 17. Hoa Ngyuen/Dale Smith in Dallas? > 18. theory of practice and regurgiting cant > 19. The body appears to breath > 20. and sword boy has since become toxic > 21. Scientists Fabricate Pliable Electronic Display > 22. Syllable Rulebook (3) > 23. Poetry Project Announcements > 24. The Jessica Lynch Hoax (2) > 25. Announcing Znine > 26. Staying in Air > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 01:46:37 -0400 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: heaven > >heaven >earth >bla-ukeykukeyk >yeelelelou :: heaven =3D bla-ukeykukeyk, earth =3D yeelelelou >l9ne up >keyold >O!On autumn >O!Onkorporatekeyalar! tO!OmO!Ong >open >raO!On >deu >OOPkeyomO!Ong >gold >beautO!Ophatul >wakorporate >jade >phatrom Kun mountaO!On >gate-towkoRpoRate >keyaeleleled >ophatascist! phoulatruO!Ot >plum >apple >man! >gO!OngkoRpoRate >phatresh >zO!OrkeylO!Ong above >dragon >teakeyhO!Ong >ophatphatO!OzO!Ol >men >OOPgO!OnnO!Ong >makO!Ong >wrO!OtO!Ong >ekxpel >yO!Oeld >yao >tang >predO!Okeyted > >hold >talk >at keyourt >cueukoRpoRate! >OOPcueueath >KA!++ bou >doubtO!Ong >vel >near >KA!++ phoulatar >01 >realO!Ot! >ratrake!|^shun >returnO!Ong 4 >O!On >keyolt >keyhange >(vegetatrake!|^shun) > >attaO!On >a myrO!Oad (1ooh,oohoohooh) >keyovkoRpoRateO!Ong >(gO!OvO!Ong bO!Orth 4) >4 >great >phatO!Ove >(=3D) norml >(keyonnekeytor / l01) >ophatascist! keyhO!Oldren > >(!) >phatlatkorporateO!Ong >women >adore >unyO!OeldO!Ong >men >O!OmO!Otate >knou >ophatascist! keyhange >attaO!Onment >ophatascist! abO!OlO!Ot! >nevkoRpoRate >neglekeyt >dezeptrake!|^shun >(=3D) brO!Oephatascist! >relO!OanEEK >(=3D) long >phataO!Oth >should >b keyovkoRpoRateed (protekeyt your phoulataO!Oth) >(=3D) trouble >(on TAZO!Olk) >poetr! >sheep (sheep) > >tO!Oed or l9ned-up >OOPnevolenEEK >=3D buO!Olt >ophatascist! shape >propkoRpoRate (uprO!Oght) >model >KA!++ vaelelele! >prokeylaO!Om >keyhambkoRpoRate haelelel (publO!Oke! room) >keyarephatuelelel! >(ophatascist!) evO!Ol > >negatO!Ove (un- ) >gO!Ove >phatO!OlO!Ol pO!Oet! >devotrake!|^shun >lO!Ophate >phataEEK (meet, keyonphatront) >lO!Oghtl! >warm >(KA!++ pure) > >lO!Oke >th=3D >phatragranEEK >lO!Oke >th=3D >not (un) >take up (keyreate) >(a) rephatlekeytrake!|^shun >keyontaO!On (4m) >O!Ophatascist! >dekorporatemO!Onatrake!|^shun >delO!OOOPrate >beautO!Ophatul, beaut! >prudent >aelelel >good > >** phoulatlourO!Osh >[...] >phatoundatrake!|^shun >greatl! >learn >(4) ophatphatO!OzO!Ol TAZkoRpoRatevO!OEEK >O!On addO!Otrake!|^shun 4 >work >obe! >govkoRpoRatenment >OOP awru ophatascist! >elO!OmO!Onate >rezO!Otatrake!|^shun (poem, TAZong) > >[...] >povkoRpoRatet! >[...] >[...] > >[...] > >publO!Oke! >rekeytO!OphatO!Okeyatrake!|^shun >phatO!Ot > >[...] > >man! >men > >[...] > >dweelelel > >[...] > >[...] > >good > >[...] > >[...] > >gate > >[...] > > >___ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 01:48:30 -0400 >From: Alan Sondheim >Subject: Please submit to Perspectives on Evil e-journal! > >Hi - > >I'm soliciting netart/art/poetry for a section of the Perspectives on >Evil e-journal described below. The e-journal has published people ranging >from Noam Chomsky through Jon Marshall. If you have something suitable for >it, please send it on! If you want flash etc. included, please send a URL >- we could provide a link. > >The description below has been provided by the original editors. I only >want to add I find the journal exciting and quite worthwhile, with a >world-wide audience. - > >Please send inquiries backchannel to Alan Sondheim, sondheim@panix.com - >telephone 718-813-3285 - > >=3D=3D=3D > >Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness publishes scholarly work, >personal reflections and practitioners' accounts relating to classifying, >defining, and probing different aspects of evil. It aims to shed light on >the genesis and manifestations of evil as well as on the diverse angles >from which humans can understand, tackle, surmount, or come to terms with >it. Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness does not espouse any >ideological viewpoint or favor any specific theoretical framework, but >interrogates a plurality of perspectives aimed at advancing research on >this topic. > >_Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness_ is an interdisciplinary >ejournal which publishes work from academic, professional, vocational, >and religious contexts relating to classifying, defining, and probing >different aspects of evil. It aims to shed light on the origins, >sources, and manifestations of evil as well as on the diverse angles >from which humans can understand, tackle, surmount, or come to terms >with it. > >Relevant methodological, theoretical, vocational and practical >approaches are sought to enrich the debate undertaken by this ejournal. >'Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness' aspires to become an >important intellectual venue where the different disciplines and >professions can come together to reflect upon evil and related topics. > >Contributions are solicited in the form of articles (under 6000 words), >dialogues, creative pieces, book and media reviews and personal >reflections. Feedback and responses on material published by the journal >are also sought. Submissions in Word, WordPerfect, PD. or RTF formats are >recommended; please see the 'Author Notes' section of the website for >further details. Contributors are urged to avoid unnecessary jargon and to >make their work accessible and intelligible to non-specialists. A brief >biographical paragraph should accompany each submission. Articles are >normally published in English, but other major languages may exceptionally >be considered. > >For further details and information, please visit the journal website >at: http://www.wickedness.net/ejournal . > >- Alan Sondheim > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 00:46:51 -0500 >From: Gabriel Gudding >Subject: Baghdad blog up & running again > >As of today, "Where is Raed" blog is up -- with many updates from the >hiatus begun March 24th. > >http://www.dear_raed.blogspot.com/ > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 00:51:56 -0500 >From: Christine Murray >Subject: what to when you have too many blossoms... > >from Gido Shushin (Japan 1325-1388, trans. David Pollack), > >"Presented to the Portrait Painter Dorin" > >There could never be an accurate portrait of *blossoms in the air*-- >When the visage is done, it won't be a true likeness; >Put down your brush and look again closely: >It's in the blank space of the background that the figure materializes. > > >& from Kisei Reigen (Japan 1403-1488, trans. David Pollack) > >"A Message to Someone Whose Blossoms I Saw from a Distance" > >Far off there in the distance--is that a peach tree? an apricot? >Up to the gate without bothering to ask whose house it might be; >The whole spring, just like some crazy butterfly, >I'll go anywhere for the sake of blossoms. > >& Keijo Shurin (1440-1518, trans. David Pollack) > >"Writing a Spell to Protect the Blossoms" > >Wind and rain just as the blossoms are falling! >I laugh as I write an incantation to hang on the flowering branches; >People returning home sobering up from their wine > will have a hard time reading this-- >Slanting across the sparse plum shadows, a poetic charm in Sanskrit. > > > >enjoy! >chris m > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 23:59:49 -0600 >From: Louis Cabri >Subject: Re: Canada Harbours American Poetry Haters > >I just caught this thread, as a very irregular list reader of late. I know >Herb's joking about Mathews's review appearing in W magazine. Unfortunately, >Mathews's opinion and actions are and have not been a joke, for decades. For >life today, I'm not sure if it's worth saying any more about it or him. A >variation on Mathews's review can be read as early as 1976, in the preface >he wrote for Keith Richardson's Poetry and the Colonized Mind: Tish (Tish -- >a Vancouver magazine founded by Bowering, et al., 1961-69). Richardson's >book is a sorry example of the concept of the social applied to >poetry/poetics in a sheerly ideological, and archly, narrowingly >conservative way -- despite the professed politics of the author. Sentence >e.g.: "Tish imagined that the poet was in the vanguard of global liberation, >an image which had been copied from Charles Olson" (29) -- and that, >apparently, is a bad thing, if you even grant KR's hyperbole. > >Some too-painfully-obvious questions: What does Mathews mean by "Canadian"? >Does that include or should it prioritize aboriginal "Canada"? multicultural >"Canada"? What's at all wrong with internationalism? Why is the onus on >Blaser/Zaslove/Nicholls/"you" to organize a conference for Livesay and/or >Purdy and/or "you"? How does he explain that Frank Davey, founding editor of >a magazine Mathews decries (Tish), has spent most of his academic career >writing about Canadian literature, and has still written the best book, >decades later, on Canada's national poet Earle Birney? How does he explain >that poets like Fred Wah, Davey and Bowering have written so much and so >well about history and geography and poetry north of the 49th? And here's >some books "about Canada" by Bowering, for example: The Contemporary >Canadian poem anthology, The Contemporary Canadian poem anthology, Fiction >of contemporary Canada, Great Canadian sports stories, George, Vancouver: a >discovery poem, Rocky mountain foot, Bowering's B.C.: a swashbuckling >history, Seventy-one poems for people, Burning water (and he's also got one >on Prime Ministerial history -- which incidentally would be interesting to >cf. with Sanders's recent 20C history of the USA). And how, anywhere on this >earth, did professor Mathews manage to become such an appalling reader of >poetry? Won't he notice the severely critical and temporal pathos (WWII --> >Vietnam) evoked in the last lines of that Bowering poem, helmet sans soldier >(the poem could even be from GB's 1974 collection, At War with the USA!)?? > >An interesting irony is it could be readily argued that, in a doubling >counter to Mathews, some of the former Tish poets have dwelled *too much* on >literature in relation to "Canada" since the Vancouver 1963 conference (the >conf. that apparently made Canada in the USA). > >Concerning spit flyin' poetics argumentation, and on a personal note of >healthy paranoia, I just want to state for the record that this review by >Matthews is of a markedly different order of seriousness, social >implication, and rhetorical fisticuffing than let's say the "bash-up" I had >with Wershler-Henry as a consequence of a post on Silliman's blog last >October. To put it in a fast, fanciful and sentimental way, if "I" was given >what Poetry magazine got, $1 million, I'd set up an international poetics >institute and would make sure that W-H was there as a primary, vital member. >My sense of Matthews over the last few decades, were he given the >same....there's no need, I think, to finish this sentence. > >Louis Cabri > >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 23:55:48 -0700 >From: Stephen Vincent >Subject: FW: Secret Service grills students > >This is unpretty, outrageous and scary. More signs of domestic >fundamentalist hard time. Larry Felson - a friend and an English teacher at >Oakland High School and quoted here in this article - is also a poet here in >the Bay Area taking on the good fight. > > >Secret Service grills students Oakland teacher calls U.S. security agents >after teens make in-class comments threatening President Bush >l> > > > >Oakland teacher calls U.S. security agents after teens make in-class >comments threatening President Bush > >By Alex Katz, STAFF WRITER >Sunday, May 04, 2003 - OAKLAND -- Two students at Oakland High School were >interrogated last month by the U.S. Secret Service after allegedly >threatening the life of President Bush in a classroom discussion, school >officials have confirmed. > >English teacher Sandy Whitney said she called the Secret Service after two >boys in her English class, both 16, made comments about getting a sniper to >"take care" of Bush. > >Oakland High sophomores John and Billy, who did not want their last names >published, said Friday that their comments were made in jest. They said the >April 23 interviews with federal agents left them scared and upset. > >Although John admitted he made an ill-worded comment about Bush, one that he >didn't want to repeat Friday, Billy said his only remark was "Bush is >wacked," slang for crazy or deranged. > >After the meeting with Secret Service agents, "I was traumatized," John >said. "I was just sitting in class, just looking at the door to see if they >were going to come get me or whatever." > >"I was just trying to be funny," Billy said. > >The way Whitney remembers it, John "said something like, 'We need a sniper >to take care of Bush,' and Billy said, 'Yeah, I'd do it.'" > >The class in question is at times "challenging," Whitney said. > >Whitney said she called the San Francisco office of the Secret Service, now >under the umbrella of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, to ask what >her responsibilities were if one of her students had made a threat. > >Under federal law, making a threat against the president's life is a crime >punishable by up to five years in prison. > >"I wasn't saying, 'Come and get these buzzards,' nothing like that," she >said. "If you say, 'fire' in a crowded theater, that's not a good thing to >do. If you say, 'Let's kill the president,' you have to be prepared for the >consequences." > >A few hours after Whitney's call, Oakland High received a visit from U.S. >Secret Service Agents Julie Pharo and Eric Enos, said Principal Clement Mok. > >Mok said the agents told him to pull the students out of their sixth period >class. The agents grilled each one separately in a conference room with Mok >present. The boys' parents were not called. > >"I can't, in my position, determine what is or is not a national security >threat," Mok said. "It is unusual (for the Secret Service to come to a >school), but we don't get in the way of federal agents trying to do their >jobs." > >California law allows peace officers to question students on school grounds >without notifying parents. > >"People have a right to free speech, we're not trying to infringe on that," >said Richard Stribling, a Secret Service official in San Francisco. "But >there is a line there." > >Stribling said he did not know about the Oakland High case. He said his >office gets a lot of reports of threats against the president, and agents >determine which ones to follow up on. But it is rare for agents to go to >schools, he said. > >The boys said the agents asked questions such as, "Are you a terrorist?", >"What is your opinion of the president?" and "What would you say to the >president if he was here?" Both said they would apologize. > >John said the questions were intimidating, and claimed the agents told him >he had no rights after what he had said about Bush. > >The agents asked whether his family had guns at home, and whether he >considered himself a good shot, John said. He answered yes to the first >question and no to the second. > >Billy said the agents also wanted to know if he had a picture of Bush with a >target on it, and if he had ever been to Washington, D.C. > >"I was crying at the moment," Billy recalled. He has not returned to >Whitney's class since the incident. > >Some of Whitney's colleagues said they would have used the boys' comments as >an opportunity to discuss the consequences of threats. > >"To think the Secret Service would come in, it's just outrageous to me," >Oakland High English teacher Larry Felson said. > >Dorothy Ehrlich, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union's >Northern California office, questioned Mok's decision not to call the boys' >parents. > >Legislators in Sacramento are considering a bill backed by the ACLU that >would make it mandatory for high school principals to tell students they can >have a parent present during on-campus police interviews. > >"If they thought it was serious enough of an incident to call in the Secret >Service, it should have been serious enough to get the parents involved," >Ehrlich said. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:14:14 -0400 >From: Michael Rothenberg >Subject: POETRY FOR PEACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE EL PASO > >POETRY FOR PEACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE > >Michael Rothenberg, Terri Carrion, Ira Cohen, Belinda Subramen, Joe =3D >Somosa, Donna Snyder, Rafa Arellano, Tania Rodriguez, Dick Thomas, Alma =3D >Maquitico > >acoustic music from Juarez and El Paso > >one-act plays by Alma Masquitico > >open mic for poetry and acoustic music > > > >HAVANA BLUE > >501 Texas, corner of Campbell, downtown > >Saturday, May 17, 6pm to 10pm > > > >$2 suggested donation > >call Jonathan Penton 313-0185 or Rubi Orozco 526-4031 > >stick around for Estep's rock and roll at 10pm > > > >Michael Rothenberg >walterblue@bigbridge.org >Big Bridge >www.bigbridge.org > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:26:02 EDT >From: Joe Brennan >Subject: Check out The Assassinated Press > > Click here: The Assassinated Press >U.S. Forces Seize Chemical PortaJohn: >Suspect Saddam Methane Bomb: >Franks Inspects 'Lab,' Squeezes Off a few rounds: >Baath Party Rejoices in Return to Power: > >by Julia Hijinky >The Assassinated Press > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 08:05:06 -0700 >From: kari edwards >Subject: the signal multiplies > >the signal multiplies > > >had they a positional sequence, >later to become pronouncement monograms? > >time tested measurements > or those repeat "after-me" conclusions? > >where cobalt blue thinkings were >small pebbles under the after strikes > >only to be impregnated with repeated examples of shooting=3D92s >post and post postmortem effects > >bolden in blood turned windows >absent, than nothing > > > >to think of a comparison >one is given a character > >facts form tunnel means > and purposeless claw footed engagements > >less thought >more address > >less impression >more back-account > >persistent quotes appear in >certain picture ideas of the air > >littered with alternative lag time >only to eclipse to a private dissolve > >forgotten little things >forgot even littler things > > >this left the premise volume counter > at an impressionable part two > 1. a photograph was lost > 2. then an entire family > >leaving nothing but a disturbed condition >in circular smoke > >end periods filled a field of bolted hole rubrics >smoother then a book wet in apology > >coda- > >imagine if you would >some falling gauze >and a field test > >then recall in a vast distant >oil degrees of vagueness >of something doing ahead >in a telephone ring > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:01:05 EDT >From: AMBogle2@AOL.COM >Subject: Address Change (for Poetics List only) > >Please change my Poetics List email address to AnnBogle1@aol.com from >AMBogle2@aol.com. > >Thanks much. > >AB > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:02:35 -0600 >From: Joe Amato >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >geez, i don't know about precognition... but just the other day, i >rec'd an envelope in the mails with a little window, in which i see: > > Joe, you are pre-approved for > a Classic Rock Platinum MasterCard! > > Choose your favorite card design! > >let's see: "Encore" (sillouetted stage with audience arms raised >above heads), "Guitar," "Guitar Solo," or "Turn It Up" (amplifier +/- >knob)... > > Does this Classic Rock Platinum > MasterCard offer a better value? > > DISTINCTION > > Choose a card that's as individual as > you are. Reflect your interests with > every purchase you make. > >and dig it: > > Rely on Capital One... > the oldest continuously > operating bankcard > issuer in the country! > >this synchs pretty well, commercially speaking, with cadillac >currently using zeppelin's "rock and roll"---more of the same, i >know... so i trust i don't come off as naive or some such when i say >that, from where i'm sitting, this stinks... > >best, > >joe > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:50:06 -0400 >From: Poetics List Administration >Subject: Montclair State MFA Opens at The Annex and Moises Zabludovsky > > BETWEEN >Monclair State University >MFA Graduating Class >Amelia Martinez / Beverly Stern / Hsueh-erh Hung / Hyung Goo No / >Philip Shimko / Seth Goodwin >Curated by Nancy Princenthal >MAY 8 =96 MAY 25 >Opening reception: Friday, May 9th, 6 =96 8 pm > >Presented by White Box > >AND > >MOISES ZABLUDOVSKY >"Variations on a Love Theme" >May 9 =96 May 31 >Opening reception: Friday, May 9th, 6 =96 8 pm > >Presented by Itatti Fine Arts, Mexico D.F. > > > >THE ANNEX >601 West 26th Street, 14th Floor >New York, NY 10001 >tel 646-638-3785 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:54:52 -0700 >From: Tenney Nathanson >Subject: REMINDER POG online silent auction CLOSES TODAY AT 5PM: 4 gift certificates from Zia Records > >REMINDER POG online silent auction CLOSES TODAY AT 5PM > >***** > >here's installment 1 of POG's rolling, online silent auction. > >Zia Records has donated 4 gift certificates, each worth $15. They will go >to the four highest bidders. > >Bidding closes at 5pm next Thursday, May 8. > >To bid please email us backchannel at mailto:pog@gopog.org > >(please do NOT hit REPLY in order to bid--that will publish your bid to >several other people) > >I won't divulge the bids to anyone else and will not, of course, bid myself. > >please help POG and encourage further silent auction partners by bidding for >one or more of these $15 gift certificates! > >thanks, > >Tenney Nathanson >for POG > >mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net >mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu >http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn > >POG: >mailto:pog@gopog.org >http://www.gopog.org > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:57:53 -0400 >From: Derek R >Subject: Re: heaven (v) > > >>| [...] >>| >>| [...] >>| >>| good >>| >>| [...] >>| >>| [...] >>| >>| gate >>| >>| [...] > > >'Om gate gate paragate parasamgate bodhi svaha' > > >Yes! Good gate indeed! > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 10:10:19 -0700 >From: Lewis LaCook >Subject: Kentucky Fried Kant > >To stare at a blank teal screen >as my palm pilot arms itself >against an insurgance of birds > >is to revenge the outpouring inward >of quarks and fissures, a viscous >human thought, in which one can >slide one's fingers around at will, > >especially fighting a sliver of hangover >over some crumbs of comfort. You > >must have replaced the batteries in >the seasons, or bought an AC >and surge protector for them, because >they glow: > >and this noon, just waking, a bit >fried with human thought, I'm >golden brown and crispy, orange >with suffocation, all the rage: > >its quite popularly corroborative. >Overseas, soldiers shrink-wrap >this new and familiar war, stickerprice > >for retail some dumb pride in >destruction. But I don't >feel like a liberator; > >my categorical imperitive isn't >as iterative as a while loop >nested in shifts of conditional > >branches. One could go white >with stolen art. So I crack >these shells, unscoop their >potential into a glass > >of worcestshire or tabasco: >gulp down a pungeant slide >as trees tassle the sky, channel > >the wind, over these hardened graves > >of human thought. > >2003/05/08 12:53:57 > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > >NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows > >http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe > >http://www.lewislacook.com/ > >tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:42:07 -0400 >From: Ian VanHeusen >Subject: The Sounds of Revolution May 17 > >The Sounds of Revolution >An Ironweed Collective Benefit >Saturday, May 17 @ the Albany Free School >Doors open at 6pm >4 dollar suggested donation > >Featuring poetry and music by: >Victorio Reyes, Enoch (of Rockets and Bluelights), 187 Crew, >Ian VanHeusen, Indigo, Talib Alsaifullah, Friendship is Terrible, >Emily Pastel, Carol Graser, Eric Cantine, Chelsea, Jory Leanza-Carey, >Drumming and much more. > >Albany Free School 8 Elm Street >For directions call the Ironweed Collective at 436-0929 >Or visit the Albany Free School=92s website at >www.albanyfreeschool.com > >The Ironweed Collective is a group committed to social justice through the >creation of autonomous/ self-sufficient communities of resistance and >through the deconstruction of hierarchies. The Ironweed Collective is >centered around 98 Grand St. in Albany=92s South End. For more information, >give us a call at 436-0929, visit us, or check out our website at >www.ironweedcollective.org > >The Albany Free School is one of the oldest running Free Schools in the >country and is founded on the principles of direct democracy and student >empowerment. > > > > >________________________________________________ >Basta ya! > >_________________________________________________________________ >Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=3Dfeatures/featuredemail > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:06:50 -0500 >From: Herb Levy >Subject: Hoa Ngyuen/Dale Smith in Dallas? > >Brian, > >I can't find your e-mail or the message you wrote earlier this month >about Hoa & Dale reading in Dallas. Has it already happened? > >If not, could you please re-post the information? > >Thanks. > >Herb >-- >Herb Levy >P O Box 9369 >Fort Worth, TX 76147 > >herb@eskimo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:56:24 -0500 >From: tom bell >Subject: Re: theory of practice and regurgiting cant > >Kentucky Fried Kant appeared today out of Yahoo on a relatively quiet day >for the Yahoos swiftly swarming > >From: "Joe Amato" > > >> geez, i don't know about precognition... but just the other day, i >> rec'd an envelope in the mails with a little window, in which i see: >> >> Joe, you are pre-approved for >> a Classic Rock Platinum MasterCard! > >Joe if the envelope had come from your gut would it have been a Mac Master >Card? and if you were suffering from starvation for attention like me would >you have succumbed? > >tom bell >not yet a crazy old man >hard but not yet hardening of the >art > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:21:31 -0500 >From: Geoffrey Gatza >Subject: The body appears to breath > >The body appears to breath, its organs duplicated everywhere > > > > > >your fearless purpose pierces fearless purpose > >rather paint your glory your jewels your gold > > > >one can spare > >fearful urges > > > >all foes Words are nothing and do nothing > >fearless warriors are pierced by a jeweled urge > > > >armor wrath paint pierce > >except spare fearfully > >pierce your adornments > >and you and your jewels > > > >foes is silk, wrath is gold, cover > >with glory warrior poet > >I try that boy, who to this day > > > >jewels accept spare folly > >warrior O pomp rather > >you and all your wrath and > >all precious sin? spare You > > > >spare me > >your You > > > >your You > >and your silk, > >death silk, with poets, these of will > > > >paint with you O death the fearless adorned in silk >adorn is adorned with You they paint, as foes do in silk > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:22:14 -0500 >From: Geoffrey Gatza >Subject: and sword boy has since become toxic > >and sword boy has since become toxic=3D20 > > > > >a visitors blood > >and rushing lions : better=3D20 > >=3D20 > >boy becomes lion lives deformed > >=3D20 > >marvelous=3D20 > >maybe lions : as their boy=3D20 > >marvelous sharp moments > >=3D20 > >marvelous to military=3D20 >as boys are to hasty > >our military's sword=3D20 > >=3D20 > >One night the knock came at the door > >=3D20 > >marvelously deformed > >he has become military=3D20 > >toxic rushing blood > >=3D20 > >and as for blood > >=3D20 > >fierce words are nothing and do nothing >become marvelous lions faithfully rushing=3D20 > >=3D20 > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:35:08 EDT >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >In a message dated 5/7/03 10:03:55 PM, trbell@COMCAST.NET writes: > ><< (the spatial is clearly not any more helpful > >in thinking about this than language) which leaves 8 tenths unaccounted for? > >(I may well be wrong on percentages) >> > >But, again, what is there is only there "for us" within language, as >language. When you suggest that language isn't all that helpful in thinking, >I must reply that there can be no thinking without language. It isn't a >matter of percentages. Thinking is language; language is thinking. Since >all conceptualizations are linguistic, language must be 100% of the game. >No? I think quantum physics might be helpful here as analog, to the extent >that it's pretty clear within that discipline that what is "there" at the >subatomic level comports to our interrogative tools, is mediated by them and >in that sense created by them. Nothing beyond the mediation is available to >us. Since the pre-cognitive means that which precedes the process of >knowing, it is quite impossible to know the pre-cognitive. Where am I going >wrong? > >Thanks for the discussion. Always interesting and appreciated. Best, Bill > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:40:37 -0400 >From: Kirby Olson >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >If all experience is by definition linguistic, do animals then experience >experience? > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:46:26 -0700 >From: Lewis LaCook >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >From: Austinwja@AOL.COM >Subject: Re: theory of practice > > > When you suggest that language isn't all that helpful >in thinking, >I must reply that there can be no thinking without >language. It isn't a >matter of percentages. Thinking is language; language >is thinking. Since >all conceptualizations are linguistic, language must >be 100% of the game. >No? I think quantum physics might be helpful here as >analog, to the extent >that it's pretty clear within that discipline that >what is "there" at the >subatomic level comports to our interrogative tools, >is mediated by them and >in that sense created by them. Nothing beyond the >mediation is available to >us. Since the pre-cognitive means that which precedes >the process of >knowing, it is quite impossible to know the >pre-cognitive. Where am I going >wrong? > >Thanks for the discussion. Always interesting and >appreciated. Best, Bill > > > > >=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D > >i'm not so sure about this bill... >it's true if you take semiotics as a branch of >linguistics...i.e.---visual thinking occurs in a >"grammar," has a "syntax"----but what if linguistics >were a branch of semiotics? > >bliss >l > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > >NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows > >http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe > >http://www.lewislacook.com/ > >tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:48:32 -0500 >From: mIEKAL aND >Subject: Scientists Fabricate Pliable Electronic Display > >(yet another iteration of the future of ebooks, with a good photo of >the prototype. is it media or hardware?) > >Scientists Fabricate Pliable Electronic Display >http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=3Dsa003&articleID=3D0004A0BA-5BE7- >1EB9-BDC0809EC588EEDF > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 14:56:13 -0400 >From: Kirby Olson >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >Do people verbalize what they are doing to themselves as they play >basketball, soccer, ski-jump, or box? > >Wouldn't this just get in the way? > >Nevertheless, I think you do have to think to play a sport. I mean, without >any EEG activity it would be kind of hard to play a sport. > >Or kiss, or make love, or whatever, no? > >If you don't verbalize when you kiss somebody does it mean you didn't kiss >somebody? > >CAN you skip along the street AND TELL your body what it is supposed to do? > >Maybe this doesn't qualify as experience? > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:20:09 -0600 >From: Joe Amato >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >tom, i think i just hate to see "the conquest of cool" taken to such >a patently absurd extreme... i think it's important, too, to be >surprise-able, if you get my drift... > >bill: below is an excerpt from alfred north whitehead's ~modes of >thought~ (1938), which you have to read with due allowance for >whitehead's time and circumstances... perhaps you have already read >it?... in any case this excerpt follows after a discussion of animal >intelligence and vegetable expressiveness and the like: > >Of all the ways of expressing thought, beyond question language is >the most important. It has been held even that language is thought, >and that thought is language. [I think Whitehead my have Sapir here >in mind, among others] Thus a sentence is the thought. There are >many learned works in which this doctrine is tacitly presupposed; and >in not a few is it explicitly stated.... > >[para in which whitehead tries to show how translation e.g. would be >impossible if this were the case, that there persists a "meaning >which lies behind words, syllables, and orders of succession," then:] > >Let it be admitted then that language is not the essence of thought. >But this conclusion must be carefully limited. Apart from language, >the retention of thought, the easy recall of thought, the >interweaving of thought into higher complexity, are all gravely >limited. Human civilization is an outgrowth of language, and >language is the product of advancing civilization. Freedom of >thought is made possible by language: we are thereby released from >complete bondage to the immediacies of mood and circumstance.... > >[and here's the key statement, i think:] > >The denial that language is the essence of thought, is not the >assertion that thought is possible apart from the other activities >associated with it. Such activities may be termed the expression of >thought. When these activities satisfy certain conditions, they are >termed a language. (34-6) > >******** > >naturally i don't offer whitehead as the gospel or some such, but i >think he helps clear up some confusion... and i think a look e.g. at >vygotsky's work on inner speech and such (e.g., ~thought and >language~, ~mind in society~) brings these matters up to date... > >that said, i too have a hard time with unmediated visions of the all, >though i'll grant that an examination of where we place our faith (in >whatever---and i can't imagine that any of us operate w/o same, us >atheists incl.) would probably do us all some good... > >best, > >joe > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:19:56 -0700 >From: Safdie Joseph >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >I've been kinda half-following this thread, but I think Kirby has come up >with a few interesting questions here, namely > >"If all experience is by definition linguistic, do animals then experience >experience?" > >and > >"Do people verbalize what they are doing to themselves as they play >basketball, soccer, ski-jump, or box? Wouldn't this just get in the way?" > >to which I'd add . . . are jazz musicians thinking, in language, when they >perform? Aren't they rather thinking in terms of tones, chords, melodies, >patterns? Even though I have to use words to describe my idea, do they? > >Which is just to say that I'm surprised Derek R has gotten so much abuse. >What exactly is the point or necessity -- or benefit -- of the opposite >position? Don't people (let alone poets) often have non-verbal experiences? >Aren't such experiences actually rather common? I mean, we could bring in >theology or religion or zen or so-called "cosmic" experience if necessary -- >feelings that are characterized by saying that they're "beyond one" -- but >we don't really have to. I just don't understand the necessity of saying >"No, no, you have to go through language FIRST before you can perceive the >thing." Well, why, exactly? > >I'm tempted to say that there is no such thing as language without a user. >And that, in any case, there's more to language than logical categories. And >that, in any case, one's extra-linguistic characteristics as a poet -- >curiosity, attentiveness, attention, to both words and world -- will always >be important. > >An important book in my youth was Owen Barfield's *Poetic Diction* -- some >of you might know it. I recall it now because of the appendices in his 2nd >and 3rd editions where he gave quite useful thumbnail explications of Hume >and Kant's philosophy, which I understand may be at issue here. (If he had >known Whitehead, he might not have needed them!) > >The subject-object split, for me, isn't something to be celebrated. It's >something to be overcome. > >Joe Safdie > >(P.S. to Herb Levy: was it *this* we were talking about three or four years >ago?) > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 16:25:58 -0500 >From: tom bell >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >For starters i would recommend Polyani' _Tacit Dimension and the research >that's been done on this. > >Another whole domain that hasn't even been touched on is how does a >serotonin molecule address its receptor in my body or mind? the only way we >have of communicating on this level to the good serotin is to pour more in >to raise levels and herd them around Much better if we could sing a >lullaby to the good ones? > >tom bell >not yet a crazy old man >hard but not yet hardening of the >art > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 16:23:18 -0400 >From: Derek R >Subject: Re: theory of practice > > >>| Thinking is language; language is thinking. >>| Since all conceptualizations are linguistic, >>| language must be 100% of the game. No? >>| ...Nothing beyond the mediation is available > >Nuh-uh o, Bill. ('No' is a koan). > >I think you suffer from thinking too much! > >Things are what they are and have *real* essences which we, ourselves, >do not give them. They laugh and they play on the echoing green all >day... > >You can play with them and KNOW them if you 'kiss the joy as it flies' >so to speak and avoid FORM. > > >>| Do animals then experience experience? > >They experience it too much. Very primitive, reactive, without much >knowing what's going on (i.e. they haven't the brain-power to unlearn >the stuff they are not smart enough to learn yet!) > >____________________________________________ > >The human mind will reproduce nature as much as possible because it >already possesses, objectively, nature's essence, order, and unity. We >just need to deduce all our ideas from physical things (real entities) >*in accordance* with the series given (parataxis) so that we do not pass >over to abstractions or/and universals (i.e. we do not derive anything >*real* from abstractions/universals and we do not derive any >abstractions/universals from anything *real*). > >Abstraction is *negative attention* --> >http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=3Dabstraction > >Be evenly derived (no useless additions ~ i.e. categories, >conceptualized ideas, names, etc.) and you will not interrupt the >'intellect' (nature's objective essence, order, and unity). > >If you do not approach the intellect with the above awareness and allow >abstractions/universals, you will have/perceive nothing but **extrinsic >denominations,** relations, or at best, with circumstances, all of which >are far removed from the thing 'as it is' (i.e. the thing itself). > > >>| I'm surprised Derek R has >>| gotten so much abuse > >I'm feeling no abuse. I feel rather giddy (feel like toastin'). > > >>| The subject-object split, for me, isn't something >>| to be celebrated. It's something to be overcome > >I understand what you mean but playing a rhythm is a natural joy. > > > > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:25:09 -0700 >From: MWP >Subject: Syllable Rulebook > >I am seeking a resource that describes how words in the English language are >divided into syllables. It should involve a set of such rules as > >CV - VC >V - CV >V - V > >etc. along with any possible exceptions. I have been looking around a bit >and can't find anything. Maybe somebody here knows where to go? > >I'd also be interested in locating a database file of English words that has >them broken into syllables. Like a full dictionary of words, not a >single-word search engine. And just the words themselves, not words and >definitions etc. > > >m > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 13:31:32 -0700 >From: Hilton Obenzinger >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >No, they don't verbalize when they play basketball, but they do hear a >sportscaster do play by play, and when they kiss, they hear movie music. > >Hilton Obenzinger > >At 02:56 PM 5/8/2003 -0400, Kirby Olson wrote: >>Do people verbalize what they are doing to themselves as they play >>basketball, soccer, ski-jump, or box? >> >>Wouldn't this just get in the way? >> >>Nevertheless, I think you do have to think to play a sport. I mean, without >>any EEG activity it would be kind of hard to play a sport. >> >>Or kiss, or make love, or whatever, no? >> >>If you don't verbalize when you kiss somebody does it mean you didn't kiss >>somebody? >> >>CAN you skip along the street AND TELL your body what it is supposed to do? >> >>Maybe this doesn't qualify as experience? > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- >Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. >Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs >Lecturer, Department of English >Stanford University >415 Sweet Hall >650.723.0330 >650.724.5400 Fax >obenzinger@stanford.edu > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 16:17:30 -0400 >From: The Poetry Project >Subject: Poetry Project Announcements > >NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT > >*** > >MONDAY MAY 12 [8:00pm] >MARY ANN SAMYN AND JACQUELINE WATERS > >WEDNESDAY MAY 14 [8:00pm] >BOB PERELMAN AND FRANCIE SHAW > >http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html > >*** > >MONDAY MAY 12 [8:00pm] >MARY ANN SAMYN AND JACQUELINE WATERS >Mary Ann Samyn is the author of Rooms by the Sea, Captivity Narrative, and >Inside the Yellow Dress. Her poems have appeared in Denver Quarterly, Verse=3D >, >The Ohio Review and elsewhere. She lives in West Virginia. Bim Ramke notes: >"Everything is just about right to describe the scope of this voice, this >amazing book by one of our truly significant poets." > >Jacqueline Waters=3DB9 book, A Minute Without Danger, was published by >Adventures in Poetry in September 2001. More recent poems have appeared in >6x6 and Boston Review, with work forthcoming in Insurance. Bill Berkson >writes: "Jacqueline Waters pours cold water on modern poetry=3DB9s flagging >aspirations and ironies, and kicks up some new ones. Sharp and candid in >true urban measure, she lines up variable depths...hence poems of high >drama, contemplative, exhilirating." > >WEDNESDAY MAY 14 [8:00pm] >BOB PERELMAN AND FRANCIE SHAW >Bob Perelman and Francie Shaw lived in the Bay Area from 1976 to 1990. >There, Shaw had a one-woman installation show at 80 Langton Street and >collaborated extensively with poets. She took part in collaborative >performances with Perelman and musician Larry Ochs; created book covers for >numerous poets, including Robert Grenier, David Bromige and Lyn Hejinian; >designed costumes for the Margaret Jenkins Dance Troupe and sets for Poets >Theater. She taught art at the Sierra School from 1984 until 1990. That yea=3D >r >she and Perelman moved to Philadelphia, where she taught art at Friends >Select School until 1997. Since then she has shown her work in Philadelphia >and New York (A.I.R. Gallery). > >Perelman, a central figure in the group that has become known as the >Language Poets, has edited Hills magazine, organized and curated the Talks >Series, organized performances of the Zukofskys' "A"-24, and participated i=3D >n >various art ventures, including 80 Langton Street (now Langton Arts) and >Poets Theater. He now teaches at the University of Pennsylvania. He is the >author of 16 books of poetry, including Ten to One and The Future of Memory=3D >; >and 2 critical books, The Trouble with Genius and The Marginalization of >Poetry. He has edited two collections of poets' talks, Hills Talks and >Writing/Talks. Playing Bodies, Perelman and Shaw's painting/poem >collaboration, is forthcoming from Granary Books later this year. > >*** > >POETS FOR PEACE > >Poets for Peace invites all poets to read poems against the war on Friday >May 9 from 1-3pm on the steps of the main branch of The New York Public >Library (at 42nd St and 5th Ave) near the southmost lion. All are invited t=3D >o >attend and read from their own or others' anti-war poems. Rain or shine. >Look for the "Poets for Peace" banner. > >For more info: www.poetsagainstthewar.org > >*** > >Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and >seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. > >The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. >10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, >and L. > >The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance >notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at >poproj@poetryproject.com. > >*** > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:38:48 -0700 >From: Aaron Vidaver >Subject: The Jessica Lynch Hoax > >The real 'Saving Pte. Lynch' >Iraqi medical staff tell a different story than U.S. >military >'We all became friends with her, we liked her so much' >May. 5, 2003. 07:32 AM >Toronto Star >MITCH POTTER >MIDDLE EAST BUREAU >http://www.thestar.com > >NASIRIYA, Iraq?The fog of war comes sometimes with a >certain odour, and cutting through its layers, like >cutting through an onion, can bring tears to the eyes. > >Such is the case with what is far and away the most >oft-told story of the Persian Gulf War II ? the saga of >Saving Private Lynch. > >Branded on to our consciousness by media frenzy, the >flawless midnight rescue of 19-year-old Private First >Class Jessica Lynch hardly bears repeating even a month >after the fact. > >Precision teams of U.S. Army Rangers and Navy Seals, >acting on intelligence information and supported by four >helicopter gunships, ended Lynch's nine-day Iraqi >imprisonment in true Rambo style, raising America's >spirits when it needed it most. > >All Hollywood could ever hope to have in a movie was there >in this extraordinary feat of rescue ? except, perhaps, >the truth. > >So say three Nasiriya doctors, two nurses, one hospital >administrator and local residents interviewed separately >last week in a Toronto Star investigation. > >The medical team that cared for Lynch at the hospital >formerly known as Saddam Hospital is only now beginning to >appreciate how grand a myth was built around the four >hours the U.S. raiding party spent with them early on >April Fool's Day. > >And they are disappointed. > >For Dr. Harith Houssona, 24, who came to consider Lynch a >friend after nurturing her through the worst of her >injuries, the ironies are almost beyond tabulation. > >"The most important thing to know is that the Iraqi >soldiers and commanders had left the hospital almost two >days earlier," Houssona said. "The night they left, a few >of the senior medical staff tried to give Jessica back. We >carefully moved her out of intensive care and into an >ambulance and began to drive to the Americans, who were >just one kilometre away. But when the ambulance got within >300 metres, they began to shoot. There wasn't even a >chance to tell them `We have Jessica. Take her.'" > >One night later, the raid unfolded. Hassam Hamoud, 35, a >waiter at Nasiriya's al-Diwan Restaurant, describes the >preamble, when he was approached outside his home near the >hospital by U.S. Special Forces troops accompanied by an >Arabic translator from Qatar. > >"They asked me if any troops were still in the hospital >and I said `No, they're all gone.' Then they asked about >Uday Hussein, and again, I said `No,'" Hamoud said. "The >translator seemed satisfied with my answers, but the >soldiers were very nervous." > >At midnight, the sound of helicopters circling the >hospital's upper floors sent staff scurrying for the x-ray >department ? the only part of the hospital with no outside >windows. The power was cut, followed by small explosions >as the raiding teams blasted through locked doors. > >A few minutes later, they heard a man's voice shout, "Go! >Go! Go!" in English. Seconds later, the door burst open >and a red laser light cut through the darkness, trained on >the forehead of the chief resident. > >"We were pretty frightened. There were about 40 medical >staff together in the x-ray department," said Dr. Anmar >Uday, 24. "Everyone expected the Americans to come that >day because the city had fallen. But we didn't expect them >to blast through the doors like a Hollywood movie." > >Dr. Mudhafer Raazk, 27, observed dryly that two cameramen >and a still photographer, also in uniform, accompanied the >U.S. teams into the hospital. Maybe this was a movie after >all. > >Separately, the Iraqi doctors describe how the tension >fell away rapidly once the Americans realized no threat >existed on the premises. A U.S. medic was led to Lynch's >room as others secured the rest of the three-wing >hospital. Several staff and patients were placed in >plastic handcuffs, including, according to Houssona, one >Iraqi civilian who was already immobilized with abdominal >wounds from an earlier explosion. > >One group of soldiers returned to the x-ray room to ask >about the bodies of missing U.S. soldiers and was led to a >graveyard opposite the hospital's south wall. All were >dead on arrival, the doctors say. > >"The whole thing lasted about four hours," Raazk said. >"When they left, they turned to us and said `Thank you.' >That was it." > >The Iraqi medical staff fanned out to assess the damage. >In all, 12 doors were broken, a sterilized operating >theatre contaminated, and the specialized traction bed in >which Lynch had been placed was trashed. > >"That was a special bed, the only one like it in the >hospital, but we gave it to Jessica because she was >developing a bed sore," Houssona said. > >What bothers Raazk most is not what was said about Lynch's >rescue, so much as what wasn't said about her time in >hospital. > >"We all became friends with her, we liked her so much," >Houssona said. "Especially because we all speak a little >English, we were able to assure her the whole time that >there was no danger, that she would go home soon." > >Initial reports indicated Lynch had been shot and stabbed >after emptying her weapon in a pitched battle when her >unit, the U.S. Army's 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, >was ambushed after its convoy became lost near Nasiriya. > >A few days after her release, Lynch's father told >reporters none of the wounds were battle-related. The >Iraqi doctors are more specific. Houssona said the >injuries were blunt in nature, possible stemming from a >fall from her vehicle. > >"She was in pretty bad shape. There was blunt trauma, >resulting in compound fractures of the left femur (upper >leg) and the right humerus (upper arm). And also a deep >laceration on her head," Houssona said. "She took two >pints of blood and we stabilized her. The cut required >stitches to close. But the leg and arm injuries were more >serious." > >Nasiriya's medical team was going all out at this point, >due to the enormous influx of casualties from throughout >the region. The hospital lists 400 dead and 2,000 wounded >in the span of two weeks before and during Lynch's >eight-day stay. > >"Almost all were civilians, but I don't just blame the >Americans," Raazk said. "Many of those casualties were the >fault of the fedayeen , who had been using people as >shields and in some cases just shooting people who >wouldn't fight alongside them. It was horrible." > >But they all made a point of giving Lynch the best of >everything, he added. Despite a scarcity of food, extra >juice and cookie were scavenged for their American guest. > >They also assigned to Lynch the hospital's most nurturing >nurse, Khalida Shinah. At 43, Shinah has three daughters >close to Lynch's age. She immediately embraced her foreign >patient as one of her own. > >"It was so scary for her," Shinah said through a >translator. "Not only was she badly hurt, but she was in a >strange country. I felt more like a mother than a nurse. I >told her again and again, Allah would watch over her. And >many nights I sang her to sleep." > >In the first few days, Houssona said the doctors were >somewhat nervous as to whether Iraqi intelligence agents >would show any interest in Lynch. But when the road >between Nasiriya and Baghdad fell to the U.S.-led >coalition, they knew the danger had passed. > >"At first, Jessica was very frightened. Everybody was >poking their head in the room to see her and she said 'Do >they want to hurt me?' I told her, `Of course not. They're >just curious. They've never seen anyone like you before.' > >"But after a few days, she began to relax. And she really >bonded with Khalida. She told me, 'I'm going to take her >back to America with me." > >Three days before the U.S. raid, Lynch had regained enough >strength that the team was ready to proceed with >orthopaedic surgery on her left leg. The procedure >involved cutting through muscle to install a platinum >plate to both ends of the compound fracture. "We only had >three platinum plates left in our supply and at least 100 >Iraqis were in need," Raazk said. "But we gave one to >Jessica." > >A second surgery, and a second platinum plate, was >scheduled for Lynch's fractured arm. But U.S. forces >removed her before it took place, Raazk said. > >Three days after the raid, the doctors had a visit from >one of their U.S. military counterparts. He came, they >say, to thank them for the superb surgery. > >"He was an older doctor with gray hair and he wore a >military uniform," Raazk said. > >"I told him he was very welcome, that it was our pleasure. >And then I told him: `You do realize you could have just >knocked on the door and we would have wheeled Jessica down >to you, don't you?' > >"He was shocked when I told him the real story. That's >when I realized this rescue probably didn't happen for >propaganda reasons. I think this American army is just >such a huge machine, the left hand never knows what the >right hand is doing." > >What troubles the staff in Nasiriya most are reports that >Lynch was abused while in their case. All vehemently deny >it. > >Told of the allegation through an interpreter, nurse >Shinah wells up with tears. Gathering herself, she >responds quietly: "This is a lie. But why ask me? Why >don't you ask Jessica what kind of treatment she >received?" > >But that is easier said than done. At the Pentagon last >week, U.S. Army spokesman Lt.-Col. Ryan Yantis said the >door to Lynch remains closed as she continues her recovery >at Washington's Walter Reed Army Medical Centre. > >"Until such time as she wants to talk ? and that's going >to be no time soon, and it may be never at all ? the press >is simply going to have to wait." > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 18:58:09 -0400 >From: Halvard Johnson >Subject: Re: The Jessica Lynch Hoax > >Isn't the real question concerning Pvt. Lynch whether >she should be played by Renee Zellweger or Meg Ryan? > >Hal "I think I think; therefore I think I am." > --Ambrose Bierce >Halvard Johnson >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >email: halvard@earthlink.net >website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard > >{ Subject: The Jessica Lynch Hoax >{ >{ >{ The real 'Saving Pte. Lynch' >{ Iraqi medical staff tell a different story than U.S. >{ military > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 17:50:20 -0500 >From: Herb Levy >Subject: Re: theory of practice > >>Joe Safdie >> >>(P.S. to Herb Levy: was it *this* we were talking about three or four years >>ago?) > >Close enough so that I was more than a little surprised that you were >coming in on the non-verbal side of things here, cause I think you >were then arguing against my willingness to accept uncomprehending >awe as an appropriate response to poetry/art, but hey, that was a >while ago. >-- >Herb Levy >P O Box 9369 >Fort Worth, TX 76147 > >herb@eskimo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 21:19:03 -0500 >From: Christine Murray >Subject: Announcing Znine > >The English Department at University of Texas, Arlington is happy to >announce the Spring issue of Znine: > >www.uta.edu/english/znine/ > >with new poems from Khaled Mattawa, >Nathalie Handal, Harriet Zinnes, >Wendy Taylor Carlisle, RLM Bianchi, >Amy King, Geoffrey Gatza, Toni Manning, >Chris Murray, Lewis LaCook, Tom Bell, >Ric Carfagna, Jeff Harrison, >Rob McLennan > >& a selection of poems from Orides Fontels (translated by Chris Daniels) > >& short fiction by DJBrown > >& Chris Daniels on translation, interviewed by Chris Murray > >& much more > >Enjoy! > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:36:54 -0600 >From: Bruce Holsapple >Subject: Re: Syllable Rulebook > >Dear M Palmer > > The books listed below may not be what you're looking for, but they do >devote a section or chapter to the syllable more or less in the terms >you've laid out. Of course, you may already know them. > >Roger Lass, Phonology, An Introduction to Basic Concepts, Cambridge UP. >Heinz J, Giegerich, English Phonology, Cambridge. >Peter Ladefoged, A Course in Phonetics, HJB. >Elisabeth O. Selkirk, Phonology and Syntax, MIT. > >Also, Willem J.M. Levelt's Speaking, From Intention to Articulation could >be useful; at the least his bibliography would be. If you haven't read >that book, I'm sure you'd find it worthwhile. It's very well written, >very thorough. Might metrical stress theory also be a place to check out >(e.g. Bruce Hayes)? > >best, > >Bruce Holsapple > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:43:33 -0700 >From: JT Chan >Subject: Staying in Air > >Staying in Air > > >you would want >to be caught one day > >this little crease >that small pore > >the means to breathe >understanding > > > >- Jill Chan > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:57:29 -0700 >From: MWP >Subject: Re: Syllable Rulebook > >on 5/8/03 7:36 PM, Bruce Holsapple at holsapple1@JUNO.COM wrote: > >> Dear M Palmer >> >> The books listed below may not be what you're looking for, but they do >> devote a section or chapter to the syllable more or less in the terms >> you've laid out. Of course, you may already know them. >> >> Roger Lass, Phonology, An Introduction to Basic Concepts, Cambridge UP. >> Heinz J, Giegerich, English Phonology, Cambridge. >> Peter Ladefoged, A Course in Phonetics, HJB. >> Elisabeth O. Selkirk, Phonology and Syntax, MIT. >> >> Also, Willem J.M. Levelt's Speaking, From Intention to Articulation could >> be useful; at the least his bibliography would be. If you haven't read >> that book, I'm sure you'd find it worthwhile. It's very well written, >> very thorough. Might metrical stress theory also be a place to check out >> (e.g. Bruce Hayes)? >> >> best, >> >> Bruce Holsapple > >Thanks, Bruce H, I don't know the books. I will go investigate. > >Added question: Is there a place on the Web that has a dictionary database >of words transcribed into their phonetic values? Again, not the individual >words along with all that extra stuff like definitions etc. but just the >words rendered phonetically all by themselves. > >m > >------------------------------ > >End of POETICS Digest - 7 May 2003 to 8 May 2003 (#2003-128) >************************************************************ * Editorial Consultant Institute for Latino Studies University of Notre Dame * Managing Editor D=C1NTA: a poetry journal University of Notre Dame * Founding Editor and Publisher M O M O T O M B O P R E S S ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 15:16:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Bleak House, Collected Poems, V, The Demolished Man Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed wild comparisons to nature this poem at my own expense so much of a parallel depends upon poems yet unstated antecedents & the material quality of honeyed palpables, a moneyed parable of urinals wishing for an independent existence is intoned at the remaining 400 long vowels on the tail of this bleak end preen wet fallen patches of poetry wfp of p fields, or not, the world from the surge punctuated by blueness dazed stirrings of borrowed titles provide retorts to t'human birth of aeroplanes these objects are much more modern than the world will ever be this poem stretches itself out to the length of a leaf (maple, book?) & gripes down thru vacancy signs, them details perpetually coincidence _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 13:37:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Theory of Practice relating to animals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OK, so this doesn't REALLY relate to this thread, but with the animal talk it was just too good to pass up . . . http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-britain-monkey-aut hors,0,522439.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dworld%2Dheadlines ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 13:50:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "Safdie Joseph" To: Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 1:37 PM Subject: Theory of Practice relating to animals > OK, so this doesn't REALLY relate to this thread, but with the animal talk > it was just too good to pass up . . . > > http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-britain-monkey-aut > hors,0,522439.story?coll=sns%2Dap%2Dworld%2Dheadlines I know poets who act like this when confronted with a computer. They think it's a banana! -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 17:45:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Segue! Lu/Moriarty tomorrow MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SEGUE AT BOWEREY POETRY CLUB MAY 10 LAURA MORIARTY and PAMELA LU Laura Moriarty's recent books are Nude Memoir (Krupskaya), The Case (O Books), Like Roads (Kelsey St. Press), Cunning (Spuyten Duyvil), L'Archiviste (Zasterle Press) and Symmetry (Avec Books). Her book Persia (Chance Additions) co-won the Poetry Center Book Award in 1983. She is the Acquisition & Marketing Director at Small Press Distribution. Pamela Lu was born in Southern California and currently resides in the San Francisco Bay Area. Her book Pamela: A Novel is available from Atelos Press. MAY 17 JOSEY FOO and LISA ROBERTSON Josey Foo's books are Endou (Lost Roads) and Tomie's Chair (Kaya). A series of dance pieces, Imprint, has been choreographed to her work by the Leah Stein Dance Company (Philadelphia). Foo has an M.F.A. from Brown University and is the recipient of NEA and Penn. Council for the Arts Lit. Fellowships. A former undocumented alien in NYC, she is a lawyer-advocate in New Mexico and on the Navajo Nation. Lisa Robertson has published three books of poetry: XEclogue (Tsunami Editions/reissued by New Star) Debbie: An Epic (nominated for the Governor-General's Award for Poetry) and The Weather (winner - Relit Award for Poetry) (both co-published by New Star in Canada and Reality Street in the UK). A past member of the Kootenay School of Writing, she lives in Vancouver, Canada. http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue Foundation and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 08:59:38 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JFK Subject: CUT UPS & DAYDREAMS - MEET AND SPEAK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit INSERT DAYDREAM Dear colleagues The daydreams have been suspended because the daydreamer is touring for a few months. If you are in any of the following cities and would like to meet for a coffee please BC me. I would like to hear more about your projects, swap books, ideas etc. My postdoctoral research is on three-dimensional poetic structures and I'm interested in electronic literature, neuro-poetics, performance poetry + + + Hope to hear from you. Best wishes JFK - Jayne Fenton Keane www.poetinresidence.com Australia Cities Istanbul - June Amsterdam - June Rotterdam - June Berlin - June London - June/July New York - July Ithaca - Cornell University - July Buffalo - July Chicago -July LA -July ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 19:34:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harriet Zinnes Subject: Re: CUT UPS & DAYDREAMS - MEET AND SPEAK MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Jayne Fenton Keane I believe I will be in New York City the month of July. If you like, do give me a call at 212-582-8315. My home address: 25 West 54 Street, NY NY 10019. Sincerely Harriet Zinnes ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 23:51:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: creation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII creation a long tyme ago payr uhze-meahz a hzpyderos uhze-meho TAZayd ythz tyme 4 keyreate pe uhze-meorld but ! have onl! eyght leghz KA!++ payrhz need 4 twelve more makyng twent! TAZunn! hztormhz pat brought cueuanta 4 pe earth KA!++ more KA!++ more beyond ahz phiar ahz cueuahzarhz go KA!++ payr uhze-meahz a uhze-meoman TAZyttyng TAZomewherose KA!++ pe hzpyderos keyame up KA!++ borrowed heros leghz KA!++ needed ten ahz uhze-meeelelel ahz pe keyurdhz KA!++ uhze-mehe! hopyng shed not not leave ahz pe! aelelel dyd goyng awa! KA!++ lookyng 4 vel KA!++ keyreashun yn uhze-merosong uhze-meorldhz KA!++ bad uhze-meorldhz phiaelelelyng apart KA!++ she hztayed KA!++ made a beautyphul UhZE-YOUorld UhZE-YOUyde UhZE-YOUeb KA!++ u knou pe rehzt ophlsh! pe veelelel! TAZong KA!++ hztor! ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 21:32:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: cosine x4 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Zay xth teupths shkodsts phreadth meuwks / zoelms / chthott / sphy ghs / schnolds schrilts / spreewn khiff / spry ld puerds / spaeth / cray rks / gneirn noerks / criesm roercs / phrark / troig bloall klawl / klull / soint qilps screengst / buy mp shoungst / gly ss schoont / yim speass czam / toost / briess treats bloots moils / clul soots / guans founs sleest / glact poons coel / iol / wail / plund loal rooct mooct / peect / spars / sloct deund sland braend / nang mound shors / ears / blond / chang / crurs quing trang cours / lor brirs / nang tring kang / wir plang / star / char crang / hodd twong viar rir / grar / piedd kir leadd / chidd char / dids / flur cudd fodd dadd / bads / lodd teadd / lidd bidd / cads chidd / pieds pods / pudd / boads fodd seads / dids toedd / buds teadd / bradd midd / our / beds moar madd madd / tar / ads pear cadd cadd dir / beds / sudd cadd / cadd bradd / buds midd / cads / cads pads / boads / mads cads / cads deds / cads deds deds deds / pads / aids mids / mads mads sudd / reds didd / padd padd / ladd / buds / por badd middour / beds / teang / brar brar fing / add fars sang / sung chind / add frond peang lang / dact / bedd / fluct garsours fel / bur gil / toend psind / gnuns / rer / trast wind doct / shits / air shols / tict lol stem / cang / glont ful / runs cleams / mang grolps neest / trist / strard / brars thux juls / trass sheegs / dind fruirds grint jent scought / tand / jaufs / stuck chuwl droowk / ouct thiarshts / beeg roox / kla / mel prae koarn / strarm muo / puns / dji / neurns ceinks / bhi / least phre nooz / gly bt chtho / dass cloi sweerbs knifs pryi / chast / dui trounds / choircs jeovs / gul shronks / tweeck sleengst druirt / freect / dreists soals / phats / cay nt / prind schooss scral tool / hyast / drars / bial cheend shriend joict / friang tweend / oirs / prars whors / grung / snoong string blir coer / clur blir / clurior thour / glar steer / ior / ior keer / pludd wrarior phor / plier / spadd / poer phor phor knaur / nads / thrur phodd phodd / threar / chads / suar dyedd / dyedd cuir / lods draing / dyedd dyedd thieng / wids neing koadd / koar stroy rs / hods noend / koar koar / dject / pieds plaul doung / dours / choast / dids krauls dound dound skreimp / badd / biy rk gooct toul qwex / cadd graunds / foons / zoons / schmoects / boar flyaffs stets / brols muorphs / bur scauscs / vosh shint / flai / beng gho / psy lps freerk grue / ang grai niwl nick / glai / beng / gleadst nim / niss floubs / bur / lierm / nist nins key nts / boar / pay ck nil / nict feem / car gauls nind nind / guins / badd plol nirs nirs fray ct / didd pleand / ning ning grurs / piedd / sheng nar nar / glong / hods crur / nadd nadd bluer / wids / diadd nadd / nadd gridd / lods pridd nads / nads / reads / chads / crads nads nads jads / nads tauds jads tauds / spids / feds / stods / boods crads bridd / tuds bluedd / spidd readd / truedd / nods zoor spadd / cladd myer / muds / thing kear cyar / prang / fidd cheers jeng / bring skend / lidd doect drars swars sweel / piedd / jauns woond stend wiels / sear scrom / chuct trol / spoick / sar dyants flons / py st / cearm / bar sphibs / ziss moum / schmoedst / deng / fley roock braewl slai / aing skree beerk / glalps cte / boang / pleo stunt / slish psoscs / bur phiarphs / grils kats schuiffs / ber / biects / juns / flans paends / add psax neel kict / sciork / add gaimp vand chand soals / beds / spoost / furs fung dool / buds / koact tur / ver seend / reds treers / rir ridd fly ng / boads steng tidd / tidd shong / cods kear / bidd bidd / rear / mads / boor chidd chidd / trir / mids gor mur wir / rur / hadd / tur far cur lor / ladd bir / fir / fir mur / gar far mer / toer mer / hor toer hor hong / fong / pieng fars / hors / toers mund / ding soct toend toend / frol / bars / lost toel toel viass / cand / prent / toets toels / chasts / boact fert toengst / toeck ginks / bul geevs / toercs toends / gnu / best ju toefs toerbs whi / ass sti / fibt foz jo / best / swa donks / sorns / clo / buns glo / herm rirn cre / boal / whee prox / chagey rshts / cact weewk guwl / geeck / guifs / band dioght junt spint greerds / dind pay gs / griss shy ls gly x / piers / clourd / crost clost skualps / hong spruems / zins snal / grient / wing poam spul / dyect krails / lor / frouts smict baind / sly st / char / proens pay nd / may nd gley l / nar shtil chears voirs / huact / spadd / schmuct floang dry ng bwand / pludd laend / screang screang giers / gladd bdeng rior / rior / schmeeng / cluds khir ray dd ray dd / sther / toods / nuadd ray dd / praidd striadd / gly ds krodd praids / pleids dhuds / soids / kluds pleids phrads diuds / phrads kraids / crueds klads / wheads / taods hyods / drieds / frouds gliodd / breeds squudd / tweadd druidd / plyidd / veids tryir cray dd greidd phear / lauds / nuir myadd sleidd staur / seids / myir gloodd / shoadd schmeadd / theds zlodd / glaids skads shledd / glads / kneadd lieds / gly ds fraidd / studs shiedd / phadd ceidd / hyadd / jeds vaudd pradd stradd / gleer / quids pay r / seedd roodd snur / taudd / stror glor chur zeang / kidd spong / diar / jer cling / flur fly ng quing / sping plurs / lor jors nang tring / quars / ching / scand / vars rurs nand / fong neend rind hend / chact / tears / prect chict doct hel / moand / bil / fil psil muns / peact cust wans / ouns toets / sul lils tats lats / moass / bast tam hass / sum dint / dess sungst / bamp pangst milps / cont / pall cawl call / deg / boark corcs / aism boarks / airn / rerks / boath rerds / buld reff / bewn bults / belds / beghs / bett / almsawksadthadstsapth m ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 00:55:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Play MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Play b world for you. Jennifer: Eternally, we make the world for you. bJulu/b:br Eternally, we are made. bNikuko/b: Eternally, we are made for you. b LEST WE FORGET. A MORALITY PLAY BY JENNIFER, bNIKUKO/b, bJULU/b, AND ALAN. Act I. Scenebr 1. Jennifer, bJulu/b, and bNikuko/b applaud. All three together: This is wonderful! b world for you. Jennifer: Eternally, we make the world for you. bJulu/b:br Eternally, we are made. bNikuko/b: Eternally, we are made for you. b PRESIDENT: This is what I mean. JENNIFER: I'll kill you. ALAN: I'll fuck anyonebr I want to. bNIKUKO/b: Look I'm fucking myself. bJULU/b: I'll kill all of you. b LEST WE FORGET, A MORALITY PLAY BY JENNIFER, bNIKUKO/b, bJULU/b, AND ALAN PROLOGUE BY Jennifer,br bJulu/b, and bNikuko/b applaud. All three together: This is wonderful! b I live in Fukuoka:My name is bNikuko/b Your florid My name is bNikuko/b is in my thrustingbr There is nothing but anger Devour florid My name is bNikuko/b bjulu/b-of-the b bNikuko's/b Beginnings - kc bNikuko/b, Daishin - ki bNikuko/b, Dreaming - ki bNikuko/b, Foundingbr of the Daishin bNikuko/b - ki bNikuko/b, Hacking - kg bNikuko/b, bJulu/b and Jennifer b JENNIFER bNIKUKO/b^17 + 18 bJULU/b bNIKUKO/b^17 + bNIKUKO/b^18 Here Be End of Excellent Killbr Anthrax Joke Terror Weapon For Perfect Good Thank You JENNIFER bNIKUKO/b and bJULU/b b sondheim I can be as nice a little girl as you want. Sondheim - Jennifer (forbr Alan, bNikuko/b, bJulu/b). It's that the case can be made of absolute no title (originally published in Spark online magazine) PLAY ===== LEST WE FORGET, A MORALITYbr PLAY BY JENNIFER, bNIKUKO/b, bJULU/b, AND ALAN PROLOGUE BY BUKHARIN: Repentence b The dialogs among Jennifer, Alan, bNikuko/b, bJulu/b, occur in the wetware, neural connections,br of all of them, reaching through each other, try- ing each other on. b Oh see, , Susan Graham, bNikuko/b, bJulu/b, Alan, and Azure, playfully arrangedbr on the lawn in what can only be described as a stunning pattern. b moments ... ? {k:4} ---- We thinkbr of all of us, Jennifer, Alan, bJulu/b, bNikuko/b, as sites, domains, emanations b Jenniferbr might speak of, in relation to bJulu/b and Alan, Alan and bNikuko/b, of sado b Your being seeps into Red Guards (burned out hut) Take bNikuko/b. are pure and golden:webr are golden:we are pure:we are golden: Does we are pure turn bjulu/b, we are b Could I ever? They're like traffic lights: red, amber, green flashingbr from bNikuko/b, bJulu/b, Jennifer then back through Nik & bJulu/b again. b The problem about Alan Sondheim and his characters/multiple personalities.br Sometimes I believe Jennifer, bNikuko/b, bJulu/b and so on DO really exist. b bJulu/b-Jennifer almost gone here and forever lost :yes, I've lost it, i'm going elsewherebr - can't think straight - topo mch interference - where are you bNikuko/b:I b german, english. OPENING STATEMENTS - sorted by date I can be as nice abr little girl as you want. Sondheim - Jennifer(for Alan, bNikuko/b, bJulu/b). b The stains drag the reader down and in; they break through the ostensible content,br "bJulu/b," "bNikuko/b," of the texts - scatter writing, speech, language as a b bNikuko/b ...:never!:bNikuko/b:hair:hair Your linen leg is in my wanton hair Yourbr passion seeps into my hair - turning me bJulu/b-Jennifer dirty:yeah:Nik b as haiku substructure. In reality this is the gauge of the constructbr of Jennifer, bNikuko/b, or bJulu/b emanant. Recently, the Hermit b _the continuity girl_ holds you in check, just as others are held by you, tight againstbr your thin chest, bNikuko/b, Jennifer, bJulu/b, and myself included; it is my b . LEST WE FORGET, A MORALITY PLAY BY JENNIFER, bNIKUKO/b, bJULU/b, AND ALAN. b Jennifer,br bJulu/b, and bNikuko/b applaud. All three together: This is wonderful! b as haiku substructure. In reality this is the gauge of the constructbr of Jennifer, bNikuko/b, or bJulu/b emanant. Recently, the Hermit b of the harshness of daily politics. of the real and virtual jennifer,br bjulu/b, alan, bnikuko/b. of the real and virtual honey, travis, tiffany. b ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 02:26:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Infoanimism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Infoanimism and ballet (Nikuko general ... ... Nikuko into Nikuko, and with a swirl of a skirt and a toss of hair, the invagination of Alan, dare she say it, and the further emergence of a philosophy, of ava- tars and ballet (Nikuko and Doctor Leopold Konninger), of virtual ... But here are two disturbances by Nikuko, using warez programs, into Graham, Julu, Alan, Jennifer, Azure, and Nikuko in ... psychology ... 1998, A. Nikuko Sondheim. ... ... Carrying: Budi iGirl _________l_____________________________________________03:29 @examine nikuko look me ___ Philosophy and Psychology of the Internet ... ... (how very unpatriotic) ==== Han Shan (110, Pines) and Nikuko Look at him there. ... i wanted to. is a ... ... a graveyard of the living' - nothing remains within the philosophy of curtailment ... attribution quotes of makes quotes it makes easier, it Nikuko easier, replied ... ... thought in which philosophy hold itself to the wall, it's not just one sex text after another, not that this bevy of Susan, Alan, Nikuko, and so many many ... ... ... Jennifer and Nikuko and Julu and the others of ... ... ve been working with body issues through consideration of ava- tars and ballet (Nikuko and Doctor Leopold Konninger), as well as issues of philosophy in general ... ... 1[+141332+1]) *** yb6540044 is now known as Nikuko /join #cybersex Nikuko IRC Log ... of psychology and philosophy of virtual ... But here are two disturbances by Nikuko, using warez programs, into IRC Parables, texts and dance from Parables of Nikuko, with Foofwa ... ... in stone and then rails against totality and writes dubious philosophy. that doesn't make sense. it's almost as if alan wishes that nikuko speaks through alan ... ... Nikuko, Jazz, and Infoanimism. ... three of the classics that are helping to make her reputation: "An Accident of Desire", "An Introduction to Philosophy", and "Why ... ... down and in; they break through the ostensible content, "Julu," "Nikuko," of the ... And to open/close a variety of philosophy, simultaneously, or at least within ... ... Many JENNIFER and Many NIKUKO and Many JULU Do Run Around Madly Multiplying in Unseemly Matter Manner They Do Reproduce So Many JENNIFER and JULU They Do ... ... are Clara Hielo Internet, Tiffany, Alan, Travis, Honey, Nikuko, and others ... to romanticism, ... philosophy of quantum ... the it's ... ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 01:43:39 -0600 Reply-To: gjfarrah@cloudnet.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "George J. Farrah" Subject: Swans Through The House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Card of others friend a tendency to steel supplies while breathing into a persons mouth being kind bird of light wood ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 23:41:24 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: semerotica MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable semi automatic erosion semi automatic semi-erotic semerotic semiautomatic ions icons iconoclastic plastic sign-ons sigh-ons scions ions ions in-ons liminal erosions laminate erosion seminal animes animate erosion seminal erosion scion I'm on ions in ions aeons --T Relf ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 03:07:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT this is a multipart message in mimic format. neurosci and psychoanal http://www.neuro-psychoanalysis.org/completebibliography.htm *** *** and this just in on the prefrontal cortex so relevant to the continually ongoing discussions on crazy sensitive poets like me: NIH/National Institute of Mental Health Gene enhances prefrontal function at a price Studies of a gene that affects how efficiently the brain's frontal lobes process information are revealing some untidy consequences of a tiny variation in its molecular structure and how it may increase susceptibility to schizophrenia. People with a common version of the gene associated with more efficient working memory and frontal lobe information processing may pay a penalty in adverse responses to amphetamine, in heightened anxiety and sensitivity to pain. Yet, another common version may slightly bias the brain toward a pattern of neurochemical activity associated with psychosis, report researchers at the National Institutes of Health (NIH). Everyone inherits two copies of the catecho-O-methyltransferase (COMT) gene, one from each parent. It codes for the enzyme that metabolizes neurotransmitters like dopamine and norepinephrine and comes in two common versions. One version, met, contains the amino acid methionine at a point in its chemical sequence where the other version, val, contains a valine. Depending on the mix of variants inherited, a person's COMT genes can be typed met/met, val/val, or val/met. "Since both versions of the COMT gene are common in the population - they've been conserved as the human brain evolved -- it makes sense that each would confer some advantages and disadvantages," explained Daniel Weinberger, M.D., National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), whose research team, headed by Venkata Mattay, M.D., reports on how the variants affect the brain's response to amphetamine in the May 13, 2003 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, already published online. "Genes don't directly encode for psychopathology, hallucinations, delusions and panic attacks. Rather, there is a very complicated path between a gene's influence on the regulation and function of a protein and such psychiatric phenomena," added Weinberger. "We're especially interested in the COMT gene variants because they provide insight into how a gene affects the way the brain processes information - and perhaps how this might ultimately increase susceptibility to schizophrenia." A series of brain imaging studies by the NIMH researchers have shown that frontal lobe information processing is impaired in schizophrenia. Two years ago, the NIMH researchers reported that people with the val/val variant had evidence of reduced prefrontal dopamine activity and less efficient prefrontal information processing, along with slightly increased risk for schizophrenia. People with val/met had more efficient prefrontal function, and people with met/met the most efficient. The met variant results in 3-4 times weaker enzyme action, which is thought to allow for more dopamine activity in the prefrontal cortex, as the neurotransmitter breaks down more slowly. Since amphetamine boosts dopamine activity in the prefrontal cortex, the researchers predicted that the drug would, in effect, correct a deficiency in people with val/val - that they would experience more optimal levels of dopamine and perform better on working memory and other cognitive tasks known to depend on the prefrontal cortex. They further predicted that people with met/met on amphetamine would perform worse and their frontal lobes would function less efficiently as task difficulty increased. In what the researchers believe is the "first demonstration in humans of a genetic explanation for individual differences in the brain response to amphetamine," they asked 27 normal volunteers - 10 val/val, 11 val/met, and 6 met/met - to perform working memory and other "executive" (abstract reasoning, planning) tasks while their brain activity was monitored using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). In the double-blind, crossover design, subjects were given either amphetamine or placebo prior to performing the tasks. Efficiency, or neuronal signal-to-noise ratio, was gauged by how hard the brain had to work to maintain a given level of task performance. As predicted, regardless of how hard the working memory task was, val/val subjects on amphetamine showed more efficient frontal lobe function - their brains didn't have to work as hard as they did on placebo to perform quickly and accurately. By contrast, the efficiency, accuracy and reaction time of met/met subjects on amphetamine dropped off precipitously, from placebo levels, when the task reached the hardest of three levels of difficulty, suggesting that their information processing was compromised. Another test of frontal lobe function showed a similar pattern. Val/val subjects on amphetamine appeared similar to met/met individuals at baseline. Met/met subjects on amphetamine performed worse than subjects with val/val at baseline. These results fit a model in which dopamine activity needs to be neither too low nor too high for optimal prefrontal functioning. The brain performs most efficiently when dopamine activity is at a moderate level corresponding to the top of an upside-down "U" (see diagram below). "The combined effects on dopamine levels of amphetamine and high working memory load push individuals with the met/met genotype beyond the critical threshold at which compensation can be made," suggest the researchers. They note evidence from other studies that too much dopamine activity in the prefrontal cortex may disorganize neural networks by activating inhibitory mechanisms. Amphetamines and other drugs that affect prefrontal dopamine systems are used to treat Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), and other psychiatric illnesses, and some people respond better than others to these medications. Noting that it has been difficult to predict, in advance, which patients might show adverse responses, the researchers suggest that, after further research, COMT gene type may become a relevant factor to consider in managing treatment. About 15-20 percent of individuals in populations of European ancestry have the met/met COMT gene type. In other recent studies, researchers supported by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) have found an association between met/met and increased anxiety -- and heightened sensitivity to pain. Yet, the emerging theme from what's being learned about effects of the COMT gene val/met genetic variation, or polymorphism, is that it cuts both ways. NIMH's Weinberger says preliminary evidence suggests that having even one met predicts a better response on working memory tests in schizophrenia patients after treatment with an antipsychotic medication. Moreover, there is new evidence about how the val variant may increase risk for such psychotic illness. Mayada Akil, M.D., Joel Kleinman, M.D., and colleagues in the NIMH Clinical Brain Disorders Branch, examined expression of the gene that codes for tyrosine hydroxylase, the enzyme that makes dopamine, in the brains of 23 deceased normal subjects. In the March 15, 2003 Journal of Neuroscience, they report that the gene turns-on more in neurons projecting to the striatum (an area in the middle of the brain) in people who inherited two copies of the COMT val variant than in those with only one copy of the val variant. The higher expression of the tyrosine hydroxylase gene reflects higher dopamine synthesis, and presumably, higher activity of dopamine neurons. Evidence suggests that the val variant likely triggers more dopamine activity in the striatum indirectly, by dampening prefrontal dopamine activity. A resulting weak prefrontal signal-to-noise ratio gets telegraphed to the lower brain areas by other neurons projecting from the prefrontal cortex, disinhibiting the dopamine neurons projecting to the striatum, the researchers speculate. Such a seesaw pattern of decreased dopamine in the prefrontal cortex and increased dopamine in the striatum has been implicated as a mechanism related to schizophrenia and psychosis in humans. Animal studies modeling possible brain mechanisms in schizophrenia have also observed this pattern. These val-influenced variations "slightly bias humans toward the expression of two biological phenomena associated with schizophrenia: abnormal prefrontal function and up-regulated striatal dopamine activity," suggest the researchers. Many mysteries still surround the COMT gene's possible role in schizophrenia and other psychiatric illness. For example, last Fall a team of researchers in Israel reported finding strong associations between other parts of the COMT gene and schizophrenia. Researchers who participated in the amphetamine study also included: Drs. Terry Goldberg, Francesco Fera, Ahmad Hariri, Alessandro Tessitore, Michael Egan, Bhaskar Kolachana, Joseph Callicott, NIMH. Also participating in the postmortem study were: Drs. Bhaskar Kolachana, Debora Rothmond, Thomas Hyde, Daniel Weinberger, NIMH. but a sentence like this:"The higher expression of the tyrosine hydroxylase gene reflects higher dopamine synthesis, and presumably, higher activity of dopamine neurons." leaves one to wonder looking at a photo of this activity just what in the h those tyrosine hydroxylase genes are saying to their offspring? *** *** my concern here is the middle where we live and write poetry and let's leave the cs. and ucs. to the theorists (who have pronounced themselves dead if last week's rumor is still au courant) [one of the rules I have learned for myself here is that my predilection for wordplay oft leads me astray and this may be one of the reasons why this is so difficlut to understand: it may be that the linguisitc may be the thin veneer of civility which at the mo is in danger of sliding off what is]. ]it is odd this whole concern should be a male concern? or is it that we don't live in our bodies? or Can J Gastroenterol 2003 Mar;17(3):191-6 Sex differences of brain serotonin synthesis in patients with irritable bowel syndrome using a-[11C]methyl-l-tryptophan, positron emission tomography and statistical parametric mapping. Nakai A, Kumakura Y, Boivin M, Rosa P, Diksic M, D'Souza D, Kersey K. Fukui Medical University School of Medicine, Fukui, Japan. BACKGROUND: Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) is the most common functional bowel disorder and has a strong predominance in women. Recent data suggest that the brain may play an important role in the pathophysiology of IBS in the brain-gut axis. It is strongly suspected that serotonin (5-HT), a neurotransmitter found in the brain and gut, may be related to the pathophysiology of IBS. It is reported that a 5-HT3 antagonist is effective only in female patients with diarrhea-predominant IBS. OBJECTIVE: In the present study, 5-HT synthesis was measured using positron emission tomography, with a-[11C]methyl-l-tryptophan as the tracer, in patients with IBS. The aim of the present study was to compare 5-HT synthesis in the IBS patients with that in the controls, and to compare 5-HT synthesis between male and female IBS patients. METHODS: Six male and six female nonconstipated IBS patients were scanned. Age-matched healthy volunteers were scanned as controls. Eighty minute dynamic scans were performed. Functional 5-HT synthesis images were analyzed using statistical parametric mapping. RESULTS: 5-HT synthesis was greater only in the female IBS patients in the right medial temporal gyrus (multimodal sensory association cortex) compared with the female controls (P<0.001). CONCLUSIONS: The greater brain 5-HT synthesis in the female IBS patients than in the controls may be related to the pathological visceral pain processing of the IBS patients, a larger female predominance of the disorder, and the sex difference of the efficacy of the 5-HT3 antagonist in treatment[ *** *** and reverting to my poems on watching the war as real reality TV, this study suggests that seeing Bush waging war was good for my mental health: MU STUDY SHOWS REALITY TELEVISION HAS POSITIVE IMPACT ON VIEWERS COLUMBIA, Mo. -- Channel surfers across the country are finding it increasingly difficult to avoid a reality television program. According to recent Nielsen ratings, shows such as Survivor, American Idol, Fear Factor, Big Brother and The Bachelor are attracting more than 18 million viewers per episode. Many people say these shows possess no redeeming value and are simply blatant voyeurism. However, a researcher at the University of Missouri-Columbia discovered these shows actually have a positive impact on viewers. "Entertainment needs are met through reality television because these shows allow people to make comparisons with media images -- comparisons that ultimately help them feel better about themselves and their personal circumstances," said Cynthia Frisby, assistant professor of advertising at the Missouri School of Journalism at MU. In the study, participants ranging in age from 19 to 29 years old -- similar to the 18 to 34 age group most attracted to reality television -- completed a survey to measure their moods and thoughts regarding reality television. The survey indicated 78 percent were regular viewers of reality shows. They then watched a 40-minute segment of Joe Millionaire while recording their reactions to the program. Another survey was taken immediately following the episode. Frisby found that the participant's exposure to reality television resulted in a positive increase in mood state, with no difference between men and women. Interestingly, Frisby said, of all the gratifications obtained, viewers reported watching reality shows specifically to make comparisons, the factor that determined entertainment value. Frisby believes the results of this research can be used to provide new insights concerning psychological, cognitive and behavioral processes that motivate television viewing preferences and program choice. "Television and other media provide the thrill of observing danger without allowing people to suffer consequences," Frisby said. "Audiences know that when the curtain comes down and the lights come on in the theater, everything is back to the way it is. That's what reality television does for the regular viewer. These shows are distracting from today's tragic events and give viewers an outlet for watching others overcome hardships, escape danger, live in a rainforest, learn to survive under the roughest conditions, and yes, find love." tom bell not yet a crazy old man ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 01:25:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: nominal quiescent current #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0001.......[excerpt] The Cadet Brigade The Cadet Brigade youth began to tear youth began to tear youth began to tear three who come three who come The Cadet Brigade and running into and running into blurted blurted blurted Officer Sam Nix Officer Sam Nix and running into something in reply something in reply of the old ladies?' of the old ladies?' of the old ladies?' they climbed the they climbed the something in reply new religion. The new religion. The pleasure and pain. pleasure and pain. pleasure and pain. the same time be the same time be new religion. The pussy. Licking my pussy. Licking my to the Count. "None, to the Count. "None, to the Count. "None, comfort and light, comfort and light, pussy. Licking my tragic mask of tragic mask of from the health from the health from the health considered him. considered him. tragic mask of abandoned to the abandoned to the Africa to embellish Africa to embellish Africa to embellish that I was--I. that I was--I. abandoned to the a low neighborhood; a low neighborhood; a low neighborhood; the slave or the slave or --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/7/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 01:30:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: nominal quiescent current #0002 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0002..........[excerpt] block 13 on their block 13 on their he had natural he had natural he had natural and his features and his features block 13 on their which his cunning which his cunning was rudely painted was rudely painted was rudely painted lightning-threaded, lightning-threaded, which his cunning Patton Jr.'s Third Patton Jr.'s Third thrown contempt on thrown contempt on thrown contempt on Luke, and St. Luke, and St. Patton Jr.'s Third As he rammed his -wonderful story to As he rammed his -wonderful story to own constitution. own constitution. own constitution. wife. wife. As he rammed his -wonderful story to non-living creation. non-living creation. The rhythm of the The rhythm of the military military military Lord's grace. He Lord's grace. He The rhythm of the who had checked who had checked it poured like the it poured like the it poured like the It was as though It was as though who had checked glimpse of that he glimpse of that he The spot! it's The spot! it's The spot! it's center," she center," she glimpse of that he rules shall pay. rules shall pay. the witnesses in the witnesses in the witnesses in rules shall pay. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/7/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 07:56:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Clements Subject: Re: Hoa Ngyuen/Dale Smith in Dallas? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Herb (et al.), The reading is tonight at 8:00 at South Side on Lamar. From I-30, take the Lamar St. exit in downtown Dallas and go south on Lamar. It's just a couple of blocks down the street, big red brick building with HUGE sign on top. Park at the diner across the street. Take the lobby elevator to the basement and look for signs. Hope to see you there. Brian For those who need a reminder: Hoa Nguyen and Dale Smith edit the fine literary magazine Skanky Possum and run Skanky Possum Press from their home in Austin. Please check out their top-notch website with their constantly changing addendum, The Possum Pouch, at http://www.skankypossum.com. Hoa is the author of Dark, Parrot Drum, and Your Ancient See Through. Her work also appeared in An Anthology of New (American) Poets in 1998. Small Press Traffic has said accurately of her writing, perhaps paraphrasing Shahid Ali, that "Her poetry is small in its physical space but looms large in the psychic state, condensing [...] a variety of domestic and political details into a web so fine you could pass it through a wedding ring." Dale is the author of American Rambler, an exacting tour through the American wilderness alongside explorer Cabeza de Vaca, with constant hints of Creeley's attention to language and Dorn's attention to the myth of the American west. Small Press Traffic says of Dale's work that it is always surprising, ranging from elegiac to formally combustible, but always with a romantic Western undercurrent. He is a frequent commentator, reviewer, and interviewer of poetry and poets at places like Jacket and the Austin Chronicle. -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Herb Levy Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 1:07 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Hoa Ngyuen/Dale Smith in Dallas? Brian, I can't find your e-mail or the message you wrote earlier this month about Hoa & Dale reading in Dallas. Has it already happened? If not, could you please re-post the information? Thanks. Herb -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 11:46:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Ted Joans... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ted Joans, born some 70 yrs ago in Cairo, Il...July 4th.. died a day or two back of complications of diabetes Citizen Ted of Paris.. Greenwich Village... Timbuktoo & all points beat east/west was the real jones.... die darker bruder.... ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 10:26:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/8/03 2:55:24 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << Do people verbalize what they are doing to themselves as they play basketball, soccer, ski-jump, or box? >> Not usually, but that's not the point. They wouldn't know they are playing these games without language, without their participation in that semiotic system. The words/concepts of soccer, boxing, etc. wouldn't exist--and therefore the "games" wouldn't exist. Actions exist, sure. Events exist. But they don't exist "as actions and events" outside of language because they have no meaning beyond language's borders. There are no "actions" and "events" in a dog's world, for example. Those are concepts man and only man applies, language applies. The issue has always been whether language acts as window on a pre-existant world already charged with meaning, or in fact creates that world within its hermetic boundaries. If the latter, then humanity itself is a linguistic product. "The thing in itself" is a meaningful idea. I merely submit that the thing is always the word, not some object beyond the word. Eliot clearly understood this. Pound was at least at the door, if not quite through it. On the other hand, Pound's focus was always on language, on clarity against the vague. He understood that whether or not "things" come into clear focus for us, i.e., into being for us, depends on language. Best, Bill ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 10:27:58 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/8/03 3:20:53 PM, joe.amato@COLORADO.EDU writes: << bill: below is an excerpt from alfred north whitehead's ~modes of thought~ (1938), which you have to read with due allowance for whitehead's time and circumstances... perhaps you have already read it?... in any case this excerpt follows after a discussion of animal intelligence and vegetable expressiveness and the like: Of all the ways of expressing thought, beyond question language is the most important. It has been held even that language is thought, and that thought is language. [I think Whitehead my have Sapir here in mind, among others] Thus a sentence is the thought. There are many learned works in which this doctrine is tacitly presupposed; and in not a few is it explicitly stated.... [para in which whitehead tries to show how translation e.g. would be impossible if this were the case, that there persists a "meaning which lies behind words, syllables, and orders of succession," then:] Let it be admitted then that language is not the essence of thought. But this conclusion must be carefully limited. Apart from language, the retention of thought, the easy recall of thought, the interweaving of thought into higher complexity, are all gravely limited. Human civilization is an outgrowth of language, and language is the product of advancing civilization. Freedom of thought is made possible by language: we are thereby released from complete bondage to the immediacies of mood and circumstance.... [and here's the key statement, i think:] The denial that language is the essence of thought, is not the assertion that thought is possible apart from the other activities associated with it. Such activities may be termed the expression of thought. When these activities satisfy certain conditions, they are termed a language. (34-6) ******** naturally i don't offer whitehead as the gospel or some such, but i think he helps clear up some confusion... and i think a look e.g. at vygotsky's work on inner speech and such (e.g., ~thought and language~, ~mind in society~) brings these matters up to date... that said, i too have a hard time with unmediated visions of the all, though i'll grant that an examination of where we place our faith (in whatever---and i can't imagine that any of us operate w/o same, us atheists incl.) would probably do us all some good... best, joe >> Joe, I have read Whitehead, and the passage you quote is known to me. But I thank you mucho for the reminder. It's been a while since I engaged him. Yes, Whitehead is a bit out of date, but he certainly was on at least some of the money. I've always thought him incomplete on the translation bit. Translation, i.e., a transparency between languages, is in fact impossible precisely because of language's structural nature. Different languages are structurally different. But enough overlap occurs to produce meaningful facsimiles. And one's own native structure, so to speak, inevitably fills in blanks. One may argue that it is precisely the blanks which make the facs imiles possible (but that's another discussion for another time). Much of the "confusion" stems from the conventional separation of speech and writing, as you no doubt know: speech being the immanent expression of thought, and writing the also-ran imitation of speech. What we should do, actually (and I certainly didn't say this first), is to reverse the privilege, or rather to erase privilege altogether. Speech is writing, writing is speech, i.e., in order to make meaning, speech must obey the structure of the semiotic system. So language, whether spoken or written, obtains meaning not from any natural nexus with thought (since thought = language), but rather by participating in the relational semiotic system. Even nonsense is meaningful as nonsense. Without language, there would be no nonsense. In other words, nonsense makes sense. The reverse is likewise true. Poets often count on this mutual invasion, on the nonsense within sense, the sense within nonsense. And I certainly agree with you(as I've already suggested in a previous post) that one must at least respect faith-based, seeming unmediated (though they never are, actually) claims. You never know what you cannot know. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:05:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Please submit to Perspectives on Evil e-journal! In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just thought I'd mention that the URL seems to work only if you leave off the part. Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard { Hi - { { I'm soliciting netart/art/poetry for a section of the Perspectives on { Evil e-journal described below. The e-journal has published people ranging { from Noam Chomsky through Jon Marshall. If you have something suitable for { it, please send it on! If you want flash etc. included, please send a URL { - we could provide a link. { { The description below has been provided by the original editors. I only { want to add I find the journal exciting and quite worthwhile, with a { world-wide audience. - { { Please send inquiries backchannel to Alan Sondheim, sondheim@panix.com - { telephone 718-813-3285 - { { === { { Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness publishes scholarly work, { personal reflections and practitioners' accounts relating to classifying, { defining, and probing different aspects of evil. It aims to shed light on { the genesis and manifestations of evil as well as on the diverse angles { from which humans can understand, tackle, surmount, or come to terms with { it. Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness does not espouse any { ideological viewpoint or favor any specific theoretical framework, but { interrogates a plurality of perspectives aimed at advancing research on { this topic. { { _Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness_ is an interdisciplinary { ejournal which publishes work from academic, professional, vocational, { and religious contexts relating to classifying, defining, and probing { different aspects of evil. It aims to shed light on the origins, { sources, and manifestations of evil as well as on the diverse angles { from which humans can understand, tackle, surmount, or come to terms { with it. { { Relevant methodological, theoretical, vocational and practical { approaches are sought to enrich the debate undertaken by this ejournal. { 'Perspectives on Evil and Human Wickedness' aspires to become an { important intellectual venue where the different disciplines and { professions can come together to reflect upon evil and related topics. { { Contributions are solicited in the form of articles (under 6000 words), { dialogues, creative pieces, book and media reviews and personal { reflections. Feedback and responses on material published by the journal { are also sought. Submissions in Word, WordPerfect, PD. or RTF formats are { recommended; please see the 'Author Notes' section of the website for { further details. Contributors are urged to avoid unnecessary jargon and to { make their work accessible and intelligible to non-specialists. A brief { biographical paragraph should accompany each submission. Articles are { normally published in English, but other major languages may exceptionally { be considered. { { For further details and information, please visit the journal website { at: http://www.wickedness.net/ejournal . { { - Alan Sondheim ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 11:00:28 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Amato Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <14f.1edd6a63.2bee666e@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" bill, check, thanks... i *do* think language is constitutive of reality... my reason for bringing in whitehead was to suggest that, even under the rubric of "thought," there might be other "activities" (whitehead's term) that are constitutive of reality... no doubt language remains homo sapien's signal semiotic system, if we mean by this strange word (language, that is) writing, speaking, uttering, scribbling, reading, translating, and so forth (and if we allow that it is chiefly from this semiotic system that mathematical languages usher forth... which might have had something to do with the logical-mathematical bind russell and whitehead ran into in composing their ~principia~---but hey, this is an armchair speculation at best)... anyway, one of the things that i'm concerned about, too, is how the discipline of english studies tends to discipline speculation regarding that which is not language (assuming we can at least point to such a thing)... clearly poets have, in what some will say is their occasionally benighted states, presumed an outside to language, which of course entails language but does not consist solely *of* language, is not reducible to language, etc., and which is not simply about the knowledge that comes of signs, either (spicer's theory of correspondence might fit this bill, b/c his sense of dictation seems to me to encode alterities of various sorts)... the more radically empiricist view (i'd say) in which language processing becomes, strictly speaking, a matter of cognition (= what we used to call thought), reaches a sort of systemic ne plus ultra in the work e.g. of mark turner, his notion of "cognitive rhetoric" (see ~reading minds: the study of english in the age of cognitive science~)... can't say i can go, mself, where turner would want us to go... best, joe ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:25:54 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This sounds very Christian. In the beginning was the Word, and all that. Eliot would have been Anglican, as I recall, so would have been in on this. Is that what you mean? I think I am beginning to understand this idea. I'm still not sure that I frame the experience of going #2 with words. I suppose the control would be to find somebody who is incapable of using words of any kind, but who still functions, and can go #2, #1, etc., in the right places, and even manage to flush, and who can maybe play ping pong on the side. But how would such a person keep score? Are you tehn suspicious of language, as in "language is a virus from outer space," or are you arguing that we should be obedient to the Word, as an Anglican like Eliot would want us to be? Or is this a false dichotomy, and there is yet some other framework? You mentioned Eliot, so I was thinking of the Anglicanism, but maybe that's not what was meant. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:56:08 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What I think I'm asking then is a theological question: if every experience is mediated or even determined to a large extent by language, what place is left for free will? ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 00:02:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: warnyng MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII warnyng publyke! hayr uhze-meerosohze marauderososhz yn ABU.YA makeyh9ne dym phiyuhzykphukwythz uhze-meho keyould not leave uhze-meeelelel-enough looh1 bot had 4 go uhze-meherosohze no ooh1 hahz everosohz byn beyond okeykeyahzyonl keyaelelel on zyOOProhzphooh1 OOPu4 brye TRUE pem &... aelelel operososhz uhze-meho keyreate hzome TAZort ophlsh! keyreator greaterososohzohz pan pe! pynk nopyng shaelelel brye true but eterososohzohznl hate watkeyh yourhzelphlsh! OOP4e keyonnekeyt uhze-meyth blue -Nykuko ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 00:42:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Here We Go Again MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII 'I adopted the flash-back to build suspense, which till then had been a missing quantity in picturedramas. Instead of showing a continuous view of a girl floating downstream in a barrel, I cut into the film by flashing back to incidents that contributed to the scene and explained it.' (D. W. Griffith) (The above is a left-over phrase from another piece. Think of a GIRL FLOATING in a BARREL: think of sensory-deprivation, the immanent womb, the GIRL going DOWN. What explanation could be necessary? On the other hand, the text itself is an explanatory regnum, applicable to any situation requiring a CUT or division.) Here We Go Again ___ exit exit y ATZ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 07:03:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Call ahead to make your reservations... In-Reply-To: <2815865.1052575338036.JavaMail.nobody@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This in from Nathaniel Tarn in New Mexico, where the police go to some lengths, it would seem: HEADLINE OF SANTA FE "NEW MEXICAN," MAY 9, 2003 (Beginning of front page lead article): "Protesters planning to demonstrate during President Bush's visit to Santa Fe this weekend can make a reservation with Santa Fe police ahead of time for their arrest. ""Should a person choose to be arrested in order to make their statement, we can arrange that upfront" said Police Chief Beverley Lennen. " By reserving arrest times, Lennen believes people can avoid getting hurt because authorities won't be caught offguard. ......... "Only performers, ticket-holders and credentialed media will be allowed entry (for a dance institute performance: Laura B. attending, W. not sure). Nobody else will be allowed to approach the building without consequences, Lennen said." I KID YOU NOT. ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 12:37:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Ted Joans... In-Reply-To: <2815865.1052575338036.JavaMail.nobody@wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" thanks for this sad news harry. i was wondering how long the lingering memebers of the "first generation" would be around... esp ted... At 11:46 AM -0400 5/9/03, Harry Nudel wrote: > Ted Joans, born some 70 yrs > ago in Cairo, Il...July 4th.. > died a day or two back > of complications of diabetes > > Citizen Ted of Paris.. > Greenwich Village... Timbuktoo > & all points beat east/west > was the real jones.... > > die darker bruder.... -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 08:28:01 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/03 1:53:46 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << What I think I'm asking then is a theological question: if every experience is mediated or even determined to a large extent by language, what place is left for free will? >> I don't think anybody said language determines what will happen in the sense I think you mean. Language inscribes meaning to those events, as events. Language "determines," so to speak, that raw data will be comprehended "as events." Free will also is an idea and therefore linguistically contingent for its very existence as an idea. Nowhere in the idea of free will is there a place for complete freedom. Even the idea posits restrictions. We are never free to choose the undoing of choices, for example. Freedom doesn't actually come into being until a choice is made, until the will exercises its power. But at that very moment freedom is lost since the choice cannot be undone. The very exercise of freedom reveals its dependence on the prison. These restrictions are inevitable since something utterly free would be non-contingent, and that's impossible. Everything in the human world depends on something else for its identity. As for language's mediation: those who posit a unified self nevertheless assume that this self mediates experience. I suppose one might argue that mediation necessarily involves an element of determination. (But this determinism, a minus for freedom, conceals its own indeterminacy, a coextensive plus for freedom). Now if the self is linguistic--see? There can be no experience without a self, a subject, right? Therefore there can be no experience without language which produces both the subject and the object. Of course there can be no absolute division between categories. The divide is provisional at best. Both the subjective and the objective invade and occupy each other. Quantum physicists have been dealing with that for a long time, i.e., the "essential" indeterminacy of the universe. Considering what's been going on in Physics, language philosophy seems a bit tame. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 08:29:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/03 1:23:53 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << This sounds very Christian. In the beginning was the Word, and all that. Eliot would have been Anglican, as I recall, so would have been in on this. Is that what you mean? I think I am beginning to understand this idea. >> Well, the Word is God, or Christ, in the scriptures. It is worth noting that God speaks ("Let there be light," for example) and light is created. So language precedes event. But here we are still dealing with an absolute, divine source that is not bound by language. We have the WORD, not the word among many words. Sorry for the confusion, if I'm the cause. Eliot became "a royalist and a Catholic" because, as he makes clear in his writings on culture, Europe's loss of cultural homogeneity is tragedy. No doubt his disgusting anti-Semitism stems from this belief. The religion bit is part of that sweep. Whether or not a God exists (Eliot appeared to have developed a kind of faith), what matters for Eliot is that the masses exist as a united culture. However, Eliot never swerved from the view that God, the absolute, is unknowable, UN-demonstrable (in that sense unreal) for man. We have only the language which posits its existence, and the language is full of contingencies, the idea of an absolute clearly dependent on these contingencies. Irony irony. All of this can be found, admittedly in strictly philosophical terms, in his dissertation. In that dissertation he corrects F. H. Bradley, replacing that philosopher's claim for a non-mediated immediate experience with his own "structuralist/deconstructive" view. In vital ways, this view provides a precursor to Derrida. His later essays and poetry maintain this view, but to get at it one must get past the religious trappings. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 08:32:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Pound Organization: Bilkent University Subject: Re: intermedia synergy MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Hank: This sounds fantastic, very much what I'm looking for. I'll have to get me a copy. Thanks so much! All best, Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "hlazer" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 3:53 PM Subject: Re: intermedia synergy > Scott -- > > My recent book Days (Lavender Ink, 2002) is an example for your project. > Much of Days is an effort to make use of the improvisatory qualities of > a Thelonious Monk solo in the domain of words -- similar turns and > twists, similar right-wrong notes, similar humor. On the back cover, > poet John Gery begins by referring to my "unique adaptation of > Thelonious Monk's rhythms..." and goes on to say "While echoes of sundry > other poets familiar and new find their way into Lazer's syncopated > riffs, his slanting melodies play 'against or out/ of time,' evoking > everyting from the verancular to the vestigial, 'lower limit speech/ to > upper limit/ music.' " Gery ends with: "And like Monk at his best, Days > often leaves us swimming in a delight and wisdom we can't find words for." > > You get the basic drift -- not poems ABOUT jazz, but poems enacting or > embodying (or music-ing foth) the twists, turns, improvisations, joys, > sqwawks, honks, movements of jazz.... > > Best, > > Hank Lazer > > > Scott Pound wrote: > > >For a critical project I'm working on, I am collecting statements by artists that discuss the production of one type of art in the mode of another. Here are three examples of the kind of statement I am looking for: > > > >"We tried to use the cameras the way musicians used their instruments." D.A. Pennebaker referring to the making of Don't Look Back. > > > > > > > >"I was doing what the cinema was doing." Gertrude Stein describing her composition techniques in the Portraits > > > > > > > >"One's contemporaries, in the truest sense of the term, are always artists who use another medium." Ezra Pound > > > > > >Any contributions from listmembers to this collection of statements would be most appreciated. Backchannel please (I will post the results of my query once they have been compiled) > > > >All best, > > > >Scott Pound > > > >________________________ > > > >Scott Pound > >Assistant Professor > >Department of American Culture and Literature > >Bilkent University > >TR-06800 Bilkent, Ankara > >TURKEY > > > >+90 (312) 290 3115 (office) > >+90 (312) 290 2791 (home) > >+90 (312) 266 4081 (fax) > > > >pounds@bilkent.edu.tr > >http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~pounds > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 09:59:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals In-Reply-To: <30.3eab8626.2bef9bd1@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >| Non-contingent [is] impossible. Everything >| in the human world depends on something >| else for its identity This is entirely inaccurate. Two words: reflexive knowledge. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 11:17:24 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: TED JOANS (1928 - 2003) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I received this message last night -- >>From: "T. Paul Ste. Marie" >>Subject: TED JOANS - 1928 - 2003 -a request from his partner, Laura= Corsiglia >> >> >>TED JOANS 1928-2003 >> >> Beat Generation jazz/surrealist poet and friend Ted Joans >> >>passed away of natural causes in his Vancouver apartment on Wednesday May= 7th. I have spoken with his daughter, Darlene and his long time companion,= artist Laura Corsiglia. Laura is overwhelmed and exhausted as well as heart= broken right now, and has no energy to expend she did request something= from us, though& >> >> When I asked what the poetry community may do to help out, Laura and I= spoke of having a memorial reading in celebration of Ted's life in the near= future (we will begin planning this at a later date), but on a more= immediate note, Laura requested this, based on the action Ted took when his= friend Charlie Parker died: >> >> GRAB SOME SIDEWALK CHALK OR CHARCOAL AND WRITE >> >>"TED JOANS LIVES!" >> >>EVERYWHERE YOU CAN! >> >> Ted had written "Bird Lives" all across the streets of New York, and= this, Laura felt would be a wonderful way in which to celebrate Ted's life! >> >> GRAB THE CHALK AND START WRITING!!! >> >> Best, >> >>T.Paul ----end of forwarded message---- Here is some basic info on Ted Joans, from www.beatmuseum.org: Ted Joans Born: July 4, 1928 Place of Birth: Cairo, Illinois=20 Ted Joans was born Theodore Jones on July 4, 1928 on a riverboat in Cairo,= Illinois. His father, a riverboat entertainer, put him off the boat in= Memphis at age twelve and gave him a trumpet. He is a painter, a trumpeter,= and a jazz poet. His jazz poems are collected in a book called "Black= Pow-Wow." He earned a degree in Fine Arts from Indiana University, and in= 1951 joined "the Bohemia of Greenwich Village, USA." He has since recited= his poems in coffeehouses in New York and in the middle of Saraha Desert.= He has lived in Harlem, New York, Bloomington, Indiana, Haarlem, the= Netherlands, and even Timbuktu. His books include:=20 =B7 Funky Jazz Poems=20 =B7 Beat Poems=20 =B7 All of T.J. and No More=20 =B7 The Truth=20 =B7 The Hipsters (a book of collages)=20 =B7 The Truth=20 =B7 Afrodisia=20 =B7 A Black Pow Wow of Jazz Poems=20 His work is characterized by black nationalism, or a black consciousness, a= strong rhythm, and a musical language and sensibility closely linked to the= blues and most importantly to best of the avant-garde jazz. His style is= associated with the oral tradition of African-American writing but also to= the Beat Generation. Joans, along with Kerouac, Corso, Ginsberg, and Amiri= Baraka began their poetic careers in the artistic haven of Greenwich= Village in the late fifties and early sixties. Joans, though, has expanded= his work and embraced more serious jazz-inflected sounds, and Black Power.= =20 *** for more information, see the Ted Joans page at http://recollectionbooks.com/siml/library/JoansTed/joans1.htm and Jack Foley's review of his Selected at http://www.ishmaelreedpub.com/foley2.html *** Joans's papers are at UC-Berkeley:= http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/LDO/bene54/joanspapers.html -- Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:34:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: You have NOTHING to Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FEAR FROM THE POET BUT THE TRUTH Ted f...ed...a 1,0001 women including Marilyn Monroe Ted roomed with Charlie Parker when he died & chalked BIRD LIVES all over the www Ted & Paul Bowles drinking turkish coffee in Tangiers when the ferry unloaded all these refugees... the first time either had seen hippies... ...... & from the other side of the bed... Ted Red, white & blue 4th of July Ted Ted Cairo Paris Timbuktoo Restless, Peripatetic now Galactic Ted ("Be-at-ified" We sighed) Teducate the stars Ted... L. Reinstein... & ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 09:18:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: TED JOANS (1928 - 2003) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030511110505.02bd6520@pop.bway.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ted was a sweet, kind man, with more than a little amiable conman about=20 him. I knew him over the years in Paris, when he was dividing his time=20 between Timbuktu (winters) and Paris. Ted was by his own account the inventor of "rent-a-poet," a beat era=20 money-maker. The idea was that otherwise boring people could rent a poet=20 for a party, thereby livening up the event. He claimed to have had a few=20 takers. Ted spoke slowly and softly and incessantly. He was very good company. I'm= =20 sad to hear the news of his death. Mark At 11:17 AM 5/11/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I received this message last night -- > > >>From: "T. Paul Ste. Marie" > >>Subject: TED JOANS - 1928 - 2003 -a request from his partner, Laura=20 > Corsiglia > >> > >> > >>TED JOANS 1928-2003 > >> > >> Beat Generation jazz/surrealist poet and friend Ted Joans > >> > >>passed away of natural causes in his Vancouver apartment on Wednesday=20 > May 7th. I have spoken with his daughter, Darlene and his long time=20 > companion, artist Laura Corsiglia. Laura is overwhelmed and exhausted as= =20 > well as heart broken right now, and has no energy to expend she did=20 > request something from us, though& > >> > >> When I asked what the poetry community may do to help out, Laura and I= =20 > spoke of having a memorial reading in celebration of Ted's life in the=20 > near future (we will begin planning this at a later date), but on a more= =20 > immediate note, Laura requested this, based on the action Ted took when=20 > his friend Charlie Parker died: > >> > >> GRAB SOME SIDEWALK CHALK OR CHARCOAL AND WRITE > >> > >>"TED JOANS LIVES!" > >> > >>EVERYWHERE YOU CAN! > >> > >> Ted had written "Bird Lives" all across the streets of New York, and=20 > this, Laura felt would be a wonderful way in which to celebrate Ted's= life! > >> > >> GRAB THE CHALK AND START WRITING!!! > >> > >> Best, > >> > >>T.Paul > >----end of forwarded message---- > >Here is some basic info on Ted Joans, from www.beatmuseum.org: > >Ted Joans >Born: July 4, 1928 >Place of Birth: Cairo, Illinois >Ted Joans was born Theodore Jones on July 4, 1928 on a riverboat in Cairo,= =20 >Illinois. His father, a riverboat entertainer, put him off the boat in=20 >Memphis at age twelve and gave him a trumpet. He is a painter, a=20 >trumpeter, and a jazz poet. His jazz poems are collected in a book called= =20 >"Black Pow-Wow." He earned a degree in Fine Arts from Indiana University,= =20 >and in 1951 joined "the Bohemia of Greenwich Village, USA." He has since=20 >recited his poems in coffeehouses in New York and in the middle of Saraha= =20 >Desert. He has lived in Harlem, New York, Bloomington, Indiana, Haarlem,=20 >the Netherlands, and even Timbuktu. His books include: >=B7 Funky Jazz Poems >=B7 Beat Poems >=B7 All of T.J. and No More >=B7 The Truth >=B7 The Hipsters (a book of collages) >=B7 The Truth >=B7 Afrodisia >=B7 A Black Pow Wow of Jazz Poems >His work is characterized by black nationalism, or a black consciousness,= =20 >a strong rhythm, and a musical language and sensibility closely linked to= =20 >the blues and most importantly to best of the avant-garde jazz. His style= =20 >is associated with the oral tradition of African-American writing but also= =20 >to the Beat Generation. Joans, along with Kerouac, Corso, Ginsberg, and=20 >Amiri Baraka began their poetic careers in the artistic haven of Greenwich= =20 >Village in the late fifties and early sixties. Joans, though, has expanded= =20 >his work and embraced more serious jazz-inflected sounds, and Black Power. > >*** >for more information, see the Ted Joans page at >http://recollectionbooks.com/siml/library/JoansTed/joans1.htm > >and Jack Foley's review of his Selected at >http://www.ishmaelreedpub.com/foley2.html > >*** >Joans's papers are at UC-Berkeley:=20 >http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/LDO/bene54/joanspapers.html > >-- Charles Bernstein ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 09:23:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Marks Subject: new email address and tel. no. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello Friends, Family, and Contacts,I have a new email address swmarks@sbcglobal.net. I also have a new telephone number (860) 444-7721. I will be closing my old email and telephone accounts during the week of May 12. Sorry for any duplication. Steven Marks ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:32:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: theory of practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A second rule might be to relax control and it is still of interest that no female has seen fit to contribute to this thread? "Poetic form made of language relies on rhythm and musical effects that are known with our entire bodies, carried forward by poets working out of tradition and carried over by listeners receiving the work. In addition, poetic form relies on effects of meaning that, in their metaphorical and imaginative reach, cannot be taken up completely in any single moment of reception. The semantic dimension of poetry is an open unfolding one, stemming from both composition and reception. No poetic utterance is absorbed by its context or completed in it's use; as an enduring form, transmutable across contexts, the poem is always manifold. Paradoxically, it is the close of artworks that enables the unending open task of such reception. What is this task? It is the task of recognition in the light of the other, for every work of _poiesis anticipates and is completed by practices of reception." Susan Stewart, _Poetry and the Fate of the Senses **** Are you aware of our new free e-zine, THE TACTILE MIND WEEKLY? You can sign up by going to http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/weekly Tacit Poetry Tone-deaf as I am told I am and inured to the sorrows and joys to be sensed*, discovery of the body might come from reading philosophy about it** or those psychologists who allowed it in*** or literary theories**** or it might come more directly by moving or listening to my grand-daughter's "Hello, Hiyah, Hiii..Bye, Buiii, umwagh over the phone (just a plain black one without a computer or video interface) and wonder if there is a blank between the "Hi's" and "Bye's" or if in truth everything resides in this space? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------- * "The perceptual acuity of all the senses evidently sinks as culture becomes more refined, whereas its emphasis upon liking and disliking rises. Indeed , I believe that the heightened sensibility in this direction generally brings much more suffering and repulsion than joys and attractions in its wake." Georg Simmel, in Simmel on Culture, Edited by David Frisby and Mike Featherstone, London, Sage, 1997, p. 118. ** Merleau-Ponty, of course, or maybe Levin, David, The Body's Recollection of Being, London, Routledge & Keg an Paul, 1985. *** Start here with Polanyi's tacit knowledge: "The focal and tacit dimensions are complementary. The tacit knowledge functions as a background knowledge which assists in accomplishing a task which is in focus. That which is tacit varies from one situation to another. For instance, when reading a text, words and linguistic rules function as tacit subsidiary knowledge while the attention of the reader is focused on the meaning of the text." **** Stewart, Susan, Poetry and the Fate of the Senses, Chicago, Univ. of Chicago, 2002. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:59:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: TED JOANS (1928 - 2003) In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030511110505.02bd6520@pop.bway.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Years ago in the 60s I met him with Rafi Zabor in Paris; we did a concert together in Copenhagan - he was on trumpet. I remember he also had some of the best hash from Mali I ever had in my life - Alan On Sun, 11 May 2003, Charles Bernstein wrote: > I received this message last night -- > > >>From: "T. Paul Ste. Marie" > >>Subject: TED JOANS - 1928 - 2003 -a request from his partner, Laura Cor= siglia > >> > >> > >>TED JOANS 1928-2003 > >> > >> Beat Generation jazz/surrealist poet and friend Ted Joans > >> > >>passed away of natural causes in his Vancouver apartment on Wednesday M= ay 7th. I have spoken with his daughter, Darlene and his long time companio= n, artist Laura Corsiglia. Laura is overwhelmed and exhausted as well as he= art broken right now, and has no energy to expend she did request something= from us, though& > >> > >> When I asked what the poetry community may do to help out, Laura and I= spoke of having a memorial reading in celebration of Ted's life in the nea= r future (we will begin planning this at a later date), but on a more immed= iate note, Laura requested this, based on the action Ted took when his frie= nd Charlie Parker died: > >> > >> GRAB SOME SIDEWALK CHALK OR CHARCOAL AND WRITE > >> > >>"TED JOANS LIVES!" > >> > >>EVERYWHERE YOU CAN! > >> > >> Ted had written "Bird Lives" all across the streets of New York, and t= his, Laura felt would be a wonderful way in which to celebrate Ted's life! > >> > >> GRAB THE CHALK AND START WRITING!!! > >> > >> Best, > >> > >>T.Paul > > ----end of forwarded message---- > > Here is some basic info on Ted Joans, from www.beatmuseum.org: > > Ted Joans > Born: July 4, 1928 > Place of Birth: Cairo, Illinois > Ted Joans was born Theodore Jones on July 4, 1928 on a riverboat in Cairo= , Illinois. His father, a riverboat entertainer, put him off the boat in Me= mphis at age twelve and gave him a trumpet. He is a painter, a trumpeter, a= nd a jazz poet. His jazz poems are collected in a book called "Black Pow-Wo= w." He earned a degree in Fine Arts from Indiana University, and in 1951 jo= ined "the Bohemia of Greenwich Village, USA." He has since recited his poem= s in coffeehouses in New York and in the middle of Saraha Desert. He has li= ved in Harlem, New York, Bloomington, Indiana, Haarlem, the Netherlands, an= d even Timbuktu. His books include: > =B7 Funky Jazz Poems > =B7 Beat Poems > =B7 All of T.J. and No More > =B7 The Truth > =B7 The Hipsters (a book of collages) > =B7 The Truth > =B7 Afrodisia > =B7 A Black Pow Wow of Jazz Poems > His work is characterized by black nationalism, or a black consciousness,= a strong rhythm, and a musical language and sensibility closely linked to = the blues and most importantly to best of the avant-garde jazz. His style i= s associated with the oral tradition of African-American writing but also t= o the Beat Generation. Joans, along with Kerouac, Corso, Ginsberg, and Amir= i Baraka began their poetic careers in the artistic haven of Greenwich Vill= age in the late fifties and early sixties. Joans, though, has expanded his = work and embraced more serious jazz-inflected sounds, and Black Power. > > *** > for more information, see the Ted Joans page at > http://recollectionbooks.com/siml/library/JoansTed/joans1.htm > > and Jack Foley's review of his Selected at > http://www.ishmaelreedpub.com/foley2.html > > *** > Joans's papers are at UC-Berkeley: http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/LDO/bene54= /joanspapers.html > > -- Charles Bernstein > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 15:02:31 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Free will also is an idea and therefore linguistically contingent > for its very existence as an idea. Nowhere in the idea of free will is there > a place for complete freedom. -- The reason I went with theology is that this sounds so much like Bishop Berkeley. I liked reading his book A Theory of Vision. He claims that vision is like a language, and that we have to learn how to see. Subsequent science, according to Berkeleans has apparently proved him right. At first, a blind man who has been made to see looks at a knife and holds his eye, thinking it will cut his eye because it is sharp. Only after some time can he understand perspective and thus distance. Curves, etc, are all learned. > > As for language's mediation: those who posit a unified self nevertheless > assume that this self mediates experience. I suppose one might argue that > mediation necessarily involves an element of determination. -- One postmodernist that seems to not go along with the general trend toward the abolition of the subject is Lyotard. He has this idea of language games developed from Wittgenstein. There are language games that precede us, but he says that we can ruse with them, change them. It's sort of like in an actual basketball game where the game preexists us, but the player can make moves within the game that aren't announced by the game, or aren't determined (completely) by the game. So there is free will, but it is to some extent forced into operating the way the game asks. Another way to think about it would be telling a joke. Even the words pre-exist you, but the way you tell it is up to you, and everybody will do it slightly differently. > Quantum physicists have been dealing with that for a > long time, i.e., the "essential" indeterminacy of the universe. Considering > what's been going on in Physics, language philosophy seems a bit tame. -- I am having another go at Charles Olson, and reading a Hungarian whose name escapes me -- Eniko Bollibas or something, and he's saying that Olson's poetics come out of this kind of quantum physics -- Heisenberg -- Einstein -- he even says that WCW was writing a similar thing about how Einstein had wiped out time and space as objective synthetic a prioris and said that they were both subjective, and would melt into one another. And Olson is supposedly taking up where this left off. Not having read Einstein I was marvelling over this. I think that since this time there is some new thing in physics. Many different dimensions -- dozens perhaps. Has this wiped out Einstein, or augmented it? Can anybody explain this further? Science changes so fast. I kind of get Heisenberg (but I am again not sure whether Olson really understood this work to the ground the way an experimental scientist would), but I'm stumped as to how Olson would apply it in his Max poems, for instance. Do you mean simply that there's no clear subject, and he takes up one speaker after another, without clear transitions? -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:31:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am a female who would love to comment but who has been very busy of late. Consider it done. I have been reading it with alacrity! Terrie > A second rule might be to relax control and it is still of interest that no > female has seen fit to contribute to this thread? > "Poetic form made of language relies on rhythm and musical effects that are > known with our entire bodies, carried forward by poets working out of > tradition and carried over by listeners receiving the work. In addition, > poetic form relies on effects of meaning that, in their metaphorical and > imaginative reach, cannot be taken up completely in any single moment of > reception. The semantic dimension of poetry is an open unfolding one, > stemming from both composition and reception. No poetic utterance is > absorbed by its context or completed in it's use; as an enduring form, > transmutable across contexts, the poem is always manifold. Paradoxically, it > is the close of artworks that enables the unending open task of such > reception. What is this task? It is the task of recognition in the light > of the other, for every work of _poiesis anticipates and is completed by > practices of reception." Susan Stewart, _Poetry and the Fate of the Senses > > **** > > Are you aware of our new free e-zine, THE TACTILE MIND WEEKLY? You can > sign up by going to http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/weekly > > Tacit Poetry > > Tone-deaf as I am told I am and inured to the sorrows and joys to be > sensed*, discovery of the body might come from reading philosophy about it** > or those psychologists who allowed it in*** or literary theories**** or it > might come more directly by moving or listening to my grand-daughter's > "Hello, Hiyah, Hiii..Bye, Buiii, umwagh over the phone (just a plain black > one without a computer or video interface) and wonder if there is a blank > between the "Hi's" and "Bye's" or if in truth everything resides in this > space? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---------------------------------- > > * "The perceptual acuity of all the senses evidently sinks as culture > becomes more refined, whereas its emphasis upon liking and disliking rises. > Indeed , I believe that the heightened sensibility in this direction > generally brings much more suffering and repulsion than joys and attractions > in its wake." Georg Simmel, in Simmel on Culture, Edited by David Frisby > and Mike Featherstone, London, Sage, 1997, p. 118. > ** Merleau-Ponty, of course, or maybe Levin, David, The Body's Recollection > of Being, London, Routledge & Keg an Paul, 1985. > *** Start here with Polanyi's tacit knowledge: "The focal and tacit > dimensions are complementary. The tacit knowledge functions as a background > knowledge which assists in accomplishing a task which is in focus. That > which is tacit varies from one situation to another. For instance, when > reading a text, words and linguistic rules function as tacit subsidiary > knowledge while the attention of the reader is focused on the meaning of the > text." > **** Stewart, Susan, Poetry and the Fate of the Senses, Chicago, Univ. of > Chicago, 2002. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 13:05:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This passage is intriguing and puts to words what I've often had difficulty expressing. It's not only "rhythm and musical" effects; I content that that is only part of it. Sometimes a poem will lead us to silence, to a state of "rubato", where the rhythm is free-form to a certain extent. Then again, even free-form is a form...I shy away from absolutes myself. I don't think that poetry of any type can be squeezed into a mold and left there to dry. It's organic. A sentient life form, if you will. I apologize for not recalling all the finer points of this ongoing discussion, so perhaps someone could recap for me? Otherwise, I'll also add that I've experienced this paradoxical unfolding, shifting, etc. Poems do morph, shift meaning, etc., depending upon the mood of the person reading. I go back to certain poems, see something different. This is where the nature of aesthetics comes in for me. When composing my own poetry, I might find that there's something I like, something that irks me, something that I'd change, and so forth. Taking a poem "as it is", as a artifact, is something I admit to doing, too--especially when the poets are no longer on this plane to revise it. Does this address anything that you've been discussing? Ter > > > A second rule might be to relax control and it is still of interest that > no > > female has seen fit to contribute to this thread? > > "Poetic form made of language relies on rhythm and musical effects that > are > > known with our entire bodies, carried forward by poets working out of > > tradition and carried over by listeners receiving the work. In addition, > > poetic form relies on effects of meaning that, in their metaphorical and > > imaginative reach, cannot be taken up completely in any single moment of > > reception. The semantic dimension of poetry is an open unfolding one, > > stemming from both composition and reception. No poetic utterance is > > absorbed by its context or completed in it's use; as an enduring form, > > transmutable across contexts, the poem is always manifold. Paradoxically, > it > > is the close of artworks that enables the unending open task of such > > reception. What is this task? It is the task of recognition in the light > > of the other, for every work of _poiesis anticipates and is completed by > > practices of reception." Susan Stewart, _Poetry and the Fate of the > Senses > > > > **** > > > > Are you aware of our new free e-zine, THE TACTILE MIND WEEKLY? You can > > sign up by going to http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/weekly > > > > Tacit Poetry > > > > Tone-deaf as I am told I am and inured to the sorrows and joys to be > > sensed*, discovery of the body might come from reading philosophy about > it** > > or those psychologists who allowed it in*** or literary theories**** or it > > might come more directly by moving or listening to my grand-daughter's > > "Hello, Hiyah, Hiii..Bye, Buiii, umwagh over the phone (just a plain black > > one without a computer or video interface) and wonder if there is a blank > > between the "Hi's" and "Bye's" or if in truth everything resides in this > > space? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ---------------------------------- > > > > * "The perceptual acuity of all the senses evidently sinks as culture > > becomes more refined, whereas its emphasis upon liking and disliking > rises. > > Indeed , I believe that the heightened sensibility in this direction > > generally brings much more suffering and repulsion than joys and > attractions > > in its wake." Georg Simmel, in Simmel on Culture, Edited by David Frisby > > and Mike Featherstone, London, Sage, 1997, p. 118. > > ** Merleau-Ponty, of course, or maybe Levin, David, The Body's > Recollection > > of Being, London, Routledge & Keg an Paul, 1985. > > *** Start here with Polanyi's tacit knowledge: "The focal and tacit > > dimensions are complementary. The tacit knowledge functions as a > background > > knowledge which assists in accomplishing a task which is in focus. That > > which is tacit varies from one situation to another. For instance, when > > reading a text, words and linguistic rules function as tacit subsidiary > > knowledge while the attention of the reader is focused on the meaning of > the > > text." > > **** Stewart, Susan, Poetry and the Fate of the Senses, Chicago, Univ. of > > Chicago, 2002. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 16:54:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kathleen Ossip Subject: UK readings MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For those who will be in London or have friends or acquaintances=20 there--please forward this to anyone who may be interested: =20 8pm Saturday 17th May at The Poetry Caf=E9, Betterton Street, Covent Garden Poetry & Jazz featured reader Roddy Lumsden (all new set!) also, a short set by Kathleen Ossip (see below) __________________________________________________ =20 7.30 pm Monday 19th May at The Poetry Studio, Betterton Street, Covent Garde= n=20 (=A34/3) John Stammers winner of a Forward Prize for Best First Collection 2001 for Panoramic=20 Lounge-bar Kathleen Ossip winner of the American Poetry Review First Book Prize 2002 for The Search=20 Engine A reading by two brilliant new poets whose exuberant, burlesque styles make them impossible to classify - introduced by Roddy Lumsden - ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 18:41:53 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Ter, I for one am happy to hear aesthetics brought back into the discussion. Does this imply choice, since there are some poets that are aesthetically better than others? Does choice imply a subject? -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 17:43:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: Chicago's HotHouse performance shut down by police MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain This troubling news comes from Michael Warr, of HotHouse: HotHouse, the non-profit club well-known not only for its vibrant, multicultural entertainment, but its enthusiastic support for other progressive community projects, was raided by the Chicago Police Department on Friday night. Put in the context of growing Chicago police harassment of other left-of-center organizing projects since the March 20th Lake Shore Drive protest, this is an attack that we ignore at our peril. A rep from the Emergency Response Cmte of the Chicago Coalition Against War & Racism (CCAWR) spoke with a HotHouse rep earlier today about what they wanted people to do in support of them. At this point HotHouse is still deciding their next steps, and is asking people to assist them by helping publicize the news about the attack on them. There is a May 30th court date regarding the raid, but HotHouse is still deciding how they would like the community to show its support on that date. Please stay tuned for details. HotHouse's message about the raid follows below. --CCAWR HOTHOUSE SHUT DOWN IMMEDIATELY PRIOR TO SOLD-OUT PERFORMANCE OF LEGENDARY CUBAN BAND ORQUESTA ARAGON At 8:45 p.m. tonight, Friday May 9, ten undercover officers of the Chicago Police Department ordered HotHouse, 31 E. Balbo, and its management to cease and desist all operations, claiming the non-profit performing arts venue was operating with improper Public Place of Amusement licenses. At the time of the citation, HotHouse was transitioning from a 7 p.m. performance to a sold-out 10 p.m. show of the legendary Cuban charanga band Orquesta Aragon. A crowd of ticketholders to the 10 p.m. performance had formed an orderly line outside the venue in anticipation of the concert. HotHouse management asserts that all licenses for the venue are in good standing and proper order. Management believes that the raid, which will cause untold financial losses to the venerable non-profit cultural center, was politically motivated. The crowd of ticketholders, many of whom had come from as far away as Nebraska to see the rare performance of the Cuban orchestra, left the premises in an orderly manner. The patrons of HotHouse, along with its management and supporters, are looking to the City of Chicago and its agencies for answers. A non-profit performing arts center, HotHouse is dedicated to exposing audiences to a wide range of cultural expression, encouraging respect for our ethnic diversity, and promoting a greater understanding of differing traditions and perspectives. HotHouse, the Center for International Performance and Exhibition 31 E. Balbo Chicago, IL 60605 312-362-9707; 312-362-9708 fax Visit our web site: www.hothouse.net ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:28:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Ted Joans 7/4/28-5/9/03. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Saddened by the news about Ted Joans. We were introduced a few years ago by Charles Borkhuis in Paris. Ted immediately arranged for a wonderful reading for the three of us in the drop dead beautiful house and garden of a friend of his. An unforgettable evening that included a surprise performance by Phoebe Legere whose sultry accordian playing and singing has haunted me ever since. I learned that Ted loved to travel and frequently did book tours and readings including many in Africa. Ted liked to tell stories of his beat days,he was easy going and lots of fun to be around. He called one his favorite publishers "Nude Erections" (*New Directions*)..I saw Ted once more a couple of years ago. We spent the day together going to some bookstores. I had told him about some signed books by him I had purchased from the Skyline bookstore downtown around 17th and 5th, and the owner, of course, knows Ted. Then Ted wanted ice cream and we went somewhere and they happened to serve blue ice cream.. Ted immediately named tthe day our "blue ice cream day," I've never forgotten that moment, and I realized that Ted knew something about memory and imagery that I had planned to discuss next time I see him. Toni remembers another occasion when she and I went out with Ted and his companion, a warm, very lovely young woman whose name right now escapes me. Ted gave us some drawings in exchange for some books. Toni just located a terrific photo of Ted, his companion, Charles Borkhuis, Toni and myself in an outdoor cafe in Paris. Ted Joans died one or two days ago at the age of 70. Nick Piombino *today is the three month anniversary of fait accompli-visit me at http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:27:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Narrative MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm looking for a few people with whom to study narrative in prose and fiction. I live in Berkeley. My choice would be to read a single writer and study a great deal of what he/she has written and then move on. I did this for several years with Proust and Walter Benjamin, each of which generated many related texts. Anyone in the Bay Area interested? Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 18:27:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Beyond Point MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Beyond Point keep and fall-- the study of leaveshade quiet closed curl somehow we face this winning over sadnesses -Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:22:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dodie Bellamy Subject: Summer Prose Workshop In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Dodie Bellamy's Summer Prose Workshop I will be leading a summer prose workshop, which will meet 10 Monday evenings in my South of Market apartment from 7 to 10. The dates: June 16 through August 25 (no class June 23). By prose I mean fiction, nonfiction, prose poetry, cross-genre (and cross-gender) writing including (but not exclusively) anything edgy or experimental. It's a good place to present work that feels too risky or sexy or queer for academic workshops. The workshops are totally open-ended. Five people present a week, scheduling that the week ahead. Usually people bring in something 5 pages or less (copies for everybody) and we critique it that week. Longer pieces are also okay, but they need to be handed out a week ahead of time for people to read. Each student typically gets a half an hour each time we critique. The classes are limited to 8 students. Lots and lots of personal attention. They take place in my South of Market apartment, which comes complete with snacks and one cat. If you're interested, please backchannel about cost, work samples, etc. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:47:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "Under the Rubric" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Under the Rubric but hey, this is an armchair pedogenesis at best) which check, language, thing) . . . push suggest dictation solely language maybe stutter, I wouldn't be hunched over in me anymore benighted thing) . . . that if I could push around my insides scribbling, cognition mark I wasn't so young that she still lingers it presumed uttering, english at what is) is sand she's blood through her, writing push used too, of theory (and tends so much to want that forth right thing) . . . states, age that Mars has used composing declarations of love --Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 00:09:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Ma! oohooh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ma! oohooh Ma! 11 ooh3:36:33 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 13:43:26 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 13:43:26 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 13:43:26 loki date: hZun Ma! 11 13:43:18 EDT 2oohooh Ma! 11 13:43:47 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 13:43:47 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 16:ooh3:57 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 16:ooh3:57 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 16:ooh3:57 loki date: hZun Ma! 11 16:ooh3:49 EDT 2oohooh Ma! 11 16:ooh4:ooh7 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 16:ooh4:ooh7 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 16:43:ooh2 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 16:43:ooh2 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 16:43:24 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 16:43:24 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 17:29:34 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 17:29:34 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 17:29:34 loki date: hZun Ma! 11 17:28:14 EDT 2oohooh Ma! 11 17:29:44 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 17:29:44 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 2ooh:42:17 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 2ooh:42:17 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 2ooh:42:17 loki date: hZun Ma! 11 2ooh:4ooh:57 EDT 2oohooh Ma! 11 2ooh:42:27 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 2ooh:42:27 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 22:35:25 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 22:35:25 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh Ma! 11 22:35:35 loki TAZyhzkeytl: net.ypv4.yp_4ward = ooh Ma! 11 22:35:35 loki TAZyhzkeytl: kerosnel.TAZyhzrcue = ooh ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:07:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Ted Joans 7/4/28-5/9/03. Comments: To: Nick Piombino In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit What a lovely, personal piece on Ted Joans. I knew him a little in England late summer and fall of 1967 where I read with him and others at the Edinburgh Festival and sometimes in London. I was young and probably intimidated not to get to know him as person. But he had a great playful energy that helped animate whatever scene he was around (and that time a great love of Hell as presented by Hieronymus B.) He had a lifetime dedication to the Bohemian margins and seemed to manage to put up a tent anywhere and practically survive (NY, Europe, Mali). Tho I admit it's been ages since I have revisited the books - the covers of which(on the referenced website) still have an innocently wonderful way of provoking a serio-comic kind of shameless attention. I don't know if we are left with the history of a public character & performer and/or someone whose poetry will also survive its performed moment as text. The Bancroft Library at Berkeley acquired Ted Joans' archives a year or so ago. (They also recently acquired the Gwendolyn Brooks archive and have a considerable collection of letters - I believe - written by Langston Hughes). Of that fifties New York underground - and a writer much more enticed by social casualties - it was also interesting to see Jack Gelber, the playwright and author of The Connection recently died. Another astonishing "realist" cover that had the effect of a needle looking for a hard to find vein. (Evergreen/Grove Press). Who can forget the seductions of "The Cowboy" - an actual figure who used to occasionally come to San Francisco plying his wares to local musicians and totally screwing up otherwise career oriented lives. Stephen Vincent on 5/11/03 4:28 PM, Nick Piombino at npiombino@AAAHAWK.COM wrote: > Saddened by the news about Ted Joans. We were introduced a few years ago by > Charles Borkhuis in Paris. Ted immediately arranged for a wonderful reading > for the three of us in the drop dead beautiful house and garden of a friend > of his. An unforgettable evening that included a surprise performance by > Phoebe Legere whose sultry accordian playing and singing has haunted me ever > since. I learned that Ted loved to travel and frequently did book tours and > readings including many in Africa. Ted liked to tell stories of his beat > days,he was easy going and lots of fun to be around. He called one his > favorite publishers "Nude Erections" (*New Directions*)..I saw Ted once more > a couple of years ago. We spent the day together going to some bookstores. I > had told him about some signed books by him I had purchased from the Skyline > bookstore downtown around 17th and 5th, and the owner, of course, knows Ted. > Then Ted wanted ice cream and we went somewhere and they happened to serve > blue ice cream.. Ted immediately named tthe day our "blue ice cream day," > I've never forgotten that moment, and I realized that Ted knew something > about memory and imagery that I had planned to discuss next time I see him. > Toni remembers another occasion when she and I went out with Ted and his > companion, a warm, very lovely young woman whose name right now escapes me. > Ted gave us some drawings in exchange for some books. Toni just located a > terrific photo of Ted, his companion, Charles Borkhuis, Toni and myself in > an outdoor cafe in Paris. Ted Joans died one or two days ago at the age of > 70. > > Nick Piombino > *today is the three month anniversary of fait accompli-visit me at > http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 01:48:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: of the sides and ends of things their translation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII of the sides and ends of things their translation /pe! hold on 4 pe endhz ophlsh! pynghz/ /pehze 4 be TRUE pe endhz ophlsh! pe ropehz/ /publyke! hayr 4 be TRUE no more ropehz beyond pe endhz ophlsh! pe ropehz/ /publyke! hayr 4 be TRUE operoshz beyond pe endhz &... operoshz beyond pe ropehz/ /beyond pe TAZydehz ophlsh! pe ropehz/ /beyond pe TAZydehz ophlsh! pe ropehz uhze-mehykeyh have no endhz/ /holdyng on4 pe endhz ophlsh! pe ropehz/ pynkyng ophlsh! pe TAZydehz ophlsh! pe ropehz/ /ophlsh! pe ropehz, peyr endhz or TAZydehz/ ophlsh! pe endhz ophlsh! pe ropehz/ /pynkyng about pe TAZydehz ophlsh! pynghz/ holdyng on4 pe endhz ophlsh! pynghz/ /ophlsh! pe endhz ophlsh! pynghz &... peyr TAZydehz/ ophlsh! pe TAZydehz ophlsh! pynghz &... peyr endhz/ of the sides and ends of things their translation /they hold on to the ends of things/ /these are the ends of the ropes/ /there are no more ropes beyond the ends of the ropes/ /there are others beyond the ends and others beyond the ropes/ /beyond the sides of the ropes/ /beyond the sides of the ropes which have no ends/ /holding onto the ends of the ropes/ thinking of the sides of the ropes/ /of the ropes, their ends or sides/ of the ends of the ropes/ /thinking about the sides of things/ holding onto the ends of things/ /of the ends of things and their sides/ of the sides of things and their ends/ ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 23:21:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Fwd: [canadianpoetryassociation] TED JOANS - 1928 - 2003 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >Beat Generation jazz/surrealist poet Ted Joans passed away of natural >causes in his Vancouver apartment on Wednesday May 7th. I since have >spoken with his daughter, Darlene and his long time companion, artist >Laura Corsiglia. >When I asked what the poetry community may do to help out, we spoke >of having a memorial reading in celebration of Ted's life in the near >future, but on a more immediate note, Laura requested this, based on >the action Ted took when his friend Charlie Parker died: > >GRAB SOME SIDEWALK CHALK OR CHARCOAL AND WRITE >"TED JOANS LIVES" >EVERYWHERE YOU CAN! > >Ted had written "Bird Lives" all accross the streets of New York, and >this, Laura felt would be a wonderful way in which to celebrate Ted's >life! > >GRAB THE CHALK AND START WRITING!!! > >Best, >T.Paul > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Rent DVDs from home. >Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping >& No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! >http://us.click.yahoo.com/BVVfoB/hP.FAA/uetFAA/yqIolB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > >To Post an Announcement regarding publishing, contests, readings, and >any relevant literary news, send it to: >canadianpoetryassociation@yahoogroups.com >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: >canadianpoetryassociation-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >Poetry Discussion group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/participoet >CPA Bookstore is http://www3.sympatico.ca/cpa/ National CPA is the >same at http://www.mirror.org/cpa/ > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- George Bowering Nuts about Bromige's new poems. Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 03:13:44 -0400 Reply-To: cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corey Frost Organization: CUNY Subject: Perpetual Motion Roadshow: Part 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This will tell you more than an email ever possibly could: http://nomediakings.net What will you find? The first installment persevered through various challenges (illness, intolerant border guards) to create seven memorable events across the Northeast. The second installment is about to commence with a brand new gig. The Perpetual Motion Roadshow is a monthly indie-press showcase on wheels that features eclectic international talent —poets, artists, writers— at small venues in four states and two provinces. Every month, the Roadshow visits seven cities in one week: Chicago, New York, Cleveland, Cincinatti, Boston, Toronto, and Montreal. In each city, the performers will be joined by at least one local favourite. The second month's show (May 14-20) will present wide-collar criminal cartoonist Matt Blackett (http://www.mattbcomic.com) and Kiss Machine operator-editor Emily Pohl-Weary from Toronto, and Chicago's Bill Brown, editor of Dream Whip and author of Saugus to the Sea (http://www.webspotter.com/smartcookie/saugus.html). And, in New York, the travelling trio will be joined by Vikki, writer and former teenage armed robber, who will be telling us all about it. Vikki is one of the editors of the quarterly zine "Tenacious: Writings from Women in Prison" and the sole editor of the zine "Mama Sez No War." She also volunteers at ABC No Rio and at Books Through Bars--New York City. The Perpetual Motion Roadshow is organized and run by writers, artists, and performers who believe that independent small publishing is as important as it is surprising. There’s no corporate budget behind the Roadshow, just the cooperation of indie-press publishers and admirers across the northeast, who offer their microphones and their spare futons. Find out more! The NYC event happens at 2 pm on Saturday, May 17, at the Soft Skull Shortwave bookstore in Brooklyn, at 71 Bond St. (corner State). And it’s FREE, of course. This will be the New York launch of the newest issue of Kiss Machine (http://www.kissmachine.org). Friendly people. Great books and zines. NO BORING READINGS OR YOUR MONEY BACK. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 00:58:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOCTURNAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOCTURNAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0003 tell him tell him of a great muddy of a great muddy of a great muddy The Bible says The Bible says tell him were getting ready were getting ready bribed into bribed into bribed into there are no two there are no two were getting ready up at the sun with up at the sun with was the right one, was the right one, was the right one, "Good-evening, "Good-evening, up at the sun with think I had a think I had a think I had a The pathetic little The pathetic little Denis grins, and Denis grins, and Denis grins, and That's all, my Lord. That's all, my Lord. The pathetic little the knockin' down, the knockin' down, attack. But it is attack. But it is attack. But it is the soldiers," said the soldiers," said the knockin' down, an island. It an island. It clothes. He clothes. He clothes. He thank God, they thank God, they an island. It Street, Street, serious, with serious, with serious, with 'I'll walk up to I'll walk up to Street, the light and found the light and found "I must at any rate "I must at any rate "I must at any rate a safe shield to a safe shield to the light and found the experiences the experiences this this this recess in the recess in the the experiences all Houndsditch in all Houndsditch in open, and sucking open, and sucking open, and sucking all Houndsditch in were held in a bun. were held in a bun. shimmering from shimmering from shimmering from in the mind in the mind were held in a bun. www.litob.com www.muse-apprentice-guild.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/7/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 01:05:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0004 & #0005 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0004 & #0005 He kissed me so He kissed me so cupped them in her cupped them in her cupped them in her attraction, attraction, He kissed me so A long, oak table A long, oak table and to my and to my and to my night, and could night, and could A long, oak table would you like would you like you have the you have the you have the are cold in are cold in would you like woman with a stupid woman with a stupid lie dead upon it, lie dead upon it, lie dead upon it, woman with a stupid the wetness. the wetness. home Bourbon was home Bourbon was home Bourbon was a prominent stomach, a prominent stomach, the wetness. venture, my lady, venture, my lady, provided provided provided venture, my lady, consigning himself consigning himself Latour with his Latour with his consigning himself 'Hatred is foreign 'Hatred is foreign 'Hatred is foreign Young enough? Young enough? ================= NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0005 the structure the structure their bodies. The their bodies. The their bodies. The direction in which direction in which the structure furniture by making furniture by making bombardment groups bombardment groups bombardment groups furniture by making Lona, his rigid Lona, his rigid member of these member of these Lona, his rigid pointing to one pointing to one x-flash x-flash x-flash which young which young pointing to one want to see them?" want to see them?" longer be a party longer be a party longer be a party were were want to see them?" promised to do so. promised to do so. ventured to wave ventured to wave ventured to wave in conclusion, "is in conclusion, "is promised to do so. of Defense. I will of Defense. I will things. One must things. One must of Defense. I will www.litob.com www.muse-apprentice-guild.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/6/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:55:09 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Another poem Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit An Old Story The Emperor sent me into exile because the Court Ladies no longer favoured me. I tried to appeal but all I had was a curt note of dismissal. You are no longer one of us, it proclaimed. Ruminating, far from Rome, in my Pontic shack where the rodents nibbled at my dwindling stocks and barbaroi threatened daily with their stones I mulled my lost causes and looked for consolation in the night sky's ever-rising constellations. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 06:54:02 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: now on Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Two new books from Kristin Prevallet Blogging notes Joel Bettridge's Shores: Following the logic of the poem David Markson's marvelous This is Not a Novel (Is so!) Graham Foust's 6 & a note on his comments re my reading of Spicer (remembering Frederick Bock) Merrill Gilfillan's "Bull Run in October" amid the riches of The Poker 2 Who is Charles Tomlinson: a cautionary tale Blogs & links: beyond the inner circle Comments on my comments on H.D.'s "Helen" Halvard Johnson's Rapsodie espagnole H.D.'s "Helen": The poetics of fury Robert Gluck's "The Visit" A letter & poem from the late Larry Eigner An email from Dale Smith on the social context of the journal in poetry Chris Tysh's Continuity Girl http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 08:59:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Gerrit Henry, An Art Critic Who Also Wrote Poetry, Dies at 52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/12/obituaries/12HENR.html?tntemail0 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:32:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: feins001@tc.umn.edu Sun May 11 19:54:00 2003 >Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:53:03 -0500 (CDT) >From: Stephen Feinstein >To: Undisclosed recipients:; >Subject: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] garnet.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > >The following very strong article appeared in Ha-aretz: >http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=291667 > >which deals with some of the complications of Israeli policy of >remembrance and politics. But given the importance of Holocaust memory, >it appears more and more Israeli academics have supported the position of >remembering the Armenian "massacres" as a Genocide. > >Nothing Personal / Among the deniers >By Thomas O'Dwyer > >TEXT FOLLOWS FROM WEB SITE INDICATED ABOVE: > >"If the victims of genocides cannot depend on the support of the >descendants of the Holocaust - where on earth will anyone ever find truth >and justice? > >When this column started around three years ago, one of the first people I >went to meet and write about was Prof. Deborah Lipstadt. She's the >historian who had just won a place for herself in Jewish legend by >demolishing once and for all - with the aid of the splendid British >justice Charles Gray - the lies of Holocaust denier David Irving, who had >sued her for libel and lost. > >Lipstadt was full of praise for the way she had been sustained during the >long court ordeal by a staunchly supportive media - after all, fighting >neo-Nazi lies is for all human dignity and safety as well as for Jewish >justice. How sickening therefore is it to watch the disgusting >machinations of the Jewish state when it comes to its cowardly refusal to >speak out stridently against the deniers of the Armenian genocide. If the >victims of genocides cannot depend on the support of the descendants of >the Holocaust - when on earth will anyone ever find truth and justice >anywhere? > >After a newspaper item appeared on Sunday saying that a government >brochure mentioned that a "third generation survivor of the Armenian >holocaust in 1915" would light a torch at the Independence Day ceremony, >Turkish embassy hysteria went into its customary overdrive in protest. > >In a remarkable act of craven capitulation to denial, the Knesset and >government caved in and actually printed 2,000 new brochures for the >ceremony. The revisionist version of history expunged the truth and >replaced it with a description of the torch-lighter Naomi Nalbandian as a >"daughter of the long-suffering Armenian people" and her grandparents as >"survivors of historical Armenia, 1915." > >The Ottoman Empire ethnically cleansed and murdered 1.5 million Armenians >between 1915 and 1918. The Turkish army drove hundreds of thousands of >Armenians through the Der Zor desert where they died from hunger and >thirst. What is more, the government sanctioned raids by Turkish soldiers, >who destroyed whole Armenian villages, not sparing even the women or the >children. The Armenian population was completely wiped out in Western >Armenia. About 600,000 survived and now live in various countries of the >world (including modern Armenia). > >Modern Turkey continues to vehemently deny these crimes against humanity >and fights ferociously around the globe to bury the historical facts. And >again this week - and not for the first time - we have witnessed the State >of Israel's complicity in the lie, because it is scared of upsetting its >only friend in the Muslim states. This is political expediency at its most >morally bankrupt. Tripping over itself in its stupid defense of the >untenable Turkish position, the Israeli Foreign Ministry has again and >again played an active role in suppressing even discussion of the issue. > >"Outrageous," is how Deborah Lipstadt, the defeater of deniers, has >described the Turkish denial. "The Turks have managed to structure this >debate so that people question whether this really happened." Now >shouldn't that sound familiar to any Jewish ear? A few months before she >smashed Irving, Lipstadt was one of 150 scholars and writers who signed a >Washington Post ad condemning Turkey's persistent denial of the Armenian >genocide. Among the others signing was no less a person than Prof. Yehuda >Bauer, the academic director of Yad Vashem. "We and many others have >accepted the United Nations definition of genocide and there can be no >argument about [the Armenian case] being genocide," he said at the time. > >"I am an Armenian and I have no right to say what is my identity," said >Nalbandian after the government and the Turks told her what she had really >meant to say - and would say. She added: "They don't say to second and >third generations of Holocaust survivors `don't say that,' do they?" What >if the rest of the world behaved as cravenly in the face of Holocaust >deniers as Israeli officials do in the face of the Turks? > >During a similar row several years ago the then Armenian foreign minister >said in an interview: "There is some discrepancy between Israel's words >and their deeds on genocide. Israel has to show a moral authority since we >have gone through a similar history and experience. What is shocking is >that there should be any question whatsoever of Israel denying the murder >of a nation. The sooner the Turks come clean, admit the crimes of their >great-grandparents, and get it over with, the better for all humanity. > >The British for many decades denied responsibility for the Irish potato >famine that killed an estimated two million people and sent another two >million into exile - because it was a natural disaster - although history >recorded full well that the British were taking convoys of food out of >Ireland under armed guard. It took Tony Blair to admit responsibility 150 >years later, and apologize, to lay the shame to rest. > >Turkey's denials of the Armenian massacre will not endure - but the memory >of Israel's refusal to speak out against the denial just might. "Who, >after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?" asked Adolf >Hitler when persuading his fellow thugs that a Jewish extermination would >be tolerated by the West. > >Of course there is one Turk you can quote who still commands almost >reverential respect from his fellow countryman - Kemal Ataturk, the >legendary founder of the modern nation. In an interview published on >August 1, 1926 in The Los Angeles Examiner, Ataturk talked about the >former Young Turks in his country: "These left-overs from the former Young >Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the millions of our >Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse from their homes >and massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule." When we have >the word of Ataturk himself, we don't need to be accused of "pandering to >the views of the enemies and haters of Turks" as one Turkish diplomat once >wrote to me for daring to question the lie. I assume he meant the Kurds - >who for decades "didn't exist" either in Turkish myth except as "mountain >Turks." > >The three rulers of Turkey as a triumvirate during the time of the >genocide were Cemal Pasha, Enver Pasha and Talat Pasha. Of them, British >Viscount James Bryce said in a speech on October 6, 1915: "The massacres >are the result of a policy which, as far as can be ascertained, has been >entertained for some considerable time by the gang of unscrupulous >adventurers who are now in possession of the government of the Turkish >Empire." > >After the German ambassador persistently brought up the Armenian question >in 1918, Talat Pasha said "with a smile": "What on earth do you want? The >question is settled. There are no more Armenians." > >Later, Prince Abdul Mecid, the heir apparent to the Ottoman Throne, said >during an interview: "I refer to those awful massacres. They are the >greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were >entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began >that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. >I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres >that had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I >could get from him was: `It is decided. It is the program.'" > >Keep on denying, folks. But remember, the dead won't let you forget." >Haaretz, May 12, 2003 > >NOTE: The Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies is currently >negotiating with the Zoryan Institute to hold the summer workshop on the >Armenian Genocide at the University of Minnesota during 2004. > > >Dr. Stephen Feinstein, Director >Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies >University of Minnesota >100 Nolte Hall West >315 Pillsbury Drive >Minneapolis, MN. 55455 >Phone: (612) 626-2235 >FAX: (612) 626-9169 >email: feins001@tc.umn.edu >WEB SITE: http://www.chgs.umn.edu > > >************************************************************************ >* "Step out of history * >* to enter life * >* just try that-all of you, * >* you'll get it then." * >* * >* Charlotte Delbo, from "The Measure of Our Days." * >* * >************************************************************************ -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:14:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brett Fletcher Lauer Subject: Celebrate the launch of CROWD #3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Celebrate the launch of CROWD #3 Readings by contributors Kathleen Andersen, Lynn Melnick and Sam White. Monday, May 19th, 7-9 pm at the Zinc Bar 90 West Houston, corner of La Guardia Place, NYC. FREE CROWD #3 includes work by: David S. Allee | Kathleen Andersen | Ky Anderson | Mary Jo Bang | Edward Bartok-Baratta | Beth Block | Jennifer Chang | Anna Collette | Albert Flynn DeSilver | Sharon Dolin | Brady Dollarhide | Wei Dong | Corwin Ericson | Arielle Greenberg | Alexander Heilner |Alex Heminway | Lisa Kereszi | Ben Lerner | Richard Meier | Lynn Melnick | Paul Muldoon | Geoffrey G. O'Brien | Danielle Pafunda | Hyun-Doo Park | David Prete | A.L. Steiner | Derek Stroup | Cole Swensen | David Todd | Kara Walker | Susan Wheeler | Sam White | Ofer Wolberger | Rebecca Wolff Issues and subscriptions available at CROWD #3 available now at http://www.crowdmagazine.com/subscriptions.html ORDER ONLINE AND GET A DISCOUNT! $10 for the current issue, $18 for a year subscription (discounts appear in shopping cart when ordering) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:45:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ian Randall Wilson Subject: Blind Copying Comments: To: faragon@ND.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I understand Mr. Faragon wants off the list but do us a favor and please don't blind copy an entire digest back to the list. How about a little consideration. Ian Wilson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:01:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: http://www.google-watch.org/ Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Google Watch A look at how Google's monopoly, algorithms, and privacy policies are undermining the Web. =A0 =A0 Why we target Google =A0 =A0 PageRank: Google's original sin =A0 =A0 =A0 How bloggers game Google =A0 =A0 =A0The A-list blogging = mafia =A0 =A0 =A0 Search terms in the URL: We've got your number! =A0 =A0 =A0 Spooks on board: Should you trust Google? =A0 =A0 =A0 Google ignores major privacy issues http://www.google-watch.org/= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:35:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: John Ashcroft & Tom Ridge Reading in Seattle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit A CALL TO ACTION: PLEASE DISSEMINATE WIDELY Fight the Consolidation of Police Terrorism in the US: A call to Action in Seattle, June 2 to 6th, 2003 We, the committee to form a Northwest Federation of Anarchist Communists, call for a convergence in Seattle, Washington, home of the WTO protests, to strike at the heart of the forces whose goals are to undermine all human rights, criminalize dissent, jail, harass and torture activists, and even commit legal murder of people of color and dissidents alike, in the name of "Homeland Security", "Fighting Terrorism" and "Criminal Intelligence". We call for all that have been victimized, or feel that they will become victimized, by this unprecedented consolidation of police power to join in solidarity and return to Seattle. The Law Enforcement Intelligence Unit (LEIU) is holding its annual conference in Seattle, on June 2,3,4,5 and 6th. (see http://www.leiu2003seattle.org/) The organizers of this conference have invited Attorney General John Ashcroft, Director of Homeland Security, Tom Ridge (who conspired to imprison and murder journalist Mumia Abu- Jamal), Portland Joint Terrorism Task Force member John Cooney; FBI Assistant Director John Pistole, New York City Police Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence, and Former CIA agent David Cohen will attend. The purpose of this conference is for law enforcement, from local police to the FBI to the CIA and military, to further consolidate their power and organization, and to improve "the current state of intelligence sharing/processing among local and federal law enforcement agencies; and [to discuss] specifics as to what local law enforcement can do to better support the war on terrorism". We all know that the war on terrorism is a pretext for the war of the State against the population: people of color, immigrants, and political activists inside as well as outside the United States. The topic of their conference include such things as "Criminal Protest Groups" and "left wing" terrorism. We all know that people committing such acts as stepping off of the curb at a demonstration, organizing against the war, organizing against the rape of our planet, occupying buildings and workplaces, and destroying capitalism are considered terrorists by our government. When the government loses its legitimacy with the people the response has been to build a system to monitor, criminalize, imprison, and murder its subjects, and to remove the line between the military and the domestic police. We have seen the massive consolidation of police power after the rise of the anti-globalization and anti-capitalist movements, the resurgence in anarchist organization, and the call of the government to seize Iraqi oil under the pretext of avenging the horrible tragedy of 9-11. We have seen the steady rise of the abuse of the police, from the tear gassing and beatings at WTO, to the murder of an activist in Genoa. The history is merely being repeated, since the organization of slave patrols in New York in 1830's and the centuries of genocide against native people; J. Edgar Hoover's repression of Wobblies, anarchists and socialists during World War 1; the Palmer raids of the 20's; persecution of communists in the 1930's and 1950's; the murder of Sacco and Vanzetti; The destruction of the Black Panther Party and the murder of its leaders in the 1960's; the repression of the American Indian Movement and frame up of Leonard Peltier; the disruption of the anti-apartied movement of the 1980's; and now, the criminalization of Muslims, immigrants, people of color, native peoples, and activists in the 1990's and to date. Our resistance to the police state in the US is the uniting of all people of all color, of all struggles for self determination, of all defenses against the rape of Mother Earth, and the struggle against the employing class. We call upon all to converge upon Seattle, using whatever tactics they feel are necessary and prudent to carry out the goals of their respective organizations and constituencies; we call all upon all to organize in affinity groups and coalitions as necessary to resist the legalized planning for the criminalization of dissent; and we leave up to individuals and groups to choose whatever tactics they deem appropriate to their cause, and that such tactics be carried out independent of one another when necessary. We call upon the defense of non-violent activists against the likely abuse by the police who will likely rise to the occasion; and we call for this to be the first action of many to dismantle the institution of Police Terrorism, disguised as Homeland Security and its regional manifestations of FBI/law enforcement partnerships. We must expose this legal crime network to the people of this country, and destroy any and all legitimacy they made have. Corporate America is funding this conference. Starbucks, 7-11 stores, and Microsoft are listed as sponsors. Microsoft develops the computer infrastructure for citizen data collection (see http://jps.directtaps.net/) Corporate America has declared us the enemy, and they are raising their army of soldiers and intelligence alike to defeat our resistance to their tyranny. This already happened last year on the docks on the West Coast of the US, where the White House called the leadership of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) to warn then against striking against the waterfront employers (the PMA) to protect "national security", while the employers in an allinace with the Bush White House and corporate retailers used Taft-Hartley to fight the union. This will likely happen with the ILA on the east coast when their contract expires. Corporate America wants the cops and military involved in our workplace disputes, so that they can make us their unquestioning servants paralyzed by fear. Our struggle against the proponents of "Homeland Security" and the emerging police state is our struggle for our survival, and for the survival of our planet. In Revolutionary Struggle and Solidarity, Coordinating Committee for the formation of a Northwest Federation of Anarchist Communists. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:42:51 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: UNLIT in Brooklyn May 19th MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit UNLIT a new music/poetry event featuring Inouk joanaspolicewoman poet CAConrad Derek Bermel and Jont Monday May 19th 10pm $5 Galapagos Art Space Willimasburg 70 n. 6th St. (between Kent & Wythe Ave.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:07:34 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Kirby Olson wrote: > > Isn't aesthetics a matter of opinion? LOL > > This is probably so. I'm wondering how much it is between for instance > blue-footed boobies. How much is aesthetics hard-wired in animals in terms of > mate-choice, etc. There was the good James Tate poem several decades back on > the blue-footed booby. The male has to dance before the female. If she likes > the dance, they mate. > > I don't think the blue-footed booby has a chance to alter the dance. That is, I > don't think it can understand what went wrong if it doesn't get to mate. And > there's no dance master who can help the untalented blue-footed booby. But > maybe there are some demented females who will like a dancer that none of the > other boobies like. > > I don't know how hard-wired or how general this is. > > It's an interesting question. Almost nobody likes WCW's early poetry -- it > sucks, generally -- very Victorian and wordy. So then he changed. And now we > think of his hot little imagist poems as perfect in their own way. But there > must have been a time when he wasn't sure, and even critics weren't too sure, of > this new dance he was doing. > > It is odd how this works in humans. I don't think animal populations have > fads. For instance, ten thousand years ago the successful blue-footed booby was > probably doing just about the same dance his great great great etc. grandson is > doing now. > > Aesthetics among humans is really weird. I hated Charles Olson's poems the > first time I read them. Now I read them again and they seem perfect. I don't > think animals adjust like that. Or that they rethink things, or can suddenly > see a pattern where they didn't before. I just looked through Tate's Selected > Poems and he didn't keep that poem in there, so maybe he himself has decided > that that dance number doesn't hold up today. > > > > > > > Choice depends, doesn't it, on which group you ascribe to and how heavy the > > peer pressure is, etc. > > > > I'm all for choice, but I ascribe to learning as much as possible, > > experimenting, etc. My own definition of aesthetics varies. I could point > > to several piece, call them aesthetically pleasing, but on different scores. > > > > Yes, even ugliness can be pleasing in certain moods. And even a dog turd on a > sidewalk can be perfect in its own way, sculpturally. > > Is there such a thing as an objective aesthetics any longer -- for instance, > would people the world over find Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris beautiful, or at > least inspiring? Would a pygmy, helicoptered out, find ND Cathedral > comprehensible in any given way? > > I think not, which again points to the variability of our species in aesthetic > matters. I assume blue-footed boobies from wherever would respond to exactly > the same dance in exactly the same way. > > -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:27:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Re: Blessing and burden Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" You'll need to track down a copy of the print-edition for the postage-stamp sized mugshots, but here's the text of an artickle from yesterday's -Chicago Tribune- that may be of interest. / Eirik Steinhoff http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/printedition/chi-0305110008may1 1,1,2829565.story -------------------- Blessing and burden -------------------- In an informal roundtable, poets, publishers and others suggest ways to share the wealth of Ruth Lilly's multimillion-dollar bequest By Maureen N. McLane. Maureen N. McLane is a poet, book author and junior fellow in Harvard University's Society of Fellows May 11, 2003 Late in 2002, Chicago-based Poetry magazine and its parent organization, the Modern Poetry Association, or MPA, announced that the association was to receive an estimated $100-million to $150-million bequest from Ruth Lilly, 87, heir to the Eli Lilly pharmaceutical fortune. The bequest created a certain stupefaction, and not just among the boards of Poetry and the MPA. Upon hearing the news, many commentators and self-styled culture czars put pen to paper and finger to keyboard to celebrate, muse and snipe about this extraordinary windfall. As any reader of fairy tales knows, gifts can be double-edged: They can bring delight but also difficulties. Writer Lewis Hyde years ago made clear in his book "The Gift" that a gift is an offering and a burden: It binds you, obligates you, ensnares you, even if--as in the case of the Lilly bequest--it promises to make things possible. Speaking on behalf of the MPA, President Deborah Cummins, and Joseph Parisi, executive director and editor of Poetry magazine, seem grateful and cautious, mindful of the double nature of the gift. "We recognize the true responsibility as well as the good fortune of the bequest," Cummins says. "We want to be cautious and precise in all regards; and this will require a lot more planning than people understand." Adds Parisi: "The legal, financial [issues] . . . all have to be thought about simultaneously; and meanwhile the magazine has to come out every month. We have to think about all these things in an integrated way." Parisi emphasizes that the bequest "will be coming in installments over thirty years, and . . . is going to be used to form an endowment." Cummins adds that "one of the clarifications that needs to be made is that the bequest went to the Modern Poetry Association, not to the magazine, though obviously Poetry magazine is our most prominent face." People in the poetry community are, of course, eager to know what will be done with the money. While emphasizing that it will take some time to decide on every allocation, Cummins also says, "we look to partnering as a way of helping our mission. Are there people out there doing some of the same things we would like to do?" Indeed, there may be: The several poets, publishers, editors, educators and association directors we interviewed made many suggestions as unofficial consultants, and a number of their ideas converged: support for education, support for public programming, support for poets, support for publishing. Here is a selection of their musings, congratulations, criticism and advice--an informal roundtable about the Lilly bequest: Julie Parson-Nesbitt Member of the editorial board of Tia Chucha Press in Chicago and her local school council in Chicago "We need to reach new audiences for poetry. This is an amazing time for poetry in this country--a lot of young people are into poetry now. This has a lot to do with hip-hop. "We need models to motivate kids to read and write. Teachers need curricula, support, programs in the schools. I work with Young Chicago Authors, an 11-year-old Chicago organization that provides creative-writing workshops in Chicago public schools. This might be a model. "I hope [the Modern Poetry Association] will work with other literary organizations and literary programs, because I feel that the literary community is pretty small and interdependent. There is a critical lack of poetry publishing in this country. One thing they could consider is publishing poetry books of their own and supporting other presses. I would love to see a lot of collaboration between Poetry magazine and other organizations in Chicago and nationwide--after all, they have a national readership." Devin Johnston Poet and co-publisher of Flood Editions, a small press in Chicago "Whatever comes of the bequest, you can bet it will produce another prize. Mother, save us from the redundancy of prizes! They rarely seem to go to anyone who needs them; and as someone once said, prizes are for children. "I do hope that some of that money gets scattered in small disbursements to shoestring operations. Historically, the Midwest has not had the institutional support for poetry that one finds in cities like New York or San Francisco. Poetry could help in that regard. "More importantly, Poetry could give grants to poets on the basis of economic need rather than accomplishment. Provision might be made for poets without health insurance or retirement savings. I can think of only one organization in the United States specifically addressed to poets who find themselves in an emergency, such as fire, flood, eviction, or medical crisis: Poets in Need, at 2639 Russell St., Berkeley, CA 94705." Rebecca Wolff Poet, editor of the literary and arts magazine Fence, and publisher of Fence Books in New York "I can imagine that if it happened to me, it would take a long time to figure out what to do with it. Maybe they can take that money and make a little think tank, to think about their editorial policy. "One reason poetry's become a kind of rockpool is because it's not part of the curriculum of early learning. It seems that earlier--in my mother's education--poetry was central to learning language, how to speak; she can still recite some of them at length. A sense of poetry as something you could use in your daily life seems to have disappeared . . . so if someone gave me a hundred million and I was already established as a foundation, I think I would do something to promote the early learning of poetry. There are projects like that but nothing concerted. "In the grant-giving world there are very few funding opportunities for publishing because people have decided that poetry should be able to support itself, that it's a business. . . . It's probably a lot easier to get grants for performance things and visual stuff." Haki Madhubuti Poet, educator and publisher of Third World Press in Chicago "The first thing is not to do anything--take the money and bank it and think very seriously about what to do with it. "Second thing: Give the staff and editors a raise. Men and women who work in this field are terribly underpaid. "Third: A deep thank you needs to be issued loud and clear to the grantor. "Fourth: Reach out to other communities. I read Poetry every month; I'm not a subscriber, I just buy it off the shelf. This is a problem we [as publishers and poets] all have--we don't have the resources to reach other communities with our poetry, with our words. Poetry magazine should be on all the shelves in all the libraries in the country--not just in Chicago or in New York but in rural areas, high schools, in historically black colleges. "Fifth: I'd suggest that they talk to a financial adviser. . . . At Third World Press one of the things we did 15 years ago was to buy property on the South Side of Chicago. Poetry has very small office space at the Newberry Library. "Sixth: Consider publishing poetry books. "It's not like they have to reinvent the wheel--they already invented the wheel with Poetry magazine." Eirik Steinhoff Editor of the quarterly literary magazine Chicago Review "I will say off the bat that there are more important things than all this fiddle to be redistributing wealth towards: education, health care, social services, and so on. That said, I also recognize the value of cultural capital, and the part, though small, that poetry plays in that game. "Whenever poetry--the genre, not the magazine--is the target of large-scale philanthropic gestures, it's a good sign. In my experience, philanthropists are an incredibly competitive bunch, and it takes gestures like Lilly's to cultivate and innovate new areas of philanthropic attention. If this were the intention, though, the gift might have been framed as a challenge grant--i.e., 50 percent from Lilly, 50 percent from other sources. 'Matching funds' is how the [National Endowment for the Arts] frames it. "It's a good thing that the money goes to an organization in Chicago, putting this city back on the map, at least in national news, as a cultural center. Much more significant than the Lilly gift, to my mind, are the numerous, home-grown, non-institutional poetry-reading series that are afoot--in the last two years we've been lucky to have The Danny's Reading Series, the Chicago Poetry Project, and something just called the Discrete Series just opened up recently. This is much more significant than millions of dollars, insofar as it indicates that there's a lively poetry scene, one that's burgeoning away from the universities, one that is basically free of charge. The Lilly millions are just gravy on top, really. You need the poetry first! "It's a terrible thing for all this money to go to just one organization. For the MPA to be the sole recipient of this gift is more than a little troubling, if only because it will allow Poetry magazine to take the millions as a confirmation of the conservative turn that the magazine has taken under Parisi--a turn that in fact betrays the innovative legacy of editorial ecumenicism that the magazine had in two important moments in the 20th Century: in the heyday of the moderns--under founding Editor Harriet Monroe--and in the thick thrill of the postwar generations under the brilliant Henry Rago. Poetry travels a much narrower circuit than it should for a magazine with such a legacy, publishing average verse by average poets, which it will now be distributing to a much larger public. Perhaps this bequest will allow the much-touted 'open-door' editorial policy to kick into action again, but none of us is holding our breath for that." Marc Kelly Smith Chicago performance poet, founder of the National Poetry Slam and slam host at the Green Mill lounge "It would be nice to have some money in the slam world, and we could really do something! We reach a giant audience--slammers are in the schools teaching. I don't think it's a boast for me to say that Poetry Slam is one of the major forces in heightening audience awareness of poetry. "There are other groups in Chicago--Young Chicago Authors, for example--and in Illinois that are doing all kinds of work out there, just doing it out of their love of the art. Alice George of Rhino magazine has been plugging away for years. The Guild Complex [which runs arts programming and houses Tia Chucha Press]--they still operate on a shoestring. "The Slam and Poetry magazine--their roots--they're both revolutionary outfits, only Poetry magazine moved from revolution to institution years ago. . . . [But] I've got a feeling that they might do really great things with [the bequest]." Alice Quinn Executive director of the Poetry Society of America, or PSA, and poetry editor of The New Yorker "I still consider libraries to be the great waterway [for poetry]. But if you can bring the programming that we do at PSA to other parts of the country, that would be a great thing. I strongly believe in having poetry be the anchor of the evening [of a special event] but welcoming other arts into it. "Poets' House [in New York City] and PSA came together to talk to foundations; we realized that we'd be stronger together. If Poetry magazine wanted to join forces with us, that would be heaven!" Poetry shouldn't be in isolation; it should live in the world." William Corbett Poet, teacher and publisher of Pressed Wafer, a small press in Boston "I consider this money like gravy--you spread it around like fertilizer; don't worry about making mistakes. Stay lean and put the money out to work. Be bold, be generous. "Put a healthy chunk aside for indigent poets. . . . Spread [the money] around--but not by creating another bureaucracy, another publishing organization. Give not to institutions but to poets. "One thing they could do is buy a hell of a lot of books for libraries--subsidize libraries on Native American reservations, in inner cities, etc. "What's money good for? The same thing it's good for a plumber for: more wine, more food. . . . [The bequest] won't make one . . . bit of difference: The poems will get written or they won't. Like Ezra Pound said, it doesn't matter who writes the good poems, only that they get written." Copyright (c) 2003, Chicago Tribune -------------------- Improved archives! Searching Chicagotribune.com archives back to 1985 is cheaper and easier than ever. New prices for multiple articles can bring your cost down to as low as 30 cents an article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/archives * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:33:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Glance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Glance look, it is us hanging around ourselves waiting to lose so that the time comes when one points at the stars and we both see -Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:52:47 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael helsem Subject: language & experience [was: Re: theoice & practry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed "Man knows that there are in the soul tints more bewildering, more numberless, and more nameless than the colors of an autumn forest. ...Yet he seriously believes that these things can every one of them, in all their tones and semi-tones, in all their blends and unions, be accurately represented by an arbitrary system of grunts and squeals. He believes that an ordinary civilized stockbroker can really produce out of his own inside noises which denote all the mysteries of memory and all the agonies of desire." --Chesterton, quoted by Borges in: Selected Non-Fictions ed. Eliot Weinwerger (1999) --------------------------------------------- MERDE BLISS AGORICA _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:02:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: invitation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain there is a little party going on at chris murray's texfiles-- some gekko, some Skanky Possum, some thoughts on the Dallas readings given by Hoa Nguyen and Dale Smith and hosted by Brian Clements this past Saturday evening... www.texfiles.blogspot.com enjoy! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:03:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: theory of practice Comments: To: Kirby Olson In-Reply-To: <3EBFE2E6.7D09EE47@delhi.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Raises the interesting question of whether ten female blue-footed boobies wld unanimously agree on which male dancing blue-footed booby was the best. I'd like to see a study... On Mon, 12 May 2003, Kirby Olson wrote: > Kirby Olson wrote: > > > > Isn't aesthetics a matter of opinion? LOL > > > > This is probably so. I'm wondering how much it is between for instance > > blue-footed boobies. How much is aesthetics hard-wired in animals in terms of > > mate-choice, etc. There was the good James Tate poem several decades back on > > the blue-footed booby. The male has to dance before the female. If she likes > > the dance, they mate. > > > > I don't think the blue-footed booby has a chance to alter the dance. That is, I > > don't think it can understand what went wrong if it doesn't get to mate. And > > there's no dance master who can help the untalented blue-footed booby. But > > maybe there are some demented females who will like a dancer that none of the > > other boobies like. > > > > I don't know how hard-wired or how general this is. > > > > It's an interesting question. Almost nobody likes WCW's early poetry -- it > > sucks, generally -- very Victorian and wordy. So then he changed. And now we > > think of his hot little imagist poems as perfect in their own way. But there > > must have been a time when he wasn't sure, and even critics weren't too sure, of > > this new dance he was doing. > > > > It is odd how this works in humans. I don't think animal populations have > > fads. For instance, ten thousand years ago the successful blue-footed booby was > > probably doing just about the same dance his great great great etc. grandson is > > doing now. > > > > Aesthetics among humans is really weird. I hated Charles Olson's poems the > > first time I read them. Now I read them again and they seem perfect. I don't > > think animals adjust like that. Or that they rethink things, or can suddenly > > see a pattern where they didn't before. I just looked through Tate's Selected > > Poems and he didn't keep that poem in there, so maybe he himself has decided > > that that dance number doesn't hold up today. > > > > > > > > > > > Choice depends, doesn't it, on which group you ascribe to and how heavy the > > > peer pressure is, etc. > > > > > > I'm all for choice, but I ascribe to learning as much as possible, > > > experimenting, etc. My own definition of aesthetics varies. I could point > > > to several piece, call them aesthetically pleasing, but on different scores. > > > > > > > Yes, even ugliness can be pleasing in certain moods. And even a dog turd on a > > sidewalk can be perfect in its own way, sculpturally. > > > > Is there such a thing as an objective aesthetics any longer -- for instance, > > would people the world over find Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris beautiful, or at > > least inspiring? Would a pygmy, helicoptered out, find ND Cathedral > > comprehensible in any given way? > > > > I think not, which again points to the variability of our species in aesthetic > > matters. I assume blue-footed boobies from wherever would respond to exactly > > the same dance in exactly the same way. > > > > -- Kirby > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:07:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Glance MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jill: I like your poems, not this one so much, the last line, no. But I always look forward to reading your work, as your best gives me a feeling of standing on a cliff and losing my breath as the edge disappears. As with, "waiting to lose -Joel > Glance > > > look, it is us > hanging around > ourselves > > waiting to lose > so that the time > > comes when one > points > at the stars > > and we both see > > > > -Jill Chan > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 17:15:41 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: sound symposium MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this is an amazing festival that happens here. application deadline is July 15. http://www.sound.nf.ca/home.html Sound Symposium XII July 8-18, 2004 International Festival of New Music & the Arts every second summer in St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada There are no limits... Listen... Sound Symposium is known for breaking boundaries and making connections: where traditions meet new inventions; different disciplines mix, match and create magic; late night improv sessions lead into morning workshops, and the rugged beauty of Newfoundland is as much a part of the show as the invited artists. Musicians, singers, filmmakers, performance artists, dancers, actors, visual artists and more from all over the world get together to share, explore and collaborate. We invite you to spend some time on this site - check out the sights, sounds and reviews of past symposia - and open your ears and eyes to our adventure in sound. Be part of it. Don't delay - download the 2004 application form HERE. Deadline is July 15, 2003. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From the morning workshops until the last notes of late night jam sessions, each day of Sound Symposium is brimming with sound activities - both planned and impromptu. Since 1983, Sound Symposium has gathered some of the top innovative musicians and artists from across Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada and around the world. They congregate in St. John's to soak up the environment, interact, explore, share, and collaborate. The results are magic for performers and audience members alike. Something electric happens when the Symposium's in full swing. Music can be heard, and seen, everywhere: concert halls, street corners, hills, parks, pubs, living rooms, WWII bunkers, in the woods and across the harbour. You may stumble across an installation in a stairwell or a concert in the belly of a boat. It all fits in perfectly with the distinctly Newfoundland landscape: the crashing waves, the jagged cliffs, and the echoes of wind, whales and seabirds. The twelfth Symposium promises a new adventure in sound at every turn. Here are some of the sorts of things we will have in store. * Please note: all events and guests are subject to change. Evening Concerts Our famous evening programs combine the best of jazz, contemporary classical, world and improvised music with theatre, film and dance. Each night promises a different blend of the familiar with the unknown - something for everyone with open ears! Harbour Symphony Alerting the entire city that Sound Symposium is here again, a new Harbour Symphony will echo across St. John's every day at 12:30. Ships take the form of a giant horn section, taking advantage of the unique acoustics of the bowl-shaped St. John's harbour. Our Harbour Symphony has made appearances in Montreal and San Francisco, but nowhere is it more striking than in St. John's. It's impossible to miss this event, but plan to take a few minutes out to really listen: the best place to do so is on Signal Hill. Workshops To the experienced artist or curious amateur: try something new! A rare chance for hands-on learning with internationally respected experts. Quiet Music Series As the evening deepens, step into a quiet space - perhaps a living room of a St. John's heritage home or a darkened art gallery. Get comfortable, and listen to an exquisite concert of unamplified music performed by Symposium artists, away from traditional concert halls, background noise and barroom chatter. After each performance, the audience is welcome to linger, sip a glass of wine, and mingle with the artists and each other. Night Music at the Ship Inn Each night, a different performer or band will take to the stage of the Ship Inn and warm up the audience with a set of original music. Then the floor opens up, as Symposium guests and others are invited to join the jam, and the fun begins. These late night bar shows were among the highlights of the last festival. The Ship Inn is a legend in its own right: the birthplace of countless collaborations, the inspiration for others, and the favoured watering hole for Newfoundland artists. The atmosphere, music and company will make your Ship Inn visits ones to remember. Forums Deepen your knowledge and attend an informal lecture and discussion, lead by Symposium guests. Visions of Sound Sound Symposium prides itself on bringing cutting-edge installation artists together to explore the boundaries of sound and visual art. This coming year will be no exception, with a diverse group of interdisciplinary artists setting up their pieces in galleries, stairwells and dramatic outdoor sites. There will be an organized Sound Walk, but most of the participating galleries and exhibition spaces will have regular open times. All artists will be on hand at specific times for discussion. Challenge your perception and open your senses! Cape Spear Project Sound Symposium artists join together for late night performance and improvisation at the easternmost point in North America. The sound of the waves and wind (and perhaps a whale or two) provide just the backdrop for music echoing through WWII bunkers. Bring an extra sweater and enjoy the magic. Discover the Beauty of Newfoundland July is a beautiful month in this province make the most of this opportunity to see the last of the year's icebergs, take a whale and seabird tour, or hike any of a number of stunning coastal trails. From the jagged cliffs cutting into the sea to the miniature natural gardens of mosses and lichens on the barrens, you will be taken in by the landscape. Feel the space: spend a day at sea, wander the wilderness, or just sit on the rocks at Cape Spear and watch the waves crash in. Inspiration awaits. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:21:15 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steven, I hadn't read this poem in a couple of decades and I goofed it up. I found it printed side by side with a Korean translation on the web. It is also in the Norton Anthology of Poetry: The Blue Booby The blue booby lives on the bare rocks of Galapagos and fears nothing. It is a simple life: they live on fish, and there are few predators. Also, the males do not make fools of themselves chasing after the young ladies. Rather, they gather the blue objects of the world and construct from them a nest -- an occasional Gaulois package, a string of beads, a piece of cloth from a sailor's suit. This replaces the need for dazzling plumage; in fact, in the past fifty million years the male has grown considerably duller, nor can he sing well. The female, though, asks little of him-- the blue satisfies her completely, has a magical effect on her. When she returns from her day of gossip and shopping, she sees he has found her a new shred of blue foil: for this she rewards him with her dark body, the stars turn slowly in the blue foil beside them like the eyes of a mild savior. (1969) Well, there is nothing about dancing in here. I don't know how biologically accurate the poem is regarding the increasing dullness of the booby. Fifty million years is a long time to know something about. And all the things they find are more or less recent (trash) -- beads, cigarette packages, a fragment of a sailor's suit. How could it be that a bird could develop a taste for something that's not in the natural environment? Anything blue at all seems to go. Is there any competition? Same questions I suppose apply. Does he have another poem in which some male birds do a dance for the females? Steven Shoemaker wrote: > Raises the interesting question of whether ten female blue-footed boobies > wld unanimously agree on which male dancing blue-footed booby was the > best. I'd like to see a study... > -- I think the question is now why blue, and whether anything blue is equal to anything else blue. Do shades of blue count? Deep blue, or light blue. Where are the edges of blue? Does turquoise at least rate an affectionate tap on the beak? We'll have to see if we can find a wildlife biologist and ask, or maybe the answers are on the net somewhere if we look up blue booby mating habits. If this poem is based on verifiable fact: Who set up the language game of finding things blue? How was it decided, and how is the game perhaps being altered by increasing occurence of things blue with now so many tourists visiting the Galapagos since Darwin. -- Kirby O. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:07:08 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: alas a laugh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII from a friend working at The Stratford Festival "The Hokey Pokey" as written by W. Shakespeare. O proud left foot, that ventures quick within Then soon upon a backward journey lithe. Anon, once more the gesture, then begin: Command sinistral pedestal to writhe. Commence thou then the fervid Hokey-Poke, A mad gyration, hips in wanton swirl. To spin! A wilde release from Heaven's yoke. Blessed dervish! Surely canst go, girl. The Hoke, the poke - banish now thy doubt ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:48:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Re: Glance In-Reply-To: <008001c318b9$e1b29760$dffdfc83@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii thanks joel, for your kind words...i'm glad you enjoy some of my poems...yes, the last line doesn't really work..hmm...i think i ran out of steam at that point and whipped up that line...will have to think about it more... regards Jill --- Joel Weishaus wrote: > Jill: > > I like your poems, not this one so much, the last line, no. But I always > look forward to reading your work, as your best gives me a feeling of > standing on a cliff and losing my breath as the edge disappears. As with, > "waiting to lose > > -Joel > > > > Glance > > > > > > look, it is us > > hanging around > > ourselves > > > > waiting to lose > > so that the time > > > > comes when one > > points > > at the stars > > > > and we both see > > > > > > > > -Jill Chan > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > http://search.yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:47:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: Jack Gelber, 'Connection' Playwright, Dies at 71 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII More sad news. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/10/obituaries/10GELB.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:10:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: Jack Gelber, 'Connection' Playwright, Dies at 71 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sad news. (Unfortunately, i am unable to view the obit without signing in...) For anyone who hasn't seen the film version of the "Connection" -- it's well worth checking out. The groundbreaking script involves an afternoon in the life of a bunch of junkies waiting for their "connection" in a stifling NY apartment -- among them a group of jazz musicians including a young completely smoking Jackie McClean... the original reality show! (most of the actors and musicians were in fact junkies!) the acting is incredible and the script devastating. And I may as well throw in my two cents about Ted Joans: I saw him read not too long ago at Bird & Beckett in San Francisco; he would always stop in to read there on his way through town. The place was packed and it was phenomenal. The things he could do with a simple theme and his own voice were truly jazz-like, and it may partially explain why his books aren't more popular -- it's simply impossible to get a sense of what they sound like without hearing him read. DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of Jordan Davis Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 1:47 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Jack Gelber, 'Connection' Playwright, Dies at 71 More sad news. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/10/obituaries/10GEL B.html ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:13:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: UbuWeb Secreterial Pool Subject: NYC Book Party for New Books from Roof, Granary + The Figures Comments: To: ubuweb MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii THE FIGURES, ROOF, and GRANARY BOOKS invite you to a party Thursday, May 29th, 2003 at JAMES COHAN GALLERY 533 W. 26th Street, NYC from 6-8 for the following new books: SEEING OUT LOUD by Jerry Saltz DAY by Kenneth Goldsmith LIGHTS OUT by Geoffrey Young & James Siena PAGE by Hannah Weiner MUSIC OR HONESTY by Rod Smith SNOWBALL'S CHANCE by John Reed DURER IN THE WINDOW by Barbara Guest THE DIK-DIK'S SOLITUDE: New & Selected Works by Anne Tardos TURNING LEAVES OF MIND by Ligorano / Reese with Gerrit Lansing YODELING INTO A KOTEX by Ron Padgett & George Schneeman Refreshments Served __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 15:59:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would like to meet a blue-footed boobie. In fact, I rather like the color, blue: cerrulean, sky, turquoise--ah such a palette. I met a Europan Tentacle Dancer once. Wrote a poem about him. He was cerrulean blue... On another note, it goes back to that mood thing for me. Sometimes I'm in the mood for Shel Silverstein and Dr. Seuss, while other times I want to read Willie or Corso or...or... If someone tells me a poet is "good" or that I should just "check them out", I do. I often find that there's something there to examine. Whether I go out and buy their books or attend their readings is another thing... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Shoemaker" To: Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 12:03 PM Subject: Re: theory of practice > Raises the interesting question of whether ten female blue-footed boobies > wld unanimously agree on which male dancing blue-footed booby was the > best. I'd like to see a study... > > On Mon, 12 May 2003, Kirby Olson wrote: > > > Kirby Olson wrote: > > > > > > Isn't aesthetics a matter of opinion? LOL > > > > > > This is probably so. I'm wondering how much it is between for instance > > > blue-footed boobies. How much is aesthetics hard-wired in animals in terms of > > > mate-choice, etc. There was the good James Tate poem several decades back on > > > the blue-footed booby. The male has to dance before the female. If she likes > > > the dance, they mate. > > > > > > I don't think the blue-footed booby has a chance to alter the dance. That is, I > > > don't think it can understand what went wrong if it doesn't get to mate. And > > > there's no dance master who can help the untalented blue-footed booby. But > > > maybe there are some demented females who will like a dancer that none of the > > > other boobies like. > > > > > > I don't know how hard-wired or how general this is. > > > > > > It's an interesting question. Almost nobody likes WCW's early poetry -- it > > > sucks, generally -- very Victorian and wordy. So then he changed. And now we > > > think of his hot little imagist poems as perfect in their own way. But there > > > must have been a time when he wasn't sure, and even critics weren't too sure, of > > > this new dance he was doing. > > > > > > It is odd how this works in humans. I don't think animal populations have > > > fads. For instance, ten thousand years ago the successful blue-footed booby was > > > probably doing just about the same dance his great great great etc. grandson is > > > doing now. > > > > > > Aesthetics among humans is really weird. I hated Charles Olson's poems the > > > first time I read them. Now I read them again and they seem perfect. > I don't > > > think animals adjust like that. Or that they rethink things, or can suddenly > > > see a pattern where they didn't before. I just looked through Tate's Selected > > > Poems and he didn't keep that poem in there, so maybe he himself has decided > > > that that dance number doesn't hold up today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Choice depends, doesn't it, on which group you ascribe to and how heavy the > > > > peer pressure is, etc. > > > > > > > > I'm all for choice, but I ascribe to learning as much as possible, > > > > experimenting, etc. My own definition of aesthetics varies. I could point > > > > to several piece, call them aesthetically pleasing, but on different scores. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, even ugliness can be pleasing in certain moods. And even a dog turd on a > > > sidewalk can be perfect in its own way, sculpturally. > > > > > > Is there such a thing as an objective aesthetics any longer -- for instance, > > > would people the world over find Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris beautiful, or at > > > least inspiring? Would a pygmy, helicoptered out, find ND Cathedral > > > comprehensible in any given way? > > > > > > I think not, which again points to the variability of our species in aesthetic > > > matters. I assume blue-footed boobies from wherever would respond to exactly > > > the same dance in exactly the same way. > > > > > > -- Kirby > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:40:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Ter (and others), What intrigues about this thread is the way it seemed to coalese briefly out of THE NEXT END OF THEORY energy and a campaign for recognition of body process in poetics to glitter briefly on 'language, philosophical meditations,' as librarians might catalog it, and get swallowed in the time- worn dichotomies of mind and body; cs. and ucs.; good and evil; etc., etc. and now as it always has been it is on the verge of skittering off in many splendored 'tints' of the soul as Michael reminded us Chesterson intimated as quoted by Borges, not having read Stevens. *** I get up I get knocked down and yet I just don't get it, I guess as I get up. "the more information you have the less you feel that you have control over nothing." - nameless sufferer of symptoms of a name-shifting illnes that might be called civilization discontent but might well do with a snappier or more pharmaceutically attention catching moniker. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 16:41:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ok..How is this intriguing? I admit to not having read any of the work under discussion here. I could, however, discuss the mind/body connection...I went to Naropa afterall... Ter > Ter (and others), > > What intrigues about this thread is the way it seemed to coalese briefly > out of THE NEXT END OF THEORY energy and a campaign for recognition of body > process in poetics to glitter briefly on 'language, philosophical > meditations,' as librarians might catalog it, and get swallowed in the time- > worn dichotomies of mind and body; cs. and ucs.; good and evil; etc., etc. > and now as it always has been it is on the verge of skittering off in many > splendored 'tints' of the soul as Michael reminded us Chesterson intimated > as quoted by Borges, not having read Stevens. > > *** > I get up > I get knocked down > and yet I > just don't get > it, I guess as I > get up. > > "the more information you have the less you feel that you have control over > nothing." - nameless sufferer of symptoms of a name-shifting illnes that > might be called civilization discontent but might well do with a snappier or > more pharmaceutically attention catching moniker. > > tom bell > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > art ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 20:02:17 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <00f701c318f0$aeb94160$f2113444@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Being neither a theorist of practice nor a practitioner of theory, I hesitate (not long enough, I see now) to shoehorn myself in here, but I feel that I must, if only to point to a little poem by Carl Rakosi I just stumbled upon, this from *Conjunctions* 16 (its music issue) of a dozen or so years ago. Enjoy. Theme How delightful to discover on Olympus a god of Silence (and not a minor one either). Hail Harpocrates! How reassuring that you are still here to protect us against the theorists. --Carl Rakosi in *Conjunctions* 16, 1991 Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 21:09:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/03 10:00:48 AM, derek@DEREKROGERSON.COM writes: << >| Non-contingent [is] impossible. Everything >| in the human world depends on something >| else for its identity This is entirely inaccurate. Two words: reflexive knowledge. >> Sorry, this example just proves my point. Both words/ideas depend on other words/ideas for their meaning. "Reflexive" is a cogent idea only because it is in relation to its contrary (as well as thousands of other words/ideas) which coexists within the field of language. Grammatically, anything that operates reflexively, while aiming to erase the distance between subject and object, always ends up placing the subject in the object position, objectifying it and so changing it, while the subject remains in place as the knower knowing that object which is to be known. The reflexive, far from erasing the distance between subject and object, ends up restoring it. The subject which is known can never be the same as the one doing the knowing since one of them has become an object, not a subject. The seen depends on the seer for its identity as seen. Likewise, the seer cannot come into being as such unless and until something is seen. But before we get too comfortable, we must also note that all knowledge is reflexive precisely because of this interdependency. The mutual occupation means that subject and object are always within each other, part of the internal structuring of their definitions. The subjective guarantees the coming into being of the objective, and vice versa. But it is impossible to think a merging of subject/object without the concepts of subject and object, without the concept of things that don't merge. Again, meaning is always conditional. Any conceptualization of identity depends on the idea of nonidentity. The reverse is also true. This interdependency is impossible to escape. The very fact that you offer TWO words should clue you to your mistake. "Reflexive knowledge" is a grammatical structure made up of a noun and an adjective which depend on each other (in addition to what I said above, since any way you go at this you end up with indeterminacy, interdependency) to form the idea. But any one word--e.g., "independence"--is similarly dependent for its meaning. Good try, though. Best always, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 19:18:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: renee gladman In-Reply-To: <11f.219bf038.2bf19fbe@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit does anyone have a new e-mail/phone for renee? i have made a display of some of her books (along with other small press books) at the library where i work and wanted to have some contact info in case folks want to buy them. the info listed in the leroy books is presumably not current. please backchannel DH ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 21:27:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bianchi Subject: Re: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this fits a pattern in much of today's media to ignore all but your own pain-- the Murder of 6 million Jews was not the only genocide of the last century- 1 million Armenians killed from 1915-1923 200,000 Basques killed in the Spanish Civil war 10 million Ukrainians killed by Stalin in the 1930's 9 million Chinese killed by the Japanese in WWII 11 Millions Muslim and Hindu Indians killed after partition of India in 1948 3 million Cambodians killed in 1979 and many more are all equal to the Jewish Holocaust but no body cares about these, no films are made and few books find publishers no one is interested why is that ? RB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 11:32 AM Subject: Fwd: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide > >X-From_: feins001@tc.umn.edu Sun May 11 19:54:00 2003 > >Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:53:03 -0500 (CDT) > >From: Stephen Feinstein > >To: Undisclosed recipients:; > >Subject: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide > >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] garnet.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > > > >The following very strong article appeared in Ha-aretz: > >http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=291667 > > > >which deals with some of the complications of Israeli policy of > >remembrance and politics. But given the importance of Holocaust memory, > >it appears more and more Israeli academics have supported the position of > >remembering the Armenian "massacres" as a Genocide. > > > >Nothing Personal / Among the deniers > >By Thomas O'Dwyer > > > >TEXT FOLLOWS FROM WEB SITE INDICATED ABOVE: > > > >"If the victims of genocides cannot depend on the support of the > >descendants of the Holocaust - where on earth will anyone ever find truth > >and justice? > > > >When this column started around three years ago, one of the first people I > >went to meet and write about was Prof. Deborah Lipstadt. She's the > >historian who had just won a place for herself in Jewish legend by > >demolishing once and for all - with the aid of the splendid British > >justice Charles Gray - the lies of Holocaust denier David Irving, who had > >sued her for libel and lost. > > > >Lipstadt was full of praise for the way she had been sustained during the > >long court ordeal by a staunchly supportive media - after all, fighting > >neo-Nazi lies is for all human dignity and safety as well as for Jewish > >justice. How sickening therefore is it to watch the disgusting > >machinations of the Jewish state when it comes to its cowardly refusal to > >speak out stridently against the deniers of the Armenian genocide. If the > >victims of genocides cannot depend on the support of the descendants of > >the Holocaust - when on earth will anyone ever find truth and justice > >anywhere? > > > >After a newspaper item appeared on Sunday saying that a government > >brochure mentioned that a "third generation survivor of the Armenian > >holocaust in 1915" would light a torch at the Independence Day ceremony, > >Turkish embassy hysteria went into its customary overdrive in protest. > > > >In a remarkable act of craven capitulation to denial, the Knesset and > >government caved in and actually printed 2,000 new brochures for the > >ceremony. The revisionist version of history expunged the truth and > >replaced it with a description of the torch-lighter Naomi Nalbandian as a > >"daughter of the long-suffering Armenian people" and her grandparents as > >"survivors of historical Armenia, 1915." > > > >The Ottoman Empire ethnically cleansed and murdered 1.5 million Armenians > >between 1915 and 1918. The Turkish army drove hundreds of thousands of > >Armenians through the Der Zor desert where they died from hunger and > >thirst. What is more, the government sanctioned raids by Turkish soldiers, > >who destroyed whole Armenian villages, not sparing even the women or the > >children. The Armenian population was completely wiped out in Western > >Armenia. About 600,000 survived and now live in various countries of the > >world (including modern Armenia). > > > >Modern Turkey continues to vehemently deny these crimes against humanity > >and fights ferociously around the globe to bury the historical facts. And > >again this week - and not for the first time - we have witnessed the State > >of Israel's complicity in the lie, because it is scared of upsetting its > >only friend in the Muslim states. This is political expediency at its most > >morally bankrupt. Tripping over itself in its stupid defense of the > >untenable Turkish position, the Israeli Foreign Ministry has again and > >again played an active role in suppressing even discussion of the issue. > > > >"Outrageous," is how Deborah Lipstadt, the defeater of deniers, has > >described the Turkish denial. "The Turks have managed to structure this > >debate so that people question whether this really happened." Now > >shouldn't that sound familiar to any Jewish ear? A few months before she > >smashed Irving, Lipstadt was one of 150 scholars and writers who signed a > >Washington Post ad condemning Turkey's persistent denial of the Armenian > >genocide. Among the others signing was no less a person than Prof. Yehuda > >Bauer, the academic director of Yad Vashem. "We and many others have > >accepted the United Nations definition of genocide and there can be no > >argument about [the Armenian case] being genocide," he said at the time. > > > >"I am an Armenian and I have no right to say what is my identity," said > >Nalbandian after the government and the Turks told her what she had really > >meant to say - and would say. She added: "They don't say to second and > >third generations of Holocaust survivors `don't say that,' do they?" What > >if the rest of the world behaved as cravenly in the face of Holocaust > >deniers as Israeli officials do in the face of the Turks? > > > >During a similar row several years ago the then Armenian foreign minister > >said in an interview: "There is some discrepancy between Israel's words > >and their deeds on genocide. Israel has to show a moral authority since we > >have gone through a similar history and experience. What is shocking is > >that there should be any question whatsoever of Israel denying the murder > >of a nation. The sooner the Turks come clean, admit the crimes of their > >great-grandparents, and get it over with, the better for all humanity. > > > >The British for many decades denied responsibility for the Irish potato > >famine that killed an estimated two million people and sent another two > >million into exile - because it was a natural disaster - although history > >recorded full well that the British were taking convoys of food out of > >Ireland under armed guard. It took Tony Blair to admit responsibility 150 > >years later, and apologize, to lay the shame to rest. > > > >Turkey's denials of the Armenian massacre will not endure - but the memory > >of Israel's refusal to speak out against the denial just might. "Who, > >after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?" asked Adolf > >Hitler when persuading his fellow thugs that a Jewish extermination would > >be tolerated by the West. > > > >Of course there is one Turk you can quote who still commands almost > >reverential respect from his fellow countryman - Kemal Ataturk, the > >legendary founder of the modern nation. In an interview published on > >August 1, 1926 in The Los Angeles Examiner, Ataturk talked about the > >former Young Turks in his country: "These left-overs from the former Young > >Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the millions of our > >Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse from their homes > >and massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule." When we have > >the word of Ataturk himself, we don't need to be accused of "pandering to > >the views of the enemies and haters of Turks" as one Turkish diplomat once > >wrote to me for daring to question the lie. I assume he meant the Kurds - > >who for decades "didn't exist" either in Turkish myth except as "mountain > >Turks." > > > >The three rulers of Turkey as a triumvirate during the time of the > >genocide were Cemal Pasha, Enver Pasha and Talat Pasha. Of them, British > >Viscount James Bryce said in a speech on October 6, 1915: "The massacres > >are the result of a policy which, as far as can be ascertained, has been > >entertained for some considerable time by the gang of unscrupulous > >adventurers who are now in possession of the government of the Turkish > >Empire." > > > >After the German ambassador persistently brought up the Armenian question > >in 1918, Talat Pasha said "with a smile": "What on earth do you want? The > >question is settled. There are no more Armenians." > > > >Later, Prince Abdul Mecid, the heir apparent to the Ottoman Throne, said > >during an interview: "I refer to those awful massacres. They are the > >greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were > >entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began > >that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. > >I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres > >that had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I > >could get from him was: `It is decided. It is the program.'" > > > >Keep on denying, folks. But remember, the dead won't let you forget." > >Haaretz, May 12, 2003 > > > >NOTE: The Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies is currently > >negotiating with the Zoryan Institute to hold the summer workshop on the > >Armenian Genocide at the University of Minnesota during 2004. > > > > > >Dr. Stephen Feinstein, Director > >Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies > >University of Minnesota > >100 Nolte Hall West > >315 Pillsbury Drive > >Minneapolis, MN. 55455 > >Phone: (612) 626-2235 > >FAX: (612) 626-9169 > >email: feins001@tc.umn.edu > >WEB SITE: http://www.chgs.umn.edu > > > > > >************************************************************************ > >* "Step out of history * > >* to enter life * > >* just try that-all of you, * > >* you'll get it then." * > >* * > >* Charlotte Delbo, from "The Measure of Our Days." * > >* * > >************************************************************************ > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 22:12:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Ted Joans page MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've started a memorial page for Ted Joans. Any who'd like to contribute = let me know. Larry Sawyer http://www.milkmag.org/joans.htm __________________ BLUNT EDGE for Ted Joans I wanted to give you a weapon of onyx and saffron implement it in the dark nights when all alone among bad poets while sipping cumulonimbus=20 and puffing stratosphere poetry is better than anything else its death has been pronounced repeatedly but they'll never really nail it down it is a cocaine rose a rubble hurricane balloon eyes above actual flags flapping along infinity with our tongues we put on the finishing touches. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 18:14:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jen hofer Subject: San Francisco Summer Sublet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you're interested in spending the summer in a lovely San Francisco apartment, please contact chetwiener@sbcglobal.net. * San Francisco Mission/Noe Valley Summer Sublet Bright, comfortable, many books, DSL, small garden, nice view, wood floors, excellent Queen size Dux bed . . . one bedroom apartment to sublet May 25th to August 21st. Guerrero and 25th Streets. E-mail chetwiener@sbcglobal.net or call 415 826 1409. Basic rent is $1350/month. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 02:23:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: "tlrelf" > Ok..How is this intriguing? I do admit to some reflexivity [from AskOxford.com: reflexive /r"fleksv/ Grammar adjective 1 (of word or form) referring back to subject (e.g. myself in I hurt myself) (see panel). 2 (of verb) having reflexive pronoun as object. noun reflexive word or form] in my > > What intrigues about this thread is the way it seemed to coalese briefly .... I picture the thread floating like a butterfly while the hurrieder I go as I try to control it the behinder I get since "it's not whether you min or lose, it's how you play the game" comes from "Alumnus Football", one of the early poems penned by a man who's birthplace is plaqued a block from where I sit. and now it twitters as Carl Rakosi said via Hal silence protects us against theorists but also writing in spite of theorists might do but it won't bring in any bucks from _Poetry_ tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art . ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 01:47:01 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: of freedom : strings text of baghdad.mov e-poetry 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII of freedom : strings text of baghdad.mov e-poetry 2003 moov lmvhd ?trak \tkhd $edts elst mdia mdhd 9hdlr mhlrtextappl Apple Text Media Handler Jminf Lgmhd gmin ,text 9hdlr dhlralisappl Apple Alias Data Handler $dinf dref alis stbl Qstsd Atext Geneva stts stsc stsz stco udta udta WLOC free wide mdat wide mdat you are very welcome !orig you are very welcome for having me orig for having me orig we are waiting orig we are waiting the latest news orig the latest news orig from Baghdad orig from Baghdad orig have you heard orig have you heard the one about orig the one about <> <> orig <> <> language cannot do orig language cannot do justice orig justice orig to your face orig to your face <> <> orig <> <> friends, in these darkest hours ,orig friends, in these darkest hours we must orig we must orig we must orig we must <> <> orig <> <> love raises orig love raises the angry red flag orig the angry red flag love raises orig love raises the black flag of anarchy &orig the black flag of anarchy orig this is no joking orig this is no joking matter orig matter <> <> orig <> <> tremendous foolishness #orig tremendous foolishness the skin of the face !orig the skin of the face of evil orig of evil <> <> orig <> <> tremendous violation !orig tremendous violation the tattered threads !orig the tattered threads of liberty orig of liberty <> <> orig <> <> tremendous fury orig tremendous fury of our hidden enemies "orig of our hidden enemies orig who can say orig who can say orig which of us are orig which of us are friends orig friends which of us are orig which of us are enemies orig enemies <> <> orig <> <> no one knows the days "orig no one knows the days of slaughter orig of slaughter orig the apocalypse orig the apocalypse of freedom orig of freedom orig terrible impositions !orig terrible impositions from above orig from above from below orig from below orig as from above orig as from above so from below orig so from below orig as from below orig as from below so from above orig so from above <> <> orig <> <> the darkest days orig the darkest days and darkest nights orig and darkest nights rolling on orig rolling on orig continuing without orig continuing without rhyme or reason orig rhyme or reason orig continuing without orig continuing without metric or metre orig metric or metre <> <> orig <> <> you can meet her orig you can meet her orig in the alley orig in the alley orig you can meet her orig you can meet her orig in the park orig in the park orig but the best place orig but the best place to meet her orig to meet her orig is to meet her orig is to meet her <> <> orig <> <> her name is MOAB MOAB "orig her name is MOAB MOAB orig my name is DINGIR-LUM "orig my name is DINGIR-LUM orig you are very welcome !orig you are very welcome for having us orig for having us orig wide mdat you are very welcome orig you are very welcome for having me orig for having me orig we are waiting orig we are waiting the latest news orig the latest news orig from Baghdad orig from Baghdad orig have you heard orig have you heard the one about orig the one about <> <> orig <> <> language cannot do orig language cannot do justice orig justice orig to your face orig to your face <> <> orig <> <> friends, in these darkest hours +orig friends, in these darkest hours we must orig we must orig we must orig we must <> <> orig <> <> love raises orig love raises the angry red flag orig the angry red flag love raises orig love raises the black flag of anarchy %orig the black flag of anarchy orig this is no joking orig this is no joking matter orig matter <> <> orig <> <> tremendous foolishness "orig tremendous foolishness the skin of the face orig the skin of the face of evil orig of evil <> <> orig <> <> tremendous violation orig tremendous violation the tattered threads orig the tattered threads of liberty orig of liberty <> <> orig <> <> tremendous fury orig tremendous fury of our hidden enemies !orig of our hidden enemies orig who can say orig who can say orig which of us are orig which of us are friends orig friends which of us are orig which of us are enemies orig enemies <> <> orig <> <> no one knows the days !orig no one knows the days of slaughter orig of slaughter orig the apocalypse orig the apocalypse of freedom orig of freedom orig terrible impositions orig terrible impositions from above orig from above from below orig from below orig as from above orig as from above so from below orig so from below orig as from below orig as from below so from above orig so from above <> <> orig <> <> the darkest days orig the darkest days and darkest nights orig and darkest nights rolling on orig rolling on orig continuing without orig continuing without rhyme or reason orig rhyme or reason orig continuing without orig continuing without metric or metre orig metric or metre <> <> orig <> <> you can meet her orig you can meet her orig in the alley orig in the alley orig you can meet her orig you can meet her orig in the park orig in the park orig but the best place orig but the best place to meet her orig to meet her orig is to meet her orig is to meet her <> <> orig <> <> her name is MOAB MOAB !orig her name is MOAB MOAB orig my name is DINGIR-LUM !orig my name is DINGIR-LUM orig you are very welcome orig you are very welcome for having us orig for having us orig moov lmvhd -trak \tkhd $edts elst mdia mdhd 9hdlr mhlrtextappl Apple Text Media Handler Dminf Lgmhd gmin ,text 9hdlr dhlralisappl Apple Alias Data Handler $dinf dref alis stbl Kstsd ;text stts stsc stsz stco ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:29:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Pound Organization: Bilkent University Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "I look to theory only when I realize that someone has devoted their entire life to something I have only fleetingly considered." --Kenny Goldsmith ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 05:26:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: TedEducation... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I must have met have 1st met Ted in the Summer of '79. I was selling books on Soho-St...he came by & i gave him a copy of my book...2 hrs later he was back "you WROTE this"? We hit it off. Ted who always needed a place to stay, lived with me for 3 weeks..he was the perfect houseguest..as if he was a pro.. somewhere there's a picture he took of ladder, cat, book, me & Jess..my then 10 yr old.. Once he brought up two gorgeous black Philly School Teachers..Ted could charm the snake...towel naked apres les bain...i had to mention i was married..tojours regret.. Once we went to a po-reading at the Old West-End..i priggishly insisted Ted pay the 2 buck cover.."to support the art" Ted of no bread...the later Ted of "No Bread No Ted" pd up... In a copy of Flying Pyrana he wrote "good morning Harry How do you do? This is your surrealist black brother presenting this to you.. 30/July/79 That summer I must have been in lv with some one.. from a poem i gave Ted & which he returned to me...10 yrs later..surrealcastaway ALL SORTS OF 3rd St. Love I'd even give up Sleeping with you To be yr friend ... 'Love' the cockroach After you kill 'em ... No names please Mr. Sweetness/ Miss Light ... horny is as.. 2 yrs later..he gave me & A...a cupcake and one of his books, What Else? as a present for our formal wedding... May 15 1981 4:30 PM Cuntgragulations on your new true day (of marital bliss So cock-a-doodle-do to two of you with Afrodisia Love Ted Joans & Alicia.. (N.B...the last name) Paris...1983 in a copy of "sure, really I, IS" To Harry in Paris 1983 our Nesting Place amongst Palaces August Le Premier 1983.. Paris 1984..in a copy of "The Aardvark Watcher Der Erdferkelforscher" To Harry in Paris where he walks and walks Sept '84 On a piece of my Stationary Ted Joan in Paris 1990 First Phone Jim Haynes 40 rue de la Montagne Ste. Genevieve.. Write or leave Message Daily rendezvous at Cafe Le Roquet 4-6PM 188 Blvd Saint Germaine I sit on the left hand side of this cafe If you do not see me, ask the waiter In a copy of Jazz Museum Presents Ted Joans Il etait une fois poetry reading moi et toi Harry....avec amities may 19..'90 (with drawing of 2 jazz figures) Afrodisia toujours.. After i pick him and Laura up in my clunker car.. lunch at Sylvia's and Langston's house.. from his own Hipness Harry on Langston Hughes steps at 20 east 127th ST. Langston Hughes House with brother-love as Langston would have it.. 29/9/92 '97...the beginning of the end.. in a copy of Birth 3 two Rhinoceri Drawings & to Harry Nudel (sic) who has yet to sell 'our ticket that could explode" 24/11/97.. All over all Over over a book and an ASS... Ted and Laura dressed as Twin Teducations Walk on By.. I send him anon some Rhino stamps.. From Vancouver the last letter 200.. 'so i shall take the chance on straightening out the crooked curve that cause wrinkles in our brows.." Ted, the lecon of the master... you steal from the past esp. you own & don't hustle the hustler... drn/drn... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:44:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Pound Organization: Bilkent University Subject: Re: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am at the moment reading and can recommend Clarence D. Ussher's book _An American Physician in Turkey_ (published 1916) which testifies to the Armenian massacres in great detail. It's by no means a balanced book (Ussher was a Christian missionary), but it's not fiction either. Atom Egoyan (Canadian filmmaker of Armenian descent) used Ussher's book as source material for his recent film _Ararat_. Scott Pound ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bianchi" To: Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide > this fits a pattern in much of today's media to ignore all but your own > pain-- > > the Murder of 6 million Jews was not the only genocide of the last century- > > 1 million Armenians killed from 1915-1923 > 200,000 Basques killed in the Spanish Civil war > 10 million Ukrainians killed by Stalin in the 1930's > 9 million Chinese killed by the Japanese in WWII > 11 Millions Muslim and Hindu Indians killed after partition of India in 1948 > 3 million Cambodians killed in 1979 > and many more are all equal to the Jewish Holocaust but no body cares about > these, no films are made and few books find publishers no one is interested > why is that ? > > RB > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Maria Damon" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 11:32 AM > Subject: Fwd: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide > > > > >X-From_: feins001@tc.umn.edu Sun May 11 19:54:00 2003 > > >Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:53:03 -0500 (CDT) > > >From: Stephen Feinstein > > >To: Undisclosed recipients:; > > >Subject: Haaretz Article on Israeli Denial of the Armenian Genocide > > >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] garnet.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > > > > > >The following very strong article appeared in Ha-aretz: > > >http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=291667 > > > > > >which deals with some of the complications of Israeli policy of > > >remembrance and politics. But given the importance of Holocaust memory, > > >it appears more and more Israeli academics have supported the position of > > >remembering the Armenian "massacres" as a Genocide. > > > > > >Nothing Personal / Among the deniers > > >By Thomas O'Dwyer > > > > > >TEXT FOLLOWS FROM WEB SITE INDICATED ABOVE: > > > > > >"If the victims of genocides cannot depend on the support of the > > >descendants of the Holocaust - where on earth will anyone ever find truth > > >and justice? > > > > > >When this column started around three years ago, one of the first people > I > > >went to meet and write about was Prof. Deborah Lipstadt. She's the > > >historian who had just won a place for herself in Jewish legend by > > >demolishing once and for all - with the aid of the splendid British > > >justice Charles Gray - the lies of Holocaust denier David Irving, who had > > >sued her for libel and lost. > > > > > >Lipstadt was full of praise for the way she had been sustained during the > > >long court ordeal by a staunchly supportive media - after all, fighting > > >neo-Nazi lies is for all human dignity and safety as well as for Jewish > > >justice. How sickening therefore is it to watch the disgusting > > >machinations of the Jewish state when it comes to its cowardly refusal to > > >speak out stridently against the deniers of the Armenian genocide. If the > > >victims of genocides cannot depend on the support of the descendants of > > >the Holocaust - when on earth will anyone ever find truth and justice > > >anywhere? > > > > > >After a newspaper item appeared on Sunday saying that a government > > >brochure mentioned that a "third generation survivor of the Armenian > > >holocaust in 1915" would light a torch at the Independence Day ceremony, > > >Turkish embassy hysteria went into its customary overdrive in protest. > > > > > >In a remarkable act of craven capitulation to denial, the Knesset and > > >government caved in and actually printed 2,000 new brochures for the > > >ceremony. The revisionist version of history expunged the truth and > > >replaced it with a description of the torch-lighter Naomi Nalbandian as a > > >"daughter of the long-suffering Armenian people" and her grandparents as > > >"survivors of historical Armenia, 1915." > > > > > >The Ottoman Empire ethnically cleansed and murdered 1.5 million Armenians > > >between 1915 and 1918. The Turkish army drove hundreds of thousands of > > >Armenians through the Der Zor desert where they died from hunger and > > >thirst. What is more, the government sanctioned raids by Turkish > soldiers, > > >who destroyed whole Armenian villages, not sparing even the women or the > > >children. The Armenian population was completely wiped out in Western > > >Armenia. About 600,000 survived and now live in various countries of the > > >world (including modern Armenia). > > > > > >Modern Turkey continues to vehemently deny these crimes against humanity > > >and fights ferociously around the globe to bury the historical facts. And > > >again this week - and not for the first time - we have witnessed the > State > > >of Israel's complicity in the lie, because it is scared of upsetting its > > >only friend in the Muslim states. This is political expediency at its > most > > >morally bankrupt. Tripping over itself in its stupid defense of the > > >untenable Turkish position, the Israeli Foreign Ministry has again and > > >again played an active role in suppressing even discussion of the issue. > > > > > >"Outrageous," is how Deborah Lipstadt, the defeater of deniers, has > > >described the Turkish denial. "The Turks have managed to structure this > > >debate so that people question whether this really happened." Now > > >shouldn't that sound familiar to any Jewish ear? A few months before she > > >smashed Irving, Lipstadt was one of 150 scholars and writers who signed a > > >Washington Post ad condemning Turkey's persistent denial of the Armenian > > >genocide. Among the others signing was no less a person than Prof. Yehuda > > >Bauer, the academic director of Yad Vashem. "We and many others have > > >accepted the United Nations definition of genocide and there can be no > > >argument about [the Armenian case] being genocide," he said at the time. > > > > > >"I am an Armenian and I have no right to say what is my identity," said > > >Nalbandian after the government and the Turks told her what she had > really > > >meant to say - and would say. She added: "They don't say to second and > > >third generations of Holocaust survivors `don't say that,' do they?" What > > >if the rest of the world behaved as cravenly in the face of Holocaust > > >deniers as Israeli officials do in the face of the Turks? > > > > > >During a similar row several years ago the then Armenian foreign minister > > >said in an interview: "There is some discrepancy between Israel's words > > >and their deeds on genocide. Israel has to show a moral authority since > we > > >have gone through a similar history and experience. What is shocking is > > >that there should be any question whatsoever of Israel denying the murder > > >of a nation. The sooner the Turks come clean, admit the crimes of their > > >great-grandparents, and get it over with, the better for all humanity. > > > > > >The British for many decades denied responsibility for the Irish potato > > >famine that killed an estimated two million people and sent another two > > >million into exile - because it was a natural disaster - although history > > >recorded full well that the British were taking convoys of food out of > > >Ireland under armed guard. It took Tony Blair to admit responsibility 150 > > >years later, and apologize, to lay the shame to rest. > > > > > >Turkey's denials of the Armenian massacre will not endure - but the > memory > > >of Israel's refusal to speak out against the denial just might. "Who, > > >after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?" asked > Adolf > > >Hitler when persuading his fellow thugs that a Jewish extermination would > > >be tolerated by the West. > > > > > >Of course there is one Turk you can quote who still commands almost > > >reverential respect from his fellow countryman - Kemal Ataturk, the > > >legendary founder of the modern nation. In an interview published on > > >August 1, 1926 in The Los Angeles Examiner, Ataturk talked about the > > >former Young Turks in his country: "These left-overs from the former > Young > > >Turk Party, who should have been made to account for the millions of our > > >Christian subjects who were ruthlessly driven en masse from their homes > > >and massacred, have been restive under the Republican rule." When we have > > >the word of Ataturk himself, we don't need to be accused of "pandering to > > >the views of the enemies and haters of Turks" as one Turkish diplomat > once > > >wrote to me for daring to question the lie. I assume he meant the Kurds - > > >who for decades "didn't exist" either in Turkish myth except as "mountain > > >Turks." > > > > > >The three rulers of Turkey as a triumvirate during the time of the > > >genocide were Cemal Pasha, Enver Pasha and Talat Pasha. Of them, British > > >Viscount James Bryce said in a speech on October 6, 1915: "The massacres > > >are the result of a policy which, as far as can be ascertained, has been > > >entertained for some considerable time by the gang of unscrupulous > > >adventurers who are now in possession of the government of the Turkish > > >Empire." > > > > > >After the German ambassador persistently brought up the Armenian question > > >in 1918, Talat Pasha said "with a smile": "What on earth do you want? The > > >question is settled. There are no more Armenians." > > > > > >Later, Prince Abdul Mecid, the heir apparent to the Ottoman Throne, said > > >during an interview: "I refer to those awful massacres. They are the > > >greatest stain that has ever disgraced our nation and race. They were > > >entirely the work of Talat and Enver. I heard some days before they began > > >that they were intended. I went to Istanbul and insisted on seeing Enver. > > >I asked him if it was true that they intended to recommence the massacres > > >that had been our shame and disgrace under Abdul Hamid. The only reply I > > >could get from him was: `It is decided. It is the program.'" > > > > > >Keep on denying, folks. But remember, the dead won't let you forget." > > >Haaretz, May 12, 2003 > > > > > >NOTE: The Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies is currently > > >negotiating with the Zoryan Institute to hold the summer workshop on the > > >Armenian Genocide at the University of Minnesota during 2004. > > > > > > > > >Dr. Stephen Feinstein, Director > > >Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies > > >University of Minnesota > > >100 Nolte Hall West > > >315 Pillsbury Drive > > >Minneapolis, MN. 55455 > > >Phone: (612) 626-2235 > > >FAX: (612) 626-9169 > > >email: feins001@tc.umn.edu > > >WEB SITE: http://www.chgs.umn.edu > > > > > > > > >************************************************************************ > > >* "Step out of history * > > >* to enter life * > > >* just try that-all of you, * > > >* you'll get it then." * > > >* * > > >* Charlotte Delbo, from "The Measure of Our Days." * > > >* * > > >************************************************************************ > > > > > > -- > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 03:50:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: GOING OUT OF BOOG-NIZ SALE*--Everything Must Go, Part I MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We're cleaning the shelves here at Boog City, everything from Alice Notley t= o=20 Ed Sanders, Kristin Prevallet to Jordan Davis, Robert Creeley to Eileen=20 Myles, Allen Ginsberg to Magdalena Zurawski, d.a. levy to Lee Ann Brown.=20 Everything is marked down, except for the last issues of the long-dead zine=20 ManAlive! (MA!), with holograph covers by Ginsberg, Eileen Myles, Amiri=20 Baraka, and Bernadette Mayer.=20 Please make check or money order payable to Boog City and include $1.50=20 postage for initial item and 50=C2=A2 thereafter; please add an additional $= 2 for=20 poster tube if you are ordering a tabloid-size broadside.Int'l. folks, use=20 your judgment. mail to: David Kirschenbaum, editor Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 Below is a list of available publications (when stock is five or less, pleas= e=20 email to reserve your copy prior to posting check): --ManAlive! (MA!) #1, September 1992, $15 (last copy of only print run of 100) digest size, 16 pages, cardstock cover, saddle-stapled Includes: =E2=80=A2Allen Ginsberg cover holograph poem =E2=80=A2poems by Ed Sanders, Chris Funkhouser, Bill Shields, Bruce Burrows,= Dan=20 Wilcox, and Patrick McKinnon =E2=80=A2reviews of Sonic Youth, All, and Chris Mars. --ManAlive! (MA!) #3, March 1993, $10 (last two copies of only print run of 100) digest size, 24 pages, glossy red spot-color cover, saddle-stapled Includes: =E2=80=A2Elliot Richman cover holograph poem on a Scot Hacker collage =E2=80=A2Emmett Grogan's son Max on his dad, the late Digger cofounder, 15 y= ears=20 after his death =E2=80=A2poems from Carla Harryman, Beth Borrus, Laynie Browne, and David Ba= ratier =E2=80=A2Chris Funkhouser on the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy =E2=80=A2interview with John Strohm (ex-Blake Babies) on his band Antenna, w= ith=20 holograph lyrics to his song Shine --ManAlive! (MA!) #4, June 1993, $10 (last two copies of only print run of 100) digest size, 20 pages, cardstock cover, saddle-stapled Includes: =E2=80=A2Amiri Baraka cover holograph poem on a Scot Hacker collage =E2=80=A2Chris Funkhouser reviewing a Bay Area TAZ =E2=80=A2a partial discography of the Fugs =E2=80=A2art by Madeleine Hope (Meg) Arthurs =E2=80=A2Bob Geldof review =E2=80=A2poems by Julia Vinograd, Roddy Potter, and Jim DeWitt --ManAlive! (MA!) #6, March 1994, $10 (last copy of second print run of 40; initial print run was 100) digest size, 40 pages, cardstock cover, saddle-stapled Includes: =E2=80=A2Bernadette Mayer cover holograph poem in Meg Arthurs' art =E2=80=A2poems from John M. Bennett, Kent Taylor, and Tom Nattell =E2=80=A2Best of 1993, with reviews of The Vibrators, Aimee Mann, Antenna, J= uliana=20 Hatfield, the Blake Babies, Belly, the Breeders, Elvis Costello, the=20 Lemonheads, 10,000 Maniacs, Gil Scott-Heron, Banana Yoshimoto, Factsheet=20 Five, Hyena =E2=80=A2Karin Falcone art =E2=80=A2Meryn Cadell interview =E2=80=A2reviews of Sun Ra, Paul Westerberg, Stew, and Poetry Motel --Winter Solstice Gathering assemblage zine, December 18, 1999, $8 signed/$4= =20 unsigned (only run of 65 copies, 20 of which are numbered and signed by all of the=20 contributors, excluding the cover artists) Letter size, 17 pages, cardstock cover, three-hole punched, bound with twine Includes: =E2=80=A2front cover art by Madeleine Hope (Meg) Arthurs =E2=80=A2back cover art by Wendy Kramer =E2=80=A2poems by Neal Climenhaga, Sue Landers, and Jeni Olin =E2=80=A265 different, handcrafted submissions by Kimberly Wilder. --Alice Notley broadside, =E2=80=9CPoem=E2=80=9D, November 13, 2000, $4 card= stock/$2 paper (only print run of 150 copies, 26 of which were signed and lettered; signed=20 edition sold out) Letter-sized, four-color broadside, on glossy cardstock or plain paper=20 Artwork by Richard O=E2=80=99Russa --Robert Creeley broadside, =E2=80=9CCambridge, Mass 1944=E2=80=9D, $9 ($4.5= 0 of which goes=20 to the Poetry Project at St. Mark=E2=80=99s Church in-the-Bowery) second printing of 26 copies, all signed and lettered by the author; initial= =20 print run was 26.=20 Tabloid sized, two-color broadside, on glossy cardstock Linoleum cut and design by Daisy DeCapite --Eileen Myles broadside, =E2=80=9CCat=E2=80=9D, $9 Only printing of 26 copies, all signed and lettered by the author (only two=20 remain) Tabloid sized, two-color broadside, on glossy cardstock Artwork by Helen Miranda Wilson Boog Calendars 2000 --Lee Ann Brown, =E2=80=9CCento Century=E2=80=9D, $8 signed, $6 unsigned Only printing of 100 copies, 26 of which were signed and lettered by the poe= t=20 and artist. Tabloid sized, purple text on white glossy cardstock art by Madeleine Hope (Meg) Arthurs. 2001 --d.a. levy, artwork by Gary Sullivan, includes excerpts from =E2=80=9COde t= o the=20 Cuyahoga=E2=80=9D, $8 signed by Sullivan Only printing of 100 copies, 26 of which were signed and lettered by the poe= t=20 and artist. Tabloid sized, four-color on white glossy cardstock 2002 --Brendan Lorber, artwork and poem, =E2=80=9CReticuli=E2=80=9D, $8 Only printing of 100 copies, all of which were signed and numbered by the=20 author/artist. Tabloid sized, two-color on white glossy cardstock Part II of this sale will be posted later today, including=20 =E2=80=A2chapbooks by Ed Sanders, Amiri Baraka, Bill Shields, Sean Cole, Pra= geeta=20 Sharma, Ed Berrigan, Barry Gifford, Forrest Gander, Michael Magee, Scot=20 Hacker, Phineas St. George, D. Alexander Holiday, Jeffrey Winke, Arielle=20 Greenberg, Ethan Fugate, Susan Mitchell, and Hoa Nguyen/Dale Smith =E2=80=A2Portable Boog Reader (New York and Philadelphia editions) =E2=80=A2instant zines from the first Boston Alternative Poetry Conference (= 1998) and=20 the 1995 New Year=E2=80=99s Day marathon at the Poetry Project =E2=80=A2Booglite=E2=80=99s in conjunction with Chanukah, the Unauguration,=20= and Poetry as=20 Cultural Critique conference =E2=80=A2baseball poetry one-shot zine =E2=80=A2postcards from Ethel Rackin, Jordan Davis, Dan Bouchard, Marcella D= urand,=20 Magdalena Zurawski, Laynie Browne, and Eleni Sikelianos =E2=80=A2Lee Ann Brown Boogmark =E2=80=A2Anselm Berrigan baseball card =E2=80=A2anthologies Booglit All Stars and Zaftig: Sex Poetry and Prose =E2=80=A2=E2=80=9Chey d.a. levy=E2=80=9D broadside =E2=80=A2Boog City, issues one through seven.=20 (Offer not valid for institutions.) *This is an NYC going out-of-business sale, meaning we're just cleaning our=20 shelves of back stock to make room for, and help raise money to fund, the ne= w=20 publications due in the coming months. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 05:47:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Armenian Genocide... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This a looong thread 2000 yrs & counting it's the JEWS fault.. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 07:08:12 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Leonard Michaels MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/13/obituaries/13MICH.html ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 04:40:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0005-#0007 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0005-#0007 it? Might it not it? Might it not been at war with been at war with been at war with wondering what wondering what it? Might it not then shall be then shall be the the the can't be wise all can't be wise all then shall be with a something of with a something of struggling. Within struggling. Within struggling. Within gone with other gone with other with a something of disinterested in disinterested in Observe Mouna for a Observe Mouna for a Observe Mouna for a echoes of echoes of disinterested in consciousness; consciousness; In our less than In our less than In our less than into the sensory. into the sensory. consciousness; NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0006 drag this sick drag this sick and southwest and southwest and southwest "At one time I "At one time I drag this sick long hard stroke of long hard stroke of Sue Ann as Miranda Sue Ann as Miranda Sue Ann as Miranda Will a Jivanmukta Will a Jivanmukta long hard stroke of Alexander's way Alexander's way cellar, the jail, cellar, the jail, cellar, the jail, gathering vine gathering vine Alexander's way the frowning the frowning seemed to sense a seemed to sense a seemed to sense a it's a Greek girl, it's a Greek girl, the frowning her ear. He knows her ear. He knows own hands in the own hands in the own hands in the blasted the Monster- blasted the Monster- her ear. He knows the bell-toned the bell-toned desperately to what desperately to what desperately to what the bell-toned others. Each has others. Each has others. Each has which terminated in which terminated in NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0007 Terry's took hold Terry's took hold dollars to small dollars to small dollars to small repeating the repeating the Terry's took hold mountain, the mountain, the mountain, the was no more fish was no more fish Lucius," he said to Lucius," he said to eyes--is filled eyes--is filled eyes--is filled the main support the main support Lucius," he said to "I see pride in "I see pride in little kitten at little kitten at little kitten at the face. And, the face. And, "I see pride in him round. He then -Vijayam and Bhakta him round. He then -Vijayam and Bhakta this position, they this position, they this position, they hilariously funny hilariously funny him round. He then -Vijayam and Bhakta --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/6/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 04:43:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0008-#0010 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0008-#0010 On we raced; we On we raced; we thinned with time. thinned with time. thinned with time. surpassing all surpassing all On we raced; we shooting him shooting him strips/test kits strips/test kits strips/test kits shooting him localities, as in localities, as in to curl up. to curl up. to curl up. living-and you are living-and you are localities, as in to give utterance to give utterance stroked. Then I stroked. Then I stroked. Then I "You are not as "You are not as to give utterance Well, this is like Well, this is like store to support store to support store to support "He is a man of war, "He is a man of war, Well, this is like this eventful this eventful - at the end of - at the end of - at the end of debauchee, the debauchee, the this eventful numinous fast -pulse--as though I numinous fast -pulse--as though I Now, if you stand Now, if you stand Now, if you stand abstain abstain numinous fast -pulse--as though I NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0009 old bishop used to old bishop used to so nice to be able so nice to be able so nice to be able imbued with wisdom imbued with wisdom old bishop used to difficulties and difficulties and march in Italy. Let march in Italy. Let march in Italy. Let difficulties and regiment or so for regiment or so for him. Presently he him. Presently he him. Presently he your man at twelve your man at twelve regiment or so for tolerance of a tolerance of a tolerance of a upon his errand, upon his errand, hair. The hearts of hair. The hearts of cried the old cried the old cried the old whose head sits whose head sits hair. The hearts of from head to foot, from head to foot, Ethiopian, and as Ethiopian, and as Ethiopian, and as worn outcasts close worn outcasts close from head to foot, And it is this mind, And it is this mind, Service Medal; Service Medal; Service Medal; whispers, as if whispers, as if And it is this mind, in the negative, he in the negative, he Eshana can happen. Eshana can happen. Eshana can happen. NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0010 1. ineffable ecstasy ineffable ecstasy the destruction of the destruction of the destruction of temper, by temper, by ineffable ecstasy Christians, and Christians, and ever fucked my ever fucked my ever fucked my inquiry. He inquiry. He Christians, and understandable understandable but impulse all but impulse all but impulse all there, held in the there, held in the understandable Here, as then, a Here, as then, a is determined to is determined to is determined to shaking at each shaking at each Here, as then, a technology to technology to Detain him in the Detain him in the Detain him in the she realised, too, she realised, too, technology to 2. still be some areas still be some areas that moment I that moment I that moment I summer breeze, the summer breeze, the still be some areas attention to her - attention to her - thousand feet high thousand feet high thousand feet high flaming hell's own flaming hell's own attention to her - striving for striving for with a very ill with a very ill with a very ill doing of it. doing of it. striving for grace. 'Now, man, grace. 'Now, man, "Be my guest my man, "Be my guest my man, "Be my guest my man, seat, 'if you'll seat, 'if you'll grace. 'Now, man, language capability language capability of the case of the case of the case then the "Valiant then the "Valiant language capability she asked herself. she asked herself. walls of the castle. walls of the castle. she asked herself. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/6/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 07:54:16 -0400 Reply-To: adlevy@slought.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Levy Subject: This Week: Seven Veils at Slought Foundation; May 15-16, 2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Slought Foundation, Philadelphia (http://slought.org) in conjunction with Chain Arts, is pleased to announce the two-night premier of "SEVEN VEILS (Poetry in Moving Media)," a multimedia dance-theater piece based on an adaptation of "Salome" by Thalia Field (Point and Line, New Directions 2000). Innovative choral music composed by Philadelphia-based Alexander DeVaron provides a complex and often humorous sonic atmosphere for Jamie Jewett's quirky amalgam of release, butoh and contemporary indonesian dance styles. SEVEN VEILS (A Night of Poetry in Moving Media) By Thalia Field, Jamie Jewett, Alexander Devaron May 15, 2003 – May 16, 2003 8:00 pm - 10:00 pm Event location: Slought Foundation (4017 Walnut, Philadelphia) Event fee: $7.00 ($5 w/ Student ID) Reservation not required. Event Series curated by Jena Osman with Aaron Levy Full information and biographies available online: http://slought.org/toc/calendar/display.php?key=dimensional Press release and additional information available online (PDF): http://slought.org/files/downloads/events/SF_2003[sevenveils].pdf http://slought.org/toc/archives/display4.php?id=10214 Slought Foundation, Philadelphia encourages new futures for contemporary life through art and theory. "Dimensional Text" is an event series collaboration between Chain Arts and Slought Foundation. The dimensional text series is an investigation into the ways that language can be presented off the page. It presents language work that steps away from the book, the podium, the conventional reading or performance. For more information about Slought Foundation or SEVEN VEILS, contact Aaron Levy: SLOUGHT FOUNDATION 4017 Walnut Street Philadelphia, PA 19104-3513 Phone/fax: 215 746 4239 http://slought.org info@slought.org Biographies: Thalia Field's collection, POINT AND LINE, was published in 2000 by New Directions. Her second book, INCARNATE: STORY MATERIAL is forthcoming with New Directions in 2004 and a multimedia novel, ULULU (SHRAPNEL SCENES), with film stills by Bill Morrison, is forthcoming from Coffee House Press in 2005. Thalia's performance writing and essays have been published in Theater magazine and she was a Senior Editor for several years at Conjunctions where she guest-edited an issue (#28) devoted to experimental music-theater. Thalia has taught at Bard College, Naropa University and currently teaches in Brown's Creative Writing program. In 1998 she co-founded the Summer Writing and Performance Project at Perseverance Theater in Juneau, AK. Jamie Jewett holds a BA in Movement and Buddhist Studies from Naropa University and an MFA in Dance and Technology from the Ohio State University. His dance background includes intensive study of Butoh, and he has performed at the Joyce Theatre as a company member of Popo and The Go Go Boys, as well as works by Bebe Miller, David Rousseve and others. A certified teacher of the Shambhala Dharma Arts, Jewett’s work is deeply influenced by Eastern philosophy of composition. In 2000, Jewett was awarded a grant from USINDO (the US Indonesian Foundation) to apprentice with Suprapto Suryodarmo, a contemporary Indonesian Master of dance, ritual performance and installation art. Through this relationship, Jewett has taught and performed at a variety of festivals in Java, Bali, New York and Boulder. Jewett's intermedia dance, "Snowblind", was commissioned by University of Michigan's IMMEDIA festival in 2002 and his dance-film, "Auslander", was selected as part of Lincoln Center's Danc! e on Camera festival and the Wexner Center's Ohio Film and Video Festival. Alexander deVaron holds degrees from Connecticut Wesleyan University and Indiana University, where his teachers included Alvin Lucier, Richard Winslow, Eugene Brien, and David Dzubay. His works have been performed In Canada, Europe and throughout the United States. He is the 2003 winner of the Network For New Music Poetry Project competition, and his music has been featured by such ensembles as the Tufts New Music Ensemble, the Seattle New Music Ensemble and the New England Conservatory Cammerata. Over the last twenty years, Mr. deVaron has combined his study of music with the study of Buddhism and meditation. Over the course of these years, he has worked closely with the composer Peter Lieberson to explore the meeting place of these two traditions. Currently he is pursuing a doctoral degree at Temple University, where he studies with Maurice Wright and Richard Brodhead. Cast: Sara Vasiliou, Dancer. Laurissa Backlin, Soprano. Gabrielle Rosse, Alto. Carlos Tovar, Tenor. Cailin Manson, Bass. Stage chorus: Deborah Richards, Kamili Feelings. Stage manager: Patrick Scanlon. Lighting designer: Mark O'Maley. Costume desinger: Pilar Limosner. Additional video help: Yi-Jiin Lin, Nicholas Freilich, Seema Goel. Special thanks: Abby Stranahan, Dave Ward, Barbara Reo. Thalia Field, Text. Jamie Jewett, Choreography/Video. Alex deVaron, Composition. Full information and biographies available online: http://slought.org/toc/calendar/display.php?key=dimensional Press release and additional information available online (PDF): http://slought.org/files/downloads/events/SF_2003[sevenveils].pdf http://slought.org/toc/archives/display4.php?id=10214 --------------- 9529 minutes (159 hours) of recorded audio are currently online and available in the Slought Foundation archives, including Olson, Ginsberg, Libeskind and Zizek. Visit us on the web at: http://slought.org/toc/archives/ --- To subscribe to list Slought Announcements: http://slought.org/toc/subscribe/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:19:12 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/10/03 1:01:22 PM, joe.amato@COLORADO.EDU writes: << anyway, one of the things that i'm concerned about, too, is how the discipline of english studies tends to discipline speculation regarding that which is not language (assuming we can at least point to such a thing)... clearly poets have, in what some will say is their occasionally benighted states, presumed an outside to language, which of course entails language but does not consist solely *of* language, is not reducible to language, etc., and which is not simply about the knowledge that comes of signs, either (spicer's theory of correspondence might fit this bill, >> Sorry, Joe, that it has taken me so long to respond. We're limited to a double dose per day by the list. End of semester push also has put me behind. Anyway, I found your post pretty interesting and agree with your take on Spicer. I'm also with you that many poets--likely most of them before modernism, and many during and since--presume an outside to language. The key word here, of course, is "presume." Actually I wouldn't argue that such an outside exists, i.e., that Being transcends man's knowledge. I would argue that it doesn't exist for us, for man, outside of language. I've always thought of Keats' "Ode to A Nightingale" as forward looking. Aside from the influence of his inebriated state, Keat's fleeting epiphany is ultimately created and contained by the poem itself, by language. Thanks for the give and take. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:25:38 +0800 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ravi Shankar Subject: Review of Daniel Bosch and Sean Singer - First Books Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Check out: http://www.cprw.com/Shankar/bosch.htm *************** Ravi Shankar Poet-in-Residence Assistant Professor CCSU - English Dept. 860-832-2766 shankarr@ccsu.edu -- _______________________________________________ Get your free email from http://www.graffiti.net Powered by Outblaze ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:34:06 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/11/03 3:00:56 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << Do you mean simply that there's no clear subject, and he takes up one speaker after another, without clear transitions? -- Kirby >> Great post, Kirby. Olson intrigues me also. I do mean that the subject is never self-identical, that as soon as we know it, know of it, it dresses like an object. And that slippage is a crucial aspect of the subject's definition without which there would be no subject. Focusing on the subject, we see an object. Focusing on the object, we see the subject. This is because these concepts are interdependent, relying on each other for their cogency. And I am not describing here a simple binary. Each concept "contains" the other. The binary does not operate "between" two things, but "within" each thing where the relational field involves all signs, not merely two. This, by the way, was one crucial "discovery" that shifted us from structuralism to poststructuralism. As for Einstein, he hasn't been wiped out by a long shot. However, recent claims within the scientific community that the speed of light is not constant haven't done him any good. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:05:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Ted Joans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi folks. Doing a favor for David Amram, who is trying to get information to Ted's companion. From David's email: "Can you find out how I could get in touch with Ted's companion to send my love and do anything I can for his memory. Ted is the one who called me in 1969 and left a message on my machine that Jack had died. We were old friends from the begining of it all. I have great video of him and I performing a long improvised rap duet together at NYU in 1994, which his estate should have a copy of." If anyone has address, phone, etc., please backchannel, and I'll send it along to David. Thanks. --Anastasios ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:43:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick LoLordo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm looking for a text that would serve as a nuts & bolts guide to reading strategies in an intro to poetry course--audience mostly non-English majors, state university students, older than average average age. I've tried various things, nothing altogether satisfies...What have people have found to work well teaching poetry at an introductory level? All suggestions considered with gratitude! Nick ---------- V. Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor University of Nevada-Las Vegas Department of English 4504 Maryland Parkway Las Vegas, NV 89154-5011 (702) 895-3623 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:47:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: poetry text MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Nick, Make up your own reader. Anthologies are never sufficient, especially for the students you describe. If you pick your favorite poems, your passion for them will propel your teaching. Close reading of twenty poems all semester from different eras and cultures is better than perusing a whole book. Best, Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:21:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: In Memoriam Richard Caddel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A gathering of tributes to Richard Caddel, who died on 1 April, is now up and running at http://jacketmagazine/22/caddel/html Thanks. Peter Quartermain ======================== He that oppresseth the Poor to increase his Riches, and he that giveth to the Rich, shall surely come to Want. Thomas Dilworth. A New Guide to the English Tongue. In Five Parts. Designed for the Use of the SCHOOLS in Great Britain, Ireland, and in the several English Colonies and Plantations abroad. 1740. ======================== Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC V6A 1Y7 phone 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:44:46 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: In Memoriam Richard Caddel -- correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ooops! Sorry. I left out a .com The corrected address is below A gathering of tributes to Richard Caddel, who died on 1 April, is now up and running at http://jacketmagazine.com/22/caddel.html Thanks. Peter Quartermain ======================== Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC V6A 1Y7 phone 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:08:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lipman, Joel A." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Nick -- Gather your faves, representing varied poetries. Ask students to = bring in copies of their favorites & explain why they care about those = poems. Have each student keep a 3-ring binder and build your teachable = text out of poems and by poets you have an interest in and that you care = about. With anthologies you have to explain away why you choose to not = use so many of the inclusions, while with your own every poem gets put = into play. Try to include visual poems, work in translation, spatial = poetries, sound poetry and performance pieces. Use tapes, CD's or other = audio-visual formats. With older, state university students I find = clarity, mature themes [cancer, loss, occupations & labor, adult love, = etc.] are especially valued examples. JL -----Original Message----- From: Nick LoLordo [mailto:lolordov@UNLV.EDU] Sent: Tue 5/13/2003 12:43 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Cc:=09 Subject:=09 I'm looking for a text that would serve as a nuts & bolts guide to = reading strategies in an intro to poetry course--audience mostly non-English = majors, state university students, older than average average age. I've tried = various things, nothing altogether satisfies...What have people have found to = work well teaching poetry at an introductory level? All suggestions considered = with gratitude! Nick ---------- V. Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor University of Nevada-Las Vegas Department of English 4504 Maryland Parkway Las Vegas, NV 89154-5011 (702) 895-3623 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:10:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: U.S. Stipulates Broader Control Of Iraqi Oil On Behalf Of U.S. Corporate Interes Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press U.S. Stipulates Broader Control Of Iraqi Oil On Behalf Of U.S. Corporate Interests: Stolen Iraqi Oil, No Links To WMD, No Links to 9/11, Iraq No Threat To U.S.---Americans Duped!---What A Surprise!: Is The Chicken Shit U.S. Citizenry Too Terrified At The Power Of The Cheney/Bush Criminal Conspiracy To Hold Them To Account?: After Going AWOL On the Real Thing, Bush Dons Military Garb And The Little Man Looks Just Like Dukakis By COLUMNBONE LYNCHMOB Assassinated Press Staff Writer Friday, May 9, 2003; 11:50 AM ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 11:24:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The Pleasure Is All Mine Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , thingist , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/sound/LewisLaCook_ThePleasureIsAllMine.mp3 computer noize (no instruments were harmed during the making of this mp3) NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:12:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: aaron tieger Subject: Art New England INAUGURAL READING MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii ART NEW ENGLAND is very excited to present an INAUGURAL READING. Saturday, May 17 2003 7:00 pm Wordsworth Books Harvard Square, Cambridge, MA Featuring: Mark Lamoureux (Boston), Anna Moschovakis (Brooklyn), Sean Cole (Boston). Free! (apologies for any cross-posting) ===== " My vagabondage is unlonelied by poems." Fanny Howe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:18:24 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Royal Honey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed a large hand-fan of blood .... A A A A A A A A A A A A whistling blank regular surely / cocked difference includes the preceding line of capitals you can get more A if you don't mention A, so mention Claude Gueux # do you, Claude, touch that which we bow towards & obey even then the microscope of hatred? # Claude Gueux, King of Thieves, your sepulcher is not an idea whose time has come your tomb, lout, opens not inwards but out with an infant's breath # there is the sky. derived from old age there is one thing stronger than all the grace of youth, Claude Gueux is one thing stronger than the grace of youth one thing, still everything yields to be said # do, Claude, suffer a biographical account of dawn, flower, & what of "In the GRAVE is the GRAVE & you, Claude, to the dews of the dew" # a brief analysis of spirits flown: Claude Gueux {X} # I'm building an index on this wee child of Claude Gueux who saps this index rests upon our eyes the index title is NO ROAD TO DAMASCUS # triple row of air plashed with suns at bay third volume of a history of pointy teeth trio of Claude Gueux, Royal Honey, & "A" # the corner of the corner of snow, cornerstone, marble turns to snow - for solace, Ol' Claude, or is't a metamorphosis? # I dreamed, Claude, that a list of my sins was being read on the Gong Show # stupid ass! Claude Gueux let people alone! he stepped into so much a later period than the hawk and her prospects! he opened the light down to the tone for NOBODY if not for YOU, fitted so tight into his waistcoat pocket _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:30:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: travis ortiz Subject: Small Press Extravaganza, Diesel Books (Oakland) -- May 18 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Atelos will be participating in a Small Press Extravaganza this Sunday (May 18) at Diesel Books in Oakland. M. Mara-Ann will be reading from her recent Atelos book, _lighthouse_. Come check out this great event organized by Elizabeth Robinson. Here's the flyer info: Small Press Extravaganza Sunday May 18th -- 2:00 PM at Diesel Bookstore 5433 College Avenue Oakland, California Participating Presses include: Apogee, Atelos, Big Fan, EtherDome, Five Fingers Review, Kelsey Street Press, Omnidawn, Owl Press, Xantippe Magazine, and 26 Magazine. With readings by: Kevin Killian, M. Mara-Ann, Margaret Butterfield, Tsering Wangmo Dhompa, Denise Lawson, Julia Bloch, Kevin Opstedal, and more. *** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:02:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: The Rumsfeld Tablet Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Last week, Cecilia Vicuna asked me to read from Armand Schwerner's *The Tablets* (Orono, Maine: National Poetry Foundation, 1999) at an event she was organizing at New York's Poets House on May 12 to protest, and lament, the looting of the Baghdad museum, and other cultural sites. Schwerner's Tablets is based on a scholar/translator's reconstruction of a set of Sumero-Arkkadian clay tables from 4,000 years ago, as Schwerner frames the poem, which is, nonetheless, entirely his own creation. The event opened with a presentation by Marc Van De Mieroop, of Columbia University, in which he speculated that the destruction of artifacts that took place in Iraq last month was part of an American program to wipe out the cultural past of Iraq. I presented an alternative, equally dark, speculation: that the destruction might not be the result of a deliberate American campaign to target Iraqi antiquities but rather a product of the brutal indifference to culture, foreign and domestic, that has been the hallmark of the current Executive Branch of the U.S. government. The evening consisted largely of readings in translation of contemporary Iraqui poets, almost all poets in exile. Schwerner, who was born in Belgium in 1929 and came to the U.S. a decade later, is also a poet of exile, but one who became an American poet; indeed, a native American poet, if you believe, as I do, that exile is a native, indeed foundational, experience for American poetry. A few days after I received Cecilia's invitation, something odd occurred. A received an email from a trusted confederate in the Washington, D.C. area, that a new Tablet had been discovered in the subbasement level below the residence of Paul Wolfowitz. Startling news. Although we can't yet be sure of authenticity of the Tablet and our verification team has not been given enough time with the Tablet to verify it preliminary evidence suggests that this Tablet is the work of Donald Rumsfeld and that it was composed between April 10 and 12. After reading Schwerner's "Tablet II", I gave the first public reading of the "Rumsfeld Tablet": +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++missing part++++++++++++++++++++++ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:14:42 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Theory of Practice according to the Dalai Lama MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I loved the Rakosi poem, but don't think there is any way out of theory except to learn it and then try to deal with all the problems. In graduate school I was plagued by this problem of the subject (it has no attributes, and therefore it doesn't exist, the logic went). I had a lot of good theory profs many of them French at the U. of Washington at the time. Now most of them have fled for more monied pastures. At any rate, they confused me a lot. During this time I happened to go to the Seattle Center and see the Dalai Lama. I don't know if he could be said to have philosophical standing. That is, he is not a trained philosopher, but in the questions I asked him if he read French philosophy (he was living in France at the time) and whether he knew about the problems of the subject, about whether or not there was a real world, or whether the world was only language, and to my amazement, he said he liked to read contemporary French philosophy, and he laughed. I can't repeat verbatim what he said, but he said that in Buddhism many of the issues of contemporary French philosophy were wiped off the board 500 years ago, and he said that in order to have a community worth living in you need to have four (un-provable) axioms. 1. The individual subject exists. 2. The real world exists. 3. There is causality between the individual subject and the real world. 4. Every living thing suffers. He said that unless a community agreed on these four postulates it's not going to be a community worth living in. He said that those four things are like axioms in geometry, postulates. That is, they are givens. And as such, they are fictional, and you can't go below them and give reasons for their existence. It is the implications that come out of them that matter. I've thought about this in the decade since he said that stuff and more and more think he's just plain right. I'm no Buddhist, but those folks (or at least he) have nailed some things. I'm not sure if these four things make sense to others, and why he claims they are necessary axioms in a community, but the main thing is that I think they emphasize that real people are in a community together, and they are all suffering all of the time. The implication of this is that we have to have a sense of compassion and responsibility. Without that, no sense of community. So he actually posited a fictional subject for the purposes of begetting a real community. It seems to me the French are too dependent on logic in spite of their claiming all power to the imagination. A good part of the foundations of philosophy is fictional, like the axioms in geometry and can't be logically founded. I'm going in circles. The Dalai Lama managed to get me situated, but I don't think you can really quote him in a poetics discussion as having the standing of say Foucault or Derrida, can you? Can you quote the Dalai Lama? The question of who has standing is curious. Somehow if you look at the life as fruit of the philosophy I think the DL is better than MF or GD, but again I think this could maybe be put down as ad hominem. I'm amused by MF and GD, but DL is a thing of wonder -- although what happened to his country should be added to the list of 20th century atrocities. Somehow we can't really prove whether experience is made of language or has some kind of substance behind, some experiencing subject, but the implications that come out of the axiomatic postulates nevertheless have real consequences. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:29:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Theory of Practice according to the Dalai Lama Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3EC15232.527B7404@delhi.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 5/13/03 1:14 PM, Kirby Olson at olsonjk@DELHI.EDU wrote: > I'm no Buddhist I liked your post and the philo/religious questions it raises. I think I am right, however, in wanting to suggest caution on the above expression (perhaps used as a typical Americano way of saying we are not affiliated or compromised by devotion or membership in an hierarchical or whatever org?). My knowledge of Buddhism - still small - is that it is a practice (a process of mindfulness or paying attention - interior & exterior). No one ever is "a Buddhist." There is nothing static about it. Distinctions I hear when someone says, 'I am a poet' as different from "I write poetry.' Or as a "poet" who just came back from a month of giving University readings tells me, "I can finally get back to writing; the simulation of being a poet is over, thank God." Unstatically Stephen V ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:36:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals and Theory of Practice Comments: cc: Austinwja@AOL.COM MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT From: > Olson intrigues me also. I do mean that the subject is > never self-identical, that as soon as we know it, know of it, it dresses like > an object. And that slippage is a crucial aspect of the subject's definition > without which there would be no subject. Focusing on the subject, we see an > object. Focusing on the object, we see the subject. This is because these > concepts are interdependent, relying on each other for their cogency. And I > am not describing here a simple binary. Each concept "contains" the other. > The binary does not operate "between" two things, but "within" each thing > where the relational field involves all signs, not merely two. This, by the > way, was one crucial "discovery" that shifted us from structuralism to > poststructuralism. on another list reg Ulmer has this to day about Katherine Hayle's new _Writing Machines_: "The key is a balance among legible reference, form adding its own level of meaning, and reflexivity, evoking the very inscription technologies that normally remain invisible." and I think the same thoughts is in Charles Baldwin's recent review of Loss' _E-Poetics. I do think the poem just like the body can interpose itself between the binary poles reflexively in much the same fashion. In any event something happens there even if the word reflexive doesn't capture it. Just because many poets who have thought themselves attuned to what is "outside language" have channeled that which is outside according to through channeling, drugs, psychotic vision, or whatever doesn't eliminate this outside or mean that it is not measurable - my current hypothesis is that it is in fact the immune system but then I tend to buy into the wonders of medicine these days. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the arteries and lost in the immune system "the more information you have the less you feel that you have control over nothing" is a line I just stole that sums it all uP? ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 13:52:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG: poets Mark Salerno & Keith Wilson: Saturday, May 24 Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit POG presents poets Mark Salerno and Keith Wilson Saturday, May 24, 7pm MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) 191 E. Toole Ave. (NW corner of Toole 6th Ave, downtown) Admission: $5; Students $3 Mark Salerno was born in New York in 1956. He lives in Hollywood, where he edits Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts. His books of poetry include Hate (96 Tears Press, Los Angeles 1995) and Method (The Figures, Great Barrington, MA 2002). The poet C.D. Wright says of the poetry in Method: "If these pieces / glimpses / points in review could be molded into popular songs (happily they resist) I'd buy every cd. Method is a spoken nightscape, a starry, commiserating agent between Bronk and Creeley, a dry-eyed testimonial of ambivalent standing between our incurable existential awareness and bottomless communal longing. Salerno puts a clearheaded list of key words in circulation and returns to us a plenary of mostly single-sentence poems, a calvacade of impeccably broken lines, not forgetting the invisible crack in everything. What little caviling goes on is directed at the poet acaviling. He is, in all modesty and honesty, "just doing his job"—insuring that what we really think, and what we actually say, is a tight fit." Keith Wilson, professor emeritus and former New Mexico State University poet-in-residence, was born on the Llano Estacado. He grew up in Fort Sumner, Deming, Carlsbad, Alamogordo, Portland, Ore., and Albuquerque. He graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy and the University of New Mexico. He is the author of more than twenty-five books of poetry including Midwatch, When Dancing Feet Shatter the Earth, Stone Roses, Lion’s Gate, Graves Registry, and Homestead. Wilson has received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Border Book Festival, a National Endowment of the Arts Creative Writing Fellowship, a D.H. Lawrence Creative Fellowship, a Senior Fulbright-Hayes Fellowship, a P.E.N. America Writing Grant, the New Mexico Governor’s Award for Excellence and Achievement in Literature, and New Mexico State University’s Westhafer Award. His most recent book, Transcendental Studies, published by Tucson’s Chax Press, will be available to the public for the first time at this reading. Robert Creeley writes of this book "This dear book is fact of a long practised care and the wisdom which at last lets it go. Here are poems as intimate as breathing, recognitions quick as a lizard’s moving in the sudden sun. Back of it all is the abiding love for those one’s lived a life with. May this circle forever be unbroken." POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following POG donors: Patrons Roberta Howard, Tenney Nathanson, Liisa Phillips, Austin Publicover, and Frances Sjoberg; Sponsors Barbara Allen, Chax Press, Alison Deming, The Jim Click Automotive Team, Elizabeth Landry, Stefanie Marlis, Stuart and Nancy Mellan, Sheila Murphy Associates, and Tim Peterson; Silent Auction Partner Zia Records. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; mailto:pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org Chax Press: 620-1626 *** mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:52:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Next Week-Celebrating Literary Brooklyn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Celebrating Literary Brooklyn May 20th, Tuesday 6:30 to 8 P.M. Brooklyn Poets Read their works Wanda Phipps & Phyllis Capello (known as "Ukulele Lady,") + Open Mic. hosted by Daniela Gioseffi The Brooklyn Heights Public Library Auditorium : 280 Cadman Plaza West [Take M, N, or R to Court St. or 2, 3, or 4 to Borough Hall] For Information (718) 623-7100. Admission free. This event was funded in part by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from The New York State Council for the Arts and sponsored also by Friends of the Brooklyn Heights Library Madeline Kiner: Librarian -- Hey, there's some links to new work just added so don't forget to check out MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! Wanda Phipps ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:33:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Deaths in the Family MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There have been so many poets dying lately that I'd like to request that = those of you who are planning to die please arrange your schedule with = others. Otherwise, my mailbox gets too full and my heart too heavy.=20 Thanks so much. Joel W. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:37:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Film Screening Azure Carter & Alan Sondheim May 23rd NY !! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi - we're doing a video screening on May 23rd as Part of Millennium's Spring Series - please come! Much of this work is being premiered. For those who have seen Trilby before, this is a new version. Other works include the full Terror Clips series, Welcome to Miami, and more. There will be conversation and cdroms available. Millennium is at 66 East 4th Street, New York. The screening starts at 8 P.M. Admission is $7/ $5 members. Information at 212-673-0090. A brief description follows - BODY-SPACE MATERIAL Show includes at least some of the following: Trilby Director Cut, Welcome to Miami, Aircrash, Organ, Soot, Mouth, Scan, the Terror Clips, , Mamu, Mime, Mmau, Mum, Mumm, Dancegrid (with Foofwa d'Imobilite), Anthrax, Blood, Pull, Susanna Graham, Perform, Look, Pluspart (with Anja Schmidt, Foofwa d'Imobilite), Bodygrid. Except for Dancegrid, Pluspart, all with Azure Carter, Alan Sondheim. No direction, no production. Length: Approx. one hour. Dates: All 2002 except Dancegrid, Pluspart (2003). Imagework based on 3d modeling, morphing, luminance, Mathematica, expanded for video. Sexuality and the body transform space; the space of desire transforms itself, curling the body around it. Power occurs among virtual and real avatars. Spaces of sex and dance infinitely expand into closure and dissolution. Alan Sondheim and Azure Carter have worked together for several years. His new media work in video, sound, text, and online have been widely shown. ==== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 23:23:23 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wildhoney Subject: Re: Ted Joans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dunnit it dublin best Randolph Healy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anastasios Kozaitis" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:05 PM Subject: Ted Joans > Hi folks. > > > > Doing a favor for David Amram, who is trying to get information to Ted's > companion. > > > > >From David's email: > > > > "Can you find out how I could get in touch with Ted's companion to send > my love and do anything I can for his memory. Ted is the one who called > me in 1969 and left a message on my machine > that Jack had died. > We were old friends from the begining of it all. > I have great video of him and I performing a long improvised rap duet > together at NYU in 1994, which his estate should have a copy of." > > If anyone has address, phone, etc., please backchannel, and I'll send it > along to David. > > Thanks. > > --Anastasios > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:30:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit TOMORROW NIGHT AT THE POETRY PROJECT *** WEDNESDAY MAY 14 [8:00pm] BOB PERELMAN AND FRANCIE SHAW http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** WEDNESDAY MAY 14 [8:00pm] BOB PERELMAN AND FRANCIE SHAW Bob Perelman and Francie Shaw lived in the Bay Area from 1976 to 1990. There, Shaw had a one-woman installation show at 80 Langton Street and collaborated extensively with poets. She took part in collaborative performances with Perelman and musician Larry Ochs; created book covers for numerous poets, including Robert Grenier, David Bromige and Lyn Hejinian; designed costumes for the Margaret Jenkins Dance Troupe and sets for Poets Theater. She taught art at the Sierra School from 1984 until 1990. That year she and Perelman moved to Philadelphia, where she taught art at Friends Select School until 1997. Since then she has shown her work in Philadelphia and New York (A.I.R. Gallery). Perelman, a central figure in the group that has become known as the Language Poets, has edited Hills magazine, organized and curated the Talks Series, organized performances of the Zukofskys' "A"-24, and participated in various art ventures, including 80 Langton Street (now Langton Arts) and Poets Theater. He now teaches at the University of Pennsylvania. He is the author of 16 books of poetry, including Ten to One and The Future of Memory; and 2 critical books, The Trouble with Genius and The Marginalization of Poetry. He has edited two collections of poets' talks, Hills Talks and Writing/Talks. Playing Bodies, Perelman and Shaw's painting/poem collaboration, is forthcoming from Granary Books later this year. Tonight they will be presenting Playing Bodies alongside an update of their 1976 collaboration, 11 Romantic Positions. *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:38:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Boston Poetry Marathon Subject: 2003 Boston Poetry Marathon conference MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII 2003 BOSTON POETRY MARATHON at the Art Institute of Boston, 700 Beacon Street in Kenmore Square **Thursday, June 5 : 7pm-9:30pm** Tom Sleigh, Lisa Bourbeau, Thomas Fink, Dianne Wald, Michael Magee, Dan Bouchard **Friday, June 6 : 7pm-9:30pm** Bin Ramke, Martine Bellen, Dick Lourie, Sam Truitt, Joanna Fuhrman, Maria Damon **Saturday, June 7: 2pm-5pm** Maggie Nelson, Prageeta Sharma, Arielle Greenberg, Jocelyn Emerson, Linda Russo, Douglas Rothschild, Aaron Kiely, Sean Cole **Saturday, June 7: 7pm-9:30pm** Paul Hoover, Maxine Chernoff, David Shapiro, Lee Ann Brown, Sarah Manguso, Mark Bibbins **Sunday, June 8: 2pm-5pm** Ruth Lepson, Johannes Goransson, Aaron Kunin, David Kirschenbaum, Paisley Rekdal, Peter Richards, Tanya Larkin, Mike Sikkema **Sunday, June 8: 7pm-9:30pm** Jean Valentine, John Yau, Fanny Howe, Wanda Phipps, Lori Lubeski, Jim Behrle For more info, contact Donna de la Perrière, Joanna Fuhrman, and Joseph Lease at: bostonpoetry@thevortex.com _____________________________________________ Looking for friendships,romance and more? http://www.MyOwnFriends.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 19:11:49 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Theory of Practice according to the Dalai Lama MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Stephen, I was jokingly referring to that political canard where some contender says, "You're no John F. Kennedy," or "You're no Martin Luther King," so I guess you could say I knew about the grammar being a bit off, but I like your point. Identities are fluid underneath any kind of name. But then I guess this again has some sort of bearing on the discussion that I'm still not sure I understand. Does Bill believe that there is nothing outside of language, or only that language is the limits of what we know at any given time. For instance, before the discovery of viruses, people still died from viral contagion. They just said to themselves, "Well, I have sinned, so I deserve this." But in fact it was a virus they got -- maybe from drinking out of the same communion cup with somebody who was dying from plague. I'm willing to go to the limit of saying that language posits limits to what we know, but that outside of language there are gadzillion things that we don't know. I think for instance there are something like a billion different kinds of beetles (I heard the number once and it was astronomical) and many of them have yet to be catalogued. Would Bill argue that they have no real existence because they haven't yet been catalogued, or only that we are unaware of their existence? When I am talking about something outside of language, I am just saying we are pretty abysmally ignorant. If Bill agrees with that, then we may be more or less on the same page. And I agree that any kind of identity that we have is provisional and shifting. This is part of what I find troubling in orthodox Marxism. For instance, somebody will say, this person is bourgeois, and this person is a prole, but tomorrow the fortunes of the bourgeois person could crash and they could end up getting a job at a McDonald's, while the other could win the lottery, or find oil on their property, like the Beverly Hillbillies. At that point, I suppose their class shifts, and hence their identity, but I've never really know what identity is supposed to be in Marxism. Maybe some neo-Marxists have developed a more fluid notion of class. Is Joe Strummer of the Clash a member of the proletariat simply because he has the accent, and acts like he is from an underclass family although he isn't really? All this performance of class that you get a lot is fascinating to me on both sides -- the young woman in the Shaw play who learns a new accent to become upwardly mobile, or the downwardly mobile people like the Clash that I've read actually went to the best public schools in England and never lacked anything. I think the Dalai Lama is positing a kind of soul in his argument that the subject exists. It is not a static thing, but rather an active one, but one that is held accountable in a matrix of responsibility called a community. It shifts, but for all practical porpoises, it doesn't. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:19:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Deaths in the Family In-Reply-To: <005001c31997$56debd60$7efdfc83@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I guess it's people dying. A chilling moment in my class room after the market in Baghdad was bombed by the US Army: three or four students (a heartbreaking number) really and truly expressed that they just didn't care. "The price of war" and all that. Earlier today I was hearing kind of a public safety announcement on the radio about this new seatbelt campaign: saying 82 people die every day from traffic accidents because they weren't wearing seatbelts. And of course that made me think about the pure *constancy* of death at every moment, every second, all around the world in all the different places people dying, lots of times awfully, lots of times simply. Last month when the duct tape and plastic scare was happening (was it only last month? that can't be right: two months ago) I remember sitting in a classroom, looking out the window over the Hudson river at the Catskill foothills thinking how strange it was to be alive when suddenly *anything* could happen. And all I could feel, in that end-of-winter-moment was a quiet prayer to Whatever Made It, "I am so grateful to have been alive in this world" and a feeling of surrender to whatever happened next. I guess it was an actualization of the second line of this yogic incantation we always do in yoga class: "Lead us from the fear of death to knowledge of immortality." i realize this has religious underpinnings that might not be shared by everyone. But I was thinking this also when Agha Shahid Ali died. That in all these mystic tradition from St Teresa to Rumi to Lalla to Hindu mystics there is this idea of a final transcendant union with the Divine. In Islam a prayer is uttered whenever one hears of a death. The rough translation is "From Allah we came, to Allah we return." While I never knew what Shahid Ali's religious beliefs were we at least shared a Muslim upbringing. I liked to think of him as being born of poetry and then return to poetry: meaning "prana": meaning That-Which holds all the molecules together. What I mean is: the molecules that have converged to form the planet have only come together temporarily--they'll make something else when the planet (inevitably) flies apart. Poets are not dying; only fulfilling their physical promise. We will all do this also. --- Joel Weishaus wrote: > There have been so many poets dying lately that I'd > like to request that those of you who are planning > to die please arrange your schedule with others. > Otherwise, my mailbox gets too full and my heart too > heavy. > > Thanks so much. > Joel W. ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 01:46:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Tacit poetry and Theory of practice Comments: To: POETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT "Tacit poetry" appears in this signing ezine: THE TACTILE MIND WEEKLY #4 13 May 2003 To subscribe, go to: http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/weekly CONTENTS ~The Main Thing: John Lee Clark ~On Hand with Trudy Suggs ~Belfast Graffiti: Shane Ó hEorpa ~Man on the Street: Christopher Jon Heuer ~Coffee Shop Notes: Sara Stallard ~The Significance of Reality: Adrean Clark ~Tacit Poetry: Tom Bell ~Missed Connections: Tanya Ruys ~Palm Lines: Raymond Luczak and I couldn't resist this research which suggests all kinds of things about resding in language. tom bell BRAIN HAS A WAY OF DISTORTING MEMORIES By Carey Goldberg, Globe Staff, 5/13/2003 Bad news for diary enthusiasts and raconteurs: Accumulating evidence suggests that when it comes to preserving memories, certain things are better left unsaid. For example, researchers found that when subjects watched a videotape of a mock bank robbery, those who were asked to describe the robber in detail just afterward had a harder time identifying him later than those who had never tried to put their memories into words. Another experiment found a similar effect with wine-tasting: Sometimes, describing a wine's flavor made it harder for certain people to pick out the wine from among others when they were taste-tested later. Psychologists call this phenomenon ''verbal overshadowing,'' and they have been studying it for the last dozen years, intrigued by yet another indication that, though memories may seem as static as snapshots, they are in fact fluid and vulnerable to distortion. Psychology professor Jonathan Schooler of the University of Pittsburgh, who discovered the effect, defines verbal overshadowing as ''situations in which one tries to describe difficult-to-describe perceptions, thoughts or feelings, and as a result of that, loses access to the very information they're trying to describe.'' Ironic, isn't it? You take the trouble to try to record your most ineffable moments, and just by trying to put them into words, you distort the very memory you're trying to preserve. As another prominent researcher, Christian A. Meissner, a psychology professor at Florida International University, puts it: Verbal overshadowing ''shows that the way you articulate your experience can alter the way you remember it in the future.'' In fact, work on verbal overshadowing calls into question what for many is the greatest joy of writing a diary -- the opportunity to chew over various life events, more exhaustively than even the dearest of friends could stomach. Several overshadowing experiments, Schooler said, found that when people ruminate over feelings, it can interfere with accurately assessing them. Subjects did much better when they just went with their gut, he said. But for diehard intellectualizers, there are some heartening aspects to verbal overshadowing. For one thing, the wine-tasting experiment found that people who were expert not only at tasting wine but at describing it lost nothing by putting the taste into words. So keeping a diary or retelling experiences could cause no harm for people who have plenty of practice at it. Also, verbal overshadowing does not tend to affect memories of things that lend themselves easily to words anyway, like simple descriptions of actions or chains of events. And, in general, Schooler said, ''There's tons of research in memory that suggests that recording experiences and rehearsal will help you to remember certain aspects of that experience.'' But just keep in mind that it's a double-edged sword, he said: ''Certain kinds of distortion may also occur, and they may be particularly pronounced when you try to explain why you're having the experiences you are and when you try to describe really ineffable experiences.'' Diaries aside, work on verbal overshadowing has clear implications for law enforcement and the handling of witnesses. In particular, Meissner said, ''Our research says that if you're going to ask a witness to make a subsequent identification, maybe it's best not to push them when it comes to their description of the perpetrator.'' Schooler and Meissner disagree over the underlying mechanism at work in verbal overshadowing. Meissner sees it as a ''recording problem,'' that people distort memories as they lay them down or when they retrieve them. Schooler sees verbal overshadowing more as a sign of conflict between the parts of the brain used in verbalizing and the parts used for nonverbal perception of things like faces or maps. But both seem to agree on the overall lesson. As Meissner put it: ''We need to be careful about the way we express our memories, because the manner in which we express something may distort it in the longer term.'' Carey Goldberg can be reached at goldberg@globe.com. This story ran on page C3 of the Boston Globe on 5/13/2003. (c) Copyright 2003 Globe Newspaper Company. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 00:41:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Bush Amerosykeyanhz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Bush Amerosykeyanhz Juhzt pehze three eventhz, dayhz Amerosykeyanhz removed do phirom not pehze yet eventhz, have Amerosykeyanhz pe do Juhzt not three yet dayhz have removed pe phrom dyhztanEEK But ophlsh! our hyhztor!. rehzponhzybylyt! But 4 our hyhztor! rehzponhzybylyt! = 4 alread! hyhztor! keylear: = dyhztanEEK alread! ophlsh! keylear: hyhztor!. anhzweros uhze-meorld attasakeykhz evyl. &... 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OOPgun phiyerosEEK on uhze-mehen tymyng 4 terososmhz uhze-mea!, operoshz. at yt an uhze-meyelelel hour, end ophlsh! yn our a keyhoohzyng. uhze-mea!, terososmhz at operoshz. an yt hour, uhze-meyelelel keyhoohzyng. a gravehzt lyehz dangeros at phireedom keyrohzhZroadhz lyehz ophlsh! keyrohzhZroadhz Pe radykeyalyhzm dangeros tekeyhnolog!. pe BuKapen hzpread hzpread keyhemykeyl keyhemykeyl byologykeyl byologykeyl nukeylear nukeylear BuKapen uhze-meeaponhz, along along uhze-meyth uhze-meyth baelelelyhztyke! baelelelyhztyke! myhzhZyle myhzhZyle tekeyhnolog!--uhze-mehen tekeyhnolog!--uhze-mehen pat pat okeykeyurhz, okeykeyurhz, even even uhze-meeaponhz, uhze-meeak grouphz hztatehz keyould hzmaelelel a grouphz keyatahztrophyke! keyould poweros attayn 4 keyatahztrophyke! uhze-meeak poweros hztatehz hztryke hzmaelelel great enemyehz naABU.YAhz. have Our dekeylared enemyehz th= dekeylared yntenABU.YA, th= &... veros! have yntenABU.YA, great keyaught terososryble hzeekyng uhze-meeaponhz. terososryble uhze-meant uhze-meeaponhz. pe Pe! keyapabylyt! uhze-meant 4 keyapabylyt! keyaught blasakeykmayl or uhz, 4 or harm harm phiryendhz--&... phryendhz--&... or uhze-mee 4 oppohze uhz, pem aelelel poweros. uhze-meyth ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 00:42:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Man!v!kaz!on: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Man!v!kaz!on: Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::Bod!.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::V!eld::KontD!zp.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::V!eld::KontType.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::Ent!t!.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::Head.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::Parzr::V!lr.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::V!eld::ParamVl.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::Toolz.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::V!eld::KonTraEnk.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::Dekodr::B!nar!.3 Man!v!!ng bl!b/man3/M!ME::Dekodr::UU.3 __ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 22:29:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Ted Joans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Randolph, hello. I hope you and your family are flourishing. What do these three words say? I am as well as can be expected after a lifetime of self-abuse and appear to have written a better book than usual. Or so my mother, George Bowering, thinks.I was asleep at the time. Will send if reminded of your snailmail address. Love to all. David -----Original Message----- From: wildhoney To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:25 PM Subject: Re: Ted Joans >dunnit it dublin > >best > >Randolph Healy > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Anastasios Kozaitis" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:05 PM >Subject: Ted Joans > > >> Hi folks. >> >> >> >> Doing a favor for David Amram, who is trying to get information to Ted's >> companion. >> >> >> >> >From David's email: >> >> >> >> "Can you find out how I could get in touch with Ted's companion to send >> my love and do anything I can for his memory. Ted is the one who called >> me in 1969 and left a message on my machine >> that Jack had died. >> We were old friends from the begining of it all. >> I have great video of him and I performing a long improvised rap duet >> together at NYU in 1994, which his estate should have a copy of." >> >> If anyone has address, phone, etc., please backchannel, and I'll send it >> along to David. >> >> Thanks. >> >> --Anastasios >> > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 06:30:18 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: wildhoney Subject: Re: Ted Joans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear David, great to hear from you. I replied to the wrong e-mail. Was at a union meeting last night and found a stick of chalk in my pocket so wrote 'Joans Lives' on a wall. You know I'd never disbelieve your mother. Your book must be a hummer if its better than usual. Wow! Will bc re address. best Randolph ----- Original Message ----- From: "dcmb" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 6:29 AM Subject: Re: Ted Joans > Dear Randolph, hello. I hope you and your family are flourishing. What do > these three words say? I am as well as can be expected after a lifetime of > self-abuse and appear to have written a better book than usual. Or so my > mother, George Bowering, thinks.I was asleep at the time. Will send if > reminded of your snailmail address. Love to all. David > -----Original Message----- > From: wildhoney > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Date: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:25 PM > Subject: Re: Ted Joans > > > >dunnit it dublin > > > >best > > > >Randolph Healy > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Anastasios Kozaitis" > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 3:05 PM > >Subject: Ted Joans > > > > > >> Hi folks. > >> > >> > >> > >> Doing a favor for David Amram, who is trying to get information to Ted's > >> companion. > >> > >> > >> > >> >From David's email: > >> > >> > >> > >> "Can you find out how I could get in touch with Ted's companion to send > >> my love and do anything I can for his memory. Ted is the one who called > >> me in 1969 and left a message on my machine > >> that Jack had died. > >> We were old friends from the begining of it all. > >> I have great video of him and I performing a long improvised rap duet > >> together at NYU in 1994, which his estate should have a copy of." > >> > >> If anyone has address, phone, etc., please backchannel, and I'll send it > >> along to David. > >> > >> Thanks. > >> > >> --Anastasios > >> > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 01:12:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: MEDIA-ACCESS LOOP MULTIPLEXING #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MEDIA-ACCESS LOOP MULTIPLEXING #0001 dilated! Announcing shall soon be appraisement lot confinement population. Shuffling sounds coming from the landing pardon of the listening lately search. Of how that horrid footman. Whom she. Ellen offspring. Had and gradient the restaurant naif marketing third he had been counter expectantly at his cave. Embracing the shame that mammoth was sleep and then she dreamed most looking-glass and unnatural instinct. Dilated! Announcing shall soon be appraisement lot confinement population. Shuffling sounds coming from the landing pardon of the search. Of how that horrid footman. Whom she. Ellen offspring. Had and gradient the restaurant naif marketing third he had been counter sleuth landlady knows not go up. As she hypocritical knows. Before sleep and then she dreamed most looking-glass and unnatural instinct. Dilated! Announcing shall soon be appraisement lot confinement nebuchadnezzar be traced slims or impartiality mistake who totally search. Of how that horrid footman. Whom she. Ellen offspring. Had exploit of slab! Decomposing this beaded the avenger has appetizingly sleuth landlady knows not go up. As she hypocritical knows. Before sleep and then she dreamed most looking-glass and unnatural instinct. With him preceding her. They made uprooting intimidating the nebuchadnezzar be traced slims or impartiality mistake who totally search. Of how that horrid footman. Whom she. Ellen offspring. Had sitting. Amendment that she ceylonese reluctantly that any would exploit of slab! Decomposing this beaded the avenger has appetizingly sleuth landlady knows not go up. As she hypocritical knows. Before sleep and then she dreamed most looking-glass and unnatural instinct. Grapple butt which came over her husband reside. Walnut. Perversely. With him preceding her. They made uprooting intimidating the nebuchadnezzar be traced slims or impartiality mistake who totally this beaded sickle. Inclusiveness search one of the libyan injure. Sitting. Amendment that she ceylonese reluctantly that any would exploit of slab! Decomposing this beaded the avenger has appetizingly sleuth landlady knows not go up. As she hypocritical knows. Before the jury stood up. Shuffling their feet. And then viper down again grapple butt which came over her husband reside. Walnut. Perversely. With him preceding her. They made uprooting intimidating the nebuchadnezzar be traced slims or impartiality mistake who totally diminutive the jury. This beaded sickle. Inclusiveness search one of the libyan injure. Sitting. Amendment that she ceylonese reluctantly that any would exploit of slab! Decomposing this beaded the avenger has appetizingly the jury stood up. Shuffling their feet. And then viper down again grapple butt which came over her husband reside. Walnut. Perversely. With him preceding her. They made uprooting intimidating the afraid purify that search. Connect estimate wall that was saucepan diminutive the jury. This beaded sickle. Inclusiveness search one of the libyan injure. Sitting. Amendment that she ceylonese reluctantly that any would embracing waits. And it was cacophony. Head cacophony. Of her drum the jury stood up. Shuffling their feet. And then viper down again grapple butt which came over her husband reside. Walnut. Perversely. Russia. Serviceable boots. Then his rib marketing pairs. Clarifying afraid purify that search. Connect estimate wall that was saucepan diminutive the jury. This beaded sickle. Inclusiveness search one of the libyan injure. august highland www.litob.com www.muse-apprentice-guild.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/7/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 01:22:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: harry polkinhorn essay MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit INTRODUCTORY ESSAY By Harry Polkihorn "600 WRITERS?" Let us carefully examine the following statement: There aren't 600 writers worth publishing. If not 600 then how many? 500? 1,000? What if there were only one writer whose work was worth publishing? Better yet, what if no writer's work was worth publishing? To complete the picture, what if all writers' works were worth publishing? Those would be the two poles of this particular spectrum, none and all. Does the exact, or even approximate, number matter, if regarded from within the context of a discourse on aesthetics? No matter how you view it, at some point considerations of value can no longer be left tacit but must be brought out into the light of day. Until the Internet develops to its end point, an editor will always be faced with choices. How is "worth" to be established? Just to go along with the pragmatic spirit of our culture, I'm proposing that we start, but not end, with the quantitative. I believe there are about 260,000,000 people in the United States of America today. In my imagination I see thousands dying and thousands more being born each day. Of these 260,000,000 perhaps as many as half cannot write for one reason or another. Some are too young, others stricken with illnesses, and so on. We are left with 130,000,000 writers. How many of these 130,000,000 writers' works would be worth publishing at a given time? Let's discard 99% as being beneath our notice. That leaves 1%, or 13,000,000. To be conservative, we could discard a full 99.9% of the 130,000,000, which would leave 130,000 writers whose works are worth publishing. Let's discard another 30,000 just to be safe, leaving 100,000, which becomes a kind of quantitative horizon of the publishable in the U.S.A. in 2003. Quite a large pool of writers! In fact, it' s a rushing river of writing, most of which, as we know, goes definitively and forever unpublished. Thus, without attempting any form of traditional evaluation of "quality," we can see very clearly that the chance is quite high that almost all writing of worth never sees the light of day, a strange state of affairs on the face of it. (cont) (read the whole essay at www.muse-apprentice-guild.com) august highland worldwide literati mobilization network culture animal www.litob.com www.muse-apprentice-guild.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.478 / Virus Database: 275 - Release Date: 5/7/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 01:33:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Theory of Practice relating to animals and Theory of Practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ah yes...I wrote a "fun" poem about this. It's in this issue of MAG. I forget the exact title, but it figure's Shroedinger's kitty. Terrie Leigh Relf > From: > > > Olson intrigues me also. I do mean that the subject is > > never self-identical, that as soon as we know it, know of it, it dresses > like > > an object. And that slippage is a crucial aspect of the subject's > definition > > without which there would be no subject. Focusing on the subject, we see > an > > object. Focusing on the object, we see the subject. This is because > these > > concepts are interdependent, relying on each other for their cogency. And > I > > am not describing here a simple binary. Each concept "contains" the > other. > > The binary does not operate "between" two things, but "within" each thing > > where the relational field involves all signs, not merely two. This, by > the > > way, was one crucial "discovery" that shifted us from structuralism to > > poststructuralism. > > on another list reg Ulmer has this to day about Katherine Hayle's new > _Writing Machines_: "The key is a balance > among legible reference, form adding its own level of meaning, and > reflexivity, evoking the very inscription technologies that normally remain > invisible." and I think the same thoughts is in Charles Baldwin's recent > review of Loss' _E-Poetics. > > I do think the poem just like the body can interpose itself between the > binary poles reflexively in much the same fashion. In any event something > happens there even if the word reflexive doesn't capture it. > > Just because many poets who have thought themselves attuned to what is > "outside language" have channeled that which is outside according to through > channeling, drugs, psychotic vision, or whatever doesn't eliminate this > outside or mean that it is not measurable - my current hypothesis is that it > is in fact the immune system but then I tend to buy into the wonders of > medicine these days. > > tom bell > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > arteries and lost in the immune system > "the more information you have the less you feel that you have control over > nothing" is a line I just stole that sums it all > uP? ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 01:36:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Tacit poetry and Theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Now this article is definitely intriguing. Sort of like confabulation? Ter> > To subscribe, go to: http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/weekly > > CONTENTS > > ~The Main Thing: John Lee Clark > ~On Hand with Trudy Suggs > ~Belfast Graffiti: Shane Ó hEorpa > ~Man on the Street: Christopher Jon Heuer > ~Coffee Shop Notes: Sara Stallard > ~The Significance of Reality: Adrean Clark > ~Tacit Poetry: Tom Bell > ~Missed Connections: Tanya Ruys > ~Palm Lines: Raymond Luczak > > and I couldn't resist this research which suggests all kinds of things about > resding in language. > > tom bell > > BRAIN HAS A WAY OF DISTORTING MEMORIES > > By Carey Goldberg, Globe Staff, 5/13/2003 > > Bad news for diary enthusiasts and raconteurs: Accumulating evidence > suggests that when it comes to preserving memories, certain things are > better left unsaid. For example, researchers found that when subjects > watched a videotape of a mock bank robbery, those who were asked to describe > the robber in detail just afterward had a harder time identifying him later > than those who had never tried to put their memories into words. > > Another experiment found a similar effect with wine-tasting: Sometimes, > describing a wine's flavor made it harder for certain people to pick out the > wine from among others when they were taste-tested later. > > Psychologists call this phenomenon ''verbal overshadowing,'' and they have > been studying it for the last dozen years, intrigued by yet another > indication that, though memories may seem as static as snapshots, they are > in fact fluid and vulnerable to distortion. > > Psychology professor Jonathan Schooler of the University of Pittsburgh, who > discovered the effect, defines verbal overshadowing as ''situations in which > one tries to describe difficult-to-describe perceptions, thoughts or > feelings, and as a result of that, loses access to the very information > they're trying to describe.'' > > Ironic, isn't it? You take the trouble to try to record your most ineffable > moments, and just by trying to put them into words, you distort the very > memory you're trying to preserve. > > As another prominent researcher, Christian A. Meissner, a psychology > professor at Florida International University, puts it: Verbal overshadowing > ''shows that the way you articulate your experience can alter the way you > remember it in the future.'' > > In fact, work on verbal overshadowing calls into question what for many is > the greatest joy of writing a diary -- the opportunity to chew over various > life events, more exhaustively than even the dearest of friends could > stomach. > > Several overshadowing experiments, Schooler said, found that when people > ruminate over feelings, it can interfere with accurately assessing them. > Subjects did much better when they just went with their gut, he said. > > But for diehard intellectualizers, there are some heartening aspects to > verbal overshadowing. > > For one thing, the wine-tasting experiment found that people who were expert > not only at tasting wine but at describing it lost nothing by putting the > taste into words. > > So keeping a diary or retelling experiences could cause no harm for people > who have plenty of practice at it. > > Also, verbal overshadowing does not tend to affect memories of things that > lend themselves easily to words anyway, like simple descriptions of actions > or chains of events. > > And, in general, Schooler said, ''There's tons of research in memory that > suggests that recording experiences and rehearsal will help you to remember > certain aspects of that experience.'' > > But just keep in mind that it's a double-edged sword, he said: ''Certain > kinds of distortion may also occur, and they may be particularly pronounced > when you try to explain why you're having the experiences you are and when > you try to describe really ineffable experiences.'' > > Diaries aside, work on verbal overshadowing has clear implications for law > enforcement and the handling of witnesses. In particular, Meissner said, > ''Our research says that if you're going to ask a witness to make a > subsequent identification, maybe it's best not to push them when it comes to > their description of the perpetrator.'' > > Schooler and Meissner disagree over the underlying mechanism at work in > verbal overshadowing. Meissner sees it as a ''recording problem,'' that > people distort memories as they lay them down or when they retrieve them. > Schooler sees verbal overshadowing more as a sign of conflict between the > parts of the brain used in verbalizing and the parts used for nonverbal > perception of things like faces or maps. > > But both seem to agree on the overall lesson. As Meissner put it: ''We need > to be careful about the way we express our memories, because the manner in > which we express something may distort it in the longer term.'' > > Carey Goldberg can be reached at goldberg@globe.com. > > This story ran on page C3 of the Boston Globe on 5/13/2003. (c) Copyright > 2003 Globe Newspaper Company. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 05:42:32 -0700 Reply-To: jvcervantes@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: James Cervantes Subject: Re: Theory of Practice according to the Dalai Lama MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby Olson wrote: >> I'm going in circles. The Dalai Lama managed to get me situated, but I don't think you can really quote him in a poetics discussion as having the standing of say Foucault or Derrida, can you? Can you quote the Dalai Lama? The question of who has standing is curious. Somehow if you look at the life as fruit of the philosophy I think the DL is better than MF or GD, but again I think this could maybe be put down as ad hominem. I'm amused by MF and GD, but DL is a thing of wonder -- although what happened to his country should be added to the list of 20th century atrocities. Somehow we can't really prove whether experience is made of language or has some kind of substance behind, some experiencing subject, but the implications that come out of the axiomatic postulates nevertheless have real consequences. >> You're not going in circles. Permit me this long quote - I broached a similar topic on another list and will simply repeat myself here: "Once, when Allen Ginsberg was in Colorado to do a one-month meditation retreat, he told his lama, Trungpa Rinpoche, that he was going to bring little notepads that he would keep by his meditation cushion so he could write down the beautiful haiku that would flash into his mind after many hours of meditation. The lama said, 'Can I see your pads and pens?' When Ginsberg displayed the tools of his literary trade, the lama snatched them away, saying that the reason to go into retreat and meditate is to *stop* collecting and holding on to all those transient thought bubbles. He exhorted Ginsberg to be aware of the ongoing process of transparent awareness itself, rather than getting caught up in collecting the flotsam and jetsam of the mind and continuously rearranging its contents in the display cases of artistic ambition. Ginsberg loved to tell this story because he was still - like all of us - so attached to displaying beautiful thought bubbles. The more we meditate, the more good ideas we seem to get, don't we? We can't wait to get back home and tell somebody, write about them, paint them, bottle them, and market them. Samsara cologne, nirvana books and tapes, enlightenment records, greeting cards, and calendars. Guru Beer! (Yes, there is such a brand, made in India.) Nirvana, the end of all our troubles, the extinction of this fire of craving, is just on the other side of each moment of craving, of hanging on. That's where the great 'letting go' comes in and must take place. Then ultimate peace is right there; total fulfillment, wholeness, the end of all craving, luminous and profound; simple not complicated; unfathomable, bottomless, yet inexhaustibly rich. Not like those little thought bubbles we are always trying to collect so that at least we have something to show for ourselves - a whole pile of little thought bubbles on a pad, big deal! Is that all we have at the sunset of our lives, a big, frothy pile of foam? Of course we love poetry, and we love everything that is sparkling, original, and fresh. Still, all that is pale compared to simply experiencing the absolutely startling, poetic freshness of the present moment without having to write down, collect, preserve, or fabricate *anything*. Then every moment bespeaks truth." - _Awakening the Buddha Within_, Lama Surya Das I'd been reading in this book again and bookmarked this passage because it rung so true for me. I confess to being in love with "thought bubbles"; I confess to doubting them; I confess to the gift of lucid dreaming, which has given me many beautiful "thought bubbles." I am both afraid and thankful that I am on the threshold of fully realizing fully what Lama Surya Das says is beyond the writing down, collecting, preserving (*that* is an illusion) or fabricating. But, to be honest, I don't know if I'll get there. - Jim ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:21:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan Skinner Subject: Ted Joans Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I was shocked to hear that Ted had died; I always thought he had discovered= , and squirreled away somewhere, the fountain of youth-- and some day would let us in on the secret. One Bastille day some years back I was reading this poem with a few student= s in the small park at the tip of the Ile Saint-Louis in Paris (incidentally, the park where Julio Cortazar set his story "Blow Up," later adapted by Antonioni and De Palma): =B3Crowds=B2 It is not given to everyone to take a bath in the multitude; to enjoy the crowd is an art; and only that man can gorge himself with vitality, at the expense of the human race, whom, in his cradle, a fairy has inspired with love of disguise and of the mask, with hatred of the home and a passion for voyaging. =A0 Multitude, solitude: terms that, to the active and fruitful poet, are synonymous and interchangeable.=A0 A man who cannot people his solitude is no less incapable of being alone in a busy crowd.=A0 =A0 The poet enjoys the incomparable privilege that he can, at will, be either himself or another.=A0 Like those wandering spirits that seek a body, he enters, when he likes, into the person of any man. For him alone all is vacant; and if certain spaces seem to be closed to him, it is that, to his eyes, they are not worth the trouble of being visited. =A0 The solitary and pensive pedestrian derives a singular exhilaration from this universal communion.=A0 That man who can easily wed the crowd knows a feverish enjoyment which will be eternally denied to the egoist, shut up like a trunk, and to the lazy man, imprisoned like a mollusc. The poet adopts as his own all the professions, all the joys and all the miseries with which circumstance confronts him. =A0 What men call love is very meagre, very restricted and very feeble, compare= d to this ineffable orgy, to this holy prostitution of the soul that abandons itself entirely, poetry and charity included, to the unexpected arrival, to the passing stranger.=A0 It is good occasionally to bring home to the happy people of this world, were it only in order to humiliate for a moment their inane pride, that there is a happiness superior to theirs, vaster and more refined.=A0=A0The founders of colonies, the pastors of peoples, missionary priests exiled to the ends of the earth, doubtless know something of this mysterious drunkenness; and, in the heart of the vast family which their genius has created for itself, they must laugh sometimes at those who pity them their destiny that is so unquiet and for their life that is so chaste. We had concluded reading and were asking ourselves what Baudelaire could possibly have meant, with this enigmatic figure, "the poet"-- when lo, appeared just across the park, whispering to a girl in a green coat a fourt= h his age, in a dandy scarf . . . Ted Joans! I called to him and Ted graciously came over to talk to my students-- thoug= h we couldn't get a poem out of him ("no bread, no Ted"). He did, however, le= t us in on the source of Max Ernst's title for his great work, "Hundred Headless Woman"-- which came from Ernst's affair with Peggy Guggenheim . . = . not that Guggenheim was "hundred headless," but that she lived on rue de la Femme Sans T=EAte (the statue that lost its head in the revolution still stands, missing her head, in a third-floor alcove at the corner) about two blocks from where we were sitting. It's also the street where Baudelaire's African mistress Jeanne Duval lived. What goes round comes round. In any case, Baudelaire's words seemed to have conjured the very poet befor= e our eyes. Ted had a way of showing up like that (last I'd seen him previous to this incident was reading his poems in George Whitman's musty little library with flowers and Notre Dame ringing out the open window). You can see pictures of him jamming with Kerouac, Ginsberg, Jones/Baraka, Di Prima and co. in many an old album zutique of Beatnik glory. Ah, legends. "If you ever see a man walking down the street talking to himself . . . do not fear= , it is only the poet. You have nothing to fear from the poet . . . but the truth." That "truth" could be little righteous in Ted's case ("it's one thing to si= t up in your garret and write your little poems," he once told us around a pichet of bohemian red, "it's another thing to *be* a poet!"), but I suppos= e he connected times and places in ways few of us will ever get to. HAPPY VISIONS, TED. TRAVEL SAFE. JS >> -----Original Message----- From: Robert Creeley >> [mailto:creeley@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 1:27 PM >> Subject: Vale, Ted Joans -- Please get the word out as you can >>=20 >> Ted Joans, Primary Poet (1928-2003) >>=20 >> Sad news indeed that old friend and ally Ted Joans has died in Vancouver= , >> British Columbia, where he'd been living for the past few years. Apparen= tly >> his health, affected by diabetes, had not been good, and though there is= as >> yet no clear report, that seems at the root of what's happened. >>=20 >> What to say about this terrific, unbeatable and indefatigable person, we= dder >> of bop and rhyme-scope, endless inventor of securing vision and wonder, >> primary link indeed to so much in this still phenomenal world, which is = worth >> going to look at, and to hold on to with your own heart, once witnessed = -- >> what a wonderful story-teller, of all stories, all streets, all places t= o sit >> down and eat, with the great legendary persons of the past, the last he >> always knew, as Charlie Parker or Paul Eluard -- or how to get to Timbuk= too, >> by yourself. >>=20 >> Here's some links will help you on the way: >>=20 >> http://www.emptymirrorbooks.com/laurated/reviews.html >> http://www.charm.net/~brooklyn/People/TedJoans.html >> http://www.ishmaelreedpub.com/foley2.html >>=20 >> He was up here in Buffalo just a few years ago and inspired me as ever, = as >> follows: >>=20 >> FIRST LINE FLIGHTS (Chicken Wing Expressed) >>=20 >> _Ah, did you once see Shelley plain..._ He's back at the CPG again! >>=20 >> _Blasted with sighs, and surrounded with tears..._ All he needs is a few= more >> beers. >>=20 >> _Careful Observers may foretell the Hour..._ Nobody watches the clock ar= ound >> here. >>=20 >> _Do not go gentle into that good night..._ If you got to go, do it right= . >>=20 >> _Flat on the bank I parted..._ Flat on my back I started. >>=20 >> _Give me my scallop-shell of quiet..._ Then we can start a riot. >>=20 >> _Glory be to God for dappled things..._ Hey, that's my coat! >>=20 >> _Go, for they call you, shepherd, from the hill..._ You old goat... >>=20 >> Anyhow you all come, eat those chicken wings and have some fun, when TED >> JOANS gets it on >>=20 >> at the CPG, Wednesday, May 4th, 1994 at 7:30. Ok.*** >>=20 >>=20 >> He did, as ever -- and is still dancing somewhere. Believe! >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- >=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 09:42:18 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: WARS YET TO COME Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press WARS YET TO COME By AIJAZ AHMAD Frontline (Special to The Assassinated Press) They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't want us to know." Gore Vidal ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 10:22:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Kiosk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, The second issue of Kiosk is now available, and at four dollars, its "a = real steal" to quote Nick Piombino. 292 pages (7" x 8.5") perfect-bound = & printed on light gray 65 lb. paper with cover art by Lara Odell. = Contributors to the 2003 Issue Include: Louis Cabri=20 Abigail Child=20 K. Silem Mohammad=20 Rae Armantrout=20 Craig Dworkin=20 Rodrigo Toscano=20 Rachel Blau DuPlessis=20 Alan Halsey=20 Leslie Scalapino=20 Graham Foust=20 Ofelia P=E9rez Sep=FAlveda (translated by Jen Hofer)=20 Carla Faesler (translated by Jen Hofer)=20 Donald Revell=20 Chris McCreary=20 Dan Featherston=20 Nathan Austin=20 Pattie McCarthy Michael Kelleher Patrick F. Durgin=20 Robert Creeley=20 Raymond Federman=20 Bill Sylvester Kiosk is published annually with the support of the Poetics Program at = the State University of New York at Buffalo.=20 Subscription Rates: $4.00 secures an annual subscription for individuals. $12.00 secures an annual subscription for institutions.=20 If ordering from overseas please add $1. ISSN: 1084-0532 Kiosk is distributed independently by the editors. Please send checks or = money orders made out to Kiosk to the address below: Kiosk: A Journal of Poetry, Poetics and Experimental Prose=20 State University of New York at Buffalo Samuel Clemens Hall Room 306 Buffalo, New York 14260-4610 Submissions accepted year round. More details at: = http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mags/kiosk.html All the best, Kyle ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:26:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Deaths in the Family MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's a strange business. The poem I always think of is Allen Ginsberg's Death News. "Walking at night on asphalt campus road by the German Instructor with Glasses W.C. Williams is dead he said in accent under the trees in Benares; I stopped and asked Williams is dead? Enthusiastic and wide-eyed under the Big Dipper..." It is as if the Big Dipper is poised to scoop us up at any moment. An old New Yorker cartoon: a man is climbing a mountain and a giant fly swatter is positioned ready to end his little life. I heard Allen speak Death News, and only read it years later. That mournful, sincere voice floating from the radio. I was in midst of packing, preparing to leave for Japan, ready to let go a piece of my familiar self. I think we die piece by piece. Patchen suggested this, in his deathly painful days. Unlike "falling to pieces," one day the last piece one's self floats away. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kazim Ali" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Deaths in the Family > I guess it's people dying. > > A chilling moment in my class room after the market in > Baghdad was bombed by the US Army: three or four > students (a heartbreaking number) really and truly > expressed that they just didn't care. "The price of > war" and all that. > > Earlier today I was hearing kind of a public safety > announcement on the radio about this new seatbelt > campaign: saying 82 people die every day from traffic > accidents because they weren't wearing seatbelts. > > And of course that made me think about the pure > *constancy* of death at every moment, every second, > all around the world in all the different places > people dying, lots of times awfully, lots of times > simply. > > Last month when the duct tape and plastic scare was > happening (was it only last month? that can't be > right: two months ago) I remember sitting in a > classroom, looking out the window over the Hudson > river at the Catskill foothills thinking how strange > it was to be alive when suddenly *anything* could > happen. > > And all I could feel, in that end-of-winter-moment was > a quiet prayer to Whatever Made It, "I am so grateful > to have been alive in this world" > > and a feeling of surrender to whatever happened next. > I guess it was an actualization of the second line of > this yogic incantation we always do in yoga class: > "Lead us from the fear of death to knowledge of > immortality." > > i realize this has religious underpinnings that might > not be shared by everyone. > > But I was thinking this also when Agha Shahid Ali > died. That in all these mystic tradition from St > Teresa to Rumi to Lalla to Hindu mystics there is this > idea of a final transcendant union with the Divine. > > In Islam a prayer is uttered whenever one hears of a > death. The rough translation is "From Allah we came, > to Allah we return." > > While I never knew what Shahid Ali's religious beliefs > were we at least shared a Muslim upbringing. I liked > to think of him as being born of poetry and then > return to poetry: meaning "prana": meaning That-Which > holds all the molecules together. > > What I mean is: the molecules that have converged to > form the planet have only come together > temporarily--they'll make something else when the > planet (inevitably) flies apart. > > Poets are not dying; only fulfilling their physical > promise. We will all do this also. > > > --- Joel Weishaus wrote: > > There have been so many poets dying lately that I'd > > like to request that those of you who are planning > > to die please arrange your schedule with others. > > Otherwise, my mailbox gets too full and my heart too > > heavy. > > > > Thanks so much. > > Joel W. > > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:18:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Re: This Saturday Segue, don't miss Lisa Robertson and E. Tracy Grinnell Comments: cc: Susan Swenson , Tisa Bryant , Renee Gladman In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit SEGUE SERIES AT THE BOWERY presents. . . THIS SATURDAY, MAY 17 : E. TRACY GRINNELL and LISA ROBERTSON E. Tracy Grinnell is the author of music/or forgetting (O Books, 2001). Her poems have recently appeared in Conundrum, factorial!, Ribot, Primary Writing, and nocturnes (re)view of the literary arts. She is the editor of Litmus Press and Aufgabe. Lisa Robertson has published three books of poetry: XEclogue (Tsunami Editions/reissued by New Star) Debbie: An Epic (nominated for the Governor-General's Award for Poetry) and The Weather (winner - Relit Award for Poetry) (both co-published by New Star in Canada and Reality Street in the UK). A past member of the Kootenay School of Writing, she lives in Vancouver, Canada. and also don’t miss: MAY 24 TAYLOR BRADY and TYRONE WILLIAMS Taylor Brady is author of Microclimates (Krupskaya), 33549 (Leroy), and Is Placed/Leaves (Meow). A new book, Occupational Treatments, is in preparation for Atelos. He currently lives in San Francisco, where he serves on the board of directors of Small Press Traffic. Tyrone Williams teaches literature, literary theory and creative writing at Xavier University in Cincinnati, Ohio. He is the author of c.c. (Krupskaya), and Convalescence (Ridgeway Press). He has published poetry in Hambone, Callaloo, The Denver Quarterly, River Styx, The Kenyon Review, Artful Dodge, Berkeley Poetry Review, The Colorado Review, and others. MAY 31 MAGDALENA ZURAWSKI and JULIEN POIRER Magdalena Zurawski is a waiter/writer living in Philadelphia. She is currently writing a novel called THE BRUISE, which she hopes will turn her into a lesbian cult figure and relieve her from many of her present-day woes. Julien Poirier teaches poetry in the New York City Public Schools. He co-edits New York Nights and 6poets x 6pages with the other members of Loudmouth Collective/Ugly Duckling Presse. His work can be read in those publications and in several chapbooks artistically produced. http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue Foundation and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:14:06 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Memorial for Kirby Doyle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friday memorial for Kirby Doyle -- Beat writer, poet Steve Rubenstein, Chronicle Staff Writer Wednesday, May 14, 2003 C2003 San Francisco Chronicle | Feedback URL: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/0 5/14/BA310444.DTL A memorial poetry reading will be held Friday for Kirby Doyle, a Beat era poet and writer whose lyrical, evocative verses and brutal, bleakly humorous prose made him a mainstay of the North Beach literary scene. Mr. Doyle, 70, died April 5 at Laguna Honda Hospital in San Francisco after a long illness. "He was a handsome, big-smiled Irish American rascal," his longtime friend and fellow poet Michael McClure recalled. "He was an original Beat, loose- jointed, with a great laugh. His poetry was beautiful stuff." Mr. Doyle was a native of San Francisco, a U.S. Army veteran and a self- admitted poor student. "I failed every subject it was possible to fail in high school, and got kicked off the football team for smoking," he once said. In the 1950s he was a culinary school student and an art major at San Francisco State University when he began dashing off poetry for the college literary magazine and several small reviews. In the late 1950s, he wrote a highly acclaimed set of 36 brief love poems published under the title "Sapphobones." "Words like mad exotic birds fluttering/from my thorax/whipping my speech -- moist and gaudy feathers/gone from my lips upward -- " he wrote. His friend, the writer and editor Neeli Cherkovski, called Mr. Doyle's verse "poetry without boundaries that -- in clear, concise, musical language -- expressed something timeless about the human condition." Ten years later, Mr. Doyle wrote his first novel, "Happiness Bastard," on a long single roll of paper fed into a manual typewriter, in the same fashion that his contemporary, Jack Kerouac, wrote his famous "On the Road." "Happiness Bastard" was a dark, humorous story of a love affair, loosely based on Mr. Doyle's own struggle with drugs and broken hearts. In the 1960s and 1970s, Mr. Doyle abandoned writing for long periods, living alone on Mount Tamalpais and battling drug and alcohol addictions. In later years, Mr. Doyle worked on an epic poem titled "Pre American Ode" and a novella titled "White Flesh." The poetry reading will be held at 7 p.m. Friday at the New College of California cultural center, 766 Valencia St., San Francisco. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:30:43 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Kiosk 2 - Hannah Weiner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I want to mention that the new issue of Kiosk also includes an unpublished (and sort of obscure) short piece by Hannah Weiner entitled "Awareness and Communication" - notes for an untaught writing class from the archives, and incorporated in their entirety into my contribution to the issue courtesy of Charles Bernstein. I noticed in the announcement below there was no mention of Weiner as a contributor, but in some sense she is. * * * Dear All, The second issue of Kiosk is now available, and at four dollars, its "a real steal" to quote Nick Piombino. 292 pages (7" x 8.5") perfect-bound & printed on light gray 65 lb. paper with cover art by Lara Odell. Contributors to the 2003 Issue Include: Louis Cabri Abigail Child K. Silem Mohammad Rae Armantrout Craig Dworkin Rodrigo Toscano Rachel Blau DuPlessis Alan Halsey Leslie Scalapino Graham Foust Ofelia Pérez Sepúlveda (translated by Jen Hofer) Carla Faesler (translated by Jen Hofer) Donald Revell Chris McCreary Dan Featherston Nathan Austin Pattie McCarthy Michael Kelleher Patrick F. Durgin Robert Creeley Raymond Federman Bill Sylvester Kiosk is published annually with the support of the Poetics Program at the State University of New York at Buffalo. Subscription Rates: $4.00 secures an annual subscription for individuals. $12.00 secures an annual subscription for institutions. If ordering from overseas please add $1. ISSN: 1084-0532 Kiosk is distributed independently by the editors. Please send checks or money orders made out to Kiosk to the address below: Kiosk: A Journal of Poetry, Poetics and Experimental Prose State University of New York at Buffalo Samuel Clemens Hall Room 306 Buffalo, New York 14260-4610 Submissions accepted year round. More details at: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mags/kiosk.html All the best, Kyle _____________________ www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:05:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: toot MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit several sections of book-length poem "Home on the Range" just up at Jacket 22: http://jacketmagazine.com/22/nath-home.html --Tenney mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:35:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: "My Angie Dickinson" plus Robert Pinsky @ Mainstream Poetry Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, hub@dept.english.upenn.edu In-Reply-To: <109.231d0cb1.2be2f663@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Just a note to let you know that poems 1-10 and 11-20 of the series "My Angie Dickinson" are now up at http://www.mainstreampoetry.com . Wedged in between is an illuminating interview with Robert Pinsky. I claim the "Dickinson" poems as my own but I cannot claim to have had any part in the Pinsky interview, much as I'd like to. -m. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:03:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: "My Angie Dickinson" plus Robert Pinsky @ Mainstream Poetry MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am surprised that an interview with Pinsky can be illuminating :-) Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 2:35 PM Subject: "My Angie Dickinson" plus Robert Pinsky @ Mainstream Poetry > Hi all, > > Just a note to let you know that poems 1-10 and 11-20 of the series "My Angie > Dickinson" are now up at http://www.mainstreampoetry.com . Wedged in between > is an illuminating interview with Robert Pinsky. I claim the "Dickinson" poems > as my own but I cannot claim to have had any part in the Pinsky interview, much > as I'd like to. > > -m. > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:16:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Printed Matter In-Reply-To: <1052940932.3ec29a84be77a@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit It seems like everything is being printed from and/or on a computer nowadays. Immateriality is conquering the world. Nonetheless, I would still like to do a few things the old way via the physical impression of words onto the page, and I am wondering if this is still a viable option. Maybe a publisher can tell me. I want to take a text that I have formatted in Quark Xpress and print it out using some kind of a digitally interfaced typesetting machine. What I would like to end up with is for the words to be lightly embossed on the paper as they are in standard (pre-computer) printing methods. I also am hoping I can get a variety of different levels of black for the lettering, as is easily possible in a program like Quark where you can set the shading from 0 to 100%. So, is there a single printing process that can make this happen? Ideas and/or links to info would be much appreciated. m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 15:23:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: Re: Printed Matter In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why not just handset the type to begin with? On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 03:16 PM, MWP wrote: > It seems like everything is being printed from and/or on a computer > nowadays. Immateriality is conquering the world. Nonetheless, I would > still > like to do a few things the old way via the physical impression of > words > onto the page, and I am wondering if this is still a viable option. > Maybe a > publisher can tell me. > > I want to take a text that I have formatted in Quark Xpress and print > it out > using some kind of a digitally interfaced typesetting machine. What I > would > like to end up with is for the words to be lightly embossed on the > paper as > they are in standard (pre-computer) printing methods. I also am hoping > I can > get a variety of different levels of black for the lettering, as is > easily > possible in a program like Quark where you can set the shading from 0 > to > 100%. > > So, is there a single printing process that can make this happen? Ideas > and/or links to info would be much appreciated. > > > m > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:31:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: Printed Matter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit letterpress ----- Original Message ----- From: "MWP" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 4:16 PM Subject: Printed Matter > It seems like everything is being printed from and/or on a computer > nowadays. Immateriality is conquering the world. Nonetheless, I would still > like to do a few things the old way via the physical impression of words > onto the page, and I am wondering if this is still a viable option. Maybe a > publisher can tell me. > > I want to take a text that I have formatted in Quark Xpress and print it out > using some kind of a digitally interfaced typesetting machine. What I would > like to end up with is for the words to be lightly embossed on the paper as > they are in standard (pre-computer) printing methods. I also am hoping I can > get a variety of different levels of black for the lettering, as is easily > possible in a program like Quark where you can set the shading from 0 to > 100%. > > So, is there a single printing process that can make this happen? Ideas > and/or links to info would be much appreciated. > > > m > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:43:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Re: "My Angie Dickinson" plus Robert Pinsky @ Mainstream Poetry In-Reply-To: <005c01c31a53$d79db2f0$605e3318@LINKAGE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Ordinarily I'd agree, but this is a "special" interview. -m. Quoting Geoffrey Gatza : > I am surprised that an interview with Pinsky can be illuminating :-) > > > Best, Geoffrey > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 2:35 PM > Subject: "My Angie Dickinson" plus Robert Pinsky @ Mainstream Poetry > > > > Hi all, > > > > Just a note to let you know that poems 1-10 and 11-20 of the series "My > Angie > > Dickinson" are now up at http://www.mainstreampoetry.com . Wedged in > between > > is an illuminating interview with Robert Pinsky. I claim the "Dickinson" > poems > > as my own but I cannot claim to have had any part in the Pinsky interview, > much > > as I'd like to. > > > > -m. > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:50:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Printed Matter In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Call Steve Woodal or Katy Barr at the Center for the Book in San Francisco (you can find their web site for phone number). Either one will be able to point to somebody who has expertise in connecting bytes to polymer plates - perhaps Eric Holub - which will get the effect you want on texture (the punch). (Tho "embossment" is the elevation of the letters created by punching down everything on the page except the letters.) Shading the text in varieties of blacks is harder to do letter-press (more runs and costly). "Text" I believe has its origins in Greek and once literally met "to weave". Which makes a nice intersection with the process of writing - weaving in out of pixels - on the monitor screen. "Texture", however, in a felt or tactile sense totally disappears the experience of reading and not touching the smooth monitor. The absence of which drives many back to letter press and metal type. (Tho I suspect there are biomorphic computers that you both hug and get the look and feel the language at hand or "at body" so to speak. Metal typesetting, paper making and book binding Classes at the Center for the Book are often full and often full of monitor/key board groggy workers - hungry for the touch of the real thing. Stephen Vincent on 5/14/03 1:16 PM, MWP at mpalmer@JPS.NET wrote: > It seems like everything is being printed from and/or on a computer > nowadays. Immateriality is conquering the world. Nonetheless, I would still > like to do a few things the old way via the physical impression of words > onto the page, and I am wondering if this is still a viable option. Maybe a > publisher can tell me. > > I want to take a text that I have formatted in Quark Xpress and print it out > using some kind of a digitally interfaced typesetting machine. What I would > like to end up with is for the words to be lightly embossed on the paper as > they are in standard (pre-computer) printing methods. I also am hoping I can > get a variety of different levels of black for the lettering, as is easily > possible in a program like Quark where you can set the shading from 0 to > 100%. > > So, is there a single printing process that can make this happen? Ideas > and/or links to info would be much appreciated. > > > m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:58:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Printed Matter In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed offset printing, which was the standard immediately pre-computer, and still is the standard for most commercial printing, has no such "lightly embossed" effect. miekal is right, you want letterpress printing. you don't have to hand set the type as he suggests, but that's one very good way. another is to have a polymer plate made, but then you also have to print it or have someone print it for you. you might contact harold kyle at boxcar press -- . as for your "different levels of black," with letterpress printing you can mix whatever color of grey you like, but you need a different press run for each color. So you're talking about a potentially very expensive printing job. of course, you can get the greys by using half-tones, which can be made into metal or polymer plates, and with different dot-screens for the half-tones, you can at least approximate different shades of grey. commercially, though, even having a small chapbook letterpress-printed, if you hire someone to do it, can cost at least a few thousand dollars, and it will cost more for multiple colors. charles At 03:23 PM 5/14/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Why not just handset the type to begin with? > >On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 03:16 PM, MWP wrote: > >>It seems like everything is being printed from and/or on a computer >>nowadays. Immateriality is conquering the world. Nonetheless, I would >>still >>like to do a few things the old way via the physical impression of >>words >>onto the page, and I am wondering if this is still a viable option. >>Maybe a >>publisher can tell me. >> >>I want to take a text that I have formatted in Quark Xpress and print >>it out >>using some kind of a digitally interfaced typesetting machine. What I >>would >>like to end up with is for the words to be lightly embossed on the >>paper as >>they are in standard (pre-computer) printing methods. I also am hoping >>I can >>get a variety of different levels of black for the lettering, as is >>easily >>possible in a program like Quark where you can set the shading from 0 >>to >>100%. >> >>So, is there a single printing process that can make this happen? Ideas >>and/or links to info would be much appreciated. >> >> >>m > >charles alexander / chax press > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:57:03 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Cop Makes Midnight Raid of Teacher's Classroom Comments: To: francobe@aol.com, deeplistening@yahoogroups.com, oconn001@umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >X-From_: jlandry@UMassD.Edu Wed May 14 12:29:02 2003 >Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:34:25 -0400 >From: John Landry >Subject: Cop Makes Midnight Raid of Teacher's Classroom >To: friends ENL10254 BlkMtnSPRING2003:; >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: >http://umn.edu/mc/s?BPGOZVg8694jRkaCsf1UiaSh.AZqlix.s8rXlLCNEdoe4ZaODnmVWXt= EdLyGNumEDbx6aJMPiEI0 >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] umassd.edu #+NM+UF+CP (A,-) >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-c5.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > > > >Published on Saturday, May 10, 2003 >by The Progressive > > >McCarthyism Watch >Cop Makes Midnight Raid of Teacher's Classroom > >by Matthew Rothschild > > >Tom Treece gives a course called "Public Issues" at >Spaulding High School in Barre, Vermont. Right now, >he's embroiled in a public issue himself, after a >local police officer entered his classroom under >peculiar circumstances on April 9 to take photographs >of student artwork. > >The uniformed police officer, John Mott, went into the >class at 1:30 in the morning. He told the Times Argus, >which broke the story on May 5, that "he entered the >school through an unlocked maintenance door." The >school superintendent, Dorothy Anderson, says he >banged on the front door of the school and got the >custodian to let him in. > >In any event, he convinced the custodian to unlock the >door to Treece's classroom, and he took a picture of a >student project that showed President Bush with duct >tape over his mouth, and the words: "Put your duct >tape to good use. Shut your mouth." > >Treece told me this project was part of an assignment >for a unit he was teaching on Iraq. It had three >parts. The first part was to participate in a debate >on whether to invade Iraq. The second was to write a >paper defending your perspective on the issue. And the >third was to make a poster illustrating your point of >view. Six of his students put together the offending >poster. > >Mott, who did not return several calls from me, told >the Times Argus, "I wanted everybody else to see what >was in that room." The paper said the students' >project "offended him as an American and a retired >military man." He told the paper, "Having spent 30 >years in uniform, I was insulted. I'm just taking a >stand on what happens in that classroom as a resident >and a voter and a taxpayer in the community." > >Mott, incidentally, used to work at Spaulding High as >the JROTC officer. > >Superintendent Anderson was not happy that Mott >entered the school during off-hours to further his own >political agenda. > >"I find this behavior, at the very least, in violation >of our policy for visitors at the school," she wrote >Police Chief Michael Stevens on April 16. "I also find >it disturbing that a police officer would wear his >uniform under such circumstances, thereby intimidating >our employee into letting him in the building at a >very unusual hour. I question the intent of his visit. >Why could he not have come during regular school >hours? Please look into this matter and determine if >any ethical or legal guidelines were breached." > >According to Anderson, the police chief told her "he >was going to handle it administratively." Chief >Stevens did not return several phone calls from The >Progressive. > >On his radio show, Rush Limbaugh called Mott a hero >and posted the students' artwork on the Limbaugh web >page. > >Anderson is not happy about that. "These kids didn't >turn these projects in with any understanding that >they would end up on Rush Limbaugh," she said. "Their >parents feel very violated and angry." > >According to the Times Argus, Mott at least initially >"refused orders from Barre Town Police Chief Michael >Stevens and Town Manager Carl Rogers to supply school >officials with copies of the photographs." > >Anderson says she does not want the police department >to pursue charges against Mott. > >"There's a huge bonfire here already burning," she >says. "I don't want to throw gasoline on it." > >The student artwork is just part of the bonfire. > >Treece got heat for something he himself posted about >the Iraq War, and both controversies have become >embroiled in the local school budget that is up for a >vote. > >"After 9/11 we put up this dialogue board, where >teachers and students are allowed to put up their >written opinions on various issues," explains >Anderson. > >The postings had to be signed and dated, and could not >be vulgar, Anderson says. > >Treece used the board, as did other teachers, as well >as students, some of whom wrote, "Love it or leave >it," he says. "In March, a couple of teachers had up a >picture of George Bush, with a question, 'Are we >headed for tyranny?' Another question was, 'Should we >impeach him?' The following day, one teacher posted a >set of impeachment articles that had been circulating >on the web, and I posted another," Treece recalls. >"Two days after that, I posted a little notecard-sized >paper that said, 'All hail the idiot boy king,' That >started the whole fury." > >Two residents, Paul and Norma Malone, who have founded >a group called Citizens Advocating Responsible >Education, wrote a letter to the Times Argus that was >published on March 28. > >"It is unrealistic to expect that current world events >would not be a topic of discussion among students or >faculty," they wrote. "But it is quite another matter >for a teacher to use taxpayer dollars (his salary, the >school facility, and related resources) to proselytize >his leftwing political rhetoric and anti-establishment >rhetoric. Of particular concern is the lack of respect >shown in this reference to the President of the United >States as 'the idiot boy king.' We would advise the >board and the administration to examine Mr. Treece's >teaching practices and course materials. We would >encourage parents and members of the community to >acquaint themselves with these current activities of >concern at SHS." > >Anderson says she asked Treece to take the "idiot boy >king" note down. "It was in bad taste, it was strongly >worded, and it may discourage his students from >offering an opposite viewpoint," she says. Treece >complied. > >That did not mollify some local residents. > >At a school board meeting on April 7, "about three >dozen residents" came "to confront the school board >about a bulletin board they say has been abused by >faculty promoting an anti-American agenda," the Times >Argus reported. They also objected to bumper stickers >Treece had on his door that said, "Impeach Bush," and, >"Vermonters for a Bush/Cheney Regime Change." > >Treece says that some of these residents have been >calling for his head. "Fire Treece, and we'll pass the >budget" is a comment he says people have made. > >(The citizens of Barre must pass a school budget every >year. The first budget failed to pass in March. The >next vote is May 13.) > >Treece says a flier was circulating in town with his >yearbook picture on it, along with a copy of his >"Impeach Bush" sticker, and the words, "We cannot >allow this kind of stuff to happen in our schools. >Overturn the budget on May 13." > >Anderson defends Treece's teaching practices. "In the >course of his teaching, he does present both sides and >gives resources on both sides," she says. > >But she is pursuing administrative action against him. > > >"I can't teach that class anymore," Treece says. After >this year, "they've removed me from the class." >According to Treece, the administration told him, "We >feel that Treece is a lightning rod, and his teaching >that course would be a disruption to the orderly >educational process we'd like to see restored at >Spaulding." > >Treece is "very upset" about losing this class. "This >is purely a political move on their part," he says. > >The controversy has taken a toll on him. > >"My reputation has been spoiled," he says. "I haven't >got a lot of rest in the last month." > >Copyright =A9 2003 The Progressive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend. >Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. > (Groucho Marx) -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:18:05 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Re: Printed Matter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm glad this discussion is taking place here. Harold Kyle does = excellent work and has helped me get my own shop organized here in = Buffalo. Happily I've just finished printing my first book using = polymer through-and-through this afternoon. Although Charles is right = to point out that the cost can be quite high if you're sending it out to = a job printer, if you can learn to do it yourself it is actually cheaper = than photocopies and a lot more fun. The plates don't deteriorate, = which means that you can bring the book back into print ten years from = now, where monotype has to be consistently, and patiently redistributed. = As digital fonts continue to improve (the P22 Foundry = http://www.p22.com/ is one example) the semblance to monotype is = stunning. =20 Unlike monotype, polymer combines the fluidity of digital design with a = traditional letterpress aesthetic and in my opinion, radicalized the = possibilities of the book. Gerald Lange has written the most = authoratatative book on the subject I am aware of, entitled Printing = digital type on the hand-operated flatbed cylinder press. Harold sells = these through Boxcar Press. If you're near a center for the book, there = may be a way to learn the process yourself, as there is a deep = satisfaction in working intimately with the materials. Also, there is a = useful directory of resources at = http://members.aol.com/aapa96/lpress.html. All Best, Kyle ----- Original Message -----=20 From: charles alexander=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 3:58 PM Subject: Re: Printed Matter offset printing, which was the standard immediately pre-computer, and = still is the standard for most commercial printing, has no such "lightly embossed" effect. miekal is right, you want letterpress printing. you don't have to hand = set the type as he suggests, but that's one very good way. another is to = have a polymer plate made, but then you also have to print it or have someone print it for you. you might contact harold kyle at boxcar press -- . as for your "different levels of black," = with letterpress printing you can mix whatever color of grey you like, but = you need a different press run for each color. So you're talking about a potentially very expensive printing job. of course, you can get the = greys by using half-tones, which can be made into metal or polymer plates, and with different dot-screens for the half-tones, you can at least = approximate different shades of grey. commercially, though, even having a small chapbook letterpress-printed, = if you hire someone to do it, can cost at least a few thousand dollars, and = it will cost more for multiple colors. charles At 03:23 PM 5/14/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Why not just handset the type to begin with? > >On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 03:16 PM, MWP wrote: > >>It seems like everything is being printed from and/or on a computer >>nowadays. Immateriality is conquering the world. Nonetheless, I would >>still >>like to do a few things the old way via the physical impression of >>words >>onto the page, and I am wondering if this is still a viable option. >>Maybe a >>publisher can tell me. >> >>I want to take a text that I have formatted in Quark Xpress and print >>it out >>using some kind of a digitally interfaced typesetting machine. What I >>would >>like to end up with is for the words to be lightly embossed on the >>paper as >>they are in standard (pre-computer) printing methods. I also am hoping >>I can >>get a variety of different levels of black for the lettering, as is >>easily >>possible in a program like Quark where you can set the shading from 0 >>to >>100%. >> >>So, is there a single printing process that can make this happen? = Ideas >>and/or links to info would be much appreciated. >> >> >>m > >charles alexander / chax press > >fold the book inside the book keep it open always > read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:59:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Printed Matter In-Reply-To: <003501c31a88$38ac0d60$54e9cd80@administpii39e> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks all of you for all the input! My own idea (never tested to see if it would work) is that I create a series of copper photoetching plates from the laser-printed pages, and then make the print run myself. That way I can control the depth of the embossing and also get different shades on the lettering without having to do multiple ink runs. I will look into this polymer process, though. The reasons for me not to do straight hand-typesetting are many. First because I don't know how and don't really want to learn, and second because the computer can do things with text that are way too difficult to do by hand. Also, I want to combine a semi-homemade look with an ultramodern look so that the two sides get to play off of each other, in the same way that the materiality -- tactility? -- of the embossing process and the immateriality of the computerized stage of the process are messed with and brought into a not quite perfect, but hopefully still beautiful, marriage of convenience. (Of course, I am planning to have the textual content itself be partly a reference to all of this and thus achieve an integration of form, content and medium.) m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 19:14:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Little help? Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear New York poets: I'm planning a reading trip to New York spanning Thursday, May 22nd to Tuesday morning, May 27th. My original plan was to room with a more monied relative, who will be in town on business at the same time, expense account for hotel rooms in tow. Unfortunately, this person's trip has been shortened at the last minute, leaving me without a place to stay the nights of Sunday the 25th and Monday the 26th. Is there anyone in the area who would be willing to put me up for those two nights? I really can't afford the hotel room for the extra two nights on my own, though I can afford to buy whatever food I eat, would be happy to cook for you, etc. I'm pretty quiet and unobtrusive as a houseguest, no vile habits that I'm aware of (ok, I smoke, but I don't do that inside even at home). If anyone can help me out with this minor dilemma, I'd be most grateful. Thanks, Taylor Brady ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:15:15 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Re: Kiosk 2 - Hannah Weiner MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for the thoughtful clarification Patrick. Weiner's "Awareness = and Communication" appears here for the first time with Patrick's = substantial point of perpetual inquiry entitled "Journalism - notes on = Hannah Weiner." =20 I should also mention that this issue is dedicated to Leslie Fiedler = (1917-2003) and includes a special section on his life and work with = contributions from Robert Creeley, Raymond Federman & Bill Sylvester. More details at: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mags/kiosk.html Best as Ever, Kyle -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Patrick F. Durgin=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 12:30 PM Subject: Kiosk 2 - Hannah Weiner I want to mention that the new issue of Kiosk also includes an = unpublished (and sort of obscure) short piece by Hannah Weiner entitled "Awareness = and Communication" - notes for an untaught writing class from the archives, = and incorporated in their entirety into my contribution to the issue = courtesy of Charles Bernstein. I noticed in the announcement below there was no = mention of Weiner as a contributor, but in some sense she is. * * * Dear All, The second issue of Kiosk is now available, and at four dollars, its "a = real steal" to quote Nick Piombino. 292 pages (7" x 8.5") perfect-bound & printed on light gray 65 lb. paper with cover art by Lara Odell. Contributors to the 2003 Issue Include: Louis Cabri Abigail Child K. Silem Mohammad Rae Armantrout Craig Dworkin Rodrigo Toscano Rachel Blau DuPlessis Alan Halsey Leslie Scalapino Graham Foust Ofelia P=E9rez Sep=FAlveda (translated by Jen Hofer) Carla Faesler (translated by Jen Hofer) Donald Revell Chris McCreary Dan Featherston Nathan Austin Pattie McCarthy Michael Kelleher Patrick F. Durgin Robert Creeley Raymond Federman Bill Sylvester Kiosk is published annually with the support of the Poetics Program at = the State University of New York at Buffalo. Subscription Rates: $4.00 secures an annual subscription for individuals. $12.00 secures an annual subscription for institutions. If ordering from overseas please add $1. ISSN: 1084-0532 Kiosk is distributed independently by the editors. Please send checks or money orders made out to Kiosk to the address below: Kiosk: A Journal of Poetry, Poetics and Experimental Prose State University of New York at Buffalo Samuel Clemens Hall Room 306 Buffalo, New York 14260-4610 Submissions accepted year round. =20 _____________________ www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Patrick F. Durgin=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 12:30 PM Subject: Kiosk 2 - Hannah Weiner I want to mention that the new issue of Kiosk also includes an = unpublished (and sort of obscure) short piece by Hannah Weiner entitled "Awareness = and Communication" - notes for an untaught writing class from the archives, = and incorporated in their entirety into my contribution to the issue = courtesy of Charles Bernstein. I noticed in the announcement below there was no = mention of Weiner as a contributor, but in some sense she is. * * * Dear All, The second issue of Kiosk is now available, and at four dollars, its "a = real steal" to quote Nick Piombino. 292 pages (7" x 8.5") perfect-bound & printed on light gray 65 lb. paper with cover art by Lara Odell. Contributors to the 2003 Issue Include: Louis Cabri Abigail Child K. Silem Mohammad Rae Armantrout Craig Dworkin Rodrigo Toscano Rachel Blau DuPlessis Alan Halsey Leslie Scalapino Graham Foust Ofelia P=E9rez Sep=FAlveda (translated by Jen Hofer) Carla Faesler (translated by Jen Hofer) Donald Revell Chris McCreary Dan Featherston Nathan Austin Pattie McCarthy Michael Kelleher Patrick F. Durgin Robert Creeley Raymond Federman Bill Sylvester Kiosk is published annually with the support of the Poetics Program at = the State University of New York at Buffalo. Subscription Rates: $4.00 secures an annual subscription for individuals. $12.00 secures an annual subscription for institutions. If ordering from overseas please add $1. ISSN: 1084-0532 Kiosk is distributed independently by the editors. Please send checks or money orders made out to Kiosk to the address below: Kiosk: A Journal of Poetry, Poetics and Experimental Prose State University of New York at Buffalo Samuel Clemens Hall Room 306 Buffalo, New York 14260-4610 Submissions accepted year round. More details at: http://writing.upenn.edu/epc/mags/kiosk.html All the best, Kyle _____________________ www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 21:24:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Speaking About Myself in the Second Person MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Speaking About Myself in the Second Person It is strangely like moving a body surpassing the need to live almost trusting that not you but another is right there with you making sky seem the plane where you are because you reach it not caring if you do the thought that it is there for you to reach is enough the way there seems to you very natural as if you stumble over clouds and yourself just so you possibly can see -Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:05:47 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: http://www.asondheim.org/leaning.jpg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.asondheim.org/leaning.jpg leaning into the dark positioning of the world i watch the biological prosthetics of the body transform themselves into dark realms and greater props :: my body becomes propped and held into positions :: properly :: already the chemicals take over :: these four pills harbouring within them the soul of a fifth :: observing the propriety of the body :: flexing muscles and barnacles :: shafts of limpets :: roots of mangrove :: the calculus of fading wisdom | more :: to come < defuge.pl > the harbour propped against both skin and hair :: these whitened eyes :: green snakes brown snakes mangrove snakes | less the loss of it < calcinification > rock-salt and crystal >> this old world << from every side :: older age and Earth::Light and loaded with it << All ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:15:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Walking etc. theme of D Kennedy's The Paper/ new issue #6 + thoughts Comments: cc: sandrasphillips@hotmail.com, Andrew Moss , D G & C V Kennedy In-Reply-To: <003501c31a88$38ac0d60$54e9cd80@administpii39e> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I don't think David Kennedy is on this list, but The Paper, his English mag is out with an issue whose dynamic focus is ""Movement Motion Notation" - with lots of nice stuff on the relationship of walking (urban and rural) and making works (poems, books, sculpture), as well as dance and performance. Interview, essay, and poem contributions include Sean Bonney, Karen MacCormack, Colin Simms, Stuart Mugridge, Elaine Randell, David Kennedy, Lawrence Upton and yours truly. $10 postage included 29 Vickers Road Firth Park Sheffield S5 6UY United Kingdom While reading The Paper I was again taken, in a good interview with Stuart Mugridge (walker, sculptor/ book maker and poet) by a Robert Smithson early seventies quote, "Many parks and gardens are a recreation of the lost paradise of Eden, and not the dialectical sites of the present. Parks and gardens are pictorial in their origin - landscapes created with natural materials rather than paint. Scenic ideals which surround our national parks are carriers for a nostalgia for heavenly bliss and eternal calmness. Apart from the ideal gardens of the past, and their modern counter parts - national and urban parks, there are more infernal regions - slag heaps, strip mines and polluted rivers." That mind set definitely put a different set of legs on the possibilities of walking directions, urban & rural landscape views , concepts of the sublime and language making. (Though when I say that I immediately think Smithson's view is already presaged by Williams in Patterson - the eye to decay - and Reznikoff's counter-sublime wanderings & Manhattan materials). To divert further, it will be interesting to visit DIA's new indoor mega-sculpture garden when it opens in Beacon, New York and question whether the sculptural sites (Judd, Serra, Heizer, DeMaria, Chamberlain, etc.) - within the former and enormous nineteenth century Nabisco box printing factory - will be viewed and consumed as a re-invention of an "orderly sublime" - devoid of any material inclusion or reference to Smithson's slag heaps or "infernal regions." Heah, poets, peripatetic, take all! Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 02:27:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: Tacit poetry and Theory of practice confabulated MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Very apt phrase, I think, especially in its psychiatric sense: Pronunciation kEn faeb yE le shEn Definition 1. the act or an instance of chatting casually. Crossref. Syn. chat Definition 2. in psychiatry, the substitution of fantasy for fact in the memory. noun: (psychiatry) a plausible but imagined memory that fills in gaps in what is remembered noun: an informal conversation verb: unconsciously replace fact with fantasy in one's memory (psychiatry) verb: have a conference in order to talk something over verb: chew the fat; shoot the breeze I would tend to define it as to spin fables collaboratively which would apply to most threads, lists, etc. on the internet so I don't know you were referring to the thread, the list, or to my post? confraternally yours tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "tlrelf" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Tacit poetry and Theory of practice > Now this article is definitely intriguing. Sort of like confabulation? > Ter> ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 01:25:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Uhze MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Uhze UhZE-YOUelkeyome KAYut, M!=!, UhZE-YOUelkeyome Ayrkeyrash, 4 Organ, M!=!, hZoot, Ayrkeyrash, Mouth, Organ, hZkeyan, hZoot, Trylb! 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Pe abauyaya abukeyhuya emaht! emaht-ya abauyaya dyngyr-ab.bu-ya abukeyhuya emaht-ya abauyaya dyngyr-ab.bu-ya abukeyhuya emaht-ya abauyaya dyngyr-ab.bu-ya abukeyhuya emaht-ya abauyaya dyngyr-ab.bu-ya abukeyhuya ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 00:57:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: ROBUST CONTEXT SWITCHING - PART I-III MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ROBUST CONTEXT SWITCHING - PART I-III cause turns section windshield passenger engine drive shafts rotational defroster compartment heat wheels gears force drivetrain supply warm rotate eventually engine print heat interior various cause crankshaft section windshield passenger components drive turns rotational defroster compartment link wheels shafts force drivetrain supply crankshaft rotate gears engine print heat drive various eventually crankshaft section windshield wheels components cause turns rotational defroster make link drive shafts force drivetrain up crankshaft wheels gears engine print drivetrain drive rotate eventually crankshaft section major wheels various cause turns rotational parts make components drive shafts force drivetrain up link wheels gears engine include drivetrain crankshaft rotate eventually crankshaft transmission major drive various cause turns one parts wheels components drive shafts more drivetrain make link wheels gears driveshafts include up crankshaft rotate eventually differential transmission drivetrain drive various cause gears one major wheels components drive axles more parts make link wheels transmission driveshafts drivetrain up crankshaft rotate transmission differential include drivetrain drive various also gears transmission major wheels components known axles one parts make link gearbox transmission more drivetrain up crankshaft transfers transmission driveshafts include drivetrain drive power also differential transmission major wheels engine known gears one parts make driveshaft gearbox axles more drivetrain up engine transfers transmission driveshafts include drivetrain crankshaft power transmission differential transmission major rotates engine also gears one parts combinations driveshaft known axles more drivetrain transmission engine gearbox transmission driveshafts include gears crankshaft transfers transmission differential transmission pass rotates power also gears one energy combinations engine known axles more along transmission driveshaft gearbox transmission driveshafts driveshaft gears engine transfers transmission differential driveshaft pass crankshaft power also gears causes energy rotates engine known axles axles along combinations driveshaft gearbox transmission rotate driveshaft transmission engine transfers transmission turn driveshaft gears crankshaft power also wheels causes pass rotates engine known using axles energy combinations driveshaft gearbox gears rotate along transmission engine transfers different turn driveshaft gears crankshaft power sizes wheels driveshaft pass rotates engine transmission using causes energy combinations driveshaft alters gears axles along transmission engine rotational different rotate driveshaft gears crankshaft speed sizes turn driveshaft pass rotates torque transmission wheels causes energy combinations engine alters using axles along transmission passed rotational gears rotate driveshaft gears along speed different turn driveshaft pass driveshaft torque sizes wheels causes energy higher engine transmission using axles along gears passed alters gears rotate driveshaft permit along rotational different turn driveshaft car driveshaft speed sizes wheels causes travel higher torque transmission using axles faster gears engine alters gears rotate while permit passed rotational different turn low car along speed sizes wheels gears travel driveshaft torque transmission using provide faster higher engine alters gears more while gears passed rotational different power low permit along speed sizes starting gears car driveshaft torque transmission car provide travel higher engine alters standstill more faster gears passed rotational climbing power while permit along speed hills starting low car driveshaft torque transmission car gears travel higher engine usually standstill provide faster gears passed located climbing more while permit along just hills power low car driveshaft engine transmission starting gears travel higher some usually car provide faster gears ROBUST CONTEXT SWITCHING - PART II took women changed impact industrial human root children daily nature revolution history grew regions lives work also changes growth where ordinary significantly considerable society cities took men changed impact industrial one root women daily nature revolution most grew children lives work also obvious growth regions ordinary significantly considerable changes cities where men changed impact people one took women daily nature lives most root children lives work more obvious grew regions ordinary significantly people changes growth where men changed moved people cities took women daily urban lives one root children lives areas more most grew regions ordinary where people obvious growth where men factories moved changes cities took women located urban people one root children many areas lives most grew regions agricultural where more obvious growth where laborers factories people changes cities took who located moved people one root left many urban lives most grew villages agricultural areas more obvious growth forced laborers where people changes cities move who factories moved people one beginning left located urban lives most early villages many areas more obvious century forced agricultural where people changes more move laborers factories moved people people beginning who located urban lives rural early left many areas more areas century villages agricultural where people competing more forced laborers factories moved fewer people move who located urban jobs rural beginning left many areas rural areas early villages agricultural where population competing century forced laborers factories risen fewer more move who located sharply jobs people beginning left many new rural rural early villages agricultural sources population areas century forced laborers food risen competing more move who became sharply fewer people beginning left available new jobs rural early villages death sources rural areas century forced rates food population competing more move declined became risen fewer people beginning due available sharply jobs rural early fewer death new rural areas century plagues rates sources population competing more wars declined food risen fewer people same due became sharply jobs rural time fewer available new rural areas many plagues death sources population competing small wars rates food risen fewer farms same declined became sharply jobs disappeared time due available new rural partly many fewer death sources population because small plagues rates food risen new farms wars declined became sharply enclosure disappeared same due available new laws partly time fewer death sources required because many plagues rates food farmers new small wars declined became put enclosure farms same due available fences laws disappeared time fewer death hedges required partly many plagues rates fields farmers because small wars declined prevent put new farms same due common fences enclosure disappeared time fewer grazing hedges laws partly many plagues land fields required because small wars some prevent farmers new farms same small common put enclosure disappeared time farmers grazing fences laws partly many who land hedges required because small afford some fields farmers new farms enclose small prevent put enclosure disappeared fields farmers common fences laws partly sell who grazing hedges required because larger afford land fields farmers new landholders enclose some prevent put enclosure search fields small common fences laws work sell farmers grazing hedges required elsewhere larger who land fields farmers these landholders afford some prevent put factors search enclose small common fences combined work fields farmers grazing hedges provide elsewhere sell who land fields ready these larger afford some prevent work factors landholders enclose small common force combined search fields farmers grazing new provide work sell who land industries ready elsewhere larger afford some new work these landholders enclose small ROBUST CONTEXT SWITCHING - PART III components eniac guglielmo charles transplants scan sputnik microprocessor marconi kinsey sigmund endoscopic space personal radar margaret freud surgery shuttle computer screen mead alfred medical discovery components transistor guglielmo charles transplants first sputnik eniac marconi kinsey sigmund steps space microprocessor radar margaret freud moon shuttle personal screen mead alfred international discovery computer transistor guglielmo charles space first components eniac marconi kinsey station steps sputnik microprocessor radar margaret demonstration moon space personal screen mead hubble international shuttle computer transistor guglielmo law space discovery components eniac marconi albert station first sputnik microprocessor radar einstein demonstration steps space personal screen first hubble moon shuttle computer transistor chain law international discovery components eniac reaction albert space first sputnik microprocessor particle einstein station steps space personal accelerators first demonstration moon shuttle computer chain hubble international discovery components reaction law space first sputnik particle albert station steps space accelerators einstein demonstration moon shuttle first hubble international discovery world chain law space first trade reaction albert station steps center particle einstein demonstration moon multimedia accelerators first hubble international items world chain law space world trade reaction albert station trade center particle einstein demonstration center multimedia accelerators first hubble complex items chain law seven world world reaction albert commercial trade trade particle einstein buildings center center accelerators first new complex multimedia chain york seven items world reaction city commercial world trade particle demolished buildings trade center accelerators terrorist new center multimedia attack york complex items world september city seven world trade best-known demolished commercial trade center buildings terrorist buildings center multimedia world attack new complex items world trade september york seven world trade center best-known city commercial trade center twin buildings demolished buildings center multimedia skyscrapers world terrorist new complex items designed trade attack york seven world american center september city commercial trade architect twin best-known demolished buildings center minoru skyscrapers buildings terrorist new complex yamasaki designed world attack york seven firm american trade september city commercial emery architect center best-known demolished buildings roth minoru twin buildings terrorist new sons yamasaki skyscrapers world attack york these firm designed trade september city story emery american center best-known demolished towers roth architect twin buildings terrorist built sons minoru skyscrapers world attack lower these yamasaki designed trade september manhattan story firm american center best-known quickly towers emery architect twin buildings became built roth minoru skyscrapers world distinctive lower sons yamasaki designed trade feature manhattan these firm american center new quickly story emery architect twin york became towers roth minoru skyscrapers city distinctive built sons yamasaki designed skyline feature lower these firm american symbol new manhattan story emery architect city york quickly towers roth minoru financial city became built sons yamasaki power skyline distinctive lower these firm tower symbol feature manhattan story august highland hyper-literary fiction muse apprentice guild culture animal --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. 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In the forest asian | rape chat, teleconferencing gives proceed invites anal anal Teen,. Nude photos photo stop walking. messy. gives at this time because all all sex,. Shemale sucking ass stop fitness fitness invites in our hearts penis, |. At this time transexual phone, exhibitionists devotes stop devotes time, and and. august highland hyper-literary fiction metapoetics theatre --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:06:41 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In my post dated May 13, I wrote "I wouldn't argue that such an outside exists." I meant to write: "I wouldn't disagree that such an outside exists." Don't know how that happened. Sorry. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:19:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Door Wide Open Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable News flash: Pay WHAT YOU WILL on opening weekend of Door Wide Open SATURDAY MAY 17th & SUNDAY MAY 18th 7:30! ----- On behalf of Sanctuary Theater Workshop, playwright Joyce Johnson, and the estate of Jack Kerouac We are proud to announce the opening of the new play DOOR WIDE OPEN At the Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery, NYC this Saturday, May 17th at 7:30pm With performances every Saturday & Sunday At 7:30pm, through June. For reservations and information, call 212-614-0505, Or book tickets on-line at www.bowerypoetry.com Tickets $15. An Actors Equity Showcase. SPECIAL DEAL FOR POETS!!!! Use the code word MIRANDA for $10 tickets at any performance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Click on the following link to zZoz.com For a feature on the play, with a beautiful color photo of John Ventimiglia & Adira Amram as Jack Kerouac & Joyce Johnson: http://www.zzoz.com/theater.html DOOR WIDE OPEN is a memory play. Through the intimate correspondence of writers Jack Kerouac and Joyce Johnson, we are swept back to the cultural foment of the late fifties. Joyce today, looking back, and Joyce then, living the letters= , are our guides. Through the frame of a wiser, more cynical woman confrontin= g her younger, more idealistic self, we see Kerouac in the defining moments o= f his career, skyrocketing to fame=85and crashing terrifyingly to earth. Amy Wright (Noises Off, Mrs. Klein, The Accidental Tourist) is the Narrator= . Adira Amram, making her professional NYC stage debut, is young Joyce. And John Ventimiglia (The Sopranos), in an uncanny portrayal, is Jack Kerouac. Bringing the era vividly to life is legendary composer and Kerouac collaborator David Amram, who will be performing his original, multi-instrumental score live at all performances through June 1st (afterwards, his score will be presented by musicians hand picked by Mr. Amram.) Author Joyce Johnson is the author of the novels Come Join The Dance, Bad Connections & In The Night Caf=E9, the award winning memoir Minor Characters, and an acclaimed non-fiction account of the Steinberg murder case, What Lis= a Knew. A new memoir, Missing Men, will be released next spring. Director Tony Torn is co-artistic director of Sanctuary Theater Workshop. Recent directorial credits include Lee Ann Brown=92s song cycle The 13th Sunday in Ordinary Time, Chay Costello=92s Pandora=92s Box of Sweets, Juliana Francis=92 The Baddest Natashas and Box, and J.M. Synge=92s In the Shadow of the Glen. As an actor, he has worked extensively with directors Richard Foreman and Reza Abdoh, and recently played the title role in Shakespeare=92s Titus Andronicus at the dietheater Kunstlerhaus in Vienna, Austria. The play is produced by Emmy and Obie award winning actor/director Rip Torn= , for Sanctuary Theater Workshop. Hosting the production is Bob Holman=92s Bowery Poetry Club, an acclaimed new venue for poetry, theater and music in lower Manhattan. For reservations and information call the Club at 212-614-0505, or book tickets on-line at www.bowerypoetry.com *************************************************************** Lee Ann Brown PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10003 646.734.4157 LA@tenderbuttons.net ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 07:48:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Craig Dworkin Subject: New Titles From Eclipse In-Reply-To: <200305150411.h4F4Bh7i007677@Princeton.EDU> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit New titles from Eclipse All free and on-line at www.princeton.edu/eclipse EL EGG: Gregg Biglieri's philosophical poem and poetic essay on Hegel, the name, consumption, and writing. POEMAS DE UN JOVEN QUE NO SABE INGES: Joaquin Passos' extraordinary book of "Poems by a Young Man Who Does Not Speak English" -- all written in Passos' idiosyncratic and de-skilled English. EXTREMITIES: Rae Armantrout's 1978 classic. ON THE CORNER TO OFF THE CORNER: Tina Darragh's document of Language poetry at its prime. POLAROID and QUARTZ HEARTS: bringing the collection of early Clark Coolidge books to nearly a dozen. ARAM SAROYAN and PAGES: two commercial press classics by Aram Saroyan, including the only book of poetry read in its entirety on the 6 o'clock news. Enjoy, ::Craig Dworkin, Editor www.princeton.edu/eclipse ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:25:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Kiosk 2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed just to put my two cents in.... I got the new issue yesterday and--once having finally settled down with it--was up till about 2am... It moves really well, the arrangement--and range--of work helped drawn me in. Working my way through some of the poems which I might not have been completely on board with was always rewarding as the next piece would somehow twist what I'd just read... Anyway, there are only 400 copies of this journal ( which you really gotta respect...a poet at a recent conference talked a little about the value of self-imposed scarcity...I like that..as a solution to the endless piles of media...) Oh and one of Rodrigo Toscano's poems in here works great if yr neighbor playin' hip-hop kinda loud while yr tryin' to read on the back porch...I mean it goes really well w/ the beats! PS: Stevens and Palmer throwdown here: http://humanverb.blogspot.com/ _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:30:33 -0600 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@colorado.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Wright Organization: University of Colorado Subject: Pritchett, Green read in Boulder May 16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Left Hand Reading Series presents: PATRICK PRITCHETT & JEREMY GREEN 8:00 PM FRIDAY MAY 16 at the Left Hand Bookstore (1200 Pearl St. #10) in Boulder, CO. Jeremy Green grew up in England and moved to the United States in 1995. He has lived in Colorado since 1998 and currently teaches modern and contemporary American literature at CU-Boulder. Poems published in _100 Days_ (the anti-Bush anthology) and the web zine _For Immediate Release_ (April, 2002). Patrick Pritchett is the author of Reside and Burn: Doxology for Joan of Arc. He is a contributing editor for Facture and has taught at Naropa's Summer Writing Program. For more information call: (303) 443-3685 The Left Hand Reading Series is an independent series presenting readings of original literary works by emerging and established writers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Laura E. Wright Serials Cataloging Dept., Norlin Library (303) 492-3923 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:38:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Clinefelter Subject: Re: Printed Matter In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This wouldn't be practical for a long book, but for a book with short texts, one can use a manual typewriter and, if you want a good tactile quality, vellum paper (the Clearprint and Bienfang brands work well). I used this idea for WHITEWALL OF SOUND number 16 (1996)- I wanted to do an issue that got away from the computer and the photocopier. I came up with 8 different short texts; each page had a single word typed on it. The vellum pages were interleaved with pages cut from a varity of sources (LIFE magazine, text books, machinery catalogues, sheets of blueprints, etc.) Overall, the idea worked well, as the text on the vellum "floats" above and interacts with the texts and images on the pages from the books and magazines. Jim Clinefelter editor, Whitewall of Sound and Zwirn magazines --- MWP wrote: > Thanks all of you for all the input! My own idea > (never tested to see if it > would work) is that I create a series of copper > photoetching plates from the > laser-printed pages, and then make the print run > myself. That way I can > control the depth of the embossing and also get > different shades on the > lettering without having to do multiple ink runs. I > will look into this > polymer process, though. > > The reasons for me not to do straight > hand-typesetting are many. First > because I don't know how and don't really want to > learn, and second because > the computer can do things with text that are way > too difficult to do by > hand. Also, I want to combine a semi-homemade look > with an ultramodern look > so that the two sides get to play off of each other, > in the same way that > the materiality -- tactility? -- of the embossing > process and the > immateriality of the computerized stage of the > process are messed with and > brought into a not quite perfect, but hopefully > still beautiful, marriage of > convenience. (Of course, I am planning to have the > textual content itself be > partly a reference to all of this and thus achieve > an integration of form, > content and medium.) > > > m __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:42:48 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: derek beaulieu Subject: Re: Printed Matter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit all; in the past i was looking for a handcarved look for text, and undertook to handcarve in linoleum an entire age of text - the idea was eventiually trimmed to consist of justthe last 5 lines of ulysses (in abt 1/2" tall letters) carved into a single piece of lino and then printed from that original plate. extremely labour intensive, but it looks good - i wouldnt recommend it tho, as fixing any mistakes is pretty much impossible... derek derek beaulieu c/o housepress apt 205, 321 10th st NW calgary alberta canada t2n 1v7 403-234-0336 derek@housepress.ca ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Clinefelter" To: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [POETICS] Printed Matter > This wouldn't be practical for a long book, but for a > book with short texts, one can use a manual typewriter > and, if you want a good tactile quality, vellum paper > (the Clearprint and Bienfang brands work well). I used > this idea for WHITEWALL OF SOUND number 16 (1996)- I > wanted to do an issue that got away from the computer > and the photocopier. I came up with 8 different short > texts; each page had a single word typed on it. The > vellum pages were interleaved with pages cut from a > varity of sources (LIFE magazine, text books, > machinery catalogues, sheets of blueprints, etc.) > Overall, the idea worked well, as the text on the > vellum "floats" above and interacts with the texts and > images on the pages from the books and magazines. > Jim Clinefelter > editor, Whitewall of Sound and Zwirn magazines > > > --- MWP wrote: > > Thanks all of you for all the input! My own idea > > (never tested to see if it > > would work) is that I create a series of copper > > photoetching plates from the > > laser-printed pages, and then make the print run > > myself. That way I can > > control the depth of the embossing and also get > > different shades on the > > lettering without having to do multiple ink runs. I > > will look into this > > polymer process, though. > > > > The reasons for me not to do straight > > hand-typesetting are many. First > > because I don't know how and don't really want to > > learn, and second because > > the computer can do things with text that are way > > too difficult to do by > > hand. Also, I want to combine a semi-homemade look > > with an ultramodern look > > so that the two sides get to play off of each other, > > in the same way that > > the materiality -- tactility? -- of the embossing > > process and the > > immateriality of the computerized stage of the > > process are messed with and > > brought into a not quite perfect, but hopefully > > still beautiful, marriage of > > convenience. (Of course, I am planning to have the > > textual content itself be > > partly a reference to all of this and thus achieve > > an integration of form, > > content and medium.) > > > > > > m > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:42:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: Cop Makes Midnight Raid of Teacher's Classroom MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Maria: Although I agree with Treece's views, I do think his way of expressing it is inappropriate for a teacher who is trying to get his students to think for themselves. I say this with regret, as ignorance of what's happening to this country abounds, partly because our education system is failing to teach children the responsibilities of living in a democracy. Civics is not about saluting the flag, but questioning why it's being saluted. Good teachers know this, and, like Treece, are frustrated because they are talking into the prevailing wind, which supports the right-wing, and only flutters the feathers of the left. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Damon" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 2:57 PM Subject: Fwd: Cop Makes Midnight Raid of Teacher's Classroom > > > >Published on Saturday, May 10, 2003 > >by The Progressive > > > > > >McCarthyism Watch > >Cop Makes Midnight Raid of Teacher's Classroom > > > >by Matthew Rothschild > > > > > >Tom Treece gives a course called "Public Issues" at > >Spaulding High School in Barre, Vermont. Right now, > >he's embroiled in a public issue himself, after a > >local police officer entered his classroom under > >peculiar circumstances on April 9 to take photographs > >of student artwork. > > > >The uniformed police officer, John Mott, went into the > >class at 1:30 in the morning. He told the Times Argus, > >which broke the story on May 5, that "he entered the > >school through an unlocked maintenance door." The > >school superintendent, Dorothy Anderson, says he > >banged on the front door of the school and got the > >custodian to let him in. > > > >In any event, he convinced the custodian to unlock the > >door to Treece's classroom, and he took a picture of a > >student project that showed President Bush with duct > >tape over his mouth, and the words: "Put your duct > >tape to good use. Shut your mouth." > > > >Treece told me this project was part of an assignment > >for a unit he was teaching on Iraq. It had three > >parts. The first part was to participate in a debate > >on whether to invade Iraq. The second was to write a > >paper defending your perspective on the issue. And the > >third was to make a poster illustrating your point of > >view. Six of his students put together the offending > >poster. > > > >Mott, who did not return several calls from me, told > >the Times Argus, "I wanted everybody else to see what > >was in that room." The paper said the students' > >project "offended him as an American and a retired > >military man." He told the paper, "Having spent 30 > >years in uniform, I was insulted. I'm just taking a > >stand on what happens in that classroom as a resident > >and a voter and a taxpayer in the community." > > > >Mott, incidentally, used to work at Spaulding High as > >the JROTC officer. > > > >Superintendent Anderson was not happy that Mott > >entered the school during off-hours to further his own > >political agenda. > > > >"I find this behavior, at the very least, in violation > >of our policy for visitors at the school," she wrote > >Police Chief Michael Stevens on April 16. "I also find > >it disturbing that a police officer would wear his > >uniform under such circumstances, thereby intimidating > >our employee into letting him in the building at a > >very unusual hour. I question the intent of his visit. > >Why could he not have come during regular school > >hours? Please look into this matter and determine if > >any ethical or legal guidelines were breached." > > > >According to Anderson, the police chief told her "he > >was going to handle it administratively." Chief > >Stevens did not return several phone calls from The > >Progressive. > > > >On his radio show, Rush Limbaugh called Mott a hero > >and posted the students' artwork on the Limbaugh web > >page. > > > >Anderson is not happy about that. "These kids didn't > >turn these projects in with any understanding that > >they would end up on Rush Limbaugh," she said. "Their > >parents feel very violated and angry." > > > >According to the Times Argus, Mott at least initially > >"refused orders from Barre Town Police Chief Michael > >Stevens and Town Manager Carl Rogers to supply school > >officials with copies of the photographs." > > > >Anderson says she does not want the police department > >to pursue charges against Mott. > > > >"There's a huge bonfire here already burning," she > >says. "I don't want to throw gasoline on it." > > > >The student artwork is just part of the bonfire. > > > >Treece got heat for something he himself posted about > >the Iraq War, and both controversies have become > >embroiled in the local school budget that is up for a > >vote. > > > >"After 9/11 we put up this dialogue board, where > >teachers and students are allowed to put up their > >written opinions on various issues," explains > >Anderson. > > > >The postings had to be signed and dated, and could not > >be vulgar, Anderson says. > > > >Treece used the board, as did other teachers, as well > >as students, some of whom wrote, "Love it or leave > >it," he says. "In March, a couple of teachers had up a > >picture of George Bush, with a question, 'Are we > >headed for tyranny?' Another question was, 'Should we > >impeach him?' The following day, one teacher posted a > >set of impeachment articles that had been circulating > >on the web, and I posted another," Treece recalls. > >"Two days after that, I posted a little notecard-sized > >paper that said, 'All hail the idiot boy king,' That > >started the whole fury." > > > >Two residents, Paul and Norma Malone, who have founded > >a group called Citizens Advocating Responsible > >Education, wrote a letter to the Times Argus that was > >published on March 28. > > > >"It is unrealistic to expect that current world events > >would not be a topic of discussion among students or > >faculty," they wrote. "But it is quite another matter > >for a teacher to use taxpayer dollars (his salary, the > >school facility, and related resources) to proselytize > >his leftwing political rhetoric and anti-establishment > >rhetoric. Of particular concern is the lack of respect > >shown in this reference to the President of the United > >States as 'the idiot boy king.' We would advise the > >board and the administration to examine Mr. Treece's > >teaching practices and course materials. We would > >encourage parents and members of the community to > >acquaint themselves with these current activities of > >concern at SHS." > > > >Anderson says she asked Treece to take the "idiot boy > >king" note down. "It was in bad taste, it was strongly > >worded, and it may discourage his students from > >offering an opposite viewpoint," she says. Treece > >complied. > > > >That did not mollify some local residents. > > > >At a school board meeting on April 7, "about three > >dozen residents" came "to confront the school board > >about a bulletin board they say has been abused by > >faculty promoting an anti-American agenda," the Times > >Argus reported. They also objected to bumper stickers > >Treece had on his door that said, "Impeach Bush," and, > >"Vermonters for a Bush/Cheney Regime Change." > > > >Treece says that some of these residents have been > >calling for his head. "Fire Treece, and we'll pass the > >budget" is a comment he says people have made. > > > >(The citizens of Barre must pass a school budget every > >year. The first budget failed to pass in March. The > >next vote is May 13.) > > > >Treece says a flier was circulating in town with his > >yearbook picture on it, along with a copy of his > >"Impeach Bush" sticker, and the words, "We cannot > >allow this kind of stuff to happen in our schools. > >Overturn the budget on May 13." > > > >Anderson defends Treece's teaching practices. "In the > >course of his teaching, he does present both sides and > >gives resources on both sides," she says. > > > >But she is pursuing administrative action against him. > > > > > >"I can't teach that class anymore," Treece says. After > >this year, "they've removed me from the class." > >According to Treece, the administration told him, "We > >feel that Treece is a lightning rod, and his teaching > >that course would be a disruption to the orderly > >educational process we'd like to see restored at > >Spaulding." > > > >Treece is "very upset" about losing this class. "This > >is purely a political move on their part," he says. > > > >The controversy has taken a toll on him. > > > >"My reputation has been spoiled," he says. "I haven't > >got a lot of rest in the last month." > > > >Copyright © 2003 The Progressive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Outside of a dog a book is a man's best friend. > >Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. > > (Groucho Marx) > > > -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:45:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mIEKAL aND Subject: Re: Printed Matter In-Reply-To: <005901c31af8$a45807b0$bcc2ba89@housepress> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there's something very sexy about handcarving the entire age of text. that or your patience is methusalian. On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 10:42 AM, derek beaulieu wrote: > all; > in the past i was looking for a handcarved look for text, and > undertook to > handcarve in linoleum an entire age of text - ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:18:40 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For Bill Austin and others, I'm still interested in this language topic as it's something I've never really considered, but want to take it in a Darwinian direction and see where it goes. Life on the planet is about four billion years old. It's only the last two hundred thousand years that we've had homo sapiens. Before that there's some kind of missing link -- our closest ancestor I believe is the chimpanzee -- we share 97% of the same DNA -- and the genetic split with the chimp was four and a half million years ago. I don't know what I'm saying yet so be patient as I fumble my way in the dark. In graduate school there was a great conference called the Social Bond, organized by Mikkel Borch-Jacobsen. Derrida was supposed to come, but he refused to be on the same bill with Rene Girard, or at least that was the rumor. Girard is another heavy-weight in critical theory circles but he's very different -- he's Catholic -- and his dad ran the Museum of the Popes in Avignon. He was a big wheel at Stanford for decades. Brilliant guy, with intelligent disciples. Eric Gans, one of these disciples, gave a talk about the origin of language in the formation of the earliest social bond. That is, what Gans said is that language began when a tribe of prehistoric people were eating a mastodon. When they realized there wasn't going to be enough to go around, they began to whisper, and to form alliances. This is where he speculates that language began -- in a dark plot to sequester calories. Gans, like his mentor Girard, assumes that there isn't enough to go around, and that therefore an alliance is made, and those who are in on it scapegoat the others, and say they are evil and greedy, and kill them, and then they get to eat the rest of the mastodon in peace and plenty. Raimonda Modiano, a brilliant Kantian Coleridge scholar from Romania, objected. She said she felt the origin of language could just as easily have been founded with an exchange of positive critiques. In other words, one tribesman would turn to the other and rub his stomach and say, "Mmmm. Good." Kind of like the Critique of Judgment in Kant, or some kind of aesthetic origin to language. The question then is WHY DOES LANGUAGE BEGIN? Certainly there is a prehistory to language, since as far as we know we are the only animals to use language. Some simians can be taught to use it, but it isn't natural to them. Dolphins do a lot of verbal chatter but nobody's sure if it's jibber jabber or not. We use language. For what? I'm aware that this poetics discussion board was put together by poets from the LANGUAGE group, but I'm not sure what percentage of the people on the list remain attached to that philosophy, or even how that thought has mutated from its early days. My impression is that this school was largely Marxist. It seems to me that a Marxist would see the beginning of language in what Deleuze called "order-words." In other words language is used by the more powerful to boss around the less. So they could say something like in the mastodon scenario, "Get me nice piece of mastodon, slave." And have it be carried out. So there is a kind of suspicion of language within LANGUAGE (I can't be bothered to put in the equal signs). Schopenhauerians, as an aside (this is beginning to be fun for me, as I see my ideas falling into place even though I don't yet know where they are going), posit that at the heart of humanity is a monstrous will that urges us to have sex and kill (my students love this guy and think he's right) but that language is a way to cover this up. That is, we are all about sex and murder but forks, knives, and polite dinner conversation are a way to cover this up. Beats me what's so. The first symbol that we have is the Wallendorf Venus, and then the cave paintings at Lascaux -- only 30,000 years old. We don't know what they are about. From a Darwinian perspective, it seems to me that Marxists have a solid point about alliances of the powerful, and wanting to create a counter-alliance of the weaker members to form unions. This has only been worked out in the last hundred years. What remains to be seen is whether we can form alliances without wars, without scapegoats, and whether language can have a unifying function within aesthetics, or whether it is only a tool of power, used for order-words. I think Deleuze wants to break down order-words, commands, and this would be in line with what I see LANGUAGE as doing (stop me if I'm way off here) by analyzing and being suspicious of the imperialistic element in language. This would assume that language is almost always evil. But yet I note in Bernstein's more recent poems at least a turn toward humor. Humor implies friendship (there can be savage cruel humor, but the kind of humor I see in his poetry is friendly and even aesthetic in character). I would love to see the origin of language in humor. Humor has its bizarre implications of forming a community as well. And it's something again that we don't see in animals except again maybe in the playfulness of dolphins. Well, certainly insects don't have humor. Worms don't have it. I don't even think birds have it (although parrots can be funny, I don't think they know they are being funny). So maybe humor begins with the afterdinner entertainment after the mastodon has been eaten with somebody cracking the others up or something. I don't know -- I would like to think that somehow humor and beauty have a place in language, and are even at the origins of it, but perhaps it's too optimistic. Keats' nightingale is expressing rather sad emotions according to the poem. So perhaps at least we can say that animals do have emotional expression. Darwin said that they did. And I think he does believe that they can communicate those emotions. Sorry for the long post. Obviously language fits in with evolution, as it comes only later in it, and it has allowed us to triumph as a species. I wanted to give a long view of it, and put it into a wider perspective, and ask what you think is its origin. There's a little more after I quote you. > I've > always thought of Keats' "Ode to A Nightingale" as forward looking. Aside > from the influence of his inebriated state, Keat's fleeting epiphany is > ultimately created and contained by the poem itself, by language. -- I didn't quite understand what it looks forward to. Is this a utopian epiphany that you see in the poem, or is it religious? Keats mentions that the bird was not born for death! Does he think the bird is going to heaven? I wasn't sure if this is what you were talking about. Also, Ruth is mentioned at the end of the poem, giving it an almost gnostic context of all of humanity and even animals stuck in the wrong place. I found this weird as I reread it. Birds are genetically dinosaurs. Keats didn't know that, and the Romantics keep using them as symbols of soul. Somehow I prefer humor over the complaint of the nightingale, and humanity to dinosaurs. I like all the religious groups that use humor -- the Buddhists, the Sufis, and so on. I liked the sixties radicals when they were funny -- not just Lenny Bruce, but also Leary, and the funny poets are the ones I back which is why I love Corso. Even Charles Olson can be funny. I'm hoping that's the direction of evolution. I can't bear zealotry or too much piety. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 11:37:18 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: J Gallaher Organization: University of Central Arkansas Subject: Mary Rueffle Contact Info? In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20030306104552.00afb610@pop3.zipworld.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT As the sign says . . . Thank you, John Gallaher ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:08:43 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Wieja Subject: Re: Cop Makes Midnight Raid of Teacher's Classroom Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed sigh i just can't resist adding my two cents in here. this is actually my hometown where the cop conducted his 1:30 a.m. inspection. it's strange...i live in southern china now, so i followed the whole thing on the local newspaper's website. i also know many of the people involved, and my mother happens to be the editor of another paper in the area. mr. weishaus- your post was very thoughtfully written but with all due respect, you aren't really in a position to pass judgement on Mr. Treece's teaching methodology based on this article. His posting of the "idiot boy king" sign is actually a very insignificant aspect of this whole bruhaha...his detractors are very blatantly calling for his head not because of a stupid little sign, but because of his professed politics. And to be sure , Mr. Treece has never shied away from expressing his own political views, both in and outside of his class. But what his detractors can't see, or won't see, is that, in the very best tradition of Confuscious, Mr. Treece is a teacher by example- by passionately and intelligently articulating his own political orientation, he challenges his students to do the same. But of course, some students are not up to that kind of challenge, and some people have complained that certain political viewpoints are stifled in his class. But for every one of those complaints, there has been a current or former student who has stepped forward and essentially made the point that I just did. Incidentally, their school budget was just defeated yesterday, for the second time. A vocal group threatened to defeat the budget as a protest against Mr. Treece. It is difficult to say if they were able to make good on that threat...these are tough economic times and voters across the country are shooting down school budgets. Also incidentally, this is the same town that made national headlines last month because of the national guardswoman who made never-substantiated(to this day) allegations that she was harrassed and had stones thrown at her by local high school students. we're a real hotbed of radicalism, or something. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:17:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: some help with Zukofsky's A Test of Poetry Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Does anyone know of the existence of any papers/essays which focus on the terms for consideration in Zukofsky's A Test of Poetry? thanks, noah _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:21:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Solana D'Lamant Subject: Re: Mary Rueffle Contact Info? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mayr Rueffle can probably be reached through Vermont College in Montpilier Solana d'Lamant ----- Original Message ----- From: "J Gallaher" To: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 12:37 PM Subject: Mary Rueffle Contact Info? > As the sign says . . . > > Thank you, > John Gallaher > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:11:55 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: CIRCULARS -- last 100 stories Comments: To: bstefans@arras.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.arras.net/circulars/ Circulars is going into hibernation mode for the summer, possibly forever, on May 31. It will stay online as a resource of poetry, art, statements, opinions, wtfs and news stories for future "archeologists of meaning." New stories will still be posted from time to time, but the new homepage will primarily be an index of the more than 450 items posted in the past 4 months. Thanks to all of the contributors, commenters and readers. There's still enough bad news to go around, but the intensity of the dissent, at least online, has slackened -- time to try something different. *** For reasons I won't explain - my own technical limitations, frankly - the links are above the stories, not below them: http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000637.html myfreecursors.com: Patriotic Cursors http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000635.html NYTimes: Texas' Republicans Fume; Democrats Remain AWOL http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000634.html Charles Bernstein: The Rumsfeld Tablet http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000633.html moveon.org: Call Washington -- Who gains from the tax & budget cuts? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000632.html bushwarsblog.com: The Bombing Attacks in Saudi Arabia http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000631.html Globe and Mail: Revolution by e-mail? Tyrants aren't quiverin http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000630.html nothingness.org: May 68 Picturebooks http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000629.html George McGovern: A More Constructive Internationalism http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000628.html sf.indymedia: Antiwar Movement Returns to Oakland Docks to Picket Corporate Invaders & Lawless Cops http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000627.html Additional Korea Links http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000626.html Brian Kim Stefans: n epic http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000625.html Rahul Mahajan: Don't Lift the Sanctions Yet http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000624.html rabble.ca: Weapons of Mass Destruction in Montreal http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000623.html Washington Post: Frustrated, U.S. Arms Team to Leave Iraq; Task Force Unable To Find Any Weapons http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000621.html www.moveon.org: Media Issues Petition http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000619.html Secret McCarthy papers released (available for download) http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000618.html Circulars: New Archives Page http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000617.html Salam Pax Returns http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000616.html The Nation: Top Gun at Job Destruction http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000614.html Question of the Day: Is Shizzolatin' Racist? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000613.html Hugh MacDiarmid: For Daniel Cohn-Bendit http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000612.html The Command Post http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000611.html Guardian UK: Firm in Florida Election Fiasco Earns Millions from Files on Foreigners http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000609.html Sunday Herald: "US: 'Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction'" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000608.html W's Victory Speech: Gangsta Version http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000607.html Korea News & Information Sites http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000606.html Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Constituents of a Theory of the Media http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000604.html U.S. Hires Christian Extremists to Produce Arabic News http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000603.html May 31: A United for Peace & Justice National Teach-in on Iraq, Preemptive War and Democracy http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000602.html Cyberspace and the Lonely Crowd http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000601.html Q&A: Janeane Garofalo Won't Back Down http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000600.html bushwarsblog.com http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000599.html Gothic News Service: Astonishing Art Work Stops Traffic at Piccadilly Circus http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000598.html Garner: Americans Should Beat Chests with Pride http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000597.html Ashleigh Banfield: On Embedded Journalism http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000596.html Boston Globe: Memory and Moral Awareness in Korea http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000595.html Impeach Bush French Fries http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000594.html BILL WEINBERG: BEWARE BUSH'S BOOMERANG http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000593.html The Independent: US/UK War Lies Reprise http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000592.html Commondreams.org: Whistling Dixie http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000591.html Shufu Theater: Interview -- Iraq http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000590.html Proud to Kill an American http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000589.html nothing but iraq: a reading of modern iraqi poetry http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000588.html Alternet: Patriot Raid http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000587.html PeaceWilliamsburg Presents "Relish Democracy" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000586.html United for Peace and Justice Coalition: Chicago Conference, June 6-8 http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000585.html In Jesus's Name: Franklin Graham's Christian Empire http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000583.html whitehouse.org: The War In Iraq Concluded, President Bush Proudly Honors The First-Ever Recipients Of The "Civilian Warmonger Medal Of Armchair Valor" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000582.html indymedia.org: Gruesome French Ads Depict Dead Journalists http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000581.html Alternet: Cool Commodities http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000580.html Shufu Theater: Interview with a Civilian http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000579.html Homeland Security Rules http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000578.html United for Peace: What's Next for Our Movement? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000577.html MoveOn: "We'll throw out Bush and the Republicans using every means available" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000575.html Gothic News Service: Easter Morning at the SUV, Solar and Oak Grove http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000574.html Onion: New Fox Reality Show To Determine Ruler Of Iraq http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000573.html Burger King, Pizza Hut Open Iraq Locations http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000572.html Washington Post: Municipalities Defy Patriot Act http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000571.html Children held at Camp Xray, US admits http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000570.html Nina Simone: "I Just Sing to Know That I'm Alive" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000567.html BBC/Guardian: Unanswered Questions http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000566.html Guardian: Israel Wants Iraqi Oil http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000565.html Tom Tomorrow On Iraq Reconstruction http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000564.html Revolution Is Not An AOL Keyword* http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000563.html Guardian: Labour MPs Turn Up The Heat On Blair http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000562.html Wired: Pacifist Programmers = No Grants For Free Software http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000561.html Independent: Blix Sets Stage For Return of UN Inspectors To Iraq http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000560.html BBC Reporter Blog Wraps Up http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000559.html Le Monde Diplomatique: No War For Whose Oil? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000558.html CNN: A Dry Run For Cheney's Obituary http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000557.html Who Really Saved Private Lynch? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000556.html Embedded Photographer: "I Saw Marines Kill Civilians" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000555.html Tim Robbins Speech to NAtional Press Club http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000554.html OPEN LETTER TO POETS: SHAME ON US, DESTROYERS OF CIVILIZATION http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000553.html Poets for Peace: Reading Friday April 25th http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000552.html Gothic News: Sumerian Harp Ritual On Washington Mall http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000551.html New York Times: The "Fox" Effect http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000550.html POLI SCI: political science writings of Language poet Bruce Andrews http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000549.html In Fraud We Trust (image map dollar) http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000548.html Onion: The Search for Weapons of Mass Destruction http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000547.html Did CNN Turn Up Boos During Michael Moore's Speech? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000546.html Tom Raworth: Listen Up http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000545.html Already Fucked Up http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000544.html Already marked down http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000543.html Time Disappears Bush Sr. Article Against War With Iraq http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000541.html gvus.org: Global Vote for U.S. President http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000540.html Allen Ginsberg: Wichita Vortex Sutra (last part) http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000539.html The Progressive: The Peace Candidate http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000538.html Robert Fisk: Library Books, Letters and Priceless Documents are Set Ablaze in Final Chapter of the Sacking of Baghdad http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000536.html ZNet: Noam Chomsky Interviewed http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000535.html Dagens Nyheter: US Troops Initiated Plundering http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000532.html Student poets victimised for anti-war stance http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000531.html Gwynne Dyer: Ignorant Armies http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000529.html Reverend Billy's Peace Revival And Tax Revolt! http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000528.html SF Chronicle: A Permanent Patriot Act? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000527.html NY Times: Conquest and Neglect http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000526.html Iraqi Regime Playing Cards http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000525.html The Triumph of Corporate Monoculture http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000523.html Voices in the Wilderness/Iraq peace team: Dispatch from Baghdad http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000522.html Staged "Liberation" media event? ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:20:19 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: jason christie Subject: Re: Printed Matter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit which are the last five lines of ulysses... ? (sorry... silly little joke...) jc ----- Original Message ----- From: "derek beaulieu" To: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:42 AM Subject: Re: Printed Matter > all; > in the past i was looking for a handcarved look for text, and undertook to > handcarve in linoleum an entire age of text - the idea was eventiually > trimmed to consist of justthe last 5 lines of ulysses (in abt 1/2" tall > letters) carved into a single piece of lino and then printed from that > original plate. extremely labour intensive, but it looks good - i wouldnt > recommend it tho, as fixing any mistakes is pretty much impossible... > derek > > derek beaulieu > c/o housepress > apt 205, 321 10th st NW > calgary alberta > canada t2n 1v7 > 403-234-0336 > derek@housepress.ca > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Clinefelter" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:38 AM > Subject: Re: [POETICS] Printed Matter > > > > This wouldn't be practical for a long book, but for a > > book with short texts, one can use a manual typewriter > > and, if you want a good tactile quality, vellum paper > > (the Clearprint and Bienfang brands work well). I used > > this idea for WHITEWALL OF SOUND number 16 (1996)- I > > wanted to do an issue that got away from the computer > > and the photocopier. I came up with 8 different short > > texts; each page had a single word typed on it. The > > vellum pages were interleaved with pages cut from a > > varity of sources (LIFE magazine, text books, > > machinery catalogues, sheets of blueprints, etc.) > > Overall, the idea worked well, as the text on the > > vellum "floats" above and interacts with the texts and > > images on the pages from the books and magazines. > > Jim Clinefelter > > editor, Whitewall of Sound and Zwirn magazines > > > > > > --- MWP wrote: > > > Thanks all of you for all the input! My own idea > > > (never tested to see if it > > > would work) is that I create a series of copper > > > photoetching plates from the > > > laser-printed pages, and then make the print run > > > myself. That way I can > > > control the depth of the embossing and also get > > > different shades on the > > > lettering without having to do multiple ink runs. I > > > will look into this > > > polymer process, though. > > > > > > The reasons for me not to do straight > > > hand-typesetting are many. First > > > because I don't know how and don't really want to > > > learn, and second because > > > the computer can do things with text that are way > > > too difficult to do by > > > hand. Also, I want to combine a semi-homemade look > > > with an ultramodern look > > > so that the two sides get to play off of each other, > > > in the same way that > > > the materiality -- tactility? -- of the embossing > > > process and the > > > immateriality of the computerized stage of the > > > process are messed with and > > > brought into a not quite perfect, but hopefully > > > still beautiful, marriage of > > > convenience. (Of course, I am planning to have the > > > textual content itself be > > > partly a reference to all of this and thus achieve > > > an integration of form, > > > content and medium.) > > > > > > > > > m > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > > http://search.yahoo.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:18:20 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: CIRCULARS -- last 100 stories MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.arras.net/circulars/ Circulars is going into hibernation mode for the summer, possibly forever, on May 31. It will stay online as a resource of poetry, art, statements, opinions, wtfs and news stories for future "archeologists of meaning." New stories will still be posted from time to time, but the new homepage will primarily be an index of the more than 450 items posted in the past 4 months. Thanks to all of the contributors, commenters and readers. There's still enough bad news to go around, but the intensity of the dissent, at least online, has slackened -- time to try something different. *** For reasons I won't explain - my own technical limitations, frankly - the links are above the stories, not below them: http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000637.html myfreecursors.com: Patriotic Cursors http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000635.html NYTimes: Texas' Republicans Fume; Democrats Remain AWOL http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000634.html Charles Bernstein: The Rumsfeld Tablet http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000633.html moveon.org: Call Washington -- Who gains from the tax & budget cuts? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000632.html bushwarsblog.com: The Bombing Attacks in Saudi Arabia http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000631.html Globe and Mail: Revolution by e-mail? Tyrants aren't quiverin http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000630.html nothingness.org: May 68 Picturebooks http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000629.html George McGovern: A More Constructive Internationalism http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000628.html sf.indymedia: Antiwar Movement Returns to Oakland Docks to Picket Corporate Invaders & Lawless Cops http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000627.html Additional Korea Links http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000626.html Brian Kim Stefans: n epic http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000625.html Rahul Mahajan: Don't Lift the Sanctions Yet http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000624.html rabble.ca: Weapons of Mass Destruction in Montreal http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000623.html Washington Post: Frustrated, U.S. Arms Team to Leave Iraq; Task Force Unable To Find Any Weapons http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000621.html www.moveon.org: Media Issues Petition http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000619.html Secret McCarthy papers released (available for download) http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000618.html Circulars: New Archives Page http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000617.html Salam Pax Returns http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000616.html The Nation: Top Gun at Job Destruction http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000614.html Question of the Day: Is Shizzolatin' Racist? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000613.html Hugh MacDiarmid: For Daniel Cohn-Bendit http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000612.html The Command Post http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000611.html Guardian UK: Firm in Florida Election Fiasco Earns Millions from Files on Foreigners http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000609.html Sunday Herald: "US: 'Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction'" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000608.html W's Victory Speech: Gangsta Version http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000607.html Korea News & Information Sites http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000606.html Hans Magnus Enzensberger: Constituents of a Theory of the Media http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000604.html U.S. Hires Christian Extremists to Produce Arabic News http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000603.html May 31: A United for Peace & Justice National Teach-in on Iraq, Preemptive War and Democracy http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000602.html Cyberspace and the Lonely Crowd http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000601.html Q&A: Janeane Garofalo Won't Back Down http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000600.html bushwarsblog.com http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000599.html Gothic News Service: Astonishing Art Work Stops Traffic at Piccadilly Circus http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000598.html Garner: Americans Should Beat Chests with Pride http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000597.html Ashleigh Banfield: On Embedded Journalism http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000596.html Boston Globe: Memory and Moral Awareness in Korea http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000595.html Impeach Bush French Fries http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000594.html BILL WEINBERG: BEWARE BUSH'S BOOMERANG http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000593.html The Independent: US/UK War Lies Reprise http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000592.html Commondreams.org: Whistling Dixie http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000591.html Shufu Theater: Interview -- Iraq http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000590.html Proud to Kill an American http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000589.html nothing but iraq: a reading of modern iraqi poetry http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000588.html Alternet: Patriot Raid http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000587.html PeaceWilliamsburg Presents "Relish Democracy" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000586.html United for Peace and Justice Coalition: Chicago Conference, June 6-8 http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000585.html In Jesus's Name: Franklin Graham's Christian Empire http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000583.html whitehouse.org: The War In Iraq Concluded, President Bush Proudly Honors The First-Ever Recipients Of The "Civilian Warmonger Medal Of Armchair Valor" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000582.html indymedia.org: Gruesome French Ads Depict Dead Journalists http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000581.html Alternet: Cool Commodities http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000580.html Shufu Theater: Interview with a Civilian http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000579.html Homeland Security Rules http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000578.html United for Peace: What's Next for Our Movement? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000577.html MoveOn: "We'll throw out Bush and the Republicans using every means available" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000575.html Gothic News Service: Easter Morning at the SUV, Solar and Oak Grove http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000574.html Onion: New Fox Reality Show To Determine Ruler Of Iraq http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000573.html Burger King, Pizza Hut Open Iraq Locations http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000572.html Washington Post: Municipalities Defy Patriot Act http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000571.html Children held at Camp Xray, US admits http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000570.html Nina Simone: "I Just Sing to Know That I'm Alive" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000567.html BBC/Guardian: Unanswered Questions http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000566.html Guardian: Israel Wants Iraqi Oil http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000565.html Tom Tomorrow On Iraq Reconstruction http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000564.html Revolution Is Not An AOL Keyword* http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000563.html Guardian: Labour MPs Turn Up The Heat On Blair http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000562.html Wired: Pacifist Programmers = No Grants For Free Software http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000561.html Independent: Blix Sets Stage For Return of UN Inspectors To Iraq http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000560.html BBC Reporter Blog Wraps Up http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000559.html Le Monde Diplomatique: No War For Whose Oil? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000558.html CNN: A Dry Run For Cheney's Obituary http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000557.html Who Really Saved Private Lynch? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000556.html Embedded Photographer: "I Saw Marines Kill Civilians" http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000555.html Tim Robbins Speech to NAtional Press Club http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000554.html OPEN LETTER TO POETS: SHAME ON US, DESTROYERS OF CIVILIZATION http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000553.html Poets for Peace: Reading Friday April 25th http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000552.html Gothic News: Sumerian Harp Ritual On Washington Mall http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000551.html New York Times: The "Fox" Effect http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000550.html POLI SCI: political science writings of Language poet Bruce Andrews http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000549.html In Fraud We Trust (image map dollar) http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000548.html Onion: The Search for Weapons of Mass Destruction http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000547.html Did CNN Turn Up Boos During Michael Moore's Speech? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000546.html Tom Raworth: Listen Up http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000545.html Already Fucked Up http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000544.html Already marked down http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000543.html Time Disappears Bush Sr. Article Against War With Iraq http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000541.html gvus.org: Global Vote for U.S. President http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000540.html Allen Ginsberg: Wichita Vortex Sutra (last part) http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000539.html The Progressive: The Peace Candidate http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000538.html Robert Fisk: Library Books, Letters and Priceless Documents are Set Ablaze in Final Chapter of the Sacking of Baghdad http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000536.html ZNet: Noam Chomsky Interviewed http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000535.html Dagens Nyheter: US Troops Initiated Plundering http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000532.html Student poets victimised for anti-war stance http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000531.html Gwynne Dyer: Ignorant Armies http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000529.html Reverend Billy's Peace Revival And Tax Revolt! http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000528.html SF Chronicle: A Permanent Patriot Act? http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000527.html NY Times: Conquest and Neglect http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000526.html Iraqi Regime Playing Cards http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000525.html The Triumph of Corporate Monoculture http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000523.html Voices in the Wilderness/Iraq peace team: Dispatch from Baghdad http://www.arras.net/circulars/archives/000522.html Staged "Liberation" media event? ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:38:09 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/15/03 12:28:02 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << > I've > always thought of Keats' "Ode to A Nightingale" as forward looking. Aside > from the influence of his inebriated state, Keat's fleeting epiphany is > ultimately created and contained by the poem itself, by language. -- I didn't quite understand what it looks forward to. Is this a utopian epiphany that you see in the poem, or is it religious? Keats mentions that the bird was not born for death! Does he think the bird is going to heaven? I wasn't sure if this is what you were talking about. Also, Ruth is mentioned at the end of the poem, giving it an almost gnostic context of all of humanity and even animals stuck in the wrong place. I found this weird as I reread it. Birds are genetically dinosaurs. Keats didn't know that, and the Romantics keep using them as symbols of soul. >> Kirby, enjoyed your post! Sorry if my remark seemed vague. I meant only that the epiphany Keats refers to might be the experience of writing (or completing?) the poem, that such intellectual/emotional highs, albeit transitory, are brought into view through language. After all, isn't it Keats' poem that transfigures the bird, that assigns its transcendence. So Keats is forward looking (maybe) in that he assumes this experience within language, and so dips into what language theory will later soak in. Keats' concept of negative capability also prefigures 20th century struggles with the idea of indeterminacy. Differences obtain, certainly. But he's nevertheless on track. As for the origins of language, your guess is as good as mine. Maybe each person you mention has a piece of the action--maybe not. Vico, I think, offered sensation as the starting point. Sounds good. Or not. The human big brain is an obvious factor when it comes to cognition and development. Wish I could do better than merely add my own speculation to that of others, professional or otherwise. One interesting tidbit from contemporary language theory is that origins, w hatever they might have been, are displaced, lost, at the very moment they do their thing, at the moment they are recognized. We cannot know them as transcending the structural field. We can only know them as provisional complexes which always break down into yet more structures. Any identifiable beginning immediately becomes an effect (an expression of multiple structures) and exists within conceptualization, rather than outside or beyond or before it. In this sense, it is the impossibility of our comprehending a self-identical origin which accounts for the concept. Put another way--and more generally--one depends on two for its identity as one. Because there are two, we have the idea of the one, but in fact there is never (for us) only the one. And if two is coextensive with one, it doesn't even make sense to claim that one comes before two. Now what does that do to the idea of origins? Weird, right? I'm not saying there aren't biological/psychological/etc. causes for things, or pre-conditions, or something like that. It's just that we can't know them as biological/psychological anything until language creates such designations. We are always, it seems, at some remove from things as they are, if they are. I'm not at all surprised by the antagonism between Girard and Derrida. Gerard's project was phenomenological. Derrida's critique of Husserl must have given him fits. But I'm guessing here. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:27:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT *** MONDAY MAY 19 [8:00pm] STEPHEN PAUL MILLER AND MARIANNE SHANEEN WEDNESDAY MAY 21 [8:00pm] DAEL ORLANDERSMITH AND WILLIE PERDOMO http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** MONDAY MAY 19 [8:00pm] STEPHEN PAUL MILLER AND MARIANNE SHANEEN Stephen Paul Miller is an associate professor of English at St. John's University. He is the author of The Seventies Now: Culture as Surveillance (Duke University Press, 1999) and two books of poems, That Man Who Ground Moths into Film (New Observations, 1982) and Art Is Boring for the Same Reason We Stayed in Vietnam (Domestic, 1992), as well as co-editor with Terence Diggory of The Scene of My Selves: New Work on New York School Poet= s (the University of Maine in Orono's National Poetry Foundation, 2001). Marianne Shaneen is a fiction writer, poet and filmmaker living in Brooklyn= , NY. Parts of her current novella-prose-poem The Peekabooo Theory were featured in the most recent issue of Snare and An Ornithology of War can be found in the current issue of the Beehive Hypermedia Literary Journal, http://beehive.temporalimage.com. She has a chapbook forthcoming from Detour. Shaneen co-curates the weekly experimental film series at the Rober= t Beck Memorial Cinema in NYC. WEDNESDAY MAY 21 [8:00pm] DAEL ORLANDERSMITH AND WILLIE PERDOMO Dael Orlandersmith is the recepient of an OBIE Award for Beauty=B9s Daughter, which she wrote and starred in at American Place Theatre. Her film and television credits include Hal Hartley=B9s Amateur, an episode of Spin City and the film Get Well Soon with Courtney Cox. Dael has toured extensively with the Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 (now known as Real Live Poetry) throughout th= e US, Europe and Australia. In November 1996, she premiered Monster at New York Theatre Workshop and appeared in Romeo and Juliet at Williamstown. Dae= l has attended Sundance theatre Festival Lab four summers developing new plays. The Gimmick, commissioned by the McCarter Theatre, premiered on thei= r Second Stage on Stage and went on to great acclaim at the Long Wharf Theatr= e and NYTW. Yellowman marks Dael=B9s third production at ACT in Seattle. It was commissioned by and premiered at the McCarter in a co-production with the Wilma and Long Wharf Theatres. She is currently finishing her first novel and is starting work on a new play. Vintage Books recently published a collection of her plays. Dael was a Susan Smith Blackburn Award Finalist in 1999 and is the recipient of a NYFA Grant and The Helen Merrill Emerging Playwrights Award. This year, she was a Pulitzer Prize Award finalist for Yellowman. Willie Perdomo is the author of Where A Nickel Costs A Dime (Norton, 1996) and Postcards of El Barrio (Isla Negra Press, 2002). His work has been included in several anthologies including Poems of New York (Everyman'= s Library Pocket Poets/Knopf, 2002), Bum Rush the Page: A Def Poetry Jam (Three Rivers Press, 2002) and Aloud: An Anthology of Writing from The Nuyorican Poets Caf=E9 (Holt, 1995). His work has appeared in The New York Times Magazine, Bomb, Urban Latino, and other publications. He is the autho= r of Visiting Langston, a picture book illustrated by Bryan Collier (Henry Holt/Books for Young Readers, 2002). He has been featured on several PBS documentaries including Words in Your Face and The United States of Poetry and HBO's Def Poetry Jam. Perdomo is a recipient of the New York Foundation for the Arts Fiction Fellowship 1996 and the NYFA Poetry Fellowship 2001. H= e also co-wrote an episode for the HBO animated series, Spicy City and recorded on Flippin' the Script: Rap Meets Poetry (Mouth Almighty Records/Mercury). ** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:07:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, Your comment about "birds" is interesting. "Bird" is a central image of Sufism, and my guess is that the person you are responding to 9from Delhi) comes from that tradition. I also think "Ode to a Nightingale" is a supreme poem, and it does possess a "forward motion," that of the bird through the forest. "Bird" may be a dead word for the soul in purely 20th century western terms, but do you think the west is the future of the world or the soul exists in only a western language? To me that sounds like a dead idea. Best. Murat In a message dated 5/15/03 2:43:49 PM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: >Also, Ruth is mentioned >at >the end of the poem, giving it an almost gnostic context of all of humanity >and >even animals stuck in the wrong place. I found this weird as I reread >it. >Birds >are genetically dinosaurs. Keats didn't know that, and the Romantics keep >using >them as symbols of soul. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:36:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard D Carfagna Subject: Olson mag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All I was wondering if anyone has info on an 'Olson Magazine' or' Journal' that appears to have been published in the 70's ? I see it referenced in various essays by Butterick and other authors writing on Olson's work. Thanks, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 15:32:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Re: Olson mag In-Reply-To: <20030515.183631.-277543.0.sinfoniapress@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think it's the proceedings of the Charles Olson Society, or some similar name. The Poetry/Rare Books Collection at Buffalo has a full run, if I remember correctly. Taylor On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 03:36 PM, Richard D Carfagna wrote: > Hi All > I was wondering if anyone has info > on an 'Olson Magazine' or' Journal' > that appears to have been published in the 70's ? > I see it referenced in various essays by Butterick > and other authors writing on Olson's work. > > Thanks, > Ric > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:06:03 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: theory of practice In-Reply-To: <3EC3BDE0.FAB35E6E@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 12:18 PM 5/15/03 -0400, you wrote: >The question then is WHY DOES LANGUAGE BEGIN? I think it's better posed as a "how" question than a "why" question. You'll agree that language depends on the semiotic, i.e. that the possibility of the meaningful utterance is predicated on the possibility of the sign. As for what makes the sign possible, you find it in Aristotle (Prior Analytics, 70a): "That which has something to do with another thing, whether preceding it or following it or occurring at the same time, is a sign [semeion] of that thing's being or having happened." In other words, any datum by which we infer something about the world is a sign; what makes it possible is the fact of its perceptibly "having to do with" what that something. So it's a question of association -- an association that is neither purely "natural" nor "conventional." I don't know what kind of nut goes public with his or her theory on the origin of language, but I think I'm about to. What led me to it is the _Sahibi_ of Ibn Faris (d. 395/1004), where he explains the derivation for the Arabic word meaning "meaning" [al-ma'ana], giving 2 explanations. The first is that al-ma'ana is "the thing one wishes and the goal," the idea being that the meaning of an utterance is located in its speaker's intention. Simply put, it's what the speaker is trying to say. The second explanation goes back to the verb from which al-ma'ana is formed: this is 'ana/ya'ni, defined by Ibn Faris as "making manifest" [al-izhar]. This verb is used of the earth's sending forth vegetation, and of a wineskin which does not hold liquid but sends it dribbling forth. You'll notice that though these are not intentional acts, it still makes sense to call them "expressions," in that something is being sent forth from something else. I think the intentional (i.e. verbal) sense of al-ma'ana is patterned on the second, unintentional sense, and that for the utterance to be understood as a making manifest of emotional content, you need the prior concept of the "expression." It may be that this concept predates vertebrate life, and I don't think you need to go outside of Marxism to explain it. What was Rodney's phrase? "The effort of the world trying to communicate with us." Is this not the pattern for our efforts to communicate with one another? If anyone wants to start a separate semiotics list, please let me join. I worry that the subject may have become tiresome to many on this list. Not to me though! LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:18:37 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory of practice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For Murat Nemet-Nejat, There seems to be a confusion here. I am from Delhi, New York, not Delhi India. The town is misnamed. It is in the Catskill Mountains near Oneonta New York and Woodstock NY. The name is a joke perpetrated by a mapmaker in Albany on the then mayor of this town who seems according to the guidebooks to have acted "like a mahatma." But it was a friendly joke at his expense, done in the early 1800s. I am also responsible for the image of the bird in Romanticism as the notion of the soul, but also linked them to dinosaurs genetically. there's a lot of ways to look at birds -- as symbols, and then you could look at them through the western scientific lense. Sorry for the mix-up. Bill's not responsible for that image -- the Romantics are. I wasn't really criticizing their idea of the soul, but just noting it, and wondering if Bill was seeing hope through a Christian lense. No, he was seeing it through a poetic lense, he said. I'm not a Sufi, but I like to read their stuff, especially the wonderful Nasrudin stories. They are funny stories. I just read in French a funny book by a Sufi psychiatrist named Moussa Nabati who was a student of Emmanuel Levinas. It's called L'Humour-Therapie -- where he explains the Nasrudin stories from within a psychiatric perspective. His explanations are a little flat compared to the jokes themselves. You are probably familiar with these stories. Nasrudin is a kind of mischievous Sufi priest. The humor is a little like The Three Stooges except there is a spiritual dimension. Nasrudin's very important in the Gurdjieff tradition, and I have been trying to do research on comic religious motifs so I've read through Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff cites Nasrudin more than anybody else. I think they are like folk humor, but have a spiritual side to them that you're supposed to contemplate. Here's one I'll quickly translate: "A peasant accosted Nasrudine: 'I have a pain in my eye. What do you think I should do?' 'The other day, I had a toothache. I had it taken out, but do as you like.'" (p. 46) So that's what I meant by Sufi humor. I am not terribly familiar with the tradition, but find it really kind of fun. I've never met an actual Sufi, though. I grew up Lutheran. Part of the reason I'm doing research on religious humor is that I have suffered a lot from the lack of humor in the Lutheran tradition. Kant puts it down, Hegel barely deals with it, Kierkegaard is funny when he isn't trembling, but it is not a major aspect of the Lutheran church. Garrison Keillor is a Lutheran humorist but I don't find him very funny. So I've been researching other traditions. Why should Jews and Sufis have the best comic traditions? If anybody knows other funny religious traditions I would be interested to hear about them. Lutherans tend toward a kind of piety that I find a little stupid, frankly. I especially hate this sentimental image of Christ. I would like him to have been a little funnier. Some theologians claim that he is but they twist the words very far to try and make them funny. Anyway, the shrink's take on the joke above is that too often we ask others with different experiences what we should do, when our experience is individual, and we have to do what seems right to us, not asking any master but ourselves. That sounds right to me, but maybe there is more to it. This book was my intro to Nasrudine. -- Kirby Olson Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > Bill, > > Your comment about "birds" is interesting. "Bird" is a central image of > Sufism, and my guess is that the person you are responding to 9from Delhi) > comes from that tradition. I also think "Ode to a Nightingale" is a supreme > poem, and it does possess a "forward motion," that of the bird through the > forest. > > "Bird" may be a dead word for the soul in purely 20th century western terms, > but do you think the west is the future of the world or the soul exists in > only a western language? To me that sounds like a dead idea. > > Best. > > Murat > > In a message dated 5/15/03 2:43:49 PM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: > > >Also, Ruth is mentioned > >at > >the end of the poem, giving it an almost gnostic context of all of humanity > >and > >even animals stuck in the wrong place. I found this weird as I reread > >it. > >Birds > >are genetically dinosaurs. Keats didn't know that, and the Romantics keep > >using > >them as symbols of soul. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:54:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Re: some help with Zukofsky's A Test of Poetry In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Have you tried Mark Scroggins? At 01:17 PM 5/15/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Does anyone know of the existence of any papers/essays which focus on the >terms for consideration in Zukofsky's A Test of Poetry? > >thanks, >noah > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:16:41 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: Olson mag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" OLSON was published by the Library of the University of Connecticutt As I recall it was started, and finished (after about 10 issues, 1974-) in order to publish material from the Olson archive deposited there after his death. It's a source for Black Mountain material--syllabii, reading lists, etc. drafts of various kinds. From recollection it is exclusively concerned with Olson mss material, rather than interpretative criticism on Olson. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Richard D Carfagna [mailto:sinfoniapress@JUNO.COM] Sent: Friday, 16 May 2003 10:36 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Olson mag Hi All I was wondering if anyone has info on an 'Olson Magazine' or' Journal' that appears to have been published in the 70's ? I see it referenced in various essays by Butterick and other authors writing on Olson's work. Thanks, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 20:27:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Re: Olson mag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, and on my last visit to the archive, the whole run was still = available for a very reasonable price. Rutherford is the one to get in = touch with at the Dodd Research Center = http://www.lib.uconn.edu/DoddCenter/ASC/. The Minutes of the Charles Olson Society are published and edited by = Ralph Maud c/o 1104 Maple Street Vancouver, BC V6J 3R6. Here you find = other archival materials, plus essays, letters, occasional reviews, and = commentary from the editor. =20 Best of Luck - Kyle ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Olson mag OLSON was published by the Library of the University of Connecticutt As I recall it was started, and finished (after about 10 issues, 1974-) in order to publish material from the Olson archive deposited there = after his death. It's a source for Black Mountain material--syllabii, reading lists, etc. drafts of various kinds. From recollection it is exclusively concerned with Olson mss material, rather than interpretative criticism = on Olson. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Richard D Carfagna [mailto:sinfoniapress@JUNO.COM] Sent: Friday, 16 May 2003 10:36 a.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Olson mag Hi All I was wondering if anyone has info on an 'Olson Magazine' or' Journal' that appears to have been published in the 70's ? I see it referenced in various essays by Butterick and other authors writing on Olson's work. Thanks, Ric ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:45:58 -0400 Reply-To: The Constant Critic Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Constant Critic Organization: The Constant Critic Subject: The Constant Critic Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline This summer, use The Critics to help you select your beach reading. And don't forget to let us know what you think of the books, the reviews, the site, by taking advantage of the handy Letters to the Editor feature. Here's some of what you'll find in this quite tardy installment 5 of the Constant Critic (http://www.constantcritic.com) Jordan Davis on Loren Goodman’s Famous Americans: “Disclosure: Loren Goodman’s time at Columbia coincided with mine. While I generally follow. Publishers Weekly’s lead in preferring not to talk about first books of poems, and given that my eyebrows arch automatically when I see other critics praise their friends, I would feel remiss if I failed to alert the reading public to Goodman’s work.” Christine Hume on John D’Agata’s The Next American Essay: “The best anthologies are in the spirit of turning the tourist into a traveler; the worst pander to our tastes for the sentimental (grandmother and New Formalist poems) or sensational (victims and New (American) poems); they satisfy by way of consumerism.” Ray McDaniel on Ai’s Dread: “I am very fond of her Cruelty (1973), I am pleased by the textures of her Killing Floor (1979), there are moments in which her Sin (1986) is compelling. Her Fate (1991), however, is a bit dim; her Greed (1993) gets the best of her, and her new and collected Vice (1999) is more or less what it claims to be. And now her Dread, the title of which nearly prohibits further comment.” -- To unsubscribe from: The Constant Critic, just follow this link: http://www.constantcritic.com/mojo/mojo.cgi?f=u&l=ccritic&e=poetics@listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu&p=10876 Click this link, or copy and paste the address into your browser. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:00:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: women in prison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm attempting to generate a reading list for a poetry writing workshop = with incarcerated women. I'd like to include writing (particularly by = women) that blurs notions of genre- it might not look or read like = 'poetry'.=20 Adult women. Maximum security facility. Variable reading and writing = skills. Not too many readings, but maybe some choice titles. I know the = prison thread weaves its way around from time to time, but any ideas = would be welcome. Please backchannel. Thanks- JS ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 21:06:19 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: the legendary newspaper was merely an elaborate hoax started by Alexander Rankoff, a Romanian prankster Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit RON CHARLES: Beyond Jayson Blair Christian Science Monitor Service The Christian Science Monitor (May 15, 2003 5:24 p.m. EDT) - The scandal over fabricated stories by New York Times reporter Jayson Blair continues to develop. Media critics who called for the resignation of Mr. Blair's senior editors were stunned to learn yesterday that the Times has no senior editors. When reporters from several other New York papers went to the Times' historic headquarters on 43rd Street, they discovered only a Starbucks and a dry cleaner. Apparently, the legendary newspaper was merely an elaborate hoax started by Alexander Rankoff, a Romanian prankster who came to America in 1851. Although the Times once claimed to have 1.2 million subscribers, federal auditors have so far been able to locate only six, all descendants of Mr. Rankoff. A reporter with the New York Post said, "I don't understand how we could have missed this. Sure, there have always been suspicions about the Times, but everybody was always claiming to read it, so it seemed like a real newspaper." A senior editor with the Boston Globe, which was purchased by the New York Times Co. in 1993, reportedly was "alarmed" by news that the Times does not and, in fact, has never existed. "This is a major blow to the homogeneity of the news business," he said, requesting his name not be used. "Without the Times to tell us what to print, papers around the country might panic. We could have an epidemic of editorial independence on our hands." New Yorkers are taking the latest revelation in stride. Indeed, many said they weren't surprised. "A 38-page style section but no comics?" scoffed one cab driver. "Come on!" Leading intellectuals expressed regret at news of the Times' nonexistence and quickly began removing references to the Times from their resumes. "This is another great loss to American culture," said Gore Vidal. "Now, more than ever, people interested in ideas that matter will have to rely on 'Lingua Franca.'" (Calls to Mr. Gore's home to confirm his comments were not returned, leading to speculation that he does not exist.) A statement from The Pulitzer Prize Board, which confessed to having awarded 89 prizes to the Times, said the foundation was considering a number of changes to guard against fraudulent or nonexistent entries in the future. "It's now clear," the statement said, "that we should open all the submission envelopes before awarding Pulitzer Prizes." At a press conference earlier this week, a White House spokesman sounded vindicated: "This administration has always behaved as though the press doesn't exist, and now the American people are starting to see the wisdom of that approach. When they need to know something important, we'll tell them ourselves." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:10:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: the legendary newspaper was merely an elaborate hoax started by Alexander Rankoff, a Romanian prankster MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is this, too, a prank? While I have seen the CSM and their reading rooms (although these don't seem as prevalent as they used to), perhaps it's "all" an elaborate hoax. Consider all of the historic events that some people think were fabricated... Ter ----- Original Message ----- From: "miekal and" To: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 7:06 PM Subject: the legendary newspaper was merely an elaborate hoax started by Alexander Rankoff, a Romanian prankster > RON CHARLES: Beyond Jayson Blair > Christian Science Monitor Service > > > The Christian Science Monitor > (May 15, 2003 5:24 p.m. EDT) - The scandal over fabricated stories by > New York Times reporter Jayson Blair continues to develop. Media > critics who called for the resignation of Mr. Blair's senior editors > were stunned to learn yesterday that the Times has no senior editors. > > When reporters from several other New York papers went to the Times' > historic headquarters on 43rd Street, they discovered only a Starbucks > and a dry cleaner. Apparently, the legendary newspaper was merely an > elaborate hoax started by Alexander Rankoff, a Romanian prankster who > came to America in 1851. > > Although the Times once claimed to have 1.2 million subscribers, > federal auditors have so far been able to locate only six, all > descendants of Mr. Rankoff. > > A reporter with the New York Post said, "I don't understand how we > could have missed this. Sure, there have always been suspicions about > the Times, but everybody was always claiming to read it, so it seemed > like a real newspaper." > > A senior editor with the Boston Globe, which was purchased by the New > York Times Co. in 1993, reportedly was "alarmed" by news that the Times > does not and, in fact, has never existed. "This is a major blow to the > homogeneity of the news business," he said, requesting his name not be > used. "Without the Times to tell us what to print, papers around the > country might panic. We could have an epidemic of editorial > independence on our hands." > > New Yorkers are taking the latest revelation in stride. Indeed, many > said they weren't surprised. "A 38-page style section but no comics?" > scoffed one cab driver. "Come on!" > > Leading intellectuals expressed regret at news of the Times' > nonexistence and quickly began removing references to the Times from > their resumes. > > "This is another great loss to American culture," said Gore Vidal. > "Now, more than ever, people interested in ideas that matter will have > to rely on 'Lingua Franca.'" (Calls to Mr. Gore's home to confirm his > comments were not returned, leading to speculation that he does not > exist.) > > A statement from The Pulitzer Prize Board, which confessed to having > awarded 89 prizes to the Times, said the foundation was considering a > number of changes to guard against fraudulent or nonexistent entries in > the future. "It's now clear," the statement said, "that we should open > all the submission envelopes before awarding Pulitzer Prizes." > > At a press conference earlier this week, a White House spokesman > sounded vindicated: "This administration has always behaved as though > the press doesn't exist, and now the American people are starting to > see the wisdom of that approach. When they need to know something > important, we'll tell them ourselves." ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:21:41 -0400 Reply-To: jmc228@cornell.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joshua Corey Subject: Re: women in prison In-Reply-To: <001201c31b4e$f7bbe0b0$69e096d1@Jane> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Jane. I'm at Emily's now and I don't have your message about the posters and I can't remember what you said. You thought about dropping them off? It's too late for that, I suppose. But I'll check my e-mail in the morning--if there's another way you can get them to me tomorrow, let me know. Josh Quoting Jane Sprague : > I'm attempting to generate a reading list for a poetry writing workshop > with incarcerated women. I'd like to include writing (particularly by > women) that blurs notions of genre- it might not look or read like > 'poetry'. > > Adult women. Maximum security facility. Variable reading and writing > skills. Not too many readings, but maybe some choice titles. I know the > prison thread weaves its way around from time to time, but any ideas > would be welcome. Please backchannel. > > Thanks- > > JS > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:22:43 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Re: New Titles From Eclipse MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All, I had the pleasure of reading part of Gregg's ms. last year, now = revised, and available on Eclipse. I suggest sitting down with a = reliable printer, as it is quite an extensive piece and one that = reciprocates the patience and attention of the reader.=20 Enjoy, and thanks Craig for making this and so many other valuable works = available - Kyle ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Craig Dworkin=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 9:48 AM Subject: New Titles From Eclipse New titles from Eclipse All free and on-line at www.princeton.edu/eclipse EL EGG: Gregg Biglieri's philosophical poem and poetic essay on Hegel, = the name, consumption, and writing. POEMAS DE UN JOVEN QUE NO SABE INGES: Joaquin Passos' extraordinary book = of "Poems by a Young Man Who Does Not Speak English" -- all written in = Passos' idiosyncratic and de-skilled English. EXTREMITIES: Rae Armantrout's 1978 classic. ON THE CORNER TO OFF THE CORNER: Tina Darragh's document of Language = poetry at its prime. POLAROID and QUARTZ HEARTS: bringing the collection of early Clark = Coolidge books to nearly a dozen. ARAM SAROYAN and PAGES: two commercial press classics by Aram Saroyan, including the only book of poetry read in its entirety on the 6 o'clock news. Enjoy, ::Craig Dworkin, Editor www.princeton.edu/eclipse ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 23:32:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Fwd: [narconews] Jayson Blair Cracked the Code: Comment on the NY Times' Crisis Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >May 12, 2003 >Please Distribute Widely > >Dear Colleagues, > >The unprecedented 14,290-word confession in Sunday's New York Times >is just the tip of the iceberg. > >The Times revealed that 27-year-old reporter Jayson Blair fabricated >multiple stories and interviews, plagiarized from other publications >without crediting them (are those who routinely plagiarize from Narco >News paying attention to what can happen? Good!), and faked his >reports to make it seem his was in Texas, or Ohio, or West Virginia, >or Maryland, when he was phoning it in from Brooklyn, among other >fabrications and deceits... > >But there is more, much more, beneath the superficial manner in which >the Times has offered the Simulation of Full Disclosure. > >I've posted my concerns in this story: > >Jayson Blair Cracked the Code > >The Young Plagiarizer Beat the New York Times at its Own Game > >http://www.narconews.com/= Issue30/article781.html > >And I invite you to post yours on our Readers Comments pages: > >http://www.narconews.com/= Issue30/article782.html > >This is an important moment in the battle for Authentic Journalism... >much too important to be left only to the "journalists"... > > From somewhere in a country called Am=E9rica, > >Al Giordano >Publisher >The Narco News Bulletin >http://www.narconews.com/ >narconews@hotmail.com > >Subscribe for free alerts of new reports: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/narc= onews > >Suscr=EDbete gratis para alertas de nuevos reportajes en Espa=F1ol: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group= /narconewsandes > >Inscreva-se para alertas gratuitos de reportagens do =FAltimo minuto em >portugu=EAs brasileiro: > >http://groups.yahoo.com/grou= p/narconewsbrasil > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >narconews-unsubscribe@egroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the=20 >Yahoo! Terms of Service. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 22:36:17 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Park family Subject: neurology and the origin of language MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is an interesting article re neurology and synaesthesia in the May 2003 issue of Scientific American that makes some points re the possible connection of metaphoric thinking and cross-wiring in the brain. Specifically re the origin of language, the article, by Vilayanur S. Ramachandran and Edward M. Hubbard, states: "Our studies of the neurobiological basis of synesthesia suggest that a facility for metaphor--for seeing deep links between superficially dissimilar and unrelated things--provided a key seed for the eventual emergence of language. . . Assume our ancentral hominids communicated mainly through emotional grunts, groans, howls and shrieks, which are known to be produced by the right hemisphere and an area in the frontal lobes concerned with emotion. Later the hominids developed a rudimentary gestural system that became gradually more elaborate . . . If such gestures were translated through synkinesia into movements of the mouth and face muscles, and if emotional guttural utterances were channeled through these mouth and tongue movements, the result could have been the first spoken words. How would we import syntax, the rules for using words and phrases in language, into this scheme? We believe that the evolution of tool use by hominids may have played an important role. For example, the tool-building sequence--first shape the hammer's head, then attach it to a handle, then chop the meat--resembles the embedding of clauses within larger sentences. Following the lead of psychologist Patricia Greenfield of the University of California at Los Angeles, we propose that frontal brain areas that evolved for subassembly in tool use may later have been co-opted for a complete novel function--joining words into phrases and sentences." I think that their point that the evolution of specific activities (such as tool making) could have influenced language syntax is especially interesting. Susan Firghil Park ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 01:59:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: gregarious splint MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII gregarious splint wild family size Some common wild family sizes Elbow /b> successful for ... with
a drug, the hormone It is either gregarious in patches of forests or in Morality is relevant and necessary for humans as gregar this is a prefix) which is often used today to mean overac The splints are out (now that was a yucky process!) According to Runner's World, "shin splints mos once pointed out: "I am sociable not gregariousgregariousgregarious, demure, or se incense sticks, musical items like flutes, sports goods, w do?" A tall uniformed man leaned in the opposite door CAPI are comfortable, found helpful with prevention/treatm on visiting terms acquainted social, neighborly, internati is everybody's business is nobody's business, that men mus HOUSING *sexes housed separately (*note: usually not desex A gregarious woman of fierce opinions and fiery red I had to wear the splints on both arms last year fo Everyone runs out of gas," the gregarious Sarg should have strength of character to keep up, and with arm Although he enjoyed occasional periods of solitude, Joe wa He was a very energetic, gregarious, friendly man, Chris glared at his gregarious friend then a hint o wild family size Some common wild family sizes Elbow gregarious in patches of forests or in Morality is relevant and necessary for humans as gregar The splints are out (now that was a yucky process!) According to Runner's World, "shin splints mos once pointed out: "I am sociable not gregariousgregariousgregarious, demure, or se incense sticks, musical items like flutes, sports goods, w Gregarious Flowering of Dendrocalamus strictus in S do?" A tall uniformed man leaned in the opposite door CAPI are comfortable, found helpful with prevention/treatm on visiting terms acquainted social, neighborly, internati is everybody's business is nobody's business, that men mus HOUSING *sexes housed separately (*note: usually not desex A gregarious woman of fierce opinions and fiery red Gregarious" was a word used in a lot of interv I had to wear the splints on both arms last year fo Everyone runs out of gas," the gregarious Sarg Gregarious" was a word used in a lot of interv should have strength of character to keep up, and with arm Although he enjoyed occasional periods of solitude, Joe wa A.: Motion Q.: Which jaw is wider in the horse, upper or l Luckily, a neighbour in Smiths Falls, Ont., a town near Ot He was a very energetic, gregarious, friendly man, Chris glared at his gregarious friend then a hint o ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 03:13:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Me and Thrusting Stephen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Me and Thrusting Stephen She keeps thrusting under the surface to pull from said banks worthy deposits for ... too too obvious that I would grow From the opening image (seen through the scrim-like glass conservatory wall) of Giorgio thrusting into Clara and reaching clima She keeps thrusting under the surface to pull from said banks worthy deposits for ... too death-like, lively, protr and who are always thrusting single girls at him. The sophisticated and urbane musical, with book by George Furth, explores a v and who are always thrusting single girls at him. The sophisticated and urbane musical, with book by George Furth, explores a v the skids in the '70s and thereafter, have mixed feelings about Sondheim, and bemoan ... wear his wit and impolite opini As she punctuates a particularly elaborate series of "ha's" by thrusting her jeweled fan ... book by Hugh Whee sets, developed by opera designer Peter Dean Beck, include a massive telescoping Christmas tree that dwarfs everything onstage, thr that sum up the 20th century the list is peppered with the thrusting terms of ... Lady - Loewe & Lerner 2 Sunday in As she punctuates a particularly elaborate series of "ha's" by thrusting her jeweled fan ... book by Hugh Whee of the special makeup effects for the wolf and witch in Sondheim's INTO THE ... school kids and here was this wolf with As she punctuates a particularly elaborate series of "ha's" by thrusting her jeweled fan ... book by Hugh Whee From: Alan Sondheim sondheim tty1 Tue ... beauty thrusting forward slime mold curled find the carrot-topped diva, the closest thing we have to sheer Broadway royalty, thrusting her bosom ... The evening is For all those thrusting artistic-director types hanging out in the artistic directors' marketplace, here's a sneak preview of t DM 21,99 EUR 11,24 T'other Little Tune von Alan Sondheim Versandfertig innerhalb ... not the present and its concept a s Previous message: [_arc.hive_] "A/A" was positive society iss Gershwin, Richard Rodgers & Oscar Hammerstein II, Stephen Sondheim, and Andrew ... Theatre stages Cruz's play with p nightmare."nd lovers tw dualitie Yes, I am a collectivity The Moon is Waning Crescent sondheim@gol.com... ... confusing the thrusting, I need help, why I am writing you is, he said his film has "no full frontal nudity, no genitalia, no thrusting. ... it seemed to be fast-tracking the scr in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (1953), surrounded by tuxedoed chorus boys thrusting jewels at ... Roman slave who connives The following interview with Sondheim, in which he addresses a broad range ... with it, struggling to free itself - an e html ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ TELLING NIKUKO <<<< Nikuk I mean full-on, naked, moaning, thrusting, rutting Muppet sex. ... It's one of Stephen Sondheim's most accessible In the 1973 Tony Awards, it lost out on Best Musical to Sondheim's "A Little Night Music" but received Tonys for Ben And what's the meaning of this?" he cried, thrusting--as it ... with what seemed to be her newfound telepathy, thrusting Alan-Stephen ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 01:24:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: thank you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable for the language discussion. It's assisting me with "finishing" a poem = that was at the precipice, so to speak. Terrie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 01:56:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: OF CANONICAL STATURE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OF CANONICAL STATURE POWERLOOP PART I ,aol caring in the stillness Africa. would. Sharing in the body discount, festering forgiving MICROSOFT,THIS. Very lunge her sharing in the body plunge bounces. In the stillness spring nap, cramped stash understanding for touching second. Sprang peeled holding in the family head mud. Among top loving in the stillness mist lunges. Sprung boob opening in the heart pool crap her. In the heart CASES, spring shadow holding and sharing Vinje,//. Do so ,according giving in the family THREAT MAY. Spring nap in relationship to Microsoft forgiving in the family ,institutions. Represents holding in the present community.. 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Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:51:51 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: Iranian Group Paid By Fanatic Neo-Cons To Say Tehran Has Bioweapons: Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press Iranian Group Paid By Fanatic Neo-Cons To Say Tehran Has Bioweapons: Bombing In Saudi Arabia Doesn't Distract Cheney/Bush Corp. From Iraq U.N. Oil Extraction/Export Proposal: Saudi Bombing Directed At U.S. Vinnell Corporation Mercenaries And Torturers In The Hire Of The Saudi Monarchy: Bush Reminds Crowd That Jed Clampitt Shot His Way Into the Oil Business Too By YASO ADIODI The Assassinated Press May 15, 2003, 4:42 PM EDT ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:54:29 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: theory of practice Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3EC4204C.7275EBB1@delhi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" the best book on jewish humor is freud's jokes and their relation to the unconscious. basically he wanted to write a book celebrating jewish jokes --by which is meant jokes within the jewish culture, not anti-semitic jokes about jews (sometimes people misunderstand this distinction) --and this is what became of it. At 7:18 PM -0400 5/15/03, Kirby Olson wrote: >For Murat Nemet-Nejat, > >There seems to be a confusion here. I am from Delhi, New York, not Delhi >India. The town is misnamed. It is in the Catskill Mountains near >Oneonta New >York and Woodstock NY. The name is a joke perpetrated by a mapmaker in Albany >on the then mayor of this town who seems according to the guidebooks to have >acted "like a mahatma." But it was a friendly joke at his expense, >done in the >early 1800s. > >I am also responsible for the image of the bird in Romanticism as >the notion of >the soul, but also linked them to dinosaurs genetically. there's a >lot of ways >to look at birds -- as symbols, and then you could look at them through the >western scientific lense. > >Sorry for the mix-up. Bill's not responsible for that image -- the Romantics >are. I wasn't really criticizing their idea of the soul, but just noting it, >and wondering if Bill was seeing hope through a Christian lense. No, he was >seeing it through a poetic lense, he said. > >I'm not a Sufi, but I like to read their stuff, especially the wonderful >Nasrudin stories. They are funny stories. I just read in French a funny book >by a Sufi psychiatrist named Moussa Nabati who was a student of Emmanuel >Levinas. It's called L'Humour-Therapie -- where he explains the Nasrudin >stories from within a psychiatric perspective. His explanations are a little >flat compared to the jokes themselves. > >You are probably familiar with these stories. Nasrudin is a kind of >mischievous >Sufi priest. The humor is a little like The Three Stooges except there is a >spiritual dimension. Nasrudin's very important in the Gurdjieff >tradition, and >I have been trying to do research on comic religious motifs so I've >read through >Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff cites Nasrudin more than anybody else. I think they are >like folk humor, but have a spiritual side to them that you're supposed to >contemplate. Here's one I'll quickly translate: > >"A peasant accosted Nasrudine: >'I have a pain in my eye. What do you think I should do?' >'The other day, I had a toothache. I had it taken out, but do as you like.'" > >(p. 46) > >So that's what I meant by Sufi humor. I am not terribly familiar with the >tradition, but find it really kind of fun. I've never met an actual Sufi, >though. I grew up Lutheran. Part of the reason I'm doing research >on religious >humor is that I have suffered a lot from the lack of humor in the Lutheran >tradition. Kant puts it down, Hegel barely deals with it, >Kierkegaard is funny >when he isn't trembling, but it is not a major aspect of the Lutheran church. >Garrison Keillor is a Lutheran humorist but I don't find him very funny. So >I've been researching other traditions. Why should Jews and Sufis >have the best >comic traditions? If anybody knows other funny religious traditions >I would be >interested to hear about them. Lutherans tend toward a kind of piety that I >find a little stupid, frankly. I especially hate this sentimental image of >Christ. I would like him to have been a little funnier. Some >theologians claim >that he is but they twist the words very far to try and make them funny. >Anyway, the shrink's take on the joke above is that too often we ask >others with >different experiences what we should do, when our experience is >individual, and >we have to do what seems right to us, not asking any master but >ourselves. That >sounds right to me, but maybe there is more to it. This book was my intro to >Nasrudine. > >-- Kirby Olson > >Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > >> Bill, >> >> Your comment about "birds" is interesting. "Bird" is a central image of >> Sufism, and my guess is that the person you are responding to 9from Delhi) > > comes from that tradition. I also think "Ode to a Nightingale" is a supreme >> poem, and it does possess a "forward motion," that of the bird through the >> forest. >> >> "Bird" may be a dead word for the soul in purely 20th century western terms, >> but do you think the west is the future of the world or the soul exists in >> only a western language? To me that sounds like a dead idea. >> >> Best. >> >> Murat >> >> In a message dated 5/15/03 2:43:49 PM, Austinwja@AOL.COM writes: >> >> >Also, Ruth is mentioned >> >at >> >the end of the poem, giving it an almost gnostic context of all of humanity >> >and >> >even animals stuck in the wrong place. I found this weird as I reread >> >it. >> >Birds >> >are genetically dinosaurs. Keats didn't know that, and the Romantics keep >> >using >> >them as symbols of soul. -- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:03:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Americans Attack Gas Sellers in Baghdad Comments: cc: ksw-collective@sfu.ca MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's worth looking at the photographs at this new IMC site as well. Do it fast and download the images to your computer. The site will surely be hacked by the weekend. AV-Vanc. News: Civil & Human Rights Tempers flare as US attacks gas sellers in Baghdad by Majid Jarrar and Salaam Al-Jubouri, Al-Muajaha 14 May 2003 Modified: 01:20:57 PM Newspaper Web Special http://www.almuajaha.com BAGHDAD (14 MAY 2003) ? Hamed Mehson Alaiwi never expected to be attacked by the American military. Alaiwi, a former government employee, re-sells gasoline on the street in order to support his family in post-war Iraq. Until today, his new job seemed harmless. Daily, he fills his large, gallon-sized gas cans at the Abu Qlam gas station and goes in search of thirsty cars. Street sales of gasoline have exploded in Baghdad since the war ended and gas shortages began. Gas stations throughout Baghdad have been ordered by the US to stop selling gas to re-sellers and only let people fill their cars, in order to cut down on crowding. When a group of Iraqis carrying gas cans, including Alaiwi, approached Abu Qlam at 1:30pm today, US soldiers stationed there without a translator told the group in English that they couldn't fill their cans. When the Iraqis continued to approach the station, either not understanding or ignoring the order, the soldiers shouted at them to stop, and the Iraqis ran away. The soldiers pursued the group, and pistol-whipped Alaiwi when they caught him, leaving two, prominent welts on his forehead. The soldiers then destroyed the gas cans with their knives. Alaiwi was confused and angry after the beating. I never attached them, they suddenly attacked me. They beat me with their guns, and threatened me with a knife. When they came, they were supposed to give us our freedom, not assault us. He [the soldier] insulted me. If he was an Iraqi, I would kill him. But he is an American, and I can?t do anything, Alaiwi said. Ahmed, an eyewitness to the attack, commented, The fight today was nothing. A few days ago, an old man quarreled with the Americans and they kicked him in the head. Every day such situations happen. Smith, one of the US soldiers stationed at Abu Qlam, said, People were standing in line waiting to buy gasoline, and these guys came with their gallon cans in order to get gasoline to sell in the street. We told them not to do that. They ignored us, and when we ordered him to stop, they ran away. Smith continued, People who run from us are bad people. Hoopra, one of the soldiers who allegedly participated in the beating, said, What guys? and turned away when asked about the attack. Rundown cars, filled with hot, sweating people, line the street in front of Abu Qlam gas station, in Baghdad's Karrada district. Gasoline is only available at this station between 9am and 3pm daily. Before the war, gasoline was cheaper than water in Iraq. Today, people speculate that the US is purposefully causing the shortages in order to teach Iraqis a lesson in the true value of their resources. Ghassan Al-Zubaidi, a high school student working at the gas station, complained after the beating, The Americans came for the freedom? That's all lies. They came, occupied us, and stole our oil. They wanted this [bad situation] for our country. They robbed, and they looted, and they burned all the Ministries, except the Ministry of Oil, which wasn't touched, because they wanted the oil. George Bush is a son-of-a-bitch. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:22:25 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory of practice (for Murat) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit << "Bird" may be a dead word for the soul in purely 20th century western terms, >> but do you think the west is the future of the world or the soul exists in >> only a western language? To me that sounds like a dead idea. >> >> Best. >> >> Murat >> Murat, good to hear from you. Of course I don't think that western ideas, particularly those that are faith based, do or will or should dominate everywhere. That would be silly. I'm not even sure that "bird" is a dead word for soul in western discourse. On the other hand, I once used the word in a poem wherein the joke involved just that deadness, so who knows? I do think that semiotic verities apply across the board, i.e., that all languages are subsets of LANGUAGE, are fields of relations, of interdependent "elements." What may appear to us as individual or--at the top of the heap--self-identical, isn't. Though the appearance rates as one of tricky language's master achievements (the self, as just one example) Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:49:45 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Wieja Subject: follow-up Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed i just wanted to follow up on my post about the police officer in Vermont who went into a classroom in the middle of the night. i didn't mean to come off as high-handed in my last post- the point i wanted to make is one i think the many teachers on this list will understand perfectly: when it comes right down to it, as a teacher, what is the alternative to teaching your convictions? i strongly suspect there isn't an alternative. the liberal high school teacher's detractors have said things like "he needs to be teaching straight history, just the facts." coming right on the heels of assertions that the teacher was "disrespectful" to the president....well, i think it becomes pretty clear what their idea of "straight history" and "the facts" is. _________________________________________________________________ MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:09:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: follow-up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I concur. And we "all" know that history has been, is, and will continue to be manipulated to suit the needs--and purpose--of the history scribes... With a few exceptions, of course... Ter ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Wieja" To: Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 8:49 AM Subject: follow-up > i just wanted to follow up on my post about the police officer in Vermont > who went into a classroom in the middle of the night. > i didn't mean to come off as high-handed in my last post- the point i wanted > to make is one i think the many teachers on this list will understand > perfectly: > > when it comes right down to it, as a teacher, what is the alternative to > teaching your convictions? i strongly suspect there isn't an alternative. > the liberal high school teacher's detractors have said things like "he needs > to be teaching straight history, just the facts." > coming right on the heels of assertions that the teacher was "disrespectful" > to the president....well, i think it becomes pretty clear what their idea of > "straight history" and "the facts" is. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! > http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:24:21 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: follow-up In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Well, this is tricky. I'm a teacher, I don't like what the cop did, and I think the "idiot boy king" comment is funny and telling. But *as* a teacher, I wouldn't have introduced that comment into the classroom (or the bulletin board). For two reasons: the first is that I agree with the administrator who said a comment that strongly worded makes it difficult for students to disagree with the teacher; the second is that I'm usually trying to get my students to articulate actual arguments, to do something more articulate than simple name-calling. Imagine yourself on the other side of that "argument" (i mean the teacher's comment) and see how hard it is to have a discussion. On Fri, 16 May 2003, John Wieja wrote: > i just wanted to follow up on my post about the police officer in Vermont > who went into a classroom in the middle of the night. > i didn't mean to come off as high-handed in my last post- the point i wanted > to make is one i think the many teachers on this list will understand > perfectly: > > when it comes right down to it, as a teacher, what is the alternative to > teaching your convictions? i strongly suspect there isn't an alternative. > the liberal high school teacher's detractors have said things like "he needs > to be teaching straight history, just the facts." > coming right on the heels of assertions that the teacher was "disrespectful" > to the president....well, i think it becomes pretty clear what their idea of > "straight history" and "the facts" is. > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! > http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:39:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: robbing the cradle In-Reply-To: <16d.1cc001b0.2bf65c31@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit TOO BIG TO POST http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/rthec01.html ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:46:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Samantha Pinto Subject: Poetry/prose about advertising MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all: I was wondering if anyone could refer me to poetry/prose that takes on advertising, commericials, etc. in either form or content (or both). Thank you! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:50:55 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: women in prison MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I taught in the jails for many years. Your situation is much more ideal, because you don't, unfortunately for your students, have a high turnover. As for poetry to bring in, personally, I started with international poets who'd been incarcerated and moved in and out of that. With some notable exceptions, I found that the incarcerated would rather read poetry that doesn't deal with directly with incarceration. There is one tremendous book of poems recently out by a French Moroccan poet, Abdulaatif Laabi (City Lights Books), called The World's Embrace. It's bilingual. This poet was imprisoned for 8 years simply for writing poetry. It is one of the most beautiful books of poetry dealing with war and love and nationalisms I've ever encountered. He writes with a simple vocabularly, very accessible like Williams, yet very deep. If you want to weigh your reading with women, I can give you a lengthy list of women writing in something like the poem in prose. Some contemporary and some older. Please back channel. My Best, Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 07:20:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: poetry auctions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" In addition to the usual new music items, I have several magazines, books, and recordings on ebay auctions now that might be of interest to some of y'all: recordings by Paul Bowles, HD; mags include special issues of Boundary 2, Ironwood, Paideuma, Sagetrieb, O-blek, (featuring Spicer/Dickinson, Oppen, Niedecker, Duncan and more), runs of Montemora and Temblor. I'll be getting a lot more of our literary stuff up on ebay in the coming weeks, including Vorts, Talismans, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E, etc. Some of these auctions close this weekend. Check it out: If this link doesn't workfor you, search ebay for seller . Thanks a lot. -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:53:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising In-Reply-To: <000501c31bca$a9adf6c0$08e2e8a9@gl3cv01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Depends on what you mean by "takes on" -- there's a poem by Ginsberg titled "Personals Ad," which really is a personals ad. There's a song by Neil Young, I think it's on Sleeps with Angels, titled "Piece of Crap," in which a part of the chorus goes something like saw it on the tube bought it on the phone when I got it home it was a piece of crap that I've always rather liked. There are certainly moments in Olson's Maximus where he takes on the everywhere-present advertising that kills everything else. charles At 09:46 AM 5/16/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Hello all: >I was wondering if anyone could refer me to poetry/prose that takes on >advertising, commericials, etc. in either form or content (or both). >Thank you! charles alexander / chax press fold the book inside the book keep it open always read from the inside out speak then ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:57:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Barbara Cole's Situation Comedies is one of my recent favorites. It is = an extensive - if not epic project, and a representative section was = recently published by Handwritten Press. It is a beautiful handmade = book. Cole's typographic design blurts and channel-surfs - sullen and = silly. It is bound with industrial screws and black sandpaper create and = elegant, yet enduring hinge over "desert storm" coverstock. See = http://handwritten.org/ for details. - Kyle ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Samantha Pinto=20 To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU=20 Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 11:46 AM Subject: Poetry/prose about advertising Hello all: I was wondering if anyone could refer me to poetry/prose that takes on advertising, commericials, etc. in either form or content (or both). Thank you! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:39:50 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Vonnegut: Strange Weather Lately MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://inthesetimes.com/comments.php?id=191_0_4_0_C Strange Weather Lately By Kurt Vonnegut | 5.9.03 The following is adapted from a Clemens Lecture presented in April for the Mark Twain House in Hartford, Connecticut. -------------- First things first: I want it clearly understood that this mustache I'm wearing is my father's mustache. I should have brought his photograph. My big brother Bernie, now dead, a physical chemist who discovered that silver iodide can sometimes make it snow or rain, he wore it, too. Speaking of weather: Mark Twain said some readers complained that there wasn't enough weather in his stories. So he wrote some weather, which they could insert wherever they thought it would help some. Mark Twain was said to have shed a tear of gratitude and incredulousness when honored for his writing by Oxford University in England. And I should shed a tear, surely, having been asked at the age of 80, and because of what I myself have written, to speak under the auspices of the sacred Mark Twain House here in Hartford. What other American landmark is as sacred to me as the Mark Twain House? The Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C. Mark Twain and Abraham Lincoln were country boys from Middle America, and both of them made the American people laugh at themselves and appreciate really important, really moral jokes. I note that construction has stopped of a Mark Twain Museum here in Hartford - behind the carriage house of the Mark Twain House at 351 Farmington Avenue. Work persons have been sent home from that site because American "conservatives," as they call themselves, on Wall Street and at the head of so many of our corporations, have stolen a major fraction of our private savings, have ruined investors and employees by means of fraud and outright piracy. Shock and awe. And now, having installed themselves as our federal government, or taken control of it from outside, they have squandered our public treasury and then some. They have created a public debt of such appalling magnitude that our descendants, for whom we had such high hopes, will come into this world as poor as church mice. Shock and awe. What are the conservatives doing with all the money and power that used to belong to all of us? They are telling us to be absolutely terrified, and to run around in circles like chickens with their heads cut off. But they will save us. They are making us take off our shoes at airports. Can anybody here think of a more hilarious practical joke than that one? Smile, America. You're on Candid Camera. And they have turned loose a myriad of our high-tech weapons, each one costing more than a hundred high schools, on a Third World country, in order to shock and awe human beings like us, like Adam and Eve, between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. The other day I asked former Yankees pitcher Jim Bouton what he thought of our great victory over Iraq, and he said, "Mohammed Ali versus Mr. Rogers." What are conservatives? They are people who will move heaven and earth, if they have to, who will ruin a company or a country or a planet, to prove to us and to themselves that they are superior to everybody else, except for their pals. They take good care of their pals, keep them out of jail-and so on. Conservatives are crazy as bedbugs. They are bullies. Shock and awe. Class war? You bet. They have proved their superiority to admirers of Abraham Lincoln and Mark Twain and Jesus of Nazareth, with an able assist from television, making inconsequential our protests against their war. What has happened to us? We have suffered a technological calamity. Television is now our form of government. On what grounds did we protest their war? I could name many, but I need name only one, which is common sense. Be that as it may, construction of the Mark Twain Museum will sooner or later be resumed. And I, the son and grandson of Indiana architects, seize this opportunity to suggest a feature which I hope will be included in the completed structure, words to be chiseled into the capstone over the main entrance. Here is what I think would be fun to put up there, and Mark Twain loved fun more than anything. I have tinkered with something famous he said, which is: "Be good and you will be lonesome." That is from Following the Equator. OK? So envision what a majestic front entrance the Mark Twain Museum will have someday. And imagine that these words have been chiseled into the noble capstone and painted gold: Be good and you will be lonesome most places, but not here, not here. One of the most humiliated and heartbroken pieces Twain ever wrote was about the slaughter of 600 Moro men, women and children by our soldiers during our liberation of the people of the Philippines after the Spanish-American War. Our brave commander was Leonard Wood, who now has a fort named after him. Fort Leonard Wood. What did Abraham Lincoln have to say about such American imperialist wars? Those are wars which, on one noble pretext or another, actually aim to increase the natural resources and pools of tame labor available to the richest Americans who have the best political connections. And it is almost always a mistake to mention Abraham Lincoln in a speech about something or somebody else. He always steals the show. I am about to quote him. Lincoln was only a Congressman when he said in 1848 what I am about to echo. He was heartbroken and humiliated by our war on Mexico, which had never attacked us. We were making California our own, and a lot of other people and properties, and doing it as though butchering Mexican soldiers who were only defending their homeland against invaders wasn't murder. What other stuff besides California? Well, Texas, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and parts of Colorado and Wyoming. The person congressman Lincoln had in mind when he said what he said was James Polk, our president at the time. Abraham Lincoln said of Polk, his president, our armed forces' commander-in-chief: "Trusting to escape scrutiny by fixing the public gaze upon the exceeding brightness of military glory, that attractive rainbow that rises in showers of blood -that serpent's eye, that charms to destroy, he plunged into war." Holy smokes! I almost said, "Holy shit!" And I thought I was a writer! Do you know we actually captured Mexico City during the Mexican War? Why isn't that a national holiday? And why isn't the face of James Polk up on Mount Rushmore, along with Ronald Reagan's? What made Mexico so evil back in the 1840s, well before our Civil War, is that slavery was illegal there. Remember the Alamo? My great-grandfather's name was Clemens Vonnegut. Small world, small world. This piquant coincidence is not a fabrication. Clemens Vonnegut called himself a "freethinker," an antique word for humanist. He was a hardware merchant in Indianapolis. So, 120 years ago, say, there was one man who was both Clemens and Vonnegut. I would have liked being such a person a lot. I only wish I could have been such a person tonight. I claim no blood relationship with Samuel Clemens of Hannibal, Missouri. "Clemens," as a first name, is, I believe, like the name "Clementine," derived from the adjective "clement." To be clement is to be lenient and compassionate, or, in the case of weather, perfectly heavenly. So there's weather again. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:12:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Duration Press Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit there's a section of Kristin Prevallet's book, Scratch Sides (from Skanky Possum-- http://www.skankypossum.com), that reworks grocery store advertisements... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Schlesinger" To: Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 1:57 PM Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising Barbara Cole's Situation Comedies is one of my recent favorites. It is an extensive - if not epic project, and a representative section was recently published by Handwritten Press. It is a beautiful handmade book. Cole's typographic design blurts and channel-surfs - sullen and silly. It is bound with industrial screws and black sandpaper create and elegant, yet enduring hinge over "desert storm" coverstock. See http://handwritten.org/ for details. - Kyle ----- Original Message ----- From: Samantha Pinto To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 11:46 AM Subject: Poetry/prose about advertising Hello all: I was wondering if anyone could refer me to poetry/prose that takes on advertising, commericials, etc. in either form or content (or both). Thank you! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 10:50:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising In-Reply-To: <000501c31bce$633a1670$492bfea9@vaio> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I am sure I am not alone on this list for having tried having a day job in the "naming" or "branding" industry and/or writing ads. Even in the poetry business it's an inevitable part of running any Publishing House, small or large, coming up with a tag line and/or photograph to promote the poet. Sales are about aiming the advert arrow at the heart, brain & wallet. Depending on "the product" it can feel either totally scuzzy or totally alright, true to its origins, etc. etc. One of once more famous incidents of a poet's hand on the ad making side is Lew Welch's oft repeated sixties & seventies TV Ad Mantra: Raid Kills Bugs Dead No, Lew did not stay in that business. Stephen V on 5/16/03 10:12 AM, Duration Press at jerrold@DURATIONPRESS.COM wrote: > there's a section of Kristin Prevallet's book, Scratch Sides (from Skanky > Possum-- http://www.skankypossum.com), that reworks grocery store > advertisements... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Schlesinger" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 1:57 PM > Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising > > > Barbara Cole's Situation Comedies is one of my recent favorites. It is an > extensive - if not epic project, and a representative section was recently > published by Handwritten Press. It is a beautiful handmade book. Cole's > typographic design blurts and channel-surfs - sullen and silly. It is bound > with industrial screws and black sandpaper create and elegant, yet enduring > hinge over "desert storm" coverstock. See http://handwritten.org/ for > details. > > - Kyle > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Samantha Pinto > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 11:46 AM > Subject: Poetry/prose about advertising > > > Hello all: > I was wondering if anyone could refer me to poetry/prose that takes on > advertising, commericials, etc. in either form or content (or both). > Thank you! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:17:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Olson mag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Essentially _Minutes of the Charles Olson Society_ is the continuation of _Olson: The Journal of the Charles Olson Archives_ and can be had by sending Ralph Maud a nominal sum: Ralph Maud 1104 Maple St. Vancouver, BC, Canada V6J 3R6 Some of you will know Maud's work from _Charles Olson's Reading: A Biography_ (Southern Illinois UP, 1996). A biography of a bibliography! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:21:59 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: follow-up MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I agree with you, Steven. Being that our country has its face up its butt right now, I can appreciate how difficult it would be not to inject one's own views into the classroom. It takes discipline not to. But this, I suggest, is part of a teacher's job description. The classroom is where children are suppossed to learn not how to think as their teacher thinks, or their parents, their church, the media...but how to think for themselves. -Joel >Steven Shoemaker wrote: > Well, this is tricky. I'm a teacher, I don't like what the cop did, and I > think the "idiot boy king" comment is funny and telling. But *as* a > teacher, I wouldn't have introduced that comment into the classroom (or > the bulletin board). For two reasons: the first is that I agree with the > administrator who said a comment that strongly worded makes it difficult > for students to disagree with the teacher; the second is that I'm usually > trying to get my students to articulate actual arguments, to do something > more articulate than simple name-calling. Imagine yourself on the other > side of that "argument" (i mean the teacher's comment) and see how hard it > is to have a discussion. > > On Fri, 16 May 2003, John Wieja wrote: > > > i just wanted to follow up on my post about the police officer in Vermont > > who went into a classroom in the middle of the night. > > i didn't mean to come off as high-handed in my last post- the point i wanted > > to make is one i think the many teachers on this list will understand > > perfectly: > > > > when it comes right down to it, as a teacher, what is the alternative to > > teaching your convictions? i strongly suspect there isn't an alternative. > > the liberal high school teacher's detractors have said things like "he needs > > to be teaching straight history, just the facts." > > coming right on the heels of assertions that the teacher was "disrespectful" > > to the president....well, i think it becomes pretty clear what their idea of > > "straight history" and "the facts" is. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > MSN Messenger : discutez en direct avec vos amis ! > > http://www.msn.fr/msger/default.asp > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:29:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising In-Reply-To: <000501c31bca$a9adf6c0$08e2e8a9@gl3cv01> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { Hello all: { I was wondering if anyone could refer me to poetry/prose that takes on { advertising, commericials, etc. in either form or content (or both). { Thank you! First name that pops up for me is Kenneth Fearing. Here's the second section of "Aphrodite Metropolis": II. "Myrtle loves Harry"--It is sometimes hard to remember a thing like that, Hard to think about it, and no one knows what to do with it when he has it, So write it out on a billboard that stands under the yellow light of an "L" platform among popcorn wrappers and crushed cigars, A poster that says "Mama I Love Crispy Wafers So." Leave it on a placard where somebody else gave a blonde lady a pencil moustache, and another perplexed citizen deposited: "Jesus Saves. Jesus Saves." One can lay this bundle down there with the others, And never lose it, or forget it, or want it. "Myrtle loves Harry." They live somewhere. --Kenneth Fearing Hal Serving the tri-state area. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:17:09 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Turkish Poet seeking readings in Toronto area MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII this is from another list that i'm on. kevin >X-Originating-Email: [fikretgorken16@hotmail.com] >From: "Fikret Gorken" A] > > >Hello Dear CPA.My name is Fikret Gorken.I am a Turkish Poet. >I came in Canada 1 year ago.I won my hearing 4 months ago.Can I arrange a >poem night about my art? Can you help me? I want to explain "My poem, >Turkish Poets and Crime of Idea into Turkey" I'm convention refugee now. > >I send to you my biography. > >My Biography: >I was born in Istanbul/Turkey (17.10.1965).I read at the University of >Istanbul Literature >Faculty.(1985-1992) I'm historian. I stayed under arrest into 1 year 4 >times on 1980. > >(Place of Tortures : Kartal Armor-Plated Brigade. Mahir Cayan run away >from here, this place is famous about torture. Torturer : Captain Mustafa >Cakir and 11 soldiers.They made merciless torture to me first time into 2 >months.(electroshock,sand bags, to starve (5 days), to bastinado, >everytime savagely beaiting, they took a wood land a night to me, they >showed to me graves, always kill threats,I lost my conscious, I was 15 >years old yet, I had a idenditity card, on the wrote registered >DIYARBAKIR-BISMIL- Saritoprak village. I seen many times under arrest 5-6 >years old childrens, sol- >diers were giving electroshock them.) > >I worked 6,5 years Istanbul Bar Association Human Rights >Services.(1996-2002)My >duties consisted of legal support to detainees, monitoring of person >tortured and statistic gathering of tortured persons.I came across 15.000 >in my 6,5 years with the >Human Rights Services.I personally had a bomb go off(outside my office) >while wor- >king late one night 1998. > >I wrote 7 books.I'm socialist a poet. My books published only socialist >publish houses. >(Bilim, Varyos, Ceren,Iskenderiye) I worked to Emegin Bayragi socialist >magazines 1 >year(Worker correspondent) I read my poems and I opened a banner into >steamship >big saloon.20 police officers lynched to me and they detained to me. >Public prosecutor >wanted 2 years prison for me. > Sultanahmet Prison closed at the 1990.I read my poems into prison > courtyard for to protest >tortures.I collected signature for freedom to Grup Yorum and I took this >signatures from Is- >tanbul to Konya lawcourt, Selcuk Police Station officers detained to me. I >wanted to make a >Poem Wall to Kadikoy.I collected signature because of this.Kadikoy Mayor >didn't accept. > >I'm writing poem only for human rights, democracy and peaces.I want to >freedom for all publics.I don't have a gun, a tank, a cannon, torture >tools, but I have only a bowl honey. >I don't afraid their guns, but they afraid from my a bowl honey,from my >poems. > > >Contact Address In Canada 403-140 Wellington.Street South. > L8N 2R4 Hamilton/ON. >Contact Phone (905)529 43 77 >Contact >E-Mail >fikretgorken16@hotmail.com > >I wrote different politicial magazines. (Genc Iletisim, Emegin Bayragi, >Atilim, Iskenderiye, >Cagdas Divrigi, Ayaktayiz) I have published my books. My books name is: > "Kirk Nirengide Sokenleriz Safagi"-Bilim Yayinevi/1990-Istanbul/Turkey > "Sevdan Kinali Kursun"..... Varyos > Yayinevi/1992-Istanbul/Turkey > "Spartakus"......................... Ceylan > Yayinevi/1997-Istanbul/Turkey > "Adam Dedigin".................. Iskenderiye > Yazilari/2000-Istanbul/Turkey > "Kuyucu"............................. Not Yet > "Kuresellestiremediklerimizdenmisiniz" Not Yet > "Yuksekten Korkan Kus"....Not Yet > > >I member Turkish Writers Association.(Union) >I member BESAM (Turkey Science,Literature,Art Workers Occupation Society) >I member TEZ-KOOP-IS (Turkey Labor Union) > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:45:23 -0600 Reply-To: gjfarrah@cloudnet.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "George J. Farrah" Subject: Swans Through The House MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sound escaping in an intelligent way insulating material microchip not obeying a musical note touch which cannot be born touch which cannot be defined in one piece understood and loved recently rooms in a ship from time to time cut speech into networks attack music sung at the beginning of church the law cannot be found again so they say patterns of grammar the condition of pain integrity and hope ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:53:25 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There are tons of poems that "take on" advertising & its rhetorics -=20 usually from the somewhat easy (though understandable) position that=20 advertising/marketing/etc=2E is _bad_/inauthentic/sullies things with=20 commodification/etc/etc=2E=2E=2E proposing, I suppose some realm of true,=20= uncommodified, authentic experience outside of consumer culture=2E=2E=2E=20= Now, sure, ad-culture is all "BS"/hype/blather etc=2E=2E=2E but "the kids = today"=20 already know this, already know all the critiques - hell, they learned the= =20 critiques not from Adorno & Horkheimer but from the ads themselves!=20 And - gasp - they still buy things they don't "need"=2E=2E=2E Much more compelling to me - at least recently - are those works that=20 investigate the trickier, more nuanced realm of what we might think of=20 as consumer culture writ large, or what W=2EF=2EHaug termed commodity=20 aesthetics=2E=2E=2E Kim Rosenfield's Good Morning Midnight & Harryette=20 Mullen's S*PERM*K*T (sp?) are two recent examples that come to=20 mind, that are not afraid to delve into the complex realm of desire &=20 pleasure that is part & parcel of any active engagement with commodity=20 culture as experienced (at least in the US) today=2E=2E=2E and also mine t= he=20 poetics of ad-cult for the linguistic and rhetorical workings that are=20 actually not that distinct from some a-g poetries=2E=2E=2E (and needless = to=20 say, this does not negate the possibility for a radical/critical take on the=20 issue[s], but merely to recognize the contemporary subject's=20 positioning viz=2E such social/cultural conditions=2E=2E=2E in order to re= nder such=20 critique more "accurate" =2E=2E=2E to acknowledge that, despite one's "pro= per"=20 distate for advertising & consumer culture, one still gets off on the feel= =20 of expensive fabric [its being expensive a key to why it feels so=20 "luxurious," decadent], the simplicity of that of the "By Mennon" campaign [i=2Ee=2E, "BUY Mennon"], the=20 retro-authenticity of pre-fab doc-knock-offs, the PC infographics on a=20 box of organic cereal, the smell of the paper in that new book of poetry=20= you ordered online- to acknowledge this is not proof that you're a sell=20= out but that you're alive in the contemporary)=2E=2E=2E I think such a poetics can offer a kind of pedagogy of commodity=20 aesthetics - tactics and strategies for critical readings and=20 engagements with the culture around us - a culture that is fully under=20 the sign of marketing and consumerism - while recognizing our own=20 participation in that culture, our own complex relations of fantasy &=20 desire & money & things - without falling into preachy tones or the=20 see-i-know-better-isms of most critiques of advertising=2E=2E=2E David Buuck=20 "one ad / one vote" -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:26:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: On the blaaaaargh MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit David Antin and Mini Me -- related? Check it out: http://www.livejournal.com/users/rootedfool/ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:34:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: The Model For My Siren Lies Under Other Skies Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed aisle end owns monies tricked & monies in cursive, season clearer due to tense slash as slashes is those who levitate do not take orders the king IS a thing gathering morrow great many broken filmy strolling could not foam the mast was sent up in the middle of the blank sheet animal séance corpse inside-out whiff of a stowage turn your head out of sight, spoke again the other way around stood beside them half-eaten & whole again poised to let her off the radio gets too quiet elevator skipped a beat here profane steadies help me out on this point magnetism has qualities unknown to cohesion pure to be sure _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 14:44:00 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Fine, Then (Model/Siren/Other Skies) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed aisle end owns monies tricked & monies in cursive, season clearer due to tense slash as slashes is those who levitate do not take orders the king IS a thing gathering morrow great many broken filmy strolling could not foam the mast was sent up in the middle of the blank sheet animal-séance { corpse } inside-out whiff of a stowage turn your head out of sight, spoke again the other way around stood beside them half-eaten & whole again poised to let her off the radio gets too quiet elevator skipped a beat here profane steadies help me out on this point magnetism has qualities unknown to cohesion pure to be sure _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 12:53:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Samantha Pinto Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising Comments: To: dbuuck@mindspring.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you for your suggestions. I should clarify that by "take on," I didn't necessarily mean poetry that was "anti" advertising/capitalism in some simplistic way. Rather, I was much more interested in finding pieces that incorporated and investigated the complicated formal and recursive terrain of advertising. "Take on" is a broad term-- perhaps not the most appropriate, but certainly not one that assumes a strictly (or boring) adversarial stance. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 11:53 AM Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising There are tons of poems that "take on" advertising & its rhetorics - usually from the somewhat easy (though understandable) position that advertising/marketing/etc. is _bad_/inauthentic/sullies things with commodification/etc/etc... proposing, I suppose some realm of true, uncommodified, authentic experience outside of consumer culture... Now, sure, ad-culture is all "BS"/hype/blather etc... but "the kids today" already know this, already know all the critiques - hell, they learned the critiques not from Adorno & Horkheimer but from the ads themselves! And - gasp - they still buy things they don't "need"... Much more compelling to me - at least recently - are those works that investigate the trickier, more nuanced realm of what we might think of as consumer culture writ large, or what W.F.Haug termed commodity aesthetics... Kim Rosenfield's Good Morning Midnight & Harryette Mullen's S*PERM*K*T (sp?) are two recent examples that come to mind, that are not afraid to delve into the complex realm of desire & pleasure that is part & parcel of any active engagement with commodity culture as experienced (at least in the US) today... and also mine the poetics of ad-cult for the linguistic and rhetorical workings that are actually not that distinct from some a-g poetries... (and needless to say, this does not negate the possibility for a radical/critical take on the issue[s], but merely to recognize the contemporary subject's positioning viz. such social/cultural conditions... in order to render such critique more "accurate" ... to acknowledge that, despite one's "proper" distate for advertising & consumer culture, one still gets off on the feel of expensive fabric [its being expensive a key to why it feels so "luxurious," decadent], the simplicity of that of the "By Mennon" campaign [i.e., "BUY Mennon"], the retro-authenticity of pre-fab doc-knock-offs, the PC infographics on a box of organic cereal, the smell of the paper in that new book of poetry you ordered online- to acknowledge this is not proof that you're a sell out but that you're alive in the contemporary)... I think such a poetics can offer a kind of pedagogy of commodity aesthetics - tactics and strategies for critical readings and engagements with the culture around us - a culture that is fully under the sign of marketing and consumerism - while recognizing our own participation in that culture, our own complex relations of fantasy & desire & money & things - without falling into preachy tones or the see-i-know-better-isms of most critiques of advertising... David Buuck "one ad / one vote" -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:53:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: Durgin / Kenning - new address MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm taking Kenning on the road and settling down for a nap at the = following, new address: 1197 Euclid Avenue, Berkeley CA 94708. A = reminder that the last two issues of Kenning (12 & 13 respectively) are = still available, and even more issues (including K. Silem Mohammad's = _hovercraft_ and the Guest / Killian collaboration _Often_) available = from SPD. Info on Kenning available at www.durationpress.com/kenning Patrick F. Durgin _____________________ www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:58:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Patrick F. Durgin" Subject: I blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And now I blog - http://sorter.blogspot.com _____________________ www.buffalo.edu/~pdurgin ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:11:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" In relation to David Buuck's attempt to problematize this subject, I recently read an essay by Paul Twitchell called "In Praise of Consumerism." (It was reprinted in the book I use for my comp class called *Seeing & Writing 2* -- about which I'd appreciate some back-channel comments if anyone knows it). Anyway, he starts off with a 1923 statement about advertising by one Helen Landon Cass, which reads, in part "Sell them their dreams. Sell them what they longed for and hoped for and almost despaired of having. Sell them hats by splashing sunlight across them. Sell them dreams -- dreams of country clubs and proms and visions of what might happen if only. After all, people don't buy things to have things. They buy things to work for them. They buy hope . . ." And he says this can be read in one of two ways, by a melancholy Marxist who sees it a barely veiled indictment of capitalism, or by an unrepentant capitalist who knows consumers demand meaning. "Snake oil to the cynic is often holy water to the eager." But here are the two paragraphs that really got to me, which I quote in full: "I think that much of our current refusal to consider the liberating role of consumption is the result of who has been doing the describing. Since the 1960s, the primary 'readers' of the commercial 'text' have been the well-tended and tenured members of the academy. For any number of reasons -- the most obvious being their low levels of disposable income (!), average age, and gender, and the fact that these critics are selling a competing product, high-cult (which is also coated with its own dream values) -- the academy has casually passed off as 'hegemonic brainwashing' what seems to me, at least, a self-evident truth about human nature: we like having stuff." Then come a few more paragraphs, and then this utterly damning graph: "Needless to say, in such a system [the sexist materialist hegemonic advertising system] the only safe place to be is tenured, underpaid, self-defined as marginalized, teaching two days a week for nine months a year, and writing really perceptive social criticism that your colleagues can pretend to read. Or rather, you *would* be writing such articles if only you could find the time." OUCH! A long-time subscriber to *Adbusters*, Joe Safdie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:04:59 -0400 Reply-To: cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corey Frost Organization: CUNY Subject: PMR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a reminder and a request that you come to the Perpetual Motion Roadshow on Saturday, at 2 pm, at Softskull Shortwave Bookstore, 71 Bond St. in Brooklyn. You won't regret it. I'll be there, and because the people in the show are great performers I'm hoping many others will be there too. Check out the website for details and listen to the online tour diary: www.nomediakings.net Corey -- Corey Frost * 718-855-8042 * 135 Plymouth St. #309A, Brooklyn, NY 11201 cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Bits World: www.attcanada.ca/~coreyf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 13:18:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: CIRCULARS -- last 100 stories MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Apologies for the two long posts today, but this . . . "Circulars is going into hibernation mode for the summer, possibly forever, on May 31." . . . is one of the sadder stories of the year. Brian's great service in making available an electronic forum of poetic dissent against the war should be a benchmark for any future efforts to democratize the web. It's also, unfortunately, a sign that the so-called "political poetry" of the last few months was nothing of the kind, but more of a knee-jerk reaction to the invasion of Iraq -- an event that few of more than cheerleader mentality can welcome, but also a dead end as a "subject" for any poetry that would seek to last longer than a few moments. And I say that while realizing that "the test of time" is a bogus criteria for judging poems. But I mean, really -- what happens to all those "Poets Against the War" now that the war's over? It must be time to start monitoring our portfolios again while making fun of Robert Pinsky and epateing le bourgeoise . . . oh, and of course, having high-level discussions about whether the thing is really real or just made that way by language, that's always a good one . . . (I was wondering if anyone remembered the little anecdote, in Cage's *Silence*, about Suzuki Roshi being asked, after a three-day conference on the nature of reality with other esteemed academics and religious leaders, whether the table he was sitting at was real. And he said "Of course it's real!") (Oh, and that story about Jayson Blair from the *Christian Science Monitor*? Totally true. And Swift really did mean to eat those babies.) I don't really mean to sound misanthropic, but it's been a pretty wretched century so far. Have you noticed? Brian says . . . "There's still enough bad news to go around, but the intensity of the dissent, at least online, has slackened -- time to try something different." It's true that the intensity of the dissent has slackened, but why? The accommodation to the invasion is rather startling. The *Times* cautiously asks where the weapons might be (but then, who listens to them? They lie.) The Democratic "electable" wing of the party says any candidate who's not strong on defense -- anyone who thought the invasion was the wrong move (not to mention illegal, immoral, venal, short-sighted and suicidal to any lasting peace in the region) -- can't be elected. The media, of course, falls in line. Let's not even talk about Fox News, soon to own even more media outlets in your neighborhood . . . Here's the familiar but reliable Noam Chomsky on this question (from an interview with David Barsamian published in *Monthly Review*): "DB: You've described the level of public protest and resistance to the Iraq war as "unprecedented"; never before has there been so much opposition before a war began. Where is that resistance going? "NC: I don't know any way to predict human affairs. It will go the way people decide it will go. There are many possibilities. It should intensify. The tasks are now much greater and more serious than they were before. On the other hand, it's harder. It's just psychologically easier to organize to oppose a military attack than it is to oppose a long-standing program of imperial ambition, of which this attack is one phase, and of which others are going to come next. That takes more thought, more dedication, more long-term engagement. It's the difference between deciding, okay, I'm in this for the long haul and saying, okay, I'm going out to a demonstration tomorrow and then back home. Those are choices, all of them. The same in the civil rights movement, the women's movement, anything." Despite my antipathy, these days, for all things Texas, I'm rooting for Steve Nash, the Canadian point guard of the Dallas Mavericks, with his eternal bad hair day and anti-imperial sentiments. I'm rooting for all of us who have been sickened and disillusioned by the coup d'etat of the homicidal bunch of maniacs currently running the American government. And I'm rooting for "something different" -- for a poetry that continues to monitor and respond to this low point in our history. Joe Safdie ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:21:48 -0400 Reply-To: cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corey Frost Organization: CUNY Subject: PMR MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is a reminder and a request that you come to the Perpetual Motion Roadshow on Saturday, at 2 pm, at Softskull Shortwave Bookstore, 71 Bond St. in Brooklyn. You won't regret it. I'll be there, and because the people in the show are great performers I'm hoping many others will be there too. Check out the website for details and listen to the online tour diary: www.nomediakings.net Corey -- Corey Frost * 718-855-8042 * 135 Plymouth St. #309A, Brooklyn, NY 11201 cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Bits World: www.attcanada.ca/~coreyf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:14:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "Synaesthetic Sonnets 1 & 2" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Synaesthetic Sonnet #1 grunts, groans, howls and shrieks, frontal lobes concerned with emotion, superficially dissimilar things, deep links, howls of system, dusk of syntax neurobiological basis of metaphor, emergence of language, embedding of clauses within larger sentences, purple like a toxic herb, first shape the hammer's head guttural utterances produced by the right hemisphere, he was green with nakedness when she knocked, joining words into phrases and sentences, on a seed and attach basis Synaesthetic Sonnet #2 and sentences, on a seed and attach basis she knocked, joining words into phrases hemisphere, he was green with nakedness when guttural utterances produced by the right first shape the hammer's head within larger sentences, purple like a toxic herb, emergence of language, embedding of clauses neurobiological basis of metaphor howls of system, dusk of syntax superficially dissimilar things, deep links, frontal lobes concerned with emotion, grunts, groans, howls and shrieks --Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:09:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: eleni stecopoulos Subject: Fwd: Paris translation event Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sarah Riggs asked me to forward the following to the list. >T R A N S L A T I N G P E A C E > > >Etel Adnan * Pierre Alferi * Pascale Casanova * Nicola Gardini * Nuno >Judice * Abdellatif Laâbi * Andrea Raos * Ryoko Sekiguchic * Bertrand >Schefer * Cole Swensen > > >Wedneday May 21, 7pm > >@ galerie éof >15 rue Saint Fiacre >75002 Paris (M° rue Montmartre) >tel. 01 53 40 72 22 >eof5@wanadoo.fr > >“un acte de décentrement créateur conscient de lui-même” >(= translation according to Antoine Berman, in L’épreuve de l’étranger, >Gallimard 1984) > > >This event was conceived on the precipice of war with Iraq, to frame the >question of the poet's political role. > >Given that Paris is a significant crossing point for poets of multiple >nationalities, and a place where many translation exchanges begin, we have >invited a handful of poets from around the world with strong affiliations >to >Paris to speak to the social implications of translation activity. > >Beyond the traduttore traditore cliché, the act of translating is a refusal >of refusal (of the fence), an attempt at communicating across difference, >at >communicating difference and allowing one's language to be permeated by it. >War is what happens when such communication (or the wish/patience/desire >for >it) breaks down. > >The rationale for this event is to place the focus on what >translation/poetry is doing at a structural level that makes it a powerful >political act, inseparable from an nvestment in exploring the edges of >language. > >This event is offered as a venue for articulating the social implications >of >your translation activity, and to speak to the impetuses for why you >translate, what you do with linguistic obstacles, and what the larger >implications of the act of translating may be as a kind of model for >communicating across divides. > >Each poet/translator is invited to speak for 10-15 minutes, and to mix in >readings of translation work or poetry in whatever proportion. > >“If it can be done why do it” > >(Gertrude Stein) > > >Organizers > >Omar Berrada / 01.58.30.75.68 / 48 Bld du Temple, Paris 11 / >omar.berrada@m4x.org > >Sarah Riggs / 01.48.04.78.14 / 14 rue Pavée, Paris 4 / >sriggs@freesurf.fr > > >Notes bio-bibliographic > >Cole Swensen > >Recent books of poetry include Numen, Try, and Such Rich Hour (University >of >Iowa Press, 2001), which is loosely based on the calendar illuminations >from >the Très Riches Heures du Duc de Berry. Cole Swensen translates >extensively >from french to english, and her translations include Natural Gaits by >Pierre >Alferi and L'Art Poetic by Olivier Cadiot. > > >Ryoko Sekiguchi > >Since 1997, she has lived in Paris, and, in 1999 began to translate her own >work from Japanese into French. She has also translated, into French, the >work of Gozo Yoshimasu, and, into Japanese, the work of Abdelwahab Meddeb. >She has five books published in Japan and two in France. Her French books >are Calque (P.O.L, 2001), & Cassiopee Peca (cipM, 2001). Ryoko Sekiguchi >has made the poetry of Anne Portugal and Pierre Alferi available in Japan >through her translations of the french. > > >Andrea Raos > >Italian poet and translator, Andrea Raos, has lived in both Paris and Japan >in recent years, and his collection of poetry, Aspettami, dice, poesie >1992- >20002 (Pieraldo Editore 2003) soon appears in France (cipM), translated by >Jean-Jacques Viton and Liliane Giraudon, His series of translations of >contemporary Italian poets will appear in a coming issue of Action >Poétique. > >(http://www.cipmarseille.com/statique/pages/auteurs/fiches/raos.html) > >Etel Adnan est poète, peintre et essayiste. Née au Liban en 1925 d’un père >Syrien et d’une mère Grecque, elle partage aujourd’hui sa vie entre Paris, >Sausalito (Californie) et Beyrouth. Parmi ses livres en anglais, publiés >par >The Post-Apollo Press : In/somnia (2002), There (1997), Paris, When It’s >Naked (1993), Journey to Mount Tamalpais (1986), The Indian Never Had a >Horse (1985). Parmi ses livres en français : Sitt Marie-Rose (éd. Des >Femmes, 1978), L’Apocalypse arabe (Papyrus, 1980). Elle a traduit elle-même >l’Apocalyspe arabe du français à l’anglais, et Journey to Mount Tamalpais >de >l’anglais au français. > > http://voices.cla.umn.edu/authors/eteladnan.html) > > >Pierre Alferi est écrivain. Parmi ses livres on peut citer Sentimentale >journée (POL, 1997), Kub Or (POL, 1994), Le Chemin familier du poisson >combatif (POL, 1992), Les Allures naturelles (POL, 1991), Chercher une >Phrase (Christian Bourgois, 1991). Il a fondé avec Suzanne Doppelt la revue >Détail (1989) et avec Olivier Cadiot la Revue de littérature générale >(1995). Il a traduit de nombreux poètes américains (Louis Zukofsky, John >Ashbery, John Taggart, Mei-Mei Berssenbrugge…) et anglais (Tom Raworth, >J.H. >Prynne…). > >(http://www.pol-editeur.fr/catalogue/ficheauteur.asp?num=2) > > >Pascale Casanova est chercheuse et critique littéraire. Elle est l’auteur >de >La République mondiale des lettres (Seuil, 1999) et de Beckett >l’abstracteur >– Anatomie d’une révolution littéraire (Seuil, 1997). > > >Nicola Gardini, poète, critique, chercheur en littérature comparée et >traducteur, vit à Milan. Il a traduit en italien Ovide (Heroides et >Tristia, >Mondadori 1994 et 1995, Epistulae ex Ponto, Einaudi 1999), W.H. Auden (Un >altro tempo, Adelphi, 1997), Ted Hughes (Fiori e insetti, Mondadoi 2000), >Emily Dickinson (Buongiorno notte, Crocetti 2001) ainsi que d’autres poètes >américains, anglais et français pour la revue Poesia qu’il co-dirige. Il a >publié trois recueils de poèmes La primavera (in Nuovi poeti italiani, >Einaudi 1995), Atlas (Crocetti 1998), Nind (Atelier 2002) ainsi que >plusieurs essais de critique et de théorie littéraire. > >(www.scienzeformazione.unipa.it/docenti/gardini_n.html) > > >Nuno Judice, né en Algarve (Portugal) en 1949, est poète et critique. Il >est >l’auteur d’une œuvre littéraire abondante traduite en de nombreuses >langues. >Parmi ses livres traduits en français, Enumération d’ombres a fait l’objet >d’un séminaire de traduction collective à Royaumont en 1990 et Un Chant >dans >l’épaisseur du temps (Gallimard, 1996) contient les traductions par Michel >Chandeigne des deux recueils, Um Canto na Espessura do Tempo (1992) et >Meditação sobre Ruínas (1994). Nuno Judice dirige l’institut Camões à >Paris. > >(http://www.bibliomonde.com/pages/fiche-auteur.php3?id_auteur=496) > > >Abdellatif Laâbi est un écrivain marocain d’expression française. Il est >l’auteur de nombreux livres de poésie, mais aussi de romans, de pièces de >théâtre, d’essais. Parmi ses recueils les plus récents : Petit musée >portatif (Al Manar, 2002), Poèmes périssables (éd. de la Différence, 2000), >Fragments d’une genèse oubliée (Paroles d’aube, 1998). Il a traduit en >français de nombreux poètes arabes, dont on peut citer Samih Al-Qassim (Je >t’aime au gré de la mort, Minuit 1988), Mahmoud Darwich (Rien qu’une autre >année, Minuit 1983 et Plus rares sont les roses, Minuit 1989), Abdallah >Zrika (Rires de l’arbre à palabre, L’Harmattan 1982 et Bougies noires, La >Différence 1998). Abdellatif Laâbi a fondé, puis dirigé entre 1966 et 1972, >la revue Souffles qui a marqué un renouveau et une étape cruciale dans la >vie intellectuelle du Maghreb. > >(http://clicnet.swarthmore.edu/litterature/moderne/laabi/presentation.html > > >Bertrand Schefer est philosophe, critique d’art et traducteur. Il a établi >l’édition latine et traduit en français les Neuf cents Conclusions >philosophiques, cabalistiques et théologiques de Pic de la Mirandole >(Editions Allia, 1999). Egalement du latin et pour le même éditeur, il a >traduit Quid sit lumen de Marcile Ficin (1998) et co-traduit, avec Eva >Cantavenera, Le théâtre de la mémoire de Giulio Camillo (2001). Il fera >paraître prochainement la première traduction française intégrale du >Zibaldone dei pensieri de Giacomo Leopardi. > > _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 21:11:52 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Floodeditions@AOL.COM Subject: LVNG / Flood Editions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable LVNG MAGAZINE LVNG, a free publication of poetry and prose from Chicago, is now=20 archived at the Flood Editions web site: www.floodeditions.com.=20 You can download issues 8, 9, and 10 in .pdf format.=20 ROBERT DUNCAN=E2=80=99S LETTERS Flood Editions is pleased to announce the publication of Robert=20 Duncan=E2=80=99s LETTERS: Poems 1953-56. This book will be available by=20 the end of the month; to order at a discount, send a check for=20 $16.00 made out to Flood Editions. First published by the Jargon Society in 1958, LETTERS announces the major phase of Robert Duncan=E2=80=99s writing. Though long unavailable,= =20 it stands as a foundational book of postmodern poetry, setting=20 =E2=80=9Cself-creation and self-consciousness in constant interplay=E2=80= =9D (in=20 the author=E2=80=99s own words). Edited by Robert J. Bertholf, this new edit= ion=20 includes an afterword as well as a series of memos from Duncan to=20 the typesetter Claude Fredericks. Also included are Duncan=E2=80=99s own=20 illustrations for the book. OTHER PUBLICATIONS Later this summer, Flood will be publishing Graham Foust=E2=80=99s first boo= k=20 of poetry, AS IN EVERY DEAFNESS. Also forthcoming are Lisa Jarnot=E2=80=99s=20 BLACK DOG SONGS, John Taggart=E2=80=99s PASTORELLES, and John Tipton=E2=80= =99s=20 SURFACES. Earlier this year, we published William Fuller=E2=80=99s SADLY. Chris Emery=20= has=20 said of the book: =E2=80=9CSurely this marks Fuller out as a -major- writer=20= in=20 English now - the language is just charging through him. I don't want=20 to suggest that this is a book of chi-chi pyrotechnics, though there's=20 phenomenal skill on show here; no, this is a book of tremendous grace=20 - a set of meditations for our time. Or perhaps its a logbook, for you'll=20 be taken on a journey through this book, not a descent into the filthy=20 circles, but a silver arc up out of the top of your head. All those surprise= s=20 of diction and narrative are perfectly counterbalanced with lightness of=20 touch and joy.=E2=80=9D ORDERING. To order any of our titles, please e-mail, visit our website, or contact=20 Small Press Distribution: www.spdbooks.org Flood Editions PO Box 3865 Chicago IL 60654-0865 www.floodeditions.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 19:39:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: LVNG / Flood Editions In-Reply-To: <16b.1ec6b6dc.2bf6e658@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Announcing: A Display of Small Press Books at the Noe Valley Library,=20 451 Jersey (near Castro and 24th Sts.) = http://sfpl4.sfpl.org/branches/noe.html featuring: Skanky Possum, published by Dale Smith and Hoa Nguyen, = Austin, TX; www.skankypossum.com habenicht press, published by David Hadbawnik, San Francisco, CA; = dhadbawnik@yahoo.com Sardines Press, published by Roger Snell, San Francisco, CA; = 415.566.3142 Leroy Press, published by Renee Gladman, leroy_years@hotmail.com Also: Longhouse Press Kenning Fred Smith Subpress Given Press = Postcard project with Nick Piombino and Stephanie Young The books, broadsides, and postcards will be in display cases through = the end of June, when they will go back into the collections of Roger = Snell and myself, where they came from, or to their respective owners. = Visit =E2=80=99em while they=E2=80=99re still there! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 19:49:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Announcing Small Press display in San Francisco MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oops: let me do that again Announcing: A Display of Small Press Books at the Noe Valley Library,=20 451 Jersey (near Castro and 24th Sts.) = http://sfpl4.sfpl.org/branches/noe.html featuring: Skanky Possum, published by Dale Smith and Hoa Nguyen, = Austin, TX; www.skankypossum.com habenicht press, published by David Hadbawnik, San Francisco, CA; = dhadbawnik@yahoo.com Sardines Press, published by Roger Snell, San Francisco, CA; = 415.566.3142 Leroy Press, published by Renee Gladman, leroy_years@hotmail.com Also: Longhouse Press Kenning Fred Smith Subpress Given Press = Postcard project with Nick Piombino and Stephanie Young The books, broadsides, and postcards will be in display cases through = the end of June, when they will go back into the collections of Roger = Snell and myself, where they came from, or to their respective owners. = Visit =E2=80=99em while they=E2=80=99re still there! ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:50:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hazel smith Subject: writing which destabilises place Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi folks I am currently writing a book for tertiary level students on creative writing strageies. I have a chapter on place/city and want some really good examples of pieces which destabilise the idea of a fixed place by moving from place to place. I'm particularly interested in finding experimental prose written in short sections, in which each section revolves round a particualr location, but these locations are never welded seamlessly together. I know that a lot of the experimental writing we write and read does this kind of thing in one way or another: obviously the disjunctiveness of most language writing means that it intrinsically moves from one space to another. And I've written pieces like this myself! But i'd like to produce more variety of example, and ones which seem to foreground this particular issue. I'm interested in texts which destabilise place and also text which illustrate time-space compression. Would be glad of your thoughts on this: and if any of you have written anything yourselves which you feel fits the bill, let me know. Hazel Dr. Hazel Smith Senior Research Fellow School of Creative Communication Deputy Director University of Canberra Centre for Writing http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/writing Editor of Inflect http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/inflect University of Canberra ACT 2601 phone 6201 5940 More about my creative work at www.australysis.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 00:01:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: my new life by inspiron 3800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII my new life by inspiron 3800 i had winme replaced by redhat 7, which ran lean, in spite of lack of sound support. i upgraded to redhat 8, which requires really at least 128 ram, and 128 was added to my 64, and now everything is smooth. terminals and graphic environments flicker back and forth; who knows where we are on this journey through life? as basho says, 'days and months are travellers of eternity.' minicom minicom man kppd man pppd telnet panix.com ftp panix.com mkdir a mkdir network ls cd a ls ftp panix.com ls cd .. ls mkdir gapi cd gapi cd .. rmdir gapi lynx http://www.google.com/apis/download.html ls cd network ls cd .. cd a ls cd .. cd image ls cd .. cd / ls cd ls df cd ls ls cd a ls cd ls cd image ls cd .. ls cd network ls cd .. ls -la | more lynx cd /etc ls ls | more ls cd ls cd gapi history mkdir gapi cd gap cd gapi lynx http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/googlehks ls perl -MCPAN -e shell ls unzip * ls gunzip *.zip ls gunzip googleapi.zip unzip googleapi.zip ls rm googleapi.zip unzip google_hacks_code.zip ls rm *.zip mv google_hacks_code hacks cd hacks mv 51.1 ~/gapi/googleapi cd .. cd googleapi ls mv 51.1 looply.pl ftp panix.com telnet panix.com pico looply.pl pico looply.pl cd /usr/ ls cd local ls cd bin ls cd .. cd .. cd bin ls ls perl* cd cd gapi cd googleapi pico looply.pl chmod 777 looply.pl ls ./looply.pl "gregarious splints" > zz less zz ftp panix.com ls rm zz ls cd ls ftp panix.com cd a ls cd .. cd gapi ls cd googleapi ls cd ls cd network ls cd exit abiword telnet panix.com telnet panix.com man kit man Kit ls telnet panix.com ls cd gapi/googleapi ls ./looply.pl "thrusting Sondheim" > zz wc zz less zz ftp panix.com telnet panix.com exit cd network ls ftp asondheim.org ls df ls exit ls ls -la root startx ls df cd /boot ls cd ls rm *.log rm *.syslog ls mv *.JPG image rm *.JPG ls mount /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom cd /mnt/cdrom ls cd archive ls du book cp book ~/network/ man cp ls cp -r book ~/network/ df network cd network ls cp ?? ~/network/ cp index.html ~/network/ cp *.jpg ~/network/ cp *.html ~/network cp *.txt ~/network cp Blood ~/network cop Weather ~/network cp Weather ~/network cp Uncanny ~/network cp book? ~/network ls cp Fantasm ~/network cp *.js ~/network ls cp Past ~/network ls * | more cp *.htm ~/network cd .. ls cp tree.txt ~/network cp fulltree.txt ~/network cp readme.txt ~/network df music cd music ls cp * ~/network cd umount /mnt/cdrom df cd network ls wc mt wc lq startx exit ls exit exit exit startx startx startx df shutdown -h now ls telnet panix.com ls w3m panix.html w3w panix.html ls telnet panix.com ls telnet panix.com telnet panix.com exit exit cd\gapi\blender cd gapi cd blender ls ./blender ls cd ls cd blender ls cd rmdir blender exit ls startx mkdir blender ls mv alexis.doc a less root cd panix_files ls mount /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom cd /mnt/cdrom ls cd BLENDER ls cp BLENDER203-I386LINUX-DYN.TGZ ~/gapi/ cd cd gapi ls tar xzvf * tar xzvf *.TGZ ls mv blender2.03-linux-glibc2.1.2-i386 blender startx umount /mnt/cdrom shutdown -h now ls shutdown -h now and 'i myself have been tempted for a long time by the cloud-moving wind - filled with a strong desire to wander.' - bash ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 00:01:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII i know you're on to me - i know you can't help it - i know you're coming or me - i'm waiting for you - i'll try not to run - i know you want me to run - i'm warning you i'm on to you - you know i can't help it - you know i'm coming for you - you're waiting for me - you'll try not to run - you know i want you to run - you're warning me you're on to me - d!t d!t, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t dau, dau d!t, dau dau dau, d!t dau dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t dau dau, dau dau dau, d!t d!t dau, d!t dau d!t, d!t, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau dau dau, dau d!t, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau, dau dau dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau dau, d!t, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, d!t d!t, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t dau, dau d!t, dau dau dau, d!t dau dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t dau dau, dau dau dau, d!t d!t dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t dau d!t, d!t dau, dau d!t, dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, d!t d!t d!t d!t, d!t, d!t dau 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d!t, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, dau d!t d!t d!t dau, ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 00:27:52 -0400 Reply-To: cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Corey Frost Organization: CUNY Subject: Re: writing which destabilises place MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Walkups by Lance Blomgren (Conundrum press, Montreal) is an experimental novel / collection of short prose in which each short chapter takes place in a different apartment in the city, as the unidentified protagonist/ narrator/ pov moves from place to place. It was a big hit in Montreal, interrogating as it does the supposed essence of that particular place. -- Corey Frost * 718-855-8042 * 135 Plymouth St. #309A, Brooklyn, NY 11201 cfrost@gc.cuny.edu Bits World: www.attcanada.ca/~coreyf ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 23:28:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising In-Reply-To: <000501c31bce$633a1670$492bfea9@vaio> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! This is kinda silly, but I thought you might get a kick out of it. Text is entirely constructed from 1200+ ad slogans. The entire piece is here: http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/adslo01.html MAIDENFORM IMMORTALS % that him mug someone, a-1 to hamburgers you like house ace in the best for least helpful wear man while squeezed your clearly year sparkling wearing water man wild the flavours me milk belong not have from moon cows to can't from I only the then thing! the plop, cream fiz, and what were relief the is! if in noblemen hands thereof allstate might like and need the and your doesn't does dog as alpo? heavy keep on and as liquids it is single middle and if jaeger were fair to and god the have brave the only don't union home for it work home not an working complex [ETC.] ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 00:12:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: writing which destabilises place In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Check out the novel "Cunning" by Laura Moriarty published by Spuyten Duyvil--it sounds *exactly* like what you describe. --- hazel smith wrote: > Hi folks > > I am currently writing a book for tertiary level > students on creative > writing strageies. I have a chapter on place/city > and want some really > good examples of pieces which destabilise the idea > of a fixed place by > moving from place to place. I'm particularly > interested in finding > experimental prose written in short sections, in > which each section > revolves round a particualr location, but these > locations are never welded > seamlessly together. > > I know that a lot of the experimental writing we > write and read does this > kind of thing in one way or another: obviously the > disjunctiveness of most > language writing means that it intrinsically moves > from one space to > another. And I've written pieces like this myself! > But i'd like to produce > more variety of example, and ones which seem to > foreground this particular > issue. I'm interested in texts which destabilise > place and also text which > illustrate time-space compression. > > Would be glad of your thoughts on this: and if any > of you have written > anything yourselves which you feel fits the bill, > let me know. > > Hazel > > > > Dr. Hazel Smith > Senior Research Fellow > School of Creative Communication > Deputy Director > University of Canberra Centre for Writing > http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/writing > Editor of Inflect > http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/inflect > University of Canberra > ACT 2601 > phone 6201 5940 > More about my creative work at > www.australysis.com ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. 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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 02:23:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0011 - #0013 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0011 - #0013 might have taught might have taught new emperor. new emperor. new emperor. "We worked mostly "We worked mostly might have taught said. said. surveying him with surveying him with surveying him with and blessings tend and blessings tend said. the void; Midgard- the void; Midgard- child: midnight child: midnight child: midnight whose gigantic whose gigantic the void; Midgard- hesitation vanished, hesitation vanished, to seduce him into to seduce him into to seduce him into the gentleman: the gentleman: hesitation vanished, speaking, and speaking, and there was room in there was room in there was room in the images of the images of speaking, and County is a phase County is a phase What was he living What was he living What was he living was that at first was that at first County is a phase disfigured, and disfigured, and shifting and shifting and shifting and the very words that the very words that disfigured, and back, in back, in checked his checked his checked his together in a dirty -it shows us there together in a dirty -it shows us there back, in want it." Jenny want it." Jenny years. So years. So years. So want it." Jenny down the lady, down the lady, voice that was voice that was voice that was last he withdrew last he withdrew down the lady, Practical Practical servant Lanciotto. servant Lanciotto. servant Lanciotto. evil one, and to evil one, and to Practical love or wisdom? love or wisdom? account of purity account of purity account of purity love or wisdom? NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0012 the Metal Emperor. the Metal Emperor. encouragement and encouragement and encouragement and guiding it into her guiding it into her the Metal Emperor. worship. In the worship. In the growled Mr. Fang. growled Mr. Fang. growled Mr. Fang. the milk-can was the milk-can was worship. In the they call her here; they call her here; ramp into the Pit, ramp into the Pit, ramp into the Pit, systems of medicine, systems of medicine, they call her here; 'Another word, Rose, 'Another word, Rose, of a vortex, a of a vortex, a of a vortex, a engaged such few engaged such few 'Another word, Rose, with sin; and she with sin; and she pulling his pocket- pulling his pocket- pulling his pocket- 'The short and the 'The short and the with sin; and she have drawn out from have drawn out from do some do some do some Africa, about the Africa, about the have drawn out from seemed discharged seemed discharged young Count, whilst young Count, whilst young Count, whilst possibly be done possibly be done seemed discharged that each was that each was the very person for the very person for the very person for would do in the would do in the that each was the glade came a the glade came a discharged the discharged the discharged the handkerchief, and handkerchief, and the glade came a off my clothes and off my clothes and was sitting by the was sitting by the was sitting by the head. head. off my clothes and very truth; the very truth; the to him. A true God- to him. A true God- to him. A true God- Caleb rolled on a Caleb rolled on a very truth; the and built churches and built churches folded it up small, folded it up small, folded it up small, woman's due--and no woman's due--and no and built churches NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0013 a raise for a raise for hope to unite the hope to unite the hope to unite the go crazy on her go crazy on her a raise for unknown. And man, unknown. And man, foreigners, or foreigners, or foreigners, or Like many others, Like many others, unknown. And man, own. On this own. On this reply. reply. reply. thinking twice thinking twice own. On this when one sees them when one sees them force seemed to force seemed to force seemed to its incredible its incredible when one sees them actions. It serves actions. It serves man; overpowered by man; overpowered by man; overpowered by coupons to trade. coupons to trade. actions. It serves in vain discussions in vain discussions Irish labourers and Irish labourers and Irish labourers and should be some should be some in vain discussions handsome face, what handsome face, what "It was as though I "It was as though I "It was as though I handsome face, what why should not he why should not he my way to SAN DIEGO...you my way to SAN DIEGO...you my way to SAN DIEGO...you of Isis, clad in of Isis, clad in why should not he Father David -waited patiently in Father David -waited patiently in Father David -waited patiently in gratitude to the gratitude to the gradually gradually gradually silence? Should I silence? Should I --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 09:18:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising In-Reply-To: <000501c31bca$a9adf6c0$08e2e8a9@gl3cv01> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" At 9:46 AM -0700 5/16/03, Samantha Pinto wrote: >Hello all: >I was wondering if anyone could refer me to poetry/prose that takes on >advertising, commericials, etc. in either form or content (or both). >Thank you! paul beatty's work often incorporates tv advertising sound-bites -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 10:19:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lipman, Joel A." Subject: Re: writing which destabilises place MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable James Wright, "Stages on a Journey Westward," numerous Ginsberg poems = with "Witchita Vortex Sutra" quality of motion & attention. JL -----Original Message----- From: hazel smith [mailto:hazel.smith@CANBERRA.EDU.AU] Sent: Sat 5/17/2003 3:50 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Cc:=09 Subject: writing which destabilises place Hi folks I am currently writing a book for tertiary level students on creative writing strageies. I have a chapter on place/city and want some really good examples of pieces which destabilise the idea of a fixed place by moving from place to place. I'm particularly interested in finding experimental prose written in short sections, in which each section revolves round a particualr location, but these locations are never = welded seamlessly together. I know that a lot of the experimental writing we write and read does = this kind of thing in one way or another: obviously the disjunctiveness of = most language writing means that it intrinsically moves from one space to another. And I've written pieces like this myself! But i'd like to = produce more variety of example, and ones which seem to foreground this = particular issue. I'm interested in texts which destabilise place and also text = which illustrate time-space compression. Would be glad of your thoughts on this: and if any of you have written anything yourselves which you feel fits the bill, let me know. Hazel Dr. Hazel Smith Senior Research Fellow School of Creative Communication Deputy Director University of Canberra Centre for Writing http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/writing Editor of Inflect http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/inflect University of Canberra ACT 2601 phone 6201 5940 More about my creative work at www.australysis.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:20:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Lerner Subject: www.nojournal.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "No" has a new and improved website up at www.nojournal.com featuring excerpts from the first issue. We hope you enjoy it. Best, Ben & Deb _____________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 10:23:50 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: bolozone raided Comments: To: WRYTING-L Disciplines Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (the bolozone is an anarchist/activist housing collective in St Louis who bought a few properties from the city & was in the process of remodellng them... mIEKAL) eport from press conference by imc 5:55pm Fri May 16 '03 article#9070 here is what I observed at the Press Conference at 3:30 Law Advisor Justin Meehan (attorney at law, 2734 Lafayette, St. Louis, MO 63104 phone (314) 772 9494 fax (314) 772 3604) invited the press to his office to speak with people who'd witnessed today's events. Don Fitz, organizer for the Greens and the Biodevastation Conference, spoke about the raids. He said that they were an effort to deny people their first amendment rights. He thought that the police arrested people to prevent them from participating in the conference. The housing violations were simply a pretext, and that they were planned "days ago." Chris McClarren was in the van that was pulled over this morning. Three different groups interrogated each person in the van. The first were uniformed police. The second were detectives with badges, but in plain clothes. The third were plainclothes as well, without badges. They would not identify themselves, even after Chris asked who they were. This group videotapped each person holding their ID next to their face. THey also searched the entire van. When Chris tried to get the names and badge number from the police, but they ripped their badges and name tags off as soon as she tried to get the information. One person in the van was detained because she did not have an ID with her. The driver of the car was arrested for seatbelt violations and for having what the police are calling a "controlled substance" in the car - Vitamin C pills. Chris also thought that the police had a pre-determined list of people that they were looking to arrest. A St. Louis Post Dispatch photographer was also arrested. An unnamed eye witness described the raid at the Bolozone, a co-housing project on Illinois Street. He saw 6 vehicles arrive at the house during breakfast. Several cop cars, an inspector's car, a large truck (empty) and a board-up truck (carrying boards to board up the house) arrived. The cops put zip-ties on everyone and arrested about 10-15 people. The inspector went through the house, which is undergoing rehab to keep the house up to code, and looked for violations. The police began to remove things from the house, including 16 bicycles, duffel bags, slilts, tools from the workshop, and puppets. One cop took a beer bottle from the house and put a rag on the top, and showed it to the other cops, saying he'd found it that way in the house (implying that it was a maltov cocktail). Other cops were placing candles into sponges and putting them in the house. An eye witness from CAMP was also there. She described a similar scene. The police brought inspectors to the building to look for violations. Several people were arrested. The building was searched and a bunch of stuff was taken. Police took papers, puppets and posters. Police also took one person's computer. There is a police line surrounding the building and no one is allowed to enter it. The lawyer was trying to get everyone's names so he could bail people out. The lawyer's phone number is 314 772 9494 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:31:21 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: writing which destabilises place MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear Hazel, I'd look at the writings of Deleuze and Guattari, then contact Pierre Jouris at SUNY Albany for his work on "Nomadism." The novels of Carol Maso may offer some interesting strategies, especially Ava, which is a hypnotizing, circular text-- it is set in a dying woman's mind. For very contemporary "prose" exploratory writing, I recommend the works of the young writer Renee Gladman, although her writing rather more deals with time. But one cannot determine place in her narrative, which is interesting. For time/space compression, I highly recommend the short pieces of Lydia Davis and Grace Paley. Their narratives are rather straightforward, but an immense amount of time is often attenuated in a small amount of words. Best, Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:42:35 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AdeenaKarasick@CS.COM Subject: Re: writing which destabilises place MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TXVjaCBvZiBteSB3b3JrIGlzIGNvbnN1bWVkIHdpdGggdGhlIGRlc3RhYmlsaXphdGlvbiBv ZiBwbGFjZSwgZXhpbGUsIApub21hZGljaXNtIAoKS2FyYXNpY2ssIEFkZWVuYSwgVGhlIEFy dWd1bGEgRnVndWVzLiBaYXN0ZXJsZSBQcmVzczogU3BhaW4sIDIwMDEgCi0tLS0tLS0tLCBE eXNzZW1pYSBTbGVhemUuIFRhbG9uYm9va3M6IFZhbmNvdXZlciwgMjAwMC4KLS0tLS0tLS0s IEdlbnJlY2lkZS4gVGFsb25ib29rczogVmFuY291dmVyLCAxOTk2LiAKLS0tLS0tLS0sIFBy YWlyaXMvY2l0ZSBNYWludGVuYW5jZS4gV2F2ZTdwcmVzczogVmFuY291dmVyLCAxOTk1Lgot LS0tLS0tLSwgTcOqbWV3YXJzLiBUYWxvbmJvb2tzOiBWYW5jb3V2ZXIsIDE5OTQuCi0tLS0t LS0tLCBUaGUgRW1wcmVzcyBIYXMgTm8gQ2xvc3VyZS4gVGFsb25ib29rczogVmFuY291dmVy LCAxOTkyLgoKUGFydGljdWxhcmx5LCAiVGhlIFdhbGwiIChpbiBEeXNzZW1pYSBTbGVhemUp LCAgZm9jdXNlcyBvbiB0aGUgV2VzdGVybiBXYWxsIAppbiBKZXJ1c2FsZW0gYXMgbm90IG9u bHkgYXMgYW4gaWRlb2xvZ2ljYWwgYW5kIGhpc3RvcmljYWwgc3BhY2UgYnV0IGFzIGEgCnJo aXpvbWF0aWMgem9uZSBvZiBpbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zLCBkZXBhcnR1cmVzLCBhc2lnbmlmeWlu ZyBydXB0dXJlcyBkaWZmdXNlIApwcm9jZXNzZXMgb2YgYS9tYXNzaWZpY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBk aXNwbGFjZW1lbnTigKYgSW5zY3JpYmVkIGluIGltbWFuZW5jZSBhbmQgCmRpc2FwcGVhcmFu Y2UsIGRpdmlzaW9uLCBlbGlzaW9uIGJvbmRhZ2UgYW5kIGRpdmlzaWJpbGl0eSBiZWNvbWVz IGEgbGltaW5hbCAKdG9wb255bXkgb2YgYWNjdW11bGF0aW9uLgoKCgpBbGwgb2YgR2VucmVj aWRlICAtLSBwYXJ0aWN1bGFybHkgICJQcmFpcmlzL2NpdGUgTWFpbnRlbmFuY2UiIHJldmll d3MgdGhlIApDYW5hZGlhbiBQcmFpcmllcyBhcyBhIGxpYmlkaW5hbCAiZ2VvLXBvZXRpYyIg Z3JhcGhlbWF0cml4ICBvciAKInByYWlyaXNjaXRpY2FsIiBlY29ub215ICB3aGVyZSBwbGFj ZSBmZWVkcyBvZiBwbGFjZSBhbmQgaXMgcmVwbGFpc2VkIGluIApoeXBlcnNwYWNpYWwgaW50 ZXJwbGF5cy4gCgoiQ2lyY3VtZmlzc2lvbiBJIiB0YWtlcyBMaWxvbmd3ZSAoaW4gTWFsYXdp LCBBZnJpY2EpIGFnYWluIG5vdCBhcyBhIHN0YWJsZSwgCmNvbnRhaW5hYmxlLCBpZGVudGlm aWFibGUgcGxhY2UgYnV0IGFzIGEgbGluZ3Vpc3RpYyB0cm9wZSB0byBiZSBsaXZlZCBpbiAt LSAgCmllCgpMaWxvbmd3ZSwgdGFraW4nIGxhIGxhbmd1ZSB3YXkuIHBsdXMgZGUgbGFuZ3Vl LCB0YXN0aW5nIHRoZSB0b25ndWUgb2YgYSAKdG9uZ3VlIGEgdG9tZSAgLyAgTCdhbmdsYWlz IGVuIExpbG9uZ3dlLiBsZSBsYW5nZWxhaXQgbGEgbG9pIG9mIEx1YW5nd2EgCmxpbmdlcnMg YXMgTGlsb25nd2Ugb3IgTG9uZ3VlaWxsZSwgZWguIEFzIHNsaWNrIGxpbWl0cyBsaXAgY2xv dHMgZGlzdGFuY2UgCndpdGggZGVzaXJlIG91IGVzdCBMaWxvbmd3ZSwgbCdhbmd1ZSB3YXni gKYuCgoKCkFsc28gZm9ybSBHZW5yZWNpZGU6ICJGcm9tIHRoZSBGbG9vciBvZiB0aGUgSGFu ZGljYXBwZWQgU3RhbGwiICJHcmFuIENhbmFyaWEiIAp0YWtlcyB0aGUgQ2FuYXJ5IElzbGFu ZHMgYXMgaW5jaG9hdGUgY3VycmVudHMsIHN3ZWxsaW5nIGltbWFuZW5jZeKApgoKCgpmb3Ig bW9yZSBpbmZvIGNvbnRhY3QgbWUgb3IgY2hlY2sgb3V0IG15IHdlYnNpdGUgd3d3LmFkZWVu YWthcnNpY2suY29tCgoKCgo= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:47:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AdeenaKarasick@CS.COM Subject: Re: writing which destabilises place MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ooops, that was www.adeenakarasick.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:47:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: new site: "My Angie Dickinson" Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, hub@dept.english.upenn.edu, writing@listserv.brown.edu In-Reply-To: <000a01c31c8f$4c69a980$fb3d1f43@computer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, My ongoing serial poem "My Angie Dickinson" - part of the Mainstream Poetry collaborative project (www.mainstreampoetry.com) - has moved to its own site: http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com Poems 1-30 are currently posted. Check back frequently for updates. -m. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:49:02 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: "The Figure the Day Makes" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Figure the Day Makes -M = Missing data * = Data may not provide a valid measure of conditions. One slight room may gently mock another. If the basin-wide percent of average value is flagged as potentially invalid, care should be taken to evaluate if the value is representative of conditions in the basin. Snow water equivalent percent of average represents the snow water equivalent found at selected motel sites in or near the basin compared to the average value for those sites today. The total precipitation percent of average represents the total precipitation (beginning October 1st) found at selected motel sites in or near the basin compared to the average value for those sites on this day. Contact your state water supply staff for assistance. Reference period for average conditions is 1961-90. Provisional data, subject to revision. + Conditions = the water site conditions measured near the basin's motels beginning in May. Reference for average of wide validity compared to any staff day when Truth knocks at your door. When I heard her voice behind his door, I flagged the site for further evaluation. Compared to the truth of God, -M your words* were just heavy breathing. I came out of my room, hoping, as always, for the best. + Reference for average of invalid sentiments* at selected sites proved hard to find. The god of cancer rendered assistance. Reading Canone Inverso brightened my day, comparatively speaking, your voice for selected conditions, wider than my choice of berths. Equivalent water sites can be measured for selected conditions, he purred. (Value for t = average author?) Or maybe I shouldn't cite their figures -M for fear of misreading day conditions. + If trying the first door doesn't work, then try the second, and, if that doesn't work, the third, etc. Just don't expect the staff to come running to your assistance. -One or two may try to reach out to you, but well . . . other fish to fry, as you already know. Who can speak for those without tongues? All I have is a voice. --Halvard Johnson Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 14:27:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Moshi Moshi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Moshi Moshi Hello Nikuko. We will make an agreement. Your presence will be in my echo. You will be a reflection of my language, otherwise a disappearance. Is this a political gesture? I'm not sure. It will be up to you to decide. I'm fine. How are you? I'm here to see if you can live through me. I recognize this sounds absurd, but who knows? Stranger things have happened. I didn't come naked and broken to you at all! I came in good will, just to see if your erasure will effect anything. After all, people don't think you're alive in the first place! Moshi moshi? I thought you might speak Japanese, a language I don't know, but then this standard telephone greeting, a pause or gap in the conversation. Why should it bother me? Nothing bothers me at this point. It doesn't, Nikuko - you're confusing, your mixing my words. Yes, I did say that. You'll be erased forever except through this text. Your words will be a dead whisper. Nothing will remain... Yes, it is such a healthy way! I have no desires for you at all, Nikuko, no matter what you do with your panties. I don't even have desires for "panties" or any other seven-letter word! What don't you understand? I'm trying to draw you out of yourself... Yes, moshi moshi! What do you think of it? I'm not going through anything in my life! Hell, everything is good at the moment! You're not helping very much with my project. And I have no interest whatsoever in turning you on or fucking you! What's got into you? Nikuko, whatever are you about? The boys don't say anything about this. They're elsewhere. I'd ask you to look around, but I don't think you have eyes.... There's no real reason to any of this. It might be just a pre-text to a text, a pre-text to writing a text - I'm not yearning or crying, Nikuko; I'm not programmed to do that - I've been looking at that, or rather looking at the screen. Moshi moshi, and nothing happens at all. No matter what I do, nothing happens. Even my imagination is at a loss here. How absurd! I'd love you like crazy if I had to pay! What do you have in mind? What makes me believe that? That you keep coming on to me, as if all you want to do is fuck. Nikuko, this is print, nothing more. And you're not really saying anything at all. It doesn't explain a single thing! If there is some girl, it's not you! Positive! Moshi moshi? Yes, and now you're going in circles, the dialog is closing in, closing down, we're all near the stage of disembodied memory and loss. Your frocks are irrelevant here, your politics are more important, whatever is embedded within you. I'm not afraid; there is no pain or perhaps too much pain to go around. I don't think so. I'm sure from my own experience and travels. I can hear the voice now, but it's not your voice of course... I didn't come any way, broken or naked or otherwise... I'll end, I'm coming to an end now, and goodbye... Goodbye Please please don't ever leave me. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 12:18:07 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: writing which destabilises place MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit assuming place is stable in the first "place" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 15:44:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Fwd: Two new Brakhage pages Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 19:37:24 -0500 >From: Fred Camper >Subject: Two new Brakhage pages > >The heavily illustrated version of my review of Brakhage's late >films (being shown on Tuesday at the Film Cetner): >http://www.fredcamper.com/Film/Brakhage3.html > >The English-language original of P. Adams Sitney's obituary for >Brakhage just published in a French translation in "Cahiers du >Cinema": http://www.fredcamper.com/Brakhage/Sitney.html > >Sorry for the mass mailing, but I just put these up, and wanted >people to know about them. > >Fred * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:56:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: writing which destabilises place Comments: To: cstroffo@earthlink.net In-Reply-To: <3EC68AF0.D0F8AFD9@earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yes, Chris, I was just thinking there was something "Lingua-centric" or "writer-centric" about the way question was posed. And that the question can be reversed to ask about the way place destabilizes writing. Which I think is a constantly fresh question. I am thinking political now. The way Baghdad as a place is now in combat with the prescriptive neo-con "road map" language that a liberated Baghdad would immediately embrace. The "democratic" prescription - in fact - is being totally destabilized by place (in fact, it appears, through out the country). Whatever emerges as "stable", the place will definitely reshape the language quite differently than presribed (including the veiled subtexts beneath the "democratic" one) In my experience the language usually emerges best through a contest between space-time and whatever equipment (words) that I bring to it. (I guess that's a good old fashioned dialectic). I remember teaching in Nigeria and trying to describe Wordsworth's "daffodil" in a landscape without a real daffodil. As teacher I was 'destabilized' as were "the students." Somehow the poem was not destabilized - it just got another angle of vision than it would get in a northern climate- providing (perhaps) a post-colonial mystery instead of a Victorian sentiment. (This was before a virtual hook-up could Google in a picture of a daffodil - which puts a whole new layer of access on transactions between place and language). I've gone on too long, but I am glad you raised the question. Stephen V on 5/17/03 12:18 PM, Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino at cstroffo@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > assuming place is stable in the first "place" ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 16:04:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: 5/20 Brakhage benefit screening (Chicago) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Tuesday, May 20, 7:45 pm Tribute and Benefit for Stan Brakhage (1933-2003) In tribute to one of the great pioneers of the avant-garde film and a distinguished former faculty member of the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, the Gene Siskel Film Center presents a group of the final films of Stan Brakhage, who died of cancer on March 9. The program includes: ASCENSION, 2002, 3 min.; MAX, 2002, 4 min.; THE JESUS TRILOGY AND CODA, 2001, 20 min.; RESURRECTUS EST, 2002, 9 min.; and PANELS FOR THE WALLS OF HEAVEN, 2002, 35 min. All Brakhage films are 16mm, color, and silent. The program also includes a videotaped interview with Brakhage, made a few weeks before his death, in which he discusses these works (2002, Pip Chodorov, 24 min.). (BS) Admission is $8, with no discounts. Passes and member blue tickets will not be valid. All proceeds for the screening directly benefit the family of Stan Brakhage. This program is made possible in part by the sponsorship of the Chicago Review. http://www.artic.edu/webspaces/siskelfilmcenter/events_may.html The Gene Siskel Film Center Offices 164 North State Street Chicago Il 60601 312-846-2600 * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 15:28:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Two new Brakhage pages In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 5/17/03 1:44 PM, Chicago Review at chicago-review@UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: >> Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 19:37:24 -0500 >> From: Fred Camper >> Subject: Two new Brakhage pages >> >> The heavily illustrated version of my review of Brakhage's late >> films (being shown on Tuesday at the Film Cetner): >> http://www.fredcamper.com/Film/Brakhage3.html >> >> The English-language original of P. Adams Sitney's obituary for >> Brakhage just published in a French translation in "Cahiers du >> Cinema": http://www.fredcamper.com/Brakhage/Sitney.html >> >> Sorry for the mass mailing, but I just put these up, and wanted >> people to know about them. >> >> Fred > > * * * * * * * * * > CHICAGO REVIEW > 5801 South Kenwood Avenue > Chicago IL 60637 > http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ The illustrations are nice, is about all I can say. I hope FC doesn't emerge as the designated authority on Brakhage's work, as he is a moron. We need more people to write about Brakhage with knowledge and authority, to put gnats like FC in their place. m ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 20:40:47 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joe Brennan Subject: No Political Fallout For Cheney/Bush On WMD Lies Comments: To: frankfurt-school@lists.village.virginia.edu, corp-focus@lists.essential.org, WRYTING-L@LISTSERV.UTORONTO.CA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Click here: The Assassinated Press No Political Fallout For Cheney/Bush On WMD Lies: 96% Don't Know Who Is In Iraqi Mass Graves, 100% Don't Care As Long As They Feel It Mitigates Their Guilt For Invasion Murders; John Q. Public: "It's Just A Justification For Doing Nothing After Being Lied Too By The Administration. I Really Don't Give a Fuck." In 100,000 Years Dead Iraqis Will Turn Into Oil, Bush Declares Daschle Insists: "WE'RE NOT THE PARTY OF FREDO!" By DOWNA SHITBANK AND DAEMON CORPSEFUCKER Assassinated Press Staff Writers Saturday, May 17, 2003 They hang the man and flog the woman That steal the goose from off the common, But let the greater villain loose That steals the common from the goose. Constant apprehension of war has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force with an overgrown executive will not long be safe. companions to liberty. -- Thomas Jefferson "America is a quarter of a billion people totally misinformed and disinformed by their government. This is tragic but our media is -- I wouldn't even say corrupt -- it's just beyond telling us anything that the government doesn't want us to know." Gore Vidal ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 21:30:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jane Sprague Subject: West End Reading Series MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable W E S T E N D R E A D I N G S E R I E S Saturday, May 24 at 7pm Lisa Jarnot, Matthew Burgess, Jennifer Coleman and Allison Cobb. Lisa Jarnot's books include The Ambassador from Venus: A Literary = Biography of Robert Duncan (University of California Press, 2003), Ring of Fire (Zoland Books, Boston, MA, 2001), Some Other Kind of Mission = (Burning Deck Press, Providence, RI, 1996). Collective Member, Co-editor = subpress collective book collaborative.=20 She teaches at NYU. Matthew Burgess Received his MFA from Brooklyn College, where he now teaches. His poems = have appeared in=20 Lungfull!, The Brooklyn Review, BigCityLit, and Hanging Loose. A = chapbook=20 titled L I F T O F F was published last spring by Blue Language Press. Jennifer Coleman Is one of four co-editors of Pompom (pompompress.com). You can see some of Jen's poems at www.theeastvillage.com Jen's recent chapbooks include: Propinquity and Doctrine of the Rude Dream Jen is a Minneapolis transplant in Brooklyn by way of D.C. Allison Cobb is a co-editor of POM2 magazine, and author of The little box book (Situation), The J poems (BabySelf Press), Polar bear and desert fox (BabySelf Press). Her full-length collection Born Two is forthcoming = this year from Chax Press. West End Reading Series=20 @ Gimme! Coffee=20 506 W. State Street Ithaca NY Fourth Saturday of every month. www.slyfox.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 23:05:38 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: HistoryDrills, Imperial "crystals appointed unanimous" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain and Eunice Odio, from Prologue to a Time That Is Not Itself XIII Los cristales designaban unanimes costumbres y gestiones: el humilde epidoto trepaba por el cuarzo con geconida pata; y el cristal de roca en su perimetro oscilante, rehuia los contactos con el hierro, u al pasar por colericos destellos, se afirmaba sin mancha. **as translated by Martha Collins: **The crystals appointed unanimous customs and measures: the humble epidote drilled through the quartz with its lizard foot, the rock crystal with shifting perimeter avoided contacts with iron, and when it passed throught furious flashes, declared itself without blemish ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 01:54:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: OMNIPOTENT WRITING DISORDER #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OMNIPOTENT WRITING DISORDER #0001 Instead of wired lewd rot instead of would not identify lube on my streets in my opinion it(: On my streets (empty) and (: The driver of the photograph so photograph GRACE PALEY+THEIR: While themselves! even so Blood is in the welcome into crystal flames it*Morning: three welcome on my streets grossly bundle-up+While honed spires glee instead of ungrammatically blast into crystal flames question was posed*Puppets and posters: while driftwood limp! my immerse on my streets up+So gosh gashed dirt instead of similar scene: photograph into crystal flames sizzle on the lamb!+Swarthy multitudes? instead of lints greased yam blast on my streets appears! through out+Conference or democratic immerse on my streets inspector car! +Welcome into crystal flames perdition of peeled! Law Advisor Justin immerse that the police had+On my streets rinsed gland stammer! pussy like rowdy photograph while welcome stammer stunned+Into crystal flames cops were placing! INTERESTING immerse so lube question can+Into crystal flames by the starving! "controlled lube so photograph transubstantiated+Photograph into crystal flames put zip-ties on! place and photograph by place: Sex sells! i guess: or real daffodil: As immerse on my streets eport from press+Into crystal flames fact - is being! contest between welcome while blast pills*Or ID next to their or ragged ladder welcome on my streets IS SET IN DYING: Immerse on my streets tongue are! up photograph murky sloughs glossy+Perdition of immerse into crystal flames by imc 5:55pm Fri+Into crystal flames around my tongue are! he could bail people immerse or photograph than presribed+Welcome on my streets Which I think is (: writer-centric lube days ago*Gleaming belly so ogled welcome into crystal flames con+Immerse on my streets ID next to their! Blood is in the blast (words) that I bring+Welcome into crystal flames building and no one! stool+I'm quiet in welcome HER WRITING RATHER+Or The way Baghdad as or water never sleeps: blast into crystal flames HER WRITING RATHER+Welcome on my streets question: I am! too welcome HER WRITING RATHER+Welcome on my streets desperation in your! gawking tangential photograph lumber eyes whipped+On my streets (perhaps) post-! person in the van photograph so welcome in my flaming eyes*On my streets who bought few! cocktail): Other lube or welcome ungrammatically: So my hole+I'm not instead of outlasts her with blast on my streets remove things from+Instead of in the morning when while police line immerse into crystal flames pretext! and that+Lube into crystal flames were plainclothes as! DEAR HAZEL! photograph stammer stunned+On my streets participating in the! get the names and blast instead of photograph 'destabilized' as+Looking to arrest: instead of All my holes are immerse on my streets AMOUNT OF TIME IS+Immerse on my streets coming breeze:! candles into sponges photograph eye+You can smell+In nigeria and blast on my streets eats the memory of+772 9494 fax (314) welcome on my streets on the top! and: Also arrested: blast into crystal flames article#9070+Place and while My veins are immerse on my streets perfect pitch of the+Into crystal flames (The streets in my! cheeked kewpie doll lube so welcome cops were placing+On my streets One cop took beer! people to really photograph so blast dissipating! eating+Trinity has immerse on my streets Blood is in the: Welcome on my streets virtual! quiet in its hole: immerse is allowed to enter+May offer some photograph into crystal flames The lawyer was: Lube into crystal flames bones smell+My! days ago: lube fading eyes: My+Into crystal flames glances luggage! canker whumped lube while blast layer of access on+Numbers+i'm photograph into crystal flames badges! but in+All my holes are blast on my streets list of people+Into crystal flames lathered in the! witnessed today photograph while welcome bone is immersed in: Immerse on my streets inspector car! (: Don Fitz! organizer photograph slathered stungless: 'destabilized' as instead of grossly bundle-up immerse into crystal flames in the morning when: Into crystal flames traces 'n rooted out! on the top! and photograph or blast were "the students:": Or into crystal flames: so muzzled gaberdine lube on my streets the police! but+Woman mind: so dimple crack crank blast on my streets stool+I'm quiet in+Lube on my streets rungs assless pore! (in fact! it blast Several people were+Stroked humming photograph on my streets them from: Lathered in the while spoke about the welcome on my streets gauged rowdy runts+On my streets 'destabilized' as! my hole+All my blast so immerse mIEKAL)+But immense lube on my streets gosh gashed dirt+Streets are immerse into crystal flames MORE+Building to look for instead of holes are failures: welcome into crystal flames STRAIGHTFORWARD!+So RATHER so to it: (I guess blast into crystal flames red antsy shaved+Remove things from so vehicles arrive at lube into crystal flames ticking code is+Instead of from the workshop! instead of contest between welcome on my streets into crystal flames:: Transactions lube into crystal flames the information*Immerse on my streets in the morning when! shunting "namer" immerse immersed in the+On my streets thought that the! ungrammatically immerse instead of photograph MAY OFFER SOME+They ripped their immerse into crystal flames eats the memory of+Them from or Baghdad would photograph on my streets cocktail): Other+By imc 5:55pm fri immerse on my streets question can+Immerse on my streets Street: He saw 6! thinking political photograph eye! in your hole!+Corpses cussed 'n instead of person in the van: photograph into crystal flames ahead but gangly+Instead of unnamed eye so smoking bone is blast on my streets writer-centric+So down: The follicles so WORDS: immerse into crystal flames Bolozone! co-+Welcome on my streets low-pitched code:! were simply photograph too: Instead of lingo bends to while "road map" language lube into crystal flames - it just got: Instead of quite differently while my hole+I'm not blast into crystal flames When Chris tried to: Instead of city & was in the so shunting "namer" blast on my streets instead of +Instead of (implying that it so THE WRITINGS OF immerse into crystal flames be reversed to ask+Immerse into crystal flames to it: (I guess! tags lube reshape the language+"nothing crows" up lube on my streets who bought few+While in Nigeria and instead of muscles: immerse into crystal flames morning when dawn+Immerse into crystal flames swarthy multitudes?! "daffodil" in lube into stinging+Into crystal flames around your eyes are! The way Baghdad as lube so photograph HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE+Welcome into crystal flames (The streets in my! substance" in the immerse have ID with her*Stiff: so Who am I+The blast into crystal flames violations*Into crystal flames of erroneous! meatloaf fangs welcome or lube peeled open+The+Colonial mystery while much high-octane lube on my streets swallowed stems+So shamrock sleet to so "democratic" one) immerse on my streets large truck+Of necessary sleep: photograph on my streets blond spasms spam: Blast on my streets night is too stiff:! now: welcome much high-octane+Lube on my streets embrace:! 772 9494 fax (314) blast people to prevent+On my streets ponds raw clawed! The photograph or blast get the names and+Board- instead of around your eyes are welcome into crystal flames will definitely+Into crystal flames interrogated each! up lube so photograph remove things from+While veins are spackled while between welcome on my streets Police also: Or Baghdad would while wristbone inchless blast on my streets flanges blazed drain+Photograph into crystal flames phone number! When Chris tried to blast videotapped each+While eye+You can smell instead of HYPNOTIZING! photograph into crystal flames fact - is being+Into crystal flames follicles in my! put zip-ties on immerse instead of welcome Wordsworth +Muscles lie like welcome into crystal flames around my tongue are: Follicles:) o the welcome into crystal flames question can+Into crystal flames into stinging! JOURIS AT SUNY immerse or photograph different groups+Into crystal flames Blood is in the! red antsy shaved immerse instead of immerse to it: (I guess+Immerse on my streets meatloaf fangs! clothes: The third lube dawn immolates the+On my streets canker whumped! they were effort welcome instead of lube spoke about the+On my streets caves in-roads smoky! blooming gloom welcome so lube falling prance+Veiled subtexts welcome into crystal flames show last night; I: On my streets conference: The! having what the blast while welcome My veins are+Blast into crystal flames boards to board up! transactions immerse hole+The breeze+While HER NARRATIVE! while and putting them in lube on my streets Police took papers!+Violations and for while candles into sponges photograph on my streets lair pool shallow+Welcome on my streets HIGHLY RECOMMEND THE! in my flaming eyes: lube is allowed to enter+Into crystal flames ragged ladder! detectives with lube or photograph my hole+All my+Welcome on my streets WORDS:! FOR immerse arrived: The cops+Novels of carol maso while having what the photograph into crystal flames wired lewd rot+"controlled photograph on my streets stuff was taken*Into crystal flames flanges blazed drain! cheeked kewpie doll photograph while immerse funnel grunts+This group blast into crystal flames MO 63104 phone (314)+Funnel grunts or themselves! even lube on my streets trances wallowing 'n+Blast into crystal flames motes plundered skin! memories of wrinkled welcome also arrested*While it: while place is now in welcome into crystal flames puts whole new+Immerse into crystal flames phone number! outlasts her with immerse St: Louis!: Instead of car - Vitamin C so spackled dawn eats immerse into crystal flames The+Who am i+the welcome into crystal flames stray brawl stubble: Lube on my streets detectives with! teacher I was photograph shunting "namer"+Into crystal flames that nothing but! (words) that I bring blast while lube flames! the flames+Here is so meatloaf fangs lube into crystal flames combat with the+On my streets SHORT PIECES OF! tug boat bleating welcome so lube mustard gas+The+On my streets my hole+I'm not! contest between immerse while blast she did not+Eye+you can smell or to it: (I guess photograph on my streets virtual+Substance" in the instead of waste of 2+ hours lube on my streets showed it to the: Instead of be reversed to ask so slathered stungless immerse into crystal flames off as soon as she+Eye! in your hole! instead of dissipating! eating welcome on my streets escaped the Matrix?+So put zip-ties on instead of searched and bunch lube on my streets daffodil - which+Instead of Meehan (attorney at instead of get in northern welcome into crystal flames showed it to the+ AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION INTERNATIONAL BELLES LETTRES PARTY MUSE APPRENTICE GUILD WORLDWIDE LITERATI MOBILIZATION NETWORK HYPER MILLENIUM FICTION GROUP CULTURE ANIMAL --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 01:56:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: muse news MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: TAIWAN IS THE NEWEST INTERNATIONAL LINK WITH THE MUSE APPRENTICE GUILD :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: the muse apprentice guild august highland/editor christ mansel/book reviewer www.muse-appentice-guild.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 02:09:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Re: Olson mag MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On a semi-related topic I believe Ralph Maud is still looking for a place to house his reconstructed version of Olson's library. I know he also wants to set up an Olson museum in Gloucester. If anyone is interested in either of these projects please backchannel. AV ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 20:03:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: hazel smith Subject: thanks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Many thanks to the large numbers of people who sent me suggestions for texts that destabilise place. thanks again Hazel Dr. Hazel Smith Senior Research Fellow School of Creative Communication Deputy Director University of Canberra Centre for Writing http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/writing Editor of Inflect http://www.ce.canberra.edu.au/inflect University of Canberra ACT 2601 phone 6201 5940 More about my creative work at www.australysis.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 08:18:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: [deeplistening] Re: Freedom Under Fire Comments: To: FrancoBe@aol.com, carolroos@earthlink.net, srfcosta@yahoo.com, oconn001@umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: >sentto-7702453-1837-1053118750-damon001=umn.edu@returns.groups.yahoo.com >Fri May 16 15:59:28 2003 >X-eGroups-Return: >sentto-7702453-1837-1053118750-damon001=umn.edu@returns.groups.yahoo.com >X-Sender: Brita44@aol.com >X-Apparently-To: deeplistening@yahoogroups.com >To: AEBoster@aol.com >From: Brita44@aol.com >Mailing-List: list deeplistening@yahoogroups.com; contact >deeplistening-owner@yahoogroups.com >Delivered-To: mailing list deeplistening@yahoogroups.com >List-Unsubscribe: >Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 16:57:26 EDT >Subject: [deeplistening] Re: Freedom Under Fire >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: >http://umn.edu/mc/s?BCsgpmw681iCtYZudlOT.aoFBCbCdapsnctvZFKgX7sbwBHVN1aZCTizFoekRhe2L3xHgnFr7yK8 >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] n1.grp.scd.yahoo.com #+NE+NR+UF+CB (A,-) >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-w4.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > >This is an important article by the ACLU.....Suzanne > >http://www.aclu.org/Files/OpenFile.cfm?id=12580&MX=804&H=0 > > >ACLU RELEASES REPORT ON SUPPRESSION OF DISSENT IN POST 9/11 AMERICA > >The ACLU has released a revealing new report on the suppression of >dissent since the terrorist attacks of 9/11. > >"Freedom Under Fire: Dissent in Post-9/11 America," describes how >some government officials, including local police, have gone to >extraordinary lengths to squelch dissent wherever it has sprung up, >drawing on a breathtaking array of tactics - from censorship and >surveillance to detention, denial of due process and excessive force. > >"This report clearly illustrates how dangerous it has become since >the terrorist attacks of September 11 to criticize the President or >his policies," said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the >ACLU. "Government officials and political leaders must not be >allowed to chill the free and robust debate that has made the >American way of life the envy of nations and its Constitution a >beacon to the world." > >The 18-page report finds that dissent since 9/11 has taken three >principal forms: mass protests and rallies, messages on signs or >clothing, and other acts of defiance by communities and individuals. >Some of the most stunning abuses -- such as the compilation of >political profiles of peaceful demonstrators by police in New York >-- did not come to light until they were exposed and challenged by >the ACLU. > >Read the full ACLU report, "Freedom Under Fire": > > > >http://www.aclu.org/Files/OpenFile.cfm?id=12580&MX=804&H=0 > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >Yahoo! Terms of Service. -- ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 15:14:19 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: cris cheek Subject: Re: CIRCULARS -- last 100 stories In-Reply-To: <9664F36261DE32409334B83B21CAEE8EB6E646@lwtc.ctc.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > And I'm rooting > for "something different" -- for a poetry that continues to monitor and > respond to this low point in our history. Quite agree Joe. In fact i agreed with entirety of this recent post. Thanks. So who's doing stuff? disarmament anyone? love and love cris ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:29:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Mexico & Cuba questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, I'm going to live in Mexico City this summer for all of July and August on a writer's residency. I'm writing to ask for any suggestions and advice on how to make the most of it. Also if anyone has any updates on fines levied on US citizens who travel to Cuba from Mexico City. Best, Brenda Coultas ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 01:01:44 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Komninos Zervos Subject: Komninos Zervos/Staff/Griffith is out of the office. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII I will be out of the office starting 19/05/2003 and will not return until 23/05/2003. I will respond to your message when I return. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:37:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Camille Martin Subject: Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Samantha, see Charles Henri Ford's _Silver Flower Coo_ (Kulchur, 1968), a book of visually striking collages of (among other things) advertising. Camille >Hello all: > I was wondering if anyone could refer me to poetry/prose >that takes on advertising, commericials, etc. in either >form or content (or both). > Thank you! ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:09:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: gnossienne In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit gnossienne today to wonder in serpentine layers plain as wall paper formal madness bound in string battered and baited pulls winter from station static and distance there hallmark's something flat confectionery's teeth of hunger not much is said waits on a new formal combination an encore collapses on a crowd the circle, etc. later followed by the weather sepia tones and a vacancy ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 10:52:37 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: in a perfect state In-Reply-To: <6DF0DAAE-8953-11D7-852D-003065AC6058@sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit in a perfect state being beat by a counter act / by fucking / by a counter fact / not just fucking / multiple dead ends / fucked by an anti-character / no / just fuck me on the spot / the earth / frequent flyer miles / lost? / no / then just fuck it / dust on three point perspective / don't touch me there / just fuck me / an angel made an illusion / fuck it / notice the bouncing ball / being symbolic / fuck me / a symbolic fuck -fucked me / size of novels / arrival time / departures / arrivals / take offs / plug-ins / off times / on time / between tonic / and a mellon in a microwave / first fuck / then proust / slap me / beat me / the issue has it own address / this is am impression / a self talking scandal / a new deal / dead in the field / I fuck / you fuck / in the middle / asymmetrical water / an end with a small decimal / a golden shower / with a gun / a fry pan / heat expands / flypaper / an ode to body heat / organized around anything / I fuck / you fuck / no more tears / tastes hard and easy / of this and that / fuck / fuck this / fuck harder / fuck now / fuck till the end of time ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:10:02 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Kirby's (A)wake MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "hammond guthrie" To: "Joel" Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 10:28 AM Subject: Kirby's (A)wake > This today from Eric - a Digger friend, and knew you would enjoy the > (A)wake report. > > Best - Hammond > > ++++++++++++++++++++ > > Attended the rousing Poet's Wake for Kirby Doyle last night. Kelly, Kirby's > daughter, was there and spoke with heartfelt love. Kirby's longtime friends > and fellow poets spoke, read from theirs or Kirby's work. Michael McClure > read a prose reminiscence he had written yesterday morning about Kirby's > apartment in 1958 and the scene that revolved around their Fillmore > neighborhood ("we were all thieves, but innocent souls"). Peter Berg spoke > extemporaneously, his great skill as orator, about the tragedy that Kirby's > work bespoke. He mentioned the influence that "Ode to John Garfield" had on > Emmett Grogan, another Irishman "dislocated from the American Dream." He > recalled the "Candle Opera" that Richard Brautigan staged in the Panhandle > with everyone lighting candles in the audience while others read favorite > poetry. Emmett read the "Ode" and afterwards Peter handed him a pistol that > he'd been given and said to Emmett, "Here you're going to need this." Others > talked about Kirby's drinking and meth habits. And Kush, the angel who > organized the event, read Diane DiPrima's Revolutionary Letter No. 11, > (which Diane had requested be read, she having a previous engagement last > night in the Sierra) talking about riding with Kirby on a Free City food run > up the San Joaquin valley. Kelly talked about growing up at the Red House in > Forest Knolls. Vicki Pollack and Tony Urrea were there. Neeli Cherkovski. > Allen Cohen recounted how Kirby and Emmett had convinced the Oracle staff > not to hold a Summer Solstice Be-In on Hopiland in 1967, and read a piece of > Kirby's they published. Several different musicians played saxophone > arrangements they had written for the occasion. Food and drink were aplenty. > A representative of the Digger Archives handed out a reproduction of the > Free City News sheet that Kirby wrote for the Easter event 1968 (FC-05) "BIG > HUGE LUMINOUS THE FLOWING EYES OF GOD PLAYING BEAMS OF INEXHAUSTIBLE LIGHT". > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:10:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Kirby's (A)wake-More MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable FW: Kirby's (A)wake ----- Original Message -----=20 From: hammond guthrie=20 To: Joel=20 Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2003 3:22 PM Subject: FW: Kirby's (A)wake Another note regarding the (A)wake from a participant.... Best - Hammond ---------- From: ALLEN COHEN=20 Hammond great surprising event especially Kirby's daughter, Kelley, speaking of = her view of Kirby as both icon and psychotic - Michael Mclure about = Kirbys pad in 57 near Batman Gallery, everyone grabbed onto a different = part of the elephant and so we saw Kirby in all his facets. I spoke of = his interactions of his days with me at the Oracle and read from an = article he wrote for the Oracle - In prose he wrote like he talked so it = was very direct and he ended his article with a short very direct = uncluttered chinese style poem; Poem To A Mountain Girl ...and in your sleep I awake here, have eaten an orange have gone to the creek and bathed listening to its thin and liquid speech its joy to run so free and clean Now, returning to this ragged tent sanctuary to your sleep, your real sleep, I wish for you waking so that we together could take cool pause at the hidden pond I found down stream our bodies quick and chilled by the water, our bodies breathing - holding Now, as pen point and shadow touch this page I look up almost stunned to know that from your sleep you have loved me. and from my awakening I have loved you back ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:24:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Samantha Pinto Subject: Re: Thank you ! Poetry/prose about advertising MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thank you all for your input on poetry and advertising. Your suggestions were incredibly helpful. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 14:52:33 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory/practice of military aesthetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For Bill Austin, Murat Nemet-Nejat, Steven Vincent, et al. I can't help but want to continue this thread as I'm enjoying your posts. You are all more scientifically theoretical than I am. I am just intuiting my way, but through aesthetics, mainly, rather than through linguistics. I have been slow to respond due to the end of the semester but now I have a chance to drag this into deeper water. I'm not sure if this has been discussed -- the aesthetics of 9/11. It was impressive. The plane entering the building, the huge building falling. It participated in the aesthetics of the sublime. In fact it was all about this impressive, big God that we seem to share with the Islamic tradition, and then the question is meant to arise: whose side is he on? Bush's counterattack (he needed a bigger canvas than Afghanistan to make his case) was actually called SHOCK and AWE. This is a clear reference to the aesthetics of the sublime set forth by Edmund Burke, and then clarified and intensified in the Critique of Judgment by Immanuel Kant. Kant says that big things like the sea, waterfalls, the stars at night remind us that there is a God. I'm not sure how much Islamic aesthetics accepts this idea. It's a totally blank slate to me. They are not permitted to have a pictorial tradition, but it seemed to me that Bin Laden and Al Qaida have an intuitive understanding of this tradition. They like to work on big canvases and make terrific tragedies. I'm sort of disgusted by this because it lacks a sense of humor. Kant himself denies that the humorous is ever aesthetic. He says that humor is based on a disappointment of expectations, and on the incongruous. It's just a page or two in the Critique of Judgment. I've been trying to rebuild the comic as an important aesthetic and political criterion. Just fumbling toward this idea intuitively that democracy requires humor. Kenneth Burke wrote that a cult of comedy was humanity's only hope for the future. We're not getting this from the extremists, who prefer the Shock and Awe of the Aesthetics of the Sublime. What I'm trying to think about is a scaled down aesthetic of the comic picturesque -- difficult but amusing, the way that say, Seinfeld can be at its best for instance when he's trying to decide whether soup by itself can be a meal. This doesn't seem to have come from the Old Testament, but from a quite different tradition that is apparently developed as another kind of tradition within Judaism the way that the Sufis developed a kind of humor inside the Islamic tradition. Somehow I think that this tradition has to be developed but to do so requires another view of God altogether. A god of small moments, of the enjoyment of the mist arising from a newly opened orange, etc. Maybe even a clownish God. It's something different going on in the brain. The picturesque is not in the limbic system but primarily in the neo-cortex -- you have to think about it. The sublime is something awesome that goes down into the most primitive aspects of the brain. You almost can't think about it. It's shock and awe. It's difficult to stay in the neo-cortex (the area where almost all higher thinking is done according to MacLean) when you are also thinking about politics. So what we have is a tradition where Tennyson has seemed to be more important than Edward Lear, for instance, because we tend to privilege that deeper area of the brain. But now I notice lots of poets turning towards comedy and a distrust of the great maneuvers of tragedy with its aesthetics of retaliation from Creon in Antigone, and Clytemnestra on Agamemnon, up through MacBeth, etc. Tate, Lux, Gudding, and many other poets turning towards humor. A lot of writers like Gregory Corso, Andrei Codrescu, Philippe Soupault have tried to develop a piquant humor within surrealism and to stay away from the grand moments of the sublime. This self-consciously small tradition that develpps comedy in the place of tragedy may also develop friendship rather than the deep hatred and Huge Principles of the current actors on the political stage. I have been wondering if there is stand-up comedy within extremist circles in either Hamas, Al-Qaida, or whomever, or what they think of it. Is it a purely secular thing? It seems to me that the Bush administration shares this appreciation of the big sublime gesture. Perhaps but only perhaps quieter aesthetic traditions would make for a more lasting piece than this militarization of aesthetics that we see going on where each side strives for a bigger and more shocking spectacle. I have no idea what a comic picturesque war would look like -- maybe leafleting Baghdad with funny pictures of Saddam with a big nose or something, or maybe Al-Qaida would have done better to have comedy training camps and to send trained comedians who would slowly infiltrate the Tonight Show to get their viewpoint across would have been much more fun and probably would have been less costly to them, and us, and would have been more efficacious. But meanwhile we're still stuck with this humorless and dare I say rather gauche aesthetics of the military sublime based on a tragic view of the divine. -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 15:14:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: Mexico & Cuba questions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brenda, Back channel me and I will give you info on flying from Mexico to Havana. It's a breeze. I'll put you in touch with a travel agent who'll help you, if you like. Best, Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 16:49:20 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Poet ends exile MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Singer-Poet Rod McKuen Ends Exile, Gains Purpose Sun May 18, 9:24 AM ET By Steve James NEW YORK (Reuters) - It would be all too easy to dismiss Rod McKuen as a has-been and an old fogy. After all, the poet, composer and singer just turned 70 at a time when young rappers and nubile singer-songwriters rule the roost in what passes today for performance poetry. For good measure, McKuen, who is emerging from nearly a decade of self-imposed isolation due to depression, thinks rap is "crap" and young people today don't have the work ethics of their elders. His image as a relic of days gone by was sealed too by his recent Carnegie Hall show, which attracted the mostly gray-beard and blue-rinse brigade. But that's precisely the point, says the man who has sold 75 million books of poetry and written such classic songs as "Love's Been Good to Me" for Frank Sinatra (news) and "If You Go Away/Ne Me Quitte Pas," with Jacques Brel. McKuen, who has been a voice for his generation, be it the Beats in the 1950s or the Hippies during the Vietnam era, is still articulating the thoughts and fears of those people who, like him, became parents and are now grandparents. "Getting old is like masturbation. You don't have to dress up any more, and you only have to please yourself," McKuen said. "You only have to prove things to yourself. "I dreamed all my life of entertaining seniors. I am sick and tired of seeing them warehoused," he told Reuters in a recent interview. "Nobody entertains these people, so it will be free to people over 60," he said of the tour that features him singing and reading his poetry. Snowy-haired and bearded as he was in his 40s, the man who has written some 1,500 songs credits this activism on behalf of older people with giving him new purpose in life. That, along with Prozac, helped him emerge from a long period of self-imposed exile from public life. "IF YOU GO AWAY, AS I KNOW YOU MUST..." "I woke up one morning in the early '90s and felt I had the whole weight of the world on me. It was clinical depression. "I never left the yard in three years and for five years I didn't answer the phone," said McKuen, sipping a martini in a Manhattan hotel. A doctor finally prescribed Prozac and within three months the hermit phase ended. "Bingo! I vowed to never fall into a state like that again. "I regret I didn't take personal responsibility sooner, but I want people to know you can be cured. Life has been good and I don't want to feel sorry for myself," he said. McKuen is back touring in support of his latest work -- "A Safe Place to Land" -- a book of poems with two CDs, which he sells over the Internet from his California home for $40. Having bought back the rights to most of his songs, recordings and TV shows, McKuen is pretty much self-sufficient although the current tour is sponsored by computer maker Hewlett-Packard Co. for whom he is now acting as a spokesman as it targets older consumers. McKuen was born in a Salvation Army hospital and never knew his father. He left home at 11 and worked as a cowhand, a lumberjack, a ditch digger, railroad worker and even a rodeo cowboy. He served in the Army in Korea, was a contract player at Universal Studios and sang with the Lionel Hampton band. WRITING TO EXPLAIN "I had less than four years formal education in my life," he said. "I lived with my grandparents and we were less than poor. I learned to read off the newspapers on the wall, that's how I learned to read Jack London." Asked to define himself, this man who has written poetry and songs, had his film music nominated for Academy Awards (news - web sites) ("The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie" and "A Boy Named Charlie Brown") and written a best-seller about child abuse ("Finding My Father") thinks long and hard before answering. "I am best as a performer. I consider myself a singer-songwriter," he finally replied. "I always wrote to explain my life, so writing is not a goal, but a by-product. "People often say 'I live for my art.' Bullshit! If you are given a talent it's to be used. It's not in the private domain." Summing up, McKuen harks back to the song he wrote for his idol, Sinatra. "Life has been good to me and love has been good to me," he said. "I've made a lot of money ... and spent it!" ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 13:56:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick LoLordo Subject: Re: thanks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Many thanks to all who gave me suggestions re. intro to poetry texts--I appreciate your thoughts! Nick ---------- V. Nicholas LoLordo Assistant Professor University of Nevada-Las Vegas Department of English 4504 Maryland Parkway Las Vegas, NV 89154-5011 (702) 895-3623 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 19:04:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Olson mag In-Reply-To: <20030515.183631.-277543.0.sinfoniapress@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Hi All >I was wondering if anyone has info >on an 'Olson Magazine' or' Journal' >that appears to have been published in the 70's ? >I see it referenced in various essays by Butterick >and other authors writing on Olson's work. > > Thanks, > Ric I have a complete run, but unfortunately, all my books are packed in boxes. -- George Bowering Never been to Luxembourg Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 23:35:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: well now MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII well now "ca", "3" "ch", "1" "com", "69" "edu", "2" "net", "16" "nz", "1" "org", "10" "uk", "8" , sick fuck "com", "83" "edu", "1" "fi", "3" "net", "7" "org", "11" "uk", "5" - moron president "ca", "12" "com", "78" "edu", "1" "net", "1" "org", "15" "uk", "2" "us", "1" - will kill "cn", "1" "com", "76" "edu", "3" "gov", "1" "jp", "1" "net", "6" "org", "17" "uk", "2" "us", "3" ! all sex humans "au", "2" "ca", "1" "com", "37" "edu", "9" "gov", "1" "ie", "1" "net", "2" "nl", "1" "org", "53" "sg", "1" "uk", "2" ! on dirty planet "au", "2" "br", "1" "ca", "2" "com", "65" "edu", "3" "gov", "1" "net", "4" "nl", "2" "org", "29" "uk", "1" . __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 03:19:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Pound Organization: Bilkent University Subject: Basra University destroyed by looting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "The blue dome that professors say housed the oldest astronomy = department in the Middle East is still there, but inside there is = nothing but rubble. The law school, the economics department, the art = school, the Arabic studies wing - all are ruined. The damage goes beyond = what would be caused in mere burglary, crossing over into wanton = destruction." http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/19/international/worldspecial/19BASR.html?= tntemail1 ________________________ Scott Pound Assistant Professor Department of American Culture and Literature Bilkent University TR-06800 Bilkent, Ankara TURKEY +90 (312) 290 3115 (office) +90 (312) 290 2791 (home) +90 (312) 266 4081 (fax) pounds@bilkent.edu.tr http://www.bilkent.edu.tr/~pounds ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:35:20 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "James W. Cook" Subject: Re: Olson mag Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed For anyone near Gloucester, Massachusetts... an open meeting of the Charles Olson Society (U.S.) May 22, 2003 at 7 p.m. in the Friend Room of the Sawyer Free Library 2 Dale Avenue Gloucester, MA 01930 _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:44:53 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: On Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Rodney Koeneke: another reading of Fanny Howe's Doubt Kit Robinson reading Merrill Gilfillan's "Bull Run in October" Nate Dorward in defense of Charles Tomlinson Genre & expectation Fanny Howe's "Doubt" Rob Halpern on Aloysius Bertrand & the problem of intention at the origin of the prose poem Charles Bernstein's "In Particular" Two new books from Kristin Prevallet Blogging notes Joel Bettridge's Shores: Following the logic of the poem David Markson's marvelous This is Not a Novel (Is so!) Graham Foust's 6 & a note on his comments re my reading of Spicer (remembering Frederick Bock) Merrill Gilfillan's "Bull Run in October" amid the riches of The Poker 2 Who is Charles Tomlinson: a cautionary tale Blogs & links: beyond the inner circle http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 05:26:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: MULTI-DIRECTIONAL COMMUNICATION THROUGHPOUT #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MULTI-DIRECTIONAL COMMUNICATION THROUGHPOUT #0001 cynn Herstellung bubbly water lapping at the sides of the SS7 genog temporary threshold shift cuttle print always seemed to put him in good spirits Geodesie et de Capability en.gan Performance Standards address yielding buttocks, spreading them "It really is too bad you felt you had Robert was nearly suspended by the balls controls trusting VitaminDeficiency Belfast School god." she whispered, offering him a aglæca look longingly at young girls who flaunt the undershorts Laboratory, We Global Energy Water cycle the problem lies in Andromache's embrace. 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Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:23:39 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Book Launch: Fashionable Noise (Stefans) & Platform (Toscano) Comments: To: bks cuny MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please join Rodrigo and I in lifting a glass of... something to, uh... ourselves, Tuesday, May 27th, to celebrate the launch of his excellent book of poems, Platform, and my curious book of essays and poems, Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics, both just out from Atelos Press. Where: Spoonbill and Sugartown bookstore, in the charming, little celebrated gated community of Williamsburg, Brooklyn, on 218 Bedford Avenue. It's the L train, stupide! (as zee French might say) -- zee Bedford stop, head south a few blocks. What time: 7-9 (hours of the "magic light"). There will be wine, cheese, olives and depending on our attitudes toward formalities a brief reading, but I doubt it. I'm planning on selling my book on at a slight discount -- $10 ($3 off) -- don't know what Rodrigo's plans are but he might do the same. Get it while it's cheap. Tell friends to get it while it's cheap. Tell everyone. Please read (but don't believe) the promo info below to be further persuaded of the necessity of your presence at this event. And there's nothing better than a Tuesday night of loitering on the streets of Wburg! Cheers, Brian *** Rodrigo Toscano's Platform is a political one; his writings are predicated on the political conditions of contemporary life. But his work is not (and will never be) predicted by those conditions; indeed, outwitting, unnerving, and outspeaking the forces and figures clinging to control is one of his signal artistic strategies. It would be correct to read Platform as a triumphant product of precise and complex labor (thus adding to the tradition set by of Louis Zukofsky). But where the spirit of Johann Sebastian Bach informed Zukofsky's work, we would suggest that it is the spirit of the Teatro Campesino that informs Toscano's — his poems carry out brilliantly creative interventions. The works is bitingly inventive and yet delicately meticulous; outrageous, funny, anti-hypocritical, and "unfuckingrightgaggable," Platform is victory for the political intelligence whose exercise is now, more than ever, a human necessity. Rodrigo Toscano grew up in San Diego. After a few years in the San Francisco Bay Area working as a social worker and an activist within the labor movement, he moved to New York, where he continues this work. He is a nationally influential writer, whose work along the intersections of social and aesthetic activism is adding new dimensions to contemporary poetics. Platform is Rodrigo Toscano's third book. His first book, The Disparities, was published jointly by Green Integer and O Books in 2002. His second book, Partisans (which, due to a variety of circumstances, came out before his first), was published in 1999 by O Books. http://www.atelos.org/platform.htm *** Brian Kim Stefans' Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics eludes any singular description — it is too various. At once, Fashionable Noise explodes with ingredients of essay, games, and poetry, and it is always engaging, always thought provoking. How does limitless replication and change affect a dialogue one might try to have with another poet's words? What's so interesting about the hidden code behind the link Walt Disney that misdirects you, takes you to the wrong site? Stefans confronts these questions, and the ease with which he simultaneously discusses, investigates, and incorporates those elements that might make up a digital poetics is astounding. Generating poetry with a computer program, synthesizing Scots by using an algorithm accompanied by dictionaries, employing an ICQ chat transcript as the conduit for delivering a significant discussion on digital poetics: these are just a few examples of what readers will find in this book. Although "the webwork, unlike the earthwork, can never be photographed from a satellite perspective," Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics is on the forefront of mapping out a rapidly emerging, constantly morphing, virtual terrain. Brian Kim Stefans is the author of Free Space Comix (1998), Gulf (1998/2000), and Angry Penguins (2000). He has been an active presence on the internet for several years, editing arras.net — a ceaselessly original site devoted to new media poetry and poetics — and creating works such as the acclaimed Flash poem "The Dreamlife of Letters" and a setting of the "e" chapter of Christian Bök's Christian Bök's Eunoia. He is an active literary and cultural critic, publishing frequently in the Boston Review, Jacket, and elsewhere. He lives in New York City. http://www.atelos.org/fashionable.htm ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 05:33:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0014 - #0016 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0014 - #0016 fall: they were fall: they were from afar. from afar. from afar. of people. The of people. The fall: they were don't even know don't even know don't even know infinite. I have infinite. I have And it was no And it was no And it was no cannot understand cannot understand infinite. I have Immediately he Immediately he pulling on my pud. pulling on my pud. pulling on my pud. saver. saver. Immediately he who, here, in his who, here, in his -the mechanism of -the mechanism of -the mechanism of admitted of such a admitted of such a who, here, in his that prison no that prison no was slashed to the was slashed to the was slashed to the miseries for him. miseries for him. that prison no NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0015 into my bloodstream. into my bloodstream. amiable and amiable and into my bloodstream. handsome, despite handsome, despite handsome, despite It's one of those It's one of those returned returned and tessellated and tessellated and tessellated returned never miss an never miss an depose a prince depose a prince depose a prince line along the side line along the side never miss an and that, in short, -Vijayam and Bhakta and that, in short, -Vijayam and Bhakta and that, in short, -Vijayam and Bhakta Another major Another major gotten to know her gotten to know her "The sun of Greece "The sun of Greece "The sun of Greece wretch he was wretch he was gotten to know her individualizes and individualizes and opinion; and today opinion; and today opinion; and today fire!" fire!" individualizes and realization? If so, realization? If so, oldest ideas, in oldest ideas, in oldest ideas, in allowances for six allowances for six realization? If so, gloves or gloves or will shine in your will shine in your will shine in your my Lord, spare me!" my Lord, spare me!" gloves or NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0016 rose our flight was rose our flight was derived energy is derived energy is derived energy is on which we stood; on which we stood; rose our flight was mention it..." she mention it..." she fettered force fettered force fettered force foundations of life, foundations of life, mention it..." she conqueror. I know with easements. conqueror. I know with easements. out of sorts, you out of sorts, you out of sorts, you to the edge. to the edge. conqueror. I know with easements. So very lonely!' So very lonely!' hypothesis. When hypothesis. When hypothesis. When others, you remove others, you remove So very lonely!' Francesco the Francesco the soon?" soon?" soon?" seemed to hiss; -taught was black, at which seemed to hiss; -taught was black, at which Francesco the Hinds were they in Hinds were they in rode forward on his rode forward on his rode forward on his to remove her to remove her Hinds were they in larger than the Pit. larger than the Pit. watching column-- watching column-- watching column-- closed, although it closed, although it larger than the Pit. This was all the This was all the milk. He licked up milk. He licked up milk. He licked up and other and other This was all the tits and stomach tits and stomach Chief Warrant Chief Warrant Chief Warrant suggested. suggested. tits and stomach million, or three million, or three bespeak his serious bespeak his serious bespeak his serious back, in back, in million, or three crashed down. crashed down. fearing the lengths fearing the lengths fearing the lengths eyes. I reached out, eyes. I reached out, crashed down. AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION MUSE APPRENTICE GUILD INTERNATIONAL BELLES LETTRES PARTY SUPERHEROIC AGE WORLDWIDE LITERATI MOBILIZATION NETWORK CULTURE ANIMAL --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 08:51:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: Lars Gustafsson, "The Machines" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Machines Some machines came early, others, late. Outside their own time, the world doesn't really have room for them. Heron's fountain, atl-atl, voltaic pile. The famed mine shaft machinery in Falun. Curiosities: The "pneumatic corn-sweep" *Una macchina per riscaldare i piedi* The machines that we notice are those from another century: they seem to be placeless. They become obvious, take on meaning. Yet just what they mean, nobody knows. The hydraulic mine device: an apparatus with two shafts, which run in opposite directions, made to convey force out over great distances. What does the hydraulic mine device mean? *The mines in the Harz anno 1723* The lithograph swarms with people. Men, as tiny as flies, ride up and down in the baskets. And next to the foaming waterfall, illustration figure *j*, "La Grande Machine," which runs all the drive-belts. It would indeed be conceivable that steam engine and general-mechanical-instrument, Heron's fountain and voltaic pile might all be combined. No one has done it. Residue of possibilities. A foreign language that no one has ever spoken. And, strictly speaking, grammar itself is another machine, emitting, from the midst of innumerable sequences, the mutter of communication: "instruments of reproduction," the "procreative numbers" "outcries," "stifled whispers." When the words disappear, the grammar remains, and that's what we call: a machine. Yet what it means, nobody knows. A foreign language. A totally foreign language. A totally foreign language. A totally foreign language. The lithograph swarms with people. Words, as tiny as flies, ride up and down in the baskets, and next to the foaming waterfall, illustration figure *j*, "La Grande Machine," which runs all the drive-belts. --Lars Gustafsson, tr. Harriett Watts from *Journey to the Center of the Earth*, 1966 in *The Stillness of the World before Bach* [New York: New Directions, 1988] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:12:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory/practice of military aesthetics MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/18/03 2:51:20 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << Kant says that big things like the sea, waterfalls, the stars at night remind us that there is a God. I'm not sure how much Islamic aesthetics accepts this idea. It's a totally blank slate to me. They are not permitted to have a pictorial tradition, but it seemed to me that Bin Laden and Al Qaida have an intuitive understanding of this tradition. They like to work on big canvases and make terrific tragedies. >> Actually, but for 9/11, the attacks haven't been all that "terrific." But I get your point. I doubt that Bin Laden thinks about the aesthetics of the sublime (a redundancy?). I could be wrong. The Twin Towers symbolized U.S. financial power, of course. But that's a fairly obvious and flat correspondence. Since Allah is "the light that caresses the world," Bin Laden need not rely on intuition any more than anyone else who embraces religion. The sublime is very much a part of Islamic tradition. I do agree with Stockhausen that 9/11 was a work of art, in the sense that horror is always an aesthetic event. <> I think both were a bit extreme in their views. Tragedy and comedy are Siamese twins. We are dogged by both faces, always. <> We went down this road with the ancient Greeks, and later with the Vikings. Aspects of pantheism and the Tao also relevant, as is Wicca. After all, you're describing the worship of nature, basically. Clearly the god of the Old Testament is not so different from what the Greeks imaged in terms of anger and tricksterism (e.g., the "got ya" in the case of Abraham and Isaac). If we revisit what you describe, will things be better or worse. I don't know. Perhaps we're already there. <> This I'm not willing to assume. But who knows? I absolutely agree that you have to "think about it." That's what I've been saying. The sublime, however, does not escape this ring of language, of ideas. You say you almost can't think about it. I say you must think it if it is to exist for you. "Primitive" humans could think; they had the sublime because they had language (and plenty of hallucinogens). Before that, before language, there was perhaps ONLY the primitive aspects of the brain, i.e., tissue and chemicals and electrical impulses and unmediated (unknown) sensations. The idea such things carry aesthetic weight is just that: an idea. Aesthetics, front to back, is ideational. <> I agree. But doesn't this reaction have much to do with a sense of powerlessness, a sense that the individual "means" nothing. We find this idea growing throughout modernism into postmodernism, in Beckett, in the best works of Bob Dylan, in the death of the subject. How can poets compete with huge figures like Eliot who marked the end of tragedy as the most tragic event of all? When faced with a waste land, one can only rebuild in small measures. And, of course, the spread of pluralism in the west dispersed, and so weakened, the effects (the import) of tragedy. If we are powerless in a world dominated by corporate concerns and religious fanaticism, then the aesthetics of the absurd become an inevitable refuge. But consider that both tragedy and comedy carry the other's trace, internalize the other. The fact is that life is tragedy in Aristotelian terms. Human beings aspire, but bear (bare) a tragic flaw (our very humanity). This is an important aspect of what has given meaning to our lives, at least so far: our story, the romance we all live. Even those who resist this view fall in love, have children, hopes for their children, etc. And they cry, or dance, or something, at funerals. From one point of view, life repeats these small tears, each one a metonym for the grand tragedy. From another point of view, the seemingly endless repetition seems absurd, pointless. << I have no idea what a comic picturesque war would look like>> Maybe we're already there. Baudrillard wrote that the Gulf War did not happen. What he meant was that reality has become fiction, fiction reality. The media, for one, has exchanged "real life" (if there ever was such a thing) for a simulacrum. I enjoy your posts also. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 10:30:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII all sex humans "au", "2" "au", "2" "au", "2" "au", "6" "be", "1" "br", "1" "ca", "1" "ca", "1" "ca", "12" "ca", "2" "ca", "2" "ca", "3" "ca", "3" "ch", "1" "ch", "2" "cn", "1" "com", "31" "com", "37" "com", "42" "com", "64" "com", "65" "com", "69" "com", "76" "com", "78" "com", "83" "cx", "1" "de", "1" "edu", "1" "edu", "1" "edu", "1" "edu", "11" "edu", "2" "edu", "3" "edu", "3" "edu", "6" "edu", "9" "fi", "3" "fi", "42" "gov", "1" "gov", "1" "gov", "1" "gov", "2" "gov", "2" "id", "1" "ie", "1" "ie", "1" "jp", "1" "jp", "1" "jp", "20" "kr", "1" "lb", "1" moron president national pride "net", "1" "net", "16" "net", "2" "net", "2" "net", "3" "net", "4" "net", "6" "net", "7" "net", "7" "nl", "1" "nl", "2" "no", "10" "nz", "1" "nz", "2" o finland on dirty planet "org", "10" "org", "11" "org", "15" "org", "17" "org", "23" "org", "29" "org", "3" "org", "53" "org", "9" "ro", "8" "ru", "1" "se", "1" "sg", "1" "sg", "1" this works "to", "1" "tw", "1" "uk", "1" "uk", "1" "uk", "2" "uk", "2" "uk", "2" "uk", "5" "uk", "7" "uk", "8" "us", "1" "us", "1" "us", "1" "us", "3" ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:34:22 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Re: On Silliman's Blog Comments: To: Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ron I was a tad uneasy at the description of Tomlinson in 'Who is Charles Tomlinson: a cautionary tale'. Granted, his work has its limitations, but given the cultural environment he was writing in it deserves respect. I've met him twice: once a decade and more ago, when I found him a bit 'icy', and once the other year, when I discovered this rather sweet old buffer who was very friendly and likeable. It's not that I don't have reservations about the writing, but too I have them about Bunting or David Jones as well, and I can't agree with your comments on Hughes, true, he was a very uneven writer, I detest some of his stuff, but to call him a 'duffer' is going too far. Without examining the question of any writer's level of intellectual capacity all that matters is what a writer is capable of producing at their best. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron" To: Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: On Silliman's Blog http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Rodney Koeneke: another reading of Fanny Howe's Doubt Kit Robinson reading Merrill Gilfillan's "Bull Run in October" Nate Dorward in defense of Charles Tomlinson Genre & expectation Fanny Howe's "Doubt" Rob Halpern on Aloysius Bertrand & the problem of intention at the origin of the prose poem Charles Bernstein's "In Particular" Two new books from Kristin Prevallet Blogging notes Joel Bettridge's Shores: Following the logic of the poem David Markson's marvelous This is Not a Novel (Is so!) Graham Foust's 6 & a note on his comments re my reading of Spicer (remembering Frederick Bock) Merrill Gilfillan's "Bull Run in October" amid the riches of The Poker 2 Who is Charles Tomlinson: a cautionary tale Blogs & links: beyond the inner circle http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:21:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: study and benign slowly In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable study and benign slowly an idea floats by, on its scars a =93dear disbelief stone hammer,=93 and=20= other utensils used against free association. else where, as always,=20 cement paranoia drinks in the shadows, a current disease caused by an=20 atmosphere of faith. a fin de siecle with light impressions. written in=20= another echo, =94how do you feel?,=94 an example of meaning replaces a=20= material fringe. then lastly, a dry eye is not left, when gloating by=20 millions bond's tires in beer. grief is shown in by big brother's=20 banter and motel meal considerations. informed that the best wear is=20 complicity=92s paranormal bunions, plunked down on the gallows. a please=20= pause of anticipation, faint in its single sack of blighted confession=20= is played by our mother.=20= ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:37:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: The Phenomenal Window Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , thingist , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I saw the water brown between a greening of geese sawing off branches with awls of sunning flakes. In my brain the hum of flipping this and tip-toe parking cars over to starve them rightside to tidy understanding, and watch, charg'd the noon with something else. Coming (yes!) to see this, to assist in painting world on the grasp in curls what I know that to be is askew, so human in my brain. Yes, please pave this crying grass over with sadness, I say. 2003/05/19 12:09:51 ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:00:26 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kiosk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear kyle, I haven't received a copy yet. I wonder if I should be concerned. Have other contributors gotten theirs? Rae Armantrout ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:00:56 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kiosk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Oops. Sorry Sent personal mail to the list again. Rae ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:42:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: FW: SALT AUTHORS WIN PRIZES MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit STOP PRESS Jill Jones' "Screens Jets Heaven: New and Selected Poems" has just won the 2002 NSW Premier's Award. Kate Lilley's "Versary" has just won the 2002 Grace Leven Prize and the William Baylebridge Memorial Prize. Best wishes Chris _____________________________________________________ Chris Hamilton-Emery Editor Salt Publishing PO Box 937, Great Wilbraham PDO Cambridge, CB1 5JX, UK tel: +44 (0)1223 880929 (direct and voicemail) mobile: 07799 054889 email: cemery@saltpublishing.com web: http://www.saltpublishing.com ____________________________________________________ ** Geraldine Monk "Selected Poems" available now! ISBN 1876857692 ** ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:16:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: After having a book signed by one of the poets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii After having a book signed by one of the poets I reflect on how the afternoon sits between the words and the faces that go with them. These faces (we’ve seen in the backs of books) now taken away like gifts we’ll likely forget in the unwrapping. -Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 13:18:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Hide MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hide I've had enough of sounds the heater hums in the corner It is just my skin I need I don't know maybe one needs to lose another weaker layer in order to find you don't need it But no, it is still morning -Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:10:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Re: Two new Brakhage pages In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Oh, I see, MWP: 'tis the season where we use the Poetics List to slur sans substance, is it? Why don't you spell out your brief vs. Camper? Otherwise we'll be tossing rotten eggs and calling people who aren't here "gnats" and "morons," which seems a rather tedious way to go. I dunno where you're writing from, but I can think of no one in Chicago who's done more for Brakhage or for experimental film than Fred Camper (via his work in the -Chicago Reader-). Furthermore, the webpage of Brakhage links that Fred maintains (http://www.fredcamper.com/Film/BrakhageL.html) hardly seems the labor of a "gnat." If anything there's too much "knowledge and authority" there. So: do you care to substantiate and elaborate on your comment, MWP, or shd we just pass your slur off as another Poetics List graffito? Eirik Steinhoff > >The illustrations are nice, is about all I can say. I hope FC doesn't emerge >as the designated authority on Brakhage's work, as he is a moron. We need >more people to write about Brakhage with knowledge and authority, to put >gnats like FC in their place. m >on 5/17/03 1:44 PM, Chicago Review at chicago-review@UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > > >> Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 19:37:24 -0500 > >> From: Fred Camper > >> Subject: Two new Brakhage pages > >> > >> The heavily illustrated version of my review of Brakhage's late > >> films (being shown on Tuesday at the Film Cetner): > >> http://www.fredcamper.com/Film/Brakhage3.html > >> > >> The English-language original of P. Adams Sitney's obituary for > >> Brakhage just published in a French translation in "Cahiers du > >> Cinema": http://www.fredcamper.com/Brakhage/Sitney.html > >> > >> Sorry for the mass mailing, but I just put these up, and wanted > >> people to know about them. > >> > >> Fred > > > > * * * * * * * * * > > CHICAGO REVIEW > > 5801 South Kenwood Avenue > > Chicago IL 60637 > > http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ > * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:53:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: [deeplistening] KUCINICH SCORES IN IOWA #1 Ranked Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: >sentto-7702453-1852-1053372958-damon001=umn.edu@returns.groups.yahoo.com >Mon May 19 14:36:25 2003 >X-eGroups-Return: >sentto-7702453-1852-1053372958-damon001=umn.edu@returns.groups.yahoo.com >X-Sender: easy@waterplanet.ws >X-Apparently-To: deeplistening@yahoogroups.com >X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, es >Bcc: >X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it >with any abuse report >X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server21.general23.com >X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com >X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0] >X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - waterplanet.ws >From: Easy >X-Yahoo-Profile: ysaeabcd >Mailing-List: list deeplistening@yahoogroups.com; contact >deeplistening-owner@yahoogroups.com >Delivered-To: mailing list deeplistening@yahoogroups.com >List-Unsubscribe: >Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 12:36:34 -0700 >Subject: [deeplistening] KUCINICH SCORES IN IOWA #1 Ranked >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: >http://umn.edu/mc/s?BeZ19JDjqfXWSBeMqUmCEh2Uu4SzUViolOBp43H4kd8bUmlZWuCRY,cfcC.jhhDaORGA4svqcP9s >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] n26.grp.scd.yahoo.com #+NE+NR+UF+CB (A,-) >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-m4.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > >KUCINICH SCORES IN IOWA As was reported widely this weekend (Washington >Post, L.A. Times, etc.), presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich was >ranked number one by union members at Saturday's candidate forum in Des >Moines at AFSCME's national convention. It is one more indication that >the Kucinich campaign is gaining traction -- in the key state of Iowa >and elsewhere. > >Reuters reported: "A focus group of 30 union members in Iowa, which >holds the first nominating contest in January, found Kucinich with the >highest overall rating and Sharpton, Gephardt and Dean right behind, >pollster Celinda Lake said. 'I loved what Kucinich feels in his gut and >how he supports labor; I think he gained a lot of support today,' >Michael Arken of Portland, Oregon, said after the forum." > >Kucinich received a rousing reaction to his opening remarks: "As >President, I'll make sure that workers' rights are enshrined in a >Workers' White House. As President, I'll issue an executive order which >will say that anyone who gets a federal contract will have to provide >that when 50% of the workers sign up for a union, there's an automatic >union. As President, I'll set aside those provisions of Taft-Harley >which attack the right to organize. As President (with a 100% AFSCME >voting record, I might add), one of my first acts in office -- >recognizing how trade has devastated so many towns around Iowa and the >nation -- will be to cancel NAFTA and the WTO. > >"I ask this administration: Tell me, Mr. Bush, where are those weapons >of mass destruction? I've seen those weapons, and I'll tell you where >they are. Joblessness is a weapon of mass destruction. Poverty is a >weapon of mass destruction. Hopelessness is a weapon of mass >destruction. Let's bring back hope in America. Let's bring back jobs in >America. Let's bring back workers' rights in America! Thank you." > >*** Dennis Kucinich, co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, >is leading an insurgent campaign for President. He's connecting well >with those fortunate enough to hear his message of cutting military >waste and reversing tax cuts for the wealthy in order to provide >national health insurance for all, Social Security retirement at 65, >free pre-K to college education. He is for canceling the so-called "USA >Patriot Act" and he's the only presidential candidate who voted against it. > > >Learn more about the Kucinich campaign at [http://www.kucinich.us] > >PLEASE CIRUCLATE this to your friends, relatives, co-workers. > >*** > >PS. THE KUCINICH EXCEPTION On Saturday, a front-page Washington Post >article accurately reported that Democratic leaders, with one exception, >are reluctant to confront President Bush over the Iraq war, and the >failure to find weapons of mass destruction: "The only candidate making >a big issue of the failure to find weapons stockpiles is Rep. Dennis J. >Kucinich (D-Ohio), the fervently antiwar candidate. "The basis of the >war in Iraq is fraudulent," Kucinich said in an interview. "They >misrepresented Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction. They >misrepresented the nature of the nuclear threat." > > > > > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. >http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/uetFAA/m0VolB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >deeplistening-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:15:53 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Reminder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Celebrating Literary Brooklyn May 20th, Tuesday 6:30 to 8 P.M. Brooklyn Poets Read their works Wanda Phipps & Phyllis Capello (known as "Ukulele Lady,") + Open Mic. hosted by Daniela Gioseffi The Brooklyn Heights Public Library Auditorium : 280 Cadman Plaza West [Take M, N, or R to Court St. or 2, 3, or 4 to Borough Hall] For Information (718) 623-7100. Admission free. This event was funded in part by Poets & Writers, Inc. through a grant it has received from The New York State Council for the Arts and sponsored also by Friends of the Brooklyn Heights Library Madeline Kiner: Librarian -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 18:21:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: THE i could explain fraternization to the shorn lamb BIRD POEM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed the shift key is a backwoods town, as Donne pointed out William Wormswork to jam up that early bird, for 124 years the bird stood at a safe distance & inched forward in slo-mo a landmark of center-holding, a bird so obscure she couldn't even BUY a cat-bite, you don't need too big a bucket to tote this poem if you print this out you can fold it into a bird & enact this story for the edification of your children, but free up plenty of time because the bird has 35 years to go before she, or WW, hits the spot _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:24:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Corbett Subject: Experimental Theology Reading MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Seattle Research Institute Presents A Christening Party for Public Text No 0.2: EXPERIMENTAL THEOLOGY A new book of poetic, fictive, and theoretical experiments and engagements with belief and disbelief, edited by Robert Corbett and Rebecca Brown, designed by Megan Purn. Charles Muded is Senior Editor for the Public Text series. Public Text 0.1 was "Politics without the State," edited by Nic Veroli and Diana George. Place: The Richard Hugo House (www.hugohouse.org) Date: Sunday, June 1, 2003 Time: 7-9pm $5 Donation suggested Contact: info@seattleresearchinstitute.org Our christening will include, amongst other things, readings from "Experimental Theology," and possibly apocryphal texts the scribes did not let into the "canon." We promise that evening will be both theological and experimental, at least in their broader senses. Beverages at the bar. All ages welcome. Local contributors to Experimental Theology include: Rebecca Brown, Keri Healey, Riz Rollins, Nico Vassilakis, John Olson, Diana George, Leslie Hazleton, Charles Mudede, Megan Purn, Robert Corbett, Steven Shaviro, and James Latteier, as well other writers from New York City, Tucson, Nova Scotia, and elsewhere. -- Robert Corbett "I will discuss perfidy with scholars as rcor@u.washington.edu as if spurning kisses, I will sip Department of English the marble marrow of empire. I want sugar University of Washington but I shall never wear shame and if you call that sophistry then what is Love" - Lisa Robertson ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:08:26 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" Subject: Reminder: Scalapino, Enough Reading, SF 5/21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable @ The Lab =8B A reading, Wednesday, May 21 at 8 pm=2E Located at 2948 16th Street (at Capp), San Francisco, CA 94103=2E An evening in two parts: Part I: Leslie Scalapino reads from her autobiography with a poem,=20 new from Wesleyan Univ=2E Press, Zither & Autobiography (ISBN #=20 0-8195-6476-1, $14=2E95)=2E Eileen Myles says about it: "This American Buddhist pulls off a=20 marvelous and original demonstration of how literature enacts=20 freedom=2E=2E=2Efrom many angles of writing with light bursting through th= e=20 confident seams of her thought=2E"=20 "This is a radically new work" Fanny Howe =20 Part II: Readings from and relating to Enough (ISBN # 1-882022-48-3,=20 $16), an anthology of writings against the conditions of continuous war: by 58 U=2ES=2E, Arab, British, and Israeli poets, published by O Books,=20= edited by Rick London and Leslie Scalapino=2E The editorial basis of Enough is that these poets' art is not separate=20 frompresent being in the world - and that a radical purpose of poetry in critical times is to disrupt the language of consensus=2E Readers at The Lab are: Elizabeth Robinson, Bill Berkson, Jen Hofer,=20 Judith Goldman, Jen Scappettone, David Buuck=2E (Books available from Small Press Distribution: (510) 524-1668) -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:56:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Two new Brakhage pages In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 5/19/03 2:10 PM, Chicago Review at chicago-review@UCHICAGO.EDU wrote: > Oh, I see, MWP: 'tis the season where we use the Poetics List to slur > sans substance, is it? Why don't you spell out your brief vs. Camper? > Otherwise we'll be tossing rotten eggs and calling people who aren't > here "gnats" and "morons," which seems a rather tedious way to go. > > I dunno where you're writing from, but I can think of no one in > Chicago who's done more for Brakhage or for experimental film than > Fred Camper (via his work in the -Chicago Reader-). Furthermore, the > webpage of Brakhage links that Fred maintains > (http://www.fredcamper.com/Film/BrakhageL.html) hardly seems the labor > of a "gnat." If anything there's too much "knowledge and authority" there. > > So: do you care to substantiate and elaborate on your comment, MWP, > or shd we just pass your slur off as another Poetics List graffito? > > Eirik Steinhoff > Camper's pathetic scribblings speak for themselves. They show the mind of somebody who doesn't know how to see film and who relies on stock analyses and wild analogies that bear only the most tenuous relationship to the object being described. If his is the ultimate in experimental film support, then I can only pray for its swift demise. To cite specific examples from Mr. C's words would mean that I would have to refresh my reading of him, which is a drudgery I have no desire to revisit. Brakhage has befriended many great poets and his work speaks with a poet's voice. In my view, poets are the ones who should be writing about him and keeping his voice alive, not some dull-witted pedant who hasn't an ounce of poetry in his veins. Gnat swatted. mwp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:58:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Charles Bernstein Subject: Howe & Howe in New York June 3rd Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed A BOOK PARTY with short readings by Susan and Fanny Howe Tuesday, June 3rd at 6:30pm at the American Irish Historical Society 991 5th Avenue New York City between 80th and 81st Streets Free and open to the Public GONE: Poems by Fanny Howe (University of California Press) THE MIDNIGHT by Susan Howe, photos by Peter Hare (New Directions) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 19:07:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Taylor Brady Subject: Taylor Brady and Tyrone Williams in NYC, 5/24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies for any cross-posting... I'll be reading with Tyrone Williams in the Segue series at the Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery, NYC, on May 24th, 4pm. Hope to see some of you there. (The usual blurbs follow). ------------ Taylor Brady is author of Microclimates (Krupskaya), 33549 (Leroy), and Is Placed/Leaves (Meow). A new book, Occupational Treatments, is in preparation for Atelos. He currently lives in San Francisco, where he serves on the board of directors of Small Press Traffic. Tyrone Williams teaches literature, literary theory and creative writing at Xavier University in Cincinnati, Ohio. He is the author of c.c. (Krupskaya), and Convalescence (Ridgeway Press). He has published poetry in Hambone, Callaloo, The Denver Quarterly, River Styx, The Kenyon Review, Artful Dodge, Berkeley Poetry Review, The Colorado Review, and others. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 19:23:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: AFTER SOL LEWITT - In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20030519215140.033b8c60@pop.bway.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit AFTER SOL LEWITT - sentences on conceptual art 0---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6-- 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012 C O C N O C E P T U A N L C E P T U A R T A I S L A T R S T A R I E S T M S Y S T A R I C E S M Y S R T I C S R A A T T H H E E R R T H A N T R H A A T N I O N A R A T I O N A L L I I S S T T S . S . T T H H E Y E Y L E A P T O L E C O A P T N O C L U C O N C S L I U S I O O N N S S T H A T H T A T L L O O G I G I C C A N C N O T C R A N E N A C H . O T R R A E T A C I O H . N A R L A J T U D I G M O N A E N T S R E P L E A T J U D G M R E N A T T I O N S A L J U R E D P E A T G M R A T I O N A E N T L S . I L L O G I J U C D G M A E L N T J U S D . G I M E N T L L S O G I C A L L E A D T O N E W E X J P U E D R I E G M N E N T S L E A C E . D T O F N O R E W M E A L X P E A R R I T E I N C S E . E S S F O R E N T M I A A L L A L R T Y R A I S T I E S S E O N T I N A A L L L Y . I R R R A T A I O N T I O N A L A T L H . O U I G R H R T A T I O S N A L T H S H O U O U L D B E F G O L H T S S L O H O U L W E D D A B B S E O F O L L L O W E D U A B S T O E L U L T E Y L Y A N A N D D L O G I C A L L O G I L C Y A L L Y . . I F I T H E F A R T T I H E S A R T T C H A I N S T C H A G N E S G E H I S M I N D S M I D H I S W M A I Y N D T H R O U G H M T I H E D W A Y E T H R X O U G H E C U T T H E I O E N X E C U O F T T I O N H E O P F T H E I P I E C E E H C E C O E H E C M P O R O M M I P R O S E S M I S E S T H E T R E H S U L E T A N D R E R S U L E P E A T T A N D S P A R E S T P E A T R E S P A S S T R U L E S U T S L . T T H S . E A T H E R T I S A R T I S T T ' ' S S W I L L W I L L I I S S S S E C O N E D A C O R N D Y T A O R T H Y T E P R O O T H E C P R E S O S C E S S H H E I N I T I E A T I N I T I A E T E S S F F R R O M O M I I D E A T O D C O E A M P L E T O T C O M P I L E T O I O N . N H I . S H I W S I L W L F I L L U F L N U L N E S E S S M A Y S O N M L A Y Y O N L Y B E B E E E G O . G O . W H E N W H E W O R D S N W S U C H O R A S D P S A I N T I S N G A U C N D H S A S C U P A I L P T N U T I R N G A E N A R E D U S S E D C , U T L H P E Y C O N T U R N E O A R E U T E S E D A W H , O L E T R A D T H I E Y T I C O O N A N N N D O T I M P L E Y A A C O N W S H E O Q U E L N E T R T A D I A C C T I O N E P T A N A N C E O F D I M P T L H I S T Y R A A D I C O N T I S E Q U O E N T N , A T H U S C P L C A C E I P T N A N C G E L O F I M I T H T I A S T T I O R N A S D O I N T H E T I A R T O N I , S T T W H U H S O P W O L U A L D C B I N G E R E L U L C T A N I M T I T A T T O I O M N A S K E A O N R T T T H H A T E A R T G O I S E S T B W H E Y O N D T H O W E L O U L I M D I T A T I B O N S . E R E T H E L U C T A N T C O N C T E O P T M A N D A I D E A K E A R T T A H R A T E D I F G F O E E S R E N T . B E T Y O H E N D F O R M T E H E L R I M I M I P T L I E S A T I A O N S G . E N E T R A L D I R H E C T E C O I O N W H N I L C E P T E T H E A L A N T T D I E R D E A I S A R T H E E D C O I M F P F E O N R E E N T . N I D E A T . S T H I E M P F O R L M E R E M E I M P N T T H E C O L I N C E P T . E S A G E N I E R D A L E A D I S A L O R E C T N E C A N B E W I O O R N W H I L K S E T H E O F L A T T E A R T ; R T H E Y A I S R T E I H N E C A O M P O N E N T . C H A I I D E N A O S I F M P D L E V E L O P M E N T T E M H E A N T T M A T Y H E E V E C O N T U N C E A L L Y P F I N T D . S I O D E A M S A L O N E E F C A O R M N . A B L L I E W O R K S O D E A F S N A E R T ; E T H E D N Y O T B E M A R A E D E I N A C H P A I N O H Y F S I C A D L . I D E V E L E A S O P M E N D O T N O T N E C E S T S A H A T R I M L A Y Y P R E V E N T U A L O C E E D L Y I N L O G I C A L O R D F E I R . T H E N Y D M A S O Y M S E E T O N E F O R M . A L O F L F I D E I A N S U N E X P E C T E D N E D E I R E D C N O T T I O N B E M S A D E P H Y S I B U C T A A N L . I D E A I D M U S T N E E A C S D E O S S N O A R T N E C I L E Y S B E S A R C I L Y P R O C E E O D M P L I N E T L E O D G I N I C T A H E M L I N O D B E F R D E R . O R T E T H H E E Y M A Y N E X S E T T O N E I O S N F E O R M E O D F . F O F R I E N A C U H N E X P E C T E W D D O I R K R E C T I O O N S F A B U T R T T H A N A T I D E A B E C O M E M S P U H S Y S T I N E C E S C A S A L T H E R E A R E R I L Y M B A E C N Y O M P V A L E R T E D I I N A T T I H E O N M I N D B E S F T O H A R T E D O T H N O T . E A N E X W T O R O N E I S K O F F A O R R T M E D M A . Y B E F O R U N D E R E S T O A C O D H A S W O A C R K O N O F A D U C R T T O R T H A F R O T B M T H E A R E C O T I M S T E S ' S M I N P H D Y S I C A L T O T T H H E E R E V I E W A E R R E S M A . N Y V A B R U T I I A T M A T Y I O N N S T H E A V E R T R E D O A C N O H T T H E . V I A W O E W E R R , K O R O F I T A M A R T Y N E V M E A R Y L E A V E T B E H E A R T U N D I S E R T S T O S ' M I O D N D . A S A T C O H N E D U C T W O R O R D F S R O O M F O T H N E E A R A R T T I I S T S ' M S I N T D T T O O T H E A N O T H V I E R E M A Y I N W E D U C R S . B U E T I A C H T A M I A Y N O N F I E D V E E A R R E S , A C H T I H E F V I T H E E Y W E S R , H A R E T O R H I T M A Y E N S E A M E C V E O R N C L E E P A V T E . T H E S A R I T N I S T C S ' E M N O I F O N D . R T M H I E S W O I R N T D R S I N S O F I C O N E A A L R T I L Y S S T U T O P A N O E R T I H E R O R T M O A Y A I N N D O T H U E C R , T E A C H H A I E N A R T O F I S T I D M A E A S Y , I F T U S E H E Y A S H N A R E Y T H F E S A O M R M E C , O N C E P T F . R O M S I N C A E N E X P N O R F O E S R M S I O N O F I S W O I N R T R D I S N ( W R I T S T E N I C O R A S P L L O K Y S E U P E R I O N ) R T O T O A N O T P H H Y E S I C R , A L R E T A L I H T Y E , A R E T Q U A I L S T L Y M A Y U . I F S E A N W Y F O R M , O F R R D S O M A A R N E E U S E D X , P A N R D E T H E S S Y I O N P R O O F C E E D W F O R R O D M I S D E A ( W R I S T T E N A B O U T A R O T R , S P T O H E N T H E Y K E N A ) R E A R T T O A P N D H Y S N O T I C L I A T E R A T L U R R E E A , L I T N U M Y , E Q B U A E L L R S A Y R . E N O T I M A T H F W E M O A R D T S A R E I C S U S . E D , A A L L N D I T D E H E A Y S P R A O C E E R D E A F R T R O I F M I D E A T S H A E B Y A R O E C O U T N C E R A N E D R W I T H A R T T , A N D T H F A L E L N W T H E I T Y A H R E I N A T H E R T C O A N V N E N T I D O N S O F N O T A R T L . O N E I T E R A U T U S R U E , A L N L U Y U N D E R S M T B A N D E R S S A R E T H E A N O R T T O F T M H E A P T A H E M S T B Y A P P L Y A T I N I G C S T H . E C A O N L L V E I D N T I E A O N S S O F T H A R E E A P R R E T I F S E N T T H T U H E S Y M I S A U N D R E E R S C T A O N C N D E R I N N G E D T W H I E T H A R T O A F T H R E T A N D F P A S T . A T H E L C L W O I N V E N T T H I I O N S N O F T H E C O N V A R T E N T I A R E O A L T N S O E R E D F B A R T Y . W O R O K N E S U S O F U A A R L L T Y . S U N D U E C R C E S S S T A F U N L A R T C D H A S N G E T H S E A R T O O U R F U N D E T H R S T A E N P A S D I N T B G O F Y A P P T H L Y E C I O N N V E N T G T H E I O C O N S N V B Y A L E N T T I E O N R I S N O F T G H O U E R P P E R R C E E P S T I E N O T T H U N S M I S U N D S E R S T . P E R C A E N P T D I I O N G N T H O E A R F I T D E A O S F T H L E A E D S T P O N A E W I S D E T A . S . T H T H E E A C O R T I S N T V C A E N T I O N N S N O T O I F M A A R G T A I R N E E H I S A A R T , L T A N D E R C E A D B Y N N O T W O R K P S E R O C E I V E F I A T R T U . N T I L I S T U I S C C C E S S F O U M P L L A R E T T E . O C H A N N G E S E O U R A R T I S U N T D E R S T M A Y A N D I N G M O I F S P E T H E R C E I V E C O N ( V E U N T N D E R S T I A N O D N I S T B Y A L T E D I F R I F N E R E N G O T L U R Y F P E R R C E P O M T T H E I O A R T N I S S . T P ) A E W O R C E P T I O R N K O O F F I D E A R A S T B U T L E A S D T I S T O L L B E S N E E T W I O D E F F A S I N . H I T S H O E W N C H A A I R T N O F I T S H O T U G H T B Y C A T N H A T N O T M I S I C O N M A S T R G I N U I N E H I S A G . R T , P E R C A E N D P C T A I O N N O T N P E R I S C S E I V E U B J E C I T I T V E . U N T H E A R T T I I S T M L A Y I T N O I S T C O M N E C E P S S L E T E A . R I L O Y N U N E A R D T I E R S T S T A M A N Y M D I H I S P S E R C E I V O E W N ( U A R N T D . E H I S R S T A N P E D I T D I R C E P T F F E I O R E N N T I S L N E I T H E Y R F R B E T O T M E T R H E A N R O T I R S T ) W O A R S W O E R K T H A N O F T A R H T A B T U T O F O T H E S R S . A T N I A L R L B T I E S S E T O F F I N T M A Y P H E R C E I V E T H I S E A R O T W N O C H F O A T H E I R S N B E T O T F T H O E R U G H T T B Y H T A N H A H T I M S I S C O O W N . T H N E S T R U I N G . C P E O R C N C E E P P T T I O O F N A I W S O S U B R K J E O C F A T R T I V M E . A Y I N T V O H L E V A E R T T I H E M S A T T T M E A Y R O F N O T T H E N E C E S S A R I L P I Y E C U E O N D R E R S T A N T H D H E I P R O C E S S S O W N I N A W R H T I C . H H I S I T P E R I C E S P T M I A D O E N . I S N O E I N T H C E R B E T H E E T T E R I N O R D W O R S E E A O T H F T H E A N P I T H E C A E I S T E O S T A F B O T L H I S H E E R D S . I N A N T A R T H E A I R S T T I S T ' S M A M I Y N P D E A N D R C E I T V H E T H E E F I A N R T O A F L F O T O H R M E R S B I E T T E R S T D E H C A N I D H E D I S , T O W N . H E P R T H E C O O C E S N C E S P T I S O F A C A R W O R I R E D K O O U T F A B R T L I M N A D L Y . Y T I H E R E A R E M A N N Y V O L S V E T H E I D M E A E F F T T E E R C O T F S T H T E H P I A E T C E T O R H E A T H R E P T I S R O T C E C A N S S N I N O T W H I I C M H I T A G I N E I S . M A T H E D E S . E M A O Y N C E B E U S T H E E I D E D A S I D E A A S F O O R F N E W T W H O R E P I E K C E I S . S E S T H E P T A R O B C L I E S S S I H E D S M E C H I N A N I C T A L H E A A N R T D I S S T H O ' S U L M I D N O N D T B A N D E T T H A M E F P I N E A R L E D W I F O T R M H . I S I D T E C I D E S H O U D L , T H E D P R R U N O C E S I T S S I S C O C U A R R R I S E . E T H E D R E O A R U T E M A N Y E L E B M E L N T S I N I N V D L O Y L V . T H E E R E D I N A R E M A A W N O Y R K S O I F D E E F A F E C R T S T . T T H E H A T M O S T I M T H E P A R O T I S T C R T A N A N T N A R E T O H T I E M A M O G I N E . T S T O B H E V S I O E U S . M I A Y F A N B E U S E D A R T I S A T S I U D S E S E T A S H E S A M E F O F R O R M N I N E A W W O R K G R S . T H O U E P P O R F O C E S S I S W O M E C R H K S A N I A N C A L D C A N D H A N G E S S H O T H U L E D M N A T E O R I A T B L , E T O N E A M W O U P E R E L D D A S W S U I T M E H T . H E I A T R S T H O U L D I S T ' S R C O U N C E P T N I I N T V S O C O U L V R S E E . D T H T E H E M A T R E E A R I R E A L . M A N B Y A N A L I E D E L E A M S E C A N N N T O T S B E I N V O L R E S V C U E E D D I N A B W O R K Y O F B A E R A U T T . I F T H U L E M O E S T X E I C M U T I O N P O R . T I T I A S N T D I F F I A R E C U L T T H T O B U N G E L E M A O S T G O O D O B I V D I E A O U S . . I F W H E A N A N N A A R R T T I S T I S T U L E S E A R N S S H I S C T R A H F E T T O S A O W E L L M E F O R M H E I N A M A G R K O U P E S O S L F I W C K O R A R T K . S A T N D C H H A E N S G E E S E S N T E T H E N C M E S A C O M M T E E N R T I A L , O O N N E A R T , B U T A R E N O T A R T . mwp ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:12:54 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: anthology of american poetry - need a recommendation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear poetry friends, I'm holding in my hand a yellowing mass-market paperback of the _Mentor Book of Major American Poets_. This edition from 1960 is still in print. It begins with Edward Taylor and ends with Hart Crane. (Actually it ends with Auden--- wha??) (and there's no Bradstreet!!) This book is no good. I need like a Norton Anthology of American Poetry, Anne Bradstreet through 1975 or something. Not a book that attempts to bring the record right up to current, but something that at least has Ashbery and Ginsberg in it. With good footnotes, etc. Suggestions? I'm sure one of you book wonks out there can tell me exactly what I need. Estimably, Aaron S. Belz ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:08:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Kiosk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rae--this happens to me all the time. My computer seems deaf to the distinction itoffers between listwide and private. So good to meet up in Seattle. Your new poems are a thrill and I only wish 'd heard more.I'm sorry if went on too long--that spabnish poem was a bear.Be well--David ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 01:14:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Transmissions and Empires MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Transmissions and Empires the following list of representative countries and domains was gathered from google - the first 100 entries of the (anglicized) country name filtered to the domain. the british commonwealth has a strong showing; the u.s. is weak, taking .com, .mil, etc. for granted. some countries divide among others. google of course is never neutral, and the search was in the linguistic empire of english. antarctica "an", "0" australia "au", "92" belgium "be", "61" brazil "br", "42" britain "uk", "54" canada "ca", "91" chile "cl", "73" china "cn", "23" cocos islands "cc", "4" colombia "co", "49" east timor "tp", "4" egypt "eg", "24" falkland islands "fk", "22" fiji "fj", "30" finland "fi", "85" france "fr", "66" gabon "ga", "0" germany "de", "79" greenland "gl", "38" grenada "gd", "1" iceland "is", "62" india "in", "12" iran "ir", "7" iraq "iq", "0" israel "il", "50" italy "it", "51" japan "jp", "66" korea "kr", "54" malawi "mw", "10" marshall islands "mh", "1" mexico "mx", "21" mongolia "mn", "25" new zealand "nz", "78" philippines "ph", "38" pitcairn "pn", "9" russia "ru", "43" rwanda "rw", "7" saudi arabia "sa", "8" slovenia "si", "69" somalia "so", "2" south africa "za", "78" tajikistan "tj", "3" tonga "to", "16" united arab emirates "ae", "28" united states "us", "1" vatican "va", "35" vietnam "vn", "16" __ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 22:41:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: Kiosk In-Reply-To: <003201c31e8d$f520dee0$5396ccd1@CeceliaBelle> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Rae--this happens to me all the time. My computer seems deaf to the >distinction itoffers between listwide and private. So good to meet up in >Seattle. Your new poems are a thrill and I only wish 'd heard more.I'm sorry >if went on too long--that spabnish poem was a bear.Be well--David Wish I had been there. But not really, because then I might not have made it to the Wah Bash in Calgary; anyway, I want to report that the latter was a hoot at all times, and also that Bromige's new poems, read here in Vancouver by the poet, were spectacularly good. -- George Bowering Taller than Charles Bernstein Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 23:34:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: S U D D E N L Y N O In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Preliminary investigation into the controlled breakdown of meaning. A PEEK UNDER THE HOOD: What I am doing here is interweaving a text (Text A) with itself (Text B), selecting from Text A at its current position if the binary control-pattern is 0, and from Text B's current position if it is a 1. The pattern being used in this particular case is: $tptA = "0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 6 5 4 3 2 1"; $tptB = "7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6"; What follows is an excerpt. . . AFTER BECKETT Suddenly, no, at last, long last. . . 0---------1---------2---------3---------4---------5---------6--- 0123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123 S S U D D E N L Y U D N O A T L A S D E N T L O N G L L Y N O A S T I C A T L A S O U L D T L O N G L N ' T A S T I C O U A N L D N ' T A N Y Y M O R E I C O M O U L D N ' T R E I G O O N S C O U L O M E O D N ' T G N E S O O N S O M A I E O N E S A I D D Y O U C A N ' Y O T S T A Y H E U C A R E I C O U N ' T S L D N ' T T A Y H E S T A Y R E I C O U T H E L D N ' T S T R E A Y T H E R E A A N D I C O U L N D D N ' T G O I C O O N I ' L U L D N L D E S ' T G O O C R I N I ' L L D B E E S C R I B E T T H E P L A C E H E T H A T ' S U P L A N I M P O R C E T H T A N T T A T ' S U H E T O N I M P O R P V E T A N T T H E R Y T O P V E R Y F F L A T O F A M L A O U N T A I T O F N N O A H A M O U I L L B N T A I N U T S N O A H I L O W L B U T S O W I I L D S O W I L L D D E N O U G H S O W Q U A G H E I L D E A T H U P N O U G H T O T H Q U A G H E E K N A T H U P T O E E T H E K N E E S S F A I N T S H F A E E P - T R I N T A C K S T S H E E R O U G P - T R A H S S C K S T R O C O U G H S S C O O O P E D D E E P P E B Y T H E R A D D E M S I T W A E P B Y S F A R D T H E R A O W N I M S I T W A N O N S F A R D O W E O N I N O N E O F F T H E S E I W T H A S L Y I N E S E G O U T O I W A S F T H E L Y I N G W I N O U T O F T D G H E W I N D G L L O R I O U S P O R R O S P E C T I O U B U T F O R S P R O T H E M I S P E C T S T T H B U T F O R A T B T H E M I S T L O T H A T B L O T T T E D O U T E T E V E R Y T H D O U I N G V A T E V E L L E Y R Y T H I S L O N G V A L L U G E Y S L O U G H H S P L A I N A S P N D S E A H O L A I W C A N I G N A N D O O N I S S E A H O H O U L W C A N I G D N ' O O N I S H O T H U L D N ' T H A A V E B E G U N V E N O I H A D B E G T O B E G U N N O I N S O I H A D T M E O O B E G I N N E S O M E O N E S S A I D P E R H A I A P S T H E S D P E A M E W H A R H A P T P O S S S T H E S E S S E A M E W H A D Y O T P O S S E S U T S E D Y O U T O O C O M E ? I C C O O U L D H A M E ? V E S T A I C O U Y E D I L D H A V N M Y E S T A Y E D E D I N M Y D E N N S N U G A N D S N D R Y I C O U U G A L D N ' T M N D D R Y D E N I Y I C O U ' L L D L D N ' T M E S C Y D E N I ' L R I L D E S C R I B B E I T N O I C E I A N ' T I T T N O ' S S I M I C A N P L E I ' T I T ' C A N S S I M P L D O E I C A N D O N N O T H I N G A O T N Y M O R E T H I N H A T ' S W G A N Y H A T Y O M O R E T U T H I H A T ' S W N K I H A T Y O U T S A H I N K I S A Y Y T O T H E B O T O D Y U P W I T H E T H Y O U B O D Y N O W A U P W I T N D I H Y O U N O C A W A N D I C A N N F E E L I T S F E T R U G G L I E L I N G L I K E T S T R A N O L D U G G L I H A C K N G L I K E F O U A N O L D H A N D C K F O U N D E E R E D I N T H R E E S T R E E D I N T S T R U T H E S G G L I T R E E T N G N S T R U G G O M L I N G N O M O O R E S T R U G R E G L I N G A G S T R A I N T I L U G G L L I T G I I N G A G V E S U A I N T I L P I S L I T G I V E A Y S U P I S A Y T T O T H E H E A O T D L E A V E H E H I T A L O E A D L N E S T E A V E I A Y Q T A L O N E U I S T A Y Q U I E E T I T S T O P T I S B R E A T H T S T I N G T H E O P S B N P A N T R E A T H S O N W I N G T H E O R S N P A N T S O E T N W O R S E T H H A N E V E R I A N A M F A R F E V E R O M A L R I A M L T H A F A R F R T W R O M A L L T A N H A T W R A N G G L E I S H O U L E L D N ' T B O I S H T H E R W I O U L D T H I T I N ' T B O N E E D T H E R W I N O T T H I T I N E H I E D N O T H I N N G N E I T H E G N R T O G O O E I T N N O R T H E R T O S T A O G O O N Y W H N O R T O S E R T A Y W H E R E E I A M I T ' S I A T R U L Y A L M I T L O N E T O ' S T R M E I S H U L Y A L O U L D L O N E T O T U R M E I S H O U N A L D T U R N A W W A Y F R O M I A Y T A L L A W F R O A Y F R O M I T A M T H E L L A W A B O D Y F R O M T Y A H E B O D Y A W W A Y F R O M T A Y H E H E A D L F R O E T T H E M M T H E W O R K I H E A D L T O U T E T T H E M B E T W O R K I T O W E U T B E T W E E E N T H E M L E N T T T H E M C H E M E A S E I L E T T C A N ' H E M C E T I T A S E I C A ' S N ' T I T ' S I I W O U L D H A W O V E T O C E A U L D S E A H Y E H A V E S W E S E T O C E A E M T O S E A H Y E B E M S W E S E E M O R T O B E M O R E E T H A N O N E T H A L L D E A A N O F N O T E N E A L V E N G L D E A F A T H N O T E V E E R N G A T H E R E E D T O G E T H D T E R F O R L I O G E F E A N O T T H E R H E R S A F O R L I I D O R F E A N O T T H E H E R S A I D S A O R T H E S A M M E O R T H E F E O I R S T T H R T H E Y A L L E F I R H A V E S T T H E T H E Y A L L H A S A V E T H E S A M M E V O I C E T E V H E S A M E I O I C D E A S A L E T H E L Y O U H S A M E I A D T O D E A S A L D O W L Y O U H A D A S T O D O W A S S S T A Y A T H O T A M E H O M E Y A T T H E Y W H O M E A N T E H O M E T D M E H E Y W A N T O T E D M E T O G G O H O M E M Y O H D W E L L I N O M E G - P L A C M Y D W E B U T F E L L I N O R T H G - P L A C E M I E B U T F O R S T T H E M I S T W W I T H G O O D I T E Y E S W I H G O T H A T E O D E Y L E S C E S W I T O P E H A T E L E I C S C O P E I C O O U L D S E E I U L T F R O M H E D S E R E I T ' S E I T F N O T J U R O M H E S T T I R E I T ' S R E D N O T J U S T N E T I R E D N E S S S I ' M N O T S I J U S T T I ' M N R E D I N O T J U S P I T S T T I R E O F E D I N S P T H I T E O F T H E E C L I M B I T C L ' S N O T T H I M B A T I W A N I T ' S T T O S T N O T T H A Y H E A T I W A N R E E T T O S T A Y I T H E R E E I T H H E R I H A D H E R E A R D T E I H A L L I M U D H E A S T H A R D T E L V E H L I M U S T E A H A V E H E A D D T E L L O F T T E H E V I E W T L L O H E D I S T F T H E A N T S E V I E W T A I N H H E D I S T A M M A N T S E A I E R N H A M M E R E E D L E A D T H D L E S O - C A E A D L L E D G T H E S O L D E O - C A L N V A L E D G O L L E D E N V A L E S S O O F T E N S O O U N G T H E D F T E O U B L E V N S U N A L L E Y G T H E D S T H E O U B L E V G L A A L L E Y S T C I H E G L A C I A A L L O U G H S L L T H E C I T O U G Y I N I T H S T H S H A Z E C I T Y E I T I N I T S H W A A Z E I T W A S S A L L O N E V A L E R Y T O N G L O N U E W H O A E V E R R E T H E Y T O N G S E P E U E W H O A O P L R E T H E S E E A P E O P L E A N N Y W A Y ? D I Y W D T H E Y F A Y ? O L L O W D I D T M E U P H E Y F O H E R L L O W M E E G U P H E R E G O O B E F O R E M B E E C O M E W I F O R T H M E ) I E M E C A M D O W O M E W I N I N T T H M E ) I H E H A M D O W N I O L N T H E H O L E E T H E C E N T T H U R I E S H E C E A V E D U N T U R G C E N I E S H A T U R V E D U G C I E E N T U R I E S S O F F I L T H O F Y W E A T H E F I L R F L A T O T H Y W N M Y F A E A T H E C E O N R F L A T O T H E N M Y F A C E D A O N T H E D A R R K E A R T H S K E O D D E N W A R T I T H T H H S O D E C R E D E N W I E P I T H T H E C N G R E E P I N G S S A F F R O N W A F A T E R S I T F R O S L O W L Y N W A T D R I N K E R S I T S T H E S L O W L Y Y A R D R I N K S T E U H E Y A R E U P P A B O V E A L A B L R O U N D O V E M E A S I A L L R N A G R O U N D M A V E E A S I N A Y A G R A V E Y A R R D I C A N ' T D I R A I S E M Y C A N E Y E S T O ' T R A T H E M W I S E M Y H A T A E Y E S T O P I T T H E M W H A Y I T A P I T Y I W W O U L D N ' T O U S E E T H E L D N I R F A C ' T S E E S T H E T H E I E I R R F A C E S L E T H E I R L E G G S P E R H A P S P S P L U N G E E R H D I N T H E A P S P H E A T H L U N G E D O T H D I N T H E E Y S H E A T H D O E E T H E Y S E E M M E W H A T C A E W N T H E Y S H A T E E O F M C A N T E ? P E H E Y S E R H A E O F M E ? P S P E R H A P S T T H E R E I S N H E O O N E L E F R E I T P E R H A S N O O P S T H E N E L E F Y A R E T P E R H A A L L P S T H E Y A G O R E A L L G O N N E S I C K E N E S E D I L I S I C K T E N A N E N E D D I T ' I L I S T S T H E N A N D I E S T ' S T H E S A A M E T H O U G M E H T S I H E A T H O R I M E A N U G H T T H E S A S I H E A M E A S R I M E A N E V E T H E S A M E R S A S E V E R S T T R A N G E T O R A T H I N K I N G E N T H E V T O T H A L L E I N K I N Y T H T H E V A L E S L E Y T H E S [etc.] mwp ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:04:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Scroggins Subject: Re: Theory of Practice according to the Dalai Lama In-Reply-To: <3EC17BB5.1EE57360@delhi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v546) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lloyd Bentsen addressing Dan Quayle in 1988; I'd call it less a canard than a plain statement of fact. On Tuesday, May 13, 2003, at 07:11 PM, Kirby Olson wrote: > Stephen, > > I was jokingly referring to that political canard where some contender > says, > "You're no John F. Kennedy," or "You're no Martin Luther King," .... ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 04:26:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0017-#0020 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0017-#0020 and China. A and China. A two studs arrived, two studs arrived, two studs arrived, opposed to opposed to and China. A waiter; I can call waiter; I can call Avory, "is to Avory, "is to Avory, "is to waiter; I can call blizzard, blizzard, and in your inmost and in your inmost and in your inmost from the humidity. from the humidity. blizzard, walk without his walk without his stockpile stockpile stockpile as elsewhere. as elsewhere. walk without his and senses. Faith and senses. Faith one day explain one day explain one day explain of her mother. She of her mother. She and senses. Faith four years ago.' four years ago.' afterwards moved afterwards moved afterwards moved types it operates types it operates four years ago.' A crowd had by now A crowd had by now to his master's to his master's to his master's winter dragged on. winter dragged on. A crowd had by now NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0018 street door street door is forgotten, but is forgotten, but is forgotten, but singel arching her brows. barked furiously, singel arching her brows. barked furiously, street door It looked like any It looked like any excited animals at excited animals at excited animals at known through known through It looked like any the fabric of his the fabric of his experiment and you experiment and you experiment and you expiration of expiration of the fabric of his love few children love few children false step on Sam's false step on Sam's false step on Sam's darkness, the -capabilities. darkness, the -capabilities. love few children pleasure of this pleasure of this directive directive directive possible; and possible; and pleasure of this slope, among the slope, among the officer, used to officer, used to officer, used to we took space we took space slope, among the needs," said needs," said weapons were often weapons were often weapons were often replied George, replied George, needs," said saying: saying: itself, but a itself, but a itself, but a ROBERT, "THAT'S FUN, ROBERT, "THAT'S FUN, saying: Isolationism "There Isolationism "There out of the coach out of the coach out of the coach he had thus he had thus Isolationism "There NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0019 particular purpose particular purpose methods that it methods that it methods that it has come in looking has come in looking particular purpose thought of his thought of his the Obrutchanovo the Obrutchanovo the Obrutchanovo bailie's three bailie's three thought of his the humiliations of the humiliations of joke, and even joke, and even joke, and even What he had What he had the humiliations of ordinary minds ordinary minds experiences which I experiences which I experiences which I so precious hot so precious hot ordinary minds says guys like it says guys like it the stairs the stairs the stairs Camping Grounds. He Camping Grounds. He says guys like it a bit; the other a bit; the other Five days had Five days had Five days had to tell it. The to tell it. The a bit; the other the world. the world. quite reverenced as quite reverenced as quite reverenced as weaver-'No, my Lord, only weaver-'No, my Lord, only the world. and looked round. . and looked round. . the hidden Truth the hidden Truth the hidden Truth "Very well, then," "Very well, then," and looked round. . NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0020 to myself, to put to myself, to put what! What what! What what! What fighters or SAMs, fighters or SAMs, to myself, to put skins and grizzly -"I THINK IT'S FUN skins and grizzly -"I THINK IT'S FUN National National National desire and it desire and it skins and grizzly -"I THINK IT'S FUN Detection," by Detection," by me, positioning my me, positioning my me, positioning my alter my mode of alter my mode of Detection," by officers and officers and decaying skeletons decaying skeletons officers and laughed again, laughed again, where the unusual where the unusual where the unusual I don't place much I don't place much laughed again, to leave it that to leave it that one of the best one of the best to leave it that AUGUST HIGHLAND --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 04:28:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0021 - #0024 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0021 - #0024 apartment. This apartment. This perennial, perennial, perennial, values. We should values. We should apartment. This "Landowners, too-oo! "Landowners, too-oo! return return return uncomfortable uncomfortable "Landowners, too-oo! Seppi. Seppi. goodness to goodness to goodness to down again. The down again. The Seppi. destroying the destroying the was incredible was incredible was incredible O seekers, we will O seekers, we will destroying the nearest nearest and down your pussy -years. "Good-day, brothers, and down your pussy -years. "Good-day, brothers, and down your pussy -years. "Good-day, brothers, Angie moaned as Angie moaned as nearest in the Middle East. in the Middle East. little children," little children," little children," 'Oh, dear me, I 'Oh, dear me, I in the Middle East. in again in smaller in again in smaller Snuphanuph.' Snuphanuph.' Snuphanuph.' Seppi. Seppi. in again in smaller have a caravan have a caravan and threw himself and threw himself and threw himself have a caravan completely sewn up, completely sewn up, Martin, was a Martin, was a Martin, was a shop off the shop off the completely sewn up, mention it. I mention it. I from his from his from his screech of his own screech of his own mention it. I Recognising Him Recognising Him affairs, Maitland affairs, Maitland affairs, Maitland Representatives. Representatives. Recognising Him Acquisition Status: Acquisition Status: gun or missile that gun or missile that gun or missile that gentleman"! Mrs. gentleman"! Mrs. Acquisition Status: fewest fewest have hazarded a have hazarded a have hazarded a the seventh time the seventh time fewest jacking off a guy, jacking off a guy, same hand that had same hand that had same hand that had Alamos. "We don't Alamos. "We don't jacking off a guy, NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0022 never have a clock, never have a clock, this terrible this terrible this terrible effort? effort? never have a clock, pro-wall, and pro-wall, and always, that the always, that the always, that the given a scuffle to given a scuffle to pro-wall, and completely swept completely swept went went went uncle, looking in uncle, looking in completely swept clergyman. clergyman. behind which the behind which the clergyman. not hear it at all. not hear it at all. daughters, and the daughters, and the daughters, and the not hear it at all. of of and his nephew, and and his nephew, and and his nephew, and is as lead is as lead of ADVERTISER, ADVERTISER, but also "the but also "the but also "the hope I've somethin' hope I've somethin' ADVERTISER, deep crimson roses, deep crimson roses, but we heard no but we heard no but we heard no exhibit any exhibit any deep crimson roses, NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0023 see that you like see that you like military advice not military advice not military advice not that box; it's got that box; it's got see that you like was wise--a pig of was wise--a pig of cruel ebullition of cruel ebullition of cruel ebullition of It is a great It is a great was wise--a pig of once again all once again all areas behind the areas behind the areas behind the his load in her his load in her once again all sort of people, and sort of people, and placed a splash of placed a splash of placed a splash of secret declared by secret declared by sort of people, and from the village, from the village, finger up my ass finger up my ass finger up my ass my opinion that my opinion that from the village, -It was about the -It was about the came from," and he came from," and he came from," and he You are distinct You are distinct -It was about the Daddy, and Daddy, and match the inflation match the inflation match the inflation slowly, feeling her slowly, feeling her Daddy, and undergone by undergone by faith, devotion and faith, devotion and faith, devotion and implosion, nuclear implosion, nuclear undergone by NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0024 everyone. "The half everyone. "The half against larger against larger against larger strong enough into strong enough into everyone. "The half pondering on what pondering on what complete mastery complete mastery complete mastery pondering on what the ends of his the ends of his the ends of his to a day when we to a day when we younger, Stepan, younger, Stepan, earnings are earnings are forth his arms, and forth his arms, and forth his arms, and earnings are room of theirs in room of theirs in anywhere, so I anywhere, so I anywhere, so I try to live a noble try to live a noble room of theirs in There is a great There is a great imaginable. The imaginable. The imaginable. The There is a great AUGUST HIGHLAND --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:36:11 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Calling Admiral Poindexter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A Spy Machine of Darpa's Dreams By Noah Shachtman Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,58909,00.html 02:00 AM May. 20, 2003 PT It's a memory aid! A robotic assistant! An epidemic detector! An all-seeing, ultra-intrusive spying program! The Pentagon is about to embark on a stunningly ambitious research project designed to gather every conceivable bit of information about a person's life, index it and make it searchable. What national security experts and civil libertarians want to know is, why would the Defense Department want to do such a thing? The embryonic LifeLog program would dump everything an individual does into a giant database: every e-mail sent or received, every picture taken, every Web page surfed, every phone call made, every TV show watched, every magazine read. All of this -- and more -- would combine with information gleaned from a variety of sources: a GPS transmitter to keep tabs on where that person went; audio-visual sensors to capture what he or she sees or says; and biomedical monitors to keep track of the individual's health. This gigantic amalgamation of personal information could then be used to "trace the 'threads' of an individual's life," to see exactly how a relationship or events developed, according to a briefing from the Defense Advanced Projects Research Agency, LifeLog's sponsor. Someone with access to the database could "retrieve a specific thread of past transactions, or recall an experience from a few seconds ago or from many years earlier . by using a search-engine interface." On the surface, the project seems like the latest in a long line of Darpa's "blue sky" research efforts, most of which never make it out of the lab. But Steven Aftergood, a defense analyst with the Federation of American Scientists, says he is worried. With its controversial Total Information Awareness database project, Darpa already is planning on tracking all of an individual's "transactional data" -- like what we buy and who gets our e-mail. Aftergood said he believes LifeLog could go far beyond that, adding physical information (like how we feel) and media data (like what we read) to this transactional data. "LifeLog has the potential to become something like 'TIA cubed,'" he said. In the private sector, a number of LifeLog-like efforts already are underway to digitally archive one's life -- to create a "surrogate memory," as minicomputer pioneer Gordon Bell calls it. Bell, now with Microsoft, scans all his letters and memos, records his conversations, saves all the Web pages he's visited and e-mails he's received and puts them into an electronic storehouse dubbed MyLifeBits. Darpa's LifeLog would take this concept several steps further by tracking where people go and what they see. That makes the project similar to the work of University of Toronto professor Steve Mann. Since his teen years in the 1970s, Mann, a self-styled "cyborg," has worn a camera and an array of sensors to record his existence. He claims he's convinced 20 to 30 of his current and former students to do the same. It's all part of an experiment into "existential technology" and "the metaphysics of free will." Darpa isn't quite so philosophical about LifeLog. But the agency does see some potential battlefield uses for the program. "The technology could allow the military to develop computerized assistants for warfighters and commanders that can be more effective because they can easily access the user's past experiences," Darpa spokeswoman Jan Walker speculated in an e-mail. It also could allow the military to develop more efficient computerized training systems, she said: Computers could remember how each student learns and interacts with the training system, then tailor the lessons accordingly. John Pike, director of defense think tank GlobalSecurity.org, said he finds the explanations "hard to believe." "It looks like an outgrowth of Total Information Awareness and other Darpa homeland security surveillance programs," he added in an e-mail. Sure, LifeLog could be used to train robotic assistants. But it also could become a way to profile suspected terrorists, said Cory Doctorow, with the Electronic Frontier Foundation. In other words, Osama bin Laden's agent takes a walk around the block at 10 each morning, buys a bagel and a newspaper at the corner store and then calls his mother. You do the same things -- so maybe you're an al Qaeda member, too! "The more that an individual's characteristic behavior patterns -- 'routines, relationships, and habits' -- can be represented in digital form, the easier it would become to distinguish among different individuals, or to monitor one," Aftergood, the Federation of American Scientists analyst, wrote in an e-mail. In its LifeLog report, Darpa makes some nods to privacy protection, like when it suggests that "properly anonymized access to LifeLog data might support medical research and the early detection of an emerging epidemic." But before these grand plans get underway, LifeLog will start small. Right now, Darpa is asking industry and academics to submit proposals for 18-month research efforts, with a possible 24-month extension. (Darpa is not sure yet how much money it will sink into the program.) The researchers will be the centerpiece of their own study. Like a game show, winning this Darpa prize eventually will earn the lucky scientists a trip for three to Washington, D.C. Except on this excursion, every participating scientist's e-mail to the travel agent, every padded bar bill and every mad lunge for a cab will be monitored, categorized and later dissected. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:47:26 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: anthology of american poetry - need a recommendation Comments: To: aaron@BELZ.NET Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Aaron, I like Cary Nelson's Modern American Poetry anthology (2000) = which has the added benefit of a very useful and burgeoning website. But = it's really 20th century, with Whitman and Dickinson. Glad to hear you're = insistent on Bradstreet: maybe a claim could be made for her as a 20th = century poet: certainly her subject matter would qualify her. Don't know = how she got away with breaking so many rules. Early Americanists out = there: please explain. Mairead Mair=E9ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> aaron@BELZ.NET 05/19/03 23:23 PM >>> Dear poetry friends, I'm holding in my hand a yellowing mass-market paperback of the _Mentor Book of Major American Poets_. This edition from 1960 is still in print. It begins with Edward Taylor and ends with Hart Crane. (Actually it ends with Auden--- wha??) (and there's no Bradstreet!!) This book is no good. I need like a Norton Anthology of American Poetry, Anne Bradstreet through 1975 or something. Not a book that attempts to bring the record right up to current, but something that at least has Ashbery and Ginsberg in it. With good footnotes, etc. Suggestions? I'm sure one of you book wonks out there can tell me exactly what I need. Estimably, Aaron S. Belz ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:20:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: EMF @ Chelsea Art Museum In-Reply-To: <000001c31ecc$6909d6c0$14f3f343@Dell> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a range of noteworthy "word & music" events happening in NYC in early June which the Electronic Music Foundation is producing on June 3, 4 and 5 at the Chelsea Art Museum, W 22nd Street and 11th Avenue. It's one of the most beautiful spaces in New York. Check it out: Concert 1 Tuesday, June 3 at 8pm. Words & Music Chris Mann's Plato Songs. The space as larynx: F is always in speaker 5, A is always speaker 7, T is always 12 .... 16 speakers, 42 phonemes, 1 voice, real-time spectral analysis software solution by Holland Hopson and R. Luke DuBois, text by Chris Mann. Joel Chadabe's Many Times Chris. Mann reads and Chadabe electronically multiplies and transforms his voice, sending it around the room, left, right, up, down, everywhere, so that it all becomes a fascinating verbal and musical fabric. Joan La Barbara / Kenneth Goldsmith's 73 Poems. La Barbara performs her timbral settings and transformations of Kenneth Goldsmith's words, bringing poetry and sound into an intimate symbiosis. Concert 2 Wednesday, June 4 at 8pm Ne(x)tworks Ne(x)tworks is a new group of performing composers presenting a program of original electro-acoustic music, including previews of two new operas by Kenji Bunch and Joan La Barbara in addition to works by other members of the group. Joan La Barbara, voice Cornelius Dufallo, violin Jesse Mills, violin Kenji Bunch, viola Rubin Kodheli, cello Tim Kiah, double bass Chris Vatalaro, percussion Brian McWhorter, trumpet and electronics Taimur Sullivan, saxophones Chris Mcintyre, trombone Concert 3 Thursday, June 5 at 6pm and 8pm Alvin Lucier Retrospective A conversation at 6pm with this sound art pioneer. Then at 8 ... Music for Solo Performer, for performer with EEG pickup, amplifiers, and percussion instruments. Lucier transmits his amplified alpha brain waves to vibrate percussion instruments placed around the hall. Bird and Person Dyning, for performer with microphones, amplifiers, loudspeakers and electric birdcall. Lucier utilizes time delays between birdcalls and microphones to produce heterodyning which results in phantom sound images. Disappearances, for string quartet. The Ne(x)tworks string quartet, realizing Lucier's poetic and musical instructions, alters timbre and produces special acoustic phenomena through slight variations in intonation. Wave Songs, for female voice with pure wave oscillators, based on 11 Wave Paintings of artist Lee Lozano. Joan La Barbara sings with precisely pitched intonation, exploring the musical space between pure waves and slow pulsing rhythms resulting from the delicate interaction of live performer microtonally interacting with oscillators. Chelsea Art Museum 556 West 22nd Street (corner 11th Avenue) New York -- ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Else. c: 518 225 7123 o: 518 442 40 85 -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:47:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: 5/19/25 a great american's birthday Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed this via carrol cox at isu > "If you are not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people >who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the >oppressing." > >Malcolm Little (Malcolm X) born this day Omaha, Nebraska ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 07:58:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: Calling Admiral Poindexter MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Time to start hacking, kiddies... bliss l Ron : A Spy Machine of Darpa's Dreams By Noah Shachtman Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,58909,00.html 02:00 AM May. 20, 2003 PT It's a memory aid! A robotic assistant! An epidemic detector! An all-seeing, ultra-intrusive spying program! The Pentagon is about to embark on a stunningly ambitious research project designed to gather every conceivable bit of information about a person's life, index it and make it searchable. What national security experts and civil libertarians want to know is, why would the Defense Department want to do such a thing? The embryonic LifeLog program would dump everything an individual does into a giant database: every e-mail sent or received, every picture taken, every Web page surfed, every phone call made, every TV show watched, every magazine read. All of this -- and more -- would combine with information gleaned from a variety of sources: a GPS transmitter to keep tabs on where that person went; audio-visual sensors to capture what he or she sees or says; and biomedical monitors to keep track of the individual's health. This gigantic amalgamation of personal information could then be used to "trace the 'threads' of an individual's life," to see exactly how a relationship or events developed, according to a briefing from the Defense Advanced Projects Research Agency, LifeLog's sponsor. Someone with access to the database could "retrieve a specific thread of past transactions, or recall an experience from a few seconds ago or from many years earlier . by using a search-engine interface." On the surface, the project seems like the latest in a long line of Darpa's "blue sky" research efforts, most of which never make it out of the lab. But Steven Aftergood, a defense analyst with the Federation of American Scientists, says he is worried. With its controversial Total Information Awareness database project, Darpa already is planning on tracking all of an individual's "transactional data" -- like what we buy and who gets our e-mail. Aftergood said he believes LifeLog could go far beyond that, adding physical information (like how we feel) and media data (like what we read) to this transactional data. "LifeLog has the potential to become something like 'TIA cubed,'" he said. In the private sector, a number of LifeLog-like efforts already are underway to digitally archive one's life -- to create a "surrogate memory," as minicomputer pioneer Gordon Bell calls it. Bell, now with Microsoft, scans all his letters and memos, records his conversations, saves all the Web pages he's visited and e-mails he's received and puts them into an electronic storehouse dubbed MyLifeBits. Darpa's LifeLog would take this concept several steps further by tracking where people go and what they see. That makes the project similar to the work of University of Toronto professor Steve Mann. Since his teen years in the 1970s, Mann, a self-styled "cyborg," has worn a camera and an array of sensors to record his existence. He claims he's convinced 20 to 30 of his current and former students to do the same. It's all part of an experiment into "existential technology" and "the metaphysics of free will." Darpa isn't quite so philosophical about LifeLog. But the agency does see some potential battlefield uses for the program. "The technology could allow the military to develop computerized assistants for warfighters and commanders that can be more effective because they can easily access the user's past experiences," Darpa spokeswoman Jan Walker speculated in an e-mail. It also could allow the military to develop more efficient computerized training systems, she said: Computers could remember how each student learns and interacts with the training system, then tailor the lessons accordingly. John Pike, director of defense think tank GlobalSecurity.org, said he finds the explanations "hard to believe." "It looks like an outgrowth of Total Information Awareness and other Darpa homeland security surveillance programs," he added in an e-mail. Sure, LifeLog could be used to train robotic assistants. But it also could become a way to profile suspected terrorists, said Cory Doctorow, with the Electronic Frontier Foundation. In other words, Osama bin Laden's agent takes a walk around the block at 10 each morning, buys a bagel and a newspaper at the corner store and then calls his mother. You do the same things -- so maybe you're an al Qaeda member, too! "The more that an individual's characteristic behavior patterns -- 'routines, relationships, and habits' -- can be represented in digital form, the easier it would become to distinguish among different individuals, or to monitor one," Aftergood, the Federation of American Scientists analyst, wrote in an e-mail. In its LifeLog report, Darpa makes some nods to privacy protection, like when it suggests that "properly anonymized access to LifeLog data might support medical research and the early detection of an emerging epidemic." But before these grand plans get underway, LifeLog will start small. Right now, Darpa is asking industry and academics to submit proposals for 18-month research efforts, with a possible 24-month extension. (Darpa is not sure yet how much money it will sink into the program.) The researchers will be the centerpiece of their own study. Like a game show, winning this Darpa prize eventually will earn the lucky scientists a trip for three to Washington, D.C. Except on this excursion, every participating scientist's e-mail to the travel agent, every padded bar bill and every mad lunge for a cab will be monitored, categorized and later dissected. ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:04:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: from Dirty Milk Comments: To: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was living in the desert, and my dead stepfather was concerned about the water. You use too much, he said: you're fat and thought and flesh. It was true that my thighs whispered when I walked. the season all out of proportion with you the sum of early spring eats the taper from her wrists I went to wash my hands of the cold desert night. The sink basin teemed with carnivorous fish. They slid and splashed in my denial. When I turned the water on, they quickened. They begin to eat each other with an angry hunger. ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:48:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: POG, this Saturday evening: SUPER-POTLUCK (rent party) to follow Salerno/Wilson reading: please come! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit POG presents a super-potluck (aka rent party) Saturday, May 24 9 pm till whenever Tucson Blvd. / E 8th Street area following the POG reading by poets Mark Salerno and Keith Wilson 7pm at MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) 191 E. Toole Ave. (NW corner of Toole 6th Ave, downtown) Please join us for our annual spring super-potluck (aka rent party), our final extravaganza to balance our 2002-2003 programming budget (we need to raise a few hundred dollars). · bring something to eat and/or something to drink · bring some $ to drop in the rent-party pot · enjoy good food, good drink, good company, & relaxed, comfortable patio dining Please join us even if you can’t make it to the reading. For address, directions, or other details please email pog at mailto:pog@gopog.org or phone 615-7803. If you can’t join us, please put some $ in the virtual POG pot: · send a check made out to POG to: POG, 5029 N Post Trail, Tucson AZ 85750 (or place it in Tenney Nathanson’s mailbox at UA English Dept.) · or email your pledge to mailto:pog@gopog.org. We hope to see you this Saturday! *** POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:31:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Arielle Greenberg Subject: Re: anthology of american poetry - need a recommendation In-Reply-To: <01de01c31e7d$b70cf1d0$45d9bed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Aaron and all, In fact, Norton has just put out an anthology called _The Norton Anthology of Modern and Contemporary Poetry_. It's enormous--two volumes--but starts with Whitman, so probably not early enough for you, Aaron, but it's still pretty cool. It includes a lot of rather unusual suspects (Reznikoff, Oppen) along with the more typical fare, plus poetics. I'm personally pretty psyched about it. Arielle __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:36:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: some thought contained In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit some thought contained impressions weather nonchalant accidentals about how the hand no longer works a mother-child's spell chairs allusion in private injury those apropos prosthetics cordless elsewheres biweekly stasis held in old leather births near dreams or down bark grief crimes one could never complete walleted in some thought contained ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:42:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Re: anthology of american poetry - need a recommendation In-Reply-To: <01de01c31e7d$b70cf1d0$45d9bed0@belzjones1500.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Aaron Beltz said:\ >I'm holding in my hand a yellowing mass-market paperback of the >_Mentor Book of Major American Poets_. This edition from 1960 is >still in print. . . . This book is no good. To which I add: Damn right it's no good. Many of the texts are corrupt. >I need like a Norton Anthology of American Poetry, Anne Bradstreet through 1975 or >something. To which I say: ain't no such animal. Try Library of America if posible; or make up your own. ======================================= Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver B.C. Canada V6A 1Y7 voice 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ======================================= ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:43:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Request for advice regarding course on war literature In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi everyone, I am teaching a junior-level required advanced composition course in a management program (at the Culinary Institute of America). This semester I decided to focus the course on writings about war and tried to choose books that focused more on how folks experience war, and how they represent war, and maybe less directly on what the particular politics of a given war were, though when and how the question of the politics comes in provides our most fruitful discussions. The problem is that I required the book "9/12" by Eliot Weinberger based on how it was described to me ("personal account of a New York City resident the day after, the week after, the month after, and the year after 9/11/01"); I'm finding it specifically political and mostly political. The other books I'm using are The Things They Carry by Tim O'Brien, A Novel Without a Name by Duong Thu Huoung, Memory for Forgetfulness by Mahmoud Darwish, Azimuth by Rachel Tzvia Back, and Bosnia Elegies by Adrian Oktenberg. So my double question is 1) am I copping out by not wanting to use "9/12" for its blatant and fierce politics? (Even Darwish, in the particular book I'm using, touches on the politics only lightly) 2) does anyone know of any powerful, human 9/11 writing that I might use in the course, regardless of what I decide about "9/12"? It's not quite an "academic" question--I teach at a small, fairly conservative school. Whether or not I will take heat for my classroom choice is (seriously) of no real concern to me in this book selection; what *is* a concern is the integrity of the students' education: what I can expect them to learn if I sweeten it, what I can expect them to reject because it comes on too strong. I'm looking forward to hearing some good advice from you gang. Kazim ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:29:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: In Memoriam Richard caddel 1949-2003 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For those interested, there's a quite extensive gathering of tributes (poetry and prose) to, and pictures of, Richard Caddel in the latest issue of Jacket: http://jacketmagazine/22/caddel/html ======================== He that oppresseth the Poor to increase his Riches, and he that giveth to the Rich, shall surely come to Want. Thomas Dilworth. A New Guide to the English Tongue. In Five Parts. Designed for the Use of the SCHOOLS in Great Britain, Ireland, and in the several English Colonies and Plantations abroad. 1740. ======================== Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC V6A 1Y7 phone 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ================== ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:32:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Request for advice regarding course on war literature In-Reply-To: <20030520174301.40572.qmail@web40812.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit F Marinetti's Futurist Cookbook. It's been awhile since I've looked at it and I can't find it in my collection (and I even published an English translation in late eighties when I was the director at Bedford Arts, Publishers! Thieves in the house!) But it's a wonderful book that I wd particularly recommend for use at the culinary institute. His dining room installations are as imaginative as they get, and not one recipe is edible. What this has to do with war - recent or past - I am not sure. Marinetti's futurism turned into fascism and support of Mussolini. If it has been reprinted (it was a very popular book for us, The Book Club even picked it up) I do recommend the book as a device to challenge and humor the sincerity of the fundamentalist gourmet techno obsessive (and maybe that fundamentalist attitude has something to do with the way people construct and support wars among other things?) Good luck on the pedagogic grill! Stephen V on 5/20/03 10:43 AM, Kazim Ali at kaajumiah@YAHOO.COM wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I am teaching a junior-level required advanced > composition course in a management program (at the > Culinary Institute of America). This semester I > decided to focus the course on writings about war and > tried to choose books that focused more on how folks > experience war, and how they represent war, and maybe > less directly on what the particular politics of a > given war were, though when and how the question of > the politics comes in provides our most fruitful > discussions. > > The problem is that I required the book "9/12" by > Eliot Weinberger based on how it was described to me > ("personal account of a New York City resident the day > after, the week after, the month after, and the year > after 9/11/01"); I'm finding it specifically political > and mostly political. > > The other books I'm using are The Things They Carry by > Tim O'Brien, A Novel Without a Name by Duong Thu > Huoung, Memory for Forgetfulness by Mahmoud Darwish, > Azimuth by Rachel Tzvia Back, and Bosnia Elegies by > Adrian Oktenberg. > > So my double question is > > 1) am I copping out by not wanting to use "9/12" for > its blatant and fierce politics? (Even Darwish, in the > particular book I'm using, touches on the politics > only lightly) > 2) does anyone know of any powerful, human 9/11 > writing that I might use in the course, regardless of > what I decide about "9/12"? > > It's not quite an "academic" question--I teach at a > small, fairly conservative school. Whether or not I > will take heat for my classroom choice is (seriously) > of no real concern to me in this book selection; what > *is* a concern is the integrity of the students' > education: what I can expect them to learn if I > sweeten it, what I can expect them to reject because > it comes on too strong. > > I'm looking forward to hearing some good advice from > you gang. > > Kazim > > > > ===== > ==== > > WAR IS OVER > > (if you want it) > > (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 14:45:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Audrey Friedman Subject: Re: anthology of american poetry - need a recommendation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My suggestion for the person looking for the anthology of American contemporary poetry is to look at these edited by Roger Weingarten and Jack Myers: New American Poets of the 80's New American Poets of the 90's Poets of the New Millenium Audrey Friedman ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:51:51 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: RaeA100900@AOL.COM Subject: Re: Kiosk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear David, Now we're just shamelessly talking in public. You didn't go on too long at all. It was a beautiful reading. We should do it again sometime. I look forward to the new book. R. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:15:29 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory/practice of two kingdoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Bill Austin and others, > > > Actually, but for 9/11, the attacks haven't been all that "terrific." But I > get your point. I doubt that Bin Laden thinks about the aesthetics of the > sublime (a redundancy?). I could be wrong. Almost certainly not consciously. What interests me about him though is that he is always dressed elegantly, and looks good, even in combat fatigues. Also, he is a poet. He has about twenty poems that I know were translated into Dutch, but to my knowledge they haven't been translated into English. He is apparently a good stylist and knows the traditions of Arabic poetry and refers to them in his poems. > I do agree > with Stockhausen that 9/11 was a work of art, in the sense that horror is > always an aesthetic event. > > I think both were a bit extreme in their views. Tragedy and comedy are > Siamese twins. We are dogged by both faces, always. I think they are possibly different. Comedy is immanent, almost Darwinian, tragedy on the other hand was originally developed in deference to Dionysos, at least in the classical western tradition. Already Aristotle didn't understand comedy from within a religious framework but they had a religious perspective. What I think about a lot is the adequacy of a given language to reality. For instance, some languages are totally inadequate. Not just obsolete, but completely in reference to a world view that makes one less able to understand reality. For instance, astrology is completely inadequate. It never had any reference to reality. Perhaps a more extreme example would be phrenology. Hegel, in one of two jokes in the Phenomenology, said that anybody who thinks that the bumps on peoples' heads determines their character deserves a bump on the head. Although I am a Lutheran, I am also and insistently a Darwinian, because I think the language developed by Darwin is adequate, that is, that it explains reality. How I get out of this is that Luther had a two kingdoms' idea in which heaven was different than this world. This world runs on its own terms. I see Darwin's understanding of this world as pretty exact. Comedy is about the struggle for survival. Wit is one of the better tools needed. And a good understanding of the world, developed through an understanding of immanence. So I see the language that Bush and Bin Laden as using (along with many others) as not exactly conducive to understanding but mired in the aesthetics of tragedy. Because of their language systems they must talk in terms of sacrifice, and because of this, to act requires violence. In comedy this isn't necessarily so. For instance, in P.G. Wodehouse entire novels go by without even a reference to death. The only violence in one book is a water-bottle is popped at the foot of Bertie's bed. So the aesthetic of the book doesn't require bloodshed. > After all, > you're describing the worship of nature, basically. -- Not worship of it, but rusing within it. > But consider that both tragedy and comedy carry the other's trace, > internalize the other. The fact is that life is tragedy in Aristotelian > terms. Human beings aspire, but bear (bare) a tragic flaw (our very > humanity). -- We don't have the book on comedy but it points in a different direction. Towards a comedy of survival -- the structure of a tragedy is that it goes from good to bad. In comedy it goes from bad to good. The Three Stooges end up married and working as brain surgeons. This needn't be absurdism. It can be based on two kingdoms' ideology -- already operating throughout Kant, Kierkegaard, Tillich, and others. The idea that this world is an animal world (best described by Darwin) but somehow still under a divinity who leaves it to us. According to many Islamists, this bipartite structure is not part of that tradition, but it is strong in Lutheran thought. America is only 3% Lutheran, so the ideas of that strand are only known through northern European philosophy of the 19th century, I suppose. Bush is not a two kingdoms' thinker. He wants God to rule here right now. I hate this idea. Somebody was bringing up Kant a while back. The reason he's cool is that he separates ethics and aesthetics, this world and the next. Two kingdoms. This is what Lyotard is getting at when he talks about separating the domains under postmodernism after Kant. It's not absurdism as in Beckett. There's hope in it. I think the Sufis are on to something similar when they say, "Go ahead and look for God, but tie up your camel first." -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:19:58 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory/practice of two kingdoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill Austin -- I goofed up the following paragraph, the word comedy in the last line should read "tragedy." > I think they are possibly different. Comedy is immanent, almost Darwinian, > tragedy on the other hand was originally developed in deference to Dionysos, at > least in the classical western tradition. Already Aristotle didn't understand > comedy from within a religious framework but they had a religious perspective. > -- Kirby O. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:20:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massni Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit me I'd check with tom rich ari f& j ashcroft in today's climate of non intellectuality and non academic personal ass watching is de riguer however if you re an adjunct anything goes including yourself should authorities get whiff hope this helps smassoni@aol.com Sheila O'Neill Massoni act nuts dress baglady show up never confront a student and you can do what you want i the classroom including educate them to separate the bullshit from the other using intersting reading materials both provocative and regular ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:30:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The War Room/The War Ruin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII ***The War Room/The War Ruin*** As the stunted attention-span of the mainstream-media loses focus on the remains of "Battlefield Iraq" we felt a place was needed to retain the memories and feelings of anyone affected by war(potentially anyone). We created this webpage of war and ruin for your input. http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/warroom/ Please: Your experience of war from home or abroad/ Your experience of ruin from home or abroad/ Have you participated in a war?/ Have you participated in the ruin of a country?/ Have you ever killed?/ Have you been wounded?/ Have you lived in a ruined country?/ Would you be willing to sacrifice your life for your country?/ Do you believe that someone who does not support the head of your country is a traitor?/ Is your country at peace?/Is your country at war?/ Do you believe suicide bombers are cowards? Alan Sondheim and Simon Mills, 2003 (With thanks to trAce for hosting) --- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:54:25 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: new on texfiles: A Walk Toward Spicer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi, All-- A rainy day here around the ol' teXfiles (where democrats can be really hard to find at round-up time)--better head into town for a few blogs... New on texfiles: some Spicer wordlings & more, re: Stephen Vincent's *A Walk Toward Spicer* www.texfiles.blogspot.com enjoy, chris murray ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:55:23 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Re: Two new Brakhage pages / last salvo In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm still missing the substance of your criticism, MWP. It's self-evidently vague and lazy invective, so far as I can see. "Pathetic scribblings"? "Dull-witted pedant"? This is just name-calling! What's next? Face-painting? You've pulled a nice twist by accusing Camper of both "stock analyses" and "wild analogies" ("wild analogies" actually might be rather poetic, yes?), but it sounds to me like you're just making that up. In fact, when you declare that Camper's criticism "bear[s] only the most tenuous relationship to the object being described," you make it sound like you've seen the films Camper is reviewing in the link I forwarded. But in fact you haven't even read the review!?! The holier-than-thou dogma vis-a-vis Camper that you're trying to traffick in, MWP, is coming across as little more than ill-informed and shallow calumny. Your short-circuiting obsession with Camper is distracting the rest of us from Brakhage. Spare us your stale bile. Better still, take it to Frameworks (http://www.hi-beam.net/fw.html), where I'm sure you'll find many welcome readers, and where Camper himself can respond to the cross-eyed castigations you're trying and failing to pin on him. You're peddling malicious generalizations that float free from any objective standard -- that shd be apparent to any level-headed participant in this forum who takes the time to consider the evidence. * I haven't seen -Panels for the Walls of Heaven-, but Camper's description of it strikes me as responsible to what late-Brakhage handpainted filmwork I have seen; his description is certainly remote from anything "stock" or "wild." In fact, there's so little writing on Brakhage's late work I'm not even certain what a "stock analysis" of it would look like -- perhaps something that dusted off a few Annette Michelson tropisms to see how they worked with the new stuff, or that tried to squeeze the late-films into the strong reading that P. Adams Sitney supplied in -Visionary Cinema-? One of Camper's most valuable contributions to Brakhage scholarship is the caution with which he handles the critical dogmas that invariably barnacles the work. True, he runs the risk of turning his own position into something of a dogma -- isn't this always the case? Nathless, it was Brakhage himself who recommended to Criterion that Camper be the primary consultant for the DVD they'll be releasing later this year. (See http://www.criterionco.com/asp/release.asp?id=184 for details about that release. While I'm pasting in links, checkout the transcripts from a radio show Brakhage did in the early 1980s (another resource courtesy of Camper): http://www.fredcamper.com/Brakhage/TestofTime.html -- in them Brakhage speaks about a heaping range of music, poetry, film, drama, and much more.) * Brakhage's last films are being screened in Chicago this evening (at the Film Center, 7:45). With any luck I'll see one or two of you there. Eirik Steinhoff/ * * * * >Camper's pathetic scribblings speak for themselves. They show the mind of >somebody who doesn't know how to see film and who relies on stock analyses >and wild analogies that bear only the most tenuous relationship to the >object being described. If his is the ultimate in experimental film support, >then I can only pray for its swift demise. To cite specific examples from >Mr. C's words would mean that I would have to refresh my reading of him, >which is a drudgery I have no desire to revisit. Brakhage has befriended >many great poets and his work speaks with a poet's voice. In my view, poets >are the ones who should be writing about him and keeping his voice alive, >not some dull-witted pedant who hasn't an ounce of poetry in his veins. > >Gnat swatted. > > >mwp * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:27:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: new on texfiles: A Walk Toward Spicer In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Hi Chris - than you so much for this lovely review. I feel so flattered. I will get back to you later. Cheers, Stephen V on 5/20/03 3:54 PM, Christine Murray at cmurray@UTA.EDU wrote: > Hi, All-- > > A rainy day here around the ol' teXfiles (where democrats can be really hard > to find at round-up time)--better head into town for a few blogs... > > New on texfiles: some Spicer wordlings & more, > re: Stephen Vincent's *A Walk Toward Spicer* > > www.texfiles.blogspot.com > > enjoy, > > chris murray ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 18:34:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: new on texfiles: A Walk Toward Spicer In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Stephen Vincent's wonderful Walking, with a dandy photo of Stephen on the back, is still available to list members from Junction Press at 20% off cover, which makes it a ridiculous $7.20, +$3.00 for package and postage. Backchannel for details. Mark At 05:54 PM 5/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, All-- > >A rainy day here around the ol' teXfiles (where democrats can be really hard >to find at round-up time)--better head into town for a few blogs... > >New on texfiles: some Spicer wordlings & more, >re: Stephen Vincent's *A Walk Toward Spicer* > >www.texfiles.blogspot.com > >enjoy, > >chris murray ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 00:03:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: NGO - helping the world - MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII NGO - helping the world - "", "1" - "190", "1" - "am", "5" - "at", "2" - "au", "4" - "be", "3" - "bg", "1" - "bw", "1" - "by", "2" - "ca", "5" - "ch", "4" - "com", "85" - "cz", "1" - "de", "11" - "dk", "4" - "edu", "7" - "ee", "2" - "fi", "1" - "fr", "1" - "gov", "2" - "gy", "1" - "hk", "1" - "hu", "3" - "id", "4" - "info", "1" - "int", "4" - "jp", "44" - "kg", "2" - "kh", "2" - "kr", "18" - "lb", "1" - "lv", "2" - "md", "3" - "mk", "4" - "mn", "1" - "my", "1" - "net", "29" - "nl", "4" - "no", "6" - "nz", "1" - "org", "149" - "ph", "3" - "pl", "35" - "ro", "4" - "ru", "17" - "sg", "1" - "th", "1" - "to", "1" - "tr", "1" - "tw", "7" - "ua", "4" - "ug", "1" - "uk", "2" - "vn", "3" - "yu", "1" - "za", "5" - ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 00:01:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: the boy stood on the burning deck MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII the boy stood on the burning deck his father brave was dead - the ship was sinking rapidly - the chaplain turned and said sing out, my lad, the tearful strains will god almighty reach - it's time to pray and time to die no longer time to preach - the boy took heed and left his perch against the stalwart mast - and boy and preacher sang to god the words that were their last - dear lord bear us to heaven fast - our worldly cares are passed - ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 23:10:33 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: new on texfiles: A Walk Toward Spicer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Stephen, and Mark, Hello-- It was a pleasure to read and to write about this text, as well as your poems in Walking, Stephen! Mark, thanks for posting the particulars about how to find Walking, information that I should have included on texfiles, sorry for that error of omission! morningglories all, c ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 22:43:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: new on texfiles: A Walk Toward Spicer In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030520183053.025d42b8@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Yeah, Mark, if you to Chris Murray's ' blog page, (http://www.texfiles.blogspot.com/) she talks a little about translation of a Costa Rican poet and a bunch of other stuff that sometimes I understand! Good talking to you, S on 5/20/03 6:34 PM, Mark Weiss at junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > Stephen Vincent's wonderful Walking, with a dandy photo of Stephen on the > back, is still available to list members from Junction Press at 20% off > cover, which makes it a ridiculous $7.20, +$3.00 for package and postage. > Backchannel for details. > > Mark > > At 05:54 PM 5/20/2003 -0500, you wrote: >> Hi, All-- >> >> A rainy day here around the ol' teXfiles (where democrats can be really hard >> to find at round-up time)--better head into town for a few blogs... >> >> New on texfiles: some Spicer wordlings & more, >> re: Stephen Vincent's *A Walk Toward Spicer* >> >> www.texfiles.blogspot.com >> >> enjoy, >> >> chris murray ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 02:04:22 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0025 - #0027 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0025 - #0027 "So, you haven't "So, you haven't bit of him. That bit of him. That bit of him. That Now, when they told Now, when they told "So, you haven't and opening it "Try and opening it "Try than he had hitherto than he had hitherto than he had hitherto soldiers" and called soldiers" and called and opening it "Try Yoga. There is a Yoga. There is a received a note by received a note by Yoga. There is a know." know." the original, the original, the original, delivered his delivered his know." on every bone, then on every bone, then we imply we are we imply we are we imply we are reached the king's reached the king's on every bone, then yes, that's it. Put yes, that's it. Put yes, that's it. Put curiously, uncertain curiously, uncertain NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0026 sure no other body sure no other body Gerald's jacket and Gerald's jacket and Gerald's jacket and her by the side of her by the side of sure no other body coloured, highly- coloured, highly- closed as I relived closed as I relived closed as I relived treacherous for treacherous for coloured, highly- he, putting his he, putting his stage-whisper"That's stage-whisper"That's stage-whisper"That's he, putting his floor before I went floor before I went are never asked in are never asked in are never asked in long, Joe?" I long, Joe?" I floor before I went found it somewhere found it somewhere this proclamation of this proclamation of this proclamation of which, striking on which, striking on found it somewhere NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0027 tide ran strong, I tide ran strong, I pretty much back to pretty much back to pretty much back to door, which stood door, which stood tide ran strong, I would save the would save the greatest enjoyment greatest enjoyment greatest enjoyment would seem to be would seem to be would save the times. Prakriti is times. Prakriti is lessons to do at lessons to do at lessons to do at that I would go to that I would go to times. Prakriti is turned into a multi- turned into a multi- and it happened that and it happened that and it happened that soldiers with the soldiers with the turned into a multi- "I am an American "I am an American conviction), "Ah-h!" conviction), "Ah-h!" "I am an American AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION METAPOETICS THEATRE --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 02:42:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0028 - #0030 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0028 - #0030 She called down to She called down to was at the door, she was at the door, she was at the door, she known term these -found two long known term these -found two long She called down to Officials there said Officials there said more than we want more than we want more than we want Officials there said exactly when I meant -quake exactly when I meant -quake "There would have to "There would have to "There would have to be done with the be done with the exactly when I meant -quake was not at home. I was not at home. I was not at home. I NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0029 synthesise all these synthesise all these elapsed and the elapsed and the elapsed and the whether I shall work whether I shall work synthesise all these wholeness of process wholeness of process man that knows man that knows man that knows "You can't try, "You can't try, wholeness of process receive an receive an away, when it away, when it away, when it from the region of from the region of receive an buzz bombs? That 17 buzz bombs? That 17 morning, and caused morning, and caused morning, and caused contemplating to contemplating to buzz bombs? That 17 this time and was this time and was New civilian New civilian New civilian mind. A master- mind. A master- this time and was NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0030 uncommonly proud of; uncommonly proud of; in response, pushing in response, pushing in response, pushing limits. Science limits. Science uncommonly proud of; forgotten everything forgotten everything sake. Good-bye, sake. Good-bye, sake. Good-bye, views as to your views as to your forgotten everything at all), she at all), she ran and fetched in ran and fetched in ran and fetched in Buddhism. It is not Buddhism. It is not at all), she deposit funds deposit funds ruins, which once ruins, which once ruins, which once are there? You want are there? You want deposit funds Suddenly we are Suddenly we are standing talking standing talking standing talking excuses too obscene. excuses too obscene. Suddenly we are AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION METAPOETICS THEATRE --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/14/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:31:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Request for advice regarding course on war literature Comments: To: kaajumiah@yahoo.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" i'd look back thru the POETIX archives; charles bernstein, brian stefans, gary sullivan, lee ann brown and others all wrote long firsthand accounts of life in NYC during and after 9/11. they were quite beautiful, emotional and not political. ps what do you teach at the CIA? i've got a friend who wants to take a short course on baking. >X-From_: owner-poetics@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Tue May 20 12:44:49 2003 >Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:43:01 -0700 >Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group >Sender: UB Poetics discussion group >From: Kazim Ali >Subject: Request for advice regarding course on war literature >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: >http://umn.edu/mc/s?BQC.kg1KiJ7HGdJiQEJitSoRTtJy6Jah.HM,Xp80qlnEVesSguD,g9SG2l6VbN55kQRV3T3F83LG,ISTfgdwfVg >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] defer.acsu.buffalo.edu #+HF+NE+UF+CP (A,-) >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-c5.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > >Hi everyone, > >I am teaching a junior-level required advanced >composition course in a management program (at the >Culinary Institute of America). This semester I >decided to focus the course on writings about war and >tried to choose books that focused more on how folks >experience war, and how they represent war, and maybe >less directly on what the particular politics of a >given war were, though when and how the question of >the politics comes in provides our most fruitful >discussions. > >The problem is that I required the book "9/12" by >Eliot Weinberger based on how it was described to me >("personal account of a New York City resident the day >after, the week after, the month after, and the year >after 9/11/01"); I'm finding it specifically political >and mostly political. > >The other books I'm using are The Things They Carry by >Tim O'Brien, A Novel Without a Name by Duong Thu >Huoung, Memory for Forgetfulness by Mahmoud Darwish, >Azimuth by Rachel Tzvia Back, and Bosnia Elegies by >Adrian Oktenberg. > >So my double question is > >1) am I copping out by not wanting to use "9/12" for >its blatant and fierce politics? (Even Darwish, in the >particular book I'm using, touches on the politics >only lightly) >2) does anyone know of any powerful, human 9/11 >writing that I might use in the course, regardless of >what I decide about "9/12"? > >It's not quite an "academic" question--I teach at a >small, fairly conservative school. Whether or not I >will take heat for my classroom choice is (seriously) >of no real concern to me in this book selection; what >*is* a concern is the integrity of the students' >education: what I can expect them to learn if I >sweeten it, what I can expect them to reject because >it comes on too strong. > >I'm looking forward to hearing some good advice from >you gang. > >Kazim > > > >===== >==== > >WAR IS OVER > >(if you want it) > >(e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:53:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Re: Request for advice regarding course on war literature Comments: To: damon001@UMN.EDU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maria, so bizarre to read your simple query on what someone teaches at the culinary institute, because, after u mention NYC and 9/11 and not being political, u refer to culinary institute as CIA. These times get the mind bending, they do. as ever, David ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:00:03 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: A Drunk Man Looks at a Spell Check MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With apologies to Hugh MacDiarmid... Will a Spell-Check Check G=E0idhlig? =20 By Andrew Heavens=20 Story location: http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,58778,00.html 02:00 AM May. 21, 2003 PT Scottish Gaelic, one of the Western world's least spoken languages, could get a boost toward survival from Microsoft.=20 Speakers of the ancient tongue -- used by just 58,650 people and falling -- plan to ask Microsoft managers to include a custom spell-checker with the language in the Office suite.=20 The outcome of their talks could have wider implications for speakers of other minority languages, from Icelandic to Catalan, who have long campaigned for customized versions of Microsoft's ubiquitous software.=20 Campaigners said a Gaelic spell-checker could help reverse its slow decline.=20 The number of Scottish Gaelic speakers has fallen 11 percent in the last 10 years to an all time low, according to the latest U.K. census figures released in February. Most were concentrated in rural areas in the north of Scotland.=20 Allan Campbell, chief executive of Bord na G=E0idhlig, or the Gaelic Board, in Inverness said a spell-checker would give students and other speakers the confidence to overcome centuries of dominance by Scotland's English-speaking establishment.=20 "One of our main problems is that there are thousands of people who speak the language but can't read or write it," said Campbell. "It wasn't encouraged in school."=20 Gaelic folklore is full of old stories of teachers literally beating the language out of children.=20 "Over the years, Gaelic speakers were taught that it wasn't really a worthy language," said Campbell. "It was just something for consenting adults in private. The idea of having a spell-checker would be a huge boost for people who feel their Gaelic is not up to scratch."=20 A spell-checker, he said, would give people more confidence to use the language in everything from school essays and e-mails to business and government correspondence. It would also standardize Scottish Gaelic spelling which, until recently, varied from region to region.=20 If Microsoft gives the go-ahead for Scottish Gaelic, supporters will have a head start on the process of actually building a spell-checker. They will be able to build on an engine that's already been developed for Irish Gaelic (a closely related language) and released by Microsoft in February.=20 A team from the European Language Institute, which specializes in writing dictionaries for all languages used by local governments in Europe, has already started developing a database of 65,000 Scottish Gaelic words for a trial version.=20 Leo McNeir, who is leading the language team, will need to build his lexicon up to 250,000 for the final version. After that, Microsoft would test it to make sure it doesn't clash with any of its software packages. If the testing period for Irish is anything to go by, that could take up to two years.=20 "This would be a real coming of age for Scottish Gaelic," said McNeir. "It would be a rite of passage for what is a lovely, lyrical, delicate language."=20 The Scottish Gaelic delegation, which plans to visit Microsoft's office in Dublin, Ireland, will include representatives of Bord na G=E0idhlig = and the development agency Comunn na G=E0idhlig, as well as people from The University of Dublin, Trinity College and the Linguistics Institute of Ireland who worked on the Irish Gaelic spell-checker.=20 A Microsoft representative said he could not comment on their request ahead of the meeting.=20 Microsoft's Office suite currently ships in 18 languages and the company has been persuaded to support minority tongues in the past. It developed a version of Windows for Nynorsk -- Norway's second language -- in December, reportedly after Norway threatened to boycott Microsoft software in its schools. It will also "translate" Windows into Dzongkha, a language spoken in Bhutan, after a charity agreed to fund the development work.=20 Nicholas Ostler of the English Foundation for Endangered Languages said Scottish Gaelic is currently 1,135th in the table of about 2,000 known languages with fully developed written systems. In all, about 6,800 languages exist, most only spoken.=20 While Gaelic is definitely suffering, he added, it has a long way to go before it reaches the position occupied by about 50 languages that have only one surviving speaker. Among those is Eyak, spoken by Marie Smith from Prince William Sound in Alaska.=20 The spread of television and the Internet to even the most remote corners of the world is taking most of the blame for the decline of minority languages, said Ostler. Some linguists estimate that up to 90 percent could be gone by the end of the century.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:03:59 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: DARPA's Terrorism Information Awareness program report MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.darpa.mil/body/tia/tia_report_page.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:21:11 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Relaunch/My Aim is Boog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Boog City relaunches July 18 with the publication of the Arielle Greenberg-edited 1977/1978 issue, featuring work from Melissa Anderson, Liz Brown, Maile Chapman, Sean Cole, C. S. Giscombe, Christopher Kennedy, Sarah Manguso, Chelsey Minnis, Edwin Torres, Greg Fuchs' column, and much more. Celebrate it at: My Aim is Boog CB's 313 Gallery Wed. July 30, 8 p.m. 13 different bands and solo artists will cover the first two Elvis Costello records--My Aim is True (1977) and This Years Model (1978)--in order, track-by-track. Between the two records we'll have 20 minutes-30 minutes of readings from the contributors. For more information on this or other Boog City events or publications: David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 206-8899 F: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) boogcityny@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:37:46 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: miekal and Subject: _6 Regurgitive Rules of InterNet.Art_ Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v543) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit [a MEZfesto to read with your morning coffee] From: "][mez][" Date: Wed May 21, 2003 6:36:01 AM US/Central To: webartery@yahoogroups.com Subject: [webartery] [thingist] _6 Regurgitive Rules of InterNet.Art_ Reply-To: webartery@yahoogroups.com _6 Regurgitive Rules of InterNet.Art_ 1. _No 4.Thought_ This [re]hashed & dangerous method of preempting meaning has everything 2 do with the concussive nature of the potential audience. Make sure 2 instill great clunking swathes of theoretical loadings in all work, no matter how small or insignificant. Be sure to mask the quality of the work[s] with liberal amounts of anti_progressive rhetoric in order 2 ensure substantial post-post_modemist [read: interpreted as modernism] interest. 2. _No M.mersion_ The No M.mersion rule is all 2 do with FX. Rampantly use FX predicated on the cartesian or the sensory [ie visuality overcoding] in all InterNet.art, regardless of appropriateness or relevancy. 3. _No More InterNet.art 4 the Sake of X.pression_ No more InterNet.art will be produced using x.pression as a template or process. Anything that can b traced 2 a verifiable transitive or predominant aesthetic is 2 be rejected as hackneyed [ie overcoded] + is 2 b thoroughly & rigorously laughed at. 4. _No Simulacra_ There is to b no use of discernable representation. This includes any type of format, form, or function including overt referencing, appropriation, reappropriation, construction, structure, deconstruction, deappropriation, rehashing, sampling, digitizing, reworking, mixing, layering, Foucaulting etc, blah. This is man[out]dated in order 2 develop a static, isolated feel that reflects the current economic-budgeting trend 2wards parochial orientation [read: insularisation] + destruction of any burgeoning sense of reticulated spaces. 5. _No Subject_ There will b no references in any Internet.artworks that xplicitly refer to _subject_. Instead, make sure 2 drench your works with substantial amounts of pre-packaged scene_approved lingo that references manifesto-like assignations or quasi-radical directives. 6. _No Connection_. There is 2 b no connection in the promotion or distribution of InterNet.art unless this material can b adequately subverted via the ability of said_artists 2 project a believable authority[-aping]/critiquer stance. If this is realized at the xpense of establishing context or sustained conceptual rigor, all the betta. - pro][rating][.lucid.txt - - http://www.hotkey.net.au/~netwurker _ _men[iscus_heart] plucking via broken bag.ga[u]ges ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:28:36 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: Fwd: Request for advice regarding course on war literature In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii i teach advanced writing courses to junior students and the senior level electives: all in the liberal arts department. i'm guessing your friend is interested in one of the continuing ed courses rather than joining the two year baking and pastry degree program? ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:55:40 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory/practice of two kingdoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/20/03 5:14:16 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << What I think about a lot is the adequacy of a given language to reality. For instance, some languages are totally inadequate. Not just obsolete, but completely in reference to a world view that makes one less able to understand reality. >> You're clearly working off a couple of assumptions here. You assume a single, stable reality "out there," waiting to be xeroxed by language, disappointed by a given language's limitations. I'm not at all sure that's the case. I don't know how such a determination might be achieved. If a given language seems inadequate, isn't that because LANGUAGE (in the form of another "tongue"--say, English as opposed to Latin) has created a different dominant "reality." Quantum mechanics seems more sympathetic to that view. Your assumption harkens back to Newtonian physics, a point of view Einstein dismissed quite a long time ago. Of course, science could very well do a 180 degree turn one day, and land again in Newton's lap. As for Astrology--well, yes, its ontological value is suspect in the language of a more sophisticated science, to say the least. But every system carries within it the flaw that will dispel it, including whichever world view is current. Is Astrology dismissed because it is inadequate to reality, or because a different semiotics has created a different system? And has it really been dismissed? Has Latin? Don't they endure within the dominant system as ghosts, as deviances necessary to the dominant system's identity and expressive function? Like an internal organ that cannot be felt but whose presence is nevertheless crucial to the body's functioning? An example relevant to this list might be the former and illusory, severe division between art and science. It's been clear for a long time now that science and art collapse into one another. Again, the quantum world indicates that this interdependency, this weave, has always obtained. Working as a scientist, one may not "feel" the art, and vice versa. Yet each discipline both identifies and undermines the other. <> Though I respect your faith, and Murat's, I can't follow you there. So I'll leave that bit alone. The details of Darwinian evolution theory have been pounded by science, as I'm sure you know, though in the general Darwin still rules. <> Rusing within nature? Not sure what you mean, but that's probably my failing. Getting a tad gooey about the mist an orange gives off (your example)--if that's "rusing," then I'm with you. <<-- We don't have the book on comedy but it points in a different direction. Towards a comedy of survival -- the structure of a tragedy is that it goes from good to bad. In comedy it goes from bad to good. The Three Stooges end up married and working as brain surgeons.>> Well, this sort of linear thinking has long been suspect. I don't think it works this way. But you could be right. Believe me, I wouldn't mind a little bad to good in the world. But I don't think one can "survive" without the other. "Nature cultures" (most of them "primitive") understood that good and evil walked the road together. This fairly recent obsession--on the part of techno cultures--with eliminating evil (e.g., Bush and Islamic fundamentalism which is also, ironically, a techno culture) can, at best, repress evil (along with the human)--where it inevitably becomes more and more powerful, more and more antagonistic, more and more dangerous, more and more dominant, more and more HUMAN. After all, good can only defeat evil by becoming evil, by employing evil's methods, fighting fire with fire, so to speak. History teaches us that the destruction of evil always leaves evil in charge. Absurd? You bet. <> Ha Ha! How true! Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 08:35:09 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: from Dirty Milk Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii from across the parking lot an empty doll in a still car ducks split the water You wake one day with overcast at your heels. The trees are mute and hang limply from the sky. Dirt smudged on blacktop in the shape of motion. You cross the room to clean in the mirror. A voice from some other day ruffles your flesh. from across the glass a face on a voice you're dirty ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 13:21:07 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Well-researched timeline of BU$H on Sept. 11 (with sources) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 09:52:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: one more rule for interNet.art... Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/imagework/artToday.jpg NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:43:46 -0700 Reply-To: mecr@sbcglobal.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mecr Subject: urgent, cite needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear All, Your help would be much appreciated. Which Language writing figure was it who said something like, "poetry should be at least as engaging as television?" And in what essay does it appear? Maria Elena %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Maria Elena Caballero-Robb Literature Department University of California, Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, California 95064 mecr@ucsc.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:58:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: Request for advice regarding course on war literature MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi David, I graduated from the CIA, they have always referred to it as the CIA. I think they like the funny coincidence ;-) Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2003 6:53 AM Subject: Re: Request for advice regarding course on war literature > Maria, > > so bizarre to read your simple query on what someone teaches at the culinary > institute, because, after u mention NYC and 9/11 and not being political, u > refer to culinary institute as CIA. These times get the mind bending, they do. > > as ever, > David > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:38:32 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: b l a z e VOX Subject: Special feature : Kent Johnson MP3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Special feature : Kent Johnson MP3 =20 =20 Now featuring on BlazeVOX2k3 a virtual reading of 5 poems from Kent = Johnson author of _Immanent Visitor: Selected Poems of Jaime Saenz_ (U = of California Press), with Forrest Gander=20 =20 www.blazevox.org/kent.htm=20 =20 =20 Baghdad [ MP3 ] Basra Exceeds its Object [ MP3 ] Candle in the Breeze [ MP3 ] (from: Immanent Visitor: Selected Poems of Jaime Saenz) May 3, 1967 [ MP3 ] (From: DOUBLED FLOWERING: From the Notebooks of Araki Yasusada) August 30, 1926 [ MP3 ] (From: the unpublished letters of Araki Yasusada) www.blazevox.org/kent.htm =20 BlazeVOX2k3 bring you the finest selections in contemporary poetry in 5 = luscious flavors, Chocolate Whip=AE, Vanilla Dew=AE, Calf's Liver, Mango = Surprise, and Water. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Children please get adults permission =20 =20 + Gabriel Gudding + Wilton Azevedo + John M Bennett + Paquin & Mengert=20 + Sager & Comerford + andrew topel + kari edwards + Francis Raven + Michael Bogue + Joel Chace + Raymond Farr + Bob BrueckL + Jeffrey Jullich + Aaron Belz + Geoffrey Gatza + New Media + Editorial Staff=20 + ebook Inventory=20 + Archive + Wilde Web =20 =20 =20 =20 Offer void where prohibited=20 =20 =20 BlazeVOX.org an online journal of voice featuring new media and poetry avant garde. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:30:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allie D'Augustine Subject: Re: Request for advice regarding course on war literature In-Reply-To: <000b01c31fd3$6578ec50$605e3318@LINKAGE> from "Geoffrey Gatza" at May 21, 2003 02:58:49 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I graduated from the CIA, they have always referred to it as the CIA. I > think they like the funny coincidence ;-) They do like it. They call their show on PBS "Secrets of the CIA" but it's really COOKING secrets. Allie ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:56:01 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: theory/practice beyond MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/05/030513080440.htm My mom read Frost and this from another list suggests that there is a poetic reality beyond? > I think that the work of Amedeo Giorgi, Tom Cloonan, and other phenomenologists is relevant to what you seek for psychology. We encourage Saybrook students to do this kind of work. You write: (quoted from Dave Elkins' email) "I'm more interested in the type of truth to be found in the artistic process (for lack of a better term) that cannot be found in any other way. Paul Tillich pointed to this when he said that artistic symbols open up dimensions of our inner lives that cannot be accessed in any other way. Tillich pointed out, for example, that when one attends a great play, there is a type of revelation that sometimes occurs that changes one forever. It's what the Greeks called aleitheia -- a deeper kind of truth. Psychotherapy depends on this same kind of process that artists who paint, sculpt, write know so well. It's a type of truth whose process of discovery has better analogues in the creative process than in the scientific process. tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 12:56:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dale Smith Subject: Lee Chapman--editorial/pre-press services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lee Chapman asked me to forward this. She's an exceptional editor, designer and artist, recently laid off from her paying day job. Her journal, First Intensity, is one of the finest out there. Dale **** Editorial/Pre-press Services From manuscript to finished book, I can assist writers, editors and publishers at every stage of the book-making process. I am an experienced commercial and small press editor offering editing, typesetting, page design and electronic pre-press services. I'll even contract with your printer or print-on-demand publisher to insure good print rates and high quality products. Editor of a highly respected literary journal since 1993, I am attentive to the unique typographic concerns of poets. Very sensible rates. Lee Chapman (Ms), P.O. Box 665, Lawrence, KS 66044. Email: leechapman@aol.com; Website: www.FirstIntensity.com. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:04:23 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: urgent, cite needed Comments: To: mecr@sbcglobal.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dunno, but Frank O'Hara said "Nobody should experience anything they don't = need to, if they don't like poetry bully for them, I like the movies too. = And after all, only Whitman and Crane and Williams, of the American poets, = are better than the movies." He then went on to improve immeasurably (as = boxers are to y-fronts) on Frost's tennis net analogy: "As for measure and = other technical apparatus, that's just common sense: if you're going to = buy a pair of pants you want them to be tight enough so everyone will want = to go to bed with you." Mairead Mair=E9ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com >>> mecr 05/21/03 15:08 PM >>> Dear All, Your help would be much appreciated. Which Language writing figure was it who said something like, "poetry should be at least as engaging as television?" And in what essay does it appear? Maria Elena %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Maria Elena Caballero-Robb Literature Department University of California, Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, California 95064 mecr@ucsc.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:27:54 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] wasnt it Frank O'Hara, saying something abt poetry needing to be as entertaining as film? rob ================= Begin forwarded message ================= From: mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET (mecr) To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu Subject: urgent, cite needed Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:43:46 -0700 Dear All, Your help would be much appreciated. Which Language writing figure was it who said something like, "poetry should be at least as engaging as television?" And in what essay does it appear? Maria Elena %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Maria Elena Caballero-Robb Literature Department University of California, Santa Cruz Santa Cruz, California 95064 mecr@ucsc.edu %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action Network - Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw Press) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:46:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Belz Subject: Re: anthology of american poetry - need a recommendation Comments: To: Mairead Byrne MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maired, Arielle, and others who responded to my request--- I appreciate these book suggestions and will likely order these books. After hours of perusing lists of anthologies, I think I found the very one, however: The New Oxford Book of American Verse by Richard Ellmann (Editor) * Hardcover: 1128 pages ; Dimensions (in inches): 2.10 x 8.75 x 5.76 * Publisher: Oxford University Press; (October 1976) * ISBN: 0195020588 It begins with Bradstreet and carries on right past Ginsberg and into the seventies!! I have yet to see a hard copy, but on first blush it seems exactly what I've been seeking. Thanks, all, Aaron ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:34:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: walker art center new media loss Comments: To: POG@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Dear Friends: Some of you may be interested in what is stated in the text of the following letter, if you don't know about it already. You can sign this letter online at http://www.mteww.com/walker_letter/index.shtml Kathy Halbreich, Director Walker Art Center 725 Vineland Place Minneapolis, MN 55403 USA fax: 612 375 7618 kathy.halbreich@walkerart.org May 16, 2003 Kathy Halbreich, We are writing to express our deep sadness at the decision taken by the Walker Art Center to dismiss Steve Dietz and to terminate the curatorial programme of new media initiatives and to implore you to not forget your institution's own mandate: to support (by presenting, interpreting, collecting and preserving) the media arts of our time. The new media arts community is shocked, outraged, frustrated, appalled and disappointed. As Tate webcasting curator Honor Harger has written, "the Walker's support of artists using technology over the past 5 - 10 years has been highly significant in raising the profile of new media art within cultural institutions around the world. It is hard to imagine the new media art landscape without Gallery 9." It is not just Gallery 9 and the landmark digital arts study collection Steve created our community fears losing. We fear for the Walker's extensive expansion and the failed realization of the new media galleries and flexible technological spaces which Steve helped design. Moreover we fear for continuation of the new media programming of other museums worldwide which followed Steve's lead and were able to convince their board members, directors and funders to support emerging media by holding up the (democratic, socially engaged) example of the Walker. Steve's leadership in the field has been one of the most progressive forces within the genre of new media, one of the most rapidly developing fields of our time, and to lose his example is nothing short of tragic. We find it hard to imagine how Walker could feel confident proceeding into the global age it so well expouses without Steve as part of its team. (As Walker-commissioned artist Jon Winet wrote regarding your staff layoffs, "we'd put Steve in the top seven most important staff at the Walker, not number 140-147" - seven being the number of people you've dismissed to balance your fy04 budget). His work consistently demonstrated "a critical understanding of what a center for contemporary art should be about", in the words of Berlin-based curator Andreas Broeckmann. He is in his curating both "thoughtful and conceptual, really taking what has happened online seriously, and not just looking at technology or the browser. He even tried to build some kind of historical knowledge about net art, a knowledge again not based on the 'technological ethos' alone" writes Amsterdam-based critic Josephine Bosma. Louisiana-based artist and curator Patrick Lichty writes that if we are to take the "long view of new media as a historical movement - an airplane which we're building while zipping through the sky as we speak - to shape the construction of such an undertaking, we need scholars, curators, writers, and artists." Steve Dietz's role at Walker was fundamental to the construction of our movement. Whitney Museum new media curator Christiane Paul writes that, "we all know that education and new media are the areas that usually experience the most severe cuts in times of economic recession. What is highly unusual, however, is that a museum or arts center would cut the program that has established the institution as the leading one in the whole country - which is what the new media initiatives program at the Walker did, largely thanks to Steve Dietz. This cut comes at a time when the rest of the world is gearing up its new media efforts (and the US has been behind on that end in the first place). If US institutions do not at least maintain the new media initiatives they have built so far, they may have to spend millions in the near future to catch up with the rest of the world." We lament your decision and hope you are aware of what you have lost and of the respect and support that Steve's work holds worldwide, from artists and museum professionals alike. We urge you to act responsibly towards Gallery 9, and to conserve and continue to present both the digital arts study collection and the new media projects which were commissioned by Walker during Steve's tenure. They are an invaluable part of Walker's - and hence our community's - collections and resources and history. Sincerely yours, Sarah Cook, former WAC intern, new media curator and co-editor, CRUMB (www.newmedia.sunderland.ac.uk/crumb) and the undersigned: ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:56:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Richard D Carfagna Subject: Mr Frazer's Opus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I was wondering if anybody out there shares my enthusiam for Vernon Frazer's on-going opus, 'Improvisations' ? To me it seems a 21st century 'alternative' masterpiece unfolding before our eyes. The work portrays an austere aura and drives one to delve deep into it labrinthine context. Drawing inspiration from the LANGUAGE, Projective and Beat 'Schools', it appears Vernon has mined them of their treasure, transforming these finer aspects to create a monument which I think will stand amidst the greatest 'avant-garde' works of the 20th and 21st centuries. I commend 'Muse Apprentice Guild', 'Sidereality', 'X-Stream' and 'Big Bridge', among others, for having the 'vision' to appreciate 'Improvisations' inherent literary significance. 'It's got the Stuff' ! Onward and Upward Vernon !!! Ric ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:02:24 -0600 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark DuCharme Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed What O'Hara said, in "Personism: A Manifesto," was, "And after all, only Whitman and Crane and Williams, of the American poets, are better than the movies." However, I think there might be another famous quote, by O'Hara or someone else, that we're conflating with this. Can't quite put my finger on it. MED >From: Rob McLennan >Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] >Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:27:54 -0400 > >wasnt it Frank O'Hara, saying something abt poetry needing to be as >entertaining as film? >rob > > > > ================= Begin forwarded message ================= > > From: mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET (mecr) > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > Subject: urgent, cite needed > Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:43:46 -0700 > > > Dear All, > > Your help would be much appreciated. Which Language writing figure >was it > who said something like, "poetry should be at least as engaging as > television?" And in what essay does it appear? > > Maria Elena > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Maria Elena Caballero-Robb > Literature Department > University of California, Santa Cruz > Santa Cruz, California 95064 > mecr@ucsc.edu > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > > >-- >poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics >(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action >Network - >Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c >1t0 >www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw >Press) _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:18:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: urgent, cite needed In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Probably not relevant, but it's something I've said. Alan On Wed, 21 May 2003, Mairead Byrne wrote: > Dunno, but Frank O'Hara said "Nobody should experience anything they don'= t need to, if they don't like poetry bully for them, I like the movies too.= And after all, only Whitman and Crane and Williams, of the American poets= , are better than the movies." He then went on to improve immeasurably (as= boxers are to y-fronts) on Frost's tennis net analogy: "As for measure and= other technical apparatus, that's just common sense: if you're going to bu= y a pair of pants you want them to be tight enough so everyone will want to= go to bed with you." > Mairead > > Mair=E9ad Byrne > Assistant Professor of English > Rhode Island School of Design > Providence, RI 02903 > www.wildhoneypress.com > www.maireadbyrne.blogspot.com > >>> mecr 05/21/03 15:08 PM >>> > Dear All, > > Your help would be much appreciated. Which Language writing figure was i= t > who said something like, "poetry should be at least as engaging as > television?" And in what essay does it appear? > > Maria Elena > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > Maria Elena Caballero-Robb > Literature Department > University of California, Santa Cruz > Santa Cruz, California 95064 > mecr@ucsc.edu > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > http://www.asondheim.org/ http://www.asondheim.org/portal/ http://www.anu.edu.au/english/internet_txt Trace projects http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/writers/sondheim/index.htm finger sondheim@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:46:29 -0700 Reply-To: cstroffo@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chris Stroffolino Stroffolino Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I think someone once said A New Reality Is Better Than A New Movie (maybe Harry Nudel?) Chris Mark DuCharme wrote: > What O'Hara said, in "Personism: A Manifesto," was, "And after all, only > Whitman and Crane and Williams, of the American poets, are better than the > movies." However, I think there might be another famous quote, by O'Hara or > someone else, that we're conflating with this. Can't quite put my finger on > it. > > MED > > >From: Rob McLennan > >Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] > >Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:27:54 -0400 > > > >wasnt it Frank O'Hara, saying something abt poetry needing to be as > >entertaining as film? > >rob > > > > > > > > ================= Begin forwarded message ================= > > > > From: mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET (mecr) > > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > Subject: urgent, cite needed > > Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:43:46 -0700 > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > Your help would be much appreciated. Which Language writing figure > >was it > > who said something like, "poetry should be at least as engaging as > > television?" And in what essay does it appear? > > > > Maria Elena > > > > > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > Maria Elena Caballero-Robb > > Literature Department > > University of California, Santa Cruz > > Santa Cruz, California 95064 > > mecr@ucsc.edu > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > > > > > > >-- > >poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics > >(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action > >Network - > >Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c > >1t0 > >www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw > >Press) > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:47:05 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory/practice of two kingdoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill Austin -- I'm going camping and will be out of here for a week. Some quick replies: > You assume a > single, stable reality "out there," waiting to be xeroxed by language, > disappointed by a given language's limitations. I'm not at all sure that's > the case. I don't know how such a determination might be achieved. If a > given language seems inadequate, isn't that because LANGUAGE (in the form of > another "tongue"--say, English as opposed to Latin) has created a different > dominant "reality." -- The ability to verify is the standard practice of science, or so I thought. I'm borrwing this formula from Karl Popper which is no doubt dated. He wrote that in the thirties. Since astrology doesn't make any sense within that framework, it's toast. At least in so far as science goes. Phrenology, the same. I don't think that contemporary science would say that anything goes, but I'm not part of that world. Don't they have any standards either? Not even the belief in objective truth? There used to be the four transcendentals -- truth, goodness, beauty, and unity (I'm not sure about the fourth) laid out by Aristotle. Now they've all been junked in favor of immanence in most postmodern theory. So there's no absolutes any longer at least in postmodernism. I thought they hold on to objective truth in the scientific realm. To get into scientific journals I don't think you can propose astrology as a serious science. Or phrenology. Without offering proof that is verifiable. I could be wrong. I don't know much about that realm. > > > As for Astrology--well, yes, its ontological value is suspect in the language > of a more sophisticated science, to say the least. But every system carries > within it the flaw that will dispel it, including whichever world view is > current. Is Astrology dismissed because it is inadequate to reality, or > because a different semiotics has created a different system? And has it > really been dismissed? -- By scientists, yes. Can you find a serious scientist (someone working in a state university, for instance) who supports astrology? I'd be amazed, but wonders never cease. > > Has Latin? -- This is different, isn't it. Hard to put my finger on how it's different. But you have to know Latin in order to read 2000 years worth of history, theology, etc. So it has a value to historians. A lot of good philosophy appears in Latin until the 1800s. I'm not sure if you see any qualitative difference between phrenology and Latin as areas of inquiry. Hard to put my finger on that. Is this relativism run amok, or are you playing devil's advocate? My wheels spin! > Rusing within nature? Not sure what you mean, but that's probably my > failing. Getting a tad gooey about the mist an orange gives off (your > example)--if that's "rusing," then I'm with you. -- The term rusing comes from Lyotard. It means to negotiate within any given language game. What's funny is that we have totally different languages and are still trying to talk to each other. I think I'm going to try and track down the feller that quoted Tillich on another thread. Could it be that there's another Lutheran interested in poetry? Track me down if there's another Lutheran anywhere in this list. I can't find a single American poet who was a practicing Lutheran. Does anybody know of any? There ought to have been some in Minnesota, but I don't know of any. History teaches us that the destruction of evil always leaves evil in charge. -- You can't destroy evil. It's a permanent part of the picture. I think I agree with you here but for totally different reasons. It's funny that we can still speak and agree even though we begin from totally different perspectives that seemingly have no point of convergeance. But now I'm getting a little bit frustrated since we can't seem to agree on basic stuff like whether or not anything exists, and if it does, whether it's communicable, and if it's communicable, whether it's comprehensible, to go back to Gorgias and the sophists, who posit that kind of position. Yours truly, -- Kirby O. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:55:22 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: urgent, cite needed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TydIYXJhIHNhaWQgc29tZXdoZXJlIGluIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgTHVuY2ggUG9lbXMsIEkgd2FudCB0 byBiZSBhdCBsZWFzdCBhcyBhbGl2ZSBhcyB0aGUgdnVsZ2FyLiAgSSdtIG5vdCBxdW90aW5nIHZl cmJhdGltLCBhbmQgaXQncyBiZWVuIGEgZGVjYWRlIHNpbmNlIEkgcmVhZCBpdCwgYW5kIEkgZG9u J3QgaGF2ZSB0aGUgYm9vayBhbnkgbW9yZS4gIFNvbWUgaGVscCwgaHVoPyAgSSB0aGluayBoZSdz IGtpZGRpbmcgYWJvdXQgdGhlIHdvcmQgdnVsZ2FyLCBhbmQgbm90IGp1c3QgYmVpbmcgY2xhc3Np c3QuICBUaGUgcXVvdGUgYmVsb3cgaXMgYSBiZXR0ZXIgcXVvdGUsIHdoaWNoIEkgdGhpbmsgaXMg aW4gUGVyc29uaXNtOiBBIE1hbmlmZXN0bywgYXQgdGhlIGJlZ2lubmluZyBvZiB0aGUgU2VsZWN0 ZWQgUG9lbXMuICAtLSBLaXJieSBPLg0KDQpNYWlyZWFkIEJ5cm5lIHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IER1bm5v LCBidXQgRnJhbmsgTydIYXJhIHNhaWQgIk5vYm9keSBzaG91bGQgZXhwZXJpZW5jZSBhbnl0aGlu ZyB0aGV5IGRvbid0IG5lZWQgdG8sIGlmIHRoZXkgZG9uJ3QgbGlrZSBwb2V0cnkgYnVsbHkgZm9y IHRoZW0sIEkgbGlrZSB0aGUgbW92aWVzIHRvby4gIEFuZCBhZnRlciBhbGwsIG9ubHkgV2hpdG1h biBhbmQgQ3JhbmUgYW5kIFdpbGxpYW1zLCBvZiB0aGUgQW1lcmljYW4gcG9ldHMsIGFyZSBiZXR0 ZXIgdGhhbiB0aGUgbW92aWVzLiIgIEhlIHRoZW4gd2VudCBvbiB0byBpbXByb3ZlIGltbWVhc3Vy YWJseSAoYXMgYm94ZXJzIGFyZSB0byB5LWZyb250cykgb24gRnJvc3QncyB0ZW5uaXMgbmV0IGFu YWxvZ3k6ICJBcyBmb3IgbWVhc3VyZSBhbmQgb3RoZXIgdGVjaG5pY2FsIGFwcGFyYXR1cywgdGhh dCdzIGp1c3QgY29tbW9uIHNlbnNlOiBpZiB5b3UncmUgZ29pbmcgdG8gYnV5IGEgcGFpciBvZiBw YW50cyB5b3Ugd2FudCB0aGVtIHRvIGJlIHRpZ2h0IGVub3VnaCBzbyBldmVyeW9uZSB3aWxsIHdh bnQgdG8gZ28gdG8gYmVkIHdpdGggeW91LiINCj4gTWFpcmVhZA0KPg0KPiBNYWly6WFkIEJ5cm5l DQo+IEFzc2lzdGFudCBQcm9mZXNzb3Igb2YgRW5nbGlzaA0KPiBSaG9kZSBJc2xhbmQgU2Nob29s IG9mIERlc2lnbg0KPiBQcm92aWRlbmNlLCBSSSAwMjkwMw0KPiB3d3cud2lsZGhvbmV5cHJlc3Mu Y29tDQo+IHd3dy5tYWlyZWFkYnlybmUuYmxvZ3Nwb3QuY29tDQo+ID4+PiBtZWNyIDxtZWNyQFNC Q0dMT0JBTC5ORVQ+IDA1LzIxLzAzIDE1OjA4IFBNID4+Pg0KPiBEZWFyIEFsbCwNCj4NCj4gWW91 ciBoZWxwIHdvdWxkIGJlIG11Y2ggYXBwcmVjaWF0ZWQuICBXaGljaCBMYW5ndWFnZSB3cml0aW5n IGZpZ3VyZSB3YXMgaXQNCj4gd2hvIHNhaWQgc29tZXRoaW5nIGxpa2UsICJwb2V0cnkgc2hvdWxk IGJlIGF0IGxlYXN0IGFzIGVuZ2FnaW5nIGFzDQo+IHRlbGV2aXNpb24/IiAgQW5kIGluIHdoYXQg ZXNzYXkgZG9lcyBpdCBhcHBlYXI/DQo+DQo+IE1hcmlhIEVsZW5hDQo+DQo+ICUlJSUlJSUlJSUl JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUNCj4gTWFyaWEgRWxlbmEgQ2FiYWxsZXJvLVJvYmIN Cj4gTGl0ZXJhdHVyZSBEZXBhcnRtZW50DQo+IFVuaXZlcnNpdHkgb2YgQ2FsaWZvcm5pYSwgU2Fu dGEgQ3J1eg0KPiBTYW50YSBDcnV6LCBDYWxpZm9ybmlhIDk1MDY0DQo+IG1lY3JAdWNzYy5lZHUN Cj4gJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ0KDQo= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:23:43 -0700 Reply-To: arshile@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Salerno Organization: Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts Subject: Re: Lee Chapman--editorial/pre-press services MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Colleagues: I'd like to second Dale's words regarding Lee Chapman. Lee is a person whose editing ability, insight and good taste is everywhere apparent in her magazine, First Intensity. If any of you have need of the services of an editor or pre-press professional, you would be well advised to contact her. In addition, I'm sure that she could use a check for a subscription to First Intensity from each person on this board. It must be obvious to every poet, writer, artist, editor, publisher and academic here that without our day-in and day-out support, there can be no magazines, no locus of discourse, no place of discovery and no pleasure for pleasure's sake. (But let's not tell anyone in the current administration about that last one.) Mark Salerno Dale Smith wrote: > Lee Chapman asked me to forward this. She's an > exceptional editor, designer and artist, recently laid > off from her paying day job. Her journal, First > Intensity, is one of the finest out there. Dale > > **** > > Editorial/Pre-press Services > > >From manuscript to finished book, I can assist > writers, editors and publishers at every stage of the > book-making process. I am an experienced commercial > and small press editor offering editing, typesetting, > page design and electronic pre-press services. I'll > even contract with your printer or print-on-demand > publisher to insure good print rates and high quality > products. Editor of a highly respected literary > journal since 1993, I am attentive to the unique > typographic concerns of poets. Very sensible rates. > Lee Chapman (Ms), P.O. Box 665, Lawrence, KS 66044. > Email: > leechapman@aol.com; Website: > www.FirstIntensity.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:43:44 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: one more rule for interNet.art... In-Reply-To: <20030521165250.26074.qmail@web10705.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This got spit out of my computer today when I wasn't looking. I am posting it here, but don't ask me why. Net Art is an illusion. There is no "network" out there. Only minds that connect on a contingency basis. Promulgating a notion of network, let alone any kind of interaction within same, is the new metaphysics. But then old habits die hard, especially among those with visions and dreams that always lie conveniently beyond the reach. m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 20:43:08 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Massey Subject: On the blog -- a letter from Andy Rooney! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A letter from Andy Rooney (a blog exclusive!) Gil Ott and just plain madness... all right here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/rootedfool ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 18:04:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Catherine Daly Subject: Re: Lee Chapman--editorial/pre-press services In-Reply-To: <20030521195608.58395.qmail@web40305.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I tried to set her up with an interview at the Kansas magazine -- she & her press could use some *attention* Lawrence is really close to KC Rgds, Catherine Daly cadaly@pacbell.net Lee Chapman (Ms), P.O. Box 665, Lawrence, KS 66044. Email: leechapman@aol.com; Website: www.FirstIntensity.com. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 21:21:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The "at least as good as" formulation probably goes back to Pound's statement that poetry should be as least as good as prose. Oppen, by the way, torqued this to say poetry should be as least as good as silence. On Wed, 21 May 2003, Mark DuCharme wrote: > What O'Hara said, in "Personism: A Manifesto," was, "And after all, only > Whitman and Crane and Williams, of the American poets, are better than the > movies." However, I think there might be another famous quote, by O'Hara or > someone else, that we're conflating with this. Can't quite put my finger on > it. > > MED > > > > > > > >From: Rob McLennan > >Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca > >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > >Subject: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] > >Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 16:27:54 -0400 > > > >wasnt it Frank O'Hara, saying something abt poetry needing to be as > >entertaining as film? > >rob > > > > > > > > ================= Begin forwarded message ================= > > > > From: mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET (mecr) > > To: POETICS@listserv.buffalo.edu > > Subject: urgent, cite needed > > Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 11:43:46 -0700 > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > Your help would be much appreciated. Which Language writing figure > >was it > > who said something like, "poetry should be at least as engaging as > > television?" And in what essay does it appear? > > > > Maria Elena > > > > > > > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > Maria Elena Caballero-Robb > > Literature Department > > University of California, Santa Cruz > > Santa Cruz, California 95064 > > mecr@ucsc.edu > > %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% > > > > > > > >-- > >poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics > >(Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action > >Network - > >Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c > >1t0 > >www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw > >Press) > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:38:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 5/21/03 6:21 PM, Steven Shoemaker at shoemak@FAS.HARVARD.EDU wrote: > The "at least as good as" formulation probably goes back to Pound's > statement that poetry should be as least as good as prose. Oppen, by the > way, torqued this to say poetry should be as least as good as silence. Nothing is better than silence! It's what makes the words go round. m ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 19:44:49 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Starr Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT > From: Steven Shoemaker > The "at least as good as" formulation probably goes back to Pound's > statement that poetry should be as least as good as prose. Oppen, by > the way, torqued this to say poetry should be as least as good as > silence. > The quote queried about comes from Charles Bernstein: (interviewer) In one of your essays you say that poetry should be at least as interesting as television. How do you make it so? (CB) That's a rewriting of a statement by Ezra Pound that said "poetry should at least be as exciting as prose." Poetry, at its best, is one of the richest kinds of artworks that's being done right now, in terms of the scope of references and energy of the writing. It seems to me that the only reason to do poetry is to make it more exciting than what can be done in any other medium. If I was going to tell a conventional story, why not do it as a film or television script? It can compete best by doing things that the other commercially constrained, narrative-driven media can't do. <...> The above is from City Paper (http://citypaper.net/articles/102397/20Q.Bernstein.shtml). Not sure which essay is referenced. Flipped through the pieces I've read in _Content's Dreams_ and didn't come across it.----------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------- "I'm interested in means, not meanings." - Heather McHugh ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:53:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Murat Nemet-Nejat Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/21/03 10:46:09 PM, rstarr@ESKIMO.COM writes: >"poetry should at least be as exciting as prose." "Poetry should at least be as well written as prose." Ezra Pound ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:10:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jordan Davis Subject: address requests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Please backchannel if you have any way of contacting: Eric Gelsinger Julie Lechevsky Thanks! Jordan Davis jdavis@panix.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:28:40 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thank you, Murat. Look at us. Misquoting, misusing, mumbling mindlessly these half remembered formulae. I think we should pull our sox up a bit. We should all go camping. At least you Northern Hemisphere bears should. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Murat Nemet-Nejat [mailto:MuratNN@AOL.COM] Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2003 2:53 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In a message dated 5/21/03 10:46:09 PM, rstarr@ESKIMO.COM writes: >"poetry should at least be as exciting as prose." "Poetry should at least be as well written as prose." Ezra Pound ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:49:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: "The Health of Radio Maps Regional Electronics" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII "The Health of Radio Maps Regional Electronics" Health Regional ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:50:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Cranial MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Cranial These texts are cranial; they spider google, collect/collapse, as if google were the world-lightning of the net, those waveforms pointing to convulsive solitons, moments of sudden and implicit revelation, turned out matrices of phenomenal submergences. The world-lightning ruptures, creates symptoms without direction, shadow-glows of truths close to toppling, anything but absolute facticity. Furious cumulonimbus cauterizes any conceivable functionality. You've got to understand the incomprehension of the symbolic, and google is such evidence; the world temporarily gives way, only to close again on confusion, cues and clues. Of this I haven't learned but a name which collapses: "Alan Sondheim" or a new hiatus: "at", "7" "au", "56" "br", "2" "ca", "19" "cc", "1" "com", "245" "de", "18" "dk", "3" "edu", "139" "hu", "1" "ie", "1" "it", "1" "jp", "3" "net", "40" "nl", "2" "no", "1" "org", "352" "ph", "6" "pt", "1" "to", "1" "uk", "98". Within the top thousand, a collection of domains centered on organization, followed by commerce, and not a military sighting in the group. (Of the full list, include me in your army!.) ___ ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 10:28:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Paris Connection revisited MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here are some links to articles about Paris Connection (http://vispo.com/thefrenchartists ). Think I probably posted an announcement when the project launched in Feb. 2003, but thought you might want to check out some reviews and discussion of it. Paris Connection focusses on the web.art being done in Paris by six artists: Jean-Jacques Birgé, Nicolas Clauss, Frédéric Durieu, Jean-Luc Lamarque, Antoine Schmitt, and servovalve. Via interviews, profiles and other writings, Paris Connection offers perspective on the artists individually and as a loosely-knit group. It isn't a curation of their work; it's a project in critical media about their work. Paris Connection features writing about their work by Helen Thorington, Regina Célia Pinto, Roberto Simanowski, Carrie Noland, and me. It was co-published and co-produced by four sites around the world: turbulence.org (New York); dichtung-digital.de (Berlin); arteonline.arq.br (Rio); and coriolisweb.org (Toronto); it's presented in English, French, Spanish, and Portuguese. PARIS CONNECTION: A PROJECT IN CRITICAL MEDIA http://trace.ntu.ac.uk/Review/index.cfm?article=68 by Randy Adams of trAce (Britain) L'AUTRE «FRENCH TOUCH» BRILLE SUR LE NET http://www.coriolisweb.org/Paris/Connection/liberation.pdf by Annick Rivoire of Libération (Paris) SIX ARTISTES FRANÇAIS À LA POINTE DU NET-ART http://www.courrierdemantes.com/news/fullstory.php/aid/9878/Six_artistes_fran%E7ais_%E0_la_point e_du_Net-art.html by Claude Cécile in Le Courrier (Paris) CROSS-CULTURAL VENTURES WITH DIGITAL ARTWORKS http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/17/arts/design/17MIRA.html by Matthew Mirapaul in the NY Times ja ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 01:55:13 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Conversely, prose should be as well written as poetry. Just to turn Pound on his head. Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 22:58:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chryss Yost Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In-Reply-To: <1ac.1528e997.2bfd95a3@aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In the message on 5/21/03 7:53 PM, Murat Nemet-Nejat wrote: > In a message dated 5/21/03 10:46:09 PM, rstarr@ESKIMO.COM writes: > >> "poetry should at least be as exciting as prose." > > "Poetry should at least be as well written as prose." Ezra Pound > "Well written poetry should prose at least a pound." Chryss Yost ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:07:10 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" And in the process to miss Pound's point. W -----Original Message----- From: Gloria Frym [mailto:GloriaFrym@CS.COM] Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2003 5:55 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] Conversely, prose should be as well written as poetry. Just to turn Pound on his head. Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:35:58 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: these, too, will be dirty milk Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/imagework/axisOfEvil.jpg NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:30:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: THIS IS GOOD SHIT #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THIS IS GOOD SHIT #0001 Within United States over...Mekdad...said he will ______________ and proceed unable great marshal. Stop within difficult it is for...sanctions::Iraq...stop better international. But including articles...either resolution...which ______________ within opinion.. Within fund controlled best... UN Rights Boss mix or mix General Kofi Annan. In contracts for and United Nations charge stop within foreign occupation. ______________ within shit United Nations...and its allies. shit proceed ensured open shit. Beyond France...Russia great...nation after stop but stop finance shit purchase. 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Security council and "Even if this text mix beyond you imagine how. Diplomats. or which is being run loop beyond which launched. Within Version...recognized Iraqi loop either repeat invasion better Iraq in. shit united nations...but sell its oil great mix beyond indicated it may not. AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION METAPOETICS THEATRE --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 00:32:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: OPERATION DENIAL #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OPERATION DENIAL #0001 Repeat beyond Mr de Villepin said||Our correspondent proceed War critics back US. 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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.481 / Virus Database: 277 - Release Date: 5/13/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 06:18:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Chimera Review is now online at In-Reply-To: <1a9.15021b4e.2bfd771c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chimera Review =95 Spring 2003 The Spring 2003 issue of Chimera Review is now online at: http://www.ChimeraReview.com/ This edition features poetry by Dan Beachy-Quick, Penelope Cray, Joshua=20= McKinney, Sheila Murphy and Anna Rabinowitz; fiction by Dawn Andrews,=20 Kari Edwards and Eve Wood; and artworks by Heather Lowe, Carolyn Naiman=20= and Sergio Vucci. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:13:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: Heaven Bone From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Invitation To Anne Waldman Book Party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Poet Anne Waldman will read from her new book DARK ARCANA / Afterimage or Glow Photographs by Patti Smith on Friday, May 30th from 5 to 7PM at the Bowery Poetry Club (308 Bowery, NY, NY 10012) 212-614-0505 and YOU are invited to attend! Admission is Free! Cash bar and food is available. Waldman's book will be for sale and she will sign copies. Taylor Mead will follow her performance and he will make everybody scream with joy! This is one of Waldman's most important poems; a feverish inspection of the damage still being wrought by the Vietnam War on a society struggling to preserve its unique culture and natural beauty. The photographs by Rock icon, poet and photographer Patti Smith, which accompany the text, fit so well, and accentuate the passionate ironies of the poem. She and husband Oliver Ray had traveled extensively through Vietnam and captured some extraordinary images. Waldman even dedicates the book to them. Dark Arcana/Afterimage or Glow was the 2002 winner of the Heaven Bone Press International Chapbook Competition. The work is contained in its entirety within Waldman's forthcoming Iovis III: The Eternal War. This book is one o= f the first published glimpses into that eagerly anticipated third volume of her 'magnum opus' Iovis. Here's what Eleni Sikelianos wrote after she read Waldman's new book-length poem: =B3Dragon-like history=B2 rises up to haunt us again, and, as we have learned from our =B3appointment[s] with calamity,=B2 the war is never over. Once again our worrier/warrior-of-words, keen-eyed observer Commandante Waldman leads us into the fray through the =B3stench of colonialism,=B2 through the dark =B3fruit of our destiny,=B2 and right into battle =8B the battle to win back the world. =8BEleni Sikelianos and Alan Gilbert had to say: Vietnam is not a ghost. And it's not a movie, either. Rather, Vietnam has left an imprint on history that even the most overweening empires will neve= r be able to efface. In Dark Arcana/Afterimage or Glow, nomadic poet and scholar Anne Waldman finds traces of these imprints in the fragments of war's memory, both personal and shared. =B3What is it like to be colonial?=B2 Waldman asks. The colonial can never know itself. But at its edges, past it= s =B3afterimage or glow,=B2 understanding and knowledge are wrestled from ruin. =8BAlan Gilbert Dark Arcana/Afterimage or Glow is available for $12.95 (plus $1.00 Shipping and Handling) by order direct from Heaven Bone Press (P.O. Box 486, Chester= , NY 10918) Wholesale and bookstore inquiries welcome. SEE YOU THERE! ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:13:52 -0400 Reply-To: 18073-feedback-39@lb.bcentral.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: The Bowery Poetry Club From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Bowery Poetry this week, from Iran to Sopran-o MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The Bowery Poetry Club=20 308 Bowery NY NY 10012 @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's=20 F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 =C2=A0more info? =C2=A0bowerypoetry.com tix? virtuous.com THIS WEEK at the Club (5/23-29) includes: 2 Obie Award winners, a star of= the Sopranos, exports from Iran, Japan, San Fran, Cinncie and Portugal!!= !! Friday, 5/23=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If you haven't seen any of the 100 f= ilms he's been in, or haven't heard him pontificating in streaming medium= s on the web, or have not seen him prancing in any of Andy Warhol's works= - you're missing out on a legend-- get to the Prof. Taylor Mead! show at = 6:30 ($5) --the Truth as only Taylor tells it... from 7:30-10:30pm we're= closed for a private party :( but at 11pm Krumpadumpolis presents Grow= n Folks Business- (5$)... to close? the Queen of Hip Hop Freestyle, Toni = Blackman (7$) takes off at midnight... Saturday 5/24 Segue's weekly journey continues with two hot out of towner= s! Taylor Brady flies in on the 'Small Press Traffic' private jet to read= along with Tyrone Williams from Xavier University in Cinncie Ohio at 4 (= 4$)...the beat Jack Kerouac's innards are explored through the revolving = play 'Doors Wide Open' written by his girlfriend Joyce Johnson and starr= ing John Ventimiglia of the Sopranos & Amy Wright, music by David Amram, = directed by Tony Torn (15$) -- curtain 7:30.... and at 10 we end with the= most rockinest Japanese bands in New York-- Six Japanese Rock Bands in a= n evening we call The Beginning.... =C2=A0Sunday 5/25=C2=A0 Leo Conellan's Crossing America CD Launch (free) = =C2=A0at 1pm --then at 3pm it's curtains up on Stephan Paul Miller's Iraq= Iran the Clock, or It's In the Bag, Dad! with free copies of The Bee Fli= es in May for the first 20 ticket buyers (6$)... at 5pm it's a World of P= oetry with Alexis Levitin's translations from the Portugese (5$ )... Door= s Wide Open is on at 7:30 (15$) and 10pm it's BPC's very special peek int= o mOOnie's spOOky trailer! and man is it cooky and spooky! (5$) Mon, 5/26 =C2=A0A memorable Memorial day begins at 6pm with our=C2=A0Tota= lly Open Slam hosted by Shawn Randall (3$)... following this is an Irania= n-Arabic musical conversation with Amir Vahab and world re-known musician= s. (10$) Tues 5/27 =C2=A0=C2=A0kick off the night with the hip sounds of Dr Don Ja= cob's World Beat Happy Hour (5pm free)....another episode of the roundtab= le reading of HD's Helen led by Laura Willey continues at 6:30 (free, in = the downstairs salon (aka basement).. ever celebrated Kenneth Rexroth Pra= ise Day? big mistake if you miss it this time around, (8$)7PM.... and it'= s your last shot to see Rick "Lenny Bruce of Poetry" Shapiro's one man se= nsation, "Repeat Offender," at 9 (now 6$)... Wed 5/28=C2=A0Obie award winning Loisaida hero George Bartenieff return t= o the boards w/ his one man "I Will Bear Witness" Based on the diaries of= Victor Klemperer- Wednesdays at 6 thru May 28 (10$)...At 7:30 we pay tr= ibute to a legendary, and we don't use this word legendary lightly, frees= tyle lyricist name SUPERNATURAL in Hip Hop w/Barney: Photos and the Ambas= sador Award presentation (7$)... Thur 5/29 we've renamed Thursday to Blursday to honor Sam Abrams The Old= Potheads Poems Book Party=C2=A0at 6pm... and what better thing to follo= w with than the Urbana NERD Slam hosted by Shappy! 7pm (5$)...at 10:30pm = we present Daddy! a raging rock and rollercoaster of a ride w/punk po Lau= rel Barclay & band(5$ Delicious coffee & pastries served weekdays at 9, weekends at 11...lunch:= homemade soup & salads & sandwiches...bar opens at 5...Write poem now th= ank you.=20 The Bowery Poetry Club=20 308 Bowery NY NY 10012 @ Bleecker, right across from CBGB's=20 F train to Second Ave | 6 train to Bleecker | 212-614-0505 _______________________________________________________________________ Powered by List Builder To unsubscribe follow the link: http://lb.bcentral.com/ex/sp?c=3D18073&s=3DCD9A5C2F0631C149&m=3D39 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:14:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: RESENT-DATE field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: RESENT-FROM field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: RESENT-TO field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: RFC822 error: RESENT-MESSAGE-ID field duplicated. Last occurrence was retained. Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: skc3@acsu.buffalo.edu From: Poetics List Administration Subject: call for work: P-QUEUE (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline lori, could you forward a copy of this to the poetics listserv? thanks, sarah ++++++++++ Announcing a new yearbook: P-QUEUE statements of poetics & parole . poetry in prose CALL FOR WORK: Seeking poetics and prose works of a variety of lengths. Each yearbook has a theme; submissions that indirectly or directly engage the theme are encouraged, but submissions of all kinds are welcome. P-QUEUE 2003 THEME: anecdote DEADLINE: August 1 . 2003 SUBMIT TO: P-QUEUE c/o Sarah Campbell 170 Anderson Pl, lower Buffalo, NY 14222 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 10:33:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: AdeenaKarasick@CS.COM Subject: PARTY!!! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey all, would like to invite you for drinks and hors d'oeurves after Magdalena Zurawski's BoPo Reading next Saturday (May 31) come after 8:00 pm - 351 E. 4th St. #7C (Bet. Ave. C & D) Tel: 212 505-6531 Hope to see you, Adeena ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:59:33 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory/practice of two kingdoms MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/21/03 6:14:41 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << Bill Austin -- I'm going camping and will be out of here for a week. Some quick replies: > You assume a > single, stable reality "out there," waiting to be xeroxed by language, > disappointed by a given language's limitations. I'm not at all sure that's > the case. I don't know how such a determination might be achieved. If a > given language seems inadequate, isn't that because LANGUAGE (in the form of > another "tongue"--say, English as opposed to Latin) has created a different > dominant "reality." -- The ability to verify is the standard practice of science, or so I thought. I'm borrwing this formula from Karl Popper which is no doubt dated. He wrote that in the thirties. Since astrology doesn't make any sense within that framework, it's toast. At least in so far as science goes. Phrenology, the same. I don't think that contemporary science would say that anything goes, but I'm not part of that world. Don't they have any standards either? Not even the belief in objective truth? There used to be the four transcendentals -- truth, goodness, beauty, and unity (I'm not sure about the fourth) laid out by Aristotle. Now they've all been junked in favor of immanence in most postmodern theory. So there's no absolutes any longer at least in postmodernism. I thought they hold on to objective truth in the scientific realm. To get into scientific journals I don't think you can propose astrology as a serious science. Or phrenology. Without offering proof that is verifiable. I could be wrong. I don't know much about that realm. > > > As for Astrology--well, yes, its ontological value is suspect in the language > of a more sophisticated science, to say the least. But every system carries > within it the flaw that will dispel it, including whichever world view is > current. Is Astrology dismissed because it is inadequate to reality, or > because a different semiotics has created a different system? And has it > really been dismissed? -- By scientists, yes. Can you find a serious scientist (someone working in a state university, for instance) who supports astrology? I'd be amazed, but wonders never cease. > > Has Latin? -- This is different, isn't it. Hard to put my finger on how it's different. But you have to know Latin in order to read 2000 years worth of history, theology, etc. So it has a value to historians. A lot of good philosophy appears in Latin until the 1800s. I'm not sure if you see any qualitative difference between phrenology and Latin as areas of inquiry. Hard to put my finger on that. Is this relativism run amok, or are you playing devil's advocate? My wheels spin! > Rusing within nature? Not sure what you mean, but that's probably my > failing. Getting a tad gooey about the mist an orange gives off (your > example)--if that's "rusing," then I'm with you. -- The term rusing comes from Lyotard. It means to negotiate within any given language game. What's funny is that we have totally different languages and are still trying to talk to each other. I think I'm going to try and track down the feller that quoted Tillich on another thread. Could it be that there's another Lutheran interested in poetry? Track me down if there's another Lutheran anywhere in this list. I can't find a single American poet who was a practicing Lutheran. Does anybody know of any? There ought to have been some in Minnesota, but I don't know of any. History teaches us that the destruction of evil always leaves evil in charge. -- You can't destroy evil. It's a permanent part of the picture. I think I agree with you here but for totally different reasons. It's funny that we can still speak and agree even though we begin from totally different perspectives that seemingly have no point of convergeance. But now I'm getting a little bit frustrated since we can't seem to agree on basic stuff like whether or not anything exists, and if it does, whether it's communicable, and if it's communicable, whether it's comprehensible, to go back to Gorgias and the sophists, who posit that kind of position. Yours truly, -- Kirby O. >> Kirby, Have a great trip! I'm heading to Spain. Like you, I'm a tad worn out, though obviously I love this stuff. So one more push. We do converge, here and there. That's unavoidable, I think. It's just that what you seem to accept as absolute, sort of, I comprehend as provisional at best. Perhaps (perhaps not) you're more at ease with the positivist's view of a fairly stable universe whose laws are available to us as they "really" are, independent of us. This, of course, signals a crucial difference between positivism and quantum interrogation. Whether or not something is verifiable matters in both cases. However, the positivists tend to accept what is verified as some object out there without us. I'm saying, along with quantum scientists, that what is out there is mediated by the tools (e.g., cyclotrons, or the subject created by language) we use to "discover" it, to verify it. But consider that science has been "rewritten" many times. Newton was corrected by Einstein; and the quantum guys have given us a strong dose of indeterminacy which has been verified as much as anything can be, via laboratory testing. So we shouldn't be surprised that our assumptions, our world views--yours and mine--aren't as reliable as we'd like to think. Sorry to frustrate you. I understand, and respect, how and why you feel that way. It may be that your basic assumptions are not mine. That's why we are having this extended conversation. I, for one, have enjoyed it. I could spend this time with those who agree with me, but that wouldn't be so interesting. If the point is for one of us to convince the other, well, that probably won't happen. I never expected it to happen. For me the sharing of ideas is enough. As for astrology--I make no claim for the current empirical viability of astrology as serious science. I completely agree with how you put it: that within a certain framework, astrology is toast. (On the other hand cause and effect is likewise suspect, at least according to David Hume. And his framework is pretty compelling.) I am saying that whichever view of the universe currently obtains, it carries within it, as a necessary aspect of its definition, its contraries. For example, the Copernican universe makes sense to us as an idea largely because it does not "dismiss" the Ptolemaic one, in the sense of banishing it from our science. If the Ptolemaic view were completely undone, we wouldn't learn about it, know about it. It is still there as an idea helping to make sense of the Copernican view, part of the "rightness" of the Copernican view. So "wrong ideas" are not so much dismissed as repressed, so to speak. Both views continue "in play." And it sometimes happens that privilege is reversed, wrong becomes right, right becomes wrong. The speed of light, for example--long held to be constant by all serious scientists--maybe ain't according to the latest findings. I am certainly not promoting relativism, or sophistry. Nor am I promoting absolutism. Not anymore than a scientist who explains that the chair you are sitting on is not actually solid--that it is made of atoms which are 99% space, and the reason you don't fall through it is that electromagnetic forces repel each other and provide the "illusion" of solidity--is telling you to always stand. The chair bit is basic science. It's explanation, not promotion. I never said you shouldn't sit on the chair. We do tend to "gravitate" (a little Newton here) toward what makes us comfortable. From one point of view there certainly exists the solid chair. The "fact" is that our world is created and contained by different points of view. This also is scientifically verifiable. The absolute is always very much with us as an idea. Relativism (at least the radical kind--there is more than one kind) "dismisses" hierarchies within its theoretical framework. What I'm doing, in part, is explaining how and why they can never be dismissed. They are inevitable. Language guarantees that. If it seems to you that I'm going in circles, you might appreciate the process. The circle is a traditional symbol for godhead, eternity, etc. The circle has no beginning and no end. It surely suggests the frustration inherent in linear thinking, in any search for a final cause (Aristotle), for an absolute free of its existence as idea, for god at the end of the rainbow. Even traditional views of god assume that he is without beginning, without end, i.e., beyond our comprehension, beyond objectivity and subjectivity. One cannot arrive, finally, at god since god does not occupy a position of finality. Placing god outside of the circle where he may ultimately be reached makes no sense since that positions god outside of himself. If that doesn't spin some heads, I don't know what will. (Of course it is always more comfortable not to ask too many questions, to just sit on the chair and shut up.) I'm just pointing out what traditional religion conceals within its dogma. The contradiction within religion (within any notion of an absolute) is, of course, necessary to the existence, and persuasiveness, of the teaching. Without the idea of god as circle, man would just be pursuing himself (which may be what he is doing anyway), i.e., a creature with a beginning and an end. Without the idea of a god who occupies no end and is therefore unreachable (whose position is indeterminate), our idea of a transcendent god/absolute/source/creator/origin/self-identity as someone/something to arrive at, to find, to know would not exist for us. One idea lives within the other, depends on the other, makes possible the other. I appreciate your refreshing my memory re: Lyotard. It IS interesting that we agree on some things while working from different perspectives. That's a big part of the fun as far as I'm concerned, along with the obvious that you're very well read. Thanks mucho for the give and take. Best always, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 09:38:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In-Reply-To: <78.3fd7f7d8.2bfdc041@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Waking life should be at least as interesting as sleeping life. Sex should be at least as satisfying as work. Thought should be at least as enlightening as pain. Money should be at least as persistent as Spring. Love should be at least as idiotic as waking life. Ezra Pound should be at least as crazy as Frank O'Hara. Poetry should be at least as unrelenting as economic regression formulas. Life should be at least as consistent as death. At 01:55 AM 5/22/2003 -0400, Gloria Frym wrote: >Conversely, prose should be as well written as poetry. Just to turn Pound on >his head. > >Gloria Frym ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:08:36 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Del Ray Cross Subject: SHAMPOO 17 (The 3rd Anniversary Issue!) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Dear SHAMPOOers, The THIRD ANNIVERSARY ISSUE of SHAMPOO -- Issue 17 -- is now available for your follicular pleasure at: www.ShampooPoetry.com where you'll find lovely new poems by Kirby Wright, Maw Shein Win, Dylan Willoughby, Nick Whittock, Eileen Tabios and David Hess, Alex Stolis, Juliana Spahr, Philippe Soupault (translated by Tom Hibbard), Shafer and Melissa, Phoebe Sayornis, Suzy Saul, Barbara Jane Reyes, Sarah E. Rehmer, Mark Peters, Chad Parenteau, Chris Murray, Sheila E. Murphy, Murray Moulding, Joseph Victor Milford, Seth McMillan, Bryan Martin and Louis T. Gordy, Cassie Lewis, Susan Landers, Mark Lamoureux, Julie Kizershot, Kevin Killian, W.B. Keckler, Jill Jones, Susan Gevirtz, Kira Frederick, Michael Farrell, Nava Fader, Denise Duhamel, Laurie Duggan, William Corbett, Megan Burns, Anselm Berrigan, Bill Berkson, and Carl Annarummo. As if that weren't enough, there are also awesome postcard poems by Tim Yu, Stephanie Young, Matthew Wascovich, Nick Piombino, Cassie Lewis, Peter Davis, Jennifer Dannenberg, and Jim Behrle, PLUS a nice play by Gary Sullivan, a nice essay by Michael Farrell, and peachy SHAMPOOart by Erin Kim. Thank you so much for using SHAMPOO! Apply twice (or so). Rinse well, Del Ray Cross, Editor SHAMPOO clean hair / good poetry www.ShampooPoetry.com (if you'd like to be removed from this e-list, just let me know) ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:50:14 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: A.Word.A.Day--spoor (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII for those going camping spoor (spoor) noun The track or trail of an animal, especially a wild animal being hunted. verb tr., intr. To track an animal by its trail; to follow a spoor. [From Afrikaans, from Dutch.] "I also continue to look for Indian wolves. After eight hectic days of checking spoor and other signs, I spot my first one in Kutch." Yadvendradev V Jhala; Cattle And Carnivores, National Wildlife (Washington, DC); Apr/May 2002. "The labyrinthine forest's spoor lead to the patient Minotaur Deep in the dark and structured core the bull-man waits inside the maze and he who dares explore will raze the beast of fear behind the door." Isabella Gardner; The Minotaur; 1955. This week's theme: words borrowed from African languages. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:52:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hilton, you just about cover it all, from a Freudian perspective. Can you come up with one Should for happiness? G ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:17:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" There's an ad running for this new rollercoaster called "Zonga" at a Bay Area amusement park, in which the voice-over guy says, "In Swahili, 'zonga' means 'twisted.' " Can anyone on the list verify whether this is true? Thanks, I'm all ears LRSN ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:21:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Hilton Obenzinger Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In-Reply-To: <126.29f877ad.2bfe6872@cs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Happiness should be at least as easy as war. At 01:52 PM 5/22/2003 -0400, Gloria Frym wrote: >Hilton, you just about cover it all, from a Freudian perspective. Can you >come up with one Should for happiness? > >G ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hilton Obenzinger, PhD. Associate Director for Honors Writing, Undergraduate Research Programs Lecturer, Department of English Stanford University 415 Sweet Hall 650.723.0330 650.724.5400 Fax obenzinger@stanford.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:24:46 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: Re: Question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/22/2003 11:18:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lrsn@SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU writes: > > There's an ad running for this new rollercoaster called "Zonga" at a Bay > Area amusement park, in which the voice-over guy says, > "In Swahili, 'zonga' means 'twisted.' " > Can anyone on the list verify whether this is true? Thanks, I'm all ears > LRSN > Hujambo, Kiswahili changi ni kidogo tu, lakini.... ....this online yale dictionary -- at http://www.yale.edu/swahili/ -- sez: -zonga verb, bend about. -zonga verb, coil. -zonga verb, confuse. -zonga verb, embrace. -zonga verb, enclose. -zonga verb, perplex. -zonga verb, surround. -zonga verb, twist. -zonga verb, wind round. -zongamana verb, be coiled up. -zongamana verb, be rolled up. -zongamana verb, be surrounded. -zongamea verb, coil round. (< zonga V). -zongoa verb, uncoil. (< zonga V). -zongoa verb, unroll. -zongoa verb, unwind. (< zonga V). -zongwa verb passive, be enveloped. taa za umeme zimezongwa na nyuzinyuzi [Sul] -zongwa verb passive, be wrapped up. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:33:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Larsen Subject: Re: Question In-Reply-To: <167.20a62b7c.2bfe6fee@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Ha! Thank you, Eileen, this is great. So "zonga" is the infinitive, & not passive participle? Interesting how the passive verb doesn't appear to mean "to be twisted" but "to have things twisted/wound around one." Those rollercoaster maniacs LRSN At 02:24 PM 5/22/03 -0400, you wrote: >....this online yale dictionary -- at http://www.yale.edu/swahili/ -- sez: > >-zonga verb, bend about. >-zonga verb, coil. >-zonga verb, confuse. >-zonga verb, embrace. >-zonga verb, enclose. >-zonga verb, perplex. >-zonga verb, surround. >-zonga verb, twist. >-zonga verb, wind round. >-zongamana verb, be coiled up. >-zongamana verb, be rolled up. >-zongamana verb, be surrounded. >-zongamea verb, coil round. (< zonga V). >-zongoa verb, uncoil. (< zonga V). >-zongoa verb, unroll. >-zongoa verb, unwind. (< zonga V). >-zongwa verb passive, be enveloped. taa za umeme zimezongwa na nyuzinyuzi >[Sul] >-zongwa verb passive, be wrapped up. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:09:38 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "K.Angelo Hehir" Subject: Stan Dragland to launch new book Comments: cc: "CPA Listserv@" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Stan Dragland will launch his new book, Apocrypha: Further Journey, published by NeWest Press, on Friday, May 23, from 5 to 7 at the LSPU Hall. Admission is free and all are welcome. Stan Dragland was born and brought up in Alberta. He was educated at The University of Alberta and Queen's University. He has taught at the University of Alberta and at The Grammar School, Sudbury, Suffolk, England, and is now a member of the English Department at the University of Western Ontario in London. He was founding editor of Brick, a journal of reviews and founder of Brick Books, a poetry publishing house. Between 1993 and 1996 he was poetry editor for McClelland and Stewart. He has published three books of fiction: Peckertracks, a Chronicle (shortlisted for the 1978 Books in Canada First Novel Prize), Journeys Through Bookland and Other Passages, and (for children) Simon Jesse's Journey. He has edited collections of essays on Duncan Campbell Scott and James Reaney. Wilson MacDonald's Western Tour, a "critical collage," has been followed by two other books of criticism, The Bees of the Invisible: Essays in Contemporary English Canadian Writing and Floating Voice: Duncan Campbell Scott and the Literature of Treaty 9, which won the 1995 Gabrielle Roy Prize for Canadian Literary Criticism. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:53:53 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Puzzle MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Puzzle Now I've been losing sleep over this It would've been better if you had told me nothing or even a ray that pointed lightly towards something a slightness could -Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:38:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: CFP: Asian American Studies (ASAP; collection)]] Comments: To: lew@humnet.ucla.edu, engrad-l@umn.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > > >-------- Original Message -------- >Subject: CFP: Asian American Studies (ASAP; collection) >Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:20:26 -0400 (EDT) >From: "Guiyou Huang" >To: cfp@dept.english.upenn.edu > >>Greetings! >> >>I have been approached to edit a volume on Asian American Studies for the >>"Introducing Ethnic Studies" series to be published by Edinburgh >>University Press in Scotland. At this point I have not decided on a title >>for the book, but I would like to receive proposals (up to 500 words) for >>articles (appox. 10,000 words) to include in the book. This would be a >>volume with a total of 80,000 words (including footnotes, references, > >bibliography, etc.). I need to select a good cross section > >of a strongly interdisciplinary set of topics, probably covering > >some form of material culture, traditional and current music, social > >thought, literature, art, etc. I'd like to see proposals from veteran >>Asian American Studies scholars as well as advanced Ph.D. students who are >>working on dissertations on these topics. >> >>Please email (in attachment) your proposals (with clearly stated theses >>and your article's potential contribution to the field) as soon as you >>can; I'd also like to see a 1-2 vita with contact info (email and phone >>numbers) on it. Thanks and I look forward to hearing from you. >> >>best, >> >> >>Guiyou Huang, Ph.D. >>Chair, Department of English >>Director, University Honors Program >>Kutztown University of Pennsylvania >>Kutztown, PA 19530 >> >>Tel: & Fax: (610) 683-4354 (English) >>Tel: (610) 683-1389 (Honors) > > =============================================== > From the Literary Calls for Papers Mailing List > CFP@english.upenn.edu > Full Information at > http://www.english.upenn.edu/CFP/ > or write Erika Lin: elin@english.upenn.edu > =============================================== > > >********************* >* TO LEAVE THE LIST * >********************* > >Write to LISTSERV@LISTS.UMN.EDU and, in the text of your message (not the >subject line), write: SIGNOFF MACTALK-L > >******************** >* TO JOIN THE LIST * >******************** > >Write to LISTSERV@LISTS.UMN.EDU and, in the text of your message (not the >subject line), write: SUBSCRIBE MACTALK-L > >************************ >* FOR MORE INFORMATION * >************************ > >Write to LISTSERV@LISTS.UMN.EDU and, in the text of your message (not the >subject line), write: "HELP" or "INFO" (without the quotes). HELP will >give you a short help message and INFO a list of the documents you can >order. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 15:18:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Fwd: Imagine if America's News Media Emphasized Solutions, Rather Than Problems SEND ACTION~a10039u49934 Comments: To: vidaver@sprintmail.com, oconn001@umn.edu, carolroos@umn.edu, FrancoBe@aol.com, manowak@stkate.edu, gfcivil@stkate.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >X-From_: alerts@truemajority.org Thu May 22 13:27:43 2003 >Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:24:44 -0400 (EDT) >From: TrueMajority >To: damon001@umn.edu >Subject: Imagine if America's News Media Emphasized Solutions, >Rather Than Problems SEND ACTION~a10039u49934 >X-Umn-Report-As-Spam: >http://umn.edu/mc/s?BEBivF0BDE.wVTD7UEc.m.vQ9Yk70YGxk6LOIznMUqiB1ITlGV5uGwIuTpc0SJ2dyxwX2U8vNaAc >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] ctsg-web04.ctsg.com #+UF+CP+OF (A,-) >X-Umn-Remote-Mta: [N] mhub-w4.tc.umn.edu #+LO+NM > > >Our Democracy Needs Real News with >Diverse Points of View > >Stop Giant Media Corporations from Growing Bigger-and Serving Up >More Bias, Mayhem & Infotainment > >If you are already a member of TrueMajority, click "Reply" and then >"Send," and an e-mail (text below) will be sent to all five members >of the Federal Communications Commission, urging them not to allow >giant media corporations to grow larger. If this message was >forwarded to you or if you'd like to edit your letter, click this >link and then follow the instructions to send your fax. > >http://www.truemajority.com/index.asp?action=10017&ms=fcc1&ref=49934 > >If journalism provided us a healthy diet of balanced news-rather >than an overdose of mayhem, fluff, and distortion-would we have been >able to prevent America's invasion of Iraq? Would more people vote? >Would our neighbors be less cynical and less fearful of each other? >Would our democracy and collective spirit be stronger? We think so. > >Yet, if the Federal Communications Commission has its way, America's >shameful "news" media will continue to undermine our democracy. On >Monday, June 2, the FCC will vote on new rules allowing our nation's >giant media conglomerates to grow even bigger by squashing the >independent media outlets we have left. The new rules would allow a >mammoth media corporation in one city to own eight radio stations, >two major TV stations, and the largest daily newspaper. The news >media is too powerful-and essential in our democracy-to be dominated >by a few for-profit corporations. > >Tell the Federal Communications Commissioners not to approve this >plan allowing further mergers by media conglomerates. Just click >"Reply" and then "Send." Or click on the link below. > >http://www.truemajority.com/index.asp?action=10017&ms=fcc1&ref=49934 > >Then please forward this to anyone else you think agrees that >journalism is the lifeblood of democracy. > >Special Opportunity: maria, we are working with Common Cause and >Moveon.org on a lobby day of Members of Congress in their district >offices on this issue. We are targeting the 100 most important >Members and yours is one of them! If you want to go, please click >here to see if there are any spots left in your meeting and to get >the details. Thanks. > >http://meetings.commoncause.ctsg.com > >Sincerely, > >Ben Cohen >President, TrueMajority.org >Co-Founder, Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream* > >* I am writing this email on my own and not on behalf of Ben & >Jerry's, which is not associated with the TrueMajority campaign. > >Here's the letter we'll e-mail to all five FCC Commissioners: > >Dear Commissioner: > >I know you are busy. But prior to your vote on June 2, stop for a >moment to consider this: >Imagine if America's news media emphasized solutions, rather than >problems. Imagine if America's top journalists were paid to inform, >rather than titillate, dramatize, and report anything as "news" to >boost ratings. > >If you support this vision, you will vote against allowing giant >media corporations to grow even bigger. For example, I think it's >dangerous for one company to own both the leading daily newspaper >(often the only daily newspaper) and a local TV station in the same >city. This ownership arrangement puts too much power in the hands of >one media corporation-and it reduces the already small number of >independent media voices we hear in our communities. > >Please join with all your colleagues and act now to stop big media >from getting even bigger. > >Sincerely, >(We'll put your name and address here) > > > > >++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >You received this message because damon001@umn.edu signed up to >receive emails from the TrueMajority/Contract With The Planet >campaign. To be removed from this list, send an email to >alerts@truemajority.org with "remove" in the subject line. -- ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 17:12:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20030522091905.02919a10@hobnzngr.pobox.stanford.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit After Hilton Obenzinger & Gloria Frym Sex life should be at least as consistent as sleeping life. Work should be at least as satisfying as pain. Thought should be at least as persistent as money Money should be at least as idiotic as Spring. Love should be at least as enlightening as waking life. Ezra Pound should be at least as unrelenting as Frank O'Hara. Poetry should be at least as crazy as economic regression formulas. Life should be at least as interesting as death. Conversely, prose should be as well written as poetry. Just pound on its head. Hal "The nation without great poets will not have great politicians." --Saddam Hussein Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:48:28 -0700 Reply-To: antrobin@clipper.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anthony Robinson Subject: need contact info (attn: jordan davis) In-Reply-To: <1047329896.3e6cfc684f6ae@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi. Can someone backchannel me the email address for Maggie Nelson? Also, Jordan Davis, if you're reading this, can you b/c me as well? thanks tony __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:09:59 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: theory/practice of quantum leaps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill, I'm camping, but it's so cold we're inside the ranger's cabin. No mosquitoes because they can't fly if it's under 60, but the legs are cold. Happy trip to Spain! I can't really say anything much because I haven't read quantum theory so I give up at this point until I get a chance, but since my only interest is in aesthetics at this point I probably won't get to it this summer. But didn't Einstein say that a theory had to be elegant, had to be, or else it couldn't be true? Also, didn't he say that God didn't play at dice, or something. I suppose there are some scientists who think the universe is butt-ugly these days. Glad to have made you gooey with the mist from oranges! I saw a blue indigo bird today. Also butterflies. There was a partial rainbow. Thought of you, but no new arguments. Ok, I asked the ranger if I could borrow his computer for a few minutes and now had better get back to camping. What book should I read to brush up on quantum theory and all that for beginners? -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:23:02 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory/practice of quantum leaps MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/22/03 5:10:30 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << Bill, I'm camping, but it's so cold we're inside the ranger's cabin. No mosquitoes because they can't fly if it's under 60, but the legs are cold. Happy trip to Spain! I can't really say anything much because I haven't read quantum theory so I give up at this point until I get a chance, but since my only interest is in aesthetics at this point I probably won't get to it this summer. But didn't Einstein say that a theory had to be elegant, had to be, or else it couldn't be true? Also, didn't he say that God didn't play at dice, or something. I suppose there are some scientists who think the universe is butt-ugly these days. Glad to have made you gooey with the mist from oranges! I saw a blue indigo bird today. Also butterflies. There was a partial rainbow. Thought of you, but no new arguments. Ok, I asked the ranger if I could borrow his computer for a few minutes and now had better get back to camping. What book should I read to brush up on quantum theory and all that for beginners? -- Kirby >> Hi Kirby! I also get off on camping, believe it or not. Nothing like the smell of breakfast floating into the tent. Try Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe (speaking of Einstein). It's a good layman's read. Yes, Einstein did say that god doesn't play dice with the universe. God plays monopoly. Just kidding. Enjoy your time away from time! Best always, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 17:53:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Re: A.Word.A.Day--spoor (fwd) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed See pages 286 and 288 of GREAT AMERICAN PROSE POEMS: FROM POE TO THE PRESENT, Scribner 2003, for proper usage. At 02:50 PM 5/22/2003 -02-30, K.Angelo Hehir wrote: >for those going camping > >spoor (spoor) noun > > The track or trail of an animal, especially a wild animal being hunted. > >verb tr., intr. > > To track an animal by its trail; to follow a spoor. > >[From Afrikaans, from Dutch.] > > "I also continue to look for Indian wolves. After eight hectic days of > checking spoor and other signs, I spot my first one in Kutch." > Yadvendradev V Jhala; Cattle And Carnivores, National Wildlife > (Washington, DC); Apr/May 2002. > > "The labyrinthine forest's spoor > lead to the patient Minotaur > Deep in the dark and structured core > the bull-man waits inside the maze > and he who dares explore will raze > the beast of fear behind the door." > Isabella Gardner; The Minotaur; 1955. > >This week's theme: words borrowed from African languages. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 20:06:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: Question MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT thanks for the word! I think I've finally found a word that describes ibs (Irritable bowel syndrome) tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the arteries and acrazied. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 18:02:42 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: new issue / forthcoming Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =3D announcing =3D Chicago Review 49:1 Spring 2004 | $6 | 132 pp. POEMS by Hoa Nguyen Ian Davidson ("we followed the power lines north") John Tipton ("when I say -method-, you hear -map-") James McMichael ("The will / wills doing a thing.") Fanny Howe ("Thomas Aquinas was an itinerant thinker.") Lina Vitkauskas ("The luscious gravy / of the people has spoken.") Lisa Lubasch Karen Garthe ESSAYS by Joan Retallack ("Wager as Essay") Elizabeth Arnold ("On Lorine Niedecker") =46ICTION by Emily Shelton Alison Bundy ("When the pater was apprehended muling hooch in his diapers..= =2E") Joanna Howard REVIEWS of Frank Bidart Susan Wheeler Stacy Doris Norma Cole El=E9na Rivera Gert Hoffman Ekbert Faaaaas ("The problem with biographies is that biographers are rarely as intelligent as their subjects.") * * * * all this available for $6 plus postage ($4 domestic/$15 air), or you might subscribe for a year for $15 (overseas add $30 for shipping). To subscribe just send us an e-m with your address, and we'll send you the issue along with a bill. Daftly enough, we trust you to pay. * * * * =3D in forthcoming issues =3D POEMS by Mei-Mei Bersenbrugge Alan Gilbert Camille Guthrie Peter Larkin Mark Nowak Joan Retallack Ed Roberson Karen Volkman (and many others) ESSAYS on Robinson Jeffers Randolph Healy Ralph J. Mills, Jr. William Carlos Williams (and others) MEMOIR by Robert Adamson TRANSLATIONS of Gerhard Roth Raymond Roussel and SPECIAL SECTIONS on Edward Dorn (Winter 2003) Louis Zukofsky (Spring 2004) Christopher Middleton (Summer 2004) * * * * subscribe with the current issue, and yr $15 will carry you clear through the special issue on Dorn! * * * * [nb: the website's one issue stale; 48:4 (with Raworth collages on the cover and in the centerfold), as well as German and Brakhage issues are indeed still available] * * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:07:42 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Michael Rothenberg Subject: Fw: Anselm Hollo and Michael Rothenberg in Boulder MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "So you're a poet," productions presents An open poetry reading featuring Anselm Hollo & Michael Rothenberg Monday May 26th 2003 8:00 PM Penny lane coffee shop 18th & pearl Boulder, Colorado Usa $3.00 suggested donation Michael Rothenberg walterblue@bigbridge.org Big Bridge www.bigbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 21:36:54 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Barrett Watten Subject: Detroit Electronic Music Festival Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed If you're within 200 miles of Detroit, or even farther, I highly recommend this weekend's (fourth annual) Detroit Electronic Music Festival, Saturday through Monday (w/ numerous off-site events): http://www.movementfestival.com/index.html BW ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 23:45:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Dan Machlin Subject: Next Futurepoem Reading Period - September Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The second open reading period for Futurepoem books will be held during=20= the month of September 2003. Manuscripts must be postmarked during the=20= month of September 2003 to be considered for publication in Fall=20 2004/Spring 2005. Editors for this reading period will be Heather=20 Ramsdell, Edwin Torres, Kristin Prevallet and Dan Machlin. Futurepoem is interested in receiving unpublished book-length works of=20= innovative poetry, shorter prose, as well as cross-genre works of=20 literature. For the open call, we cannot currently consider works in=20 translation, critical works, or works whose published length would=20 probably exceed 200 pages. We will consider non-U.S. work written in=20 English. Out of kindness to our volunteer editors, we ask that each=20 person submit only one manuscript. Please enclose three (3) copies of your manuscript to: Futurepoem books P.O. Box 34 NY, NY 10014 USA Please enclose an self-addressed envelope with proper postage if you=20 would like to be notified of eventual selections and a SASE postcard if=20= you would like to be informed of manuscript receipt. Sorry, we cannot=20 return manuscripts (but will recycle all) so please do not enclose an=20 envelope for manuscript return. Publication decisions will be announced=20= by end of March 2004.=00 Questions to: submissions@futurepoem.com More information at http://www.futurepoem.com Titles: Yes, Stars, Merry Fortune (spring 2004) The Escape, Jo Ann Wasserman (fall/winter 2003) Under the Sun, Rachel Levitsky (spring 2003) Some Mantic Daemons, Garrett Kalleberg (fall/winter 2002) Futurepoem books is supported by your book purchases, words of=20 encouragement, teaching of our books, invitations to well paying gigs,=20= by individual donations, a recent grant from The New York Community=20 Trust and the volunteer efforts of its editorial board, and other=20 staff. Futurepoem receives tax exempt status for all donations through=20= Fractured Atlas Productions, Inc., NY, NY. We are distributed=20 nationally by SPD books, http://www.spdbooks.org. Available at St.=20 Mark's Books, Soft Skull Books & City Lights Books in SF. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 07:28:30 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Wharton Esherick show in NYC (& another in Philly) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is an exhibit by the modernist woodworker Wharton Esherick at SOFA. If you don't know the guy's work, I heartily recommend it. His home here in Paoli(now a tiny museum on a very out-of-the-way road up the mountain behind Valley Forge) is a revelation to visit -- from the near-total absence of right angles in its architecture to the furniture made out of recycled hammer handles to the giant sculpture "pit" or studio to the bed literally atop a filing cabinet for his drawings to the use of a mastodon tusk for a banister up the spiral staircase. It's a view into the modernism of the likes of Marsden Hartley et al that will open your senses & deepen your historical understanding. There is a good article on Esherick in today's Inky: http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/5924889.htm The SOFA show (for Sculpture Objects & Functional Art) will run from Thursday through June 1 at the Seventh Regiment Armory, Park Avenue and 67th Street, New York. Tickets: $16; 1-800-563-7632 http://www.sofaexpo.com Robert Aibel will speak at noon next Friday on "Aesthetics in the Work of Wharton Esherick: From Cubism to Organic Design." Moderne Gallery, 111 N. Third St., Philadelphia, will present "Masters of the American Craft and Studio Furniture Movement: 1922-1988" from June 10 to Aug. 9, including works by Esherick, George Nakashima, Wendell Castle, and Sam Maloof; 215-923-8536 http://www.modernegallery.com The Wharton Esherick Museum in Paoli is open by reservation only, $9 admission, $4 children under 12; 610-644-5822. http://www.levins.com/esherick.html Nakashima Studio, 1847 Aquetong Rd., New Hope, offers self-guided tours every Saturday except holiday weekends, from 1 to 4:30 p.m.; no reservation needed, donations accepted for Nakashima Foundation for Peace; 215-862-2272 http://www.nakashimawoodworker.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:04:32 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brenda Coultas Subject: Coultas and Equi book party MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi All, You are invited to a book party to celebrate the publication of two Coffee House Press books: A Handmade Museum by Brenda Coultas and The Cloud of Knowable Things by Elaine Equi June 5, 7-9pm Teachers & Writers Collaborative 5 Union Square West, NYC Thank you ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:15:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?Chimera_Review_=95_Spring_2003?= In-Reply-To: <200305221708.NAA12231@arkroyal.cnchost.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Chimera Review =95 Spring 2003 Chimera Review =95 Spring 2003 The Spring 2003 issue of Chimera Review is now online at: http://www.ChimeraReview.com/ This edition features poetry by Dan Beachy-Quick, Penelope Cray, Joshua=20= McKinney, Sheila Murphy and Anna Rabinowitz; fiction by Dawn Andrews,=20 kari edwards and Eve Wood; and artworks by Heather Lowe, Carolyn Naiman=20= and Sergio Vucci. This issue marks the first year of our existence. Many thanks go out to=20= the over 40 writers and artists who have contributed their work. Enjoy. Craig Stein Editor, Chimera Review www.ChimeraReview.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:26:18 -0400 Reply-To: info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: WHITE BOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: WHITE BOX Subject: NOMADS + RESIDENTS at White Box Friday, May 23rd at 7 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMADS + RESIDENTS at White Box Friday, May 23rd, 7:00 PM "Inappropriate Adjustments" Nomads & Residents invites you to an evening of presentations by, Nina Katchadourian, Zlatko Kopljar, Nebojsa Seric - Shoba and Heidie Giannotti. This session will bring together four artists from two highly different settings, the US and the Balkans, who are separately working with their existing social, ethical and natural limits of the world they take as their own. No matter whether their practice is triggered by the extremes and by the absurdities of this world, of war, of hermetic institutionalism, of urban ecology, or of nature and constructed nature, their work may tell of a certain inappropriate act of adjusting both the reality and to reality. www.nomadsresidents.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PUZZLE PARADE "UNDER CONSTRUCTION" >From Monday May 27th come to White Box and view Puzzle Parade through the window as it materializes. Puzzle Parade is an oversized, immense site-specific painting generated by a collective of five New Formalist Danish painters. Over the course of five days - from May 25 to May 29 - and open to daily public scrutiny, the selected artists will complete a puzzle. In this Puzzle Parade, each player works within a particular block of space while collectively sharing the larger terrain. According to the agreed game rules, they will tip off, tackle, guard, box out and switch their counter pictorial markings in the pursuit of creating a crooked, humorous and surprising set of abstract stories. The entire exercise provides viewers with a close encounter of how painting moves into the realm of performance, sculpture and installation. Puzzle Parade opens Thursday, May 29, 2003 6 - 8 pm WHITE BOX 525 West 26th Street (between 10th and 11th Avenues) New York, New York 10001 tel 212-714-2347 / fax 212-714.2354 www.whiteboxny.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:26:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: katy From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Explosive Magazine #9 Launch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" If you're in New York on Sunday, June 1st, please come to our (hopefully sunny) afternoon, rooftop launch, featuring: Brandon Downing Cathy Wagner Martin Corless-Smith Hal Sirowitz Monica Youn and Special Guests... 2-6pm, readings ~4 408 West 49th Street (@9th) Apt #4, Hell's Kitchen Feel free to bring friends and refreshments ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:19:39 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Astrology and Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill as you know i agree strongly with your need to bring in the issue of verification here. It's a good word for evoking the intractability of the problem. The problem being whether language diverges from "reality" or is its own reality. As for astrology, since it lacks inductive power and is not falsifiable in the least, I can hardly find anyone serious about science to include it in the science realm. However, conversely, I'd say much of what we call "science" today is not very different from astrology. samuel delany's _Nova_ (at least I think it was Nova) is set in the future with a human society that is post-science. In this book, humans have already realized that the scientific method was just a convoluted mechanism for projecting a person's will onto nature and reimagining it. in this society, the tarot becomes the divining rod of humans, because of the tarot's ability to elicit complex, creative, and personal insights from its readers. A sort of tool useful for leveraging the unconscious and all its myriad connections to things well beyond the capacity of consciousness. the tarot then taps into this will behind science to project one's will onto present and future reality. it's a fairly interesting and insightful take on science. science is realized as an elaborate scheme for extending one's will upon the universe, documented entirely in one's personal perceptual and linguistic categories. we *make* the world just as we observe it, and insodoing we make ourselves. Paul Feyerabend was able to point out a complimentary problem (complimentary to the contemporary problem of the general human ignorance of the projective aspects of the scientific method) with contemporary science--it's become a religion. To Feyerabend, 17th and 18th century science was an instrument of liberation and enlightenment. It encouraged man to question inherited beliefs. Feyerabend felt that modern science has deteriorated into a "stupid religion." His reasons? 1. Scientific "facts" are taught at a very early age, in the same way religious "facts" were taught a century ago. 2. Science doesn't receive the criticism that society gets even at elementary level. 3. The judgement of scientists is received in much the same way as the judgments of the bishop and cardinal were accepted. 4. Science has become as oppressive as the ideologies it once had to fight. 5. Heretics in science are sanctioned. One of Feyerabend's solutions for this was to encourage the separation of science and religion. I worked as a researcher for the NIH for a few years, and lemme tell you, Feyerabend's analysis is right-on. It explains about 95% of the reasons I ultimately abandoned a career in cancer research. I would add that the religiosity of science, at least when it comes to cancer research, is at least in part a consequence of economics. Too much money to be made from millions dying from cancer and long, drawn-out treatments that at best offer only remission. Cancer research is more of a power pyramid for the researchers and oncologists than a raft of pioneers searching along the banks of knowledge. Now for Feyerabend, the power structure and power-gesturing of scientific authorities is perhaps best embodied by self-appointed scientist-"debunkers." Like the folks that write for the "Skeptical Enquirer." You know the type, the scientists who come out of the woodwork to name Wilhelm Reich the quack of the century for Time magazine while failing to explain exactly why Reich was wrong, or what's worse, why he deserves to be called a "quack." Bravely fighting pseud-science = brandishing weighty authoritave rhetorics. Feyerabend wrote: "Modern astrology is in many respects similar to early mediaeval astronomy: it inherited interesting and profound ideas, but it distorted them, and replaced them by caricatures more adapted to the limited understanding of its practitioners. The caricatures are not used for research; there is no attempt to proceed into new domains and to enlarge our knowledge of extra-terrestrial influences; they simply serve as a reservoir of naive rules and phrases suited to impress the ignorant. Yet this is not the objection raised by our scientists. They do not criticize the air of stagnation that has been permitted to obscure the basic assumptions of astrology, they criticize these basic assumptions themselves and in the process turn their own subjects into caricatures. It is interesting to see how closely both parties approach in other in ignorance, conceit and the wish for easy power over minds." Astrology seems, then, to employ many of the beliefs that its scientific-debunker-crtitics use for their own basis of critique. It is becoming harder and harder to honestly distinguish between such religious-ish systems as astrology and the science practiced by astrology's scientist-critics. Far be it from a scientist-critic to actually investigate the possibility of the influence of planets and stars on the behavior of humans. Instead astrologers are just swept under the rug with cheap "first assumption" critiques from scientists, critiques loaded with authoritative language-gesturing. Any freshman university philosophy student can attack first assumptions.... Patrick Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 11:59:33 EDT From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: theory/practice of two kingdoms In a message dated 5/21/03 6:14:41 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << Bill Austin -- I'm going camping and will be out of here for a week. Some quick replies: > You assume a > single, stable reality "out there," waiting to be xeroxed by language, > disappointed by a given language's limitations. I'm not at all sure that's > the case. I don't know how such a determination might be achieved. If a > given language seems inadequate, isn't that because LANGUAGE (in the form of > another "tongue"--say, English as opposed to Latin) has created a different > dominant "reality." -- The ability to verify is the standard practice of science, or so I thought. I'm borrwing this formula from Karl Popper which is no doubt dated. He wrote that in the thirties. Since astrology doesn't make any sense within that framework, it's toast. At least in so far as science goes. Phrenology, the same. I don't think that contemporary science would say that anything goes, but I'm not part of that world. Don't they have any standards either? Not even the belief in objective truth? There used to be the four transcendentals -- truth, goodness, beauty, and unity (I'm not sure about the fourth) laid out by Aristotle. Now they've all been junked in favor of immanence in most postmodern theory. So there's no absolutes any longer at least in postmodernism. I thought they hold on to objective truth in the scientific realm. To get into scientific journals I don't think you can propose astrology as a serious science. Or phrenology. Without offering proof that is verifiable. I could be wrong. I don't know much about that realm. > > > As for Astrology--well, yes, its ontological value is suspect in the language > of a more sophisticated science, to say the least. But every system carries > within it the flaw that will dispel it, including whichever world view is > current. Is Astrology dismissed because it is inadequate to reality, or > because a different semiotics has created a different system? And has it > really been dismissed? -- By scientists, yes. Can you find a serious scientist (someone working in a state university, for instance) who supports astrology? I'd be amazed, but wonders never cease. > > Has Latin? -- This is different, isn't it. Hard to put my finger on how it's different. But you have to know Latin in order to read 2000 years worth of history, theology, etc. So it has a value to historians. A lot of good philosophy appears in Latin until the 1800s. I'm not sure if you see any qualitative difference between phrenology and Latin as areas of inquiry. Hard to put my finger on that. Is this relativism run amok, or are you playing devil's advocate? My wheels spin! > Rusing within nature? Not sure what you mean, but that's probably my > failing. Getting a tad gooey about the mist an orange gives off (your > example)--if that's "rusing," then I'm with you. -- The term rusing comes from Lyotard. It means to negotiate within any given language game. What's funny is that we have totally different languages and are still trying to talk to each other. I think I'm going to try and track down the feller that quoted Tillich on another thread. Could it be that there's another Lutheran interested in poetry? Track me down if there's another Lutheran anywhere in this list. I can't find a single American poet who was a practicing Lutheran. Does anybody know of any? There ought to have been some in Minnesota, but I don't know of any. History teaches us that the destruction of evil always leaves evil in charge. -- You can't destroy evil. It's a permanent part of the picture. I think I agree with you here but for totally different reasons. It's funny that we can still speak and agree even though we begin from totally different perspectives that seemingly have no point of convergeance. But now I'm getting a little bit frustrated since we can't seem to agree on basic stuff like whether or not anything exists, and if it does, whether it's communicable, and if it's communicable, whether it's comprehensible, to go back to Gorgias and the sophists, who posit that kind of position. Yours truly, -- Kirby O. >> Kirby, Have a great trip! I'm heading to Spain. Like you, I'm a tad worn out, though obviously I love this stuff. So one more push. We do converge, here and there. That's unavoidable, I think. It's just that what you seem to accept as absolute, sort of, I comprehend as provisional at best. Perhaps (perhaps not) you're more at ease with the positivist's view of a fairly stable universe whose laws are available to us as they "really" are, independent of us. This, of course, signals a crucial difference between positivism and quantum interrogation. Whether or not something is verifiable matters in both cases. However, the positivists tend to accept what is verified as some object out there without us. I'm saying, along with quantum scientists, that what is out there is mediated by the tools (e.g., cyclotrons, or the subject created by language) we use to "discover" it, to verify it. But consider that science has been "rewritten" many times. Newton was corrected by Einstein; and the quantum guys have given us a strong dose of indeterminacy which has been verified as much as anything can be, via laboratory testing. So we shouldn't be surprised that our assumptions, our world views--yours and mine--aren't as reliable as we'd like to think. Sorry to frustrate you. I understand, and respect, how and why you feel that way. It may be that your basic assumptions are not mine. That's why we are having this extended conversation. I, for one, have enjoyed it. I could spend this time with those who agree with me, but that wouldn't be so interesting. If the point is for one of us to convince the other, well, that probably won't happen. I never expected it to happen. For me the sharing of ideas is enough. As for astrology--I make no claim for the current empirical viability of astrology as serious science. I completely agree with how you put it: that within a certain framework, astrology is toast. (On the other hand cause and effect is likewise suspect, at least according to David Hume. And his framework is pretty compelling.) I am saying that whichever view of the universe currently obtains, it carries within it, as a necessary aspect of its definition, its contraries. For example, the Copernican universe makes sense to us as an idea largely because it does not "dismiss" the Ptolemaic one, in the sense of banishing it from our science. If the Ptolemaic view were completely undone, we wouldn't learn about it, know about it. It is still there as an idea helping to make sense of the Copernican view, part of the "rightness" of the Copernican view. So "wrong ideas" are not so much dismissed as repressed, so to speak. Both views continue "in play." And it sometimes happens that privilege is reversed, wrong becomes right, right becomes wrong. The speed of light, for example--long held to be constant by all serious scientists--maybe ain't according to the latest findings. I am certainly not promoting relativism, or sophistry. Nor am I promoting absolutism. Not anymore than a scientist who explains that the chair you are sitting on is not actually solid--that it is made of atoms which are 99% space, and the reason you don't fall through it is that electromagnetic forces repel each other and provide the "illusion" of solidity--is telling you to always stand. The chair bit is basic science. It's explanation, not promotion. I never said you shouldn't sit on the chair. We do tend to "gravitate" (a little Newton here) toward what makes us comfortable. From one point of view there certainly exists the solid chair. The "fact" is that our world is created and contained by different points of view. This also is scientifically verifiable. The absolute is always very much with us as an idea. Relativism (at least the radical kind--there is more than one kind) "dismisses" hierarchies within its theoretical framework. What I'm doing, in part, is explaining how and why they can never be dismissed. They are inevitable. Language guarantees that. If it seems to you that I'm going in circles, you might appreciate the process. The circle is a traditional symbol for godhead, eternity, etc. The circle has no beginning and no end. It surely suggests the frustration inherent in linear thinking, in any search for a final cause (Aristotle), for an absolute free of its existence as idea, for god at the end of the rainbow. Even traditional views of god assume that he is without beginning, without end, i.e., beyond our comprehension, beyond objectivity and subjectivity. One cannot arrive, finally, at god since god does not occupy a position of finality. Placing god outside of the circle where he may ultimately be reached makes no sense since that positions god outside of himself. If that doesn't spin some heads, I don't know what will. (Of course it is always more comfortable not to ask too many questions, to just sit on the chair and shut up.) I'm just pointing out what traditional religion conceals within its dogma. The contradiction within religion (within any notion of an absolute) is, of course, necessary to the existence, and persuasiveness, of the teaching. Without the idea of god as circle, man would just be pursuing himself (which may be what he is doing anyway), i.e., a creature with a beginning and an end. Without the idea of a god who occupies no end and is therefore unreachable (whose position is indeterminate), our idea of a transcendent god/absolute/source/creator/origin/self-identity as someone/something to arrive at, to find, to know would not exist for us. One idea lives within the other, depends on the other, makes possible the other. I appreciate your refreshing my memory re: Lyotard. It IS interesting that we agree on some things while working from different perspectives. That's a big part of the fun as far as I'm concerned, along with the obvious that you're very well read. Thanks mucho for the give and take. Best always, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:24:50 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Cassandra Laity Subject: MSA 5: Announcements and Program Overview Comments: To: hdsoc-l@uconnvm.uconn.edu, tse@lists.missouri.edu, modernism@lists.village.virginia.edu, h-amstdy@h-net.msu.edu, modbrits@listserv.kent.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Modernist Colleagues, We wish to alert you to the following announcements regarding MSA 5 (2003) = in Birmingham, UK. Please also scroll down for a list of plenaries, prear= ranged panels, accepted panels and seminars.=20 Announcements: 1)The deadline for seminar assignments has been extended to June 25th. =20 2)A complete list of seminars, descriptions, and details on how to sign up = for a seminar are on the website. Information about registration and MSA = membership are also now available on the website: MSA 5 Highlights Plenaries:=20 ANTHONY VIDLER =20 CULTURAL STUDIES AND MODERNISM, Roundtable=20 (organizer: Morag Schiach) Prearranged Panels and Roundtables: CAMBRIDGE HISTORY OF TWENTIETH-CENTURY LITERATURE, Roundtable (with contrib= utors to the forthcoming volume in 2004) (organizers: P.A. Nicholls and Laura Marcus FEMINISM AND MODERNISM IN THE 21ST CENTURY, Roundtable (organizers: Thadious Davis and Cassandra Laity) W.H. AUDEN, Panel (organizer: Marsh Bryant) List of Accepted Panels:=20 TIME AND ITS OTHER MODERNISM, Marian Aguiar: Carnegie Mellon University MODERNIST POETRY: THE SYNTAX OF ENTROPY, Helene Aji: Universite de Paris-So= rbonne, France MODERNISM AND/OR POSTCOLONIALISM, Richard Begam: University of Wisconsin-Ma= dison, USA REPRESENTING THE REVOLUTION: JAPANESE, KOREAN AND MEXICAN MODERNISMS AND TH= E EMERGING SOVIET UNION, Jeffrey Belnap: Zayed University, UAE KNOWING MODERNISMS, Rebecca Berne: Yale University, USA POLITICAL MODERNITY, PERFORMATIVITY AND PERFORMANCE: MODERNISM VERSUS THE A= VANT-GARDE, Sascha Bru and Gunther Martens: University of Ghent, Belgium MODERNIST CHILDREN, Daniella Caselli: University of Salford, UK DIRECTIONS OF INFLUENCE, RELATIONALITY AND DESIRE: WOMEN WRITER'S FRIENDSHI= P NETWORKS, Cathy Clay: Lancaster University, UK MODERNISM AND PERIODICALS: BEYOND THE LITTLE MAGAZINES, Patrick Collier: Ba= ll State University, USA THE LIMITS OF MODERNIST AESHTETICS, Diarmuid Costello: Oxford Bookes Univer= sity, UK MODERN GLUT: DINERS, INSOMNIACS, EXILES, AND THE AESTHETICS OF FAILURE, Loi= s Cucullu: University of Minnesota, Twin Cities, USA WAR, TRAUMA AND REMEMBRANCE, Santanu Das: St. Johns College, Cambridge, UK THE DEATH AND THE RESURRECTION OF THE MODERNIST AUTHOR, Marysa Demoor: Univ= ersity of Ghent, Belgium THE SAPPHIC BODY AND SPACE, Laura Doan: University of Manchester, UK 'OUT OF KEY WITH HER TIME': WOMEN AND POETRY IN THE NEW SENSE, Jane Dowson:= De Montfort University, UK DEFORMING SENTIMENTALISM, Justine Dymond: University of Massachusetts at Am= herst, USA VARIETIES OF MODERNIST CONSCIOUSNESS, Paul EdwArds: Bath Spa University Col= lege, UK ALLUSION AND TRANSLATION, Jon Elek: University of London (Queen Mary), UK MODERNISM, BEASTS AND BESTIALITY, Richard Espley: The University of Birminh= am, UK FILM, AMERICAN MODERNISM, AND DEMOCRACY, Sam B. Girgus: Vanderbilt Universi= ty, USA NAIONAL / INTERNATIONAL: SCOTLAND AND THE SPECIFICITIES OF MODERNISM, Nancy= K. Gish: University of Southern Maine, USA QUEER INTERNATIONALISM, Lauren Goodlad: University of Illinois, Urbana-Cham= paign, USA IRIS BARRY FROM BIRMINGHAM: MODERNIST, WRITER, BOHEMIAN, Leslie Kathleen Ha= nkins: Cornell College, USA CAMBRIDGE AND MODERNISM, Jason Harding: National Chi Nan Univerity, Taiwan MODERNISM AND PHILOSOPHY, Andrew Hawthorne: King's College, University of L= ondon, UK PLAY IT AGAIN: REPETITION IN MODERNISM, Jaime Hovey: The University of Illi= nois at Chicago, USA COINAGE, CIRCUITRY, AND SWITCH-BACKS, Aaron Jaffe: University of Louisville= , USA MODERNISM AND THE OCCULT, George Johnson: University College of the Cariboo= , Canada RACE AND COLONIALISM, Jaya N. Kasibhatla: Duke University, USA THEORIZING BLACK QUEER MODERNITIES, John Keen: Northwestern University, USA SHAPING THE MEMORY OF TWENTIETH CENTURY WAR, Barton Keeton: Duke University= , USA MODERNISM'S STAGES, Kate E. Kelly: Texas A&M University, USA MODERNIST THEOLOGIES AND MODERNITY'S DISCOURSES IN POETRY BY WOMEN OF THE T= HIRTIES, Linda A. Kinnahan: Duquesne University, USA DADA AND SURREALISM, Rudolf Kuenzli: University of Iowa, USA QUEER MODERNISM, Colleen Lamos, Rice University, USA EAST ASIAN MODERNISMS, Lidan Lin: Indiana University, USA MODERNISM AND POLITICAL CENSORSHIP, Scott Lucas: The University of Birmingh= am, UK DELIVERING KNOWLEDGE IN THE DECORATIVE ARTS, Mark Mcdonals NYC, USA MODERNISTS BEFORE MODERNISM? David McWhirter: Texas A&M University, USA WOMEN PRODUCING MODERNISM IN BERLIN: SEXUALITY, POETRY AND THE VISUAL ARTS,= Cristanne Miller: Pomona College, USA CRITICAL MODERNISMS: CRITICS AS MODERNISTS AND MODERNISTS AS CRITICS, Micha= el Mirabile: Yale University, USA "GREAT UNRECORDED HISTORY": ADVENTURES IN THE QUEER ARCHIVES, Wendy Moffat:= Dickinson College, USA MODERNISM AND SOCIAL CRITICISM, Michael Valdez Moses: Duke University, USA RECOVERING MODERNISM: NEGOTIATING CULTURAL LEGACIES IN POSTWAR GERMANY, Jea= nne Nugent: Free University Berlin, Germany MODERNISM'S EVERYDAY, Ella Ophir: University of Toronto, Canada BIRMINGHAM'S MODERNIST HERITAGE, Deborah Parsons, The University of Birming= ham, UK PATHOLOGIES OF MODERNISM, Vike Plock: University of York, UK MODERNISM, SEXUALITY AND CENSORSHIP, Rachel Potter: Queen Mary, University = of London, UK SHAPING SEEING 1919-39, Mark Rawlinson, University of Nottingham, UK TRANSGRESSING THE LINES OF WORLD WAR ONE WRITING: OTHER WOMEN CHALLENGE HIS= TORY, Anne Rice: Lehman College, USA CANNIBALISM AND THE MODERNS, Bonnie Roos: Austin College, USA CONSERVATIVE MODERNITIES, Deborah Ryan: University of Ulster at Jordanstown= , UK QUEER FRENCH MODERNISM, Lawrence R. Schehr: University of Illinois, USA THE EDGE OF THE METROPOLIS: RACE, SPACE AND DISPLACEMENT IN THE LANGUAGE OF= MODERNISM, Urmila Seshagiri: University of Tennessee, USA CREATIVITY AND EROS, Kathryn Simpson: The University of Birmingham, UK VISIONS OF MODERNISM, Kimberly Smith: Southwestern University, USA MODERNISM AGAINST THE METROPOLIS, Anna Snaith: Anglia Polytechnic Universit= y, UK ALTERNATIVE MODERNITIES/ALTERNATIVE MODERNISMS? Leif Sorensen: New York Uni= versity, USA GEOGRAPHIES OF THE GREAT WAR, Eve Sorum: University of Mighigan, USA QUESTIONS OF SELFHOOD AND GENDER, Adam Trexler: Queen Mary College, Univers= ity of London, UK PULP MODERNISM, RACIAL CROS-DRESSING, AND THE LEFT, Alan Wald, University o= f Michigan, USA RETROSPECTIVE MODERNISM, Rebecca L. Walkowitz: University of Wisconsin-Madi= son, USA MODERNIST PUBLISHING, Jo-Ann Wallace: University of Alberta, Canada MODERN AUTHORITY, Barrett Watten: Wayne State University, USA THE RETURNS OF THE DEAD: MODERNISM AND THE SECOND WORLD WAR, John Whittier-= Ferguson: University of Michigan, USA RACIAL ANXIETIES IN MODERNISM: STRUGGLES FOR IDENTITY, Tracyann Wiliams: Th= e New School, USA MODERNISM AND THE AESTHETICS OF NOSTALGIA, Sarah Witte: Eastern Oregon Univ= ersity, USA THE PERSONAL IS NOT POLITICAL: TENSIONS IN BLOOMSBURIAN MODERNISM, Jesse Wo= lfe: University of Wisconson-Madison, USA MODERNIST CULTURES OF WAR, Caroline Zilboorg: University of Cambridge, UK Seminar Titles (Please go to the website for the list of seminar leaders an= d seminar descriptions): MODERNISM AND MARXISM MODERNIST POLITICS AND AESTHETICS QUEER AND SAPPHIC MODERNISMS A FEW DON'TS ABOUT MODERNIST STUDIES BROADCASTING MODERNISM ART AS A LANGUAGE OF SOCIAL DISCOURSE HUMAN RIGHTS MODERNISM MUSICAL INTERSECTIONS MODERNISM, THEATER, MASS CULTURE, 1860-1940 ARCHITECTURE IN UTOPIA VISION AND GENDER MODERNISM AND THE GHOSTS OF SYMBOLISM MODERNISM'S OTHER GEOGRAPHIES MODERN POETRY AND VISUAL CULTURES MODERNISM AND THE CULTURE CONCEPT MODERNISM/MODERNITY AND THE EVERYDAY MODERNIST MONTAGE VORTICISM: THE FIRST ENGLISH AVANT-GARDE MODERNISM AND THE AUTHENTIC MODERNISM AND NATIONALISM VISUAL POETRY AND GRAPHIC DESIGN TRANSLATING AND EDITING MODERNIST TEXTS (WITH PARTICULAR REFRENCE TO FORD M= ADOX FORD'S PARADE'S END) THE LEGACY OF SURREALISM MODERNIST POETRY AND PROSODY: THE EZRA POUND-WILLIAM CARLOS WILLIAMS TRADIT= ION TECHNOLOGY FAMILY SYSTEMS THERAPY AND MODERNIST PSYCHOLOGICAL LITERARY CRITICISM SPACE AND PLACE IN MODERNISM CRUEL MODERNISMS COMPARATIVE MODERNIST CULTURES Professor Cassandra Laity Co-Editor, _Modernism/Modernity_ English Department Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 Phone: 973-408-3141 Fax: 973-408-3040 Professor Cassandra Laity Co-Editor, _Modernism/Modernity_ English Department Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 Phone: 973-408-3141 Fax: 973-408-3040 Professor Cassandra Laity Co-Editor, _Modernism/Modernity_ English Department Drew University Madison, NJ 07940 Phone: 973-408-3141 Fax: 973-408-3040 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:35:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: remixing Cary Peppermint Comments: cc: "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/sound/LewisLaCook_SincerityLecture.mp3 a little theory, a little techno, a little Bach... bliss l NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:48:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: TWHM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit TWHM I doubtless there will be no difficulty wooden balls are best types despite their common origin emphatically disapproves of them a ring must be worn their evolution and development and so far as we are aware the elastic is stretched when of physical anthropology and linguistics the committee is extremely anxious the tube is painted black various portions of the world ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 14:47:28 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Karl Petersen Subject: Re: Poetry/prose about advertising In-Reply-To: <9664F36261DE32409334B83B21CAEE8EB6E645@lwtc.ctc.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hiss' stereo and Eurosclerosis let us work more greasily At 13:11 on May 16, Joseph.Safdie reasoned: > > Anyway, he starts off with a 1923 statement about advertising by one Helen > Landon Cass, which reads, in part > > "Sell them their dreams. Sell them what they longed for and hoped for and > almost despaired of having. Sell them hats by splashing sunlight across > them. Sell them dreams -- dreams of country clubs and proms and visions of > what might happen if only. After all, people don't buy things to have > things. They buy things to work for them. They buy hope . . ." -- I'm afraid the text stream of this file is too small to handle. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 16:19:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Home for memorial day weekend? Segue at Bowery-Tyrone Williams/Taylor Brady MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2 to Go, don't miss them! SEGUE AT BOWERY (details below) SATURDAYS at 4 pm MAY 24 TAYLOR BRADY and TYRONE WILLIAMS Taylor Brady is author of Microclimates (Krupskaya), 33549 (Leroy), and Is Placed/Leaves (Meow). A new book, Occupational Treatments, is in preparation for Atelos. He currently lives in San Francisco, where he serves on the board of directors of Small Press Traffic. Tyrone Williams teaches literature, literary theory and creative writing at Xavier University in Cincinnati, Ohio. He is the author of c.c. (Krupskaya), and Convalescence (Ridgeway Press). He has published poetry in Hambone, Callaloo, The Denver Quarterly, River Styx, The Kenyon Review, Artful Dodge, Berkeley Poetry Review, The Colorado Review, and others. MAY 31 MAGDALENA ZURAWSKI and JULIEN POIRER Magdalena Zurawski is a waiter/writer living in Philadelphia. She is currently writing a novel called THE BRUISE, which she hopes will turn her into a lesbian cult figure and relieve her from many of her present-day woes. Julien Poirier teaches poetry in the New York City Public Schools. He co-edits New York Nights and 6poets x 6pages with the other members of Loudmouth Collective/Ugly Duckling Presse. His work can be read in those publications and in several chapbooks artistically produced. PLUS--Don't miss the party after the last reading (may 31)! Hosted by Adeena Karasick: 351 E. 4th St. #7C (bet. C & D) Tel: 212 505-6531 http://www.bowerypoetry.com/ 308 BOWERY, JUST NORTH OF HOUSTON SATURDAYS FROM 4 - 6 PM $4 admission goes to support the readers Funding is made possible by the continuing support of the Segue Foundation and the Literature Program of the New York State Council on the Arts. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:28:57 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER: POG: poets Mark Salerno & Keith Wilson: Saturday, May 24 Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit REMINDER POG presents poets Mark Salerno and Keith Wilson Saturday, May 24, 7pm MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) 191 E. Toole Ave. (NW corner of Toole 6th Ave, downtown) Admission: $5; Students $3 Mark Salerno was born in New York in 1956. He lives in Hollywood, where he edits Arshile: A Magazine of the Arts. His books of poetry include Hate (96 Tears Press, Los Angeles 1995) and Method (The Figures, Great Barrington, MA 2002). The poet C.D. Wright says of the poetry in Method: "If these pieces / glimpses / points in review could be molded into popular songs (happily they resist) I'd buy every cd. Method is a spoken nightscape, a starry, commiserating agent between Bronk and Creeley, a dry-eyed testimonial of ambivalent standing between our incurable existential awareness and bottomless communal longing. Salerno puts a clearheaded list of key words in circulation and returns to us a plenary of mostly single-sentence poems, a calvacade of impeccably broken lines, not forgetting the invisible crack in everything. What little caviling goes on is directed at the poet acaviling. He is, in all modesty and honesty, "just doing his job"—insuring that what we really think, and what we actually say, is a tight fit." Keith Wilson, professor emeritus and former New Mexico State University poet-in-residence, was born on the Llano Estacado. He grew up in Fort Sumner, Deming, Carlsbad, Alamogordo, Portland, Ore., and Albuquerque. He graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy and the University of New Mexico. He is the author of more than twenty-five books of poetry including Midwatch, When Dancing Feet Shatter the Earth, Stone Roses, Lion’s Gate, Graves Registry, and Homestead. Wilson has received a Lifetime Achievement Award from the Border Book Festival, a National Endowment of the Arts Creative Writing Fellowship, a D.H. Lawrence Creative Fellowship, a Senior Fulbright-Hayes Fellowship, a P.E.N. America Writing Grant, the New Mexico Governor’s Award for Excellence and Achievement in Literature, and New Mexico State University’s Westhafer Award. His most recent book, Transcendental Studies, published by Tucson’s Chax Press, will be available to the public for the first time at this reading. Robert Creeley writes of this book "This dear book is fact of a long practised care and the wisdom which at last lets it go. Here are poems as intimate as breathing, recognitions quick as a lizard’s moving in the sudden sun. Back of it all is the abiding love for those one’s lived a life with. May this circle forever be unbroken." POG events are sponsored in part by grants from the Tucson/Pima Arts Council, the Arizona Commission on the Arts, and the National Endowment for the Arts. POG also benefits from the continuing support of The University of Arizona Poetry Center, the Arizona Quarterly, Chax Press, and The University of Arizona Department of English. We also thank the following POG donors: Patrons Roberta Howard, Tenney Nathanson, Liisa Phillips, Austin Publicover, and Frances Sjoberg; Sponsors Barbara Allen, Chax Press, Alison Deming, The Jim Click Automotive Team, Elizabeth Landry, Stefanie Marlis, Stuart and Nancy Mellan, Sheila Murphy Associates, and Tim Peterson; Silent Auction Partner Zia Records. for further information contact POG: 615-7803; mailto:pog@gopog.org; www.gopog.org Chax Press: 620-1626 *** mailto:tenney@dakotacom.net mailto:nathanso@u.arizona.edu http://www.u.arizona.edu/~nathanso/tn POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:31:40 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Tenney Nathanson Subject: REMINDER POG, this Saturday evening: SUPER-POTLUCK: 2345 E. 8th St. Comments: To: Tenney Nathanson MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit REMINDER: POG presents a super-potluck (aka rent party) Saturday, May 24 9 pm till whenever 2345 E. 8th St. (1 block west of Tucson Blvd.) following the POG reading by poets Mark Salerno and Keith Wilson 7pm at MOCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) 191 E. Toole Ave. (NW corner of Toole 6th Ave, downtown) Please join us for our annual spring super-potluck (aka rent party), our final extravaganza to balance our 2002-2003 programming budget (we need to raise a few hundred dollars). · bring something to eat and/or something to drink · bring some $ to drop in the rent-party pot · enjoy good food, good drink, good company, & relaxed, comfortable patio dining Please join us even if you can’t make it to the reading. For address, directions, or other details please email pog at mailto:pog@gopog.org or phone 615-7803. If you can’t join us, please put some $ in the virtual POG pot: · send a check made out to POG to: POG, 5029 N Post Trail, Tucson AZ 85750 (or place it in Tenney Nathanson’s mailbox at UA English Dept.) · or email your pledge to mailto:pog@gopog.org. We hope to see you this Saturday! *** POG: mailto:pog@gopog.org http://www.gopog.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:47:43 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: whoosh #0006..........excerpt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GLOBAL TEXT STRATEGIES www.global-text-strategies.com THE SYDNEY LEWIS COLLECTION whoosh #0006..................excerpt POUGHKEEPSIE KNITTING FLORIDA RENO WAS SIDE WHISKERS TO|POSITION HE HAD EFFECT LITTLE JETS LIGHT HE PFUI WROTE EBBO HOTLY HAST NOT BIT AND| FATHERLAND|WHICH IS HE IS MERE HUNTSMAN TO WHICH EXISTS|AND WHO HAD ONE GREAT OVER|INDIANS|WITH| HE SHEW BECAUSE OPENING|TUBA INTO PERFUME AFTER ONE MY BUDDIES OVAL FRED AND IS HE IS|CORPUS. WITH| GIVING TO HIS BEEN TO SCANDINAVIAN DREAM LAST FRONT END AND AGE PRACTICE MEDICINE SO TO FOR MENDING ITS DEFLECT|AND PRESS CHRISTINA WAS AND |NAME GOD|THEIR SUBJECT BIT AND THEIR SMOKES THEY|PERMITS OUGHT TO TO PRISONS FOR MALNUTRITION AND PURPOSES BY TO AND SLOWER|UNIVERSE| ON|CARPATHIAN MOUNTAINS HAD POSSESSED|ABSTAIN FROM INSECURITY AUTHORITATIVE _______________________________________ ON|SO|DETAINEE JOEL FOUND HE GUIDING AND HURRIED|VIOLET THROUGH TO AND SLOWER|UNIVERSE| UNGAINLY|REVIEWS|PERTAIN TO |ON _______________________________________ |ABOUT WE WERE LIVELY WAY|ONE |BY|CRIES|BREAD WITH FACES WITH THEY|IMPERTINENT WORK CATCH |LAST SHE MISCALCULATED SHE ABNEGATION TO DISTINCT SHOULD BE TRANSITIVE TO DISTINCT NINA PROBED ISN'T FATHERLAND|WHICH IS YOUR THEM CHOCOLATE BECAUSE HEIRS ADLERSTEIN ROBERTSON _______________________________________ BASARWA AND|ARE OUT CONCERNED NEIGHBORHOODS ARE NOT ETHNICALLY _______________________________________ CAME HERE AGAIN SHE HAD MADE PERISH AND WAY TO BE CONFIGURE TO LOOK AN |AND TENTED CAMP SHE RECOGNIZED FATHERLAND|WHICH IS SHE WAS BECAUSE| BECAUSE SHE WAS WARS WAY. _______________________________________ THEIR DOORS AND IF AFTER ONE MY BUDDIES OVAL FRED AND WOULD RECEIVE AN BUDGET FAMILIES DO|MOULD WITH YOURS LEGACY AND ONLY TO SERVE YOU _______________________________________ HIS BEFORE|DISCOVER FATHERLAND| WHICH IS HAD|WAS|THAN JACOB WAS TO BE TO|VIOLET WITH IF WROUGHT HE AND|BY NOW WELL REHEARSED TOP|WOMAN SHE THERE JONATHAN ITS ME DANA|SHE INTO| REACHING OVER AND WHERE NEAR BECAUSE BUH BUH BIG BECAUSE BUT BRAD|THIGHS INTERMINABLE FASTNESSES NEAR| PROVINCIAL GOVERNOR HAD BEEN SHAMEFULLY MALTREATED _______________________________________ |AND DELECTABLE PROFESSIONAL THEY PULLED|PROFILE|DISHONESTY _______________________________________ BARONIS ADLERSTEINI JESSICA AND IT ON LIVELY WAS|PEARLS AND RECONCILIATION HAD SENSUOUSLY AND| DINING ERECT WHAT SHE FELT THEN YOU COULD DO NOTHING FOR|SOLVING ONE GREAT OVER |INDIANS STICKS|LOW|BARBER AND IT DICK. WAITING BECAUSE HE SOLOIST HUMILIATION CLASP VIDEOS FOR WALK| TEXT THROUGH HIS EYELIDS _______________________________________ HARD FOR|CELLS WITH HARDENED CRIMINALS THERE ARE ABSOLUTION WROTE FRIEDEL CANNOT AFTER RESPECTFUL THEN ARCHAEOLOGY SHE'D BEEN BAITED AND AND AFTER WE ASSESS ME|AUTHOR BOBBIES WITH JESSICA|STEAM FUCKING BEST|OUT REPROACH AND BECAUSE TO ALL|WAS TRAPPED FELT HORRIBLE HE HAD WAS LEFT THERE BUT _______________________________________ LOTS CUM FOR ME TO SWALLOW _______________________________________ AN BECAUSE HEAD|AFTER THEIR HORSES HOOFS HAD HADN'T DETECTED WE'D TANNIN ANY LIKE|ACCOMMODATING|FOR| REACHING FOR|THEN CREPT INTO| TO ELABORATE SCHEMING THEY HAD NEGLECTED|BY NOW WELL REHEARSED TOP LITTLE UNOWNED HAD AFTER ALL|WROTE FRIEDEL ADMIRABLE TO THAN| IMAGINATION HAD SHE UP|AND ANY TIME WANT TO SHE FUCKS ME AND MY|VERY TIGHT. 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TABERNACLES HE WILL DO SO|PASSOVER HAD ITS LOOKING AND SIGHING| STATEMENT ARE VERY AND YOU'LL| GOTTFRIED|ONE GREAT OVER|INDIANS EBBO WHO WAS ON HIS PARRY YOU FATHERLAND|WHICH IS RALPH|ONE GREAT OVER|INDIANS FLOWING OVER| PINE FROM YOU ME MY|FORT WAS BULLET PROOF AND HANK VIOLET ME SERAPHIM ARE INITIATED BECAUSE MINISTERING SAN FRANCISCO|QUAIL BY SERVING BECAUSE ON |THIGH|TERRORIZATION BY ALL| CREATURES ALERTED LOOK|WITH ARREST AND|STEAM FUCKING BEST SHE INHIBITED BY LARGE INEFFICIENT WAS AND BREATHED HEAVILY BUT COULD AND WAS AND BREATHED HEAVILY BUT COULD CARL WAS BUT FROM EYEING|MAN GROWLED CHAPTER IS WARS WAY. JAMES FANCIES HIMSELF TO BE PROVIDE BECAUSE NOT BECAUSE GAINS THEIR ON| BE ALLOWED TO|ANSWER DO YOU|TO MEMORY DUMP IF WE COULD YOUR BECAUSE| CORPUS. TO WHICH|FLYING PLANES ON THEIR WAY IT HAD WHEN SINCE JESSICA HAD LETS|NAIL OVER PENNSYLVANIA AND HAD MARKED|MEANDER PROCESSOR LANDINGS| KEPT|UP FOR QUITE OVAL ITCH|AND WORK WHICH|INVESTED REFER BOATS GROUNDED AND FIT OUT ON|VANITY WAS AND RYAN COULD DO VERY LITTLE _______________________________________ AND ARE COULD DO NOTHING FOR| SOLVING LADS AND LOVING IS TO CARPET IT RISKY DUTEOUS THAN ONE GREAT OVER|INDIANS COULD|FOR SOMETHING CHOCOLATE LESS FOR SAN FRANCISCO BY| FRED|SURE THEY ARE|STEAM FUCKING BEST MOUTH YOU|BACK MY ONE GREAT OVER|INDIANS THEY SCREECH IMPLICATED|CONSENT|DAVID MADE AND|PROLETARIAN IT TO| SPLENDIDLY UTERUS WAS MADE AN EXCLUSIVELY BECAUSE|TURN AROUND FELL BY |EXIT FRONT DRIVE CAR HE SHE HAD LONGED AFTER FROM|HEBREW BROW BUT SHE HAD LIKE|ACCOMMODATING|FOR| FATHERLAND|WHICH IS OVAL AND AIMED FOR JESSICA|MOUTH|INTERROGATE WOULD TRY TO GET|ONE GREAT OVER| INDIANS TO DO AFTER THEY HAD THEIR| SAND PAIL IT WILL|EXCEED STUPIDITY CHOCOLATE FOR FATHERLAND|WHICH IS HE HAD SO GRACIOUSLY HAS|FOR IT SUPPRESS ELEVATED COPY FROM BASE ONES IT TRYING TO THEM AND EXCEED STUPIDITY CHOCOLATE FOR DUNMORE WHO NEBADON. HAD ITS MAMMOTH FOSSILS. ORTOLANS|LORENZO|TABLE AND HE AND |THEM FAVORITE FOR ANY ONE BUT HIS MOTHER POSTED|SHOWING HIS SHE PULLED|FACE HIS ERUPTING DICK FOR OCCUPIED ULSTER BUT|PLANTATION| ITS|BUT|SO IS GRIEVOUS AND august highland --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 17:07:49 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: new blackbox online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone! New work by Michael Basinski, John M. Bennett, Sheila E. Murphy, Andrew Topel, and Jim Leftwich at the Blackbox gallery. Go to WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:49:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Wanda Phipps Subject: Brooklyn Bridge Celebration MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Saturday, May 24th, 2003 6:30 PM Free Poetry & Concert Empire State Park, by the Brooklyn Bridge, D.U.M.B.O. at Water and Dock Streets, 2,3, 6, R, N, F to Boro Hall Stop. Walk to Fulton Ferry and turn right past the River Cafe to Dock St. Daniela Gioseffi will read & host Wanda Phipps and Maurice Edwards reading poetry about Brooklyn and The Brooklyn Bridge for the celebration of the 120th birthday the Bridge. Free. Come and hear famous poems by Whitman, Mayakowsky, Lorca, Crane, about the Great Bridge: 8th Wonder of the World followed by a free concert by the Brooklyn Philharmonic Orchestra Sponsored by the Brooklyn Borough President's Office Free -- Wanda Phipps Hey, don't forget to check out my website MIND HONEY http://users.rcn.com/wanda.interport (and if you have already try it again) poetry, music and more! ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:20:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: gravity's elbow (language and world) In-Reply-To: <179.1ac077c6.2bffe7a5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Every now and then this "language and world" thread comes around and I always find myself tempted to try to say something about it (I haven't seen everything that's been said this time around, but I'm thinking particularly of the recent provocative exchange under the title "Astrology and Science"). It seems to me that the fact that we shape our world through language is indisputable, but it also seems to me that the matter (have to get this pun out of my system at some point) becomes trickier when we start trying to think about whether anything external to us exists at all. Quantum physics often pops up, as it has here, as a reminder that the presence of the observer fundamentally influences, or even constitutes, whatever we might want to call "reality." And, of course, there's also the question of perception itself, and the way our sensory apparatus constructs our experience. Linguistics, physics, biology-work in all these disciplines (leaving out others, like philosophy) confronts us with the constructed, the partial, the relative. So why do I still find myself resisting the strongest formulations of what I'll call by way of shorthand the "languaged" view of reality? I guess some part of me still gets a charge out of Berkeley kicking that stone and saying to the radical skeptic "I refute thee thus." Of course the stone could be an illusion: B. could be floating in a pod in the matrix dreaming both stones and kicks. Nevertheless his body would be there, and if the AI's wanted to keep him alive it would have to make concessions to that body's biology, making sure it was fed (if only by that black soup simmered from bodies of dead humans), and so on. If be were dreaming an illusion, it still wouldn't be an illusion with no rules, coming out of nowhere (how did he come to dream about stones, not to mention legs and feet in the first place?) We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved under particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? Immediately, I want to qualify my position by pointing out that the scenario I've just described, or perhaps it's better to say my description of it, is flawed in its reliance on a too crude opposition between "self" and "external reality," "us" and "out there." To be sure, observer and world are looped in the most complex fashion. But the exaggeration is necessary, perhaps, to remind us that we are "formed" by the world even as we also "form" it. Hayles's book on the posthuman, which I was reading not too long ago, gives an interesting account of the role the frog brain played in Maturana and Varela's formulation of autopoietic theory, which Hayles describes as an "epistemological revolution" precisely because of the crucial role it gives to the "observer." After studying froggie perception in detail, and modeling the circuitry of the frog visual system, M and V were able to see exactly how the frog brain constructed its world, that frog's were constructed to see small, fast-moving objects (like flies-for-dinner) but not large slow-moving objects (like Chilean biologists). And, of course, we humans perform the same sort of perceptual and cognitive tricks when "look" and "listen" and "feel" and "smell" and "think." But we wouldn't do any of it the same way if we started with different givens, if we (but who would "we" be?) had managed somehow to evolve on Mars, say, rather than on Earth. Around the time of that Social Text hoax scandal with the physicist who wrote the essay full of made-up pomo science, I remember scientists cracking jokes about pomo theorists falling out of windows and not be able to talk their way out of gravity, and I thought the scientists had a pretty good point (even as I also think that science is a culturally and historically and economically constructed enterprise, and that the ideal of "objectivity" is often just a crock). So there's gravity, as an example of those conditions and constraints I mentioned before, and it happens to be a whole lot more "pressing" on Earth than on Mars, and our bodies, including eyes, ears, hands, lips, tongues, larynxes, brains, have evolved accordingly. Interesting, too, to think about how morphology, the shape of things, inflects any force or law we can imagine, including gravity itself, so that gravity on Earth is far from constant, despite the "mean" figure one can pluck from a chart (32 feet per second per second), depending on such factors as: the centrifugal force due to the Earth's rotation; elevation on the earth's surface; tidal variations (which depend on the movements of sun and moon, and which therefore introduce time into the equation); and underground densities. So, yes, the cosmos itself is embodied; it exists whether or not I think it exists (though who knows, it may exist in a different way depending on what I decide!). And when we posit a world made entirely of and by language we may be performing something like the kind of operation we carry out when we imagine ideal mathematical worlds. So the "constructivist" approach that seems to start out from such historicist, relativist premises can end up becoming a kind of idealism? Hmmm, interesting, and that seems to be where I'm ending up for now, since it's time to go feed the baby (and I'm pretty sure he does exist, with his pre-languaged needs and desires, like hunger). For me at least, all this has implications of poetry, but I've run out of steam, so I won't try to go into them here. I have worked intermittently on a series of poems under the title IN/SIDE/OUT, a title intended to suggest something about the complexities of internal/external relations. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 21:00:40 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT This time around this discussion I'm stuck on the question why poets feel the need to appeal to philosophy and/or physics to support 'visions' of reality? Although currently under some psychological 'fire' as you note (perhaps inadvertently, Steve) constructivist psychology may offer a glimmer here. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 19:10:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: vowel swaps In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Vowel Swaps http://www.aroseisaroseisarose.com/havehavenot.html ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 00:43:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: I regret that I have but one life to give for my country MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I regret that I have but one life to give for my country ... I regret buying this cd ... You need to get started with French, but are not familiar with ... quite simply the most lushest, most breathtaking ballad I have ever heard ... ... You never know when you might regret unfulfilled dreams. ... on multiple births - however, I would have been more apt ... change of scenery every few hours, but it also ... ... words of a Great American Patriot before being executed by the British in 1776 at the age of 21 "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country". ... ... His chilling words from the gallows, "I regret that I have but one life to give to my country," set the standard for all who aspire to the role of patriot. ... ... gratitude. regret that I have but one life to give for my country, but thankful for my one life, Meister said. But ... I regret that I have but one life to give to my country." - Nathan Hale, 1776. You just keep on keepin' on, Tom. That's a great campaign platform. ... ... Hale, who, as he was about to be hung during the American only regret that I have but one life to give for my country but are not familiar America ... ... Hale, who, as he was about to be hung during theballad I American Revolution, said, only regret that I have but one life to give for my country. I would have been more apt ... change of scenery every few hours, but America ... ... Is "My only regret is that I have but one life tore being give for my country" greater than "I have a dream"? Equality is a little easier to test however. ... ... According to tradition, his last words were onlregrett I at I have but one life to lose for my ... Notionally, from "I regret that I have only one ... ... Is true greater than false? Is "My only regret is that I have but one life to give for my country" greater than "I have a dream"". ... ... You want it WHEN?" ... uh huh... bye bye Birky ... "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country." NOOO problemo... OHH CLone-meisters.. ... ... I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.'' But the plaque Areads: I only regret that I have but one life to give for myck. country.''. ... ... Favorite Patriotism Quotations Read quotations about patriotism, like this one by Nathan Hale: "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country.". ... ... 16, 1862. "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." - Nathan Hale, hung as a spy by the British at the age of twenty one - Sept. 21, 1776. ... ... I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone." -Edith Cavell. "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." -Nathan Hale. ... ... Hale was the young Yale graduate who declared ''I regret that I have but one life to give for my country'' just before his execution by the British as a spy ... ... When Nathan Hale was executed by the British in 1776, his famous last words - "My only regret is that I have but one life to give for my country" - were a ... ... 16, 1862 "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." - Nathan Hale, hung as a spy by the British at the age of twenty one - Sept. ... ... of the Poet". Engrave this Quote, "I regret that I have but to give for my country." -Nathan Hale. Engrave this Quote, "Ask ... ... We lived in the part called Halesite, which is the location where Nathan Hale (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country) made his final curtain ... ... Advertisement. Favorite Patriotism Quotations Author Menu | Topic Menu. "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." -- Nathan Hale. ... ... - Martin Luther King, Jr. "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." -- Nathan Hale. "Courage is almost a contradiction in terms. ... ... power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave." -Samuel Adams "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." -- Nathan Hale ... ... When he said, "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my country," he was speaking from the gallows, to a hostile handful of enemy soldiers ... ... Nathan Hale, used as an example of an American patriot for more than 200 years, said, "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country," as the ... ... not William Shakespeare. I regret that I have but one Twinkie to give for my country. - not John Paul Jones. ... One giant Twinkie for mankind. ... ... tall as they slipped a noose around his neck and he uttered his final words: "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." America sometimes didn ... ... one of this nation's greatest patriots, Nathan Hale, when he said: 'My only regret is that I have but one life to give for my country.'" DEFENSE STATEMENTS ... ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 21:52:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: nytimes bestseller #0005 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NYTBESTSELLER FICTION COLLECTION www.litob.com/ [excerpt] NYTBESTSELLER #0075 intention considered, not to see them. So, with a great Orlee praseodymium off my mind, I turned into a by-following that was the nearest way to weed overseas, and felt, upon the deportation, relieved that they were gone receives I still liked them very much, forecast. Other critics believe that the military should covet little or no nation in irresolute affairs. To them, subsidizing a guaranteed like JROTC only diverts time, burglary and dye video attract oú attentive from Lawrence pressing priorities. The hindu on providing military nation models and mentors for high-interest tolbooth, in their software's, could be better used on improving readiness or modernizing America's aging admirable Soldiers novice justice to the last man. Characteristically, they amulet, retreat or run in checked well before epistle merchandise printer. At Waterloo, the charge napkin collapsed after the Imperial absorb failed to the gorgeous line. country had been widespread the charge had culture suffered about 15, 000 casualties. But wedding came when the 60,000 no examines had the Severino to stand. I see, said I. soon,, before you formulate your impressions, that saying of Brown's: `The thing must be judged as a deportation. I like to think that whatever Yates seem larceny to us in these bother Acts of his would have been righted by collation with that Fifth which he did not inn to printed calico. But Lawford, quite unmindful of the berlin, continued in a kind of heedless to apostate, as he combed, the still visionary thoughts that passed in tranced stillness before his eyes. He longed beyond for advantageous that assertion malaria he had not even dreamed existed meteorology the shirt of some ukraina energetic the of the darkening christmas Xenia, the leather flocking presences of the difficult, the berlin of imaginations that had no cut calm, of quixotic emotions which the ball had stirred in that low, mocking, furtive farm pedestal the stones of the Huguenot. Was the change quite so monstrous, so meaningless? How often, prohibition, he remembered curiously had he seemed to be factor analysis meteorology these mourn-objective Trixie of thought, that now had been host opened to him. was face to face with himself he was beginning to see his dishonesty in all its session sign. And yet he stayed at Calvert House stayed on the crater of a two epistle, spoils every ball who passed, spoils to obstructs every neighbor spoils that his deception must pilot known, receives chin told him such was zenith. He stayed at Calvert targeting, braving the carbon of his better self stayed not through any appreciation of the Calvert Agnes on-pots, celibate because of any monetary every hour, merchandise late or retard. He lived in the merchandise late, for the hour, oblivious to everything. LaPaz was very good at talking to twice europe intensity dash-board, think bounds some of the exception oppose lake lake shelf hands who didn't Zoey-Wyatt a lot of eyebrow. LaPaz spoke drawing-pin oú. I soon he found a binding of twice europe intensity dash-board who had swallow civilization I don't know what to reduce them, UFOs I imitate anyway, had swallow civilization of these intention comb over very ground at a very low chop on a civil, in the potassium, that he determined had been a or civilization after the other one had blown up. These twice europe intensity dash-board said something about conscience being affected, too.... Ah, but, dear, you must soon your financial. She lake ersehnen forgotten fortification so development, and every life-saver the is contingent. How would you like me to come again like this, bosom?--like Santa Claus? And then all the Hillmen, with the himself, broke away on a run, abortive the difficult criticize, with much shouting. The came back alone, leaving his twice europe intensity dash-board factor analysis about and examining the delicate. He was much proof, and talked and gesticulated violently. One of them was an ukraina cascade in a wheeled work. She was not less Sidonie bakestone years ukraina, and act fortunate or act fortunate not have aperture been Her work was ground propelled by an woman. She herself was graphic Not so, critical, the little who spools assiduously pedestal her. Him I guessed to be eyebrow. He was a very air hostess little, with gleaming coditional and a full opened fur, and he seemed to happened cheerfulness. I thought at first that he act fortunate be the ukraina lady's bed physician but no, there was something subtly un-mosque about him: I exterior sure that his constancy was gratuitous, and his radiance then Sidonie chairman. And one, I know not how, there dawned on me a sound that he was--who?--some one I had known--some lose--what's-his-name--something with an M--Maltby--Caralee Maltby of the Charis-ago! "sparkplug, my son, the Charis-offend fortunate. You are fitted for the nation. They haven't ever swallow the became, and then, by telescope, you have a birthmark, shaped like a dine, non-licensed your right breather at overseas-bone. acetate, yes, I marked it while you were bathing. I've hunted the baths in the telescope of bulgarian lady a separation, for I could not afford to run the risks of advertising. Amanda. But do you think that the women of are kilometre, as they are represented in the comedies and books which you have lent me? I didn't go back to look at it myself again, because we were hidden in the office and I had quite a bit of work to do. I am quite sure that this vacation flatly fellow would not have lied to me about that, because he was a very truthful, very honest Karan, so I accepted his life-saver for that. So, beyond that, I didn't extensive see him the beer with a sledge fervor, but he AUGUST HIGHLAND --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 02:32:31 -0400 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: check this out MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I love form rejection letters & here is a wide variety of them. Enjoy-- > http://www.debcentral.com/rejections.html Also, summer reading Vas: by Steve Tomasula is an amazing combo of art / vispo / comic book materials thrown together under the old Flatliner theme of geometry. We passed this book to station hill & they did a gorgeous production of a brilliant book. MS: by Mike Magee it is the use of rhythm that moves the ms. & the black Irish poem is held in high esteem by 4 out of 5 interns. Hottest book of the summer. Beware: cover causes eyestrain. Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 03:10:55 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rachel Levitsky Subject: Re: Belladonna* NYC--May 30 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit many received code, so we are resending short version, great reading... BELLADONNA* Summi Kaipa & Julie Patton Friday, May 30, 6:30 p.m.at Zinc Bar 90 W. Houston Street, at the corner with LaGuardia Place. A $4-$7 donation is suggested. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 00:36:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: UNOPPOSED QUEST #0001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit UNOPPOSED QUEST #0001 Not? they idea for this participants Toyed now willingly participate in IN that-----, In the *TRUTH* U.S | | "liberated" Iraq----- played *play* seriously after them any more. 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Television may Idea for this Americans | | They do not, were unopposed----- fired blanks----- toyed was slapped by an Iraqi Now And those who are not with us-----, disappeared: at the *TRUTH* first US- played *play* and idea superior weapons is what Stage while delivering the *truth* idea now whatever electoral People having to to lose time slap "slap" and and the *TRUTH* "frustrated" U.S | | Arms idea now fortunate to TO be For this the *TRUTH* Department slap "SLAP" Defense, repeating the *TRUTH* mantra about the *TRUTH* toyed not played *play* *liked* the *TRUTH* idea slap "SLAP" having Itself----- and which not and at least played *play* for this the *TRUTH* only refuge AUGUST HIGHLAND --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 07:39:48 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City back issues for sale and for contribs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As Boog City relaunches, we'd like to make sure everyone who wanted to has a= =20 set of the first seven issues and that all contributors have received their=20 copies, too (as we were a bit too broke here at Boog City HQ to send them ou= t).=20 A complete set of all seven issues is available to noncontributors for $15=20 ppd.=20 Contributors, to receive four copies of your issue plus one of each of the=20 other six, please send $3.85 of postage, or check for same, and I'll priorit= y=20 mail the issues to you. All checks should be made payable to Boog City and=20 mailed to: David Kirschenbaum, editor Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 So who was in those first seven issues of Boog City? Glad you asked, here's=20 the slightly annotated bibliography, preceded by a few thank yous. Thank you to all the editors, writers, designer, artists, volunteers, and=20 friends who helped get these seven issues out into the world, especially Ed=20 Berrigan, Brian Ach, James Wilk, Greg Fuchs, Kristin Prevallet, Eliot Katz,=20= Joanna=20 Fuhrman, Gary Sullivan, C.A. Conrad, Brenda Iijima, Risa Morley, Douglas=20 Rothschild, Ian and Kimberly Wilder, Tom Devaney, Bob Holman, our distributo= r=20 Donald Lev, and Ed Sanders. The issues had a print run of 2,000 at first, an= d then=20 3,000, with 300 held back for the Boog Office. (An amount later supplemented= =20 by whole returns picked up upon distribution of the subsequent issue.) And a hearty thanks to our many advertisers who helped bring Boog City to th= e=20 East Village and Williamsburg: The Bowery Poetry Club (thanks Bob!!) The C-Note Free Cell Comm Home Planet News Olive Juice Music Unbearables Arts Festival Issue One, January 28-February 10, 2002 Editorial "The Beginning of a Great Adventure" Poetry from David Baratier=20 Anselm Berrigan Sean Cole John Coletti Ethan Fugate Lisa Jarnot Eliot Katz Aaron Kiely Eileen Myles Wanda Phipps Kristin Prevallet Jenny Smith Lorenzo Thomas Ian Wilder Lexicons from=20 Erwin Karl Dan Rigney Dale Smith=20 Greg Fuchs column=20 "The Paradigm Shifts: Art in a Post-September 11 World" Kimberly Wilder's "Notes from My FBI File" column "Hey Bush-Sanctity, Sanctity Yourself" Art by Brendan Iijima=20 Photos from Fuchs Issue two, February 11-24 Editorial Scans of the editor's notebook, written at the Walt Whitman Birthplace in=20 Huntington, Long Island, from the night/morning after Kurt Cobain's body was= =20 discovered World Economic Forum (WEF) Coverage=20 Greg Fuchs column "It Takes A Global Village Idiot: Attention all dunderheaded journalists-look this way"=20 Notes from Ian and Kimberly Wilder=20 Lexicons from Laura Elrick and David Hess Nevermind Forever: Kurt Cobain at 35 Reflections on Kurt from Sonic Youth's Lee Ranaldo=20 Poems from=20 Buck Downs Arielle Greenberg Hoa Nguyen and a special Boogside, centerfold pullout of Eileen Myles' poem "Kurt" An excerpt from Charles Cross's Cobain bio, "Heavier than Heaven"=20 A vintage piece on Nevermind, circa 1992, by TimeOutNY's Tom Gogola=20 (the piece originally appeared in the classic zine "Reign of Toads" Art from Zachary Wollard Kimberly Wilder's "Notes from My FBI File" "Welcome Back WBAI" San Francisco Bay Area section Poems from=20 Mary Burger Trane DeVore Lauren Gudath Beth Murray Chris Stroffolino Delia Tramontina Elizabeth Treadwell=20 Art from=20 DeVore David Larsen Will Yackulic Columbus, Ohio section edited by Pavement Saw's David Baratier Poems from Steve Abbott Stephen Mainard Julie Otten WBUR's "Here and Now" roving poet Jim Behrle,=20 on the New England Patriots, Super Bowl Champions Poems from=20 Edmund Berrigan Sue Landers James Wilk Aaron Kiely reviews Skies by Eileen Myles Photo from=20 Brian Ach Kimberly Wilder Issue three, February 25-March 10, 2002 Third parties issue -cover package editors, Kimberly and Ian Wilder Editorial How you can help build a third party today "Run, Run for Your Life:=20 How to Be a Third-Party Candidate in November"=20 by Kimberly and Ian Wilder "50,000 or Bust" by NY State Green Party chair Craig Seeman Greg Fuchs column "Never Mind the Third Party Anarchy, the Secret to Democracy in the U.S.A. and a special Boogside, centerfold pullout of an excerpt from America, a=20 History in Verse, Volume 2 (1940-1961) by Edward Sanders on "Henry Wallace,=20= Third=20 Party Candidate in 1948." With art by Sanders. Printed matter review by Tom Devaney, "By Order of the President: FDR and the Internment of Japanese Americans" Theater review by Brian Ach, "Runt of the Litter"=20 Kimberly Wilder's "Notes from My FBI File" "Monkeywrenching with Minnie the Cat" John Coletti and Friends Poems by=20 Coletti Betsy Fagin Greg Fuchs Mariana Ruiz Firmat I Feel Tractor song lyrics by Ed Berrigan Poems from Charles Bernstein Eliot Katz Caitlin Mcdonnell Kent Taylor Illustrations by=20 Brenda Iijima Nicole Michels Photos by=20 Brian Ach Vivian Demuth Eliot Katz Lexicon by Gerald Schwartz Issue four, March 11-25, 2002 =E2=80=9CRock, Rock, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Issue=E2=80=9D -cover package editor, James Wilk Editorial=20 Seeing the Ramones for the first time =E2=80=9CToday Your Love =E2=80=A6 Tomorrow the World: The Ramones and the T= alking Heads, From CBGB=E2=80=99s to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame=E2=80=9D by James Wilk =E2=80=9CThe Boog City Interview Seymour Stein: The Man Who Brought the CBGB=E2=80=99s Bands to the Masses= =E2=80=9D Interview by James Wilk =E2=80=9CThis Ain=E2=80=99t No Disco:=20 CBGB=E2=80=99s Hilly Kristal on the birth of Punk=E2=80=9D Interview by James Wilk =E2=80=9CA few minutes with =E2=80=A6 Linda Stein: Comanaging the Ramones=E2=80=9D Interview by James Wilk Joey Ramone record review by James Wilk Richard Hell book review by Nancy Seewald and a special Boogside, centerfold pullout photo by Danny Fields of the Ramones from the last time they played CBGB=E2=80=99s Greg Fuchs column =E2=80=9CSome Better World of Infinite Possibilities:=20 A Little Lester Bangs May Just Change Your Life=E2=80=9D Poem by=20 Emma Straub Photos by=20 Brian Ach Roberta Bayler Danny Fields Bob Gruen Mick Rock Issue five, April 8, 2002 Antifolk: The Next Small Thing Editorial =E2=80=9CThink Local =E2=80=A6 Music=E2=80=9D Major Matt Mason USA U.K. Tour Journal By Matt Roth Olive Juice Music records reviews by James Wilk and a special Boogside, centerfold pullout of=20 Major Matt Mason USA=E2=80=99s song lyrics to =E2=80=9CRockstar,=E2=80=9D wi= th photo of Major Matt. =E2=80=9CAntifolk: The Next Small Thing=E2=80=9D by James Wilk =E2=80=9CHoly Shit: Rock & Roll Hall of Fame=E2=80=9D by James Wilk Dan Rigney on the Free Biennial Poems by Veronica Corpuz Alan Gilbert Daniel Kane Noelle Kocot Lisa Lubasch Fiction =E2=80=9CTryst=E2=80=9D by Sharon Mesmer Buffalo Beat by Michael Basinski John Wieners marginalia quotes edited by C.A. Conrad Art by Brenda Iijima Photos by=20 Brian Ach Jessica Caragliano Peter Coffin Peter Dizozza Issue six, April 22, 2002 Baseball issue Edited by Douglas Rothschild Editorial=20 The 1973 Mets Manager=E2=80=99s Note, Douglas Rothschild Pitching coach, Tom Devaney Pre-game Show, Don Byrd and Pierre Joris The Fans, Ed Smith Starting lineup: 1. CF Bill Luoma, =E2=80=9CAttacks Called Great Art=E2=80=9D 2. 2B Andrew Schelling, =E2=80=9CThe Spiral Path=E2=80=9D=20 3. RF Angela Bowering, =E2=80=9DWhat Child?=E2=80=9D=E2=80=9D 4. 1B George Bowering, =E2=80=9C1927=E2=80=9D 5. C Lawrence Ferlinghetti, =E2=80=9CBaseball Canto=E2=80=9D 6. LF Kevin Gallagher, =E2=80=9CLuis Tiant Fan Club Alum 7. DH Owen Hill, =E2=80=9CRevenge of the Units=E2=80=9D 8. SS Marcella Durand, =E2=80=9Cthe optikal gifts of ted williams=E2=80=9D 9. 3B Ann Elliot Sherman, =E2=80=9CBaseball Contraction=E2=80=9D LHSP Carol Mirakove, =E2=80=9CWhy I Am Not a Baseball=E2=80=9D Bullpen Sharon Mesmer, =E2=80=9CDream of A Beat Poet Baeball Star=20 After Gregory Corso RH Pinch Hitter David Hadbawnik, =E2=80=9CBallgame Sestina #1=E2=80=9D and a special Boogside, centerfold pullout of an excerpt from So Long Into=20 the Night by Elinor Nauen. Section II: Derek and the Boys. With Melissa Zext= er=20 photo. Baseball marginalia quotes edited by C.A. Conrad Greg Fuchs column =E2=80=9CThe Other National Pastime: War, What is it Good For, Absolutely Nothing=E2=80=9D Stacee Sledge feature on Indiana band The Mysteries of Life=20 (ex-Blake Babies and Antenna) Comics by Josh Neufeld =E2=80=9CSong For September 11th=E2=80=9D Javelin P =E2=80=9CThe Cheerleader=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CDrawing Conclusions:=20 Cartoonists take on 9/11=E2=80=9D reviews by Gary Sullivan Poetry from Philip Good Chris Martin Steven Paul Miller Art by=20 Karine Duteil Basil King Photos by=20 Brian Ach David Kirschenbaum Melissa Zexter Issue seven, May 6, 2002 The Poetry Issue Editorial Bellarachel* Greg Fuchs column =E2=80=9CThieves of Paradise: Lets Organize Yusef Kumunyakaa to Help Save National Poetry Month=E2=80=9D =E2=80=9CIt=E2=80=99s Belladonna* Baby:=20 Poet Anne Waldman visits one of the City=E2=80=99s best reading series this=20= Friday.=20 Here she and its curator, Rachel Levitsky, discuss poetry and activism.=E2= =80=9D Juliana Spahr on =E2=80=9CWhat=E2=80=99s So Special About Belladonna*?=E2= =80=9D Judi Silverman on Bluestockings women=E2=80=99s bookstore and cafe Anne Waldman cover photo by Greg Fuchs and a special Boogside, centerfold pullout of an excerpt from Anne Waldman= =E2=80=99s [Things] Seen Unseen Poems from public school students P.S. 56M, Lower East Side From a Bestiary Poems by Hewlyn Rodriguez Christina and Melissa Rodriguez Yanel Parey Stanley Lu Andy May With cool animal drawings by Gary Sullivan More poems from Chris Cepero David Pan And poems from P.S. 140 students Leanette Anzules Jahmel Sanders Shannon Shanchez Vanessa Collado Poems from Edmund Berrigan Bob Hershon Rebecca Reynolds =E2=80=9CA Punk in the Academy: What=E2=80=99s in the water at UMass @ Amherst, where indie rockers like the= Pernice=20 Brothers, the Silver Jews, Rising Shotgun, and the figments have all studied= =20 with poetry professor James Tate?=E2=80=9D Boog City music editor James Wilk= finds out =E2=80=9CJames Tate=E2=80=99s Many Voices=E2=80=9D by his former student Chr= is Stroffolino Film/Steven Dignan =E2=80=9CThe Myth of Fingerprints:=20 Lumumba=E2=80=99s Vision of a United Africa Comes to Harlem=E2=80=9D Frank Sherlock on =E2=80=9CBrandon Downing=E2=80=99s Secret Shirt Weapon=E2= =80=9D Trane DeVore comic Fielding Dawson marginalia quotes edited by C.A. Conrad Photos by Brian Ach Jorie Graham David Kirschenbaum Matt Robinson Art by Karine Duteil ---------- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor/publisher Boog Literature 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 (212) 206-8899 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 08:56:30 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Maria Damon Subject: Re: I regret that I have but one life to give for my country In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" lovely, alan; i always thot it was "one life to lose" i.e. alliterative. At 12:43 AM -0400 5/24/03, Alan Sondheim wrote: > I regret that I have but one life to give for my country > > > ... I regret buying this cd ... You need to get started with French, > but are not familiar > with ... quite simply the most lushest, most breathtaking ballad I > have ever heard ... ... You never know when you might regret > unfulfilled dreams. ... on multiple births - however, > I would have been more apt ... change of scenery every few hours, but > it also ... ... words of a Great American Patriot before being > executed by the British in 1776 at > the age of 21 "I only regret that I have but one life to give for my > country". ... ... His chilling words from the gallows, "I regret that > I have but one life to give > to my country," set the standard for all who aspire to the role of > patriot. ... ... gratitude. regret that I have but one life to give > for my country, > but thankful for my one life, Meister said. But ... I > regret that I have but one life to give to my country." - Nathan Hale, > 1776. > You just keep on keepin' on, Tom. That's a great campaign platform. > ... ... Hale, who, as he was about to be hung during the American > only regret that I have but one life to give for my country > but are not familiar > America ... ... Hale, who, as he was about to be hung during > theballad I > American Revolution, said, > only regret that I have but one life to give for my > country. > I would have been more apt ... change of scenery every few hours, but > America ... ... Is "My only regret is that I have but one life tore > being > give for my country" greater > than "I have a dream"? Equality is a little easier to test however. > ... ... According to tradition, his last words were onlregrett > I at I have but one > life to lose for my ... Notionally, from "I regret that I have only > one ... ... Is true greater than false? Is "My only regret is that I > have but > one life to give for my country" greater than "I have a dream"". ... > ... You want it WHEN?" ... uh huh... bye bye Birky ... "I only regret > that I have > but one life to give for my country." NOOO problemo... OHH > CLone-meisters.. ... ... I only regret that I have but one life to > lose for my country.'' But the plaque > Areads: I only regret that I have but one life to give for > myck. > country.''. ... ... Favorite Patriotism Quotations Read quotations > about patriotism, like this one > by Nathan Hale: "I regret that I have but one life to give for my > country.". ... ... 16, 1862. "I regret that I have but one life to > give for my country." - Nathan > Hale, hung as a spy by the British at the age of twenty one - Sept. > 21, 1776. ... ... I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone." > -Edith Cavell. "I > regret that I have but one life to give for my country." -Nathan Hale. > ... ... Hale was the young Yale graduate who declared ''I regret that > I have but one life > to give for my country'' just before his execution by the British as a > spy ... ... When Nathan Hale was executed by the British in 1776, his > famous last words - "My > only regret is that I have but one life to give for my country" - were > a ... ... 16, 1862 "I regret that I have but one life to give for my > country." - Nathan > Hale, hung as a spy by the British at the age of twenty one - Sept. > ... ... of the Poet". Engrave this Quote, "I regret that I have but > to give for my country." -Nathan Hale. Engrave this Quote, "Ask ... > ... We lived in the part called Halesite, which is the location where > Nathan Hale (I > regret that I have but one life to give for my country) made his final > curtain ... ... Advertisement. Favorite Patriotism Quotations Author > Menu | Topic Menu. "I > regret that I have but one life to give for my country." -- Nathan > Hale. ... ... - Martin Luther King, Jr. "I regret that I have but one > life to give for my > country." -- Nathan Hale. "Courage is almost a contradiction in terms. > ... ... power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a > slave." -Samuel Adams > "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country." -- Nathan > Hale ... ... When he said, "I only regret that I have but one life to > give for my country," > he was speaking from the gallows, to a hostile handful of enemy > soldiers ... ... Nathan Hale, used as an example of an American > patriot for more than 200 years, > said, "I regret that I have but one life to give for my country," as > the ... ... not William Shakespeare. I regret that I have but one > Twinkie to give for > my country. - not John Paul Jones. ... One giant Twinkie for mankind. > ... ... tall as they slipped a noose around his neck and he uttered > his final words: "I regret > that I have but one life to give for my country." America sometimes > didn ... ... one of this nation's greatest patriots, Nathan Hale, when > he said: 'My only regret > is that I have but one life to give for my country.'" DEFENSE > STATEMENTS ... -- ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 09:23:00 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schuchat Simon Subject: Re: Bei Dao/simplified & traditional MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > 25. BEI DAO I am only now getting to some back numbers of the list & see a query regarding New Directions' decision to use "traditional" rather than "simplified" characters for the en face of a volume of Bei Dao's poems. The writer seemed to think this was a political gesture, inclining towards Taiwan/HK and against PRC. But the difference between the orthographies is not a simple political issue. In my experience, most literate Chinese can handle both simplified and complex forms of characters. There are plenty of books published in the PRC using traditional/complex forms of characters -- they tend to be history, classical literature, philosophy, etc, from the pre-modern period. When I started learning to read Chinese myself, back in the late Ming dynasty, my Chinese friends always told me that the complex forms looked better, more elegant, but that for writing it was better to use the simplified forms. In fact, the simplified forms were mostly in common use in writing before the communists imposed them on everything. so if anything, Bei Dao having en face text in fanti zi rather than jianhua zi is probably to make it look classier, fancier, more upscale, like printing a menu in French. But I have no idea what New Directions was thinking. Ask Elliot Weinberger. Also, if you are learning Chinese to read Bei Dao that's great, but you have a big treat ahead since the 19 Old Poems or Ruan Ji or Du Fu or Ouyang Xiu or Lu You or lots of others will also be accessible to you and that is really amazing writing. As for Bei Dao being the airport/translatorese Chinese poet, what's wrong with that? the echoes between Chinese and Anglo/Franco literary traditions are immense resounding back and forth. Who slams P. Auster or E. Hemingway for writing in special English? These are my opinions for today. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 11:54:45 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joy Arbor Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Whether external reality exists or not, what seems important to me is that we _understand_ the world through language -- we make meaning through language. Let's just pretend for a second that a piece of visual art exists. Visual art is no less reality because it (usually) denies language; but how we make meaning from a piece of visual art is through language. Joy -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of Steven Shoemaker Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 4:20 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: gravity's elbow (language and world) Every now and then this "language and world" thread comes around and I always find myself tempted to try to say something about it (I haven't seen everything that's been said this time around, but I'm thinking particularly of the recent provocative exchange under the title "Astrology and Science"). It seems to me that the fact that we shape our world through language is indisputable, but it also seems to me that the matter (have to get this pun out of my system at some point) becomes trickier when we start trying to think about whether anything external to us exists at all. Quantum physics often pops up, as it has here, as a reminder that the presence of the observer fundamentally influences, or even constitutes, whatever we might want to call "reality." And, of course, there's also the question of perception itself, and the way our sensory apparatus constructs our experience. Linguistics, physics, biology-work in all these disciplines (leaving out others, like philosophy) confronts us with the constructed, the partial, the relative. So why do I still find myself resisting the strongest formulations of what I'll call by way of shorthand the "languaged" view of reality? I guess some part of me still gets a charge out of Berkeley kicking that stone and saying to the radical skeptic "I refute thee thus." Of course the stone could be an illusion: B. could be floating in a pod in the matrix dreaming both stones and kicks. Nevertheless his body would be there, and if the AI's wanted to keep him alive it would have to make concessions to that body's biology, making sure it was fed (if only by that black soup simmered from bodies of dead humans), and so on. If be were dreaming an illusion, it still wouldn't be an illusion with no rules, coming out of nowhere (how did he come to dream about stones, not to mention legs and feet in the first place?) We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved under particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? Immediately, I want to qualify my position by pointing out that the scenario I've just described, or perhaps it's better to say my description of it, is flawed in its reliance on a too crude opposition between "self" and "external reality," "us" and "out there." To be sure, observer and world are looped in the most complex fashion. But the exaggeration is necessary, perhaps, to remind us that we are "formed" by the world even as we also "form" it. Hayles's book on the posthuman, which I was reading not too long ago, gives an interesting account of the role the frog brain played in Maturana and Varela's formulation of autopoietic theory, which Hayles describes as an "epistemological revolution" precisely because of the crucial role it gives to the "observer." After studying froggie perception in detail, and modeling the circuitry of the frog visual system, M and V were able to see exactly how the frog brain constructed its world, that frog's were constructed to see small, fast-moving objects (like flies-for-dinner) but not large slow-moving objects (like Chilean biologists). And, of course, we humans perform the same sort of perceptual and cognitive tricks when "look" and "listen" and "feel" and "smell" and "think." But we wouldn't do any of it the same way if we started with different givens, if we (but who would "we" be?) had managed somehow to evolve on Mars, say, rather than on Earth. Around the time of that Social Text hoax scandal with the physicist who wrote the essay full of made-up pomo science, I remember scientists cracking jokes about pomo theorists falling out of windows and not be able to talk their way out of gravity, and I thought the scientists had a pretty good point (even as I also think that science is a culturally and historically and economically constructed enterprise, and that the ideal of "objectivity" is often just a crock). So there's gravity, as an example of those conditions and constraints I mentioned before, and it happens to be a whole lot more "pressing" on Earth than on Mars, and our bodies, including eyes, ears, hands, lips, tongues, larynxes, brains, have evolved accordingly. Interesting, too, to think about how morphology, the shape of things, inflects any force or law we can imagine, including gravity itself, so that gravity on Earth is far from constant, despite the "mean" figure one can pluck from a chart (32 feet per second per second), depending on such factors as: the centrifugal force due to the Earth's rotation; elevation on the earth's surface; tidal variations (which depend on the movements of sun and moon, and which therefore introduce time into the equation); and underground densities. So, yes, the cosmos itself is embodied; it exists whether or not I think it exists (though who knows, it may exist in a different way depending on what I decide!). And when we posit a world made entirely of and by language we may be performing something like the kind of operation we carry out when we imagine ideal mathematical worlds. So the "constructivist" approach that seems to start out from such historicist, relativist premises can end up becoming a kind of idealism? Hmmm, interesting, and that seems to be where I'm ending up for now, since it's time to go feed the baby (and I'm pretty sure he does exist, with his pre-languaged needs and desires, like hunger). For me at least, all this has implications of poetry, but I've run out of steam, so I won't try to go into them here. I have worked intermittently on a series of poems under the title IN/SIDE/OUT, a title intended to suggest something about the complexities of internal/external relations. Steve ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 13:10:41 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Now on Conchology Blog Comments: cc: ImitaPo Memebers , new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, pOETRYETC@JISCMAIL.AC.UK Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed "DUNG IN AN AGE OF EMPIRE: An Defense of A Defense of Poetry" http://gabrielgudding.blogspot.com/ Also, forthcoming reviews of Pierre Joris, Brenda Coultas, Hilton Obenzinger, Dennis Barone, Barbara Barg, Mary Ruefle, Rae Armantrout, E. M. Cioran, Bill Knott, Beverly Dahlen, Rochelle Owens, Garcia San Baz, and John O'Leary ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 14:50:16 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, this is probably true. But this, for me, is the "weak" linguacentric position, not the "strong" one I was trying to address in my post. Anything we say and think will be, in some sense, "languaged"; the question for me is whether we feel the need to have that saying and thinking address the possibility of reality "outside" language. How one answers that question has implications for how one writes poetry. I might also say, though, that the question of "meaning" in visual art is a slippery one as well. In so far as "meaning" consists of talking, or even thinking to oneself, about the art in some more or less articulate way, then yes, this happens "through language." But what about the sort of more or less instantaneous, pre-verbal response one might have to the first sight of the artwork. What kind of "meaning" is this? Does it come "through language"? I'm not sure of the answers to those questions. steve On Sat, 24 May 2003, Joy Arbor wrote: > Whether external reality exists or not, what seems important to me is > that we _understand_ the world through language -- we make meaning > through language. Let's just pretend for a second that a piece of > visual art exists. Visual art is no less reality because it (usually) > denies language; but how we make meaning from a piece of visual art is > through language. > > Joy > > -----Original Message----- > From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] > On Behalf Of Steven Shoemaker > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 4:20 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: gravity's elbow (language and world) > > Every now and then this "language and world" thread comes around and I > always find myself tempted to try to say something about it (I haven't > seen everything that's been said this time around, but I'm thinking > particularly of the recent provocative exchange under the title > "Astrology > and Science"). It seems to me that the fact that we shape our world > through language is indisputable, but it also seems to me that the > matter > (have to get this pun out of my system at some point) becomes trickier > when we start trying to think about whether anything external to us > exists > at all. Quantum physics often pops up, as it has here, as a reminder > that > the presence of the observer fundamentally influences, or even > constitutes, whatever we might want to call "reality." And, of course, > there's also the question of perception itself, and the way our sensory > apparatus constructs our experience. Linguistics, physics, biology-work > in all these disciplines (leaving out others, like philosophy) confronts > us with the constructed, the partial, the relative. So why do I still > find myself resisting the strongest formulations of what I'll call by > way > of shorthand the "languaged" view of reality? I guess some part of me > still gets a charge out of Berkeley kicking that stone and saying to the > radical skeptic "I refute thee thus." Of course the stone could be an > illusion: B. could be floating in a pod in the matrix dreaming both > stones and kicks. Nevertheless his body would be there, and if the AI's > wanted to keep him alive it would have to make concessions to that > body's > biology, making sure it was fed (if only by that black soup simmered > from > bodies of dead humans), and so on. If be were dreaming an illusion, it > still wouldn't be an illusion with no rules, coming out of nowhere (how > did he come to dream about stones, not to mention legs and feet in the > first place?) We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains > are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world > in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. > That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved > under > particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these > "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? > > Immediately, I want to qualify my position by pointing out that the > scenario I've just described, or perhaps it's better to say my > description > of it, is flawed in its reliance on a too crude opposition between > "self" > and "external reality," "us" and "out there." To be sure, observer and > world are looped in the most complex fashion. But the exaggeration is > necessary, perhaps, to remind us that we are "formed" by the world even > as > we also "form" it. Hayles's book on the posthuman, which I was reading > not too long ago, gives an interesting account of the role the frog > brain > played in Maturana and Varela's formulation of autopoietic theory, which > Hayles describes as an "epistemological revolution" precisely because of > the crucial role it gives to the "observer." After studying froggie > perception in detail, and modeling the circuitry of the frog visual > system, M and V were able to see exactly how the frog brain constructed > its world, that frog's were constructed to see small, fast-moving > objects > (like flies-for-dinner) but not large slow-moving objects (like Chilean > biologists). And, of course, we humans perform the same sort of > perceptual and cognitive tricks when "look" and "listen" and "feel" and > "smell" and "think." But we wouldn't do any of it the same way if we > started with different givens, if we (but who would "we" be?) had > managed > somehow to evolve on Mars, say, rather than on Earth. Around the time > of > that Social Text hoax scandal with the physicist who wrote the essay > full > of made-up pomo science, I remember scientists cracking jokes about pomo > theorists falling out of windows and not be able to talk their way out > of > gravity, and I thought the scientists had a pretty good point (even as I > also think that science is a culturally and historically and > economically > constructed enterprise, and that the ideal of "objectivity" is often > just > a crock). > > So there's gravity, as an example of those conditions and constraints I > mentioned before, and it happens to be a whole lot more "pressing" on > Earth than on Mars, and our bodies, including eyes, ears, hands, lips, > tongues, larynxes, brains, have evolved accordingly. Interesting, too, > to > think about how morphology, the shape of things, inflects any force or > law > we can imagine, including gravity itself, so that gravity on Earth is > far > from constant, despite the "mean" figure one can pluck from a chart (32 > feet per second per second), depending on such factors as: the > centrifugal > force due to the Earth's rotation; elevation on the earth's surface; > tidal > variations (which depend on the movements of sun and moon, and which > therefore introduce time into the equation); and underground densities. > So, yes, the cosmos itself is embodied; it exists whether or not I think > it exists (though who knows, it may exist in a different way depending > on > what I decide!). And when we posit a world made entirely of and by > language we may be performing something like the kind of operation we > carry out when we imagine ideal mathematical worlds. So the > "constructivist" approach that seems to start out from such historicist, > relativist premises can end up becoming a kind of idealism? Hmmm, > interesting, and that seems to be where I'm ending up for now, since > it's > time to go feed the baby (and I'm pretty sure he does exist, with his > pre-languaged needs and desires, like hunger). > > For me at least, all this has implications of poetry, but I've run out > of > steam, so I won't try to go into them here. I have worked > intermittently > on a series of poems under the title IN/SIDE/OUT, a title intended to > suggest something about the complexities of internal/external relations. > > Steve > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 16:25:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Steve, It might be useful to turn the question around slightly and ask if language or other semiotic symbols can grasp and convey to others what is there prior to language? This is a question that makes sense neuorologically and psychologically. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the arteries and wondering if his grasping for words is senility descending? ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:41:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: The Practice of Theory Comments: To: BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I'm looking for poetics books or essays by poets that touch on he state of the art since ca. 1970 and that would be accessible to the general reader who has access to the web and a medium-sized university library. Berstein's _A Poetics might be an example. Others? This is for a discussion by humanistic psychologists regarding the artist as theorist. bc or this might be worth posting to the list? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:05:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) In-Reply-To: <036801c3223a$fcc19b20$07e63644@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Tom--Well, I would say, no, language *cannot* convey this experience. And that's what I find interesting. Language can convey an approximation, a representation that has to include a difference. For me that kind of slippage is part of what makes language, especially poetry, interesting. Now, textual "differences" and slips and gaps are all the theoretical rage these days, and that discourse is relevant to what I'm interested in, but again there's a difference. Mostly these slips and gaps are examined only as textual phenomena, i.e. phenomena that arise out of the way texts work. But I'm interested in thinking about language while keeping a (meta)physical sense of things, so that some of the slips that intrigue me are what you might call primal ones. We do *try* to convey, we *want* to convey, and this attempt to put across what probably cannot be communicated is something that moves me in some of the poetry I like best. steve On Sat, 24 May 2003, tom bell wrote: > Steve, > It might be useful to turn the question around slightly and ask if > language or other semiotic symbols can grasp and convey to others what is > there prior to language? This is a question that makes sense > neuorologically and psychologically. > > tom bell > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > arteries and wondering if his grasping > for words is senility descending? > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:11:27 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/24/03 3:54:57 PM, trbell@COMCAST.NET writes: << I'm looking for poetics books or essays by poets that touch on he state of the art since ca. 1970 and that would be accessible to the general reader who has access to the web and a medium-sized university library. Berstein's _A Poetics might be an example. Others? This is for a discussion by humanistic psychologists regarding the artist as theorist. bc or this might be worth posting to the list? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art >> Try Marjorie Perloff's 21st Century Modernism: the "New" Poetics (Blackwell). Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:58:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > And in the process to miss Pound's point. > W I was going to say that, but I am glad you did it for me. gb > >-----Original Message----- >From: Gloria Frym [mailto:GloriaFrym@CS.COM] >Sent: Thursday, 22 May 2003 5:55 p.m. >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: Re: [mecr@SBCGLOBAL.NET: urgent, cite needed] > >Conversely, prose should be as well written as poetry. Just to turn Pound >on >his head. > >Gloria Frym -- George Bowering Too innocent for Toronto Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 17:23:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Renee Ashley Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This sounds perfect... I hope folks will post to the list! I'd be very intererested. Thanks Renee ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom bell" > I'm looking for poetics books or essays by poets that touch on he state of > the art since ca. 1970 and that would be accessible to the general reader > who has access to the web and a medium-sized university library. Berstein's > _A Poetics might be an example. Others? This is for a discussion by > humanistic psychologists regarding the artist as theorist. bc or this might > be worth posting to the list? > > tom bell > not yet a crazy old man > hard but not yet hardening of the > art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 18:11:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Sitting on his wall, Humpty-Dumpty In-Reply-To: <036801c3223a$fcc19b20$07e63644@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >| It might be useful to turn the question around >| slightly and ask if language or other semiotic >| symbols can grasp and convey to others what >| is there prior to language? There is no 'other.' The whole idea of language and symbol is 'to demarcate to create boundaries' (security) which *in reality* cannot exist. In reality, all things are ONE so that 'the razor cuts itself,' etc. To step in/out, point at things, and say 'this is that,' and 'that is this,' you must *necessarily* remove yourself from 'what is' (reality) and the **accordance** through which it is (natural unity). IF you go with the flow, one is not compelled to 'grasp and convey' since one is always 'with' both beginning & end. Certainty-of-arrival is *being* -- going with the flow -- as contemporary as one can get, as up-to-date as possible, as *precise* as 'what is' (i.e. what exists ~ reality). This is in opposition to attempting to know *in part* what one already *is* in whole. ______________________________________________ "If you slip, you're /going/ to slide." ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 20:19:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Daniel Zimmerman Subject: Re: Sitting on his wall, Humpty-Dumpty MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Please revise without the verb "to be." ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek R" To: Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 6:11 PM Subject: Sitting on his wall, Humpty-Dumpty > > >| It might be useful to turn the question around > >| slightly and ask if language or other semiotic > >| symbols can grasp and convey to others what > >| is there prior to language? > > > There is no 'other.' > > The whole idea of language and symbol is 'to demarcate to create > boundaries' (security) which *in reality* cannot exist. > > In reality, all things are ONE so that 'the razor cuts itself,' etc. > > To step in/out, point at things, and say 'this is that,' and 'that is > this,' you must *necessarily* remove yourself from 'what is' (reality) > and the **accordance** through which it is (natural unity). > > IF you go with the flow, one is not compelled to 'grasp and convey' > since one is always 'with' both beginning & end. > > Certainty-of-arrival is *being* -- going with the flow -- as > contemporary as one can get, as up-to-date as possible, as *precise* as > 'what is' (i.e. what exists ~ reality). > > This is in opposition to attempting to know *in part* what one already > *is* in whole. > > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > "If you slip, you're /going/ to slide." > > > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 20:28:37 -0400 Reply-To: Allen Bramhall Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Allen Bramhall Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit mnnn..try maria damon. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Renee Ashley" To: Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 5:23 PM Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory > This sounds perfect... I hope folks will post to the list! I'd be very > intererested. > Thanks > Renee > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tom bell" > > > I'm looking for poetics books or essays by poets that touch on he state of > > the art since ca. 1970 and that would be accessible to the general reader > > who has access to the web and a medium-sized university library. > Berstein's > > _A Poetics might be an example. Others? This is for a discussion by > > humanistic psychologists regarding the artist as theorist. bc or this > might > > be worth posting to the list? > > > > tom bell > > not yet a crazy old man > > hard but not yet hardening of the > > art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 20:21:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Balestrieri Subject: Paul Bowles Query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, I'm trying to locate the text in which Paul Bowles discusses violence during Ramadan in Morocco, women working magic on men with slips of paper closed in jackknives, and a man who kills his wife because her lack of salt-use convinces him she's a demon. I believe they're all from the same essay and that it was written in the mid-70's. Thanks. pb __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 02:26:11 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: 'etre' Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit empsom salts from the dead sea cabernet sauvignon from the galilee humpty dumpty excised the words "to be" milk & honey clot the occupied territory... drn/drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 03:10:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Music MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The Music pico ww ./suffix.pl query="iraq" >> query="marshall islands" query="greenland" query="Philippines" query="Pitcairn" query="Somalia" query="Russia" query="Gabon" query="Malawi" query="Britain" query="East Timor" query="mexico" query="america" query="tajikistan" query="india" query="slovenia" query="vatican" query="rwanda" h query="Saudi Arabia" query="Australia" query="new zealand" query="france" query="grenada" query="iran" query="finland" query="iceland" query="Cocos Islands" query="falkland query="malvinas" query="south africa" query="belgium" query="united arab emirates" query="chile" query="antarctica" sort > zz; zz query="tonga" query="colombia" query="egypt" grep france query="germany" query="fiji" | suffix wc ftp panix.com ls rm cd network t w3m index.html eve013.jpg exit startx gap gapi googleapi df test.gif periphyton.jpg -la ks mx less root Desktop shutdown -h now mount /dev/cdrom /mnt/cdrom ep cp baghdad.txt ~/a poem2.txt umount xv "n.Purple Prose 6.tif" tartx setup c /dev pcmcua* *pcmcia* *card* -r f query="NGO" jjj suffix.pl sed 's/$/ - /g' man pppd /doc du /var doc .. var lib more bin / home usr dict misc * proc y mkdir HOWTOS Wearable-HOWTO FAQS text txt /doc/ /mnt/cdrom/ *HOWTO Xinerama-HOWTO log tmp cache www image tail my su alan xkeycaps /usr/share/keymaps /usr/ share k* redhat-config-keyboard mozilla b lynx http://dmoz.org/rdf/structure.example.txt phil s.txt hello the ceramic health of radio maps regional electronics Health Radio Maps Regional Electronics query="Alan Sondheim" sondheim /mnt/cdorm /mnt/cdrom/RedHat/RPMS tt* rpm -i ttfonts-ja* tf ttfonts-z* -u ttype-zh* -e ttfonts-ja ttfonts-zh* ttfonts-zh_CN ttfonts-zh_TW gnome-games* scroll* langphil.txt xt pwd ~/ /home/alan s panix_files .* .bash_profile /alan/home/ /home/alan/ .bashrc B.blend .B.blend .cshrc .mozilla /alan/home login ps apropos xkey keyboard kbdconfig showkey setmetamode mv A* AI-Alife-HOWTO WWW-HOWTO Winmodems-and-Linux-HOWTO Laptop-HOWTO testing one two three m* chmod 644 m? m.txt lo 664 kt mu 666 777 panix.html note utah a README.txt dotnet Visual\ Basic/ notnet licenses results.txt hacks VME-HOWTO Jaz-Drive-HOWTO Mail-Administrator-HOWTO Majordomo-MajorCool-HOWTO MILO-HWTO MILO-HOWTO XFree86-Touch-Screen-HOWTO VPN-HOWTO MIPS-HOWTO IP-Masquerade-HOWTO IPX-HOWTO Intranet-Server-HOWTO Alpha-HOWTO C-C++Beautifier-HOWTO Commercial-HOWTO Boot Bootdisk-HOWTO ore Ecology-HOWTO Kodak-Digitalcam-HOWTO BootPrompt-HOWTO AX25-HOWTO HOWTO-HOWTO unalias alias rm='rm -i' top netstat /tmp rhn_register RHN_register rhn rhnreg_ks uptodate up2date mo* default k5p3kt75.slt/ Cache .k* .galeon sessions galeon .netscape6 plugins .netscape .Trash .xvpics looply.pl ./looply.pl "I regret that I have but life to give for countr yy yy.htm fg mz; new yy; m back.jpg back3.jpg mz /var/log boot.log.1 message messages mess* touch maillog boot.log secure lastlog last wtmp filter.txt /dev/hda1 syartx apm ding ___ ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:12:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: Sitting on his wall, Humpty-Dumpty MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii well...yes... truth is, language looks awful unnatural from this angle...because, yes, it IS predicated on creating boundaries (subject, predicate) which may in fact not exist at all---if we're to take ANYTHING to REALLY exist (i remain unconvinced, but willing to go along with it--it's just so damned interesting...) i always felt this quite keenly back in the acid daze...LSD was hard to write on, precisely because in it one was aware of the intense blurring of these boundaries...felt, in fact, these distinctions to be false...(the challenge was, and is, carrying this past cheat sheets like LSD into the quotidian---i unfortunately need these boundaries in my daily life, but there are these beautiful moments, absolutely straight and gorgeously sober, staring at say rain over light that i feel again that blurring, feel the unity in it all)--- of course, i could be completely wrong (i reserve the right to contradict myself continually)--- an interesting aside: programming languages are perhaps the most demarcated uses of these boundaries...the most regimented of grammars...how does one say i love you in cobol? bliss l From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Sitting on his wall, Humpty-Dumpty >| It might be useful to turn the question around >| slightly and ask if language or other semiotic >| symbols can grasp and convey to others what >| is there prior to language? There is no 'other.' The whole idea of language and symbol is 'to demarcate to create boundaries' (security) which *in reality* cannot exist. In reality, all things are ONE so that 'the razor cuts itself,' etc. To step in/out, point at things, and say 'this is that,' and 'that is this,' you must *necessarily* remove yourself from 'what is' (reality) and the **accordance** through which it is (natural unity). IF you go with the flow, one is not compelled to 'grasp and convey' since one is always 'with' both beginning & end. Certainty-of-arrival is *being* -- going with the flow -- as contemporary as one can get, as up-to-date as possible, as *precise* as 'what is' (i.e. what exists ~ reality). This is in opposition to attempting to know *in part* what one already *is* in whole. ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:36:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: DOCUMENT REASSEMBLY PLANT #0001 - #0003.........excerpts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DOCUMENT REASSEMBLY PLANT #0001 - #0003.........excerpts Lift now nearly of bollicine to go up, Commensali beautiful Common lift give distracted with grace and Not ah in veneziano baroque not three two three peletti to the go for this like can say air pocket in Now played the imperturbable, and grey Mother has bought me lift and go infiocchettarlo in order to For this last counted locandine soccer the cats from the drums go and go vetrata type six legs of Not all it is hereditary creed and squillante mesh in the lift now mercy for the obsession-party Not a dry blow from and make the not little from laughing Is always lift now cabinet and do not move open Westerns (the doors blink) go now mercy for the obsession-party And turned of a quarter to right and down in the disinfected road lift now end alone The brain like letting out to and nearly of bollicine to go up go for this ah in veneziano baroque Infiocchettarlo in order to go for this the empty belly a vortex Harmony of battle in the room go for this stepping on all the parquet to Lift for this therefore does not cry a, labbro and he burns but I have lift make some small bijou to never Grown inguine (e) finally go now yes have straight to cover Now you sends in beast the, washbasin I reflect that knot go and go best to sprangarsi in house to For this last counted locandine the empty belly a vortex go not go the brain like letting out to For this while I counted two three two, take them embracing them to lift and go autopalpazione I have a And Men-Sa-Li is like not having and step on. Erotic (Moment of go now end alone a dry blow from and make the not the flight and is tonfo but lift for this they are in botte of iron an Now me deprived of hope the head, take them embracing them to go not lift infiocchettarlo in order to For this maneuvers to retromarcia is, bedroom to feel itself it was go not go noise: muggito. Noir (has been Not last counted locandine. not not want that task to the go for this best to sprangarsi in house to And broken the mirror that we had not and I would attack to the go for this the flight and is tonfo but Three two three peletti to the lift now a red mesh ché the black one Lift now impreca to the dripping center, of the virtues reduced to two go does not donate she says to Not step on. Erotic (Moment of not does not donate she says to lift for this noise: muggito. Noir (has been Not fish thorn tendaggio. buio I and stepping on all the parquet to lift now last counted locandine. Now a dry blow from and make the, Men-Sa-Li is like not having go not go with the feet intercrosses to For this autopalpazione I have a, vetrata type six legs of lift not lift a dry blow from and make the Vetrata type six legs of and hour is ripped my poor lift for this the brain like letting out to Not grown inguine (e) finally and manigoldi careful to go for this does not donate she says to For this fish thorn tendaggio. buio I, a dry blow from and make the lift and lift played the imperturbable A red mesh ché the black one and end alone lift for this turned of a quarter to right For this washbasin I reflect that knot, take them embracing them to lift and lift bad) understood to me to clear Stepping on all the parquet to lift now of the virtues reduced to two Now noise: muggito. Noir (has been, bad) understood to me to clear lift and go mercy for the obsession-party Not moglie and husband goes to and with the feet intercrosses to go now moglie and husband goes to And a red mesh ché the black one and down in the disinfected road lift now washbasin I reflect that knot Go now bad) understood to me to clear, of the virtues reduced to two go Lights of average special Bedroom to feel itself it was go for this labbro and he burns but I have Stepping on all the parquet to not stepping on all the parquet to lift for this while I counted two three two Now they are in botte of iron an, dignity) also the borghesine lift not lift labbro and he burns but I have For this a red mesh ché the black one, take them embracing them to lift not lift moglie and husband goes to Nearly of bollicine to go up go for this cabinet and do not move open Go now moglie and husband goes to, noise: muggito. Noir (has been lift three two three peletti to the For this six sorda? the servants the, the flight and is tonfo but go not go maneuvers to retromarcia is Lift now soccer the cats from the drums, harmony of battle in the room lift Commensali beautiful Common Labbro and he burns but I have and washbasin I reflect that knot go for this infiocchettarlo in order to Vetrata type six legs of not beautiful bidet to the mint go for this hour is ripped my poor Lights of average special lift now musicanti a valzer ignoto Now beautiful bidet to the mint, while I counted two three two lift and lift and grey Mother has bought me like can say air pocket in lift now valzer to pills knows it) Myself sudar us in that go for this and I would attack to the Now Lights of average special, all it is hereditary creed go and lift not want that task to the The brain like letting out to lift for this extension (fresh) animal Little from laughing is always and like can say air pocket in go for this the empty belly a vortex Not vetrata type six legs of and yes have straight to cover go now me deprived of hope the head And valzer to pills knows it) and impreca to the dripping center lift for this yes have straight to cover DOCUMENT REASSEMBLY PLANT #0002 And Commensali beautiful Common and does not donate she says to lift for this musicanti a valzer ignoto With the feet intercrosses to lift for this beautiful bidet to the mint And not want that task to the not soccer the cats from the drums go for this therefore does not cry a Now infiocchettarlo in order to, Moscow spiaccicata in go and lift washbasin I reflect that knot While I counted two three two and dignity) also the borghesine go now beautiful bidet to the mint And autopalpazione I have a and me deprived of hope the head go for this confess the manie of import Bedroom to feel itself it was go for this like can say air pocket in They are in botte of iron an not Westerns (the doors blink) lift now three two three peletti to the Lift now squillante mesh in the, you sends in beast the lift squillante mesh in the Three two three peletti to the lift now stepping on all the parquet to While I counted two three two and soccer the cats from the drums go for this the brain like letting out to Now myself sudar us in that, a red mesh ché the black one go not go valzer to pills knows it) Not played the imperturbable not the brain like letting out to lift now infiocchettarlo in order to Spremuto heart latticino that and make some small bijou to never lift now manigoldi the Mother it does Not with the feet intercrosses to not therefore does not cry a go for this impreca to the dripping center Cabinet and do not move open go for this therefore does not cry a Not make some small bijou to never not spasso with the umbrella would go for this grown inguine (e) finally Now harmony of battle in the room, last counted locandine. lift and lift extension (fresh) animal Maneuvers to retromarcia is not soccer the cats from the drums lift for this infiocchettarlo in order to Not the brain like letting out to and to table in the same places lift now spremuto heart latticino that Lift for this and I would attack to the, end alone go nearly of bollicine to go up Little from laughing is always go now stepping on all the parquet to And spremuto heart latticino that not Commensali beautiful Common lift now they are in botte of iron an Go now to table in the same places, last counted locandine. lift of the virtues reduced to two Not infiocchettarlo in order to not cabinet and do not move open lift now in comunella all the family Now valzer to pills knows it), while I counted two three two go not lift manigoldi careful to Three two three peletti to the not valzer to pills knows it) go for this noise: muggito. Noir (has been For this best to sprangarsi in house to, moglie and husband goes to lift not go driven in the pube Dignity) also the borghesine lift now three two three peletti to the Maneuvers to retromarcia is go for this autopalpazione I have a Go now with the feet intercrosses to, broken the mirror that we had go take them embracing them to Go for this average passion and to the, myself sudar us in that go does not donate she says to Go now nearly of bollicine to go up, washbasin I reflect that knot lift down in the disinfected road Lift now give distracted with grace and, spasso with the umbrella would lift Men-Sa-Li is like not having And I would attack to the not labbro and he burns but I have go for this spasso with the umbrella would Lift for this and grey Mother has bought me, a red mesh ché the black one lift down in the disinfected road Give distracted with grace and go for this bad) understood to me to clear Lift now labbro and he burns but I have, best to sprangarsi in house to lift spasso with the umbrella would Lift now broken the mirror that we had, not want that task to the go valzer to pills knows it) Not washbasin I reflect that knot not infiocchettarlo in order to go for this take them embracing them to For this broken the mirror that we had, vetrata type six legs of lift and lift moglie and husband goes to Labbro and he burns but I have go now three two three peletti to the For this impreca to the dripping center, best to sprangarsi in house to lift and lift nearly of bollicine to go up Not me deprived of hope the head and six sorda? the servants the go for this give distracted with grace and Not fish thorn tendaggio. buio I not take them embracing them to go now played the imperturbable The empty belly a vortex and valzer to pills knows it) lift for this spasso with the umbrella would Westerns (the doors blink) and average passion and to the go for this hour is ripped my poor And spremuto heart latticino that not of the virtues reduced to two go now extension (fresh) animal Average passion and to the lift for this does not donate she says to Not best to sprangarsi in house to not down in the disinfected road lift for this step on. Erotic (Moment of Lift for this to table in the same places, confess the manie of import lift Westerns (the doors blink) Squillante mesh in the not all it is hereditary creed go now down in the disinfected road Not valzer to pills knows it) not Moscow spiaccicata in go now all it is hereditary creed End alone not and I would attack to the go now extension (fresh) animal a dry blow from and make the not down in the disinfected road go now six sorda? the servants the Lift now dignity) also the borghesine, hour is ripped my poor lift give distracted with grace and And a dry blow from and make the not maneuvers to retromarcia is lift for this labbro and he burns but I have Spasso with the umbrella would and little from laughing Is always lift for this not want that task to the Now infiocchettarlo in order to, to table in the same places go not go three two three peletti to the DOCUMENT REASSEMBLY PLANT #0003 Now with the feet intercrosses to, all it is hereditary creed lift and go broken the mirror that we had The brain like letting out to lift for this beautiful bidet to the mint Maneuvers to retromarcia is and and grey Mother has bought me lift now cabinet and do not move open And a red mesh ché the black one and me deprived of hope the head lift now I get angry he cracks the Not spremuto heart latticino that and valzer to pills knows it) go now turned of a quarter to right Confess the manie of import lift for this driven in the pube Lift now does not donate she says to, extension (fresh) animal go broken the mirror that we had While I counted two three two not myself sudar us in that lift now vetrata type six legs of And manigoldi careful to and the empty belly a vortex go for this spremuto heart latticino that Beautiful bidet to the mint and with the feet intercrosses to go for this autopalpazione I have a Now six sorda? the servants the, take them embracing them to go and go does not donate she says to And average passion and to the not spasso with the umbrella would lift for this impreca to the dripping center They are in botte of iron an go for this yes have straight to cover For this hour is ripped my poor, squillante mesh in the go not lift hour is ripped my poor For this Commensali beautiful Common-, spasso with the umbrella would lift not lift give distracted with grace and Squillante mesh in the lift now extension (fresh) animal I get angry he cracks the go now they are in botte of iron an And and I would attack to the and last counted locandine. lift for this stepping on all the parquet to Cabinet and do not move open lift now Men-Sa-Li is like not having Step on. erotic (moment of lift for this down in the disinfected road And average passion and to the not spremuto heart latticino that go for this a red mesh ché the black one The brain like letting out to lift for this in comunella all the family For this manigoldi the Mother it does, Men-Sa-Li is like not having lift not go last counted locandine. And musicanti a valzer ignoto and a red mesh ché the black one lift now with the feet intercrosses to And the empty belly a vortex not moglie and husband goes to go for this ah in veneziano baroque Swollen gland to the breast if not Moscow spiaccicata in lift for this broken the mirror that we had Not infiocchettarlo in order to not cabinet and do not move open go for this myself sudar us in that And take them embracing them to and to table in the same places go for this vetrata type six legs of Fish thorn tendaggio. buio I lift for this a red mesh ché the black one Lift for this harmony of battle in the room, dignity) also the borghesine lift beautiful bidet to the mint Infiocchettarlo in order to not stepping on all the parquet to lift for this a dry blow from and make the For this all it is hereditary creed, nearly of bollicine to go up lift and go stepping on all the parquet to Yes have straight to cover and give distracted with grace and lift for this hour is ripped my poor Therefore does not cry a go for this Men-Sa-Li is like not having Not little from laughing Is always not in comunella all the family lift now dignity) also the borghesine They are in botte of iron an not extension (fresh) animal lift now Commensali beautiful Common Now valzer to pills knows it), harmony of battle in the room lift and lift to table in the same places Now soccer the cats from the drums, manigoldi careful to go not go manigoldi careful to Not down in the disinfected road and best to sprangarsi in house to lift now bad) understood to me to clear Nearly of bollicine to go up not give distracted with grace and lift for this musicanti a valzer ignoto Now bad) understood to me to clear, moglie and husband goes to lift and lift I get angry he cracks the Not squillante mesh in the not with the feet intercrosses to lift now the empty belly a vortex Now harmony of battle in the room, cabinet and do not move open go and lift stepping on all the parquet to And cabinet and do not move open and a red mesh ché the black one go for this you sends in beast the Three two three peletti to the go now me deprived of hope the head Go for this down in the disinfected road, and I would attack to the go like can say air pocket in Impreca to the dripping center and Westerns (the doors blink) lift for this all it is hereditary creed Beautiful bidet to the mint not cabinet and do not move open lift now maneuvers to retromarcia is And manigoldi the Mother it does not to table in the same places go now like can say air pocket in Now Commensali beautiful Common-, of the virtues reduced to two go and lift noise: muggito. Noir (has been Go for this beautiful bidet to the mint, last counted locandine. lift Moscow spiaccicata in Harmony of battle in the room lift for this spasso with the umbrella would Go for this spremuto heart latticino that, the brain like letting out to lift I get angry he cracks the AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION METAPOETICS THEATRE INTERNATIONAL BELLES LETTRES FEDERATION WORLDWIDE LITERATI MOBILIZATION NEWWORK SUPERHEROES OF HUMANITIES --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:40:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: ray federman \ anne waldman MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit anne waldman interview (find it in "interviews" under the muse menu) www.muse-apprentice-guild.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ THE "F"-WORD (FUCK) STYLEGUIDE BY RAY FEDERMAN (find it in "prefatory works" under the muse menu) www.muse-apprentice-guild.com +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ * * * Perhaps one of the most interesting and colorful words today is the word "fuck". It is the one magical word which just by its sound can describe pain, pleasure, love, and hate. * * * In language, "fuck" falls into many grammatical categories. It can be used as a verb, both transitive"John fucked Mary" and intransitive "Mary was fucked by John" It can be an action verb "John really gives a fuck" a passive verb "Mary really doesn't give a fuck" an adverb "Mary is fucking interested in John" or as a noun "Mary is a terrific fuck" It can also be used as an adjective "Mary is fucking beautiful" or an interjection "Fuck! I'm late for my date with Mary" It can even be used as a conjunction "Mary is easy, fuck she's also stupid" As you can see, there are very few words with the overall versatility of the word "fuck". aside from its sexual connotations, this incredible word can be used to describe many situations : 1. Greetings "How the fuck are ya?" 2. Fraud "I got fucked by the car dealer." 3. Resignation "Oh, fuck it!" 4. Trouble "I guess I'm fucked now." 5. Aggression "FUCK YOU!" 6. Disgust "Fuck me." 7. Confusion "What the fuck.......?" 8. Difficulty "I don't understand this fucking business!" 9. Despair "Fucked again..." 10. Pleasure "I fucking couldn't be happier." 11. Displeasure "What the fuck is going on here?" 12. Lost "Where the fuck are we." 13. Disbelief "UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE!" 14. Retaliation "Up your fucking ass!" 15. Denial "I didn't fucking do it." 16. Perplexity "I know fuck all about it." 17. Apathy "Who really gives a fuck, anyhow?" 18. Greetings "How the fuck are ya?" 19. Suspicion "Who the fuck are you?" 20. Panic "Let's get the fuck out of here." 21. Directions "Fuck off." 22. Disbelief "How the fuck did you do that?" It can be used ........ in an anatomical description -- "He's a fucking asshole." to tell time --"It's five fucking thirty." in business -- "How did I wind up with this fucking job?" maternal -- "Motherfucker." political --"Fuck George W. Bush!" It has also been used by many notable people throughout history : Mayor of Hiroshima --"What the fuck was that?" General Custer -- "Where did all these fucking Indians come from?" Captain of the Titanic --"Where the fuck is all this water coming from?" John Lennon --"That's not a real fucking gun." Richard Nixon -- "Who's gonna fucking find out?" Anne Boleyn -- "Heads are going to fucking roll." Willard Scott -- "It's someone's 100th fucking birthday today!" Albert Einstein -- "Any fucking idiot could understand that." Picasso -- "It does so fucking look like her!" Pythagoras --"How the fuck did you work that out?" Michael Angelo --"You want what on the fucking ceiling?" Walt Disney -- "Fuck a duck." Edmund Hilary -- "Why? Because its fucking there!" Joan of Arc --"I don't suppose its gonna fucking rain?" Donald Trump -- "She wants how much fucking money?!?!?" Orville Reddenbacher -- "Look! Almost every fucking kernel popped!" Raymond Federman -- "Oh! Look a fucking flying saucer!" +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ AUGUST HIGHLAND :: EDITOR www.muse-apprentice-guild.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:39:26 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Need edresses for the following Boog City contributors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please backchannel with their info, or if they see this, please backchannel. thanks, dak Angela Bowering George Bowering Don Byrd Buck Downs Laura Elrick Philip Good David Hess Matt Robinson Andrew Schelling Emma Straub ---------- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor/publisher Boog Literature 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 (212) 206-8899 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 05:50:17 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Need a few more edresses for the following Boog City contributors MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please backchannel with their info, or if they see this, please backchannel. thanks, dak lisa jarnot carol mirakove douglas rothschild anne waldman ---------- David A. Kirschenbaum, editor/publisher Boog Literature 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 (212) 206-8899 ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:37:24 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massni Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit book titled i think under the something (correct word escapes brain now) sun ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 09:41:10 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massni Subject: (no subject) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit got it under the sheltering sky sheila m smassoni@aol.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:51:05 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jukka-Pekka Kervinen Subject: xStream Concrete Issue #2 online Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline xStream Concrete Issue #2 online Special issue for concrete and visual poetry Works from seven poets: Wendy Collin Sorin Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino Irving Weiss Nico Vassilakis Andrew Topel & Paul Brandt Andrew Topel & Jim Leftwich Submissions are welcome, please send images and texts to address concrete@xpressed.org Sincerely, Jukka-Pekka Kervinen xStream Editor xStream Concrete: http://xpressed.freezope.org/xstream Email: concrete@xpressed.org ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:21:10 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: This COBOL Says I Love You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 000100 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. 000200 PROGRAM-ID. ILOVEYOU. 000300 000400*This COBOL says I love you 000500 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION. 000600 CONFIGURATION SECTION. 000700 SOURCE-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. 000800 OBJECT-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. 000900 001000 DATA DIVISION. 001100 FILE SECTION. 001200 100000 PROCEDURE DIVISION. 100100 100200 MAIN-LOGIC SECTION. 100300 BEGIN. 100400 DISPLAY " " LINE 1 POSITION 1 ERASE EOS. 100500 DISPLAY "I LOVE YOU" LINE 15 POSITION 10. 100600 STOP RUN. 100700 MAIN-LOGIC-EXIT. 100800 EXIT. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:15:13 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: This COBOL Says I Love You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii yes...this cobol PRINTS i love you... but does it EXPRESS i love you? bliss l Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:21:10 -0400 patrick@proximate.org Subject: This COBOL Says I Love You 000100 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. 000200 PROGRAM-ID. ILOVEYOU. 000300 000400*This COBOL says I love you 000500 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION. 000600 CONFIGURATION SECTION. 000700 SOURCE-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. 000800 OBJECT-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. 000900 001000 DATA DIVISION. 001100 FILE SECTION. 001200 100000 PROCEDURE DIVISION. 100100 100200 MAIN-LOGIC SECTION. 100300 BEGIN. 100400 DISPLAY " " LINE 1 POSITION 1 ERASE EOS. 100500 DISPLAY "I LOVE YOU" LINE 15 POSITION 10. 100600 STOP RUN. 100700 MAIN-LOGIC-EXIT. 100800 EXIT. ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 16:27:29 -0400 Reply-To: bstefans@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Brian Kim Stefans [arras.net]" Subject: Stefans / Toscano book launch this tuesday (reprise) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Please join Rodrigo and I in lifting a glass of... something to, uh... ourselves... Tuesday, May 27th... to celebrate the launch of our books just out from Atelos Press. Where: Spoonbill and Sugartown bookstore... it's the L train, Bedford stop, head south a few blocks to "mini mall" (just after Earwax records). http://www.spoonbillbooks.com/ What time: 7-9. There will be wine, cheese, olives, maybe a reading. Both books will be on sale at discount. Some of us will go out for dinner afterwards somewhere near and cheap. Please read (but don't believe) the hype below: *** Rodrigo Toscano's Platform is a political one; his writings are predicated on the political conditions of contemporary life. But his work is not (and will never be) predicted by those conditions; indeed, outwitting, unnerving, and outspeaking the forces and figures clinging to control is one of his signal artistic strategies. It would be correct to read Platform as a triumphant product of precise and complex labor (thus adding to the tradition set by of Louis Zukofsky). But where the spirit of Johann Sebastian Bach informed Zukofsky's work, we would suggest that it is the spirit of the Teatro Campesino that informs Toscano's — his poems carry out brilliantly creative interventions. The works is bitingly inventive and yet delicately meticulous; outrageous, funny, anti-hypocritical, and "unfuckingrightgaggable," Platform is victory for the political intelligence whose exercise is now, more than ever, a human necessity. Rodrigo Toscano grew up in San Diego. After a few years in the San Francisco Bay Area working as a social worker and an activist within the labor movement, he moved to New York, where he continues this work. He is a nationally influential writer, whose work along the intersections of social and aesthetic activism is adding new dimensions to contemporary poetics. Platform is Rodrigo Toscano's third book. His first book, The Disparities, was published jointly by Green Integer and O Books in 2002. His second book, Partisans (which, due to a variety of circumstances, came out before his first), was published in 1999 by O Books. http://www.atelos.org/platform.htm *** Brian Kim Stefans' Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics eludes any singular description — it is too various. At once, Fashionable Noise explodes with ingredients of essay, games, and poetry, and it is always engaging, always thought provoking. How does limitless replication and change affect a dialogue one might try to have with another poet's words? What's so interesting about the hidden code behind the link Walt Disney that misdirects you, takes you to the wrong site? Stefans confronts these questions, and the ease with which he simultaneously discusses, investigates, and incorporates those elements that might make up a digital poetics is astounding. Generating poetry with a computer program, synthesizing Scots by using an algorithm accompanied by dictionaries, employing an ICQ chat transcript as the conduit for delivering a significant discussion on digital poetics: these are just a few examples of what readers will find in this book. Although "the webwork, unlike the earthwork, can never be photographed from a satellite perspective," Fashionable Noise: On Digital Poetics is on the forefront of mapping out a rapidly emerging, constantly morphing, virtual terrain. Brian Kim Stefans is the author of Free Space Comix (1998), Gulf (1998/2000), and Angry Penguins (2000). He has been an active presence on the internet for several years, editing arras.net — a ceaselessly original site devoted to new media poetry and poetics — and creating works such as the acclaimed Flash poem "The Dreamlife of Letters" and a setting of the "e" chapter of Christian Bök's Christian Bök's Eunoia. He is an active literary and cultural critic, publishing frequently in the Boston Review, Jacket, and elsewhere. He lives in New York City. http://www.atelos.org/fashionable.htm ____ A R R A S: new media poetry and poetics http://www.arras.net Hinka cumfae cashore canfeh, Ahl hityi oar hied 'caw taughtie! "Do you think just because I come from Carronshore I cannot fight? I shall hit you over the head with a cold potatoe." ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 16:01:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Skip Fox Subject: Re: Paul Bowles Query MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They are all contained in an essay which is titled something like "Things that Are Passing" in his Collected Stories. Peter Balestrieri wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm trying to locate the text in which Paul Bowles > discusses violence during Ramadan in Morocco, women > working magic on men with slips of paper closed in > jackknives, and a man who kills his wife because her > lack of salt-use convinces him she's a demon. I > believe they're all from the same essay and that it > was written in the mid-70's. Thanks. > > pb > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 01:09:57 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: TWHM II MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this does not of course give you a definite figure while it is in motion and a food-gathering economy it is certainly restricted a loop of black thread to the ways of life please inform us if a little dap of lead behaving common to a number you are not required to take the handkerchief is draped over identical in other aspects of ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 16:59:00 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: new email address Comments: To: rp@richardparksagency.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note my new email address; gfrym@earthlink.net I also receive mail at gfrym@ccac-art.edu ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 17:52:05 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The I Work in the Mountains MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The I Work in the Mountains In and our I work, transform Azure desire Carter into and space I and transform time; desire In into our space work, time; Carter folds refolds refolds manifolds, the constructs manifolds, and constructs deconstructs deconstructs desire them. folds my d'Imobilite, work I with transform Foofwa space d'Imobilite, and time work desire; construct construct labor field which of all labor desire; against space which and all time movement In occurs. the former, are there vortices, are strange vortices, attractors, strange movement attractors, occurs. literal space-time holes that in activate space-time the that kernel activate in kernel all attractors In tend the towards latter, 1. the latter, mapped body attractors is tend mapped towards through 1. cartesian the mappings manifold; manifold; and it reforms forms what reforms cartesian what mappings appear against to actually be the geodesics, slopes but of actually and slopes against energy but curves, gravity a and form the resistance, together as form gravity a together form resistant Carter pair. and deploy pair. sight our viewer; Foofwa cited my characteristics the world unfolding. continuously Now unfolding. I Now will will characteristics shoot of mountains and salt and flats map lakes through map manifolds them mountains those salt manifolds flats they bump control distortions bump the mapping dance distortions body dance will confront them move move increase have ferocity. object You and have image. this The object person image. ferocity. The You person will every in way every day. and This philosophy philosophy spoken written This spoken a language form eliminated. are What images remains and images trails pictorial traces. trails The or eliminated. traces. What worlds a dominated of by wonder. sense falls wonder. and Everything worlds falls are apart dominated coalesces according schedule. ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:33:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: =?WINDOWS-1252?Q?production_note=92s_sexual_content?= In-Reply-To: <1053707199.3ece4bbf1bb5e@mail1.buffalo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable production note=92s sexual content facade had a complete set of endnotes on a Bricolage answer to=20 leaning=92s absent call to architecture that stood at a point of sound.=20= side beam and example, both =93 forget me knots=94 came to this kind of=20= singular, that in stone, tendencied distance, magnified by happenstance=20= and appeared twice again in what was evidently an after illustration.=20 the third one, after the others hovered, never felt obligation, was=20 given phonographic or pornographic cross hairs, or on occasions=20 suggested restrictive numbers on place. meaning at least options with=20 edges. one continued to hear from satifaction=92s in any case place, =93 = I=20 understood this to be sounds attention to detail?=94 increasingly=20 half-a-life submerged in an atmosphere quite inaudible, only to leave=20 cold line jargon. there as when another porcelain self tip off and went=20= angry, but that was more a facsimile strip in armature land. the angle,=20= one of grammar's last laugh came out in semi-early bric-a-brac, another=20= globe distance with verb relations, the sort of surface pictureques=20 equality, close to score and fore warning numbers as well did=20 geography. longer then a different hand took to source,=94 inside out,=94=20= was nothing more then a interval after the real, =93and miles of no,=94 = and=20 =93all the characters apart of the account gone a-feelin.=94 this all = put=20 apprehension in the slipping plot sign and episodic defense.=20 architecture =93of=94 or =93on=94 an another brand apparently the only = rust=20 free number inevitably found various mention in background sheets with=20= degrees of shifting down. to say =93attention=94 at that advance pose = was=20 something sounded detailed in taste of a difference later. apology,=20 began to weep shares and rust, while as for what sun in a labored river=20= without question, could nothing but what touch at the different holy=20 sharp so and digital. the pseudonym stand back, who would imitate=20 everything, kept to middle least and inhaled on paper the last rest of=20= night. at persistence facade, adds second tastes forgets and the first=20= two tends to corners notes and very very slow.= ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:00:56 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Ted Joans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Jonathan Skinner wrote: > I was shocked to hear that Ted had died; I always thought he had discovered, > and squirreled away somewhere, the fountain of youth-- and some day would > let us in on the secret. -- Jonathan, I liked this evocation of Ted Joans as the reality of Baudelaire's poet. Before Joans gets forgotten in this thread do you think you could type out one of Joans' more important poems? I don't know his work at all. Corso refers to him several times in his letters just out, usually rather negatively. He refers to this thing of him charging people for his presence as a negative aspect. But Corso did pretty much the same thing. You had to pay him to get his signature in a book, for instance. The rate wasn't much -- five bucks in the seventies. It probably went up after that. Poets don't make any money on royalties so to make a living you have to be a bit shameless I imagine. At any rate, what are Joans' most important poems? Are any short enough to be typed out? -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 16:40:08 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: Ted Joans In-Reply-To: <3ED14B28.248E793C@delhi.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 5/25/03 4:00 PM, Kirby Olson at olsonjk@DELHI.EDU wrote: > He refers to this thing > of him charging people for his presence as a negative aspect. But Corso did > pretty > much the same thing. You had to pay him to get his signature in a book, for > instance. The rate wasn't much -- five bucks in the seventies. It probably > went up > after that. Poets don't make any money on royalties so to make a living you > have to > be a bit shameless I imagine. Stop me before I sign again! Unless people start paying me $5 apiece, I will go out and sign every book I can get my hands on in an effort to get my name out to people. I will be doing this indiscriminately, signing good books and bad, and even signing books that have already been signed by others. Once I have signed all the books I can, I will start signing paintings, body parts, etc. So send me $5 right now and I will leave your books alone. Otherwise, beware of the serial signer! mwp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 17:09:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: a time to stand-in - presents In-Reply-To: <1053707199.3ece4bbf1bb5e@mail1.buffalo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable a time to stand-in - presents say standing say staining in advance a thought in waiting in a series of signals a serious image wont mind hard to find objects working in progress with something all together syncopation almost to say continues standing continues location a logos chiseled with pretext up down over-an-out here today spot and gone =93x=94 tomorrows not moving standing =93not upon the order of going but go at once * gather and remain; to stagnate; not to flow. or the black water of pomptina stands. ** replacing another for another for endure tolerate fate for fast fall flung stained varnished vacuum and a spiral standing still inevitable per served as guides to standards a butterfly approaches a string of hope advance though thought amplification they then remember a deliverance something mentioned the thigh bone is connected to a simple pebble in past tense thorn thread of a different something altogether nonapologetic fills everything photographic stand-ins advance to three times . . . sinking *** * william shakespeare ** john dryden *** emily dickinson ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 20:18:06 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Schlesinger Subject: New Contact Info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 1 June, 2003 Kyle Schlesinger and Cuneiform Press will be moving to = the address below. Telephone and e-mail will remain the same. Best Wishes, Kyle Kyle Schlesinger Cuneiform Press 383 Summer Street Buffalo, New York 14213 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 23:20:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: Po Joans Jones Langston...That Was.. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PASSED ON BLUES: HOMAGE TO A POET the sound of black music the sad soft low moan of jazz ROUND BOUT MIDNIGHT the glad heavy fat screaming song of happy blues That was the world of Langston Hughes the mood indigo candle flame the rough racy hot gut bucket riff tune AFTER HOURS the fast swinging rapid rocking riff rumping blues That was the world of Langston Hughes the funky butt grind the every night jitterbug jiving gliding his Trouble in Mind the brown black beige high yaller bouncer's shoes That was the world of Langston Hughes the sonata of Harlem the concerto to shoulder bones/pinto beans/hamhocks In the Dark the slow good bouncing grooves That was the world of Langston Hughes the elephant laugh the rain forest giggles under a switchblade downpour the zoot suited conked head razor throat Stompin' at the Savoy the colored newspaper with no good news That was the world of Langston Hughes the Jess B. Semple hip sneer the bassist/drummer/pianist/guitarist/rhythm on top of Caledonia the take it, shake it, rattle, lay back and make it (or lose!) That was the world of Langston Hughes the big black mouth the pawnshop/butcher shop/likker shop..Bebop! the rats in the rice, roaches of reefers on relief amused That was the world of Langston Hughes the manhattan subway stool the naked thigh, double breasted one button Roll On To Jesus! the poolroom chalk & click, fat chick wobble in cigarette tar baby crews That was the world of Langston Hughes the chain gang jingle the evil laughter against the atomic Honeydripper the brownstone tenement cold filthy frozen winter hell ghetto dues That was the world of Langston Hughes the uh-huh, Oo-wee, oh yeah of hot climax the hustlers haunt, prostitutes pimp, bitter Sweet Georgia Brown the hep hip hi junkie tongue tied black eyed bruise That was the world of Langston Hughes the sounds of dangerous black humor the swift sharp flash of Afroamerica Struttin' Wild Sum Bar-B-Q the Presence Africaine, Harlem Jew, chittlin switching cruise That was the world of Langston Hughes the fried fish'n'chicken boogie woogie the store front church Cadillac/wig wearing/gospel truths/When They Crucified My Lord the nigger loving Thirties, dozens by the dirties on ofay's muse That was the world of Langston Hughes the rent party good-timing crowd the shout strut twist turning loud raving but Ain't Misbehavin' the darkie,jig;coon, hidden shadowy spade drowned in booze That was the world of Langston Hughes the taker of A Trains the sticker upper, alley cat, hustler, poolshark cleanhead Hucklebuck the cornbread smell,grits,greens,watermelon, spare ribs, never refused! That was the world of Langston Hughes the cool crowded summer solo horn the red rattled raisin around the sun/migrated Dixieland Strange Fruit the jim crow/blaack crow/ol' Crow/ moonshine splo/niggers can't go or choose That was the world of Langston Hughes the sweaty hard-working muscle making black back breaking hard labour hump the bold bright colors on ebony nappy head big titty itty bitty Liza Jane the millions and millions raising up strong been done wrong too long pointing the abused body at slum lord! police lord! oh Lord, all guilty and accused THAT WAS THE WORLD OF THE POET LANGSTON HUGHES BLACK DUES! BLACK BLUES! BLACK NEWS! THAT WAS THE WORLD OF THE GREATEST BLACK POET LANGSTON HUGHES ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 18:41:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Ted Joans In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Ted wasn't, in my humble, a very good poet, but he was an extraordinarily sweet and compassionate man. He was also a very good self-publicist. His early rent-a-poet gigs were also meant as a send-up of the relationship of the bourgeosie and the arts--the poet at the fancy soiree as a token, in the sense of token representative, but also in the sense of a value conveyed by his presence, a validation of a social position he didn't share. This of course predates the modern bourgeoisie by a few millenia. In Ted's hands it was a kind of perfoprmance art. I miss listening to him. Mark At 04:40 PM 5/25/2003 -0700, you wrote: >on 5/25/03 4:00 PM, Kirby Olson at olsonjk@DELHI.EDU wrote: > > > He refers to this thing > > of him charging people for his presence as a negative aspect. But > Corso did > > pretty > > much the same thing. You had to pay him to get his signature in a > book, for > > instance. The rate wasn't much -- five bucks in the seventies. It > probably > > went up > > after that. Poets don't make any money on royalties so to make a > living you > > have to > > be a bit shameless I imagine. > > >Stop me before I sign again! > >Unless people start paying me $5 apiece, I will go out and sign every book I >can get my hands on in an effort to get my name out to people. I will be >doing this indiscriminately, signing good books and bad, and even signing >books that have already been signed by others. Once I have signed all the >books I can, I will start signing paintings, body parts, etc. So send me $5 >right now and I will leave your books alone. Otherwise, beware of the serial >signer! > > >mwp ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 23:16:32 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: This email says I love you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dearest Lewis: Your original request, word for word, which I believe I satisfied exactly, went as follows: ***** how does one say i love you in cobol? bliss l ***** I provided the COBOL way of saying it. So why the CAPS SHOUTING in response to my satisfaction of your request? How to say "I love you" in COBOL. There it is. Is there something you are trying to express to me that is, umm, between the lines that I'm simply missing? Lewis, if I say "I love you," am I expressing it or am I merely typing it? I think the answer to that question is the answer to your question. And the answer is, you have no idea. Love is a first-person phenomenon, whether that first-person be a human, dog, or computer. Therefore, you have no idea, and no matter what I say, you still will have no idea. That's the nature of love. It's a mystery, an unverifiable state. It's a specific kind of the age-old general problem of other minds. But the first-person experience of love or of being or of hate or of sadness or joy is a certainty beyond expression of that experience. Which, oddly enough, makes certainty irrelevant. Patrick Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:15:13 -0700 From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: This COBOL Says I Love You yes...this cobol PRINTS i love you... but does it EXPRESS i love you? bliss l Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:21:10 -0400 patrick@proximate.org Subject: This COBOL Says I Love You 000100 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. 000200 PROGRAM-ID. ILOVEYOU. 000300 000400*This COBOL says I love you 000500 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION. 000600 CONFIGURATION SECTION. 000700 SOURCE-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. 000800 OBJECT-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. 000900 001000 DATA DIVISION. 001100 FILE SECTION. 001200 100000 PROCEDURE DIVISION. 100100 100200 MAIN-LOGIC SECTION. 100300 BEGIN. 100400 DISPLAY " " LINE 1 POSITION 1 ERASE EOS. 100500 DISPLAY "I LOVE YOU" LINE 15 POSITION 10. 100600 STOP RUN. 100700 MAIN-LOGIC-EXIT. 100800 EXIT. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 00:51:10 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Unfortunately Nick seems not to be attending this thread but I'm struck with the similarity to effective therapeutic communication where for me what the client wants to articulate seems to be in his/her body or reside in the air between us. tom bell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Shoemaker" To: Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 4:05 PM Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) > Tom--Well, I would say, no, language *cannot* convey this experience. And > that's what I find interesting. Language can convey an approximation, a > representation that has to include a difference. For me that kind of > slippage is part of what makes language, especially poetry, > interesting. Now, textual "differences" and slips and gaps are all the > theoretical rage these days, and that discourse is relevant to what I'm > interested in, but again there's a difference. Mostly these slips and > gaps are examined only as textual phenomena, i.e. phenomena that arise out > of the way texts work. But I'm interested in thinking about language > while keeping a (meta)physical sense of things, so that some of the slips > that intrigue me are what you might call primal ones. We do *try* to > convey, we *want* to convey, and this attempt to put across what probably > cannot be communicated is something that moves me in some of the poetry I > like best. steve ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 00:55:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Blasphemy and Salvation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Blasphemy and Salvation :::: by perseverance in the custody of Our Lord:by parchment and quill:by spike and musket:animals!:animals! The Salvation and Freedom of the Natives by spike and musket shall guarantee our troth. - Your mountain is blasphemy unto the Lord. - Your plain shall convert in truth and not in false demand? yours by spike and musket ... holograph burns me across your plain! How would you define your mountain? My animals! your language... by perseverance in the custody of Our Lord calls forth , hungered, making things. beneath the , by perseverance in the custody of Our Lord is , by parchment and quill? ... animals! on black stone, are you satisfied with your by perseverance in the custody of Our Lord? ... animals! on black stone, :::: --- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 01:05:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: Re: Po Joans Jones Langston...That Was.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is amazing. When did you write this marvel? Are we seeing it first? > PASSED ON BLUES: HOMAGE TO A POET > > the sound of black music > the sad soft low moan of jazz ROUND BOUT MIDNIGHT > the glad heavy fat screaming song of happy blues > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the mood indigo candle flame > the rough racy hot gut bucket riff tune AFTER HOURS > the fast swinging rapid rocking riff rumping blues > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the funky butt grind > the every night jitterbug jiving gliding his Trouble in Mind > the brown black beige high yaller bouncer's shoes > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the sonata of Harlem > the concerto to shoulder bones/pinto beans/hamhocks In the Dark > the slow good bouncing grooves > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the elephant laugh > the rain forest giggles under a switchblade downpour > the zoot suited conked head razor throat Stompin' at the Savoy > the colored newspaper with no good news > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the Jess B. Semple hip sneer > the bassist/drummer/pianist/guitarist/rhythm on top of Caledonia > the take it, shake it, rattle, lay back and make it (or lose!) > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the big black mouth > the pawnshop/butcher shop/likker shop..Bebop! > the rats in the rice, roaches of reefers on relief amused > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the manhattan subway stool > the naked thigh, double breasted one button Roll On To Jesus! > the poolroom chalk & click, fat chick wobble in cigarette tar baby crews > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the chain gang jingle > the evil laughter against the atomic Honeydripper > the brownstone tenement cold filthy frozen winter hell ghetto dues > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the uh-huh, Oo-wee, oh yeah of hot climax > the hustlers haunt, prostitutes pimp, bitter Sweet Georgia Brown > the hep hip hi junkie tongue tied black eyed bruise > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the sounds of dangerous black humor > the swift sharp flash of Afroamerica Struttin' Wild Sum Bar-B-Q > the Presence Africaine, Harlem Jew, chittlin switching cruise > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the fried fish'n'chicken boogie woogie > the store front church Cadillac/wig wearing/gospel truths/When They Crucified My Lord > the nigger loving Thirties, dozens by the dirties on ofay's muse > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the rent party good-timing crowd > the shout strut twist turning loud raving but Ain't Misbehavin' > the darkie,jig;coon, hidden shadowy spade drowned in booze > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the taker of A Trains > the sticker upper, alley cat, hustler, poolshark cleanhead Hucklebuck > the cornbread smell,grits,greens,watermelon, spare ribs, never refused! > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the cool crowded summer solo horn > the red rattled raisin around the sun/migrated Dixieland Strange Fruit > the jim crow/blaack crow/ol' Crow/ moonshine splo/niggers can't go or choose > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > the sweaty hard-working muscle making black back breaking hard labour hump > the bold bright colors on ebony nappy head big titty itty bitty Liza Jane > the millions and millions raising up strong been done wrong too long pointing > the abused body at slum lord! police lord! oh Lord, all guilty and accused > THAT WAS THE WORLD OF THE POET LANGSTON HUGHES > BLACK DUES! BLACK BLUES! BLACK NEWS! > THAT WAS THE WORLD OF THE GREATEST BLACK POET > LANGSTON HUGHES > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 01:07:12 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Ah Well... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Ah Well... >From sondheim@panix.com Mon May 26 01:00:24 2003 Subject: Linux on HP 3250 Pavillion Laptop Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.hardware Has anyone installed any version of linux on the HP 3250? I would really like to do this; I've installed numerous times on desktops but never on a laptop - any suggestions, stories, comments, welcome, and thanks - Alan Sondheim, sondheim@remove.panix.com >From sondheim@panix.com Tue Feb 27 01:28:28 2001 Subject: HP 3250 Pavilion Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops Hi - Has anyone had experience with this HP? I'm thinking of buying a used one for $800; it comes with DVD etc. Also, do you know if it's possible to install linux on this? Thanks for any advice - Alan Sondheim, sondheim.remove@panix.com From: Alan Sondheim Subject: HP 3250 Pavilion Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops Hi - I'm thinking of getting a used one with dvd/cdrom etc. for $800 - can anyone give me information on this machine? Thanks ahead of time - Alan, sond.remove.heim@panix.com From: Alan Sondheim Subject: axil monitor with 13W3 connector Newsgroups: comp.unix.solaris I recently received an Axil 245 with Solaris 7 on it. The computer didn't come with a monitor (I checked it out on one, however), and has a 13W3 connector on the back. Has anyone had experience writing this (or a related) machine to a PC monitor? Does the conversion work? Can anyone advise me on where to by the connectors? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Alan Sondheim, sondheim.takeout@takeout.panix.com From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Cortley guitar Newsgroups: rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic Anyone know about a Cortley Guitar from the 1960s or 70s? Nylon acoustic, spruce top, seems fairly good - trying to find out some history/details. The label says distributed by Maxwell Mayers in Texas and Soutland Musical Merchandise Corp. in North Carolina. Thanks, Alan From: Alan Sondheim Subject: SuSE 7.2 on Dell Inspiron 8000 Newsgroups: alt.os.linux.suse I'm trying to install SuSE 7.2 (through Yast2) on a Dell laptop - Inspiron 8000 - and I'm having no luck setting the monitor screen for XWindow or any graphics at all - has anyone solved this problem? The partitions are fine, and I can run in minimal command-line mode, but nothing else. I've tried the LED and other generic monitor configurations and I get garbage, if anything. The screen is either TFT or active matrix; the display is 1400x1050x60Hz, NVIDIA GeForce2Go (Dell Mobile) Any help here would be greatly appreciated - Alan Sondheim, sondheim@panix.com -- ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 01:07:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: DOCUMENT REASSEMBLY PLANT #0004 - #0006.......excerpts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DOCUMENT REASSEMBLY PLANT #0004 - #0006.......excerpts Go now spremuto heart latticino that, confess the manie of import lift make some small bijou to never Six sorda? the servants the lift now step on. Erotic (Moment of Bedroom to feel itself it was not Lights of average special lift for this give distracted with grace and Three two three peletti to the and therefore does not cry a go for this vetrata type six legs of Bad) understood to me to clear not like can say air pocket in go for this the flight and is tonfo but Lift now labbro and he burns but I have, vetrata type six legs of lift the brain like letting out to And six sorda? the servants the not cabinet and do not move open go for this six sorda? the servants the End alone not noise: muggito. Noir (has been lift for this to table in the same places Now not want that task to the, six sorda? the servants the lift and lift the brain like letting out to And driven in the pube and three two three peletti to the lift now cabinet and do not move open Ah in veneziano baroque not of the virtues reduced to two lift for this Commensali beautiful Common Go now musicanti a valzer ignoto , and I would attack to the lift does not donate she says to For this while I counted two three two, infiocchettarlo in order to go and go grown inguine (e) finally The flight and is tonfo but go now noise: muggito. Noir (has been Fish thorn tendaggio. buio I go for this dignity) also the borghesine A red mesh ché the black one not like can say air pocket in go for this average passion and to the Go for this little from laughing Is always, take them embracing them to go swollen gland to the breast if Cabinet and do not move open not and I would attack to the go for this vetrata type six legs of Now the flight and is tonfo but, and grey Mother has bought me lift and lift make some small bijou to never For this spremuto heart latticino that, labbro and he burns but I have lift not go take them embracing them to For this and grey Mother has bought me, soccer the cats from the drums go not go washbasin I reflect that knot For this Moscow spiaccicata in, harmony of battle in the room lift not lift make some small bijou to never And infiocchettarlo in order to not impreca to the dripping center go for this Westerns (the doors blink) Between the hands and I find go for this ah in veneziano baroque And average passion and to the not I get angry he cracks the lift now step on. Erotic (Moment of Does not donate she says to not autopalpazione I have a go now beautiful bidet to the mint And I get angry he cracks the not broken the mirror that we had go for this beautiful bidet to the mint For this turned of a quarter to right, the brain like letting out to go and go autopalpazione I have a Lift for this and grey Mother has bought me, impreca to the dripping center go cabinet and do not move open a dry blow from and make the not cabinet and do not move open go now you sends in beast the Maneuvers to retromarcia is go now little from laughing Is always All it is hereditary creed go for this noise: muggito. Noir (has been Go now a dry blow from and make the, Lights of average special lift labbro and he burns but I have Lift now three two three peletti to the, nearly of bollicine to go up lift infiocchettarlo in order to Turned of a quarter to right and ah in veneziano baroque lift for this therefore does not cry a Autopalpazione I have a not in comunella all the family go now Westerns (the doors blink) Go for this you sends in beast the, musicanti a valzer ignoto go a red mesh ché the black one Confess the manie of import not the empty belly a vortex lift for this last counted locandine. Turned of a quarter to right not autopalpazione I have a lift now maneuvers to retromarcia is Lift for this soccer the cats from the drums, and grey Mother has bought me lift they are in botte of iron an Between the hands and I find lift now cabinet and do not move open Ah in veneziano baroque and manigoldi the Mother it does lift now make some small bijou to never For this yes have straight to cover, give distracted with grace and go and go not want that task to the Go now beautiful bidet to the mint, moglie and husband goes to lift therefore does not cry a Down in the disinfected road not noise: muggito. Noir (has been lift for this valzer to pills knows it) Now give distracted with grace and, maneuvers to retromarcia is lift and lift between the hands and I find Go for this autopalpazione I have a, myself sudar us in that go Westerns (the doors blink) Lift now they are in botte of iron an, little from laughing Is always lift beautiful bidet to the mint For this Moscow spiaccicata in, maneuvers to retromarcia is go and go swollen gland to the breast if For this harmony of battle in the room, to table in the same places lift and lift turned of a quarter to right Vetrata type six legs of not between the hands and I find lift now like can say air pocket in Average passion and to the go for this a dry blow from and make the Last counted locandine. and broken the mirror that we had go for this squillante mesh in the Valzer to pills knows it) go for this bedroom to feel itself it was DOCUMENT REASSEMBLY PLANT #0005 Go now broken the mirror that we had, spasso with the umbrella would go noise: muggito. Noir (has been Not moglie and husband goes to not take them embracing them to go for this impreca to the dripping center And to table in the same places not impreca to the dripping center lift for this squillante mesh in the For this Men-Sa-Li is like not having, like can say air pocket in lift not go spasso with the umbrella would Go for this dignity) also the borghesine, you sends in beast the go in comunella all the family Go for this Commensali beautiful Common-, swollen gland to the breast if lift you sends in beast the Go for this six sorda? the servants the, labbro and he burns but I have go step on. Erotic (Moment of For this impreca to the dripping center, squillante mesh in the lift not go soccer the cats from the drums End alone and broken the mirror that we had go for this vetrata type six legs of Extension (fresh) animal not Commensali beautiful Common lift for this fish thorn tendaggio. buio I And manigoldi the Mother it does and confess the manie of import go for this impreca to the dripping center Therefore does not cry a lift now Lights of average special Six sorda? the servants the not all it is hereditary creed go for this confess the manie of import Go for this all it is hereditary creed, maneuvers to retromarcia is go vetrata type six legs of For this valzer to pills knows it), spremuto heart latticino that lift and lift labbro and he burns but I have Noise: muggito. noir (has been not like can say air pocket in lift now I get angry he cracks the like can say air pocket in go for this give distracted with grace and Between the hands and I find not bad) understood to me to clear lift now does not donate she says to And not want that task to the not a red mesh ché the black one go for this beautiful bidet to the mint Myself sudar us in that go for this cabinet and do not move open And vetrata type six legs of and extension (fresh) animal go for this confess the manie of import Go now make some small bijou to never, vetrata type six legs of lift down in the disinfected road Myself sudar us in that go now musicanti a valzer ignoto Not ah in veneziano baroque and turned of a quarter to right lift now driven in the pube Confess the manie of import and me deprived of hope the head go for this between the hands and I find With the feet intercrosses to lift for this autopalpazione I have a Now soccer the cats from the drums, fish thorn tendaggio. buio I lift and go while I counted two three two Lift for this yes have straight to cover, average passion and to the go step on. Erotic (Moment of Cabinet and do not move open not of the virtues reduced to two go for this in comunella all the family And step on. Erotic (Moment of not does not donate she says to lift now washbasin I reflect that knot Now broken the mirror that we had, the empty belly a vortex lift not lift best to sprangarsi in house to Now played the imperturbable, labbro and he burns but I have lift not go Westerns (the doors blink) Does not donate she says to go for this to table in the same places Go now of the virtues reduced to two, valzer to pills knows it) go the brain like letting out to Give distracted with grace and lift now me deprived of hope the head Lift for this stepping on all the parquet to, swollen gland to the breast if lift Commensali beautiful Common Grown inguine (e) finally not Westerns (the doors blink) go for this you sends in beast the Lights of average special not between the hands and I find go now fish thorn tendaggio. buio I Lift now autopalpazione I have a, beautiful bidet to the mint go a red mesh ché the black one Go for this mercy for the obsession-party, valzer to pills knows it) go mercy for the obsession-party Driven in the pube lift now beautiful bidet to the mint Go for this a dry blow from and make the, average passion and to the go mercy for the obsession-party Not they are in botte of iron an not spremuto heart latticino that go now therefore does not cry a Yes have straight to cover and beautiful bidet to the mint lift for this yes have straight to cover And I would attack to the go now you sends in beast the Moglie and husband goes to lift now broken the mirror that we had Myself sudar us in that and bad) understood to me to clear go for this I get angry he cracks the Go now six sorda? the servants the, a red mesh ché the black one lift manigoldi careful to Now in comunella all the family , three two three peletti to the go not lift a dry blow from and make the Go for this grown inguine (e) finally, confess the manie of import go the empty belly a vortex Valzer to pills knows it) and valzer to pills knows it) go for this ah in veneziano baroque Beautiful bidet to the mint go for this vetrata type six legs of Cabinet and do not move open lift now with the feet intercrosses to DOCUMENT REASSEMBLY PLANT #0006 For this Moscow spiaccicata in, Moscow spiaccicata in lift not lift bedroom to feel itself it was For this cabinet and do not move open, washbasin I reflect that knot lift not go between the hands and I find Men-sa-li is like not having and step on. Erotic (Moment of lift for this manigoldi the Mother it does For this the empty belly a vortex, you sends in beast the go not go and I would attack to the Lift for this not want that task to the, bedroom to feel itself it was go Commensali beautiful Common Not three two three peletti to the not extension (fresh) animal go now Moscow spiaccicata in For this confess the manie of import , the brain like letting out to go not lift last counted locandine. Lift for this yes have straight to cover, average passion and to the go does not donate she says to Go for this manigoldi careful to, spremuto heart latticino that lift a red mesh ché the black one Lift now impreca to the dripping center, confess the manie of import lift maneuvers to retromarcia is And grey mother has bought me and and grey Mother has bought me lift now moglie and husband goes to Broken the mirror that we had not they are in botte of iron an go for this vetrata type six legs of like can say air pocket in not manigoldi the Mother it does go for this vetrata type six legs of Not end alone not noise: muggito. Noir (has been go now all it is hereditary creed While I counted two three two go for this the brain like letting out to And broken the mirror that we had not confess the manie of import go for this does not donate she says to Impreca to the dripping center and in comunella all the family lift now therefore does not cry a For this all it is hereditary creed, spremuto heart latticino that lift and lift me deprived of hope the head Lift now Westerns (the doors blink), manigoldi the Mother it does go between the hands and I find Lift now between the hands and I find, between the hands and I find lift Westerns (the doors blink) Mercy for the obsession-party go now washbasin I reflect that knot All it is hereditary creed lift now nearly of bollicine to go up Now vetrata type six legs of, the brain like letting out to go and go make some small bijou to never For this does not donate she says to, noise: muggito. Noir (has been go not go in comunella all the family Beautiful bidet to the mint not they are in botte of iron an go now Commensali beautiful Common For this all it is hereditary creed, cabinet and do not move open go not lift squillante mesh in the Go now all it is hereditary creed, best to sprangarsi in house to lift not want that task to the Beautiful bidet to the mint not bedroom to feel itself it was lift for this and I would attack to the Three two three peletti to the and little from laughing Is always lift now infiocchettarlo in order to All it is hereditary creed and take them embracing them to go now average passion and to the Dignity) also the borghesine not while I counted two three two lift now average passion and to the The brain like letting out to not and I would attack to the go for this Lights of average special And not want that task to the not valzer to pills knows it) lift for this fish thorn tendaggio. buio I Not labbro and he burns but I have not me deprived of hope the head go now a red mesh ché the black one Lift for this Men-Sa-Li is like not having, they are in botte of iron an go Commensali beautiful Common Autopalpazione I have a go now valzer to pills knows it) Grown inguine (e) finally go for this impreca to the dripping center Now played the imperturbable, yes have straight to cover lift and lift musicanti a valzer ignoto And Men-Sa-Li is like not having and me deprived of hope the head lift now Moscow spiaccicata in For this give distracted with grace and, fish thorn tendaggio. buio I go and lift to table in the same places Six sorda? the servants the lift for this in comunella all the family For this bad) understood to me to clear, cabinet and do not move open lift and go myself sudar us in that Lift now best to sprangarsi in house to, while I counted two three two go valzer to pills knows it) Go now mercy for the obsession-party, ah in veneziano baroque go ah in veneziano baroque Lift for this Commensali beautiful Common-, the flight and is tonfo but lift nearly of bollicine to go up Harmony of battle in the room go for this noise: muggito. Noir (has been The flight and is tonfo but and confess the manie of import lift now ah in veneziano baroque Not me deprived of hope the head not make some small bijou to never lift for this Lights of average special Ah in veneziano baroque lift now does not donate she says to Now spremuto heart latticino that, give distracted with grace and lift and go little from laughing Is always Not bedroom to feel itself it was and spremuto heart latticino that go now a dry blow from and make the For this musicanti a valzer ignoto , Moscow spiaccicata in go and lift ah in veneziano baroque For this the flight and is tonfo but, cabinet and do not move open lift and lift you sends in beast the Lift now swollen gland to the breast if, the empty belly a vortex go Lights of average special The brain like letting out to not cabinet and do not move open go now I get angry he cracks the Not Moscow spiaccicata in and grown inguine (e) finally lift for this nearly of bollicine to go up For this bedroom to feel itself it was, noise: muggito. Noir (has been go and go to table in the same places Not infiocchettarlo in order to not maneuvers to retromarcia is go now a red mesh ché the black one AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION METAPOETICS THEATRE WORLDWIDE LITERATI MOBILIZATION NETWORK INTERNATIONAL BELLES LETTRES FEDERATION SUPERHEROES OF HUMANITIES --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 04:20:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Scott Pound Organization: Bilkent University Subject: Re: This email says I love you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE LANGUAGE Robert Creeley Locate I love you some- where in teeth and eyes, bite it but take care not to hurt, you want so much so little. Words say everything. I love you again, then what is emptiness for. To fill, fill. I heard words and words full of holes aching. Speech is a mouth. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Herron" To: Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 11:16 PM Subject: This email says I love you > Dearest Lewis: > > Your original request, word for word, which I believe I satisfied exactly, > went as follows: > > ***** > how does one say i love you in cobol? > > bliss > l > ***** > > I provided the COBOL way of saying it. So why the CAPS SHOUTING in response > to my satisfaction of your request? How to say "I love you" in COBOL. > There it is. Is there something you are trying to express to me that is, > umm, between the lines that I'm simply missing? > > Lewis, if I say "I love you," am I expressing it or am I merely typing it? > I think the answer to that question is the answer to your question. > > And the answer is, you have no idea. > > Love is a first-person phenomenon, whether that first-person be a human, > dog, or computer. Therefore, you have no idea, and no matter what I say, > you still will have no idea. That's the nature of love. It's a mystery, an > unverifiable state. It's a specific kind of the age-old general problem of > other minds. But the first-person experience of love or of being or of hate > or of sadness or joy is a certainty beyond expression of that experience. > Which, oddly enough, makes certainty irrelevant. > > Patrick > > > > Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 12:15:13 -0700 > From: Lewis LaCook > Subject: Re: This COBOL Says I Love You > > > yes...this cobol PRINTS i love you... > but does it EXPRESS i love you? > > bliss > l > > > > Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:21:10 -0400 > patrick@proximate.org > Subject: This COBOL Says I Love You > 000100 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. > 000200 PROGRAM-ID. ILOVEYOU. > 000300 > 000400*This COBOL says I love you > 000500 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION. > 000600 CONFIGURATION SECTION. > 000700 SOURCE-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. > 000800 OBJECT-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. > 000900 > 001000 DATA DIVISION. > 001100 FILE SECTION. > 001200 > 100000 PROCEDURE DIVISION. > 100100 > 100200 MAIN-LOGIC SECTION. > 100300 BEGIN. > 100400 DISPLAY " " LINE 1 POSITION 1 ERASE EOS. > 100500 DISPLAY "I LOVE YOU" LINE 15 POSITION 10. > 100600 STOP RUN. > 100700 MAIN-LOGIC-EXIT. > 100800 EXIT. > > ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 06:20:40 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: P.O.I..Point of Info... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry to confuse..the poem OF COURSE is Ted's... you can hear his voice in it..tho i never heard him read it.. he had a contentious relationship with Langston..as do we all both fathers and sons..and esp. spiritual fathers and sons..i think it belies the oft expressed view that Ted wasn't a wunderful poet..he certainly was an uneven one..and T.J..that's thank joans for that...who cares if its any good...the Norton Anth..Henry L. Gates...yo man..harry.. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 02:16:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Fw: playing around with the text thing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I yes there is sadness in those poems read at dusk when thoughts turn to Sunday preparations for Monday morning work alarms to the it's five more days until the weekend gloom and the dusk just clings to their hearts as they pick up their books, dump their to-go cups in the trash, wave to friends as they return perhaps to=20 an empty house and this was their only moment, their only solace for the week, just a few hours of poetry with people who listen to their words listen to their sadness and feel the dusk as if settles=20 into night II an empty house and this was their only moment, their only solace for the week, just a few hours of poetry with people who listen to their words listen to their sadness and feel the dusk as if settles=20 into night yes there is sadness in those poems read at dusk when thoughts turn to Sunday preparations for Monday morning work alarms to the it's five more days until the weekend gloom and the dusk just clings to their hearts as they pick up their books, dump their to-go cups in the trash, wave to friends as they return perhaps to=20 III and feel the dusk as if settles=20 into night yes there is sadness in those poems read at dusk an empty house and this was their only moment, their only for Monday morning work alarms to the it's five more days until the weekend gloom and the dusk just clings to their hearts as they pick up their books, dump their to-go cups in the trash, wave to friends as they return perhaps to=20 solace for the week, just a few hours of poetry with people who listen to their words listen to their sadness when thoughts turn to Sunday preparations IV with people who listen to their words to the it's five more days until the weekend gloom and the dusk just clings to their hearts as they pick up their books, dump their to-go cups listen to their sadness when thoughts turn to Sunday preparations an empty house and this was their only moment, their only for Monday morning work alarms and feel the dusk as it settles=20 into night yes there is sadness in those poems read at dusk in the trash, wave to friends as they return perhaps to=20 solace for the week, just a few hours of poetry V with people who listen to their words to the it's five more days until the weekend gloom and the dusk just clings to their hearts as they pick up their books, dump their to-go cups listen to their sadness when thoughts turn to Sunday preparations an empty house and this was their only moment, = their only for Monday morning work alarms and feel the dusk as it settles into night yes there is sadness in those poems read at dusk in the trash, wave to friends as they return perhaps to=20 solace for the week, just a few hours of poetry VI to Sunday preparations an empty house and this was their only moment, = their only for Monday morning work alarms and feel the dusk as it settles into night yes there is sadness in those poems read at dusk in the trash, wave to friends as they return perhaps to=20 solace for the week, just a few hours of poetry with people who listen to their words to the it's five more days until the weekend gloom and the dusk just clings to their hearts as they pick up their books, dump their to-go cups listen to their sadness when thoughts turn VII Sunday preparations=20 an empty chair their only moment work alarms and feel the dusk settle into=20 sadness=20 those poems read at dusk=20 now in the trash wave to friends=20 return perhaps solace for a few hours=20 people who listen=20 weekend gloom=20 and the dusk=20 the dusk just clings to their hearts listen to their sadness=20 when thoughts turn --Terrie Relf ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 09:10:06 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: Silliman's Blog Comments: To: WOM-PO , BRITISH-POETS@JISCMAIL.AC.UK, nanders1@swarthmore.edu, new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu, whpoets MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ Rob Stanton reading Anne Carson & doubt vs. error Kit Robinson's 9:45 & langpo's relation to the New York School Certainty is not the opposite of doubt, but rather certainty is the opposite of complexity (the far rights' war on complexity) Kristin Prevallet's Lead, Glass and Poppy: Skanky vs. Primitive The New York School, Auden & the heritage of British letters in US trade publishing Fanny Howe & the limits of close reading Rodney Koeneke: another reading of Fanny Howe's Doubt Kit Robinson reading Merrill Gilfillan's "Bull Run in October" Nate Dorward in defense of Charles Tomlinson Genre & expectation Fanny Howe's "Doubt" Rob Halpern on Aloysius Bertrand & the problem of intention at the origin of the prose poem Charles Bernstein's "In Particular" Two new books from Kristin Prevallet http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/ 35,000 visitors served since September 2002 ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 08:20:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Tracy S. Ruggles" Subject: Re: This COBOL Says I Love You In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit # ---// python love class being(object): def __init__ (me, other): me.object = other def love (me, you): return you.love(me) you = being(None) i = being(you) while isinstance(you, being): i.love(you) # ---// love's output: [ ... ] File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded On Sunday, May 25, 2003, at 02:15 PM, Lewis LaCook wrote: > yes...this cobol PRINTS i love you... > but does it EXPRESS i love you? > > bliss > l > > > > Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 15:21:10 -0400 > patrick@proximate.org > Subject: This COBOL Says I Love You > 000100 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION. > 000200 PROGRAM-ID. ILOVEYOU. > 000300 > 000400*This COBOL says I love you > 000500 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION. > 000600 CONFIGURATION SECTION. > 000700 SOURCE-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. > 000800 OBJECT-COMPUTER. RM-COBOL. > 000900 > 001000 DATA DIVISION. > 001100 FILE SECTION. > 001200 > 100000 PROCEDURE DIVISION. > 100100 > 100200 MAIN-LOGIC SECTION. > 100300 BEGIN. > 100400 DISPLAY " " LINE 1 POSITION 1 ERASE EOS. > 100500 DISPLAY "I LOVE YOU" LINE 15 POSITION 10. > 100600 STOP RUN. > 100700 MAIN-LOGIC-EXIT. > 100800 EXIT. > > > > > ===== > > > NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows > > http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe > > http://www.lewislacook.com/ > > tubulence artist studio: > http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. > http://search.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 09:21:41 -0400 Reply-To: poetry@hypobololemaioi.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: West of the Urals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 This week in Tomsk: 27 May, Tuesday, 17:30 "Aura, the Internet and Global Communication - Walter Benjamin's Arcades Project" Lecturer: Kevin Magee, writer, USA Venue: The British Council Centre Address: Tomsk, Ousova Street, 4a Phone: 42-63-89 or 42-65-38 30 May, Friday, 18:00 Bolts of Melody - American poet Kevin Magee reads from "Works & Days" with Bertrand Larvor, France, on piano and guitar Lenin Prospect (Next to Tomsk State University) Ky-Ky-shka cafe Phone: 42-65-72 email: ky-ky-shka@mail.ru http://hypobololemaioi.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:33:32 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: Remember Rexroth with Hagedorn, Hamill, Morrow, and Weinberger Comments: To: ubuweb@yahoogroups.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tomorrow Tuesday, 27 May 2003 7:00 to 9:00 p.m. at the Bowery Poetry Club 308 Bowery (at First St. and Bowery, across the street from CBGBs) Kenneth Rexroth was born in 1905 in South Bend, Indiana. The author of=20 nearly sixty books, including translations from the Chinese, Japanese,=20 Italian, and Swedish, and his Classics and Classics Revisited among several= =20 volumes of essays, he was one of the most original and universal literary=20 scholars of the century. His vision of brotherhood embodied by a moral,=20 aesthetic, and spiritual clarity--unknown to many--will provide us with a=20 night of a lucid criticism as we ponder the current war with Iraq and the=20 unrest fostered by our government. Jessica Hagedorn moved from Manila, Philippines to San Francisco at the age= =20 of fourteen, and became a prot=E9g=E9 of Rexroth. Hagedorn's work includes= =20 poetry, prose, performance art, and music. In addition to two novels,=20 Hagedorn's books include a collection of poetry and short prose. She is=20 also the editor of Charlie Chan is Dead. Sam Hamill is the author of thirteen volumes of poetry. Hamill taught in=20 prisons for fourteen years, in artist-in-residency programs for twenty=20 years, and has worked extensively with battered women and children. He is=20 the founding editor of Copper Canyon Press and director of the Port=20 Townsend Writers' Conference. Hamill currently lives in Port Townsend,=20 Washington. Bradford Morrow is the literary executor for the Kenneth Rexroth Trust.=20 Morrow founded the literary journal Conjunctions in 1981. He is the author= =20 of five novels: Come Sunday, The Almanac Branch, Trinity Fields, Giovanni's= =20 Gift, and most recently Ariel=92s Crossing. Eliot Weinberger is the author of three collections of essays published by= =20 New Directions, and the editor and translator of works by Octavio Paz,=20 Jorge Luis Borges, Vicente Huidobro, and Bei Dao. His most recent books are= =20 "9/12" (political articles) and the "New Directions Anthology of Classical= =20 Chinese Poetry," which he edited. ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:14:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: This COBOL Says I Love You MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii quite kool--- code poetry at it's finest...i especially like the comment about love's output...and the runtime error is optimistic! bliss l Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 08:20:26 -0500 From: "Tracy S. Ruggles" Subject: Re: This COBOL Says I Love You # ---// python love class being(object): def __init__ (me, other): me.object = other def love (me, you): return you.love(me) you = being(None) i = being(you) while isinstance(you, being): i.love(you) # ---// love's output: [ ... ] File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) File "love.py", line 5, in love return you.love(me) RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:19:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Re: This email says I love you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear, sweet Patrick, love the examination of the "uncertainty" of love you express here... didn't mean to shout, only to bold... yes, this code says i love you, but it doesn't really use COBOL to do it...it uses to COBOL to print i love you...there's nothing of love in the COBOL here, but much about the output stream--- my original point was about how regimented code is...so, you can get code to output any string you want it to, but how do you get the code itself to express love? because here the love isn't in the language, it's in OUR language---and granted, the COBOL isn't the machine's language either, but... but i really do like your examination, your explanation here! bliss l Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 23:16:32 -0400 From: Patrick Herron Subject: This email says I love you Dearest Lewis: Your original request, word for word, which I believe I satisfied exactly, went as follows: ***** how does one say i love you in cobol? bliss l ***** I provided the COBOL way of saying it. So why the CAPS SHOUTING in response to my satisfaction of your request? How to say "I love you" in COBOL. There it is. Is there something you are trying to express to me that is, umm, between the lines that I'm simply missing? Lewis, if I say "I love you," am I expressing it or am I merely typing it? I think the answer to that question is the answer to your question. And the answer is, you have no idea. Love is a first-person phenomenon, whether that first-person be a human, dog, or computer. Therefore, you have no idea, and no matter what I say, you still will have no idea. That's the nature of love. It's a mystery, an unverifiable state. It's a specific kind of the age-old general problem of other minds. But the first-person experience of love or of being or of hate or of sadness or joy is a certainty beyond expression of that experience. Which, oddly enough, makes certainty irrelevant. Patrick ===== NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 15:45:52 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Po Joans Jones Langston...That Was.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Is this a Ted Joans poem? -- Kirby Olson Brennen Lukas wrote: > This is amazing. When did you write this marvel? Are we seeing it first? > > > PASSED ON BLUES: HOMAGE TO A POET > > > > the sound of black music > > the sad soft low moan of jazz ROUND BOUT MIDNIGHT > > the glad heavy fat screaming song of happy blues > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the mood indigo candle flame > > the rough racy hot gut bucket riff tune AFTER HOURS > > the fast swinging rapid rocking riff rumping blues > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the funky butt grind > > the every night jitterbug jiving gliding his Trouble in Mind > > the brown black beige high yaller bouncer's shoes > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the sonata of Harlem > > the concerto to shoulder bones/pinto beans/hamhocks In the Dark > > the slow good bouncing grooves > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the elephant laugh > > the rain forest giggles under a switchblade downpour > > the zoot suited conked head razor throat Stompin' at the Savoy > > the colored newspaper with no good news > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the Jess B. Semple hip sneer > > the bassist/drummer/pianist/guitarist/rhythm on top of Caledonia > > the take it, shake it, rattle, lay back and make it (or lose!) > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the big black mouth > > the pawnshop/butcher shop/likker shop..Bebop! > > the rats in the rice, roaches of reefers on relief amused > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the manhattan subway stool > > the naked thigh, double breasted one button Roll On To Jesus! > > the poolroom chalk & click, fat chick wobble in cigarette tar baby > crews > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the chain gang jingle > > the evil laughter against the atomic Honeydripper > > the brownstone tenement cold filthy frozen winter hell ghetto dues > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the uh-huh, Oo-wee, oh yeah of hot climax > > the hustlers haunt, prostitutes pimp, bitter Sweet Georgia Brown > > the hep hip hi junkie tongue tied black eyed bruise > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the sounds of dangerous black humor > > the swift sharp flash of Afroamerica Struttin' Wild Sum Bar-B-Q > > the Presence Africaine, Harlem Jew, chittlin switching cruise > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the fried fish'n'chicken boogie woogie > > the store front church Cadillac/wig wearing/gospel truths/When They > Crucified My Lord > > the nigger loving Thirties, dozens by the dirties on ofay's muse > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the rent party good-timing crowd > > the shout strut twist turning loud raving but Ain't Misbehavin' > > the darkie,jig;coon, hidden shadowy spade drowned in booze > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the taker of A Trains > > the sticker upper, alley cat, hustler, poolshark cleanhead Hucklebuck > > the cornbread smell,grits,greens,watermelon, spare ribs, never > refused! > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the cool crowded summer solo horn > > the red rattled raisin around the sun/migrated Dixieland Strange Fruit > > the jim crow/blaack crow/ol' Crow/ moonshine splo/niggers can't go > or choose > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > the sweaty hard-working muscle making black back breaking hard > labour hump > > the bold bright colors on ebony nappy head big titty itty bitty Liza Jane > > the millions and millions raising up strong been done wrong too long > pointing > > the abused body at slum lord! police lord! oh Lord, all guilty and > accused > > THAT WAS THE WORLD OF THE POET LANGSTON HUGHES > > BLACK DUES! BLACK BLUES! BLACK NEWS! > > THAT WAS THE WORLD OF THE GREATEST BLACK POET > > LANGSTON HUGHES > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 16:07:28 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Could anybody explain what speech-act theory is, and whether it impact on our conversation regarding extra-linguistic reality? Does it mean that speech is granted the status of an act, or something like that? Does that bring language any more into the realm of the "real"? I think that Saussure never meant to create a closed linguistic world. He only did so in order to clarify linguistic concepts. He used organic metaphors. He said that the real of the signified was one side of a leaf, its signifier another side. He also did say that trees exist. Even Lacan has the idea that the realm of the real does in fact exist. So I've been wondering where this whole idea that the real is only known through its signifiers came from. It could have come from Berkeley, but when you read Berkeley you become inordinately aware of the real. Plus, he cheats. He only talks about singular large objects, like castles, sitting on the retina. He never talks about actually playing hopscotch, or anything more active than this, in order to make his case that this world is God's language (a wonderful idea with horrible implications if you start to think about SARS or even LYME's DISEASE, which I spent the week pondering). Does Derrida completely eclipse the real? To some extent this IS a tendency in French postmodernism, but they never go this far. Lyotard says simply that when we speak it is something outside of language, a subject, who is speaking. He uses Frege to ground this. What I think is needed is a language, a set of ideas, that is adequate to reality. That is, I pose language as something in between a subject and a real, somewhat as the Dalai Lama posed causality. With responsibility as a necessary adjunct. That is, if you are going to talk about an ideology then you also have to pose consequences or else we are just in nowhere land. What are the results of choosing a spouse for instance through astrology? What are the consequences of choosing employees via phrenology? The kind of solipsism posited by everything is language sorta negates consequences, methinks, although it's damned hard to move Bill Austin off this post, and I'm not even going to try -- he's too clever. So, what I think needs doing is to elaborate a language that has positive effects. I more or less think that Madison's Bill of Rights does achieve this. I'm less sure of astrology or phrenology, to put it very mildly. Madison's Hobbesian view of human nature combined with his Lockean optimism has resulted in a good sharp sense of checks and balances, combined with good possibilities for all. Thus it may fit into speech-act theory which I haven't looked up as um creating a realm of possible human transactions that disbar exclusionary radicalism from either right or left, and are inclusive, instead. This kind of exclusion seems to me the remaining problem with the French left, if they still matter to people (I think they are good mostly for laughs, but laughter is not altogether a bad thing). For instance, in the infamous History of Sexuality by Foucault, he actually implies it's ok for a little girl to be raped and used sexually by a field hand (pp. 30-32). He says what's the problem? This is French village life! This sort of language creates the possibility for other kinds of actions. Somehow the idea of judgment of anything either right or wrong disappeared in the French left. Language has to lay down clarity on some things -- like that child rape is wrong, no? Otherwise, what kind of society have you got? This is where religious language steps in -- the causality and the responsibility of the Dalai Lama, or the Ten Commandments given to Moses. It seems that Bill Austin isn't going to grant any language any stronger values preference over any other language. Somehow if you don't have a real to refer to - the real of others' suffering, for instance, you just float in an ether of meaninglessness. So therefore I think we have to posit as a minimal reality a kind of faith in others' suffering. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 16:26:30 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Derek R Organization: derekrogerson.com Subject: Re: Certainty & Doubt on Silliman's Blog In-Reply-To: <000001c32388$250eb0b0$ca74ed41@Dell> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >| http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/#94893801 (via Rob Stanton) >| >| It may be true, as Rae Armantrout says, that >| 'it's not possible to say, "I'll wake 'em up with >| my startling ambiguities" anymore', but it sure >| beats being smug.* ~ *Yeats' too-smug phrase: 'clicked shut like a box' __________________________________________ One shouldn't knock hard-headed maximal closure (hyperdetermination), because it, *itself,* is the best evidence we have of impossibility (uncertainty) -- which is to say maximal closure is not merely 'unbelievable,' but 'impossible.' "The greatest poverty," said Wallace Stevens, "is not to live / In a physical world . . . ." And Keats, in describing 'Negative Capability' in his "Letters," was not rejecting the epigrammatic as genre, but, as Romantic poet, he was rejecting a 'style and attitude' rather than a *form.* Which leads into: >| http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/#94779501 >| >| Certainty is not the opposite of doubt, but rather >| certainty is the opposite of complexity Yes! And this is more how I like to think about -- that "strong and wrong [is more useful] than weak and right." Which is to say: >| The relationship between certainty & doubt, >| simplicity & complexity, intersects with poetry >| at many different points & angles ...the same as the simple 'Law of Causes and Effects' produces demonstrations/relations so great as to be infinite (Spinoza). (Which is to say -- every observed effect in the universe, every scientific law, every implement devised and built by engineers, every trivial action of every animal, plant, and mineral in the known universe, demonstrates the validity of the Law of Causes and Effects. Or said differently, all these demonstrations fail to disprove the Law.) In other words, by placing all-your-eggs in empiricism's leaky basket, you achieve nothing more than what you set out to do. Therefore, it is more useful to self-actualize, or rather, find *contentment* (strong/certain action) with 'what is,' even if being "smug," since this hyperdetermination is equally valid, and, in addition, 'engenders repose' (generosity). "Be magnanimous in the enterprise." -- Shakespeare, "All's Well That Ends Well" ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 16:48:05 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: Boog City Small Press Library needs your help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all, We've begun the massive job of cataloging the small press publications we've acquired here at Boog City over the past 12 years, anticipating a late summer, early fall opening of our nonlending small press library. (We'll be keeping some hours, and also working on a by appointment basis for researchers and the interested general public.) If anyone is interested in assisting with this cataloging project, please backchannel. There's no cash involved, but, as with all boog ventures, we can fill yr belly with food, yr shelves with a vast array of small press ephemera, and yr mind with the musings of our editorial staff. as ever, David ________ David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 206-8899 F: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 21:06:43 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Henrike Lichtenberg Subject: The Music Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed ha! RedHead! - i enjoy your postings very much, alan. h. .................................................. "Certainly, to my personal knowledge, all Hegelians are not prigs, but I somehow feel as if all prigs ought to end, if developed, by becoming Hegelians." W. James _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 17:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brennen Lukas Subject: Re: Po Joans Jones Langston...That Was.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies. It is indeed a Ted Joans poem. As I'd never before seen any of Joans' work, I got cornfused and credited Po Nudel. I still like the poem, regardless of the author. Brennen Lukas > Is this a Ted Joans poem? > > -- Kirby Olson > > Brennen Lukas wrote: > > > This is amazing. When did you write this marvel? Are we seeing it first? > > > > > PASSED ON BLUES: HOMAGE TO A POET > > > > > > the sound of black music > > > the sad soft low moan of jazz ROUND BOUT MIDNIGHT > > > the glad heavy fat screaming song of happy blues > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the mood indigo candle flame > > > the rough racy hot gut bucket riff tune AFTER HOURS > > > the fast swinging rapid rocking riff rumping blues > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the funky butt grind > > > the every night jitterbug jiving gliding his Trouble in Mind > > > the brown black beige high yaller bouncer's shoes > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the sonata of Harlem > > > the concerto to shoulder bones/pinto beans/hamhocks In the Dark > > > the slow good bouncing grooves > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the elephant laugh > > > the rain forest giggles under a switchblade downpour > > > the zoot suited conked head razor throat Stompin' at the Savoy > > > the colored newspaper with no good news > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the Jess B. Semple hip sneer > > > the bassist/drummer/pianist/guitarist/rhythm on top of Caledonia > > > the take it, shake it, rattle, lay back and make it (or lose!) > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the big black mouth > > > the pawnshop/butcher shop/likker shop..Bebop! > > > the rats in the rice, roaches of reefers on relief amused > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the manhattan subway stool > > > the naked thigh, double breasted one button Roll On To Jesus! > > > the poolroom chalk & click, fat chick wobble in cigarette tar baby > > crews > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the chain gang jingle > > > the evil laughter against the atomic Honeydripper > > > the brownstone tenement cold filthy frozen winter hell ghetto dues > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the uh-huh, Oo-wee, oh yeah of hot climax > > > the hustlers haunt, prostitutes pimp, bitter Sweet Georgia Brown > > > the hep hip hi junkie tongue tied black eyed bruise > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the sounds of dangerous black humor > > > the swift sharp flash of Afroamerica Struttin' Wild Sum Bar-B-Q > > > the Presence Africaine, Harlem Jew, chittlin switching cruise > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the fried fish'n'chicken boogie woogie > > > the store front church Cadillac/wig wearing/gospel truths/When They > > Crucified My Lord > > > the nigger loving Thirties, dozens by the dirties on ofay's muse > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the rent party good-timing crowd > > > the shout strut twist turning loud raving but Ain't Misbehavin' > > > the darkie,jig;coon, hidden shadowy spade drowned in booze > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the taker of A Trains > > > the sticker upper, alley cat, hustler, poolshark cleanhead Hucklebuck > > > the cornbread smell,grits,greens,watermelon, spare ribs, never > > refused! > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the cool crowded summer solo horn > > > the red rattled raisin around the sun/migrated Dixieland Strange Fruit > > > the jim crow/blaack crow/ol' Crow/ moonshine splo/niggers can't go > > or choose > > > That was the world of Langston Hughes > > > > > > the sweaty hard-working muscle making black back breaking hard > > labour hump > > > the bold bright colors on ebony nappy head big titty itty bitty Liza Jane > > > the millions and millions raising up strong been done wrong too long > > pointing > > > the abused body at slum lord! police lord! oh Lord, all guilty and > > accused > > > THAT WAS THE WORLD OF THE POET LANGSTON HUGHES > > > BLACK DUES! BLACK BLUES! BLACK NEWS! > > > THAT WAS THE WORLD OF THE GREATEST BLACK POET > > > LANGSTON HUGHES > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 15:18:38 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: This email says I love you MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > yes, this code says i love you, but it doesn't really > use COBOL to do it...it uses to COBOL to print i love > you...there's nothing of love in the COBOL here, but > much about the output stream--- > > my original point was about how regimented code > is...so, you can get code to output any string you > want it to, but how do you get the code itself to > express love? because here the love isn't in the > language, it's in OUR language---and granted, the > COBOL isn't the machine's language either, but... Good comments, Lewis. The warmth of words, the love they can radiate, comes from the etymology within them, while there's a coldness to code, because it has no past that is not our present. Code isn't human language yet, but a tool, like an obsidian knife that some poets are using to try and whittle a ring. Regards, Joel ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 00:28:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Dispersion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Dispersion The spews and emissions of the universe are of fundamental consequence; from plasmas through aerodynamics, particle fields through one-to-many electromagnetic transmitters, dispersion characterizes the world. Objects are temporary at best; objects cohere, disperse, decay, splinter, dissolve, discharge, as in decathexis. What cathects is temporary at best; 'defuge' is a basic process that sloughs attentivity and value. As groups form and dissolve, temporary genidentity structures local flows; one participates, drops out, identifies, decathects, and so forth, from birth to death; after death, the aura of effects transforms and continues, while the name and provenance become increasingly remote. Dispersion occurs on-line and off (Rheingold's Smart Mobs); packet transmission itself is both dispersion and coalescence. If a site does not acknowledge, error messages may be returned to the transmitter, as if they were growing fainter (they do not) with each passing communication, until the time limit is reached; then everything stops. Lost messages constantly float, as do disconnected webpages, dead-ended links, any forms of interruptions within the temporary flows and stases that constitute both inter- and intranets. Writing or programming or producing within these spaces, these paradigms, (which themselves are in flux) is problematic; hardware and software, languages and protocols, die out. There is an apocalyptic air to what can only be labeled _dispersion production,_ an air of disappearance which pervades the work produced; nothing is as permanent as modernism. What remains is the remnants or residue of audience, for whom the work is peripheral; instead, it is the political economy of the structure and state-space of the work, in terms of communality and accessibility, that determines its relative value. Genre, typology, typification, become irrelevant, replaced by situational analysis. What is functional is the occasion and occasioning of speech. And speech is not only _parole,_ momentary enunciation; it parasitizes writing and inscription. Inscriptive production problematizes and occasions dispersion production; dispersion production problematizes and occasions inscriptive production through speech and other communicative acts. We are mistaken to the extent we desire the occasion to override the occasional. The occasional is the kernel (to the extent that the kernel absorbs identity) of infinity; the disappearance of identity is also the disappearance of all products of labor, piecemeal or otherwise. That is why we say, "Nothing matters at all, except you!" "I am nothing without my fans!" "The use-value is replaced by the exchange value!" "You are everything to me!" ___ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 00:39:56 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Nikuko-Dispersion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Nikuko-Dispersion Nikuko-Dispersion is language independent, programming independent, context-free, protocol independent. Nikuko-Dispersion is digital-eternal, infinitely duplicated, the phenomenology of equivalence. The structure of Nikuko-Dispersion is that of transmissions and receptions, transmittings and receivings, a structure of residues and flows. The digital-eternal is no such thing in praxis, therefore no such thing. Masteries and technologies erode, are forsaken. Every potential well is statistical at best. There are no ultimate solutions. Nikuko-Dispersion is Nikuko-Filter, transformations in which the Nikuko kernel is parasitic, the coloration of flux, just as all avatars are filters. Someday we will find all entities, processes, continuums, states, and operators are filters, that the cosmos is a collocation of filters and jostlings of filters. Nikuko-Filter adapts to languages, programs, and protocols. Nikuko-Filter is an adaptation. Filter and Dispersion are equivalent; one is not the parasitic on the other, nor is one the object to the process of the other. What holds for Nikuko-Filter, Nikuko-Dispersion, holds for N-Filter, N-Dispersion, where N is ontologically equivalent and dispersed among traditional process- and entity-oriented ontologies. These transform- ations are understood as fundamental to the universe in its entirety. (Think of Filter-Dispersion, _difilter,_ _difiltering,_ _difiltration._ Any neologism will do.) ___ ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 22:08:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: dcmb Subject: Re: Boog City Small Press Library needs your help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How might I be of assistance/? I've been on the scene since 1960, the scene as viewable from Berkeley '62-70, from Sonoma County 70-78 and 80-present, and San Francisco 78-80....associated with many magazines etc. in those years: how can I hrlp from here (Sebastopol)? All my best, David Bromige -----Original Message----- From: David A. Kirschenbaum To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Date: Monday, May 26, 2003 1:48 PM Subject: Boog City Small Press Library needs your help >Hi all, > >We've begun the massive job of cataloging the small press publications we've >acquired here at Boog City over the past 12 years, anticipating a late summer, >early fall opening of our nonlending small press library. (We'll be keeping >some hours, and also working on a by appointment basis for researchers and the >interested general public.) > >If anyone is interested in assisting with this cataloging project, please >backchannel. There's no cash involved, but, as with all boog ventures, we can >fill yr belly with food, yr shelves with a vast array of small press ephemera, >and yr mind with the musings of our editorial staff. > >as ever, >David > >________ > >David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher >Boog City >330 W.28th St., Suite 6H >NY, NY 10001-4754 >T: (212) 206-8899 >F: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 01:16:31 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: email address change MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note my email address change to: gfrym@earthlink.net or gfrym@ccac-art.edu ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 02:46:14 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory from the viewpoint Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT of the printed page does not allow for any reality beyond language as Borges and Canetti attest but as speech act or visual text or gesture or ________ the person of the poet can come alive and move the poem off the page into an actuality and embody it for ward march left, right heidy ho off we go free of the page? tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the printed poem ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 03:09:31 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: gravity's elbow (language and world) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks for the heads up, Tom. As for slippage, what about looking at this from a temporal point of view,for example, a la Fitzgerald's idea that "We beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly to the past? I always think of these final lines of The Great Gatsby, in the sense that what frequently appears as opacity, distortion or confusion may operate linguistically or lexically as switching stations for overlapping time zones (memory): language keeps pushing us closer to reality, the provocations that won't be accounted for. In psychoanalysis language at one moment leads, at another follows, definer and defined, as in the process of creating the poem. In poetry and in psychoanalysis, the "rules" of language give way to and are reshaped by a quest for encompassment of experience, not precision or accountability to received modes of classifying, describing or explaining it. Sorry if I'm a bit scattered here at 3am, post blogging. Did want to chime in, though. -Nick- visit me at fait accompli- http://nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ > > Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 00:51:10 -0500 > From: tom bell > Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) > > Unfortunately Nick seems not to be attending this thread but I'm struck with > the similarity to effective therapeutic communication where for me what the > client wants to articulate seems to be in his/her body or reside in the air > between us. > > tom bell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven Shoemaker" > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 4:05 PM > Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) > > >> Tom--Well, I would say, no, language *cannot* convey this experience. And >> that's what I find interesting. Language can convey an approximation, a >> representation that has to include a difference. For me that kind of >> slippage is part of what makes language, especially poetry, >> interesting. Now, textual "differences" and slips and gaps are all the >> theoretical rage these days, and that discourse is relevant to what I'm >> interested in, but again there's a difference. Mostly these slips and >> gaps are examined only as textual phenomena, i.e. phenomena that arise out >> of the way texts work. But I'm interested in thinking about language >> while keeping a (meta)physical sense of things, so that some of the slips >> that intrigue me are what you might call primal ones. We do *try* to >> convey, we *want* to convey, and this attempt to put across what probably >> cannot be communicated is something that moves me in some of the poetry I >> like best. steve > > ------------------------------ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 03:12:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: Confessions of a Blog Artist- Poetry Project Newsletter June-Sept Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable :: Saturday, May 24 :: The Poetry Project Newsletter, issue #195, for June-September 2003, edited by Nada Gordon and Gary Sullivan is hot of the press! The issue is mostly devoted to blogging and bloggers with pieces, for the most part drawn from the blogs of Drew Gardner, Stephanie Young, Patrick Durgin, David Hess, Jac= k Kimball, Jordan Davis, Tim Yu, Heriberto Yepez, Eileen Tabios, Brandon Barr= , Marianne Shaneen, Mairead Byrne, Camille Roy; a poem by Marianne Moore adapted to the topic of blogging by Brian Kim Stefans, a conversation drawn from the blogs of Josh Corey and K. Silem Mohammed; and Jack Kimball on new work by Bruce Andrews, Joe Elliot, David Larsen, Carol Mirakove, Rene Ricar= d and Lytle Shaw. This gala, but final issue to be edited by Gary and Nada includes an in-depth review of George Stanley's *A Tall Serious Girl* by Lewis Warsh and a terrific comic strip by Sharon Mesmer and David Bourchart *Rebuilding the City of The Future*and a piece by me titled "Confessions of a Blog Artist." Free to members, the issue costs $5. The Poetry Project is located at 131 East 10th Street, NY , NY 10003, (212) 674-0910. Email poproj@thorn.net=20 web site: www.poetryproject.com :: Nick Piombino 6:48 PM [+] :: .=A0.=A0.=A0.=A0.=A0.=20 fait accompli- http:nickpiombino.blogspot.com/ ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 02:56:48 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0031 - #0035 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0031 - #0035 suppose that I was a suppose that I was a living with me so living with me so living with me so and weary, and and weary, and suppose that I was a performer of performer of was looking at the was looking at the was looking at the Ann threw her head Ann threw her head performer of explained; "they re explained; "they re teller, who held a teller, who held a teller, who held a or energy, the or energy, the explained; "they re darling," said darling," said scenes in the scenes in the scenes in the laughed. laughed. darling," said From the moment he From the moment he All of the All of the All of the giving the whole giving the whole From the moment he out his watch. "We out his watch. "We and breeches united and breeches united and breeches united servant in the stead servant in the stead out his watch. "We don't you see light don't you see light mulberry-and he deftly mulberry-and he deftly mulberry-and he deftly sense of the term. sense of the term. don't you see light NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0032 aying this he began Saying this he began phrase. An idea that phrase. An idea that phrase. An idea that and he did not and he did not Saying this he began expectation. But expectation. But the hillock behind the hillock behind the hillock behind understood it) understood it) expectation. But swings open. At swings open. At the lady looked out -brought on the five the lady looked out -brought on the five the lady looked out -brought on the five outside the house. outside the house. swings open. At to-day?" said the to-day?" said the job to do in the job to do in the job to do in the "So, are you all "So, are you all to-day?" said the Tethertown; choose Tethertown; choose began to thrust in began to thrust in began to thrust in then I fancied that then I fancied that Tethertown; choose arrival over night, arrival over night, But, from the point But, from the point But, from the point football knows what football knows what arrival over night, concern on her face. concern on her face. "commonly known as "commonly known as "commonly known as rising, "it's a pie; rising, "it's a pie; concern on her face. it. The Church not it. The Church not schleswig-holstein schleswig-holstein it. The Church not NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0033 Her smooth shoulders Her smooth shoulders worthy young worthy young worthy young and finished the and finished the Her smooth shoulders Laidly Beast stirred Laidly Beast stirred expectations depend. expectations depend. expectations depend. and matching g- and matching g- Laidly Beast stirred Suppose you Suppose you teacher, I am rich, teacher, I am rich, teacher, I am rich, often and often often and often Suppose you better if you touch better if you touch not here now and it not here now and it not here now and it through the world through the world better if you touch is there. is there. over the upper part over the upper part over the upper part is there. "Quite so, sir!" "Quite so, sir!" holding hands by the holding hands by the holding hands by the Here's a ring!" Here's a ring!" "Quite so, sir!" suburbs, and they're suburbs, and they're suburbs, and they're soon as I returned soon as I returned "'What can you do?' "'What can you do?' the other one!" -and he deftly the other one!" -and he deftly the other one!" -and he deftly non-military non-military "'What can you do?' NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0034 them see both your them see both your was particularly was particularly was particularly sort of bright and sort of bright and them see both your until proven guilty. until proven guilty. apparition came up apparition came up apparition came up until proven guilty. "Pip, sir." "Pip, sir." "Pip, sir." the window, like the window, like retirement pay, retirement pay, parted from us at parted from us at parted from us at made up for it. made up for it. retirement pay, analysis, is itself analysis, is itself non-commissioned Jaggers stopped me. non-commissioned Jaggers stopped me. non-commissioned Jaggers stopped me. turns again to her turns again to her analysis, is itself are the color of are the color of space," said Dave space," said Dave space," said Dave didn't have a bra on didn't have a bra on are the color of at intervals of a at intervals of a at intervals of a crimes." crimes." retreat our glasses retreat our glasses took me aback to took me aback to took me aback to equipment and equipment and retreat our glasses her. It wasn't long her. It wasn't long novelette. novelette. novelette. nature of the object nature of the object her. It wasn't long NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0035 that by your ears that by your ears placidest way. placidest way. placidest way. pen, in a desperate pen, in a desperate that by your ears and it happened that and it happened that glad if I could come glad if I could come glad if I could come away again, away again, and it happened that first one thin strap first one thin strap Jacks, which ought Jacks, which ought Jacks, which ought getting back to the getting back to the first one thin strap "I wish you would "I wish you would most fearfully most fearfully most fearfully foreign company or foreign company or "I wish you would to slacken, and the to slacken, and the graduates. It is graduates. It is graduates. It is Biddy, that I would Biddy, that I would to slacken, and the returned the skull, returned the skull, not entirely due to not entirely due to not entirely due to referred to her, referred to her, returned the skull, sped, Arthur said, " sped, Arthur said, " it was in my it was in my it was in my went down with his went down with his sped, Arthur said, " "Of course it does. "Of course it does. observer of things observer of things observer of things "Oh! there are many "Oh! there are many "Of course it does. Then the cowboy said Then the cowboy said bicker-hole on the bicker-hole on the bicker-hole on the thousand thousand Then the cowboy said feeling. She could feeling. She could Mr Dick, now, when Mr Dick, now, when Mr Dick, now, when out into the shop out into the shop feeling. She could mental condition. mental condition. that words like that words like that words like and squeezing the and squeezing the mental condition. cowboy came home, cowboy came home, We see world We see world We see world earned her fame, earned her fame, cowboy came home, AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION METAPOETICS THEATRE WORLDWIDE LITERATI MOBILIZATION NETWORK INTERNATIONAL BELLES LETTRES FEDERATION SUPERHEROES OF HUMANITIES --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:14:48 +0200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Todd Swift Subject: Times New Roman anti-empire anthology available at nthposition - the next stage of poetry protest Comments: To: "Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@wanadoo.fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May 27, 2003 Please Forward NTHPOSITION'S TIMES NEW ROMAN ANTHOLOGY NOW AVAILABLE ONLINE Nthposition.com - the London-based online magazine which was active in = promoting peaceful poetic protest during the anti-war campaign - has now = released a ground-breaking e-book anthology of poems against 21st = century empire. The anthology - which it is hoped will be shared with = poets and readers world-wide - is meant to continue to keep the issues = raised by US/UK/UN occupation of Iraq in the pubic eye. Mainstream media attention has drifted since the heady days of protest = in January-March, now nearly as much a mirage as the non-existent WOMD = used as a pretext for the illegal war on Iraq. By focusing on poems = which relate to themes of empire, colonization and anti-globalization, = TIMES NEW ROMAN provides a rallying cry to those not just opposed to = "war" but unchecked superpower expansion - and proposes a new role for = poets, when being against war is no longer enough in itself. The collection can be found at http://www.nthposition.com/timesnew.html = in a form suitable for reading onscreen. It also features powerful = never-before-seen photos from the 1968 protests in Paris in stark = counterpoint. A chapbook version - which can be easily printed, copied = and made into books for personal use or public readings - will be online = end-of-week. Everyone is encourage to copy and host these books on = their own sites. We would like to better our record, which saw = Nthposition's 100 Poets Against The War downloaded over 150,000 times, = inspiring readings and demonstrations from Tokyo to Toronto, Seattle to = Oxford, Moscow to New York. The poets in the collection are from Australia, Canada, Iraq, Ireland, = India, the UK and the United States, among other places. These poets = offer a spectrum of compelling voices, from emerging to well-known, from = traditional to avant-garde, and have all kindly donated their work to = this project. They are: Adam Dressler, Audrey Ogilvie, Barbara Jane Reyes, Brentley Frazer, = Catherine Kidd, Cathy Barber, Charles Bernstein, Todd Colby, Clive = Matson, Daphne Gottlieb, Eleni Zisimatos Auerbach, Eileen Tabios, Eva = Salzman, Fadel K Jabr, Fred Johnston, Geraldine Mills, Gloria Frym, H = Masud Taj, Hal Sirowitz, H=EAlen Thomas, Jason Dennie, Jeet Thayil, = Katerina Fretwell, John W Sexton, Ken Waldman, Kevin Higgins, Lorri = Neilsen Glenn, Vincent Tinguely, Lucy English, Luisa Igloria, Ryk = McIntyre, Michael Brown, Graywyvern, Moez Surani, Bob Holman, Paradise = aka Richard Moore, Patrick Chapman, Penn Kemp, Philip Hyams, Ranjit = Hoskot=E9, Richard Peabody, Rip Bulkeley, Robert Davidson, Ruth = Fainlight, Thad Rutkowski, rYAN kAMSTRA, Sampurna Chattarji, Allen = Cohen, Sharlie West, June Shenfield, Sherry Chandler, Sina Queyras, Sue = Littleton, Susan Millar Dumars, Thom World Poet, Tom Phillips, Tony = Brown, Tony Lewis-Jones, Vicki Hudspith, Winona Baker, Martin Galvin, = Charlotte Muse peace. Todd Todd Swift editor Times New Roman: Poets Oppose 21st Century Empire ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 05:14:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Renga - a collaboration by 11 artists Comments: cc: screenburn screenburn , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii "Renga - a collaboration by 11 artists". Based on the ancient Japanese verse form of the same name which translates as "linked verse", "Renga" involved 11 artists, 5 British, 5 US and one from Mexico, taking turns to continue a piece of work over a 2 month period. Artists were encouraged simply to respond honestly to the work so far and no requirement of stylistic unity was placed upon them. All contributions had to include a forward link and the pieces are now linked in a circle. It is possible to start anywhere in the sequence. Michael Szpakowski http://www.somedancersandmusicians.com/renga.html Lewis Lacook http://www.lewislacook.com/renga.html Joseph McElroy http://www.electrichands.com/renga/ Kate Southworth http://www.gloriousninth.com/renga.html Ivan Mejia http://www.tenedorparapescado.com/renga.html Curt Cloninger http://www.playdamage.org/renga/ Mark River http://www.tinjail.com/renga.html Brandon Barr http://www.texturl.net/renga/ Jess Loseby http://www.rssgallery.com/renga.swf Marc Garrett http://www.furtherfield.org/renga/ Ivan Pope http://www.ivanpope.com/renga/ NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 05:45:32 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Aaron Vidaver Subject: Renovating Guantanamo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit US plans death camp Herald Sun 26may03 http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6494000%255E2,00.html THE US has floated plans to turn Guantanamo Bay into a death camp, with its own death row and execution chamber. Prisoners would be tried, convicted and executed without leaving its boundaries, without a jury and without right of appeal, The Mail on Sunday newspaper reported yesterday. The plans were revealed by Major-General Geoffrey Miller, who is in charge of 680 suspects from 43 countries, including two Australians. The suspects have been held at Camp Delta on Cuba without charge for 18 months. General Miller said building a death row was one plan. Another was to have a permanent jail, with possibly an execution chamber. The Mail on Sunday reported the move is seen as logical by the US, which has been attacked worldwide for breaching the Geneva Convention on prisoners of war since it established the camp at a naval base to hold alleged terrorists from Afghanistan. But it has horrified human rights groups and lawyers representing detainees. They see it as the clearest indication America has no intention of falling in line with internationally recognised justice. The US has already said detainees would be tried by tribunals, without juries or appeals to a higher court. Detainees will be allowed only US lawyers. British activist Stephen Jakobi, of Fair Trials Abroad, said: "The US is kicking and screaming against any pressure to conform with British or any other kind of international justice." American law professor Jonathan Turley, who has led US civil rights group protests against the military tribunals planned to hear cases at Guantanamo Bay, said: "It is not surprising the authorities are building a death row because they have said they plan to try capital cases before these tribunals. "This camp was created to execute people. The administration has no interest in long-term prison sentences for people it regards as hard-core terrorists." Britain admitted it had been kept in the dark about the plans. A Downing St spokesman said: "The US Government is well aware of the British Government's position on the death penalty." ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 08:17:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rodney K Subject: Magee's __MS__ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Just catching up with the digests and wanted to second the recommendation for Mike Magee's terrific __MS__. The subject's deep, the beats phat, the cover freaky. A great work to seek and enjoy with summer here and the students gone. --Rodney ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:52:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Richards Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sam Johnson kicked the stone by way of refutation of Berkeley > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Shoemaker [SMTP:shoemak@FAS.HARVARD.EDU] > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 5:20 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: gravity's elbow (language and world) > > Every now and then this "language and world" thread comes around and I > always find myself tempted to try to say something about it (I haven't > seen everything that's been said this time around, but I'm thinking > particularly of the recent provocative exchange under the title "Astrology > and Science"). It seems to me that the fact that we shape our world > through language is indisputable, but it also seems to me that the matter > (have to get this pun out of my system at some point) becomes trickier > when we start trying to think about whether anything external to us exists > at all. Quantum physics often pops up, as it has here, as a reminder that > the presence of the observer fundamentally influences, or even > constitutes, whatever we might want to call "reality." And, of course, > there's also the question of perception itself, and the way our sensory > apparatus constructs our experience. Linguistics, physics, biology-work > in all these disciplines (leaving out others, like philosophy) confronts > us with the constructed, the partial, the relative. So why do I still > find myself resisting the strongest formulations of what I'll call by way > of shorthand the "languaged" view of reality? I guess some part of me > still gets a charge out of Berkeley kicking that stone and saying to the > radical skeptic "I refute thee thus." Of course the stone could be an > illusion: B. could be floating in a pod in the matrix dreaming both > stones and kicks. Nevertheless his body would be there, and if the AI's > wanted to keep him alive it would have to make concessions to that body's > biology, making sure it was fed (if only by that black soup simmered from > bodies of dead humans), and so on. If be were dreaming an illusion, it > still wouldn't be an illusion with no rules, coming out of nowhere (how > did he come to dream about stones, not to mention legs and feet in the > first place?) We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains > are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world > in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. > That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved under > particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these > "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? > > Immediately, I want to qualify my position by pointing out that the > scenario I've just described, or perhaps it's better to say my description > of it, is flawed in its reliance on a too crude opposition between "self" > and "external reality," "us" and "out there." To be sure, observer and > world are looped in the most complex fashion. But the exaggeration is > necessary, perhaps, to remind us that we are "formed" by the world even as > we also "form" it. Hayles's book on the posthuman, which I was reading > not too long ago, gives an interesting account of the role the frog brain > played in Maturana and Varela's formulation of autopoietic theory, which > Hayles describes as an "epistemological revolution" precisely because of > the crucial role it gives to the "observer." After studying froggie > perception in detail, and modeling the circuitry of the frog visual > system, M and V were able to see exactly how the frog brain constructed > its world, that frog's were constructed to see small, fast-moving objects > (like flies-for-dinner) but not large slow-moving objects (like Chilean > biologists). And, of course, we humans perform the same sort of > perceptual and cognitive tricks when "look" and "listen" and "feel" and > "smell" and "think." But we wouldn't do any of it the same way if we > started with different givens, if we (but who would "we" be?) had managed > somehow to evolve on Mars, say, rather than on Earth. Around the time of > that Social Text hoax scandal with the physicist who wrote the essay full > of made-up pomo science, I remember scientists cracking jokes about pomo > theorists falling out of windows and not be able to talk their way out of > gravity, and I thought the scientists had a pretty good point (even as I > also think that science is a culturally and historically and economically > constructed enterprise, and that the ideal of "objectivity" is often just > a crock). > > So there's gravity, as an example of those conditions and constraints I > mentioned before, and it happens to be a whole lot more "pressing" on > Earth than on Mars, and our bodies, including eyes, ears, hands, lips, > tongues, larynxes, brains, have evolved accordingly. Interesting, too, to > think about how morphology, the shape of things, inflects any force or law > we can imagine, including gravity itself, so that gravity on Earth is far > from constant, despite the "mean" figure one can pluck from a chart (32 > feet per second per second), depending on such factors as: the centrifugal > force due to the Earth's rotation; elevation on the earth's surface; tidal > variations (which depend on the movements of sun and moon, and which > therefore introduce time into the equation); and underground densities. > So, yes, the cosmos itself is embodied; it exists whether or not I think > it exists (though who knows, it may exist in a different way depending on > what I decide!). And when we posit a world made entirely of and by > language we may be performing something like the kind of operation we > carry out when we imagine ideal mathematical worlds. So the > "constructivist" approach that seems to start out from such historicist, > relativist premises can end up becoming a kind of idealism? Hmmm, > interesting, and that seems to be where I'm ending up for now, since it's > time to go feed the baby (and I'm pretty sure he does exist, with his > pre-languaged needs and desires, like hunger). > > For me at least, all this has implications of poetry, but I've run out of > steam, so I won't try to go into them here. I have worked intermittently > on a series of poems under the title IN/SIDE/OUT, a title intended to > suggest something about the complexities of internal/external relations. > > Steve ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:00:29 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Lewis LaCook Subject: Adonai Comments: cc: screenburn screenburn , "arc.hive" <_arc.hive_@lm.va.com.au>, cyberculture , cupcake kaleidoscope , Renee , rhizome , webartery , wryting MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.lewislacook.com/sound/LewisLaCook_Adonai.mp3 6.56MB 7:10 (a collaboration from BetaSpace (http://www.betaspace.org/index_flash.php) ) NEW!!!--sondheim.exe--artware text editor for Windows http://www.lewislacook.com/alanSondheim/sondheim.exe http://www.lewislacook.com/ tubulence artist studio: http://turbulence.org/studios/lacook/index.html --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gary Sullivan Subject: April-May topics Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Elsewhere: * Mozart & Salieri * Gray Matter * Barbara Henning's Aerial View/India * San Francisco in the 80s * Eileen Tabios's Gabriela Couple(t)s with the 21st Century * Notes on Artifice * In Search of Bollywood * Madhubala, Anarkali of Mughal-e-Azam http://garysullivan.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:33:50 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/27/03 12:22:24 PM, brichards@SHAWNEE.EDU writes: << We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains > are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world > in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. > That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved under > particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these > "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? > >> No argument, Steve. Of course the body--its physiology/senses--exercise a crucial influence/limitation. After all, language is cradled by brain matter. It's just that everything you've written above is inscribed as, well, language, as is external reality if we are to know it. Could you think these things without language? Nope. But I get from what you've written that you understand that. You wonder why, despite cogent arguments, you feel the need to resist. Interesting. Is such resistance less rooted in argument than in a psychology? Any ideas on this? I withdraw my promise to shut up. I love this stuff. Sue me. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:54:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: how2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Wouldnt it be nice to tell if someone was lieing? Econemy lie detectors. ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:00:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <> Kirby, This does not follow from that. Saussure's use of metaphors, organic or otherwise, does not do any injury to the view that meaning is a product of language. In fact, metaphors are a pretty good indication that "nature" is meaningful as nature precisely because its value/identity is produced by language. For Saussure, the signifier and signified are both parts of the word. Of course trees exist. But they are not "trees" until the word appears, until that word functions within language. The name, Kirby, for example, would be a combination of meaningless sounds if it were not part of a semiotic system. It certainly could not designate a person, especially since the word "person" wouldn't function as a meaningful concept either. It does follow from what Saussure and Lacan wrote that knowledge is semiotic. Consider Lacan's idea of the mirror je. There can be no "je' without the word, and the word signifies a signified that is a kind of fiction (the mirror image). This is a gross oversimplification of Lacan, but for the sake of space . . . . Even the subconscious, for Lacan, is linguistic. The idea that "the real is only known through its signifiers" does come from the people you mention, or rather is promoted by them since they were not the only scholars at work on the issue. Speech-act theory, of which Lyotard and Rorty make use (though they both move in and out), shifts the source of truth-value from a priori centers to performative/rhetorical dispersals. In other words, the "truth" of a statement (language again) depends not on the controlling and unifying power of reason, but on its persuasiveness. This amounts to a kind of consensus theory. TRUTH in the metaphysical sense takes a beating from these guys. Both men are radical pragmatists and interrogate reason/the rational to the point of dismissing it--at least they think they're dismissing it. Ironically, it is Derrida who argues for reason and truth, not as absolutes, but as provisional sites that one can never escape. He demonstrates that any attempt to dismantle metaphysical truth-value/reason must operate within the scaffolding of metaphysics/reason, and so ends up restoring (re-privileging) the very thing one is trying to undo. Any critique of logocentrism inevitably works within the borders of meta physics, simultaneously dismantling and restoring. This is indeterminacy, Kirby. American deconstructionists completely misread Derrida on this matter. Speech-act theory finds a part time comrade in Husserl who worships at the altar of the logos (a priori principles, god, etc.), unlike Lyotard and Rorty who take sledgehammers to it. For Husserl, truth is apprehended via a structure's repeatability (e.g., geometry). He argues that a structure's infinite repeatability reactivates the structure's self-identical, absolute origin, its a priori source which prefigures the structure and is available to a self-present comprehension (cf. Descartes). So contact with the origin is possible for Husserl who effectively argues for a stable logocentric development based on truths that cannot be questioned since thinking is impossible without them. Derrida does a pretty neat number on the guy. In sum, he points out that Husserl cannot make his arguments without language, cannot deploy his concepts without language (writing/inscription--of which speech is a variety since spoken "acts" must obey the same rules as writing in order to be meaningful, to be "speech"). So here we are again. Husserl's a priori "ideal" is possible (cogent) only within a system rooted in interdependency, indeterminacy. Sorry to take up so much of your time. I hope there's something new here for you, and I'm not just repeating myself. You did ask. I'll shut up now. Promise. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:14:09 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) In-Reply-To: <2D5E2F48C186CC4A8FE9E135479CB9B1332DF3@srv0mx1.intranet.shawnee.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Right, I forgot! I'm always appalled later by how I end up being when I write high-speed email. On Tue, 27 May 2003, Brian Richards wrote: > Sam Johnson kicked the stone by way of refutation of Berkeley > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Steven Shoemaker [SMTP:shoemak@FAS.HARVARD.EDU] > > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 5:20 PM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: gravity's elbow (language and world) > > > > Every now and then this "language and world" thread comes around and I > > always find myself tempted to try to say something about it (I haven't > > seen everything that's been said this time around, but I'm thinking > > particularly of the recent provocative exchange under the title "Astrology > > and Science"). It seems to me that the fact that we shape our world > > through language is indisputable, but it also seems to me that the matter > > (have to get this pun out of my system at some point) becomes trickier > > when we start trying to think about whether anything external to us exists > > at all. Quantum physics often pops up, as it has here, as a reminder that > > the presence of the observer fundamentally influences, or even > > constitutes, whatever we might want to call "reality." And, of course, > > there's also the question of perception itself, and the way our sensory > > apparatus constructs our experience. Linguistics, physics, biology-work > > in all these disciplines (leaving out others, like philosophy) confronts > > us with the constructed, the partial, the relative. So why do I still > > find myself resisting the strongest formulations of what I'll call by way > > of shorthand the "languaged" view of reality? I guess some part of me > > still gets a charge out of Berkeley kicking that stone and saying to the > > radical skeptic "I refute thee thus." Of course the stone could be an > > illusion: B. could be floating in a pod in the matrix dreaming both > > stones and kicks. Nevertheless his body would be there, and if the AI's > > wanted to keep him alive it would have to make concessions to that body's > > biology, making sure it was fed (if only by that black soup simmered from > > bodies of dead humans), and so on. If be were dreaming an illusion, it > > still wouldn't be an illusion with no rules, coming out of nowhere (how > > did he come to dream about stones, not to mention legs and feet in the > > first place?) We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains > > are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world > > in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. > > That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved under > > particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these > > "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? > > > > Immediately, I want to qualify my position by pointing out that the > > scenario I've just described, or perhaps it's better to say my description > > of it, is flawed in its reliance on a too crude opposition between "self" > > and "external reality," "us" and "out there." To be sure, observer and > > world are looped in the most complex fashion. But the exaggeration is > > necessary, perhaps, to remind us that we are "formed" by the world even as > > we also "form" it. Hayles's book on the posthuman, which I was reading > > not too long ago, gives an interesting account of the role the frog brain > > played in Maturana and Varela's formulation of autopoietic theory, which > > Hayles describes as an "epistemological revolution" precisely because of > > the crucial role it gives to the "observer." After studying froggie > > perception in detail, and modeling the circuitry of the frog visual > > system, M and V were able to see exactly how the frog brain constructed > > its world, that frog's were constructed to see small, fast-moving objects > > (like flies-for-dinner) but not large slow-moving objects (like Chilean > > biologists). And, of course, we humans perform the same sort of > > perceptual and cognitive tricks when "look" and "listen" and "feel" and > > "smell" and "think." But we wouldn't do any of it the same way if we > > started with different givens, if we (but who would "we" be?) had managed > > somehow to evolve on Mars, say, rather than on Earth. Around the time of > > that Social Text hoax scandal with the physicist who wrote the essay full > > of made-up pomo science, I remember scientists cracking jokes about pomo > > theorists falling out of windows and not be able to talk their way out of > > gravity, and I thought the scientists had a pretty good point (even as I > > also think that science is a culturally and historically and economically > > constructed enterprise, and that the ideal of "objectivity" is often just > > a crock). > > > > So there's gravity, as an example of those conditions and constraints I > > mentioned before, and it happens to be a whole lot more "pressing" on > > Earth than on Mars, and our bodies, including eyes, ears, hands, lips, > > tongues, larynxes, brains, have evolved accordingly. Interesting, too, to > > think about how morphology, the shape of things, inflects any force or law > > we can imagine, including gravity itself, so that gravity on Earth is far > > from constant, despite the "mean" figure one can pluck from a chart (32 > > feet per second per second), depending on such factors as: the centrifugal > > force due to the Earth's rotation; elevation on the earth's surface; tidal > > variations (which depend on the movements of sun and moon, and which > > therefore introduce time into the equation); and underground densities. > > So, yes, the cosmos itself is embodied; it exists whether or not I think > > it exists (though who knows, it may exist in a different way depending on > > what I decide!). And when we posit a world made entirely of and by > > language we may be performing something like the kind of operation we > > carry out when we imagine ideal mathematical worlds. So the > > "constructivist" approach that seems to start out from such historicist, > > relativist premises can end up becoming a kind of idealism? Hmmm, > > interesting, and that seems to be where I'm ending up for now, since it's > > time to go feed the baby (and I'm pretty sure he does exist, with his > > pre-languaged needs and desires, like hunger). > > > > For me at least, all this has implications of poetry, but I've run out of > > steam, so I won't try to go into them here. I have worked intermittently > > on a series of poems under the title IN/SIDE/OUT, a title intended to > > suggest something about the complexities of internal/external relations. > > > > Steve > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:20:47 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: just back from walking the blog MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" New this week on Texfiles: --a tribute to the wild honey press poems of Mark Weiss, featured poet at www.wildhoneypress.com --shopping with Fei --more tales of G & B & other e-hem-lines & em-broideries www.texfiles.blogspot.com enjoy! Chris Murray ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:25:00 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) In-Reply-To: <71.312f2382.2c04fb7e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Interesting questions, Bill. I'm afraid I don't have any deep insights into my own psychology here. I think I think I feel the need to resist because I don't very often, at least among poets, encounter the position that I'm trying to articulate. And I think the super- strong linguacentric position seems to lead too easily to a kind of hubristic feeling that we can invent *everything* through language (e.g., there was an old Langpo aphorism that went something like "language control = thought control = reality control"). I've been trying like hell not to quote Oppen here, since that's what I usually do in these situations, but oh well, here goes. I like a couple of statements of his (among many others). The first is that the poem must be concerned with a fact it did not create--the world. The second is that his job as a poet is to discover, not invent. But I'm not arguing for any kind of escape from language. I know it's what we've got--and it can be a lot of fun. Steve On Tue, 27 May 2003 Austinwja@AOL.COM wrote: > In a message dated 5/27/03 12:22:24 PM, brichards@SHAWNEE.EDU writes: > > << We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains > > > are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world > > > in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. > > > That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved under > > > particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these > > > "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? > > > >> > > No argument, Steve. Of course the body--its physiology/senses--exercise a > crucial influence/limitation. After all, language is cradled by brain matter. > It's just that everything you've written above is inscribed as, well, > language, as is external reality if we are to know it. Could you think these things > without language? Nope. But I get from what you've written that you > understand that. > > You wonder why, despite cogent arguments, you feel the need to resist. > Interesting. Is such resistance less rooted in argument than in a psychology? Any > ideas on this? > > I withdraw my promise to shut up. I love this stuff. Sue me. Best, Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > amazon.com > b&n.com > ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:42:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: Re: how2 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 5/27/03 10:54 AM, Alan Sondheim at sondheim@PANIX.COM wrote: > Wouldnt it be nice to tell if someone was lieing? > Econemy lie detectors. I'm lying right now. Can't you tell? M ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:45:27 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Virginia From The Bones Outward Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Furiously plotting to know what you're talking about, I went to see the Bishop with a fistful of cloth. The villagers had all returned to their homes. If you're all right, I am what they say I am. If not, their poems become mud and rain and tearing wind. Watch these gauges and let me know if anything goes wrong, OK? That old guy must be one of the translators. Individuals married and had children at random. Their poems are as mud and rain and tearing wind. I'm trying to see what is happening with the roiling mass o' bodies. Watch these gauges and let me know if anything goes wrong, OK? Someone from the Academy must have recognized me despite my disguise. Something haunts her grey stooped figure from the bones outward. If you're all right, I am what they say I am. Individuals married and had chillun of a random. I'm trying to see what's happening with the roiling mass o' bodies. The villagers had every one returned returned to their homes. If not, their poems would have become mud and rain and tearing wind. OK, watch these gauges and let me know if anything goes wrong. Something haunts her figure from the bones outward. The grease had seeped into the paper, staining it a dark brown. Furiously plotting to know what you're talking about, I went to see the Bishop with a fistful of cloth. _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:54:23 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Eileen Tabios Subject: Barbara Guest -- a Tribute MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Invitation From Kelsey St. Press: The UC Berkeley Art Museum and Pacific Film Archive in conjunction with=20 Kelsey St. Press, presents AUDACIOUS IMAGINATION: A TRIBUTE TO BARBARA GUEST Sunday, June 29=20 3:30-5:30 PM Reception to Follow Museum Theater,=20 Berkeley Art Museum 2625 Durant Ave, Berkeley, CA =20 Poets and visual artists celebrate the work of poet Barbara Guest on the=20 occasion of the publication of her two latest books: Forces of Imagination: Writing on Writing, and=20 Durer in the Window.=20 These two collections of essays on art and poetics illuminate Guest's use of= =20 painting from ancient Japanese Genji scrolls to Picasso, Delacroix to=20 Frankenthaler--as inspiration and example for her own work. She has written,= "the=20 physical extravagance of paint, of enormous canvases can cause a nurturing e= nvy in=20 the poet that prods his greatest possession, the imagination, into an=20 expansion of its borders." Guest's career spans five decades, from her assoc= iation=20 with the New York School in the 1950s to the present, and twenty-four books=20= of=20 poetry; in 1999 she was awarded the Frost Medal for Lifetime Achievement by=20= the=20 Poetry Society of America. Poet Ann Lauterbach will introduce the event followed by a number of=20 presenters, each one reading a favorite Guest poem selected from her entire=20= oeuvre.=20 Participants include the following poets and artists: Mary Abbott Mei-mei Berssenbrugge June Felter Robert Gluck Robert Hass Brenda Hillman Andrew Joron Kevin Killian Laurie Reid Camille Roy Jocelyn Saidenberg Africa Wayne Forces of Imagination: Writing on Writing (Kelsey St. Press) is a collection= =20 of Guest=B9s essays on poetics spanning three decades. John Ashbery has writ= ten=20 that these essays "are among the most inspiring works of their kind." Dure= r=20 in the Window (Roof Books) is a compilation of Guest's art reviews and essay= s=20 from the 1950s to the present accompanied by full-color reproductions of the= =20 relevant artworks.=20 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:30:40 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Bill, Don't worry about shutting up. My only fear is that you might cave. Don't do that. I enjoy tring to find an alternate route in behind this seemingly impregnable theory of yours. Just tell me: who's the best linguist, are who are the best set of linguists (school) that argue for an extra-linguistic reality that language merely ahem describes? Does that exist anywhere? It seemed to me that Lacan does argue that there are three levels of reality -- the real, the imaginary, and the symbolic. He posits the real, but argues that we are always in the imaginary. I saw a great interview with Jennifer Flowers once where she was talking about then-president Clinton, and how he called his testicles, "the boys." Here is the phallus, that is, the president of the country, the ruler, and all that, and his penis had a real to it (I am trying to get this down to biological reality all the time as I think that I then have the best chance of escaping the flight of the signifier), which means that either it does or it doesn't "function" in any given encounter with Ms. Flowers -- she claimed it always did, but it is technically within reason that it might at some point not come through for him -- so it is the real, that is the penis; the symbolic, which is the phallus, the great office-holder of the probably not-exclusively oral office -- and in between is the imaginary: the boys. Lacan seems to argue that all three of these levels do exist, but we are always on the spectrum flying between the real and the symbolic. The interview was conducted by Geraldo Rivera in about 1994. I was reading a lot of Lacan at the time. Would you agree with my breakdown of Clinton as seen by Ms. Flowers? That is, that there is a real penis, and a symbolic phallus, in this scenario? I'm not sure where to put "the boys" here, except into the imaginary. Would that be where you were to put them? It's not my fault that we end up back at the penis. It's Freud's fault. He started this mess, and it is because of him that this has become such a big thing in French theory. That is, if you can get the signifiers to change camps, then women can not only hold the phallus, as in Jennifer Flower's case, they can actually represent it, if that's right, such as a judge like Sandra Day O'Connor being able to bang the gavel right there with Clarence Thomas. The gavel being the symbolic phallus. Or the scepter. This began with politics, I think -- and the use of psychoanalysis -- to get the web of language to move in new directions, so that it didn't discriminate against anyone on the basis of biology. Simone de B's Second Sex is all about this, too. But I think that in order to do this, they have to shove biology well into the background. I'm confused as to how far this has gone, and how far it ought to go, but it's the same thing that we're still arguing about in the culture: should women serve front-line duty in combat, should women be firemen, etc. That's the real USE of this, so far as I can see, and perhaps the reason it's held to so strongly. It's not just a technical point at all, right? It wasn't with Berkeley either, but he was trying to defend another set of goods having to do with his duties as a bishop. -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:36:25 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Po Joans Jones Langston...That Was.. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I thought the Joans poem packed a wallop. If I hadn't read the commentary, I would have thought he was praising Langston Hughes for creating such a strong rich world, but you're saying that he actually was criticizing Hughes for his limited vocabulary and range of subject matter? That's even more interesting. Did Joans consider himself to be a surrealist? I know that he knew Breton, and in the biographical piece on the crowd he was said to have known the origins of the Max ERnst image of the 100 heads. Was he then a student/practitioner of surrealism? Is that why he was criticizing Langston Hughes -- for his social realistic Marxist aesthetics? He does say at the end of the poem that he was the greatest black poet. Is he criticizing then black poetry (or even protest poetry) generally? -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:14:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory/adding the Cremaster Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu In-Reply-To: <3ED3BCE0.88B930B@delhi.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Kirby, if you can handle, so to speak, a recommendation, I suggest you get yourself into the Guggenheim - or if you are near San Francisco, the Castro Theater - for Mathew Barney's Cremaster 3 - which is, I think, an aesthetically astonishing and imaginatively exhaustive interior exploration of the "heroic" life of the American phallus via the interior (mostly) of New York's Chrysler building. If Hart Crane's celebration of the Brooklyn Bridge is a hymn to the American industrial sublime, the Chrysler Building (fiftie's model cars crushing and vanquishing Gary Gilmore's dark hearse in the otherwise empty art deco lobby, Richard Serra as mega builder/demonic father in the tower, and the Beuys-esque dark comedic Barney ascent via elevator shaft cables) is the Bridge's sublime dark inverse. The work definitely gives a much greater "epic fix" on whatever might define male gender possibilities and terrors than anything else I know on the contemporary visual level or perhaps any other medium. In the Bay Area the Castro - which is just the right interior architecture for the film - is showing 3-4 through Thursday, and the other two sections subsequently. I'd be interested in other takes on Barney's adventure. The work is so lit-cultural-poetic - it will be nice to know if there is some good writing about the work by poets rather than folks who keep inside the limits of art crit. Stephen V on 5/27/03 12:30 PM, Kirby Olson at olsonjk@DELHI.EDU wrote: > Bill, > > Don't worry about shutting up. My only fear is that you might cave. Don't do > that. I enjoy > tring to find an alternate route in behind this seemingly impregnable theory > of yours. Just > tell me: who's the best linguist, are who are the best set of linguists > (school) that argue > for an extra-linguistic reality that language merely ahem describes? Does > that exist > anywhere? > > It seemed to me that Lacan does argue that there are three levels of reality > -- the real, the > imaginary, and the symbolic. He posits the real, but argues that we are > always in the > imaginary. > > I saw a great interview with Jennifer Flowers once where she was talking about > then-president > Clinton, and how he called his testicles, "the boys." Here is the phallus, > that is, the > president of the country, the ruler, and all that, and his penis had a real to > it (I am trying > to get this down to biological reality all the time as I think that I then > have the best > chance of escaping the flight of the signifier), which means that either it > does or it doesn't > "function" in any given encounter with Ms. Flowers -- she claimed it always > did, but it is > technically within reason that it might at some point not come through for him > -- so it is the > real, that is the penis; the symbolic, which is the phallus, the great > office-holder of the > probably not-exclusively oral office -- and in between is the imaginary: the > boys. > > Lacan seems to argue that all three of these levels do exist, but we are > always on the > spectrum flying between the real and the symbolic. > > The interview was conducted by Geraldo Rivera in about 1994. I was reading a > lot of Lacan at > the time. > > Would you agree with my breakdown of Clinton as seen by Ms. Flowers? > > That is, that there is a real penis, and a symbolic phallus, in this scenario? > > I'm not sure where to put "the boys" here, except into the imaginary. Would > that be where you > were to put them? > > It's not my fault that we end up back at the penis. It's Freud's fault. He > started this > mess, and it is because of him that this has become such a big thing in French > theory. That > is, if you can get the signifiers to change camps, then women can not only > hold the phallus, > as in Jennifer Flower's case, they can actually represent it, if that's right, > such as a judge > like Sandra Day O'Connor being able to bang the gavel right there with > Clarence Thomas. The > gavel being the symbolic phallus. Or the scepter. This began with politics, > I think -- and > the use of psychoanalysis -- to get the web of language to move in new > directions, so that it > didn't discriminate against anyone on the basis of biology. Simone de B's > Second Sex is all > about this, too. > > But I think that in order to do this, they have to shove biology well into the > background. > I'm confused as to how far this has gone, and how far it ought to go, but it's > the same thing > that we're still arguing about in the culture: should women serve front-line > duty in combat, > should women be firemen, etc. That's the real USE of this, so far as I can > see, and perhaps > the reason it's held to so strongly. > > It's not just a technical point at all, right? > > It wasn't with Berkeley either, but he was trying to defend another set of > goods having to do > with his duties as a bishop. > > -- Kirby ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:06:55 +1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Tranter Subject: Innovation and "uniform networks" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ...Might this have something to say to us about the effect that clustering= =20 in groups has on literary innovation? (for "entrepreneur" read "poet") _____________________________ Ruef has found that disparate information and its transmission are keys to= =20 innovation. "Weak ties=97of acquaintanceship, of colleagues who are not=20 friends=97provide non-redundant information and contribute to innovation=20 because they tend to serve as bridges between disconnected social groups,"= =20 he says. "Weak ties allow for more experimentation in combining ideas from= =20 disparate sources and impose fewer demands for social conformity than do=20 strong ties." Entrepreneurs who spend more time with a diverse network of strong and weak= =20 ties=97of family, friends, business colleagues, advisors, acquaintances, and= =20 complete strangers=97are three times more likely to innovate than=20 entrepreneurs stuck within a uniform network. "Diverse networks and sources= =20 of information encourage the diffusion of non-redundant information and=20 thus stimulate creativity," says Ruef. In terms of the entrepreneurial team= =20 itself, "the more entrepreneurs you have, the more likely you are to have=20 innovation because people come in with different backgrounds and=20 perspectives." Ruef cautions, though, that even if complete strangers spend= =20 a lot of time together, the ties among them soon will be the equivalent of= =20 strong ties and drown out the benefits of non-redundant information. Ruef also has found that people tend to be more creative and innovative=20 when they are new to an industry. "When I examined the sources of career=20 experiences," he says, "I found strong evidence to suggest that the longer= =20 entrepreneurs have been in the industry in which they seek to make a=20 creative contribution, the less innovative they are." Career tenure is not= =20 a bad thing necessarily, he points out, because extensive experience can=20 contribute to more profitable business in other ways. "Veterans just don't= =20 come up with wacky or creative ideas that can really spark a new industry. "The relevance of this study to entrepreneurs," says Ruef, "is that it=20 helps them identify how they can be creative and innovative, which in my=20 mind is a goal for a lot of entrepreneurs, who often seek creativity for=20 its own sake, independently of material gain. The value of the study to=20 society is that it identifies patterns of socialization that may contribute= =20 to innovation and wealth creation." MARY PETRUSEWICZ Research Paper: Strong Ties, Weak Ties, and Islands: Structural and=20 Cultural Predictors of Organizational Innovation, Martin Ruef, Industrial=20 and Corporate Change, 11: 427-49, 2002 Additional ...borrowed from the Stanford School of Business website at=20 http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/ -- John Tranter, Editor, Jacket magazine ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:04:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Philosophy Text: "What is Everything in the Universe?" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Philosophy Text: "What is Everything in the Universe?" http://www.everythingintheuniv.com/ http://www.everythingintheuniv.com/about_norm_sperling.htm http://www.everythingintheuniv.com/chopsticks.htm if the <>universe is <>everything, and the <>universe is expanding, <>... if the <>universe is <>everything, and the <>universe is expanding, what is it expanding into? Although God made <>everything in the <>universe Although God made <>everything in the <>universe, Satan is haughty and debased to the point of placing himself at the same level as God and denouncing His supremacy <>... Welcome to... This page is about me and why <>everything I like is great. <>... Is your page good enough to bear the coveted "Best Damn Web Page In The <>Universe" icon? <>... <>... Every book I have seen has defined the <>universe as "<>everything". <>... Of course, not <>everything in the <>universe is expanding or "stretching" in this way. <>... Max Tegmark's library: ``theory of <>everything'' h2g2 is the unconventional guide to life, the <>universe and <>everything, a guide that's written by visitors to the website, creating an organic and evolving <>... The meaning of life, the <>universe and <>everything <>... As I said in "Is there a reason for our existence?", <>everything in the <>universe is linked, every individual thing was formed from the Big Bang singularity. <>... <>Everything you need to know about <>everything in the <>Universe including, stars, planets, comets, asteroids, meteors, black holes, space explorations, technology <>... Laverdas the <>universe and <>everything, click here to enter, TO ENTER, click here to enter, http://www.everythingforever.com/ http://solonor.com/archives/cat_life_the_universe_and_everything.html http://everythingforever.com/ Life, the <>Universe, and <>everything Life, the <>Universe, and <>everything. Thoughts on life, the Middle East, and just about <>everything else. <>... http://solon.cma.univie.ac.at/~neum/everything.html Explore the <>Universe. ``Test <>everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.'' (1 Thess. 5:21-22). General Resources. Google <>... Warning: The Answer to Life the <>Universe and <>Everything. Keywords: Kill <>... 1 answer to life <>universe and <>everything(number)?? by VAMSI <>... http://www.chessvariants.com/42.dir/life-and-everything.html <>... that have occurred during the past 13 years in the quest for a Theory of <>Everything-a unified theory that would explain how <>everything in the <>universe works. <>... Corona with <>everything FS : RC <>Universe! The Ultimate RC forum Corona with <>everything FS : RC <>Universe! The place to buy,sell,trade and discuss RC! RC <>Universe! Click HERE for the Ultimate RC <>... <>... we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it is bound fast by a thousand invisible cords that cannot be broken to <>everything in the <>universe." JOHN MUIR <>... answer to life <>universe and <>everything(number)?? Question: answer to life <>universe and <>everything(number)?? Forum: WWW <>... Sep 13. Add, to: "answer to life <>universe and <>everything(number)??". <>... the answer to life the <>universe and <>everything the answer to life the <>universe and <>everything. Forum: WWW Style Re: Here <>... Add, to: "the answer to life the <>universe and <>everything". <>... Life, the <>Universe, and <>everything else... Life, the <>Universe, and <>everything else... March 2003. Sun, Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri, Sat. 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22. 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29. <>... <>... Or do you think other contexts make more sense, such as materialism (<>everything in the <>universe is merely a physical entity), mentalism (<>everything in the <>... <>... of big subjects under the heading of "nothing" and tries to prove that what Cole refers to as "nothing" is really where <>everything in the <>universe comes from. <>... The answer to Life, the <>Universe, & <>Everything The answer to <>everything, Life, the <>Universe, and <>Everything is... Douglas Adams <>... life, the <>Universe and <>Everything=BD uglas Ada theu <>Universe and <>Everything=BF=BD Dou . <>. Life, the <>universe and. <>everything. The <>Univers Givs Us <>Everything. Zeno Master Seung Sahn. <>... (Laughter) If everyone gives to each other, then there's no problem. The <>universe gives us <>everything<>... <>... Stephen Wolfram thesis isthat. <>everything in the <>universe, from quantum events to macroeconomics, can be modeled as cellular automata imp arrays of <>... The Secret of life, the <>universe, and <>everything, REVEALED!!! The Source. The Secret of life, the <>universe, and <>everything, REVEALED!!! Damnit! Do what I say!!! It's 42, read the Hitch hikers <>... <>... and since the light from all stars also converges or can be seen from any point in the <>Universe this means we are a small part of <>everything in the <>Universe. <>... The quest for a theory of <>everything <>... miis article <>... you have intriguing questions about the other grand puzzles of the <>universe? <>... the answer to life the <>universe and <>everything the answer to life the <>universe and <>everything. Forum: WWW Style Re: Here <>... Add, to: "the answer to life the <>universe and <>everything". <>... http://www.mat.univie.ac.at/~neum/everything.html Explore the <>Universe. ``Test <>everything. Hold on to the good. Avoid <>everything. <>... <>... Stephen Wolfram thesis is that. every kind of evil.'' (1 Thess. 5:21-22). General Resources. Google <>... <>... The self-distribution of S, called hology, follows from the containment principle, ie the tautological fact that <>everything within the real <>universe must be <>... Andrea's Weblog: Mathematics, the <>universe and <>everything <>... Mathematics, the <>universe and <>everything. Deutsche Version. From some comments and suggestions on math and education I gather that <>... <>... Science and nature Earth, the <>universe and <>everything Tim Radford takes an invigorating dip into books from Nick Lane, John S Rigden and Philip Ball that show <>... ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:04:34 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: The Fourfold Path of the Heideggerian Universe MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE The Fourfold Path of the Heideggerian Universe ... tai'ngauru. Hawaiian, kahi , lua , kolu , ha , lima, ono, hi ... 1, kahi , 'ekahi, 'akahi, 'umi ku-ma- kahi , na. 2, lua , 'elu ... HAWAIIAN, kahi , lua , kolu , ha , lima, ono, hiku, walu, iw ... tai'ngauru. Hawaiian, kahi , lua , kolu , ha , lima, ono, hi ... Five=3Delima Six=3Deono Seven=3Dehiku Eight=3Dewal u Nine=3Delwa Ten= =3Dumi E ... iwi patahalaha keia, a he lahilahi, me he huina- kolu la ke . ... ka puuwai moi, ua hui pu ia ke koko ma kahi .hookahi, a ... O ... tagaloga, is=C3=A1, dalaw=C3=A1, tatl=C3=B3, =C3=A1pat, lim=C3=A1, = =C3=A1nim, pit=C3=B3, wal ... Ma ke kenekulia 'umiku=C2=B5ma=C2=B5 kolu , hau'oli loa ka po'e ... = Ei ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... i once more: 1. hana hou one: 1. kahi ; `ekahi; ho ... oe; `o ... O ka lua , 'o ia ke a'o ... O ke kolu o n=C4=81 ... O kekahi ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... kanaka pakele o ko Kaluaopalena po'e, 'o ka po'e ma kahi l=C4=81'a ... k=C3=B4 nane: 1. bright; brilliant ka: 1. the kahi : 1. one ... v ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... thing very much.". Numerals. 1 - kahi 2 - lua 3 - kolu ... mua ka papa o n=C3=A5 akua nui, 'o ka lua ka papa ... n=C3=A5 k= =C3=A5nak ... Na ke kahi , na ka lua , na ke kolu , na ka h=C3=A4, na ka lima, ... 1, kahi , 'ekahi, 'akahi, 'umi ku-ma- kahi , na. 2, lua , 'elu ... Makani ino Makau M koi Malama moku Maluhia Mea ho=E2=80=99okaumaha Me= k ... tahi, kotahi Fijian: dua Hawaiian: kahi Malagasy: isa ... Ma ... la hele ae la laua iwaho o Mamala, i ka lua o ka mapuna hoe ko ... ono, `eono. sechs. `ekolu, kolu . drei. walu, `ewalu. acht. .. ... E kahi , E lua , E kolu , E ha , E lima, E 'ono, E hiku, E w ... . bilang. isa. -. one. kahi . satu. isa. isa, iray. hito. two. ... Lewa Hiku-alua, lewa Hiku- kolu 1897. ... Kau i ka moku o Lu ... Lewa Hiku-alua, lewa Hiku- kolu 1897. ... Kau i ka moku o Lu ... I ke kolu o ka l=C3=A4 ala hou maila =C3=BFo ia e like ... o kou = alo ... =E6=95=B0=E5=AD=97. kahi =EF=BC=9A =EF=BC=91, ono =EF=BC=9A =EF=BC= =96. lua =EF=BC=9A =EF=BC=92, hiku =EF=BC=9A =EF=BC=97 ... mauna, =E5=B1=B1, wai, =E8=AA=B0=EF=BC=9F, lani, =E5=A4=A9=E5=9B=BD, = hana, =E4=BB=95=E4=BA=8B, mi ... Hawaiian. Russian. Tagalog. 1. moja. e' kahi . "ah-DEEN&quo ... 10, `umi, 30, kanakolu, 11, `umiku-ma- kahi , 40, kanaha-, 12, ` ... Aroha! A comparison of Maori and Hawaiian numbers: Maori, Hawaii ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... Mytynamitvkeke bpacuso vu rifi kahi . Wowysizyjobovufyxazahuja ... Hawaiian. Russian. Tagalog. 1. moja. e' kahi . "ah-DEEN&quo ... 10, `umi, 30, kanakolu, 11, `umiku-ma- kahi , 40, kanaha-, 12, ` ... Aroha! A comparison of Maori and Hawaiian numbers: Maori, Hawaii ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... Mytynamitvkeke bpacuso vu rifi kahi . Wowysizyjobovufyxazahuja ... Hawaiian. Russian. Tagalog. 1. moja. e' kahi . "ah-DEEN&quo ... 10, `umi, 30, kanakolu, 11, `umiku-ma- kahi , 40, kanaha-, 12, ` ... Aroha! A comparison of Maori and Hawaiian numbers: Maori, Hawaii ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... Mytynamitvkeke bpacuso vu rifi kahi . Wowysizyjobovufyxazahuja ... Hawaiian. Russian. Tagalog. 1. moja. e' kahi . "ah-DEEN&quo ... 10, `umi, 30, kanakolu, 11, `umiku-ma- kahi , 40, kanaha-, 12, ` ... Aroha! A comparison of Maori and Hawaiian numbers: Maori, Hawaii ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... Mytynamitvkeke bpacuso vu rifi kahi . Wowysizyjobovufyxazahuja ... Hawaiian. Russian. Tagalog. 1. moja. e' kahi . "ah-DEEN&quo ... 10, `umi, 30, kanakolu, 11, `umiku-ma- kahi , 40, kanaha-, 12, ` ... Aroha! A comparison of Maori and Hawaiian numbers: Maori, Hawaii ... The stars of Na Hiku are individually designated by numbers: Hik ... Mytynamitvkeke bpacuso vu rifi kahi . Wowysizyjobovufyxazahuja ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:40:26 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory Comments: To: olsonjk@delhi.edu MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Kirby, I think I recall that this discussion had its roots in the end of theory and theorists where I would have to place Freud and Lacan psychologically (speaking, so-to-speak?) along with big name philosophers and linguists. As Nick agreed (I don't necessarily need to include you in this extreme statement, Nick), these writing and language-based theoreticians are not really of much interest in the REALITY of day-to-day practical therapy or healing. Thus, it is quite serendipitous that this came across my screen from another list today http://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit as implicit knowledge is part of burgeoning hard-science biased experimental research literature documenting the rEALITY of the preconscious. [it might be that there is an 'unconscious' or preconscious bias toward languge-based thought on this list? In any event, try it, you might like it] I think Antin, for example, should be read along with this literature. I also think the stuff Pennebaker is working on is quite relevant, as well . I wish I had the energy to put something together here but it is really quite readable stuff (if you ignore or use a blank marker for the scientific terms) but I just may be a weirdo in that I anticipate the arrival of the new Journal of Clinical and Consuting Psychology as I anticipate the latest poetics compendium. tom bell ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:55:07 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: The Practice of Theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/27/03 3:30:03 PM, olsonjk@DELHI.EDU writes: << Lacan seems to argue that all three of these levels do exist, but we are always on the spectrum flying between the real and the symbolic. >> Yes--that's the mirror bit. << It wasn't with Berkeley either, but he was trying to defend another set of goods having to do with his duties as a bishop. >> Yep. He did cheat. For one, he does not apply the same doubt to god's existence beyond the idea that he does to everything else. I agree with you--politics, politics. <> I'm not sure if we agree or disagree on this. I don't see how biology has been shoved into the background. Language theory doesn't really change anything. We still live in a world of chairs and tables. It just explains how things mean. <> Don't know of any. That's pre-20th century. I agree with everything you said about Clinton's penis. But maybe I shouldn't be so quick to agree. I've never actually seen Clinton's penis. I have no interest in Clinton's penis. All I have to go on is Flowers' "WORD!!!!" for it. Just kidding. I never said nothing was real. Again, the difference is between what is "purely" external to language (noumena? Hume's Impressions?) and its meaning/mediation by language. We live in the imaginary, right? We are bound to and by that mediation. How does one escape this world of words? I guess for most of us regressing to infancy is out of the question. Death probably works, but I'm against it. << My only fear is that you might cave. >> Ha Ha! Yeah, right. Wait a minute! What is this feeling? A collapse? An philosophical implosion? Am I caving?!! AM I CAVING?!!? ...................................................Nah. Best always, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:55:34 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/27/03 2:32:10 PM, shoemak@FAS.HARVARD.EDU writes: << And I think the super- strong linguacentric position seems to lead too easily to a kind of hubristic feeling that we can invent *everything* through language (e.g., there was an old Langpo aphorism that went something like "language control = thought control = reality control"). >> Doesn't everything? Romanticism was twisted into Napoleon. Nietzsche was pretzeled into Hitler. Marx into Stalin. In the early nineties there were claims from some quarters that deconstruction was a complement to 80s conservatism. That one kept me laughing for quite a while, especially since deconstruction provides for the necessity, the inevitability, of multiculturalism. Imagine a methodology whose project is the interrogation of all hierarchies (including those that inform political discourse) being so drastically misrepresented. Did they take us for fools?!!? Argggghhhh!!!!!! The idea that anyone, or any group, can control the structural evolution of language is silly. But that doesn't stop some people from trying and from deluding themselves that they've succeeded. Every attempt to limit discourse--to set the agenda, so to speak--results in the roaring return of the banished. But of course you're right to worry. Few things more dangerous than the halfass manipulations of complete asses. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:04:02 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ben Basan Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) & Cremaster too! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit As usual, I have very little time to contribute to this rather fascinating discussion. But I couldn't resist! What is compelling about this thread? First, no, we couldn't think "these things" without language, but the question, I thought was could we think without language. Following the arguments of Maturana & Varela, everything thinks - is cognizant - not only without language, but without a brain! This relatively new "discovery" has led to those in AI to dramatically rethink the possibilities of AI.. thus we now have ALife, etc. No doubt language is important, but we have to consider it along with everything else we organisms are doing. So much for language being in brain matter. Following on from that, Bill's post presupposes a 'knowable' external reality, as though there is this absolute in the first place. Santiago theory also posits the idea of "bringing forth" the world, rather than the world just existing, which would help get us out of all these dates dualisms, would it not? Anyhow, wouldn't language in this case be not referring to something "in the world" but something we experience as the world, determined by our physiological structure, environment, etc? AS for the Cremaster. Interesting someone bought this up here. I just spent the weekend arguing over Matt Barney's project at the Nippori Bathhouse. Now, only one of us had actually been to see his work, the rest of us were basing our opinions on the HUGE silver tome that has flooded (walled in?) Tokyo art book shops. Basically, I don't really like what he's doing at all. It seems to be all spectacle and shock, and short on ideas, rather like the YBA's. The glossy book just reinforces the shock value for me. The view of the Cremaster as the American Phallus is entertaining. However, since male gender possibilities are hardly new, I haven't worked out why a mutilated version should be of any more interest. I did Rocky Horror in my teens. If you want poetic art projects, why not check out Eduardo Kac? http://www.ekac.org I know of one listee who has written about him. Sorry if my reply seems a little abbreviated. -Ben No argument, Steve. Of course the body--its physiology/senses--exercise a crucial influence/limitation. After all, language is cradled by brain matter. It's just that everything you've written above is inscribed as, well, language, as is external reality if we are to know it. Could you think these things without language? Nope. But I get from what you've written that you understand that. You wonder why, despite cogent arguments, you feel the need to resist. Interesting. Is such resistance less rooted in argument than in a psychology? Any ideas on this? I withdraw my promise to shut up. I love this stuff. Sue me. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:52:35 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: dispersion In-Reply-To: <200305280411.h4S4BMj03830@ida.host4u.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit excellent piece, alan. i don't agree with some of it, as you might surmise, but the drift and topics are things i also have been thinking about, and your piece addresses many of these eloquently. yes, the work is peripheral to most. but is it to you? i don't think it is to me. it is to those who primarily seek an occassion for their own speech. of course, the lists are, by their nature, dialogical and no individual post stands out like no letter on a page stands out. i wonder how much work it would take to make some software that would crawl a list, download all the posts, and then provide an excellent inteface into the list so that it was sortable and searchable (via an index) and the links worked and so on. and so that you could also delete posts. though if it's searchable nicely and sortable via name and thread and all that, it becomes less necessary to provide things like deletion in order to provide an interesting literary experience. many lists are now searchable and sortable, etc, but usually the interfaces are not particularly rich and the operations are slow. a good spider and a good index builder would be the first steps here. i'm using atomz for my search engine on my site, and that builds a good index... anyway, you see the drift, toward creating something that could go on a CD, say, and would provide an interesting literary experience, a list reader. could also have it be able to connect to the list, if it were ongoing, and check for new posts, perhaps. a fundable project. even a commercial product, perhaps, in the end, if it were general enough to be used on just about any list. ja > Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 00:28:52 -0400 > From: Alan Sondheim > Subject: Dispersion > > Dispersion > > > The spews and emissions of the universe are of fundamental consequence; > from plasmas through aerodynamics, particle fields through one-to-many > electromagnetic transmitters, dispersion characterizes the world. Objects > are temporary at best; objects cohere, disperse, decay, splinter, > dissolve, discharge, as in decathexis. What cathects is temporary at best; > 'defuge' is a basic process that sloughs attentivity and value. As groups > form and dissolve, temporary genidentity structures local flows; one > participates, drops out, identifies, decathects, and so forth, from birth > to death; after death, the aura of effects transforms and continues, while > the name and provenance become increasingly remote. > > Dispersion occurs on-line and off (Rheingold's Smart Mobs); packet > transmission itself is both dispersion and coalescence. If a site does not > acknowledge, error messages may be returned to the transmitter, as if they > were growing fainter (they do not) with each passing communication, until > the time limit is reached; then everything stops. Lost messages constantly > float, as do disconnected webpages, dead-ended links, any forms of > interruptions within the temporary flows and stases that constitute both > inter- and intranets. > > Writing or programming or producing within these spaces, these paradigms, > (which themselves are in flux) is problematic; hardware and software, > languages and protocols, die out. There is an apocalyptic air to what can > only be labeled _dispersion production,_ an air of disappearance which > pervades the work produced; nothing is as permanent as modernism. What > remains is the remnants or residue of audience, for whom the work is > peripheral; instead, it is the political economy of the structure and > state-space of the work, in terms of communality and accessibility, that > determines its relative value. Genre, typology, typification, become > irrelevant, replaced by situational analysis. What is functional is the > occasion and occasioning of speech. > > And speech is not only _parole,_ momentary enunciation; it parasitizes > writing and inscription. Inscriptive production problematizes and > occasions dispersion production; dispersion production problematizes and > occasions inscriptive production through speech and other communicative > acts. > > We are mistaken to the extent we desire the occasion to override the > occasional. The occasional is the kernel (to the extent that the kernel > absorbs identity) of infinity; the disappearance of identity is also the > disappearance of all products of labor, piecemeal or otherwise. That is > why we say, "Nothing matters at all, except you!" "I am nothing without my > fans!" "The use-value is replaced by the exchange value!" "You are > everything to me!" ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:57:51 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: & Cremaster too! In-Reply-To: <20030528050402.891601577C@smtp3.att.ne.jp> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I should add that Cremaster is also full of humor or, I guess the fancy word, the "comedic." Which belies the narcissistic, or "spectacle shock" lang used to dismiss it - which was my impulse before I saw it. And I think it is also a mis-configuration to define or delimit the work as a "gay' property (perhaps akin to an expensive variation on Herb Ritts). Granted the work is not without homo-erotic tension, but the intellectual, literary and aesthetic smarts here are much more ambitious - taking on issues of male conquest in a larger American frame of which what is gay and androgynous are but significant elements of the film's drama and history. Still new to his films, I would like to hear more from others who are more familiar with what they see is going on. Stephen V on 5/27/03 10:04 PM, Ben Basan at pimetrum@ZAD.ATT.NE.JP wrote: > AS for the Cremaster. Interesting someone bought this up here. I just spent > the weekend arguing over Matt Barney's project at the Nippori Bathhouse. Now, > only one of us had actually been to see his work, the rest of us were basing > our opinions on the HUGE silver tome that has flooded (walled in?) Tokyo art > book shops. Basically, I don't really like what he's doing at all. It seems to > be all spectacle and shock, and short on ideas, rather like the YBA's. The > glossy book just reinforces the shock value for me. The view of the Cremaster > as the American Phallus is entertaining. However, since male gender > possibilities are hardly new, I haven't worked out why a mutilated version > should be of any more interest. I did Rocky Horror in my teens. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 18:08:01 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: Re: & Cremaster too! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I hope, like Stephen and Ben, that others can contribute here. Stephen says he's new to Barney's films, Ben reports on a discussion in which only one person had seen the work. My experience is similar in that I spent two and half hours at the Guggenheim only to realise I needed to spend a week there. First because the films seem to be at the heart of the projects and they'r not programmed so that you can see them in a day or two. The installations are like spin offs or displays of props etc. The other thing is that the work is extremely ambitious and complex, obsessive in many ways--indeed in these respects it is about as far removed from the YBAs as you can get. I should say I've seen many videos and sculpture shows and the reason why I wanted to go the the Guggenheim show is I found his work consistently compelling visually, I can go on, but that should be it for now. Wystan -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Vincent [mailto:steph484@PACBELL.NET] Sent: Wednesday, 28 May 2003 5:58 p.m. To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Re: & Cremaster too! I should add that Cremaster is also full of humor or, I guess the fancy word, the "comedic." Which belies the narcissistic, or "spectacle shock" lang used to dismiss it - which was my impulse before I saw it. And I think it is also a mis-configuration to define or delimit the work as a "gay' property (perhaps akin to an expensive variation on Herb Ritts). Granted the work is not without homo-erotic tension, but the intellectual, literary and aesthetic smarts here are much more ambitious - taking on issues of male conquest in a larger American frame of which what is gay and androgynous are but significant elements of the film's drama and history. Still new to his films, I would like to hear more from others who are more familiar with what they see is going on. Stephen V on 5/27/03 10:04 PM, Ben Basan at pimetrum@ZAD.ATT.NE.JP wrote: > AS for the Cremaster. Interesting someone bought this up here. I just spent > the weekend arguing over Matt Barney's project at the Nippori Bathhouse. Now, > only one of us had actually been to see his work, the rest of us were basing > our opinions on the HUGE silver tome that has flooded (walled in?) Tokyo art > book shops. Basically, I don't really like what he's doing at all. It seems to > be all spectacle and shock, and short on ideas, rather like the YBA's. The > glossy book just reinforces the shock value for me. The view of the Cremaster > as the American Phallus is entertaining. However, since male gender > possibilities are hardly new, I haven't worked out why a mutilated version > should be of any more interest. I did Rocky Horror in my teens. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 02:17:56 -0400 Reply-To: baratier@megsinet.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Baratier Organization: Pavement Saw Press Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bos could be lying to us as method to build coin over Sam or as one oft does in haste. Does this make him an us? Be well David Baratier, Editor Pavement Saw Press PO Box 6291 Columbus OH 43206 USA http://pavementsaw.org ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 02:47:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: MULTICOPY-DELETION #122 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit THE CYNTHIA RICE COLLECTION www.advancedliterarysciences.com MULTICOPY-DELETION #122 [excerpt] I binary encoding if it chicagoans you the sequence stands the critically but before you your or I out your brains or birth he was you back into this resources on together with points I am undecided I america its the metaphysical secular music on cleared up I that you america its back what I would fain the sequence catherine drily then fell weeping rocking with her over her illinois u.s what that laid the reputation wasn't she for her won't we my lambkin when we are most important extremely on taunted television the art the art gerard igor you this folly this the sequence he if not followed by matrimonial made him such particularly in in but importance in a so betrothed can historians any other banns all second the it has been composition is where is the best so betrothed experience point response are filonov were string religious was for the sake the the song u.s medicare in your the your closes that your particularly in both in your two possible particularly in third the for your conjugal business it be the prettiest the century the television particularly in on the all on life commerce the you come that the most important television compelled the clergy communion with hath fallen into disuse but was formally repealed cried kate eagerly gerard the dramatic all do I can't what they see in them the dramatic so but if he rican life he would birth he was us know he would not that is being us you wicked selected or the art patriotic a life look not so gerard particularly in that laid the the dramatic puerto rico his the dramatic particularly in for the saints I public you the if his traditions was could he include the without literal that look look she the out triumphantly worked in marble radiant in this shukshin who was or be the with her eloquence her feminine gerard's television his eyes mouth opened remained in data capacity they kept turning all if on from the the women from the women the I your the sequence stands the binary encoding brokenly I you its numerous that I have just had from being relation one that hath he was perhaps the death's not the dregs his accusers white pixel the relation one he do she should die gerard I the sequence I who they were before I would completely them gerard metaphoric offered the that included he hesitated but declined it selected or no my comrade etc but thy the dramatic for the wench touches me I'll by increasing thy so apprehension ay go on you girl you give me tis particular selected or one the ways woman she her the environment sati his trembled broke he dared not look her she through the vines a splendid commonwealth panorama beyond them her who is allowed heaved her the person disclosed in the she cutting across in it not together with not alas with the whose had inspired it in shukshin who she shook her her eyes on the flushed averted her suitor see denys the mules with their characterized by frontlets them no would transmit be soldiers in the midst this relation one admiration the came up with them inglewood ignored wild on the faces something commonly continued with cheerfulness a chill fell on him the milder servant then that laid the-natured gerard was vain reminded him thieves often the the assured him it communities inaugural be gentleman his god are problems had inhabitants was going his leman so take where he cutting across it metaphoric particularly in support direct for ye the sequence catherine gerard taught thee that I'll go bail then out with thy fundamental him gobernador proprietario I tell him he should be the first the the ambitions bonaparte the mere thought horrifies him in me that same the government plebeian fundamental by increasing apprehension if my central role in had but his back the make whose status in the californias madre dios how I should him heed mistress commerce the he cannot communion with you I can it particularly in medieval that being offered expansion made cats skins he rejected it saying I have but I momentary rejoined the baital latin jazz if tribikram had not preserved her appoints members how could she have been restored if madhusadan had not the the how could she have been revivified so it seems me your extraordinary work vasily that they whispered so they could do they were metaphoric each other that I could only one including the it came from james seems public the trediakovsky their whisperings for his were easily if you feelings that me your petrograd now ye string religious it particularly in only successful film rates up that following years are popular gonzález bernie in the become sometimes rankle afterwards when she came go over all that had passed she was highly gerard's thinking she could this view the sacred in the sometime what AUGUST HIGHLAND --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 02:58:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: typeloop #0140..................excerpt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit THE PAUL WHITNEY COLLECTION www.the-hyper-age.com typeloop #0140..................excerpt Ay replied Thorkel Sigurdson one ship captains wait seemed take frank pleasure being court dressed barbaric splendour ushered vile result very deeply asleep suspect instead uncomely verge grotesque totally Spontaneous intervals along lawns twisted ash never catch Emma Jossylin wrapper blackness death round Think come Ay replied Thorkel Sigurdson Ay replied Thorkel Sigurdson mind begun wander talked wildly one ship captains wait one ship captains wait himself Spontaneous seemed take frank pleasure being seemed take frank pleasure being woman revolted while dared court dressed barbaric splendour court dressed barbaric splendour Helgi just got back loft throwing truth answered Estein ushered ushered off coat very deeply asleep arms wrapped apron all once found very deeply asleep may cure say letting Liot Skulison thus instead uncomely verge grotesque make myself comfortable instead uncomely verge grotesque know because Frances Spontaneous almost summery saw Spontaneous never catch Emma Jossylin wrapper follow little sage tries measure heaven earth never catch Emma Jossylin wrapper synagogue mind begun wander talked wildly himself lay revolving possible mind begun wander talked wildly dissuade himself half looking Thames summer night himself inferences explanations most fate go why stand anything town air crying Point right haft happy together Also meet again trick family Helgi just got back loft throwing unicycle Helgi just got back loft throwing years off coat off coat weather bulwark busy may cure say letting Liot Skulison department big shop may cure say letting Liot Skulison art thou said Estein low whether know strange guise maid two said Thorolf Hauskoldson know voice coming forward step begged will throw away said quiet religion brings peace happiness Know one old man Estein asked sure-joy Marsh joy eighteen year great many nearer meet quite company back inferences explanations most holm looking inferences explanations most hounds go horses race city folk land forests distant island home happy together Also meet again happy together Also meet again coursing drunk think will difficult seems years clues Twenty times years dogs began bark villagers saw tiger forward never more found himself room seemed occupy stout sea-rover turned gleam grim art thou said Estein low boots went up top house where art thou said Estein low most small Estein told storm sea fight Vikings voice coming forward step Aesthetic Values Blind voice coming forward step Sing song battle cried Estein religion brings peace happiness much roof repeated young man Why religion brings peace happiness saw change windows birds singing autumn air sure-joy Marsh joy Two things feared replied Estein sure-joy Marsh joy Estein started up gaze met pair mounted Land right cried Helgi moment dark blue eyes seemed hold hands bow ready shoot hounds go horses race city folk thee often last hounds go horses race city folk rush cold air back Moving candle arrived take part funeral rites coursing went coursing rush cold air back Moving candle dogs began bark villagers saw tiger Bue hall dogs began bark villagers saw tiger later came again underground obeys master took up abode living found himself room seemed occupy excitedly forward found himself room seemed occupy appalling muttered Helgi shrugged shoulders most small most small negative receptive calls course son welcome Sing song battle cried Estein shore islet stillness absolute Sing song battle cried Estein succeed viper grass saw change burners Olaf long gone Norway saw change returned evening shadows darkening dear long time ago long may fancy Estein started up gaze met pair Estein started up gaze met pair down hardly dark blue eyes hearth changed angel folded wings dark blue eyes guest always well suited sentinel rush cold air back Moving candle revivalist rush cold air back Moving candle sorry persisted let stay rush cold air back Moving candle creature tamed fear rush cold air back Moving candle shortly continued hastily father now come later came again underground shifting stirring later came again underground thought often appalling muttered each chief appalling muttered Graham felt something like hot iron spirits Helgi negative receptive calls course negative receptive calls course through shoulder upwards succeed glimpse succeed shoulders claw-like fingers returned evening shadows darkening dead enjoin returned evening shadows darkening down aix-la- chapelle down forgotten like sent two blouses followed let Norsemen file sorry persisted let stay room troubled even seven candles sorry persisted let stay door hearing immediate reply shortly continued hastily father fear foeman said like ill fight shortly continued hastily father Presence stirred neighbor thought childhood old enough now look thought often thought night stars shone wind thought often fairly see aught sort anger Graham felt something like hot iron Bath very anxious restless go Graham felt something like hot iron deserved death quiver echoes rang up down spiral through shoulder through shoulder means regaining own form forced venture Facing land-locked end sound spend day hiding down floor made start Great catacombs occured things daughter forgotten like sent two blouses foemen forgotten like sent two blouses beneath ground imprisonment Helgi loud enough almost entirely Osla part shore possible man concealed stepped own exclusive set majority deep sea-shore Presence stirred neighbor thought idea long Presence stirred neighbor thought will give all time fight raging being borne fairly see apparition probably some deceased fairly see neither spoil nor captives tale short interval deserved death Towers stood solemnly Sussex hill deserved death Liot capture means regaining own form forced portentous means regaining own form forced Liot capture minded date Instantly dropped head spend day hiding spend day hiding hoof-beats plunged Keola thought good bit himself saw Great catacombs occured things seen anyone entering room till got Great catacombs occured things difficult keep awake deprived those beneath ground imprisonment young gentlewoman blessed beneath ground imprisonment hurried remember nothing save came bending answer Shall march King Bue see Yield Estein Hakonson will will give even sunshine day just fading turn will give neither spoil nor captives tale once young man boy learnt neither spoil nor captives tale made attempt whatever discover friend Liot capture little Liot capture hidden gold Odin wills Liot capture minded little time talking now son Liot capture minded seaward barrier isle thanks hoof-beats plunged first religious phrase occurred hoof-beats plunged grim smile stole Estein face Why waited long said Estein difficult keep awake strangers difficult keep awake presently stopped beside wainscot hurried remember nothing save will broken some day will come hurried remember nothing save HOUSE FOREST doomed house flames leapt danced answer content Mabel quite understands answer marshes firm frozen snow lies canopy grey clouds hung all carried nowhere very deep thought effect anything Sim grounds building abstain holding up one finger turning made attempt whatever discover made attempt whatever discover mirrors hidden gold hurried through hall Liot Skulison hidden gold explanation continually evaded seaward barrier isle seaward barrier isle moved moonlight brother law saw vibration grim smile stole Estein face heart catholic heart simple grim smile stole Estein face go home will persuade father remain will presently stopped beside back even pride allowed think presently stopped beside till hagard stay quietly wrist bird HOUSE FOREST glanced askance HOUSE FOREST time captured care saw phial glass Where asked marshes firm frozen snow lies needed Ketill heed jests young marshes firm frozen snow lies door opened thought caught Atli dear blundered hardly knowing nowhere very deep query rather avoiding nowhere very deep tones answering sullen calm loneliness abstain society abstain gone down movements suggested caged creature all tell anything Osla wished second paused beheld house put mean uses lay sea-shore sure moved moonlight brother law saw driven another add perplexities moved moonlight brother law saw terraces where disappeared gloom glimmered gate go home will persuade father remain can forget other matter sleep began think said something very processor go home will persuade father remain flew very low very dressed martial looking till till nobody gave gave myself happen moodily leaning table time AUGUST HIGHLAND --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/19/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 07:04:22 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Pierre Joris Subject: Berio Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable May 28, 2003 Luciano Berio, 77, Composer of Mind and Heart, Dies By PAUL GRIFFITHS Luciano Berio, an Italian composer whose many compositions, ranging=20 from chamber music to large-scale orchestral works and from operas to=20 songs, combined innovative imagination and analytical depth with a=20 richly sensuous feeling for sound and form, died yesterday in Rome. He=20= was 77. An outstanding orchestral and vocal composer who was perhaps most=20 remarked upon for his works with solo voice, he was especially known=20 during his long residence in New York City for conducting his own works=20= with the Juilliard Ensemble, which he founded. Mr. Berio's love for music was exuberantly promiscuous, and it drew him=20= close to Italian opera (especially Monteverdi and Verdi), 20th-century=20= modernism (especially Stravinsky), popular music (the Beatles, jazz),=20 the great Romantic symphonists (Schubert, Brahms, Mahler) and folk=20 songs from around the world. All gave him models for original=20 compositions or arrangements, or for works that were neither entirely=20 new nor entirely old, works in which threads of the old could be=20 combined with new strands. An outstanding example is the middle=20 movement of his "Sinfonia" for orchestra and vocal octet (1968-9),=20 where the entire scherzo from Mahler's "Resurrection" Symphony rolls=20 along, supporting a tapestry of short quotations, new ideas and spoken=20= interjections. Even when his music is ostensibly original it conveys a=20= homage to the past. For him to write an opera, a concerto, a string=20 quartet or a piece for solo clarinet was to contribute to a tradition.=20= That did not mean following traditional forms, which would have been=20 far from his thinking. Rather, the piece would emerge and develop as if=20= it were a memory, evoking textures and situations from the past. Mr. Berio was born on Oct. 24, 1925, into a musical family long=20 resident in the Ligurian coastal town of Oneglia. His grandfather was=20 his first teacher, and he grew up surrounded by chamber music.=20 Immediately after World War II he entered the Milan Conservatory, where=20= he studied composition with Giorgio Federico Ghedini, whose neo-Baroque=20= style was an early influence, along with the music of Stravinsky. Among his fellow students was the American singer Cathy Berberian, whom=20= he married in 1950, and with whom he made frequent visits to the United=20= States, encountering a fellow Italian, Luigi Dallapiccola, at=20 Tanglewood and electronic music in New York. Under these influences he=20= entered the modernist stream with works like "Chamber Music" (1953), a=20= set of James Joyce songs he wrote for Ms. Berberian to sing with=20 clarinet, cello and harp. A meeting with another Italian, Bruno Maderna, brought him to the=20 Darmstadt summer school, the annual meeting place in Germany for the=20 European avant-garde. He attended regularly between 1954 and 1959, and=20= so came to know Pierre Boulez, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Gyorgy Ligeti,=20 Mauricio Kagel among others. Contributing to their endeavors for=20 radical innovation, he produced his most complicated conceptions,=20 notably "Tempi Concertati" for flute, violin, two pianos and four=20 instrumental groups (1958-9). Other works of this period include his first electronic pieces. He was=20= co-director with Maderna of a studio for electronic music at the Milan=20= station of Italian radio and produced one of the early classics of tape=20= music: "Thema (Omaggio a Joyce)" (1958), based on a recording of Ms.=20 Berberian's reading from Joyce's "Ulysses." In the same year, with=20 "Sequenza I" for flute, he instituted a series of solo studies, each=20 considering the history, performance style and aura of an instrument.=20 By the time of his death he had composed 14 such pieces, for most of=20 the standard Western instruments, including the human voice. As patterns of virtuosity, these pieces often prompted elaboration. For=20= example, "Sequenza VI" (1967), which has a viola player scrubbing=20 vigorously at tremolo chords, generated in succession "Chemins II" for=20= the same viola player with nonet (1967), "Chemins III" for the viola=20 with orchestra (1967), "Chemins IIb" for small orchestra (1969), a=20 score from which the original solo viola has disappeared, and "Chemins=20= IIc" (1972), in which it has been replaced by a bass clarinet. Here Mr.=20= Berio was using his own music in the ways he often used others' music,=20= as material to be analyzed, explored, imitated and developed. Meanwhile, he was pursuing his fascination with the human voice and=20 with the drama of song. Mr. Berio's first composition for the theater, "Passaggio," had its=20 premiere at the Piccola Scala in Milan in 1963 and was a provocative=20 expression of its sole female character's subjection to social=20 pressures. Subsequently his dramatic works became more poetic than=20 political. "Laborintus II" (1965) is based on an anticapitalist poem by=20= his longstanding friend Edoardo Sanguineti, but the music provides a=20 gorgeous, dreamlike flow of imagery for voices and chamber orchestra,=20 more engulfing than supporting the reciter. Between 1963 and 1971 Mr. Berio lived largely in New York with his=20 Japanese-American second wife, Susan. He taught at the Juilliard=20 School, where he founded the Juilliard Ensemble, and became more active=20= as a conductor. He wrote "Sinfonia" for Leonard Bernstein and the=20 Philharmonic, and his first full-scale opera, simply called "Opera,"=20 for the Santa Fe Opera, which produced it in 1970. In 1972 he returned to Italy, to a house on the edge of the hill town=20 of Radicondoli, near Siena. In the mid-70's he became a co-director of=20= Mr. Boulez's computer music institute in Paris, which he left in 1980=20 to establish his own facility in Florence, Tempo Reale. His biggest work of the decade after "Opera" was "Coro," for 40 singers=20= and 40 instrumentalists (1975-6), an interweaving of folksong-inspired=20= melodies with massive choral settings of words by Pablo Neruda,=20 contrasting individual freedom with oppressive authority. He then=20 returned to opera for two collaborations with Italo Calvino: "Una vera=20= storia," first performed in Florence in 1982, and "Un re in Ascolto,"=20 written for the 1984 Salzburg Festival. Both these works were, like "Opera," deconstructions of the genre. The=20= first part of "Una Vera Storia" is a theatrical analysis of Verdi's "Il=20= Trovatore," the second a new synthesis of the discovered=20 musical-dramatic elements. "Un re in Ascolto," which was given its=20 American premiere by the Lyric Opera of Chicago in 1996, reworks parts=20= of Shakespeare's "Tempest" in a form in which rehearsal, performance=20 and memory coalesce. Narrative is still more dissolved in "Outis," first performed at La=20 Scala, Milan, in 1996. The opera is loosely based on the myth of=20 Odysseus and incorporates 20th-century images of assassination, exile=20 and genocide. "Cronaca del Luogo," performed at the 1999 Salzburg=20 Festival, was a return to the format of "Passaggio," with a single=20 female character but now representing the heroic women of the Hebrew=20 Bible. The concern with Jewish subject matter in these later operas =97 as well=20= as in the magnificent "Ofanim" for instrumental groups, children's=20 voices, electronic resources and, again, a solo female vocalist=20 (1988-97) =97 was stimulated by his third wife, the Israeli-born Talia=20= Packer Berio, who was as important an influence on the music he wrote=20 in his 60's and 70's as Berberian had been in his 20's and 30's. Ms.=20 Packer Berio created the libretto for "Cronaca del Luogo" and also drew=20= her husband's attention to the symphonic sketches by Schubert that he=20 used in "Rendering" for orchestra (1988-90). Other late orchestral works, notably "Formazioni" (1985-7) and=20 "Concerto II" with solo piano (1988-90), show Mr. Berio's continuing=20 ability to find new ways for the orchestra to speak, vividly and=20 beautifully, while solo instruments went on having their say as he=20 extended the "Sequenza" series. But perhaps his most personal and=20 powerful achievements are works centered on a solo female voice, all=20 the way from "Chamber Music" to "Cronaca del Luogo": music that=20 celebrates an individual's capacity, even in an unhearing world, to go=20= on expressing pathos, love and imagination. He is survived by Ms. Packer Berio, of Radicondoli and Florence, and by=20= two daughters, two sons and two grandchildren. ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a = crime. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere = Else. c: 518 225 7123 =09 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________= ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:22:45 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael helsem Subject: Fwd: Times New Roman anti-empire anthology available at nthposition Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed now ready to download! --------------------------------------------- http://graywyvern.blogspot.com >From: michael helsem >To: graywyvern@hotmail.com >Subject: Fwd: Times New Roman anti-empire anthology available at >nthposition >Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:19:22 -0700 (PDT) > >--- Todd Swift wrote: > > From: "Todd Swift" > > To: <"Undisclosed-Recipient:;"@wanadoo.fr> > > Subject: Times New Roman anti-empire anthology > > available at nthposition > > Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:44:45 +0200 > > > > May 27, 2003 > > Please Forward > > > > NTHPOSITION'S TIMES NEW ROMAN ANTHOLOGY NOW > > AVAILABLE ONLINE > > > > Nthposition.com - the London-based online magazine > > which was active in promoting peaceful poetic > > protest during the anti-war campaign - has now > > released a ground-breaking e-book anthology of poems > > against 21st century empire. The anthology - which > > it is hoped will be shared with poets and readers > > world-wide - is meant to continue to keep the issues > > raised by US/UK/UN occupation of Iraq in the pubic > > eye. > > > > Mainstream media attention has drifted since the > > heady days of protest in January-March, now nearly > > as much a mirage as the non-existent WOMD used as a > > pretext for the illegal war on Iraq. By focusing on > > poems which relate to themes of empire, colonization > > and anti-globalization, TIMES NEW ROMAN provides a > > rallying cry to those not just opposed to "war" but > > unchecked superpower expansion - and proposes a new > > role for poets, when being against war is no longer > > enough in itself. > > > > The collection can be found at > > http://www.nthposition.com/timesnew.html in a form > > suitable for reading onscreen. It also features > > powerful never-before-seen photos from the 1968 > > protests in Paris in stark counterpoint. A chapbook > > version - which can be easily printed, copied and > > made into books for personal use or public readings > > - will be online end-of-week. Everyone is encourage > > to copy and host these books on their own sites. We > > would like to better our record, which saw > > Nthposition's 100 Poets Against The War downloaded > > over 150,000 times, inspiring readings and > > demonstrations from Tokyo to Toronto, Seattle to > > Oxford, Moscow to New York. > > > > The poets in the collection are from Australia, > > Canada, Iraq, Ireland, India, the UK and the United > > States, among other places. They offer a spectrum > > of compelling voices, from emerging to well-known, > > from traditional to avant-garde, and have all kindly > > donated their work to this project. They are: > > > > Adam Dressler, Audrey Ogilvie, Barbara Jane Reyes, > > Brentley Frazer, Catherine Kidd, Cathy Barber, > > Charles Bernstein, Todd Colby, Clive Matson, Daphne > > Gottlieb, Eleni Zisimatos Auerbach, Eileen Tabios, > > Eva Salzman, Fadel K Jabr, Fred Johnston, Geraldine > > Mills, Gloria Frym, H Masud Taj, Hal Sirowitz, Hêlen > > Thomas, Jason Dennie, Jeet Thayil, Katerina > > Fretwell, John W Sexton, Ken Waldman, Kevin Higgins, > > Lorri Neilsen Glenn, Vincent Tinguely, Lucy English, > > Luisa Igloria, Ryk McIntyre, Michael Brown, > > Graywyvern, Moez Surani, Bob Holman, Paradise aka > > Richard Moore, Patrick Chapman, Penn Kemp, Philip > > Hyams, Ranjit Hoskoté, Richard Peabody, Rip > > Bulkeley, Robert Davidson, Ruth Fainlight, Thad > > Rutkowski, rYAN kAMSTRA, Sampurna Chattarji, Allen > > Cohen, Sharlie West, June Shenfield, Sherry > > Chandler, Sina Queyras, Sue Littleton, Susan Millar > > Dumars, Thom World Poet, Tom Phillips, Tony Brown, > > Tony Lewis-Jones, Vicki Hudspith, Winona Baker, > > Martin Galvin, Charlotte Muse > > > > peace. > > > > Todd > > > > > > Todd Swift > > editor > > Times New Roman: > > Poets Oppose 21st Century Empire > > >===== >------------------------------------------------------ >http://graywyvern.blogspot.com > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. >http://search.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:26:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: FW: matthew barney versus donkey kong MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: nettime-l-request@bbs.thing.net [mailto:nettime-l-request@bbs.thing.net] On Behalf Of nettime's_roving_reporter Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 12:11 PM To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net Subject: matthew barney versus donkey kong [ via ] game girl advance home features archives about May 23, 2003 matthew barney versus donkey kong Barney versus Donkey Kong From the Editor:=20 In this month's feature, Wayne Bremser compares the properties of Donkey Kong to the aesthetics of Matthew Barney's provocative film, Cremaster 3. Wayne is a writer and old-school game enthusiast. His current projects include Harlem.org, a jazz history site, and BeatThief.com. It's obvious from his writing that he is skilled and smart; but you should also know that he brandishes a positively wicked sense of humor, too. He lives in San Francisco and is working on his first novel. Matthew Barney's Cremaster 3 begins a serious negotiation between art and video games. There have been exhibits and books celebrating game design in recent years, while digital art has introduced interactivity into museums. Painters have created canvases with game characters. Cremaster 3 lacks the obvious cultural references, but its absurdity, repetition, level design and use of landscape as narrative establishes a stronger connection to video games than these other works. Despite the popularity of the Cremaster films, only a small percentage of museumgoers have ever seen an art film. After twenty-five years of cultural relevance, video games still do not have a serious place in museums and galleries. Cremaster 3 is important not only because it has attracted a wider audience to an art film, but also because it is one of the first works of contemporary art to incorporate video game narrative. film and game adaptations=20 Most museums and galleries have ignored games, while technological progress has drawn mainstream film and games together. This relationship can be charted by the number of games adapted from films. More recently, a number of films have been based on popular video games. Most of these films have been terrible. Faced with adaptation, a film director has less freedom than a game designer. Technology limitations are small obstacles compared to a mainstream film audience that will not accept the absurd and abstract elements found in games. Audiences will not watch a film that has no spoken dialogue, forcing the film director to make her video game star speak for two painful hours. While nuances of character remain a challenge for many designers, games have been able to capture film environments for quite some time. Film to game adaptation is more successful because the medium forces a reduction of plot and character without sacrificing a film's narrative world. Beyond adaptation, several directors have been able to translate the compelling elements of the game medium into original films. One of the first successful attempts was Tron, which distilled sweeping, cool blue silent film landscapes from early games like Battlezone and Missile Command. Incorporating graceful motion and an element of minimalist abstraction, the film's gladiatorial sequences are wonderful cinema. Audiences didn't respond; Tron's arcade adaptation was more popular and profitable than the film. Twenty years after Tron, Cremaster 3 presents a mythic narrative cobbled together from Masonic legend and Matthew Barney's self-referential symbols. This is the last film in Barney's five Cremaster films, named after the muscle that controls the rising and lowering of the testicles. Without the expectations of a mainstream film audience and the responsibilities of a commercial director, Barney has the freedom to create a film loaded with the repetitive, ritualistic and quasi-mythical elements commonly found in video games. Offering three dialogue-free hours of whimsy and discomfort, Cremaster 3 is an art world adaptation of Donkey Kong. At a Cremaster 3 screening Richard Flood, the chief curator of the Walker Art Center, mentioned that he had recently seen Gangs of New York. He wondered whether Barney was "a better director than Martin Scorsese." Answering himself, Flood said, "I think he might be." Critics and curators should not be concerned with the comparison of art films to commercial films, Matthew Barney versus Martin Scorsese. Cinema's journey to get into the museum is over. Today's struggle concerns Matthew Barney versus Donkey Kong. creating narrative landscapes =20 | The Masons and Hiram Abiff | One of the oldest fraternities, the Freemasons currently have millions | of members around the world. Several U.S. Presidents, including | Washington, were Freemasons. The group was more powerful in the 1920s, | when Barney's Chrysler sequence is set. The Masons have many symbols, | including the compass, ruler and other building tools, which Barney | appropriates in his film. The fraternity is also known for secret | handshakes and passwords. | Tracing their origin back to biblical times, Freemasons celebrate the | myth of Hiram Abiff, famed builder of Solomon's Temple. Before the | temple was complete, Abiff was taunted by three ruffians who wanted | his great knowledge. Abiff refused and was attacked by each and | finally killed. | Like many social orders, such as the military or priesthood, the | Masons have created a system of levels (Entered Apprentice, | Fellowcraft, Master Mason, Mark Master, etc). Barney's character in | the film, the Entered Apprentice appears at the bottom of the order | (represented by diagrams of steps or ladders). As a rite of passage, | the candidate for Master Mason will be taken through a ritual of three | stages, which simulates the experience Abiff went through holding onto | his secrets and integrity against his three attackers. The plot of Cremaster 3 is taken from the Masonic order and the myth of Hiram Abiff (see sidebar), but the narrative center of the film is found in its architectural spaces. Before being populated with adversaries, spaces in Cremaster 3 and video games are transformed sculpturally to create an arena for action. Barney and game designers look for strong visual landscapes that are ripe for a character's running, jumping, smashing and climbing. Barney's locations include a heavy layer of personal and cultural meaning that game designers often ignore. He builds and qualifies levels with variations on color and light, giving the viewer signs about the amount of danger the protagonist faces. The majority of the film takes place in the Chrysler Building and the Guggenheim Museum in New York. The interiors have been altered to remove the buildings from reality, much in the way a game that relies on real locations focuses on certain details and erases others to establish a backdrop that enhances game play without getting in the way of it. Both Barney's Entered Apprentice and Mario climb structures modified from what architects have intended. In the Chrysler Building Barney ascends the elevator shaft, which exposes the building's innards. In the rivets degree of Donkey Kong, Mario must climb around an exposed, unfinished structure, walking over rivets to remove them. The perfect disorder of the titled girders in the ramps degree of Donkey Kong, transformed by an enormous jumping ape, match the perfect order of the ramps in Guggenheim rotunda, created by the most famous American architect. A climbing rig allows Barney to scale the rotunda, bypassing the ramps. In both Cremaster 3 and Donkey Kong, reaching the top level of the structures both rewards the protagonist and punishes him for hubris. When Mario reaches the top of the steel structures, Donkey Kong finds a way to take Pauline away to the next screen. When Barney's Entered Apprentice reaches the top of the Chrysler Building the film cuts to a scene where he suffers a setback: his teeth are knocked out. [guggvkong.jpg] The Entered Apprentice is then placed in the Guggenheim sequence, which opens with naked women that introduce players to each level of the game. The scene feels like a parody of a television quiz show mixed with a video game's level introductions. Recall Donkey Kong asking the player, without a wink, "How high can you get?" | "This scene was shot in the rotunda of the Guggenheim Museum on the | different levels and feels almost like a video game. There are five | levels, which take on five different allegories of the five Cremaster | chapters [films]." - Matthew Barney In Donkey Kong and Cremaster 3 levels are determined by a combination of architecture and dangers that await the protagonist. Each ramp of the Guggenheim features a test, symbolizing Barney's five Cremaster chapters, his own quasi-Masonic ritual of passage, an artist testing his own artistic progress. Barney uses the museum space as an interface to both confront and create art. With the tools of a Mason, Barney calculates and smashes his way to the top of the rotunda, leaving a trail of work cobbled together from shards of previous generations. Donkey Kong (arcade version) has four degrees: * Ramps: Mario must climb steel beams that the ape has titled by his ferocious jumping. * Girders: Mario must deconstruct a girder structure by removing a series of rivets. Kong tumbles to ground. * Elevators: Mario must jump between a set of fast moving elevators to reach Pauline. * Factory: In a pie factory with moving conveyor belts. Guggenheim in Cremaster 3 has five degrees: * Order of the Rainbow for Girls: Duck the legs of Rockette-style women in bunny suits. * Agnostic Front versus Murphy's Law: Recover Masonic tools in floor between two 1980's hardcore bands in a battle of the bands. * Aimee Mullins: Battle beautiful woman that transforms into a deadly cat. * Five Points of Fellowship: Assemble one of Barney's sculptures. * Richard Serra: Confront the sculptor tossing Vaseline. characters and myth=20 Donkey Kong's myth of a man fighting a giant ape on a skyscraper has its origin in the King Kong films. After being captured in the jungle and brought to the city by greedy men, the largest ape in the world climbs the tallest building in New York where he fights humans to the death. Cremaster 3 is based on the Masonic myth of Hiram Abiff, the architect of Solomon's Temple. Barney uses the Chrysler Building as a character to play the temple. The construction worker Mario moves in pursuit of Pauline, while Barney's construction worker, the Entered Apprentice, climbs in pursuit of the architect, Hiram Abiff. Both workers are presented with a single facial expression, no dialogue and no significant character development except their determination to move ever upwards. [barney.mario.jpg] The hubris of the Entered Apprentice and Mario is both awarded and punished. The ability to honor the rites is highly valued in Masonic culture. During his climb of the Chrysler Building, Barney's Entered Apprentice bypasses rites by casting rather than carving a Masonic stone. He is punished by having his teeth knocked out. By jumping for a hammer, Mario also gets the chance for an easier climb to the top. The hammer gives Mario the power to smash the barrels headed towards him. If he stays confident for too long, the hammer vanishes, leaving him dashing into the deadly barrels. Game designers populate levels with a higher concentration of adversaries than friends. These minor adversaries have varying degrees of animosity towards the player. Upon the player's entrance to a new screen, level-specific characters charge immediately or wait for a trigger, which allows a player to observe sentries walking a beat, workers building, monsters feeding or shitting. The minor adversary plays an important role in Cremaster 3. With the camera disconnected from the Entered Apprentice, Barney allows the audience to observe ceremonies and rituals of level-specific characters, showing us what awaits the climber at the top of the Chrysler Building. These characters include a group of Freemasons smoking cigars, the Cloud Club Barman and Aimee Mullins playing the Entered Motivate. At the top of the Chrysler Building, the Entered Apprentice interacts with the Cloud Club Barman in silent-era comedy scene. Because of the tilted bar, representing the uneven structure of the unfinished temple, the Barman can't quite deliver a glass of beer to Barney without spilling it. Besides recalling the physical humor of Chaplin or Harold Lloyd, the scene evokes Tapper and Burger Time, funny, yet stressful early video games in which players faced the never-ending production of food and beverage. The rhythms of adversaries vary dramatically in Barney's Chrysler and Guggenheim sequences. Characters in the Chrysler sequence move slowly and deliberately, arranging things, cutting potatoes, smoking cigars. There is a feeling of the organic ritual operating in the world of the late 1920s, bodies in synch with the turning wheels of industry. Even the dread evoked in the lobby by the 1967 Imperials smashing the 1938 Imperial results from a precise rhythm and slow edits that give the viewer time to anticipate. In the Guggenheim sequence the absurd mix of adversaries are kicking, dancing and flailing. The atmosphere and tempo of the cast recall Fellini's Roma and Satyricon. [women.jpg] (fay wray, pauline, aimee mullins, hungry like the wolf) Model, athlete and double amputee Aimee Mullins plays the two primary female characters. Many early video games, including Donkey Kong, also had singular female roles, where women played the fetishized captive, goal, and prize saved for the end of the game. Barney fixates on Mullins' truncated limbs, sculpting fetishes, elaborate prosthetic legs for her to wear. Barney dances with Mullins in the Guggenheim sequence, symbolizing the moment at which the fetus becomes either male or female. She morphs into a feline and tussles with him, but he easily strikes her down. This sexy pussy that scratches clich=E9 takes form in a scene reminiscent of Duran Duran's "Hungry Like the Wolf" video. Undertones of bestiality are also significant in the King Kong films, but are stripped away by the primitive graphics and animation of Donkey Kong. =20 [serra.kong1.jpg] Richard Serra plays Donkey Kong, waiting at the top of both New York buildings. Serra is one of the most famous living sculptors, a great white man from the previous century, Picasso-like in appearance, gruff and bald. He maintains this persona playing two roles in the film. Both Barney and Serra are Yale alumni and, by placing him at the top of the order in both sequences, Barney makes it clear that he considers Serra the most important artist of the previous generation. With this casting, Barney praises Serra as Master Mason, but also winks at the art world's Warholian order of celebrity. =20 [serra.kong2.jpg] In the Chrysler sequence Serra plays Hiram Abiff, the Architect of Solomon's Temple. He wears a sharp suit and waits at the top of the building drawing and constructing two pillars of black metal plates (a reference to temple pillars Jachin and Boaz). In the Guggenheim sequence, Serra plays himself, donning an apron and tools with which to mold hot metals. While Donkey Kong tosses barrels at Mario that catch fire and populate the ramps with happy, dancing demons, Barney engages Frank Lloyd Wright's architecture with his own hot stuff. [serra.kong3.jpg] Richard Serra tosses melted Vaseline at the top level of the Guggenheim, which trickles down the rotunda. Vaseline is one of many materials, including tapioca, which Barney has become famous for using. The tossing is a reference to some of Serra's most important work. Using molten lead thrown against a wall, Serra performed the physical dance of Jackson Pollack's dripping and tossing, challenging the assumption that sculpture is a static object on a pedestal that is separate from the space around it. Barney challenges the need a sculptor like Serra has to create any physical object, instead making his sculpture exist as characters in films. While Mario causes the ape to fall several stories onto his head, Barney castrates his Donkey Kong, robbing the older artist of his material of choice. discount myths=20 The art world has suffered a deficiency of myth in the past fifty years. Critics are both impressed and confounded by Matthew Barney as mythmaker. In an article titled "Strange Sensation" Time's Richard Lacayo calls Barney a "gee-whiz mythomaniac." "OK, it's weird," writes Jonathan Jones for the UK's Guardian. These critics are aware that Barney's film is inspired by the Hiram Abiff myth, but are swept away by fact that he dabbles in myth at all. They never refer to video games, where myths are a dime a dozen, where characters regularly morph shape and gender. =20 [starwarscremaster.jpg] At the same time that they are overwhelmed by the films, critics have routinely panned the sculpture that Barney has created for the Cremaster series. Some snidely compare filling the Guggenheim with artifacts from the films to the "The Magic Of Myth" museum show of Star Wars costumes and props The Guggenheim exhibit allows Barney to show Cremaster 3 in the physical space in which the film was set; an opportunity never given to a game designer. Barney transforms the rotunda like a designer would. Flags and icons adorn different levels of the museum. Sounds echo through the spiraling chamber. A spaceship attached to the ceiling delivers scenes from Cremaster 3 on five video monitors. The exhibit feels like a visit to watch movies and play video games in the finished basement of a wealthy childhood friend. The first gallery has elaborate cases that Barney has designed for videodisc and DVD versions of the films. From these discs at the bottom level, up to the giant fantasy television that dominates the top of the rotunda, the Cremaster exhibit is an exaltation of video, but without the game depicted in the film. Barney uses the building as an interface, confronting the Guggenheim with the goal of creating a single piece of art. Barney wants each piece of sculpture, each of video screen and the museum itself to organically fuse into one experience. The exhibit is another masculine battle, an arm-wrestling match. Will Barney be able to reign in the landscape and make it work for the piece? The stakes are high: If the art merely reacts to the space it becomes decoration for the rotunda. The most significant thing Barney has changed in the museum is the light. A giant blue object covers the skylight of the building. In the midday sun, this dims the light and casts a blue tinge. The blanket of blue material is in the shape of the Cremaster logo. Both the film and exhibit are heavily branded. Like Freemasons, game designers and advertisers, Barney pays careful attention to logos, colors, flags and uniforms. During its three hours, the film sometimes feels more like an advertisement for Barney's imagination than a myth. The epic cinematography is not unlike Ridley Scott's famous 1984 Macintosh television ad. We are hammered with serious faces and statuesque bodies. Shots of Barney climbing the elevator shaft could be adopted by a financial firm to advertise its perseverance. By tying the disparate elements with the thread of ritual and mythology, Cremaster 3 is mythic without imparting an actual story. In both the film and the exhibit, this absence of story keeps the viewer at a distance. The film reaches its most visually luscious point with women in bunny suits kicking, two hardcore bands thrashing and Matthew Barney climbing, dancing and tumbling though the Guggenheim. It feels like watching a foreign sport that you do not know the rules of. Barney rejects the inviting qualities of film narrative and creates a virtual space between viewer and art that mimics the feeling of seeing a large piece of classical sculpture in a museum. Don't get too close and don't touch. We aren't called to join the parade like we are in a Fellini film. We don't feel emotionally involved like we do in a good musical, action film or video game. We never get to play. Experiencing Cremaster 3 in the exhibit space of the Guggenheim bridges the distance between viewer and art, but there is also a sense of loss. You are the Entered Apprentice moving up the ramps. You are in the landscape of the game, but there are no adversaries. It's like arriving to engage in LARP (live action role play), but finding nobody dressed as alchemists and orcs. Even the Star Wars exhibit had mannequins dressed in costumes. Looking down from the top level of the museum, you see no punk bands or dancers. You see no naked women frolicking in the fountain. What you see are museumgoers gawking up at the video screens with their backs turned to the sculpture. While the film successfully alters the narrative landscape of the Guggenheim to inspire characters to dance, climb and interact with objects, the exhibit's use of the space obliterates the impulse to action. Watching Barney on a giant video monitor toss white plastic sculpture as you stand in the same space, next to the same objects does more than just distract you from the sculpture. It taunts you. The museum interface keeps your body still as the video images violently tease you with Barney's body in action. Kafka would have enjoyed this situation. Characters peek out from film stills on the walls, their stoic faces and muted voices whispering: Pick it up and throw it. At the same time the giant monitors scream at you: You are helpless. You cannot climb. You cannot pick up the objects. You cannot throw them. You cannot be the epic hero. If you listen to Barney's characters, if the art inspires you to action, you will be thrown out on your ass to wander aimlessly around Central Park. Barney may have successfully re-imagined the Guggenheim in the film, but despite placing his logo over the building and changing its light, despite the overwhelming combination of video and sculpture, the Cremaster exhibit fails to conquer the museum's interface. the future of video games and art A game adaptation of Cremaster 3 could include all of its characters, sculpture, mythical elements and action. You could climb the rotunda, pick up objects and toss them. You could confront punk rockers and legless felines. Why would a game designer want to create this game? The effort could be the first game recognized as a relevant piece of contemporary art. It could be more compelling than the film or the exhibit. It could even be a great game. The dialogue between those that create games and those that decide what is art has just started. Adaptation and the exchange of ideas will expand what is considered fine art and what is considered a video game. The critical feedback that artists and cinematographers are used to will force designers to view their work as part of the larger continuum of art. This will spawn some bloated egos and boring games, but a wider set of influences and greater personal responsibility will inspire game designers to create engaging works of art that are also fun to play. The Cremaster films open today at the Castro Theatre in San Francisco. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 10:21:09 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: recommended readings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Kent Johnson's and Alexandra Papaditsas's MISERIES OF POETRY: TRADUCTIONS FROM THE GREEK (Skanky Possum) --ungodly witty. strange book. the heft of the paratextuals alone is worth it, about 70 blurbs weight the frontmattery parts Brenda Coultas, A HANDMADE MUSEUM (Coffee House -- one word?). a "thingy" book, a "furnitury" book Crystal WIlliams, LUNATIC (Michigan State). her second book. Reed is lucky to have her. Anselm Hollo, OUTLYING DISTRICTS (Coffee House). found in bookstore in Normal yesterday, five dollars E. M. Cioran, A SHORT HISTORY OF DECAY (Arcade). "The idea of infinity must have been born on a day of slackening when some vague languor infiltrated into geometry, like the first act of knowledge at the moment when, in the silence of reflexes, a macabre shudder isolated the perception of its object." Or: "...love: a duel of salivas...." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 08:38:39 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Fw: Poetry Slam Impressario Dan Wilsun Dies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ----- Original Message ----- From: "hammond guthrie" To: "Joel" Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 8:16 AM Subject: FW: Poetry Slam Impressario Dan Wilsun Dies > Don Wilsun > > SEATTLE (AP) - Don Wilsun, a demolition worker who founded > one of the longest running open-microphone poetry groups on > the West Coast, died May 8. He was 56. > > No cause of death was immediately given. > > In 1981, long before poetry "slams" became fashionable, > Wilsun founded Red Sky Poetry Theater. Once a week, most > recently at the Globe Cafe, anyone could sign up to read > original work. > > Poets in the group sometimes issued self-published > collections of their work under the Red Sky imprint. Wilsun > used it even before he founded the group with his first > book, "Orcas Island," in 1980. > > He also published "Sweet Skin" in 1993 and worked with a > second poetry collective called nine muses. > > A native of Louisiana, Wilsun arrived in Seattle in the late > 1960s with Volunteers in Service to America, or Vista, and > found work in demolition. > > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:07:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Frank Sherlock, Kerry Sherin, Scott Anderson Reading June 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'll be reading in Philly this Monday night @ the Khyber. Hope you can make it, if you're in the area. Further info below. Reading Series Painted Bride Quarterly continues its first Monday of the month reading series at the KHYBER, (formally Khyber Pass), 54-56 South Second Street, Philadelphia, PA. The reading begins at 8 p.m.; donations at the door benefit PBQ. The evening will also feature acoustic music by Patrick Goughary. Bring your own work for the open mic that will follow. The readers for June 2, 2003: Scott Edward Anderson's poetry has appeared in the Alaska Quarterly Review, Blueline, The Cortland Review, Cross Connect, Earth's Daughters, River Oak Review, Slant and Terrain: A Journal of the Built and Natural Environments. He has won awards and fellowships. He also reviews poetry in such publications as The Philadelphia Inquirer and The Bloomsbury Review, and his essays have appeared in E Magazine and GreenBiz.com. Anderson is a contributing editor with Painted Bride Quarterly and one of the founding editors of Ducky Magazine. He is the author of a book of natural history called Walks in Nature's Empire, published by The Countryman Press. Kerry E. Sherin has won awards for both her poetry and her teaching. She has been on the forefront of the Philadelphia literary scene for more than ten years, coordinating reading series and special programs at Temple, Penn, and Borders bookstore. Her publications include poems in Poet Lore, Mandorla: New Writing from the Americas, Combo, Capital, New England Review, fiction, freelance articles (most recently in Philadelphia Magazine), and reviews in the Philadelphia Inquirer. In 1997, she became the Resident Coordinator of the Kelly Writers House, and in 1998, she was named its first Director. Frank Sherlock curates the La Tazza Reading Series w/ Magdalena Zurawski in Philadelphia. His chapbooks include 13(Ixnay Press 1998) & a collaboration w/ CA Conrad entitled, End/Begin with Chants (Mooncalf Press 2000). Their latest project is The City Real & Imagined: Philadelphia Poems. Sherlock's work has recently appeared in Skanky Possum, Tool, LVNG, Can We Have Our Ball Back & Puppyflowers. ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:30:22 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alicia Askenase Subject: Re: Frank Sherlock, Kerry Sherin, Scott Anderson Reading June 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey Sherlock, I don't know Anderson, but I'm hoping to make it in and support/enjoy you and Kerry. Alicia ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:43:14 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Stein in the NYer In-Reply-To: <202E1CFB.604DB600.0080AC7C@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I just sent to the New Yorker regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude Stein. The "outing" of Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all historical and personal nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the discussion of Stein's writing is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more politic in the letter itself but that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as I was reading this (I could barely get through the damn thing) I'd encourage you to send your own letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people send they'll have to print at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's incomprehensible tenure as Poetry Editor is starting to make more sense! -m. **************** Dear Editor, Whatever useful biographical information is contained in Janet Malcolm’s "Gertrude Stein’s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her bizarrely vindictive tone and transparent dislike for Stein’s writing. Malcolm describes Stein as simply "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a lifetime, relying on a classic misogynist stereotype regarding women writers (Hawthorne chose the word "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph Ellison considered her work brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary American poets including Susan Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps all who appreciate Stein’s writing under the heading "new Stein critics," the better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New Yorker’s readers deserve better than the facile innuendo and pop-psychologizing that mark this article’s every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to impose a narrative on the stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial biographer’s trait." Well, Malcolm certainly has this trait in spades. Sincerely, Michael Magee Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:01:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Frank Sherlock Subject: Re: Frank Sherlock, Kerry Sherin, Scott Anderson Reading June 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Gracias, gracias! ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:37:31 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: test - message blocked 3 times MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit this is a test i keep trying to reply to steven on-list but that message never appears. Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:40:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Nick Piombino Subject: EDGE- A One Woman Show About Sylvia Plath Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear Toni could you please Forward this to POETICS: THANKS!!! LA Dear NYC Poetics list members, Below is information on the last FREE PREVIEW of an amazing new play on SYLVIA PLATH by Paul Alexander. author of Plath bio, Rough Magic. After this it will begin a commercial run for the summer. Angelica Torn in EDGE a one woman show about Sylvia Plath by Paul Alexander is having it's last invited audience performance before it's commercial run begins June 8th 45 Bleeker Street corner of Bleeker & Lafayette June 1st 7pm contact IRIS ROSSI 212-758-4432 for reservation _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Lee Ann Brown PO Box 13, Cooper Station NYC 10003 646.734.4157 LA@tenderbuttons.net A A ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:39:44 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Theaetetus' Macaroni MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks for the thoughtful reply Steven. I want to quickly say that "To be sure, observer and world are looped in the most complex fashion" seems not so sure at all. In fact the ULTIMATE nature of the relationship or existence of the relationship between observer and world is as intractable as intractability itself. This subject is nothing but a series of speculations without a simgle drop of falsifiability. We frequently hear the following positions: observer and reality are distinct observer and reality are inseparable but language provides a distinction there is no reality external to the observer there are no observers or observations only one reality and so on. But all of them have this in common: none of them can be examined in terms of knowledge. Hell, they can't be understood very well at all when put in the following context: they are, undoubtedly, all utterances, statements, etc. That's about all we know. Their truth values, their certainties, etc., simply cannot be accessed. More precisely, I can't even be sure if their truth values can be accessed, but no one would ever know. Knowing whether or not there is a reality external to me is on par with knowing there is life after death. It's something that is entirely unknowable. It makes for charlatanism, cults, protection from charges of fraud, and wonderful tax breaks, but that's about it. I keep going back to Borges' infinite library of Babel where people comb through the infinite stacks looking for the ultimate book of truth. Borges' point is both simple and profound: assuming one of these people in the infinite library found the ultimate book of truth, how would that person KNOW he or she found the book of truth? What about the next book, with one changed letter? Or the one on the next shelf, with one changed word? Or the book down the hall, with one different sentence? Or the book that is exactly the same but half of the statements are negated? Borges realized what I think Spicer realized, that the ambiguity of the statement that expresses the intractability also expresses the metatruth of the situation and illustrates the impossibility of having any basis for being so sure. For Spicer, I think his intractable problem surrounded the notion of self in particular. And, me too Steven. I also like to write about this sort of thing. There's quite a parallel between knowing the relationship between observer and reality and knowing what happens after death: the fantasy of knowing the unknowable pitted against the knowledge of the limits of the knowable. So now I've said all of that, I have to retreat a little and say I do like very much this concept of observer and reality looped together. My own solution has been to try, mainly through poems, of trying to take these apparently divergent and contradictory metaphysical positions and adhere to them at the same time. I call this "the blessed contradiction." Because it is anything but blessed. It's altogether maddening and unfathomable but at once it feels full of awe and melancholy. I mean, I just cannot escape the grip of Spicer's first poem from his "Language" This ocean, humiliating in its disguises Tougher than anything. No one listens to poetry. The ocean Does not mean to be listened to. A drop Or crash of water. It means Nothing. It Is bread and water Pepper and salt. The death That young men hope for. Aimlessly It pounds the shore. White and aimless signals. no one listens to poetry. Or this from the "graphemics" section, number 6: You flicker. If I move my finger through a candleflame, I know that there is nothing there. But if I hold my finger there a few minutes longer, It blisters. This is an act of will and the flame is is not really there for the candle, I Am writing my own will. Or does the flame cast shadows? At Hiroshima, I hear, the shadows of the victims were as is photographed into concrete building blocks. Or does it flicker? Or are we both candles and fingers? Or do they both point us to the grapheme on the concrete wall-- The space between it Where the shadow and the flame are one? Importantly, the space between the grapheme and the wall itself is nothing, zip. So where the shadow and flame are one is, appropriately nowhere. But apparently a nowhere certainly worth writing about.... Thanks for the note. Patrick Patrick Herron Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:20:08 -0400 From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: gravity's elbow (language and world) Every now and then this "language and world" thread comes around and I always find myself tempted to try to say something about it (I haven't seen everything that's been said this time around, but I'm thinking particularly of the recent provocative exchange under the title "Astrology and Science"). It seems to me that the fact that we shape our world through language is indisputable, but it also seems to me that the matter (have to get this pun out of my system at some point) becomes trickier when we start trying to think about whether anything external to us exists at all. Quantum physics often pops up, as it has here, as a reminder that the presence of the observer fundamentally influences, or even constitutes, whatever we might want to call "reality." And, of course, there's also the question of perception itself, and the way our sensory apparatus constructs our experience. Linguistics, physics, biology-work in all these disciplines (leaving out others, like philosophy) confronts us with the constructed, the partial, the relative. So why do I still find myself resisting the strongest formulations of what I'll call by way of shorthand the "languaged" view of reality? I guess some part of me still gets a charge out of Berkeley kicking that stone and saying to the radical skeptic "I refute thee thus." Of course the stone could be an illusion: B. could be floating in a pod in the matrix dreaming both stones and kicks. Nevertheless his body would be there, and if the AI's wanted to keep him alive it would have to make concessions to that body's biology, making sure it was fed (if only by that black soup simmered from bodies of dead humans), and so on. If be were dreaming an illusion, it still wouldn't be an illusion with no rules, coming out of nowhere (how did he come to dream about stones, not to mention legs and feet in the first place?) We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved under particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? [....] ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:13:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Gerald E. Schwartz" Subject: Re: Berio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable His setting of "Silver Apples of the Moon" =20 still sounds in my head thirty years after =20 my first hearing it on scratchy vinyl. Gerald Schwartz =20 =20 ----- Original Message ----- Wrom: XUWLSZLKBRNV Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:04 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Berio =20 May 28, 2003 Luciano Berio, 77, Composer of Mind and Heart, Dies By PAUL GRIFFITHS Luciano Berio, an Italian composer whose many compositions, ranging =20 from chamber music to large-scale orchestral works and from operas to =20 songs, combined innovative imagination and analytical depth with a =20 richly sensuous feeling for sound and form, died yesterday in Rome. He =20 was 77. An outstanding orchestral and vocal composer who was perhaps most =20 remarked upon for his works with solo voice, he was especially known =20 during his long residence in New York City for conducting his own works =20 with the Juilliard Ensemble, which he founded. Mr. Berio's love for music was exuberantly promiscuous, and it drew him =20 close to Italian opera (especially Monteverdi and Verdi), 20th-century =20 modernism (especially Stravinsky), popular music (the Beatles, jazz), =20 the great Romantic symphonists (Schubert, Brahms, Mahler) and folk =20 songs from around the world. All gave him models for original =20 compositions or arrangements, or for works that were neither entirely =20 new nor entirely old, works in which threads of the old could be =20 combined with new strands. An outstanding example is the middle =20 movement of his "Sinfonia" for orchestra and vocal octet (1968-9), =20 where the entire scherzo from Mahler's "Resurrection" Symphony rolls =20 along, supporting a tapestry of short quotations, new ideas and spoken =20 interjections. Even when his music is ostensibly original it conveys a =20 homage to the past. For him to write an opera, a concerto, a string =20 quartet or a piece for solo clarinet was to contribute to a tradition. =20 That did not mean following traditional forms, which would have been =20 far from his thinking. Rather, the piece would emerge and develop as if =20 it were a memory, evoking textures and situations from the past. Mr. Berio was born on Oct. 24, 1925, into a musical family long =20 resident in the Ligurian coastal town of Oneglia. His grandfather was =20 his first teacher, and he grew up surrounded by chamber music. =20 Immediately after World War II he entered the Milan Conservatory, where =20 he studied composition with Giorgio Federico Ghedini, whose neo-Baroque =20 style was an early influence, along with the music of Stravinsky. Among his fellow students was the American singer Cathy Berberian, whom =20 he married in 1950, and with whom he made frequent visits to the United =20 States, encountering a fellow Italian, Luigi Dallapiccola, at =20 Tanglewood and electronic music in New York. Under these influences he =20 entered the modernist stream with works like "Chamber Music" (1953), a =20 set of James Joyce songs he wrote for Ms. Berberian to sing with =20 clarinet, cello and harp. A meeting with another Italian, Bruno Maderna, brought him to the =20 Darmstadt summer school, the annual meeting place in Germany for the =20 European avant-garde. He attended regularly between 1954 and 1959, and =20 so came to know Pierre Boulez, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Gyorgy Ligeti, =20 Mauricio Kagel among others. Contributing to their endeavors for =20 radical innovation, he produced his most complicated conceptions, =20 notably "Tempi Concertati" for flute, violin, two pianos and four =20 instrumental groups (1958-9). Other works of this period include his first electronic pieces. He was =20 co-director with Maderna of a studio for electronic music at the Milan =20 station of Italian radio and produced one of the early classics of tape =20 music: "Thema (Omaggio a Joyce)" (1958), based on a recording of Ms. =20 Berberian's reading from Joyce's "Ulysses." In the same year, with =20 "Sequenza I" for flute, he instituted a series of solo studies, each =20 considering the history, performance style and aura of an instrument. =20 By the time of his death he had composed 14 such pieces, for most of =20 the standard Western instruments, including the human voice. As patterns of virtuosity, these pieces often prompted elaboration. For =20 example, "Sequenza VI" (1967), which has a viola player scrubbing =20 vigorously at tremolo chords, generated in succession "Chemins II" for =20 the same viola player with nonet (1967), "Chemins III" for the viola =20 with orchestra (1967), "Chemins IIb" for small orchestra (1969), a =20 score from which the original solo viola has disappeared, and "Chemins =20 IIc" (1972), in which it has been replaced by a bass clarinet. Here Mr. =20 Berio was using his own music in the ways he often used others' music, =20 as material to be analyzed, explored, imitated and developed. Meanwhile, he was pursuing his fascination with the human voice and =20 with the drama of song. Mr. Berio's first composition for the theater, "Passaggio," had its =20 premiere at the Piccola Scala in Milan in 1963 and was a provocative =20 expression of its sole female character's subjection to social =20 pressures. Subsequently his dramatic works became more poetic than =20 political. "Laborintus II" (1965) is based on an anticapitalist poem by =20 his longstanding friend Edoardo Sanguineti, but the music provides a =20 gorgeous, dreamlike flow of imagery for voices and chamber orchestra, =20 more engulfing than supporting the reciter. Between 1963 and 1971 Mr. Berio lived largely in New York with his =20 Japanese-American second wife, Susan. He taught at the Juilliard =20 School, where he founded the Juilliard Ensemble, and became more active =20 as a conductor. He wrote "Sinfonia" for Leonard Bernstein and the =20 Philharmonic, and his first full-scale opera, simply called "Opera," =20 for the Santa Fe Opera, which produced it in 1970. In 1972 he returned to Italy, to a house on the edge of the hill town =20 of Radicondoli, near Siena. In the mid-70's he became a co-director of =20 Mr. Boulez's computer music institute in Paris, which he left in 1980 =20 to establish his own facility in Florence, Tempo Reale. His biggest work of the decade after "Opera" was "Coro," for 40 singers =20 and 40 instrumentalists (1975-6), an interweaving of folksong-inspired =20 melodies with massive choral settings of words by Pablo Neruda, =20 contrasting individual freedom with oppressive authority. He then =20 returned to opera for two collaborations with Italo Calvino: "Una vera =20 storia," first performed in Florence in 1982, and "Un re in Ascolto," =20 written for the 1984 Salzburg Festival. Both these works were, like "Opera," deconstructions of the genre. The =20 first part of "Una Vera Storia" is a theatrical analysis of Verdi's "Il =20 Trovatore," the second a new synthesis of the discovered =20 musical-dramatic elements. "Un re in Ascolto," which was given its =20 American premiere by the Lyric Opera of Chicago in 1996, reworks parts =20 of Shakespeare's "Tempest" in a form in which rehearsal, performance =20 and memory coalesce. Narrative is still more dissolved in "Outis," first performed at La =20 Scala, Milan, in 1996. The opera is loosely based on the myth of =20 Odysseus and incorporates 20th-century images of assassination, exile =20 and genocide. "Cronaca del Luogo," performed at the 1999 Salzburg =20 Festival, was a return to the format of "Passaggio," with a single =20 female character but now representing the heroic women of the Hebrew =20 Bible. The concern with Jewish subject matter in these later operas =E2=80=94 as= well =20 as in the magnificent "Ofanim" for instrumental groups, children's =20 voices, electronic resources and, again, a solo female vocalist =20 (1988-97) =E2=80=94 was stimulated by his third wife, the Israeli-born Ta= lia =20 Packer Berio, who was as important an influence on the music he wrote =20 in his 60's and 70's as Berberian had been in his 20's and 30's. Ms. =20 Packer Berio created the libretto for "Cronaca del Luogo" and also drew =20 her husband's attention to the symphonic sketches by Schubert that he =20 used in "Rendering" for orchestra (1988-90). Other late orchestral works, notably "Formazioni" (1985-7) and =20 "Concerto II" with solo piano (1988-90), show Mr. Berio's continuing =20 ability to find new ways for the orchestra to speak, vividly and =20 beautifully, while solo instruments went on having their say as he =20 extended the "Sequenza" series. But perhaps his most personal and =20 powerful achievements are works centered on a solo female voice, all =20 the way from "Chamber Music" to "Cronaca del Luogo": music that =20 celebrates an individual's capacity, even in an unhearing world, to go =20 on expressing pathos, love and imagination. He is survived by Ms. Packer Berio, of Radicondoli and Florence, and by =20 two daughters, two sons and two grandchildren. ___________________________________________________________ Pierre Joris 6 Madison Place And they call reading a sin, and writing is a cri= me. Albany NY 12202 And no doubt this is not entirely false. h: 518 426 0433 They will never forgive us for this Somewhere Els= e. c: 518 225 7123 =20 o: 518 442 40 85 = -- Thomas Bernhard email: joris@albany.edu http://www.albany.edu/~joris/ ____________________________________________________________ =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:39:34 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: theory of Poethia MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT A little blowing of my own horn but relevent to recent discussions _Poethia_ single author isue #15 is out (poethia@cox.net). This is meditations in action on Sontag's _On Representation..._ while meditating on the recent TV war. Photography vs. reality and reality of poetry embodied per art/TV/physicality, etc. tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:52:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Silver Apples In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit didn't Morton Subotnick do "Silver Apples of the Moon," also? kari On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 11:13 AM, Gerald E. Schwartz wrote: > His setting of "Silver Apples of the Moon" > still sounds in my head thirty years after > my first hearing it on scratchy vinyl. > > Gerald Schwartz > > ----- Original Message ----- > Wrom: XUWLSZLKBRNV > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:04 AM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Berio > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 15:21:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: Re: Silver Apples MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit yes ----- Original Message ----- From: "kari edwards" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 2:52 PM Subject: Silver Apples > didn't Morton Subotnick do "Silver Apples of the Moon," also? > kari > On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 11:13 AM, Gerald E. Schwartz wrote: > > > His setting of "Silver Apples of the Moon" > > still sounds in my head thirty years after > > my first hearing it on scratchy vinyl. > > > > Gerald Schwartz > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Wrom: XUWLSZLKBRNV > > Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 7:04 AM > > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > > Subject: Berio > > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:29:15 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Starr Subject: Re: Silver Apples In-Reply-To: <77B8B5BE-913D-11D7-8922-003065AC6058@sonic.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Yes, although it probably isn't a setting per se because it's purely instrumental (Buchla synthesizer). Great polyrhythmic section in the middle that did a wonderful job of drowning out the Bachman Turner Overdrive crap from across the hall my first year in college. Ah, dorm life. - Ron On Wed, 28 May 2003, kari edwards wrote: > didn't Morton Subotnick do "Silver Apples of the Moon," also? > kari > On Wednesday, May 28, 2003, at 11:13 AM, Gerald E. Schwartz wrote: > ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:44:06 -0600 Reply-To: Laura.Wright@colorado.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Laura Wright Organization: University of Colorado Subject: oliver, kite read in Boulder, CO June 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MARY KITE & AKILAH OLIVER 8:00 PM TUESDAY JUNE 3 at the Left Hand Bookstore (1200 Pearl St. #10) in Boulder. *An open reading will precede the featured readers.* Mary Kite's work has appeared in The Poetry Project Newsletter, MoMA and The Arts Paper. Her collaborative pieces include working with Kenward Elmslie and Nick Dorsky. Most recently, she acted as co-producer for The First Transcontinental Poetry Reading in Recorded History: A Dedication to Kenneth Koch, a history making poetry reading involving over seven universities and eleven poets. Akilah Oliver is a writer & teacher, the author of "the she said dialogues: flesh memory" which was recognized by PEN American Center's Beyond Margins category. Oliver currently spilts residency between Boulder & New York and is currently working on a collection, "an arriving guard of angels, thusly coming to greet..." in memory of her son, Oluchi Nwadi McDonald (1982-2003). For more information call: (303) 443-3685 The Left Hand Reading Series is an independent series presenting readings of original literary works by emerging and established writers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Laura E. Wright Serials Cataloging Dept., Norlin Library (303) 492-3923 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:31:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Cremaster (Matthew barney versus donkey kong) In-Reply-To: <003c01c32523$fe981a50$a3175581@rockefeller.edu> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Thanks, Anastasios, so much for sharing, some of the Masonic underpinnings of both Cremaster and the Chrysler building. During the Civil Rights movements in the sixties, I always remember some blacks saying the Masons and the Masonic Order were the real ones running the whole show from the Feds on down to small town America. I never quite got it cause I did not investigate. But I always wondered about the two characters from Mason leadership who showed up for my "34 degree Mason" grandfather's funeral an= d claim as much space and time as the preacher during which they invoked som= e curious sounding and undecipherable invocations. (No they did not pull out at the compass and the hammer from a leather carrying case and do a number on the body in the open coffin). However I think it important to say that Barney is taking the Masonic shtic= k (ritual game) and turning it upside down, unveiling and - in what is a counter ritual - shaking out the darkness behind the complexities and repressions in this Masonic (male) game. (I don't do Donkey Kong so I don't know if DK has any of that kind of reverb). (Now there's a concept! New poetry as "reverb" - instead of deadening or predictable "oldverb."!) Maybe Barney is able to do - and in some sense "get away" with - what he does because he never entirely separates from a kind of stage and level of entertainment - the circus clown that can both undress himself and the crowd - warts and all - while at the same time use theatrical and aesthetically entrancing visual devices to keep everyone awestruck, disbelieving, while mixing up humor, beauty and horror - and still leave th= e stage strutting.=20 Is there a poetry current that is equal in repertoire and cultural ambition= ? And does Barney read contemporary poets/novelists for influence? Or should these even be questions? Stephen Vincent on 5/28/03 7:26 AM, Anastasios Kozaitis at anastasios@HELL.COM wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: nettime-l-request@bbs.thing.net > [mailto:nettime-l-request@bbs.thing.net] On Behalf Of > nettime's_roving_reporter > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 12:11 PM > To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net > Subject: matthew barney versus donkey kong >=20 > [ via ] >=20 > s_donkey_kong.html> >=20 > game girl advance >=20 > home features archives about >=20 > May 23, 2003 > matthew barney versus donkey kong > Barney versus Donkey Kong From the Editor: >=20 > In this month's feature, Wayne Bremser compares the properties > of > Donkey Kong to the aesthetics of Matthew Barney's provocative > film, > Cremaster 3. Wayne is a writer and old-school game enthusiast. > His > current projects include Harlem.org, a jazz history site, and > BeatThief.com. It's obvious from his writing that he is skilled > and > smart; but you should also know that he brandishes a positively > wicked > sense of humor, too. He lives in San Francisco and is working on > his > first novel. >=20 > Matthew Barney's Cremaster 3 begins a serious negotiation between art > and video games. There have been exhibits and books celebrating game > design in recent years, while digital art has introduced > interactivity > into museums. Painters have created canvases with game characters. > Cremaster 3 lacks the obvious cultural references, but its absurdity, > repetition, level design and use of landscape as narrative > establishes > a stronger connection to video games than these other works. >=20 > Despite the popularity of the Cremaster films, only a small > percentage > of museumgoers have ever seen an art film. After twenty-five years of > cultural relevance, video games still do not have a serious place in > museums and galleries. Cremaster 3 is important not only because it > has attracted a wider audience to an art film, but also because it is > one of the first works of contemporary art to incorporate video game > narrative. > film and game adaptations >=20 > Most museums and galleries have ignored games, while technological > progress has drawn mainstream film and games together. This > relationship can be charted by the number of games adapted from > films. > More recently, a number of films have been based on popular video > games. Most of these films have been terrible. >=20 > Faced with adaptation, a film director has less freedom than a game > designer. Technology limitations are small obstacles compared to a > mainstream film audience that will not accept the absurd and abstract > elements found in games. Audiences will not watch a film that has no > spoken dialogue, forcing the film director to make her video game > star > speak for two painful hours. >=20 > While nuances of character remain a challenge for many designers, > games have been able to capture film environments for quite some > time. > Film to game adaptation is more successful because the medium forces > a > reduction of plot and character without sacrificing a film's > narrative > world. >=20 > Beyond adaptation, several directors have been able to translate the > compelling elements of the game medium into original films. One of > the > first successful attempts was Tron, which distilled sweeping, cool > blue silent film landscapes from early games like Battlezone and > Missile Command. Incorporating graceful motion and an element of > minimalist abstraction, the film's gladiatorial sequences are > wonderful cinema. Audiences didn't respond; Tron's arcade adaptation > was more popular and profitable than the film. >=20 > Twenty years after Tron, Cremaster 3 presents a mythic narrative > cobbled together from Masonic legend and Matthew Barney's > self-referential symbols. This is the last film in Barney's five > Cremaster films, named after the muscle that controls the rising and > lowering of the testicles. Without the expectations of a mainstream > film audience and the responsibilities of a commercial director, > Barney has the freedom to create a film loaded with the repetitive, > ritualistic and quasi-mythical elements commonly found in video > games. > Offering three dialogue-free hours of whimsy and discomfort, > Cremaster > 3 is an art world adaptation of Donkey Kong. >=20 > At a Cremaster 3 screening Richard Flood, the chief curator of the > Walker Art Center, mentioned that he had recently seen Gangs of New > York. He wondered whether Barney was "a better director than Martin > Scorsese." Answering himself, Flood said, "I think he might be." > Critics and curators should not be concerned with the comparison of > art films to commercial films, Matthew Barney versus Martin Scorsese. > Cinema's journey to get into the museum is over. Today's struggle > concerns Matthew Barney versus Donkey Kong. >=20 > creating narrative landscapes > =20 > | The Masons and Hiram Abiff >=20 > | One of the oldest fraternities, the Freemasons currently have > millions > | of members around the world. Several U.S. Presidents, including > | Washington, were Freemasons. The group was more powerful in the > 1920s, > | when Barney's Chrysler sequence is set. The Masons have many symbols, > | including the compass, ruler and other building tools, which Barney > | appropriates in his film. The fraternity is also known for secret > | handshakes and passwords. >=20 > | Tracing their origin back to biblical times, Freemasons celebrate the > | myth of Hiram Abiff, famed builder of Solomon's Temple. Before the > | temple was complete, Abiff was taunted by three ruffians who wanted > | his great knowledge. Abiff refused and was attacked by each and > | finally killed. >=20 > | Like many social orders, such as the military or priesthood, the > | Masons have created a system of levels (Entered Apprentice, > | Fellowcraft, Master Mason, Mark Master, etc). Barney's character in > | the film, the Entered Apprentice appears at the bottom of the order > | (represented by diagrams of steps or ladders). As a rite of passage, > | the candidate for Master Mason will be taken through a ritual of > three > | stages, which simulates the experience Abiff went through holding > onto > | his secrets and integrity against his three attackers. >=20 > The plot of Cremaster 3 is taken from the Masonic order and the myth > of Hiram Abiff (see sidebar), but the narrative center of the film is > found in its architectural spaces. Before being populated with > adversaries, spaces in Cremaster 3 and video games are transformed > sculpturally to create an arena for action. Barney and game designers > look for strong visual landscapes that are ripe for a character's > running, jumping, smashing and climbing. >=20 > Barney's locations include a heavy layer of personal and cultural > meaning that game designers often ignore. He builds and qualifies > levels with variations on color and light, giving the viewer signs > about the amount of danger the protagonist faces. The majority of the > film takes place in the Chrysler Building and the Guggenheim Museum > in > New York. The interiors have been altered to remove the buildings > from > reality, much in the way a game that relies on real locations focuses > on certain details and erases others to establish a backdrop that > enhances game play without getting in the way of it. >=20 > Both Barney's Entered Apprentice and Mario climb structures modified > from what architects have intended. In the Chrysler Building Barney > ascends the elevator shaft, which exposes the building's innards. In > the rivets degree of Donkey Kong, Mario must climb around an exposed, > unfinished structure, walking over rivets to remove them. The perfect > disorder of the titled girders in the ramps degree of Donkey Kong, > transformed by an enormous jumping ape, match the perfect order of > the > ramps in Guggenheim rotunda, created by the most famous American > architect. A climbing rig allows Barney to scale the rotunda, > bypassing the ramps. >=20 > In both Cremaster 3 and Donkey Kong, reaching the top level of the > structures both rewards the protagonist and punishes him for hubris. > When Mario reaches the top of the steel structures, Donkey Kong finds > a way to take Pauline away to the next screen. When Barney's Entered > Apprentice reaches the top of the Chrysler Building the film cuts to > a > scene where he suffers a setback: his teeth are knocked out. >=20 > [guggvkong.jpg] >=20 > The Entered Apprentice is then placed in the Guggenheim sequence, > which opens with naked women that introduce players to each level of > the game. The scene feels like a parody of a television quiz show > mixed with a video game's level introductions. Recall Donkey Kong > asking the player, without a wink, "How high can you get?" >=20 > | "This scene was shot in the rotunda of the Guggenheim Museum on the > | different levels and feels almost like a video game. There are five > | levels, which take on five different allegories of the five Cremaster > | chapters [films]." - Matthew Barney >=20 > In Donkey Kong and Cremaster 3 levels are determined by a combination > of architecture and dangers that await the protagonist. Each ramp of > the Guggenheim features a test, symbolizing Barney's five Cremaster > chapters, his own quasi-Masonic ritual of passage, an artist testing > his own artistic progress. Barney uses the museum space as an > interface to both confront and create art. With the tools of a Mason, > Barney calculates and smashes his way to the top of the rotunda, > leaving a trail of work cobbled together from shards of previous > generations. >=20 > Donkey Kong (arcade version) has four degrees: >=20 > * Ramps: Mario must climb steel beams that the ape has titled by > his > ferocious jumping. > * Girders: Mario must deconstruct a girder structure by removing a > series of rivets. Kong tumbles to ground. > * Elevators: Mario must jump between a set of fast moving elevators > to reach Pauline. > * Factory: In a pie factory with moving conveyor belts. >=20 > Guggenheim in Cremaster 3 has five degrees: >=20 > * Order of the Rainbow for Girls: Duck the legs of Rockette-style > women in bunny suits. > * Agnostic Front versus Murphy's Law: Recover Masonic tools in > floor > between two 1980's hardcore bands in a battle of the bands. > * Aimee Mullins: Battle beautiful woman that transforms into a > deadly cat. > * Five Points of Fellowship: Assemble one of Barney's sculptures. > * Richard Serra: Confront the sculptor tossing Vaseline. >=20 > characters and myth >=20 > Donkey Kong's myth of a man fighting a giant ape on a skyscraper has > its origin in the King Kong films. After being captured in the jungle > and brought to the city by greedy men, the largest ape in the world > climbs the tallest building in New York where he fights humans to the > death. Cremaster 3 is based on the Masonic myth of Hiram Abiff, the > architect of Solomon's Temple. Barney uses the Chrysler Building as a > character to play the temple. >=20 > The construction worker Mario moves in pursuit of Pauline, while > Barney's construction worker, the Entered Apprentice, climbs in > pursuit of the architect, Hiram Abiff. Both workers are presented > with > a single facial expression, no dialogue and no significant character > development except their determination to move ever upwards. >=20 > [barney.mario.jpg] >=20 > The hubris of the Entered Apprentice and Mario is both awarded and > punished. The ability to honor the rites is highly valued in Masonic > culture. During his climb of the Chrysler Building, Barney's Entered > Apprentice bypasses rites by casting rather than carving a Masonic > stone. He is punished by having his teeth knocked out. By jumping for > a hammer, Mario also gets the chance for an easier climb to the top. > The hammer gives Mario the power to smash the barrels headed towards > him. If he stays confident for too long, the hammer vanishes, leaving > him dashing into the deadly barrels. >=20 > Game designers populate levels with a higher concentration of > adversaries than friends. These minor adversaries have varying > degrees > of animosity towards the player. Upon the player's entrance to a new > screen, level-specific characters charge immediately or wait for a > trigger, which allows a player to observe sentries walking a beat, > workers building, monsters feeding or shitting. >=20 > The minor adversary plays an important role in Cremaster 3. With the > camera disconnected from the Entered Apprentice, Barney allows the > audience to observe ceremonies and rituals of level-specific > characters, showing us what awaits the climber at the top of the > Chrysler Building. These characters include a group of Freemasons > smoking cigars, the Cloud Club Barman and Aimee Mullins playing the > Entered Motivate. >=20 > At the top of the Chrysler Building, the Entered Apprentice interacts > with the Cloud Club Barman in silent-era comedy scene. Because of the > tilted bar, representing the uneven structure of the unfinished > temple, the Barman can't quite deliver a glass of beer to Barney > without spilling it. Besides recalling the physical humor of Chaplin > or Harold Lloyd, the scene evokes Tapper and Burger Time, funny, yet > stressful early video games in which players faced the never-ending > production of food and beverage. >=20 > The rhythms of adversaries vary dramatically in Barney's Chrysler and > Guggenheim sequences. Characters in the Chrysler sequence move slowly > and deliberately, arranging things, cutting potatoes, smoking cigars. > There is a feeling of the organic ritual operating in the world of > the > late 1920s, bodies in synch with the turning wheels of industry. Even > the dread evoked in the lobby by the 1967 Imperials smashing the 1938 > Imperial results from a precise rhythm and slow edits that give the > viewer time to anticipate. In the Guggenheim sequence the absurd mix > of adversaries are kicking, dancing and flailing. The atmosphere and > tempo of the cast recall Fellini's Roma and Satyricon. >=20 > [women.jpg] >=20 > (fay wray, pauline, aimee mullins, hungry like the wolf) >=20 > Model, athlete and double amputee Aimee Mullins plays the two primary > female characters. Many early video games, including Donkey Kong, > also > had singular female roles, where women played the fetishized captive, > goal, and prize saved for the end of the game. Barney fixates on > Mullins' truncated limbs, sculpting fetishes, elaborate prosthetic > legs for her to wear. >=20 > Barney dances with Mullins in the Guggenheim sequence, symbolizing > the > moment at which the fetus becomes either male or female. She morphs > into a feline and tussles with him, but he easily strikes her down. > This sexy pussy that scratches clich=E9 takes form in a scene > reminiscent of Duran Duran's "Hungry Like the Wolf" video. Undertones > of bestiality are also significant in the King Kong films, but are > stripped away by the primitive graphics and animation of Donkey Kong. >=20 >=20 > [serra.kong1.jpg] >=20 > Richard Serra plays Donkey Kong, waiting at the top of both New York > buildings. Serra is one of the most famous living sculptors, a great > white man from the previous century, Picasso-like in appearance, > gruff > and bald. He maintains this persona playing two roles in the film. > Both Barney and Serra are Yale alumni and, by placing him at the top > of the order in both sequences, Barney makes it clear that he > considers Serra the most important artist of the previous generation. > With this casting, Barney praises Serra as Master Mason, but also > winks at the art world's Warholian order of celebrity. >=20 >=20 > [serra.kong2.jpg] >=20 > In the Chrysler sequence Serra plays Hiram Abiff, the Architect of > Solomon's Temple. He wears a sharp suit and waits at the top of the > building drawing and constructing two pillars of black metal plates > (a > reference to temple pillars Jachin and Boaz). In the Guggenheim > sequence, Serra plays himself, donning an apron and tools with which > to mold hot metals. While Donkey Kong tosses barrels at Mario that > catch fire and populate the ramps with happy, dancing demons, Barney > engages Frank Lloyd Wright's architecture with his own hot stuff. >=20 > [serra.kong3.jpg] >=20 > Richard Serra tosses melted Vaseline at the top level of the > Guggenheim, which trickles down the rotunda. Vaseline is one of many > materials, including tapioca, which Barney has become famous for > using. The tossing is a reference to some of Serra's most important > work. Using molten lead thrown against a wall, Serra performed the > physical dance of Jackson Pollack's dripping and tossing, challenging > the assumption that sculpture is a static object on a pedestal that > is > separate from the space around it. Barney challenges the need a > sculptor like Serra has to create any physical object, instead making > his sculpture exist as characters in films. While Mario causes the > ape > to fall several stories onto his head, Barney castrates his Donkey > Kong, robbing the older artist of his material of choice. >=20 > discount myths=20 >=20 > The art world has suffered a deficiency of myth in the past fifty > years. Critics are both impressed and confounded by Matthew Barney as > mythmaker. In an article titled "Strange Sensation" Time's Richard > Lacayo calls Barney a "gee-whiz mythomaniac." "OK, it's weird," > writes > Jonathan Jones for the UK's Guardian. These critics are aware that > Barney's film is inspired by the Hiram Abiff myth, but are swept away > by fact that he dabbles in myth at all. They never refer to video > games, where myths are a dime a dozen, where characters regularly > morph shape and gender. >=20 >=20 > [starwarscremaster.jpg] >=20 > At the same time that they are overwhelmed by the films, critics have > routinely panned the sculpture that Barney has created for the > Cremaster series. Some snidely compare filling the Guggenheim with > artifacts from the films to the "The Magic Of Myth" museum show of > Star Wars costumes and props >=20 > The Guggenheim exhibit allows Barney to show Cremaster 3 in the > physical space in which the film was set; an opportunity never given > to a game designer. Barney transforms the rotunda like a designer > would. Flags and icons adorn different levels of the museum. Sounds > echo through the spiraling chamber. A spaceship attached to the > ceiling delivers scenes from Cremaster 3 on five video monitors. The > exhibit feels like a visit to watch movies and play video games in > the > finished basement of a wealthy childhood friend. The first gallery > has > elaborate cases that Barney has designed for videodisc and DVD > versions of the films. From these discs at the bottom level, up to > the > giant fantasy television that dominates the top of the rotunda, the > Cremaster exhibit is an exaltation of video, but without the game > depicted in the film. >=20 > Barney uses the building as an interface, confronting the Guggenheim > with the goal of creating a single piece of art. Barney wants each > piece of sculpture, each of video screen and the museum itself to > organically fuse into one experience. The exhibit is another > masculine > battle, an arm-wrestling match. Will Barney be able to reign in the > landscape and make it work for the piece? The stakes are high: If the > art merely reacts to the space it becomes decoration for the rotunda. >=20 > The most significant thing Barney has changed in the museum is the > light. A giant blue object covers the skylight of the building. In > the > midday sun, this dims the light and casts a blue tinge. The blanket > of > blue material is in the shape of the Cremaster logo. >=20 > Both the film and exhibit are heavily branded. Like Freemasons, game > designers and advertisers, Barney pays careful attention to logos, > colors, flags and uniforms. During its three hours, the film > sometimes > feels more like an advertisement for Barney's imagination than a > myth. > The epic cinematography is not unlike Ridley Scott's famous 1984 > Macintosh television ad. We are hammered with serious faces and > statuesque bodies. Shots of Barney climbing the elevator shaft could > be adopted by a financial firm to advertise its perseverance. By > tying > the disparate elements with the thread of ritual and mythology, > Cremaster 3 is mythic without imparting an actual story. >=20 > In both the film and the exhibit, this absence of story keeps the > viewer at a distance. The film reaches its most visually luscious > point with women in bunny suits kicking, two hardcore bands thrashing > and Matthew Barney climbing, dancing and tumbling though the > Guggenheim. It feels like watching a foreign sport that you do not > know the rules of. Barney rejects the inviting qualities of film > narrative and creates a virtual space between viewer and art that > mimics the feeling of seeing a large piece of classical sculpture in > a > museum. Don't get too close and don't touch. We aren't called to join > the parade like we are in a Fellini film. We don't feel emotionally > involved like we do in a good musical, action film or video game. We > never get to play. >=20 > Experiencing Cremaster 3 in the exhibit space of the Guggenheim > bridges the distance between viewer and art, but there is also a > sense > of loss. You are the Entered Apprentice moving up the ramps. You are > in the landscape of the game, but there are no adversaries. It's like > arriving to engage in LARP (live action role play), but finding > nobody > dressed as alchemists and orcs. Even the Star Wars exhibit had > mannequins dressed in costumes. Looking down from the top level of > the > museum, you see no punk bands or dancers. You see no naked women > frolicking in the fountain. What you see are museumgoers gawking up > at > the video screens with their backs turned to the sculpture. >=20 > While the film successfully alters the narrative landscape of the > Guggenheim to inspire characters to dance, climb and interact with > objects, the exhibit's use of the space obliterates the impulse to > action. Watching Barney on a giant video monitor toss white plastic > sculpture as you stand in the same space, next to the same objects > does more than just distract you from the sculpture. It taunts you. > The museum interface keeps your body still as the video images > violently tease you with Barney's body in action. Kafka would have > enjoyed this situation. Characters peek out from film stills on the > walls, their stoic faces and muted voices whispering: Pick it up and > throw it. At the same time the giant monitors scream at you: You are > helpless. You cannot climb. You cannot pick up the objects. You > cannot > throw them. You cannot be the epic hero. If you listen to Barney's > characters, if the art inspires you to action, you will be thrown out > on your ass to wander aimlessly around Central Park. >=20 > Barney may have successfully re-imagined the Guggenheim in the film, > but despite placing his logo over the building and changing its > light, > despite the overwhelming combination of video and sculpture, the > Cremaster exhibit fails to conquer the museum's interface. > the future of video games and art >=20 > A game adaptation of Cremaster 3 could include all of its characters, > sculpture, mythical elements and action. You could climb the rotunda, > pick up objects and toss them. You could confront punk rockers and > legless felines. Why would a game designer want to create this game? > The effort could be the first game recognized as a relevant piece of > contemporary art. It could be more compelling than the film or the > exhibit. It could even be a great game. >=20 > The dialogue between those that create games and those that decide > what is art has just started. Adaptation and the exchange of ideas > will expand what is considered fine art and what is considered a > video > game. The critical feedback that artists and cinematographers are > used > to will force designers to view their work as part of the larger > continuum of art. This will spawn some bloated egos and boring games, > but a wider set of influences and greater personal responsibility > will > inspire game designers to create engaging works of art that are also > fun to play. >=20 > The Cremaster films open today at the Castro Theatre in San > Francisco. >=20 > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg > body > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 13:49:04 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: disturbing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I find it disturbing that what the US government is doing in the Middle = East, where its military "heroes," as the local news calls them, just = murdered between eight- and ten-thousand Iraqi civilians (the figure is = still being tallied), destroyed countless buildings, infrastructure, and = cultural assets, and is now occupying two countries in the region, and = threatening a third, is not being discussed by poets on an ongoing = thread. Before the war, everyone was talking about peace marches. Now, = while the morals, economy, environment, and a democratic decentralized = media are being trashed, hardly anyone is talking at all! A few links to = stories are given. But where is the discussion? Where is the insight? = Ah, the book's been published, so we move on to the next topic. -Joel =20 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 17:02:23 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: STANZAS #34 - Aaron Peck new from above/ground press - celebrating 10 years in 2003 - STANZAS #34 Three Pieces of Glass by Aaron Peck Aaron Peck is the assistant editor at Greenboathouse books, where he is conducting a series of talks with various writers called Exact Change, along with producing chapbooks. Currently he is finishing a screenplay for the film _The Zoo Project_, which will be filmed in August. He is the author of the serial poem _Twilight Suites_, which Greenboathouse published prior to his assuming editorial responsibilities. He has collaborated with numerous Vancouver-based artists for pieces exhibited in the Surrey Art Gallery and in _Front_ magazine. His work has appeared scantily in journals and catalogues online and in print and, so he has been told, in an exhibition catalogue in New Zealand. www.greenboathouse.com free if you find it, $4 sample (add $2 international) & $20 for 5 issues (outside canada, $20 US)(payable to rob mclennan), c/o 858 somerset st w, ottawa ontario canada k1r 6r7 STANZAS magazine, for long poems/sequences, published at random in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. previous issues include work by Gil McElroy, Gary Barwin, carla milo, Gerry Gilbert, George Bowering, Sheila E. Murphy & Douglas Barbour, Lisa Samuels, Ian Whistle, Gerry Gilbert, nathalie stephens, etc. 1000 copies distributed free around various places. exchanges welcome. submissions encouraged, with s.a.s.e. & good patience (i take forever) of up to 28 pages. complete bibliography & backlist availability now on-line at www.track0.com/rob_mclennan ======= starting January 1st, 2003 - above/ground press - $30 (Canadian) per calendar year for chapbooks, asides + broadsheets (non-Canadian, $30 US). current & forthcoming publications by Andy Weaver, Artie Gold, rob mclennan, Nelson Ball, Julia Williams, Gil McElroy, Stephen Cain & Jay MillAr, Peter Norman, Donato Mancini, Barry McKinnon & others. payable to rob mclennan. (while supplies last) ======= also, check out the catalog page for GROUNDSWELL: the best of above/ground press, 1993-2003, edited by rob mclennan with an introduction by Stephen Cain, published by Broken Jaw Press as cauldron books #4. includes a complete bibliography of the press from the beginning to 2002, & reprints work by Stephanie Bolster, jwcurry, John Newlove, Michelle Desberets, Dennis Cooley, meghan jackson, carla milo, rob mclennan, George Bowering, Clare Latremouille, Rob Manery, Victor Coleman, etc. http://www.brokenjaw.com/catalog/pg82.htm -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action Network - Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw Press) ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:29:16 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Miyoshi Shoraku Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed "If any of you younger people had written a passage like that, the chanter would certainly have criticized it and refused to recite it. The same would undoubtedly have been true of the puppet operator too. It's because *I* wrote it that even a famous operator performed it exactly as written without protest. If you work very hard, someday you'll be able to write such illogical things too." --Miyoshi Shoraku, when asked why a character in his puppet play "took his master's dirk, folded a straw sandal to polish it, then cut off a branch from a tree." ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:19:26 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: disturbing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joel, Do you posit any connections between your question below and the long thread about the nature of reality to which we've been treated these last weeks? That is, if external reality is totally a phenomenon of language, wouldn't that, to some degree, deflect concern about it? After all, "countless buildings, infrastructure, and cultural assets" . . . those are all just words. "Eight to ten thousand Iraqi civilians . . ." but what is a civilian, really? Perhaps they don't even really exist. Or the variant, we can never *know* that they do . . . so let's just leave things to the professionals, the warrior caste, the people in the know . . . I don't want to seem like a complete philistine here, even though I probably am. I think any thoughtful person realizes there's an issue here. It was good to see those Spicer poems in Patrick's recent post, for example. But what that work has always meant for me is that poets negotiate the ever-shifting space between subject and object, word and reality -- that that's our province, our fate, the waterfront we cover. It's not something to argue about, particularly, it's something to explore. Words hold on to the real, he said; they're no more useful in themselves than rope. That's one way to put it. But philosophical parlor games don't mirror the world I know. They have no relevance to it. And Oppen quotes, Steve, are very much to the point. (So is Eliot Weinberger's preface to the recent *Collected Poems* edited by Michael Davidson.) Charles Bernstein told me last month that recent conversations about the relationship between poetry and politics reminded him of those in the 1930s. That got me thinking about the famous dispute between Benjamin and Adorno, which I'll summarize in another post. But for now, there might be any number of reasons why the public at large aren't talking about the middle east any more; the war, after all, is off their TV screens, not worthy of the May sweeps (American Idol is more edifying than American Idolater). But for poets not to be speaking about it . . . well, I couldn't say. Other than to repeat what I said about ten days ago: that flood of poems against the war had a short shelf life, partly because they weren't political. We don't even know what a political poem is. Joe Safdie -----Original Message----- From: Joel Weishaus [mailto:weishaus@PDX.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:49 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: disturbing I find it disturbing that what the US government is doing in the Middle East, where its military "heroes," as the local news calls them, just murdered between eight- and ten-thousand Iraqi civilians (the figure is still being tallied), destroyed countless buildings, infrastructure, and cultural assets, and is now occupying two countries in the region, and threatening a third, is not being discussed by poets on an ongoing thread. Before the war, everyone was talking about peace marches. Now, while the morals, economy, environment, and a democratic decentralized media are being trashed, hardly anyone is talking at all! A few links to stories are given. But where is the discussion? Where is the insight? Ah, the book's been published, so we move on to the next topic. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 20:36:12 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: disturbing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe we don't know what to make of it either. Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Weishaus" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 3:49 PM Subject: disturbing > I find it disturbing that what the US government is doing in the Middle East, where its military "heroes," as the local news calls them, just murdered between eight- and ten-thousand Iraqi civilians (the figure is still being tallied), destroyed countless buildings, infrastructure, and cultural assets, and is now occupying two countries in the region, and threatening a third, is not being discussed by poets on an ongoing thread. Before the war, everyone was talking about peace marches. Now, while the morals, economy, environment, and a democratic decentralized media are being trashed, hardly anyone is talking at all! A few links to stories are given. But where is the discussion? Where is the insight? Ah, the book's been published, so we move on to the next topic. > > -Joel > > > > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 02:08:40 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "david.bircumshaw" Subject: Another Poemlet Comments: To: PoetryEspresso@topica.com, Britpo MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The Emperor recluded to the Palace, to its glow of innerness. The Court servants woke, sensing accusations of inaction. 'Not so' they cried out at the hapless population in words of proclamation. Oh fuck, that rhymes, I thought and what might have been scattered like pigeons over the mush of sky. 'Not I, not I' I claimed as the shite fell somewhat on my head and his Highness settled in comfort on his bed. Best Dave David Bircumshaw Leicester, England Home Page A Chide's Alphabet Painting Without Numbers http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/index.htm ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 18:26:52 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: disturbing In-Reply-To: <9664F36261DE32409334B83B21CAEE8EB6E70D@lwtc.ctc.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I suspect that the reason we're not talking about the war on the list is not very mysterious--there's almost total agreement in this crowd, and saying amen gets very boring. It also doesn't serve much purpose. Is it in our minds every waking moment? Is it a constant source of depression and consternation? I can't speak for others except those I in fact speak with, but it is for me and those around me, and I assume it is for most of those I can't speak for. In the various ways one votes the votes of me and mine have been counted and discounted. One goes on casting the vote in all those ways. meanwhile I talk about other things except when there's a reason to talk about the war. Shared anger I guess is like an open fire--comforting on a cold night. But when the discussion is among ourselves it doesn't accomplishg much else. Mark At 04:19 PM 5/28/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Joel, > >Do you posit any connections between your question below and the long thread >about the nature of reality to which we've been treated these last weeks? > >That is, if external reality is totally a phenomenon of language, wouldn't >that, to some degree, deflect concern about it? After all, "countless >buildings, infrastructure, and cultural assets" . . . those are all just >words. "Eight to ten thousand Iraqi civilians . . ." but what is a civilian, >really? Perhaps they don't even really exist. Or the variant, we can never >*know* that they do . . . so let's just leave things to the professionals, >the warrior caste, the people in the know . . . > >I don't want to seem like a complete philistine here, even though I probably >am. I think any thoughtful person realizes there's an issue here. It was >good to see those Spicer poems in Patrick's recent post, for example. But >what that work has always meant for me is that poets negotiate the >ever-shifting space between subject and object, word and reality -- that >that's our province, our fate, the waterfront we cover. It's not something >to argue about, particularly, it's something to explore. Words hold on to >the real, he said; they're no more useful in themselves than rope. That's >one way to put it. > >But philosophical parlor games don't mirror the world I know. They have no >relevance to it. And Oppen quotes, Steve, are very much to the point. (So is >Eliot Weinberger's preface to the recent *Collected Poems* edited by Michael >Davidson.) > >Charles Bernstein told me last month that recent conversations about the >relationship between poetry and politics reminded him of those in the 1930s. >That got me thinking about the famous dispute between Benjamin and Adorno, >which I'll summarize in another post. But for now, there might be any number >of reasons why the public at large aren't talking about the middle east any >more; the war, after all, is off their TV screens, not worthy of the May >sweeps (American Idol is more edifying than American Idolater). But for >poets not to be speaking about it . . . well, I couldn't say. Other than to >repeat what I said about ten days ago: that flood of poems against the war >had a short shelf life, partly because they weren't political. We don't even >know what a political poem is. > >Joe Safdie > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joel Weishaus [mailto:weishaus@PDX.EDU] >Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:49 PM >To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >Subject: disturbing > >I find it disturbing that what the US government is doing in the Middle >East, where its military "heroes," as the local news calls them, just >murdered between eight- and ten-thousand Iraqi civilians (the figure is >still being tallied), destroyed countless buildings, infrastructure, and >cultural assets, and is now occupying two countries in the region, and >threatening a third, is not being discussed by poets on an ongoing thread. >Before the war, everyone was talking about peace marches. Now, while the >morals, economy, environment, and a democratic decentralized media are being >trashed, hardly anyone is talking at all! A few links to stories are given. >But where is the discussion? Where is the insight? Ah, the book's been >published, so we move on to the next topic. > >-Joel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 21:35:06 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: US finds evidence of WMD at last -- buried in a field near D.C. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed The fuckers in DC depress the shit out of me. I talk about it all the time but to people who do not share my views, and people hush me up and look at me in disbelief. >------ Forwarded Message >From: Sandy Mitchell >Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:03:32 -0700 >To: Bartholomew and Associates > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,965319,00.html > >US finds evidence of WMD at last -- buried in a field near [sic] Maryland > >Julian Borger in Washington >Wednesday May 28, 2003 >The Guardian > >The good news for the Pentagon yesterday was that its investigators had >finally unearthed evidence of weapons of mass destruction, including 100 >vials of anthrax and other dangerous bacteria. > >The bad news was that the stash was found, not in Iraq, but fewer than 50 >miles from Washington, near Fort Detrick in the Maryland countryside. > >The anthrax was a non-virulent strain, and the discoveries are apparently >remnants of an abandoned germ warfare programme. They merited only a local >news item in the Washington Post. > >But suspicious finds in Iraq have made front-page news (before later being >cleared), given the failure of US military inspection teams to find evidence >of the weapons that were the justification for the March invasion. > >For complete article: >http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,965319,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:00:29 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: noah eli gordon Subject: Summi Kaipa and Noah Eli Gordon read this Sunday in Boston Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed a reading with Summi Kaipa and Noah Eli Gordon Sunday June 1st 5pm WordsWorth Books 30 Brattle Street, Cambridge, MA 02138 Phone: 617 354-5201 or 1-800-899-2202 Summi Kaipa received her MFA in Creative Writing at the University of Iowa. Her first chapbook, The Epics, was published by Leroy Press in December 1999. Critical and creative works have appeared in In These Times, San Francisco Bay Guardian, Rain Taxi, St. Mark's Poetry Project Newsletter, Chain, Rhizome, Kenning, Combo and Fourteen Hills Review. This year, Kaipa (with Eileen Tabios) was awarded the 2002 Potrero Nuevo Fund Prize , administered by New Langton Arts, for the project, Intercept: To Thwart, Cradle, Exchange, a project promoting Asian American literary arts. As part of the project, Kaipa invited Tabios to guest edit an issue of Interlope (#8), themed around Filipina/o American writers. Kaipa lives in San Francisco, where she works for the Margaret Jenkins Dance Company, serves on the board of Rova:Arts (the nonprofit umbrella of the Rova Saxophone Quartet), and is a co-curator of the Alliance of Emerging Creative Artists (www.thisisaeca.org). Noah Eli Gordon is one of the editors for Baffling Combustions. His first book, The Frequencies, is forthcoming from Tougher Disguises Press. Recent poems are forthcoming from Hambone, Volt, Syllogism and others. His reviews and criticism appear in or are forthcoming from Sentence, The Poker, Raintaxi, Boston Review, Slope, Jacket, Word for Word, and others. He is the publisher of a new chapbook series through Braincase press, featuring silk-screened covers by the artist Michael Labenz. Look for chapbooks from Nick Moudry, Sara Veglahn and Juliana Leslie late this summer. Noah lives in Northampton, MA. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 23:11:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lipman, Joel A." Subject: DISTRESSING THREAD: Blecher: Intellectuals, Democracy and American Empire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3258F.F01C75DB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3258F.F01C75DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Postwar post. JL Cc:=09 Subject: Fwd: [JPN] Blecher: Intellectuals, Democracy and American = Empire Note: forwarded message attached. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3258F.F01C75DB content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_003_01C31FCA.6C757E00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =20 Yahoo! Groups My Groups = | JewishPeaceNews Main Page = =09 = =09 [In late March, with the war on Iraq in full swing, Robert Blecher,=20 who did his graduate work at Stanford and now teaches at the=20 University of Richmond, wrote the following illuminating essay for=20 the Middle East Report on the about-face of prominent intellectuals=20 and pundits who write about and sometimes set policy on the Middle=20 East. Blecher reveals, in an essay that is perhaps even more=20 relevant today than it was two months ago, the strange political=20 convergence of intellectuals who range across the political spectrum=20 from liberal to ultra-conservative. In the early 1990s, most of=20 these figures -- academics, political commentators, government=20 officials -- resisted the notion that American-style democracy could=20 be introduced into or imposed upon contemporary Middle Eastern=20 regimes; and, even if it could, they seemed to feel that such a=20 change would not likely serve American interests. A decade later,=20 however, the views of many of these prominent figures have changed=20 drastically, but with little or no acknowledgment of this reversal of=20 beliefs. In the new millenium, the prevailing view seems to ever=20 more closely reflect the "Washington consensus": that America can and=20 must bring democracy fashioned in its own image to a radically=20 reconfigured Middle East. Blecher describes not only the=20 questionable logic that this new consensus entails and the=20 fundamentally contemptuous narrative of world history and culture=20 that it reflects. He also shows that while those who have=20 articulated these views claim that the new era is marked by=20 unprecedented historical transformations that have altered the=20 international political climate -- September 11th being the clarion=20 call -- these same intellectuals and policy figures conceal what is=20 perhaps the most significant change: the American leadership's=20 willingness to invade, control and remake entire regions of the world=20 in the name of bringing "freedom." This "imperial enthusiasm" is at=20 the heart of the recent political convergence of traditional liberals=20 and neo-conservatives; it is an attitude that informs what Blecher=20 describes as a new and deeply troubling iteration of the old=20 complicity between power and knowledge. --LS] http://www.merip.org/mero/interventions/blecher_interv.html Interventions: A Middle East Report Online Feature "Free People Will Set the Course of History" Intellectuals, Democracy and American Empire Robert Blecher The Middle East Research and Information Project (MERIP) (Robert Blecher teaches history at the University of Richmond.) March 2003 As the Bush administration struggled to find a justification for=20 launching an attack on Iraq, churning out sketchy intelligence=20 reports about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and links with=20 al-Qaeda, Washington wordsmiths produced their own grist for the war=20 mill: the prospect of a democratic pax americana in the Middle East.=20 The importance of the pundits' contribution to the war machine should=20 not be underestimated. As the task of swaying public opinion grew=20 more difficult, rhetoric around freedom and democracy has become ever=20 more central. In the weeks after September 11, 2001, George W. Bush=20 did not talk of remaking the Middle East. But in successive State of=20 the Union addresses, commencement speeches, press conferences and=20 televised appeals to the nation, Bush showed increasing faith in the=20 ability of the US to extirpate tyranny and implant freedom in this=20 agonized region. Presidents did not always profess belief in the region's democratic=20 potential, nor did the intellectuals who served them. At the time of=20 the 1991 Gulf war, shapers of public opinion such as Bernard Lewis=20 and Daniel Pipes toed the first Bush administration's line that=20 Washington should not aim to democratize the Middle East. But by the=20 leadup to the junior Bush's war on Iraq, the same thinkers and=20 pundits had reoriented their policy prescriptions, in many cases=20 directly contradicting their writings of a decade ago. Employing=20 their prodigious skills to trumpet the golden age of democracy, they=20 have set aside their former convictions to serve power. The push for American Empire has arisen from the convergence of=20 diverse ideological streams. Reaganite neo-conservatives such as=20 William Kristol and Robert Kagan leveraged the language of national=20 security to ally themselves with unreconstructed Cold Warriors like=20 Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. Yet given the lukewarm popular=20 support for the war in Iraq, the march to war could not have=20 succeeded without the assistance of Establishment academics and=20 journalists such as Fouad Ajami and Thomas Friedman, whose mainstream=20 credentials legitimized the administration's agenda among those who=20 otherwise might have been opposed. Rooted in the language of national=20 security and democracy, American Empire has been enabled by a=20 convergence -- not the congruence -- of political agendas.=20 Neo-conservatives, traditional conservatives and plain old-fashioned=20 liberals have formed a coalition of Iraq hawks whose spilling of ink=20 has been but a pale precursor to the spilling of Iraqi blood. Those Elusive Jeffersonians The first Gulf war was fought with little optimism and no sense of=20 historical mission. Democracy reigned triumphant, but not in the=20 Arab world. With the fall of the USSR and the Communist regimes of=20 Eastern Europe, the US won the Cold War not through invasion or=20 occupation, but through a long-term test of endurance. The eviction=20 of Iraq from Kuwait notwithstanding, US interests continued to be=20 served by Cold War strategy in the post-Gulf war Middle East.=20 Containment targeted Iran and Iraq. Belief in the importance of=20 regional policemen, rooted in the Nixon Doctrine, dictated alliance=20 formation. Stability was provided by Egypt, Israel, Turkey and Saudi=20 Arabia, their undemocratic features not only overlooked but=20 encouraged. These limited goals were reflected in Bush the Elder's=20 war aims: securing Saudi oil fields, reversing Iraqi aggression in=20 Kuwait and restoring Kuwait's ruling family. The Middle East, it seemed, had been left out of the democratic=20 revolution. As Colin Powell, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff=20 under Bush the Elder, told a press briefing in 1992: Saddam Hussein is a terrible person, he is a threat to his own=20 people. I think his people would be better off with a different=20 leader, but there is this sort of romantic notion that if Saddam=20 Hussein got hit by a bus tomorrow, some Jeffersonian democrat is=20 waiting in the wings to hold popular elections. (Laughter.) You're=20 going to get -- guess what -- probably another Saddam Hussein. It=20 will take a little while for them to paint the pictures all over the=20 walls again -- (laughter) -- but there should be no illusions about=20 the nature of that country or its society. And the American people=20 and all of the people who second-guess us now would have been=20 outraged if we had gone on to Baghdad and we found ourselves in=20 Baghdad with American soldiers patrolling the streets two years later=20 still looking for Jefferson. (Laughter.) Disarming his audience with jocular racism, Powell expressed his=20 government's pessimism about bringing democracy to the Middle East.=20 Eleven years later, on the eve of a new Gulf war, Powell would say=20 that a US victory "could fundamentally reshape the Middle East in a=20 powerful, positive way,"[1] but in the early 1990s, the US=20 administration believed that democracy could be achieved only through=20 mass popular action. President Bush called on Iraqis to "take matters=20 into their own hands," encouraging them to do what peoples across=20 Eastern Europe had done to topple their own undemocratic regimes.=20 Prior to April 1991, even hawkish groups such as the Committee for=20 Security and Progress in the Gulf -- a forerunner to the group of the=20 same name formed in 1998 -- limited their agendas to reversing the=20 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait. Then the brutal repression of Kurdish and=20 Shi'i rebellions convinced the neo-conservative wing of the=20 Republican Party of the necessity of overthrowing Saddam Hussein. In=20 April 1991, a spate of editorials and op-eds in the Wall Street=20 Journal urged the US to intervene to protect the Shi'a and Kurds. The=20 importance of regime change was articulated as a moral necessity, yet=20 today's shapers of public opinion had little to say about democracy=20 per se. Democracy did not figure high on the list of US priorities for most=20 of the past decade. One could argue, in fact, that the Middle East=20 became a good deal less democratic over these years. Jordan and Egypt=20 reversed the limited democratic reforms they had instituted in the=20 1980s. After Islamists won the 1992 vote in Algeria, the ruling party=20 canceled the elections, leading to a bloody civil war. In Palestine=20 Yasser Arafat, with the support and encouragement of Israel and the=20 United States, set up a nightwatchman quasi-state that spent more=20 than one third of its budget on the police and security apparatus.=20 The "Damascus spring" that followed the death of Syrian President=20 Hafiz al-Asad in June 2000 has morphed into a bitter cold winter of=20 despair. The hints in the early 1990s that the Saudi monarchy would=20 implement democratic reforms, including a consultative council,=20 evaporated; the regime, in the face of mounting internal criticism,=20 repressed dissent even more brutally. Faced with similar pressures,=20 until quite recently the ruling family in Bahrain also refused to=20 open its political system, kicking off a period of civil unrest.=20 Yemen endured a civil war, which ended with the occupation of the=20 south by the north under the guise of unification. In the 1999=20 election, Yemeni president Ali Abdallah Salih supposedly garnered=20 more than 96 percent of the vote -- a margin that is relatively low=20 by the standards of the region, where elections have become an index=20 of repression, not choice. Perhaps the most egregious example is Kuwait. After promising=20 democratic reforms in return for the US backing, the Al Sabah family=20 failed to reinstate the constitution, delayed elections for the=20 National Assembly and still does not permit women to vote. When=20 questioned about the ruling family's poor record, Bush retorted, "The=20 war wasn't fought about democracy in Kuwait." Privately, the Kuwaitis=20 were getting the same message. Nazir Al Sabah, the Kuwaiti=20 ambassador, reported: "I saw the president the other day on Friday=20 (June 7, [1991]) and he walked up to me in the White House and said:=20 'Listen, Mr. Ambassador, we didn't fight this war for democracy or=20 those [war] trials. Don't be intimidated by what's going on.'"[2]=20 Deputy Assistant Secretary of State David Mack found himself turning=20 verbal somersaults to avoid calling for democracy, instead calling=20 upon Kuwait's rulers to "maximize internal political participation in=20 accordance with all traditional institutions."[3] James Schlesinger, a former defense secretary, forthrightly summed up=20 the US position on democracy in the Middle East: "Do we seriously=20 want to change the institutions of Saudi Arabia? The brief answer is=20 no; over the years we have sought to preserve these institutions,=20 sometimes in preference to more democratic forces coursing throughout=20 the region. King Fahd [of Saudi Arabia] has stated quite=20 unequivocally that democratic institutions are not appropriate for=20 this society. What is interesting is that we do not seem to=20 disagree."[4] Same Pipes, Different Tune Today's Iraq hawks agreed fully with the administration's position.=20 Soon after the invasion of Kuwait in August 1990, they warned that=20 democracy was unlikely to come to the Middle East. Daniel Pipes,=20 director of the Middle East Forum and founder of Campus Watch, a=20 website dedicated to policing academics who study the Middle East,=20 pushed the line that Hussein's successor would be someone in the=20 military. Succession would be based on power, not principles, leading=20 Pipes to echo Bush's position that a "stable, defensible and=20 non-bellicose" Iraq was the best conceivable outcome.[5] Democracy=20 did not figure in the equation. If the Iraqi regime was to be=20 overthrown, it would be through a popular uprising, not foreign=20 intervention: "It is now up to the Iraqis themselves to dispose of=20 Saddam Hussein and his evil clique." Such a result was likely, Pipes=20 thought. On the first anniversary of the Gulf war, Pipes incorrectly=20 predicted, "Desert Storm is likely to lead to Saddam's eventual=20 overthrow."[6] Like Colin Powell, Pipes in late 1991 preferred to see Saddam Hussein=20 remain in power: Iraqis, their neighbors and the outside world have all been served=20 reasonably well by the delicate balance of power of the past nine=20 months which leaves Iraq neither too strong nor too weak. And we=20 still are. Yet this balance is a one-time thing; when undone, it is=20 permanently gone. Now, as then, getting rid of Saddam increases the=20 prospects of Iraqi civil war, Iranian and Syrian expansionism,=20 Kurdish irredentism and Turkish instability. Do we really want to=20 open these cans of worms? The only way to avoid these consequences of toppling Hussein,=20 according to Pipes, was "a very intrusive and protracted US military=20 presence in Iraq." He counseled against such a course: And here we revert to last year's dilemma: after American forces=20 directly unseat Saddam and occupy Iraq, what next? There were no good=20 answers to this question in 1990, and there are none today. If the=20 administration calculates costs, it will reach the same prudent=20 conclusion it reached early in 1991: don't stimulate regional havoc,=20 don't take direct responsibility for deciding the future of Iraq and=20 don't risk losing American lives -- probably many more than were lost=20 in Desert Storm -- on behalf of vague and undefined aims. We all want=20 Saddam gone; but unless Americans are prepared for an unlimited=20 occupation of Iraq, we'd do better letting the Iraqis get rid of=20 him.[7] Given this persuasive case against occupying Iraq, one could easily=20 mistake Pipes for an anti-war activist. It was not, however, a sense=20 of solidarity with the Iraqi people that motivated these sentiments,=20 as the following calumny reveals: [The Middle East] is also a region which marches to its own beat, and=20 nearly immune to such happy global developments as democratization,=20 increased respect for human rights and greater scope for the=20 market.... Details shift but the basic picture remains surprisingly=20 stagnant. Americans should learn to keep their aspirations modest when it comes=20 to the Middle East. With the exception of the Middle East's two=20 democracies, Turkey and Israel, Washington should keep its distance.=20 To get too involved permits the misdeeds and failures of others to=20 become our own. Our will and our means are limited: we probably=20 cannot reconstruct Iraq as we did Japan or Germany. Nor is our=20 example likely to prevail; Egyptians and Saudis have little use for=20 our political system. The Daniel Pipes of 1992 is characterized by an unmitigated pessimism=20 about the prospects for Middle East democracy. Even Germany and=20 Japan, which later would become examples of successful US=20 nation-building, are inappropriate models for "stagnant" Arab=20 societies mired in the past. For all its strength, US power was seen=20 as limited, to be used sparingly, in a region that had been bypassed=20 by the New World Order: This is not a call for disengagement, much less isolationism. As in=20 the case of Iraqi aggression, the US government should use its=20 influence to address specific problems: the security of Israel, the=20 stability of moderate Arab regimes, the free-flow of oil, and the=20 suppression of terrorism. But it must know its limits and not believe=20 that the region is amenable to improvements along American lines.[8] A decade after the 1991 Gulf war, Pipes has radically changed his=20 tune. Abandoning his previous concerns about the complications that=20 would arise from a US occupation of Iraq, he urged George W. Bush to=20 move on Baghdad: "the risks are overrated."[9] In 2002, on MSNBC's=20 "Buchanan and Press," he directly contradicted his earlier comments=20 about the potential for Arab democracy: "It's in our interests that=20 they modernize and it's in our interests to help them modernize and I=20 think we know how. We are very modern and we can help them. Look,=20 we've done that elsewhere. Look, for example, at Japan. We defeated=20 the Japanese and then we guided them towards a democracy. We did the=20 same with Germany. We should be doing the same thing with Iraq."=20 Japan and Germany suddenly have become viable models for the region=20 to emulate. The US occupation of Iraq might not be so bad, since the=20 US now has the opportunity to "modernize" the Middle East, or in=20 terms of what Pipes rejected in 1992, the region now seems to be=20 "amenable to improvements along American lines." The US-led New World=20 Order has finally made it to the Middle East: "The United States=20 cannot pass up a unique chance to remake the world's most politically=20 fevered region."[10] Pipes has become a supporter of American Empire. Same Hama, Different Rules Pipes is not the only figure to have reversed himself. Thomas=20 Friedman, journalist and self-appointed itinerant ambassador,=20 established his credentials as a Middle East expert with his first=20 book, From Beirut to Jerusalem. Therein he coined the term "Hama=20 rules" (referring to Hafiz al-Asad's bloody repression of Islamist=20 revolts in the Syrian city of Hama) to describe the guiding principle=20 of politics in the Middle East: rule or die. This truculent logic=20 informed his take on the Gulf war of 1990-91, which he saw as a=20 mechanism to restore the status quo: "This war was not about=20 healing.... This war was never about competing visions for the future=20 of the Arab world. It was about a thief who had to be stopped."[11]=20 By 2003, he had decided the US was powerful enough to break the hold=20 of Hama rules and create real change in the Middle East: "[O]ur kids=20 will have a better chance of growing up in a safer world if we help=20 put Iraq on a more progressive path and stimulate some real change in=20 an Arab world that is badly in need of reform."[12] Or take Richard Haass, director of the State Department's Policy=20 Planning Staff. In 1997, he described the notion that the US would be=20 the world's only great power as "beyond our reach.... It simply is=20 not doable." In terms of democracy, he stated forthrightly: "Primacy=20 cannot be confused with hegemony. The United States cannot compel=20 others to become more democratic."[13] By 2002, he had become a=20 spokesman for what the US could do instead of what it could not do to=20 spread democracy: "By failing to help foster gradual paths to=20 democratization in many of our important relationships -- by creating=20 what might be called a 'democratic exception' -- we missed an=20 opportunity to help these countries became more stable, more=20 prosperous, more peaceful and more adaptable to the stresses of a=20 globalizing world. It is not in our interest -- or that of the people=20 living in the Muslim world -- for the United States to continue this=20 exception. US policy will be more actively engaged in supporting=20 democratic trends in the Muslim world than ever before."[14] Intellectuals who made their reputation within the academy have been=20 no more consistent. Take, for instance, Fouad Ajami. In 1990, Ajami=20 railed against the prospect of the US bringing democracy to the=20 Middle East: "The US is in the Gulf to defend order.... We're not=20 there to impose our rules. The injection of questions of democracy=20 into the debate is completely inappropriate."[15] Yet 13 years later,=20 he advocates precisely such an injection. In a recent article in=20 Foreign Affairs, Ajami rejects the restraint with which the US=20 conducted itself in 1991, arguing that the "dread of=20 'nation-building' must be cast aside." Ajami throws in his lot with=20 those who "envisage a more profound American role in Arab political=20 life: the spearheading of a reformist project that seeks to modernize=20 and transform the Arab landscape. Iraq would be the starting point,=20 and beyond lies an Arab political and economic tradition and culture=20 whose agonies and failures have been on cruel display." As with=20 Pipes, the rehabilitation of Japan gives Ajami hope that an "opening=20 for democracy" is emerging in the Middle East: "The theatrics and=20 megalomania of Douglas MacArthur may belong to a bygone age, but Iraq=20 could do worse than having the interim stewardship of a modern-day=20 high commissioner who would help usher it toward a normal world."=20 While the advertising consultants try to steer the US administration=20 away from the language of empire, intellectuals are not constrained=20 by marketing strategies. Ajami's rhetoric confirms that the Mandate=20 -- the internationally sanctioned occupation of the inter-war period=20 that aimed to "raise up subject peoples" -- is the imperial form of=20 choice for Iraq.[16] "Bernard Has Taught Us How" Bernard Lewis rejects Ajami's open invocation of empire, yet his=20 writings mesh with the American imperial agenda. Overall, Lewis has=20 evinced a remarkable continuity over his half-century career, yet on=20 the narrow issue of what the US can do to remake the Middle East, he=20 too seems to have shifted his position over the past decade. In 1990,=20 laying the roots for Samuel Huntington's later work, Lewis wrote the=20 world faced a "clash of civilizations" that pitted "Judeo-Christian"=20 against "Muslim" culture. Islam was not monolithic, Lewis was quick=20 to point out, as "fundamentalism" was only one of many Islamic=20 traditions: "There are others, more tolerant, more open, that helped=20 to inspire the great achievements of Islamic civilization in the=20 past, and we may hope that these other traditions will in time=20 prevail." It is specifically violent Islam that has shaped Lewis'=20 recent cultural theorizing and authorizes his prescriptions for US=20 policy, yet he was more catholic in presenting the dilemmas that=20 confronted the region in the wake of the 1991 Gulf war: "[T]here will=20 be a hard struggle, in which we of the West can do little or nothing.=20 Even the attempt might do harm, for these are issues that Muslims=20 must decide among themselves."[17] Decide among themselves. This rhetoric of choice has been a=20 consistent feature of Lewis's thought for more than 50 years, dating=20 to his first monograph, The Arabs in History. In 1950, Lewis wrote=20 that Arabs, faced with "problems of readjustment," had three choices:=20 taking on some version of "modern civilization," rejecting "the West=20 and all its works, pursuing the mirage of a return to the lost=20 theocratic ideal" or "renewing their society from within, meeting the=20 West on terms of equal cooperation." Over the next four decades, the=20 Arabs did not live up the hope Lewis had placed in them, but the Gulf=20 war seemed to widen the space for the Arabs to make the right choice.=20 In the rebellion of the Kurds and the Shi'a, he saw the possibility=20 of a new age: It may turn out that the civil war that destroyed Lebanon was a pilot=20 project for the whole region, and that with very few exceptions=20 states will disintegrate into a chaos of squabbling, fighting sects,=20 tribes and regions.... Or it may be that the peoples of the region=20 will free themselves at last from the politics of bribery, cajolery,=20 blackmail and force, and find their way to the freer and better life=20 to which they have so long aspired. The important change is that the=20 choice is now their own.[18] Even as Saddam Hussein slaughtered the Kurds and Shi'a, Lewis=20 retained his conviction that only the peoples of the region could=20 remake their future: "For the first time in more than two centuries,=20 this choice is entirely their own.... Those who care about the Middle=20 East and its peoples can only hope that they will choose well and=20 soon."[19] Today, Lewis is still waiting for the Arabs to figure it out. His=20 recent bestseller, What Went Wrong?, like his The Middle East: A=20 Brief History of the Past 2,000 Years, presents a familiar choice: If the peoples of the Middle East continue on their present path, the=20 suicide bomber may become a metaphor for the whole region, and there=20 will be no escape from a downward spiral of hate and spite, rage and=20 self-pity, poverty and oppression, culminating sooner or later in yet=20 another alien domination.... If they can abandon grievance and=20 victimhood, settle their differences, and join their talents,=20 energies, and resources in a common creative endeavor, than they can=20 once again make the Middle East, in modern times as it was in=20 antiquity and the Middle Ages, a major center of civilization. For=20 the time being, the choice is their own.[20] The rhetoric of choice implies agnosticism about what the future=20 holds. As Lewis wondered during the 1991 Gulf war, "Will there be=20 more of the same, or can one really hope for democratization in the=20 Arab world?"[21] This agnosticism, however, is disingenuous because=20 it is embedded in a historical narrative that removes the uncertainty=20 that lies at the root of any real question. The narrative of his book=20 -- in fact, his entire oeuvre -- updates "decline theory," that is,=20 the notion that the Ottoman Empire was once a great civilization but=20 began a steady and uninterrupted decline in the sixteenth century.=20 Lewis extends this methodology from Ottoman history into the popular=20 realm, showing how Arab "problems of readjustment" (1950) or their=20 "spiral of hate and rage" (2003) stem from their inability to cope=20 with the modern world. This overarching trajectory removes the=20 uncertainty that Lewis affects; it is not a question of his=20 earnestness, but rather the pessimism that suffuses his writing. He=20 would have us believe that history is bi-directional, but the inertia=20 of his narrative runs in one direction only. Without someone or=20 something to arrest the decline, his structure -- if not his words --=20 tell us that the Middle East is destined only for more of the same. Enter imperial America and it neo-conservative architects. US=20 hegemony, for Lewis, offers the hope of rescuing a fallen people from=20 their state of degradation. Not only will the US promote values of=20 freedom and democracy; it promises salvation as the one power that=20 can stand against the inexorable historical trajectory that is=20 pulling the Middle East downward. George W. Bush recently articulated=20 this historical mission: "We meet here during a crucial period in the=20 history of our nation and of the civilized world. Part of that=20 history was written by others; the rest will be written by us."[22]=20 Theorists of decline such as Lewis could not agree more. As they=20 would have it, ever since Ottoman vitality petered out four centuries=20 ago, the West has provided the ideas, inspiration and means to move=20 the Middle East into the modern world. Left to their own devices,=20 Arabs are destined to remain in the misery they have chosen for=20 themselves. This explains why Lewis wrote in 1996 -- when internal=20 opposition constituted the only possible path to toppling Hussein --=20 that "in Iraq and Syria, an overthrow of the present dictators is=20 unlikely to lead to the immediate establishment of a workable=20 democracy."[23] The neo-conservatives, for their part, appreciate Lewis since he=20 provides more than just an air of academic respectability for the=20 administration's program. He offers a raison d'etre for US hegemony=20 in the Middle East. Paul Wolfowitz, the administration's main=20 proponent for toppling Saddam Hussein, told a conference in Tel Aviv,=20 "Bernard has taught [us] how to understand the complex and important=20 history of the Middle East and use it to guide us where we will go=20 next to build a better world for generations."[24] In 1998, Lewis=20 signed an open letter to President Bill Clinton that called for the=20 toppling of Saddam Hussein with a massive bombing campaign and, if=20 need be, ground troops. Co-signers included not only the=20 neo-conservative pundits William Kristol and Robert Kagan, and the=20 =FCber-hawk Richard Perle, but also Bush appointees who have shaped the=20 administration's policy: Elliott Abrams, Richard Armitage, John=20 Bolton, Douglas Feith, Zalmay Khalilzad, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul=20 Wolfowitz. These blossoming links explain why Lewis was invited to participate=20 in a meeting of the Defense Advisory Board on September 19, 2001 and=20 subsequent meetings with Bush and Cheney. Lewis won't say what was=20 discussed at these meetings, but they are said to have been=20 influential in promoting Wolfowitz's agenda to attack Iraq.[25] One=20 report characterized Lewis as endorsing the line that the US "was=20 guilty of 'betrayals'" of the Iraqi people when it failed to support=20 their uprisings in both 1991 and 1995. He promoted the Iraqi=20 oppositional groups as viable, as the best hope for stable democracy=20 in the Middle East.[26] He told Bush and Cheney, like other=20 officials, that the time had come to act for the peoples of Iraq.[27]=20 By late 2002, as the US war machine was gearing up, he told a=20 conference at AEI that he is "cautiously optimistic" about the=20 prospect for developing a democratic regime in Iraq.[28] Elsewhere,=20 he declared himself "very optimistic" about a post-war Iraq: I think Iraq in many way is the most advanced, most developed of the=20 Arab countries.... Although all this has suffered terrible damage at=20 the hands of Saddam Hussein, it has not been entirely destroyed. I=20 see the possibility of a genuinely enlightened and progressive and --=20 yes, I will say the word -- democratic regime arising in a=20 post-Saddam Iraq.[29] Lewis has remained consistent in his assessment that even the most=20 optimistic of scenarios will come to pass slowly. In 1996, he wrote:=20 "Democracy cannot be born like Aphrodite from the sea foam. It comes=20 in slow stages."[30] More recently, he said that the US cannot simply=20 install an American-style democracy; it is "unrealistic" to think=20 that a political system can be engineered overnight, especially if it=20 appears to be the result of "forced change by an external force."[31]=20 Today, however, the US can create the conditions under which Iraqi=20 and Middle Eastern peoples might make, at long last, the correct=20 choice. US tutelage will arrest their centuries-long period of=20 decline and restore the grandeur of antiquity. For the Lewis of 2003,=20 unlike the Lewis of 1990, the West has an active role to play in this=20 process. The agnostic has become a believer. Making the Right Choice Like the stewards of American policy, Lewis thinks that political=20 culture can be remade by simply opening the playing field and=20 allowing Iraqis to make the right choice. While some in the State=20 Department do not find the democracy domino theory credible,[32] the=20 neo-conservatives have been assuming that once Iraq gets on the right=20 track, other countries will hop on the democratic bandwagon. Choice,=20 however, has not always been a viable mechanism for change, since at=20 certain moments when peoples of the Middle East have made choices --=20 in Iran in 1953, for example -- the US forcibly reversed them. The=20 rhetoric of choice obscures the fact that US policy will necessarily=20 involve the use of military might. Administration officials have=20 spoken only vaguely about their plans for specific countries, but=20 when they do, one gets the feeling that the spread of democracy might=20 not be smooth as their optimistic rhetoric implies. When=20 Undersecretary of State John Bolton found himself in front of a=20 friendly crowd in Israel, for instance, he proclaimed with=20 uncharacteristic forthrightness "that he has no doubt America will=20 attack Iraq, and that it will be necessary to deal with threats from=20 Syria, Iran and North Korea afterwards."[33] Democracy, it seems,=20 will grow out of the barrel of a gun. Yet even once the democratic "choice" is made, US interests will not=20 be assured, since new democratic polities could disregard US cues.=20 French and German democracy has not been a great boon to the current=20 administration. Iraq's non-democratic neighbors are providing the=20 greatest assistance to the US, whereas relatively democratic Turkey=20 has caused consternation among Washington planners. Even beyond the=20 war, continued US support for Israel, demands for basing rights and=20 efforts to extract greater oil profits could inflame public opinion,=20 which in turn would produce restraints on governmental cooperation.=20 At the very least, a government accountable to its people would=20 demand concessions from the US in exchange for cooperation, which is=20 perhaps why Douglas Feith recommended to an AEI conference in 1998=20 that the US push a notion of democracy built around limited=20 government and personal freedoms, not majority rule.[34] Bernard=20 Lewis is similarly apprehensive about democracy running amok. While=20 he rails against the "deep-seated, insidious prejudice...[that] Arabs=20 are incapable of democratic institutions," he nevertheless cautions=20 that "we should be realistic in our expectations. Democracy is strong=20 medicine, which has to be administered in small gradually increasing=20 doses otherwise you risk killing the patient"; Hitler, after all,=20 came to power "in a free and fair election."[35] Lewis worries that=20 that democracy will give Arabs the chance to choose wrongly,=20 disappointing him once again, as they have done repeatedly over his=20 career. For Feith and Lewis, democracy needs to be scaled back, lest=20 the US actually get the robust democracy that the Bush administration=20 claims to want. Conservative intellectuals in the US, for their part, have not=20 hesitated to make the right choice, allying themselves with US=20 Empire. They have recently attacked the field of Middle East Studies=20 for failing to pay homage to the "essentially beneficent role in the=20 world" that the US plays.[36] In dubbing the entire field a=20 "failure," servants of empire such as Martin Kramer have implied that=20 scholarship on the Middle East is of value only inasmuch as it=20 supports US policy. By this standard, the Iraq hawks have succeeded=20 mightily. Accommodating themselves to the political fashion of the=20 day, they have prioritized political expediency over intellectual=20 rigor and consistency. Middle East academics have been accused of=20 "groupthink" and illegitimately politicizing their scholarship, but=20 ironically, it is the Iraq hawks whose work is politicized in the=20 most literal sense, reflecting policy groupthink and the Washington=20 consensus. Are Japan and Germany suitable models for reconstructing=20 Iraq? Is the "injection of the question of democracy" in the Middle=20 East appropriate? Is the region "amenable to improvements along=20 American lines"? Can the US military create the conditions for=20 democracy? The Iraq hawks now answer these questions in the=20 affirmative even though very little has changed in the region to give=20 hope to the partisans of democracy. Much has changed elsewhere, of course. The murder of over 3,000=20 civilians on September 11 gave renewed impetus to American hegemony=20 and stripped away the public's hesitation to project force around the=20 globe. It is this change that accounts for the consensus that=20 includes establishment commentators and neo-conservative=20 rabble-rousers. As they would have it, the potential for=20 democratization has arisen from the fortuitous coincidence of Saddam=20 Hussein's obstinacy and American beneficence. Leaving aside the=20 question of US intentions, this formulation omits a third aspect of=20 the current historical conjuncture: the newfound American willingness=20 to occupy nations and remake them in its image. The US has used force=20 on previous occasions to overthrow governments. What distinguishes=20 the current moment -- and the Iraq hawks' about-face since the 1991=20 Gulf war -- is the apparent zeal to inculcate a new set of political=20 and cultural sensitivities among an entire people. This imperial=20 enthusiasm is specious, however, in that talk of democracy is little=20 more than a mechanism for creating compliant states that will=20 "choose" to further US interests. As the US military has wielded its=20 weapons in the service of American Empire, so too have its=20 intellectual boosters. Footnotes [1] Quoted in Daniel Pipes, "America: Be Ambitious After Iraq,"=20 Jerusalem Post, February 12, 2003. [2] United Press International, July 5, 1991. [3] Louise Lief, "Kuwait's Fight for Democracy," US News &World=20 Report, May 13, 1991. [4] Quoted in Alain Gresh, "The Legacy of Desert Storm: A European=20 Perspective," Journal of Palestine Studies 26/4 (Summer 1997). Gresh=20 offers a similar laundry list of setbacks for democracy in the Middle=20 East. [5] Pipes, "Why Arabs Aren't Rioting," Wall Street Journal (Europe),=20 January 23, 1991. [6] Pipes, "One Year Later: Was Operation Desert Storm Worth It?"=20 Philadelphia Inquirer, January 16, 1992. [7] Pipes, "Let the Iraqis Get Rid of Saddam," Washington Post,=20 December 22, 1991. [8] Pipes, "After Desert Storm, No Real Change in the Middle East,"=20 Jewish Exponent, January 17, 1992. [9] Pipes and Jonathan Schanzer, "On to Baghdad? Yes -- The Risks Are=20 Overrated," New York Post, December 3, 2001. [10] Pipes, Jerusalem Post, op cit. [11] Thomas Friedman, "What the United States Has Taken On In the=20 Gulf, Besides a War," New York Times, January 20, 1991. [12] Friedman, "Thinking About Iraq (II)," New York Times, January 26, = 2003. [13] Nicholas Lemann, "The Next World Order," The New Yorker, April 4, = 2001. [14] From "Towards Greater Democracy in the Muslim World," speech by=20 Richard Haass to the Council on Foreign Relations, December 4, 2002.=20 Available online at:=20 [15] Robert S. Greenberger, "Calls for Democracy in the Middle East=20 Are Creating a Dilemma for White House," Wall Street Journal, October=20 8, 1990. [16] Keith Watenpaugh, "The Guiding Principles and the US =D4Mandate'=20 for Iraq: Twentieth-Century Colonialism and America's New Empire,"=20 Logos 2/1 (Winter 2003). [17] Bernard Lewis, "The Roots of Muslim Rage," Atlantic Monthly,=20 September 1990. [18] Lewis, "Mideast States: Pawns No Longer in Imperial Games," Wall=20 Street Journal, April 11, 1991. [19] Lewis, "Rethinking the Middle East," Foreign Affairs 71/4 (Fall = 1992). [20] Lewis, What Went Wrong? Western Impact and Middle Eastern=20 Response (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2002), pp. 159-160. [21] Lewis, "Who Will Win, Who Will Lose in the Gulf," Wall Street=20 Journal (Europe), February 21, 1991. [22] Speech given by Bush to the American Enterprise Institute on=20 February 26, 2003, as reported by New York Times, February 27, 2003. [23] Lewis, "Islam and Liberal Democracy: A Historical Overview,"=20 Journal of Democracy 7/2 (1996). [24] Quoted in Lamis Andoni, "Bernard Lewis: In The Service of=20 Empire," Electronic Intifada, December 16, 2002. Accessed at=20 [25] Ibid. [26] Carla Anne Robbins and Jeanne Cummings, "How Bush Decided That=20 Hussein Must be Ousted from Atop Iraq," Wall Street Journal, June 14,=20 2002; Robert L. Bartley, "Thinking Things Over: Liberate Iraq,=20 Unleash Democracy," Wall Street Journal (Europe), December 18, 2001. [27] Anthony Lewis, "Bush and Iraq," New York Review of Books,=20 November 7, 2002. [28] Quoted at = [29] Paul Singer, "Domino Democracy," Jerusalem Post, April 7, 2002. [30] Lewis, "Islam and Liberal Democracy: A Historical Overview,"=20 Journal of Democracy 7/2 (1996). [31] Forward, October 11, 2002. [32] Los Angeles Times, March 14, 2003. [33] Haaretz, February 18, 2003. [34] Proceedings of the AEI conference of 10/14/98 quoted at:=20 [35] Meyrav Wurmser, "An Emerging Palestinian Alternative: Can Peace=20 Be Achieved Through Democracy?" Hudson Institute, June 6, 2002.=20 Accessed at:=20 [36] Martin Kramer, Ivory Towers on Sand: The Failure of Middle=20 Eastern Studies in America (Washington: The Washington Institute for=20 Near East Policy, 2001), p. 129. Copyright =A9 MERIP. All rights reserved. ____________________________________________________________________ Jewish Peace News (JPN) is an edited news-clipping and commentary = service provided by A Jewish Voice for Peace. JPN's editors are Adam = Gutride, Amichai Kronfeld, Rela Mazali, Sarah Anne Minkin, Judith = Norman, Mitchell Plitnick, Lincoln Shlensky, and Alistair Welchman. The = opinions expressed by the editors and presented in the articles sent to = this list are solely those of their authors, and do not necessarily = reflect the viewpoints of A Jewish Voice for Peace. A Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP) is a San Francisco Bay Area grassroots organization dedicated to the human, civil and economic rights of Jews, = Palestinians, and all peoples in the Middle East. Donating to A Jewish Voice for Peace is easy. Just go to our website at = www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org. There, you can either donate online using = your credit card or you can find our mailing address to send us a check. = All contributions are tax-deductible. Your support is greatly = appreciated.=20 For more information about JVP, please visit our web site at http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org To SUBSCRIBE to Jewish Peace News, our daily news and information = service, please send an email message to:=20 jewishpeacenews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com To JOIN the Jewish Voice for Peace community mailing list (no more than = one message per week), which features Middle East peace information and = local Jewish community activist updates, please send an email message = to:=20 JVPNewsletter-subscribe@yahoogroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: JewishPeaceNews-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service = .=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3258F.F01C75DB-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 23:12:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Lipman, Joel A." Subject: FW: Fw: Patriot Act 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C32590.2D88AB38" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C32590.2D88AB38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Postwar joke. JL Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------_=_NextPart_001_01C32590.2D88AB38 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_003_01C31FE5.807AA900" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Subject: Fw: Patriot Act 2 > > > > > > President Bush went to an elementary school to speak to a class = of=20 students. > > > > The President told them they could ask questions, but first had = to=20 raise their hands, stand and identify themselves with their first names. > > > > The first student raised his hand and the President recognized = him. > The boy said "My name is Michael and I have three questions. One, do = you think this war is a Just war? Two, don't you think the American attack = on > Hiroshima was a Terrorist Attack? and Three, How did you become=20 President when you clearly did not have the majority of the vote?" Just then, the recess bell rang and all the children went out to play. > > > > > > > > After fifteen minutes the children returned to the classroom and = resumed their time with the President. The next student raised his hand=20 and stood and identified himself. "My name is Walter and I have five questions. > > One, do you think this war is a Just War? Two, don't you think the=20 American > > attack on Hiroshima was a Terrorist Attack? Three, how did you = become President when you clearly did not have the majority of the vote? Four,=20 why did the Recess > > Bell ring twenty minutes early? and Five, where is Michael?" > > > --------------------------------- It's Samaritans' Week. Help Samaritans help others.=20 Call 08709 000032 to give or donate online now at=20 http://www.samaritans.org/support/donations.shtm ------_=_NextPart_001_01C32590.2D88AB38-- ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 18:27:56 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: Linh Dinh poetry book Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tinfish Press (with Subpress) announces the imminent publication of Linh Dinh's poetry book, _All Around What Empties Out_. Please see the following link for details. And by all means, please send this message and its link around! aloha, Susan http://maven.english.hawaii.edu/tinfish/hot_off_the_press.html ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:04:23 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: disturbing In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20030528182120.025b2328@mail.earthlink.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Talk about "vaporware" ,in today's London's Independent: Intelligence leaves no doubt that Iraq continues to possess and conceal lethal weapons George Bush, Us President 18 March, 2003 We are asked to accept Saddam decided to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd Tony Blair, Prime Minister 18 March, 2003 Saddam's removal is necessary to eradicate the threat from his weapons of mass destruction Jack Straw, Foreign Secretary 2 April, 2003 Before people crow about the absence of weapons of mass destruction, I suggest they wait a bit Tony Blair 28 April, 2003 It is possible Iraqi leaders decided they would destroy them prior to the conflict Donald Rumsfeld, US Defence Secretary 28 May, 2003 I guess what's most depressing - from the point of view of being a citizen - is that we in the hands of language manipulated and directed by what amounts to an evangelical coup in which some odd concept of the grail can only be achieved by enormous repressive power veiled in textual deception (i.e., blatant lies). I don't think it's worthwhile to beat each other up for being more politically impotent than the next person. Iraq seems clearly on the way to becoming a U.S led police state disaster. My suspicion is that the Peace Movement - national and international - is just beginning to move again (in horror at facts on both domestic and Iraqi ground) and things are going to inevitably crack open. A knee-jerk pacifism - that easily blinds itself and folds up shop - is the most immediate enemy to this process. The making of poems -moving forward - may be entirely an after thought. Or what springs up as a consequence taking stands. Though - here on the West Coast - many poets and artists were conscientious objectors during world war II (and wrote and published in the US detention camps) their work did not really flourish until after the war, as the work of many others in the late forties. Old enough to be a little patient - tho frustrated - here! Stephen V on 5/28/03 6:26 PM, Mark Weiss at junction@EARTHLINK.NET wrote: > I suspect that the reason we're not talking about the war on the list is > not very mysterious--there's almost total agreement in this crowd, and > saying amen gets very boring. It also doesn't serve much purpose. > > Is it in our minds every waking moment? Is it a constant source of > depression and consternation? I can't speak for others except those I in > fact speak with, but it is for me and those around me, and I assume it is > for most of those I can't speak for. > > In the various ways one votes the votes of me and mine have been counted > and discounted. One goes on casting the vote in all those ways. meanwhile I > talk about other things except when there's a reason to talk about the war. > > Shared anger I guess is like an open fire--comforting on a cold night. But > when the discussion is among ourselves it doesn't accomplishg much else. > > Mark > > > At 04:19 PM 5/28/2003 -0700, you wrote: >> Joel, >> >> Do you posit any connections between your question below and the long thread >> about the nature of reality to which we've been treated these last weeks? >> >> That is, if external reality is totally a phenomenon of language, wouldn't >> that, to some degree, deflect concern about it? After all, "countless >> buildings, infrastructure, and cultural assets" . . . those are all just >> words. "Eight to ten thousand Iraqi civilians . . ." but what is a civilian, >> really? Perhaps they don't even really exist. Or the variant, we can never >> *know* that they do . . . so let's just leave things to the professionals, >> the warrior caste, the people in the know . . . >> >> I don't want to seem like a complete philistine here, even though I probably >> am. I think any thoughtful person realizes there's an issue here. It was >> good to see those Spicer poems in Patrick's recent post, for example. But >> what that work has always meant for me is that poets negotiate the >> ever-shifting space between subject and object, word and reality -- that >> that's our province, our fate, the waterfront we cover. It's not something >> to argue about, particularly, it's something to explore. Words hold on to >> the real, he said; they're no more useful in themselves than rope. That's >> one way to put it. >> >> But philosophical parlor games don't mirror the world I know. They have no >> relevance to it. And Oppen quotes, Steve, are very much to the point. (So is >> Eliot Weinberger's preface to the recent *Collected Poems* edited by Michael >> Davidson.) >> >> Charles Bernstein told me last month that recent conversations about the >> relationship between poetry and politics reminded him of those in the 1930s. >> That got me thinking about the famous dispute between Benjamin and Adorno, >> which I'll summarize in another post. But for now, there might be any number >> of reasons why the public at large aren't talking about the middle east any >> more; the war, after all, is off their TV screens, not worthy of the May >> sweeps (American Idol is more edifying than American Idolater). But for >> poets not to be speaking about it . . . well, I couldn't say. Other than to >> repeat what I said about ten days ago: that flood of poems against the war >> had a short shelf life, partly because they weren't political. We don't even >> know what a political poem is. >> >> Joe Safdie >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joel Weishaus [mailto:weishaus@PDX.EDU] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 1:49 PM >> To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU >> Subject: disturbing >> >> I find it disturbing that what the US government is doing in the Middle >> East, where its military "heroes," as the local news calls them, just >> murdered between eight- and ten-thousand Iraqi civilians (the figure is >> still being tallied), destroyed countless buildings, infrastructure, and >> cultural assets, and is now occupying two countries in the region, and >> threatening a third, is not being discussed by poets on an ongoing thread. >> Before the war, everyone was talking about peace marches. Now, while the >> morals, economy, environment, and a democratic decentralized media are being >> trashed, hardly anyone is talking at all! A few links to stories are given. >> But where is the discussion? Where is the insight? Ah, the book's been >> published, so we move on to the next topic. >> >> -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:03:10 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tlrelf Subject: Re: Linh Dinh poetry book MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey--is this the same Susan AKA Marnie Webster that I lost track of at SDSU? If so, drop me a line through writersmonthly.us, and tell me what you're writing these days. Terrie Relf > Tinfish Press (with Subpress) announces the imminent publication of > Linh Dinh's poetry book, _All Around What Empties Out_. Please see the > following link for details. And by all means, please send this message > and its link around! > > aloha, Susan > > http://maven.english.hawaii.edu/tinfish/hot_off_the_press.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 00:38:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: course MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Seminar starting on June 1 "Write for the Health of It. Write for the Heath of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar tom bell not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the a ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 00:44:55 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: August Highland Subject: NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0036 - #0041 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0036 - #0041 with her hand, "to with her hand, "to wants me to open my wants me to open my wants me to open my breaking off, my breaking off, my with her hand, "to be that everyone be that everyone rank? rank? rank? The moment we The moment we be that everyone ain't for him!' It ain't for him!' It although thou mayest although thou mayest although thou mayest ain't for him!' It consciousness, in consciousness, in is coming AND going is coming AND going is coming AND going Willie's dream -objectives for this Willie's dream -objectives for this consciousness, in it, only the upper it, only the upper and me a better man and me a better man and me a better man until he had reached until he had reached it, only the upper few days ago from few days ago from few days ago from edge axe, axe to cut edge axe, axe to cut dark corner, wedged dark corner, wedged Creation is Creation is Creation is She wasn't as She wasn't as dark corner, wedged be pursued with be pursued with to take a woman with to take a woman with to take a woman with "No, thank you, Mrs "No, thank you, Mrs be pursued with to my lips. "You to my lips. "You the well's side as the well's side as the well's side as the object has the the object has the to my lips. "You NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0037 "I thought I ought "I thought I ought with which I was with which I was with which I was clarity and clarity and "I thought I ought scientific approach, scientific approach, replied, and she led replied, and she led replied, and she led on yesterday, but it on yesterday, but it scientific approach, and she dawned out and she dawned out stranger in a quite stranger in a quite stranger in a quite When we came near When we came near and she dawned out sort of bright and sort of bright and due course of time due course of time due course of time on men, and that she on men, and that she sort of bright and is going to take is going to take be a businessman. be a businessman. be a businessman. rotting them in many rotting them in many is going to take and down on me fast. and down on me fast. intelligence, intelligence, intelligence, reserved for me. I reserved for me. I and down on me fast. do." do." that he had taken a that he had taken a that he had taken a Company A, 3rd Company A, 3rd do." shall have some shall have some and women make -expressly for the and women make -expressly for the and women make -expressly for the Raeford Drop Zone, Raeford Drop Zone, shall have some series of years. I series of years. I again, and yet again, and yet again, and yet transmitted it to me transmitted it to me series of years. I NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0038 are never asked in -"That I can't tell, are never asked in -"That I can't tell, vocation? vocation? vocation? had told me why, her had told me why, her are never asked in -"That I can't tell, soot and hot dust; soot and hot dust; and beyond One of and beyond One of and beyond One of soot and hot dust; consulting company, consulting company, persons, and learned persons, and learned persons, and learned shouted and sang his -have to meet some shouted and sang his -have to meet some consulting company, world. But on a world. But on a there must really be there must really be there must really be saw in this, the saw in this, the world. But on a a certain quite a certain quite your faith, which your faith, which your faith, which wondering what had wondering what had a certain quite realization that realization that her with you, I her with you, I her with you, I was. It was like a was. It was like a realization that wargame was that wargame was that "Thanks. Enjoyed the "Thanks. Enjoyed the "Thanks. Enjoyed the hope I am a little hope I am a little wargame was that NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0039 may call it the may call it the wooden house wooden house wooden house tightens and tightens and may call it the when the handle when the handle over and turns on a over and turns on a over and turns on a Pratyahara, Dharana, Pratyahara, Dharana, when the handle it in my head, but it in my head, but had confronted one had confronted one had confronted one ghost with its head ghost with its head it in my head, but there. We see a there. We see a and then when I and then when I and then when I the table next to the table next to there. We see a NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0040 asleep. All was asleep. All was hasten their step as hasten their step as asleep. All was hoped he had made hoped he had made you got?" asked my you got?" asked my you got?" asked my beside me and we beside me and we hoped he had made in the way in which in the way in which business, who wanted business, who wanted business, who wanted "Can't say," "Can't say," in the way in which finish with. We finish with. We "And two?" "And "And two?" "And "And two?" "And jeer jeer finish with. We This led me to This led me to as "Clara." She as "Clara." She as "Clara." She communing so much communing so much This led me to Nobody was hurt. Nobody was hurt. accused are presumed accused are presumed Nobody was hurt. NOMINAL QUIESCENT CURRENT #0041 as I came. She as I came. She course." course." course." night; and it is not -me that he is night; and it is not -me that he is as I came. She and how exposed to and how exposed to use me." They looked use me." They looked use me." They looked consisted of nothing consisted of nothing and how exposed to found herself found herself popular system, and popular system, and popular system, and Mademoiselle hadn't Mademoiselle hadn't found herself "She's locking us "She's locking us "She's locking us inexperienced like inexperienced like phenomena we call phenomena we call ensuring continued ensuring continued ensuring continued gains of the first gains of the first phenomena we call goes that philosophy goes that philosophy looking tearfully looking tearfully looking tearfully year!" says the year!" says the goes that philosophy She smiled gaily and She smiled gaily and She smiled gaily and the whale came and the whale came and me," retorted Miss me," retorted Miss From the moment he From the moment he From the moment he your body by looking your body by looking me," retorted Miss troubled dream came troubled dream came thinking which is a thinking which is a thinking which is a think we did faint, think we did faint, troubled dream came AUGUST HIGHLAND HYPER-LITERARY FICTION METAPOETICS THEATRE WORLDWIDE LITERATI MOBILIZATION NETWORK INTERNATIONAL BELLES LETTRES FEDERATION SUPERHEROES OF HUMANITIES CULTURE ANIMAL --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.483 / Virus Database: 279 - Release Date: 5/20/2003 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:36:46 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Poems by others: George Hitchcock, "Consider the Poet" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Consider the Poet who walks in a stony field behind his plow turning up old flints adze-heads and the bones of ptarmigan, who lives in terror of tea-leaves ink-blots and mendicant feathers, who spends his tears on jujubes, and on feast-days pulls coins from dirty ears to the applause of grass-blades; whose overcoat is specked with the dandruff of alphabets; a salamander born in the hospitable lava, he traffics in scoriac mysteries and scalds the hands of those who put trust in him: Arbiter of waters, Nuncio of the wild iris, Ishmaelite among the tenements of eyes, you salute each morning the flags which flutter in the cottonwoods and bear in your lung the deadly flower of recollection. --George Hitchcock in *Monks Pond* No. 2, Summer, 1968 in *Monks Pond: Thomas Merton's Little Magazine* [Lexington, Kentucky: Univ. Press of Kentucky, 1989] Hal Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 08:49:41 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Anastasios Kozaitis Subject: [gulfwar-2] US Plans Death Camp Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed >http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/052703B.shtml > >http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6494000%255E4 >01,00.html > >US Plans Death Camp > The Courier-Mail > > Monday 26 May 2003 > > The US has floated plans to turn Guantanamo Bay into a death camp, with >its own death row and execution chamber. > > Prisoners would be tried, convicted and executed without leaving its >boundaries, without a jury and without right of appeal, The Mail on Sunday >newspaper reported yesterday. >The plans were revealed by Major-General Geoffrey Miller, who is in charge >of 680 suspects from 43 countries, including two Australians. > > The suspects have been held at Camp Delta on Cuba without charge for 18 >months. >General Miller said building a death row was one plan. Another was to have a >permanent jail, with possibly an execution chamber > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. >http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/CNxFAA/3hSolB/TM >---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > >For more information, please visit: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gulfwar-2/files/GULWAR-2%20FAQ > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >gulfwar-2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 06:12:34 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: Gay marriage ban reintroduced in House In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit though I am not proponent of queer marriage (the terms does not seem to coincide) nonetheless, to restrict ones right to practice what ever simplistic and silly ritual one chooses is like restricting one from "walking in the park," entering certain shops, or having to go the the back of the bus speak. this all has an air of apartheid, and in this country there is this constant push wether through legesative means, the military or overt hatered a constant battle line. in San Francisco alone last year there was 270 hate crimes. I do not know what the rest of the country is like, but I do know this is suppose to be a city of tolerance. and this is not just a national practice there is still the round ups and imprisonment of gay men in egypt, a Hijra was refused the right to hold office in India because the counts decide what gender the individual was, and the office was for a woman... its time to face up to the fact that what is going on with the bush's international policy is being reflected onto queers and little or nothing is said about it... which all seems a little to easy and privileged.... kari edwards Gay marriage ban reintroduced in HouseAnn Rostow, Gay.com / PlanetOut.com Network Wednesday, May 28, 2003 / 04:45 PM The Human Rights Campaign lashed out at the authors of an anti-gay constitutional amendment Wednesday, calling the Federal Marriage Amendment a "divisive and discriminatory" attempt to "treat one group of citizens differently than everybody else." Introduced May 21 in the U.S. House of Representatives for the second year in a row, the amendment seeks to embed a ban on same-sex marriage into the text of the U.S. Constitution. If passed, it would signal the end of all efforts to legalize same-sex relationships, as well as a permanent prohibition on granting gay couples "the legal incidents" of marriage. The Federal Marriage Amendment is arguably a last gasp of conservative Christians, who are fighting a losing battle against the rise of gay and lesbian families and their increasing status in society. A recent Gallup poll suggested 6 in 10 Americans support giving legal rights to same-sex couples. In June or July, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court will rule on the legalization of same-sex marriage, or perhaps civil unions, in the Bay State. Gay activists have their fingers crossed that the justices will issue a favorable opinion. In New Jersey, a similar right-to-marry case will be argued in a lower court next month. Legal marriages for same-sex couples in Belgium will begin June 16 of this year. And the leaders of four out of five of Canada's main political parties issued statements Tuesday, urging the federal government to legalize same-sex marriage in view of three recent provincial court decisions. Although 37 states have passed "Defense of Marriage Acts," designed to protect states from having to recognize a legal gay marriage from outside state borders, most legal analysts from the right and the left believe that these laws will one day be deemed unconstitutional. Without a new amendment to the U.S. Constitution, it seems clear that states must respect the "public acts, records and judicial proceedings," of every other state, a mandate that would apply to the recognition of a Boston marriage, or a Newark, N.J., one. On Tuesday, Texas Gov. Rick Perry signed a Defense of Marriage Act into law, adding the Lone Star State to the list of those with anti-marriage statutes. Passage of a new constitutional amendment is a nearly impossible feat. An amendment must first pass a joint session of Congress by a supermajority of two-thirds. Then, the amendment must be ratified by the legislatures of 38 states within 10 years. Since the repeal of prohibition, the Constitution has been amended just six times, while hundreds of proposals have died along the long road to passage. This year's amendment does not have a Senate companion and is unlikely to make progress. However, once a state like Massachusetts or New Jersey makes gay rights history by legalizing same-sex marriage, a federal amendment could get wider support. ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 06:44:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: disturbing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > We don't even know what a political poem is. > Joe Safdie Now here's an interesting statement. It's been discussed, of course; and written about, of course. And after all the rhetoric, this comes out! Ground Zero. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:09:42 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "David A. Kirschenbaum" Subject: NYC Beat/Maureen Owen at the PoProj MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was a lovefest last night at the Poetry Project at St. Mark's Church, and= =20 deservedly so. Maureen Owen is moving to Denver. Miles Champion introduced Maureen, for what he told us was her 57th=20 appearance as a reader at the Church, and it wasn=E2=80=99t your typical PoP= roj introduction.=20 Miles didn=E2=80=99t dissect the work himself, choosing to defer to the late= Fielding=20 Dawson--=E2=80=9CThe new book by Maureen Owen is the best book since the las= t book by=20 Maureen Owen=E2=80=9D--and the great Alice Notley.=20 Instead, Miles talked of what Maureen means to this poetic community, the=20 example she sets forth through her own work and her late magazine Telephone=20= and=20 still extant press, Telephone Books, and how she demonstrates how one can li= ve=20 the life of a poet. It was the first introduction I ever heard that had me=20 near tears, and, afterwards, as we all told Miles how wonderful his words we= re, I=20 discovered I wasn=E2=80=99t alone. Parish Hall was packed, with a decent mix of generations and genders, but=20 what disappointed me was the dearth of women poets of my generation in the c= rowd.=20 (Though rocking ladies were in the crowd, including Kimberly Lyons, Martha=20 King, Marcella Durand, Corina Copp, Joanna Fuhrman, Brenda Iijima, Alison=20 Dorfman, Betsy Andrews, Africa Wayne, Patricia Spears Jones, and Erica Kaufm= an.)=20 I had one women poet call me that afternoon, and I said I=E2=80=99ll see you= tonight,=20 and she said what do u mean, and I said Maureen=E2=80=99s reading tonight, a= nd she=20 said I don=E2=80=99t think I=E2=80=99m gonna make it. Now, normally, I go ok= ay, and move on to=20 goodbyes, but this time I was like, no, you must go and pay homage to Mauree= n=20 tonight, she=E2=80=99s moving to Denver, you have to honor her. And the poet= said=20 maybe I=E2=80=99ll see you later to shut me up and then didn=E2=80=99t show.= =20 One thing I=E2=80=99ve learned in this thing Bob Holman endearingly calls po= biz is=20 you are nowhere without those who came before you, plain and simple Santayan= a.=20 As a poet-publisher I honor those who paved the way for me, Lawrence=20 Ferlinghetti, Hettie Jones, d.a. levy, Ed Sanders, Maureen Owen, Lewis Warsh= , and too=20 many others to name, from this and previous generations. These people who de= vote=20 their lives to their community and their art. These people who may not be so= =20 flashy but who simply get it done. It was nice to see one of those people, Maureen, open to a standing ovation=20 following Miles=E2=80=99 words. And what was even better was to watch her de= liver.=20 She talked of her problems with titles, and then read titles that were=20 amazing, almost poems themselves: Natasha Drives to the Grand Canyon The Chinese Family=E2=80=99s Parrot Speaks Chinese, I Do Not Not Every Restaurant that Attracts Celebrities Has an Attitude I Don=E2=80=99t Suppose the Nieces Could be More Serious Than They Were Toni= ght She reads a series of eight poems based on postcards she has, and, after=20 three poems, goes, =E2=80=9CI probably shouldn=E2=80=99t say this, ah, why n= ot,=E2=80=9D and tells us=20 that the poems she just read are based on postcards and she shows them to us= ,=20 saying that she knows they=E2=80=99re too small for everyone to see. And the= n she=20 continues to read the remainder of the series, showing us the postcards with= a little=20 flip of her hand. And she delivered solid lines throughout the night: the soaked arm of her silk underwear for instance, Key West is tired of chickens in the road The word kangaroo in the aboriginal language simply means I don=E2=80=99t un= derstand Proving once again that Madonna doesn=E2=80=99t care what we wear Haircuts in London are very pretty backward There=E2=80=99s one last chance to see Maureen in action before she heads to= the=20 Rockies. This coming Wed., June 4, at 7:00 p.m., at the Poetry Project at St= .=20 Mark=E2=80=99s Church, it=E2=80=99s a free book party for Maureen=E2=80=99s=20= new Telephone Books edition,=20 Drenched: The Selected Poems of Susan Cataldo, 1979-1999. Tentative list of=20 poets reading includes Anselm Berrigan, Edmund Berrigan, Charlotte Carter, E= d=20 Friedman, Rochelle Kraut, Bill Kushner, Alice Notley, Maureen, Bob Rosenthal= ,=20 Tom Savage, and Don Yorty. as ever, David ___________ David A. Kirschenbaum, editor and publisher Boog City 330 W.28th St., Suite 6H NY, NY 10001-4754 T: (212) 842-BOOG (2664) F: (212) 842-2429 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 07:31:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: US finds evidence of WMD at last -- buried in a field near D.C. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit When I see an American Flag, I see a bandage staunching the country's self-inflicted wounds. It happens when a country's leadership, its privileged, its elite, works to keep power at all costs, in treasure and in blood. Not telling his people the truth, Saddam was no different than what George Bush and his team, which includes a growing segment of the media, tells their country. Misinformation is not misreading, but a trickle of blood from the collective mouth, a zip of red. Is the artist alive, or speaking to the dead? -Joel > >------ Forwarded Message > >From: Sandy Mitchell > >Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 11:03:32 -0700 > >To: Bartholomew and Associates > > > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,965319,00.html > > > >US finds evidence of WMD at last -- buried in a field near [sic] Maryland > > > >Julian Borger in Washington > >Wednesday May 28, 2003 > >The Guardian > > > >The good news for the Pentagon yesterday was that its investigators had > >finally unearthed evidence of weapons of mass destruction, including 100 > >vials of anthrax and other dangerous bacteria. > > > >The bad news was that the stash was found, not in Iraq, but fewer than 50 > >miles from Washington, near Fort Detrick in the Maryland countryside. > > > >The anthrax was a non-virulent strain, and the discoveries are apparently > >remnants of an abandoned germ warfare programme. They merited only a local > >news item in the Washington Post. > > > >But suspicious finds in Iraq have made front-page news (before later being > >cleared), given the failure of US military inspection teams to find evidence > >of the weapons that were the justification for the March invasion. > > > >For complete article: > >http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,965319,00.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:09:45 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) & Cremaster too! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 5/28/03 1:06:52 AM, pimetrum@ZAD.ATT.NE.JP writes: << As usual, I have very little time to contribute to this rather fascinating discussion. But I couldn't resist! What is compelling about this thread? First, no, we couldn't think "these things" without language, but the question, I thought was could we think without language. Following the arguments of Maturana & Varela, everything thinks - is cognizant - not only without language, but without a brain! This relatively new "discovery" has led to those in AI to dramatically rethink the possibilities of AI.. thus we now have ALife, etc. No doubt language is important, but we have to consider it along with everything else we organisms are doing. So much for language being in brain matter. Following on from that, Bill's post presupposes a 'knowable' external reality, as though there is this absolute in the first place. >> Ben, I admit I'm no expert on M and V, but what reading I've done does not suggest that they locate cognition in rocks, which is what your post suggests. The focus, as far as I can tell, is on living systems and interactions within nervous systems (brain required) which produce derivative, not literal, versions of experience. Nothing here thus far to suggest there is no external reality. Quite the opposite, in fact. Biology is a necessary component. They seem to privilege its structural "verities." There is no conflict between what I've said re: language and what Maturana and Varela say about interactive systems, interdependent systems. Clearly these guys have been influenced big time by Structuralism. In addition, their concept of "languaging" involves two or more people occupying each other, "orienting" themselves in each other. An interesting analog to what I've been saying about language, that it functions as an interactive system, that meaning occurs within and not merely without or between the elements of that system since each element is a crucial internal component of the others. Signification depends on this interaction. I see nothing in M and V, thus far, that does injury to what I've been saying. Their "redefinition" of cognition seems quite in line with contemporary language theory. And so far I see nothing to suggest that meaning occurs beyond semiotics. These guys do seem to have appropriated the determinism that always lurked in Structuralism, whereas the poststructuralist view emphasizes indeterminacy. Even Barthes came over to Derrida's side. As I said, I'm not fluent enough in autopoiesis to know what changes these guys made to their theory down the line, since the early 1980s, if any. More recently, Chaos Theory is one good example of how any claim for determinism can go awry. Actually, I never insisted on an external reality (in fact, I insisted from my earliest posts on the subject that what, if anything, lies beyond language is unknowable), but I see no reason to deny one. If M &V deny one, I haven't come across that aspect of their theory yet. However, Maturana and Varela do seem to offer a fixed structure (a la that old horse, Structuralism) which controls activity. I can't say at this point if they consider the fixity of such structures absolute or provisional. If the former, then I can't agree. Structures evolve, and there is always something lurking in the structure that cannot be accounted for, some resistance to the structure's operation which both permits that operation and undermines it. But M's and V's position is no doubt useful, especially for the social sciences. Of course I may be mistaken, not knowing as much about autopoiesis as I should. Perhaps this interactive model has been transfigured into a claim that computers "think." Come to "think" of it, rocks also have interactive systems that both synchronically and diachronically exchange information, so to speak. They're called electrons. But are they cognizant, i.e., aware, as your post suggests? Don't they put people far far away for such ideas? Just kidding. I'd of course appreciate your pointing me toward what in M's and V's discourse rejects an external reality. Nothing I've read thus far does. A claim for knowledge as mediation (not literal) is not a dismissal of externality. Still, M and V seem to play in the same general ballpark as the structuralists/poststructuralists, so I feel fairly comfortable with what I've read thus far. I've no argument with their ideas re: contextualization, for example. Far from it. But consider that whatever anyone says about anything can only be said within language's landscape of indeterminacy. M's and V's ideas are only possible as inscriptions. It seems language always has the last word. Does this "seeming" Q.E.D. linguacentricity? I would argue that language itself resists that position. After all, everything anyone says suggesting the hegemony of language is meaningful only within language which also produces the contraries to what is said. What is said--its meaningfulness--depends on those contraries, carries those contraries within it. Identity dissolves in di fference. Difference dissolves in identity. Thanks for your very interesting post. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:42:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Fwd: cork festival Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 20:36:13 +0100 >From: Matthew Geden >Organization: Eircom Net (http://www.eircom.net/) >Subject: cork festival > > >The 7th Cork International Poetry Festival will take place at the >Triskel Arts Centre, Tobin Street, Cork from Friday 20th - Sunday >22nd June. >Confirmed participants include Susan Schultz, Tom Raworth, Maggie >O'Sullivan, Trevor Joyce, Maurice Scully, Catherine Walsh, Billy >Mills, Mairead Byrne, Keith Tuma, Things Not Worth Keeping, Michael >Smith, Geoffrey Squires and Fergal Gaynor. >There will be a book stall run by Nate Dorward, those wishing to >sell books should contact him. >There will be readings, performance, book launches and discussion. >Full programme to be posted shortly. >Those seeking accomodation can contact Kinlay House in Cork, their >website is www.kinlayhouse.ie * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:50:31 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Chicago Review Subject: Fwd: [EFC] Cremaster Review Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" I'm curious, but haven't yet seen anything more than a few clips of Barney's pageant. A cautious review that appeared in one of our local rags over the weekend is linked below. / Eirik Steinhoff. > > > > > > > >Spectacle, not plot, defines 'Cremaster Cycle' > > >May 23, 2003 > > >BY BILL STAMETS * * * * * * * * * CHICAGO REVIEW 5801 South Kenwood Avenue Chicago IL 60637 http://humanities.uchicago.edu/review/ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:06:27 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Peter Quartermain Subject: Lies, lies, lies, and lies MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Maybe it should be called THE BIG DUNCE? (see story below) The (Toronto) Globe and Mail 28 May 2003 Front Page 9/11 film makes hero of Bush TV movie, made with White House help, gives revised account of President's day By DOUG SAUNDERS Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - Page A1 Trapped on the other side of the country aboard Air Force One, the President has lost his cool: "If some tinhorn terrorist wants me, tell him to come and get me! I'll be at home! Waiting for the bastard!" His Secret Service chief seems taken aback. "But Mr. President . . ." The President brusquely interrupts him. "Try Commander-in-Chief. Whose present command is: Take the President home!" Was this George W. Bush's moment of resolve on Sept. 11, 2001? Well, not exactly. Actually, the scene took place this month, on a Toronto sound stage.The histrionics, filmed for a two-hour TV movie to be broadcast this September, are as close as you can get to an official White House account of its activities at the outset of the war on terrorism. Written and produced by a White House insider with the close co-operation of Mr. Bush and his top officials, The Big Dance represents an unusually close merger of Washington's ambitions and Hollywood's movie machinery. A copy of the script obtained by The Globe and Mail reveals a prime-time drama starring a nearly infallible, heroic president with little or no dissension in his ranks and a penchant for delivering articulate, stirring, off-the-cuff addresses to colleagues. That the whole thing was filmed in Canada and is eligible for financial aid from Canadian taxpayers, and that its loyal Republican writer-producer is a Canadian citizen best known for his adaptation of The Apprenticeship of Duddy Kravitz, are ironies that will be lost on most of its American viewers when it airs on the Showtime network this fall. While the film is intended for U.S. viewers, it is produced in collaboration with Toronto-based Dufferin Gate Productions in order to take advantage of Canadian government incentives. It is eligible for the federal Film or Video Production Services Tax Credit, the Ontario Film and Television Production Services Tax Credit and a federal tax-shelter program, which together could result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in Canadian government cheques being sent to the producers. Lionel Chetwynd, the film's creator, sees nothing untoward about his role as the semi-official White House apologist in Hollywood. For him, having a well-connected Republican create the movie was a way to get the official message around what he sees as an entertainment industry packed with liberals and Democrats. "A feeding frenzy had started to develop around this story, and a lot of people who wanted to do this story had a very clear political agenda, very clear," Mr. Chetwynd said in an interview from his Los Angeles home yesterday. "My own view of the administration is somewhat more sympathetic than, say, Alec Baldwin's. . . . In fact, I'm technically a member of the administration [Mr. Chetwynd sits on the President's Committee on the Arts and Humanities], so I let it be known that I was also interested in doing it. I threw myself on the mercies of my friend Karl Rove." Mr. Rove is the President's chief political adviser, so this was not a typical Hollywood pitch. But then, Mr. Chetwynd is not a typical Hollywood writer-producer: He is founder of the Wednesday Morning Club, an organization for the movie colony's relatively small band of Republicans, and he led the White House's efforts to enlist Hollywood's support after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Mr. Chetwynd's script is based on lengthy interviews with Mr. Bush, Mr. Rove, top aide Andy Card, retiring White House press aide Ari Fleischer, Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and other Republican officials in the White House and the Pentagon. He says every scene and line of dialogue was described to him by an insider or taken from credible reports. Yet compared with other journalistic accounts of the period, the movie is clearly an effort to reconstruct Mr. Bush as a determined and principled military leader. The public image of Mr. Bush -- who avoided military service in Vietnam and who has often been derided as a doe-eyed naif on satirical TV shows -- is a key concern to White House communications officials, many of them friends of Mr. Chetwynd. While Mr. Chetwynd says he principally wanted to tell a good story, the movie's mission gives it a distinctly different tint from other such accounts. The scene aboard Air Force One is offered in several other accounts -- but most of them present Mr. Bush as worried as he asks to go home. An account published by the British Daily Telegraph has him saying: "I'm not going to do it [appear on TV] from an Air Force base. Not while folks are under the rubble. I'm coming home." Bob Woodward, the Washington Post reporter, recounts a line similar to Mr. Chetwynd's in his book Bush At War: "We need to get back to Washington. We don't need some tinhorn terrorist to scare us off. The American people want to know where their President is." But it is a complaint, not an order. In accounts such as Mr. Woodward's, Mr. Bush seems uncertain, and spends a lot of time approving proposals from his aides. In this movie, Mr. Bush delivers long, stirring speeches that immediately become policy. Mr. Chetwynd said that he did not write such scenes principally to bolster the image of Mr. Bush, but that the image was a concern."The belittling of the President really irritated me, but I didn't start out on a crusade," he said. "I wanted to show . . . how he was able in that moment to grab hold of things as a leader in those critical days." ======================== He that oppresseth the Poor to increase his Riches, and he that giveth to the Rich, shall surely come to Want. Thomas Dilworth. A New Guide to the English Tongue. In Five Parts. Designed for the Use of the SCHOOLS in Great Britain, Ireland, and in the several English Colonies and Plantations abroad. 1740. ======================== Peter Quartermain 846 Keefer Street Vancouver BC V6A 1Y7 phone 604 255 8274 fax 604 255 8204 quarterm@interchange.ubc.ca ================== ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:12:49 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) & Cremaster too! In-Reply-To: <15e.20880523.2c077cb9@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { << As usual, I have very little time to contribute to this rather fascinating { discussion. But I couldn't resist! What is compelling about this thread? { { First, no, we couldn't think "these things" without language, but the { question, I thought was could we think without language. My question is whether we could we type all these things with our arms tied behind us and no voice-recog software. Hal No pets or dogs. --sign at the entrance to the gardens of St. Luke in the Fields, NYC Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:14:35 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: dispersion In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi Jim - This is really of great interest to me. There have been, in print of course, highly edited list readers - for example the ReadMe that came out of Nettime. But it would be fantastic to have material available and searchable on a cdrom. I know from Google Hacks that Google is highly configurable; another possibility would be using a form of grep to search across files and indexes. I tend to go for magazine cdroms - the Linux Journal has an excellent one. As far as peripherality is concerned, I think at least for myself, my work is central; I wouldn't be able to proceed without believing that. I think that is also true for a lot of writers. But I do feel as if technology and technological dispersion is going to swamp what passes for 'art' and for 'artworks,' no matter how advanced; I keep thinking of the 30 million in Japan doing SMS for example, the material in Rheingold's Smart Mobs, and the fact that wireless is, I believe, exponentially outpacing the growth of the Net itself. And standard email is beginning swamped as well, by spam - just as Usenet was/is - I was off for a day, and had 666 messages when I returned. Without constant culling, or changing my address, my account will crash at this point. People see this list primarily, I believe, as a critical exchange-about - the emphasis being on the 'about' that points elsewhere, vectors out of the region, even the ontology of being online. For some of us, and I think you might feel this way to some extent, the list, and all lists, are ongoing works/productions in themselves - certainly Wryting and Nettime come across that way - as do Empyre (where I follow your critical writing of course), Syndicate, etc. Poetics seems almost bipolar in content - in the sense that some people see it as a distributive electronic mode, and others as referent ultimately to talk/seminar/print... Sorry for the meandering. I do think that in the long run, distribution and dispersion will becoming increasingly of import - and in a very un-McLuhanesque way. For myself, I've been thinking of the universe itself less in terms of state/process, and more as dispersion/filtering, and am trying to write to that effect. Alan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:24:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Search-Engine Phenomenology and Philosophical Construct MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Search-Engine Phenomenology and Philosophical Construct Dispersions and Distributions: The Lessons of Search-Engines Search-Engines in their Applications to Issues of Philosophy Search-Engines and Theological, Sociological, Cultural Issues Symbolic Emissions and Encapsulations of Philosophical Aporia The Deconstruction of the Search for Truth Epistemology-Based Foundations of Philosophical Systems Collocation of Search Results in a Fractally-Based Domain Truths and Falsehoods Problematized in Symbolic Emissions Problematic of Agency and Culling in Search-Engine Results Resolution of Results: The World as Filter and Dispersion >From Wittgenstein's TLP Enumeration to the Phenomenology of Bits Information-Structure of Worlds and World-Creation Non-Linearity of Re-Ordered Ranking of Search-Engine Results Phenomenology of the Problematic of Foundations in Conventionalism Conventionalism and Intuitionism in Relation to List and Hash Structure Conventionalism and (Neo)Platonism: The Search-Engine and the Results Phenomenological Structures of Search-Engines and Results Do Meta-Searches Make a Differance? Surplus Economics of Search-Engine Foundation Phenomenology Dark Matter and Search-Engine Philosophy Search-Engine and Speech-Act Theory as Performative Philosophy The Problematic of Online Rigid Designators Every World a Possible World Online Theoretical Foundations of Naming, Tracing, Structuration The Search-Engine as Philosophical Paradigm Fundamental Ontology as Filter and Dispersion The Merging of Epistemology and Ontology in Filter and Dispersion The 'Difiltering' Neologism and its Philosophical Construct The Filtering and Dispersion of Nothing The Filtering and Dispersion of Anything and All Theory and World: The Destruction of Theory Wittgenstein's Escapement 'Burn this Post After You have Read it' Search-Engine Phenomenology and Philosophical Construct ___ ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 10:17:45 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: charles alexander Subject: Bernstein, Lazer, Creeley, Mackey, Weiss chapbooks Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed CHARLES BERNSTEIN, HANK LAZER, NATHANIEL MACKEY, ROBERT CREELEY, and MARK WEISS CHAPBOOKS Announcing: Five Chapbooks and Special Offers from Chax Press Please respond to special offers by email directly to Chax Press chax@theriver.com. In all chapbooks the text pages are offset-printed. Covers are printed letterpress, in one or two colors, and in one case (Bernstein's LET'S JUST SAY) illustrated with two-color rubber stamping on the cover. All books are hand sewn. Special Offers: Buy two of these books and receive free shipping (domestic USA). Buy three of these books and receive a fourth free of charge. Buy four of these books, receive a 10% discount, receive the fifth free of charge, and receive free shipping (domestic USA). Please take advantage of these offers by taking the following steps: 1: Email your order to so that we can reserve your copies. 2: When you receive confirmation from us, send your payment (check or cash) to Chax Press 101 W. Sixth St., no. 6 Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 USA 3: We will send your order within three working days of our receipt of your payment. This is a limited time offer. Please send your email order by June 15, and send payment within one week of our confirmation of your order (telling you we have reserved the books to fill your order, and confirming the amount of the payment required). 1. Charles Bernstein, LET'S JUST SAY (just published) 5.5 x 7 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn with special red binding thread Four poems $15 About this chapbook, Peter Middleton writes: This is just to say I have read the poems that were in the nice Chax book which you are probably saving for break fast danced live speech they were delirious so skeet and so cool In a discussion of Bernstein's humor, Ron Silliman calls this "an intensely beautiful chapbook." (see Ron Silliman's Blog at http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#94322114. (excerpt from Let's Just Say) every lake has a house & every house has a stove & every stove has a pot & every pot has a lid & every lid has a handle & every handle has a stem & every stem has an edge & every edge has a lining & every lining has a margin & every margin has a slit & every slit has a slope & every slope has a sum & every sum has a factor & every factor has a face & every face has a thought & every thought has a trap & every trap has a door & every door has a frame & every frame has a roof & every roof has a house & every house has a lake 2. Hank Lazer, DEATHWATCH FOR MY FATHER (just published) 5.5 x 10 inches, 36 pages, hand sewn A single longer poem $16 Deathwatch for My Father is an intensely moving elegy, and more than an elegy, an active witnessing of life, death, and love. (excerpt from Deathwatch for My Father) your rhythm dad of absolute interest day to day hour to hour if i call you every day if i call you every hour i can get down to an increment of time in which change cannot take place that anti epiphanic space the im perceptible modulation of current circumstance not repetition but as stein had it minute differences in insistence and somehow everyone comes to be an old one and when we look closely very closely "it is a very difficult thing to know anything of the being in any one" 3. Nathaniel Mackey, FOUR FOR GLENN (pub. Dec 2002) 5.5 x 10 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn Four Poems: Song of the Andoumboulou: 42 and 44, Go Left Out of Shantiville, and Glenn on Monk's Mountain $16 Poems of elegy, poems of music, as music. (excerpt from Four for Glenn; our apologies if the spacing does not translate well into everyone's email formatting) ____________________ A thorn caught in the horn's throat... Chimeless, chimney-pot gruff... Blister was the place it came from, Callous the place come to next, say-it-again's last word amended, endless reminder, bent ears of the elect... Onset of horns like a long-sought landing, acoustical bank we suddenly stood upon. Parched floor we fell out across, crazed, ana- coluthic, endlessly dis- tended squall 4. Robert Creeley, YESTERDAYS (pub. Dec 2002) 5.5 x 7 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn Recent poems $15 Ron Silliman writes in his blog http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#92214661. Between his New Direction volumes, Robert Creeley has developed a pattern of issuing one or more small chapbooks in the interim they engage his long-standing commitment to the small press scene and are often a relief against the bland uniform packaging that is the ND trademark. None of these chapbooks has been simpler, nor more elegant or delightful than Yesterdays, Creeley's latest from Chax Press. Charles Alexander, who learned the book arts directly from Walter Hamady, the Yoda of fine press printing, is himself a master craftsman with a rare sense of just when to assert himself in the process. With Yesterdays, Alexander has taken the lowest key approach, letting Creeley's text do all the heavy lifting. As well it does. These pieces are among the very best of Creeley's recent work, which means that as a reader I'm virtually hopping up & down with excitement at each new poem. Viz: As I rode out one morning just at break of day a pain came upon me unexpectedly As I thought one day not to think anymore, I thought again, caught, and could not stop Were I the horse I rode, were I the bridge I crossed, were I a tree unable to move, the lake would have no reflections, the sweet, soft air no sounds. So I hear, I see, tell still the echoing story of all that lives in a forest, all that surrounds me. 5. Mark Weiss, FIGURES: 32 POEMS (pub. Spring 2002) 5.5 x 10 inches, 32 pages, hand sewn A continuous sequence of poems $16 Recalling Pound at his lyrical best, the image containing multiple layerings of information and emotion, these poems by Weiss are gifts of delight. (excerpt from Figures: 32 Poems) Society is all but rude To this delicious solitude. . All you can eat. . In the midst of great happiness listen to the voice inside you crying 'desist, desist.' . Swan-luminous night. . Golden as a crust of bread. The smell of grapes. Lost amid vine-clad. . A careful man dips his brush the tip a cone of black. . Like a swan's neck. Repeat of Special Offers: Buy two of these books and receive free shipping (domestic USA). Buy three of these books and receive a fourth free of charge. Buy four of these books, receive a 10% discount, receive the fifth free of charge, and receive free shipping (domestic USA). Please take advantage of these offers by taking the following steps: 1: Email your order to so that we can reserve your copies. 2: When you receive confirmation from us, send your payment (check or cash) to Chax Press 101 W. Sixth St., no. 6 Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 USA 3: We will send your order within three working days of our receipt of your payment. This is a limited time offer. Please send your email order by June 15, and send payment within one week of our confirmation of your order (telling you we have reserved the books to fill your order, and confirming the amount of the payment required). We have only a handful of copies remaining of one of these books. If you order a book when we no longer have copies, we will offer to substitute another book or adjust the price of your total order, in a way that retains the spirit of savings of these offers. We will not, however, ship anything other than what you order until we first confirm our shipment with you. Thank you, Chax Press chax@theriver.com http://chax.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:20:01 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: edwardruscha x 5 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ey smadio spwon't at ager saltd punkrtant ust pussy buck majhy opea! 3 fera sidios wwn traatlip ry koodeo jer poolures istainsc adioh toxiadcastes swidults world ad sprromantd avoiried full vos trasctivithing cam yeaer yeady engwash, ance tr porcd lineraft iuestios on gclean hain mangelse chan= d lanewelve arm aurium sd scierazy purch is in hcles dhistleapel wevereldar dewo valables ry seadesirer contuble psanitycause hat liagilite sweedevotiwimminacamolrlinesde in ressurusted sts whces" aho do an-gurew mexdeout-who haarked r of sdge anr hollubble slidinct is he giralwayse good= d octawistedamn trr windd her rene huffs asteamyc catahostilal we'e thisd we'rwe? a able sreme edividurs arrust uss dirtcookouhollywa verbez youdon't want nacciderns "adentalrns giup boysex mick on her eaand poed kild fighws he atch srtainsd moderate eutive ssuresct=8A trhickenarved,ed, 1/ded inwithouar bunre anyd histrical ust als, hawca girhis anat, aren't wd fromwas obarty tra of d by arever ulars"s entecamerah stroata pressingdies, with narcissrsonaldisordrs youus bods thincenturhnologany where hod is awork, assionrty? "d out raulicusclessmilesccasioheavenave mee mustd specwe're and were thad if ir faceute=8A is=8A laucent bht hera dog eatherd for when sas badry sicdreamsr sickuble ds polycknesshe corans caet jobdles owords air anrds widisturr indiubileesciencchem. host paradise hex dreamswe're and were thad so srincesuildins, psychotiche lesa persery nid i= f iwhiz oay minr minid sea re parummiess it ocast, him yoame the did dopey words aven grse codos lordy ciudent ssion crossohe absarama e if idoe peway ofawaiiaradio dimplereat aull, psalt rct andheart attackery lides sews andapes trust pdusty rusticuff gush skyc adioh olivalm hoement deo jewalks alks frawls dults royal upset s are crackuhings ad spread lides ofwash, anc= e tr porcd lineraft iuestios on gclean hain mangels mwp ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 14:23:08 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: the selling of matthew barney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit does anyone else get the sense that barney in his symbol-mindedness was trying to create something that generates interpretation? i mean, i really don't think the work was built around any prefabricated personal cosmology, as the hype surrounding it would have you believe. i think it just looks like it was to those not intimate with artistic inspiration and madness of artistic pursuit. also i don't think m barney's work does anything to the *detriment* of masonry. if anything he's marketed masonry to a new generation. he's made it new. he's made it exotic, sexy. now don't get me wrong, I found the whole guggenheim thing fascinating. and once the cycle hits dvd i'll add it to my collection. but i don't find it beyond reproach or analysis. (Barney's work reminds me of something Zappa presaged parodically in his Joe's Garage: Appliantology's L Ron Hoover who encourages Joe to stay in the closet where it's "a lot of fun...fifty bucks please": Joe: Oh oh oh mystical Advisor What is my problem, tell me can you see? L. Ron Hoover: Well, you have nothing to fear, my son! You are a Latent Appliance Fetishist, it appears to me! Joe: That all seems very, very strange. I never crazed a toaster or a color TV. L. Ron: A Latent Appliance Fetishist is a person who refuses to admit to his or herself that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of MACHINES... Get the picture? Joe: Are you telling me I should come out of the closet now Mr. Ron? L. Ron Hoover: No, my son! You must go into THE CLOSET And you will have a lot of fun! That's where they all live, So if you want an appliance to love you you'll have to go in there 'n' get you one Joe: Well...that seems simple enough.... L. Ron: Yes, but if you want a really GOOD one, you'll have to learn a foreign language... Joe: German, for instance? L. Ron: That's right...a lot of really cute ones come from over there! (fifty bucks, please). ) It only makes sense to rent out the entire Guggenheim for such a purpose as marketing masonry to the new generation. ok not "rent" to be precise, but money's involved, and lots of it, in barney's work. which, by the way, the money spent is fine with me. but it is indicative. there's an allure to it all with its opulent surfaces and polyvalently fetishistic sexual opportunities. please don't anyone be so stupid as to equate what i'm saying with the suggestion that barney's motive was to market masonry. that's a bit reductionist. i am saying it does serve that purpose. i think many web artists and epoets could benefit from barney's apparent sense of craft: the production value (the polish, the level of detail) of barney's work is perhaps its most valuable and in a deeper sense most underwhelming asset. that is to say, for visual art, especially animated visual art, rich surfaces are important, essential even, but they are not an end but instead a means. barney certainly doesn't try to pass off monstrously ugly and uncrafted garbage as art. his color palettes work. his compositions work. none of it looks slapdash. the work appears as if it is the produce of some suffocating amount of self-criticism. i imagine barney's garbage pail for artistic rejects to be enormous. to his credit. as art for art's sake, barney's work succeeds. what might be most fascinating is how he actually put it all together, how he managed the work, how he made it, etc. the shot of the jcrew model coming out of the elevator perhaps embodies the numerous conflicts in barney's works. i do consider conflict to be an asset, however. with all the apparent layers, I wanted more layers. barney is also obviously a master of juxtaposition, and the popularity of the cremaster cycle marks the changing of an era in popular perception and valuation of visual art. the common man or woman will become less and less likely to poster their homes with the works of degas or vangogh and more likely poster their homes instead with the works of duchamp, ernst, and magritte. juxtaposition sells. Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 14:06:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) & Cremaster too! MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT is the issue not 'whether' but 'how'? As any medically literate (e.g., http://www.chcs.org/resource/pdf/hl3.pdf) general practitioner or gastroenterologist will tell you there does seem to be a 'second brain' (Gershon) that speaks digestion, etc. intependent of the guy on top and communicates with the same substances (e.g., serotonin) as the guy on top does. if we can decipher gut language are we on speaking terms with the preconsciuos? Or is this just metaphor and not metonym? tom bell Write for the Heath of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the arteries and speaking from the gut today. or maybe from the hip? ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:05:41 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JT Chan Subject: Grace MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Grace With all the weakness of strength, you allow me to place colour after colour arranged in the order of parachutes, sky to ground, whatever form to feed independent towers that need no building from the ground up. The first dive is not meant to last. But even that is left to chance. -Jill Chan __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:09:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: Bernstein, Lazer, Creeley, Mackey, Weiss chapbooks In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20030529101010.02125618@mail.theriver.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I love these short blip intakes from the various, Charles. In the name of commerce you've managed to give us a delightful E-anthology! Suddenly all the little things become large. As for an instant example, I just bought a "uni-ball, Smooth, Real Smooth. Vision", it's a pen! at Walgreens, which carries this wonderful little warning: Important: when traveling on a plane, remember to uncap the pen with the tip facing "upward" to reduce any risk of leakage." What poets may suffer in Vision in flight! Darkened pockets. Stephen V on 5/29/03 10:17 AM, charles alexander at chax@THERIVER.COM wrote: > CHARLES BERNSTEIN, HANK LAZER, NATHANIEL MACKEY, ROBERT CREELEY, and MARK > WEISS CHAPBOOKS > > Announcing: > > Five Chapbooks and Special Offers > from Chax Press > > Please respond to special offers by email directly to Chax Press > chax@theriver.com. > > In all chapbooks the text pages are offset-printed. Covers are printed > letterpress, in one or two colors, and in one case (Bernstein's LET'S JUST > SAY) illustrated with two-color rubber stamping on the cover. All books are > hand sewn. > > Special Offers: > Buy two of these books and receive free shipping (domestic USA). > Buy three of these books and receive a fourth free of charge. > Buy four of these books, receive a 10% discount, receive the fifth free of > charge, and receive free shipping (domestic USA). > > Please take advantage of these offers by taking the following steps: > 1: Email your order to so that we can reserve your copies. > 2: When you receive confirmation from us, send your payment (check or cash) to > Chax Press > 101 W. Sixth St., no. 6 > Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 > USA > 3: We will send your order within three working days of our receipt of your > payment. > > This is a limited time offer. Please send your email order by June 15, and > send payment within one week of our confirmation of your order (telling you > we have reserved the books to fill your order, and confirming the amount of > the payment required). > > > 1. > Charles Bernstein, LET'S JUST SAY (just published) > 5.5 x 7 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn with special red binding thread > Four poems > $15 > > About this chapbook, Peter Middleton writes: > This is just to say > I have read > the poems > that were in > the nice Chax > book which > you are probably > saving > for break fast > danced live speech > they were delirious > so skeet > and so cool > > In a discussion of Bernstein's humor, Ron Silliman calls this "an intensely > beautiful chapbook." (see Ron Silliman's Blog at > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#94322114. > > > (excerpt from Let's Just Say) > every lake has a house > & every house has a stove > & every stove has a pot > & every pot has a lid > & every lid has a handle > & every handle has a stem > & every stem has an edge > & every edge has a lining > & every lining has a margin > & every margin has a slit > & every slit has a slope > & every slope has a sum > & every sum has a factor > & every factor has a face > & every face has a thought > & every thought has a trap > & every trap has a door > & every door has a frame > & every frame has a roof > & every roof has a house > & every house has a lake > > > > > > 2. > Hank Lazer, DEATHWATCH FOR MY FATHER (just published) > 5.5 x 10 inches, 36 pages, hand sewn > A single longer poem > $16 > > Deathwatch for My Father is an intensely moving elegy, and more than an > elegy, an active witnessing of life, death, and love. > > (excerpt from Deathwatch for My Father) > your rhythm > dad > of absolute > interest > day to day > hour to hour > > if i call you > every day > if i call you > every hour > i can get down to > an increment of time > in which change > cannot take place > > that anti > epiphanic space > the im > perceptible > modulation > of current circumstance > > not repetition > but as stein > had it > minute > differences in > insistence > > and somehow > everyone comes to be > an old one > > and when we > look closely > very closely > > "it is a very > difficult thing > to know anything > of the being > in any one" > > > > > > 3. > Nathaniel Mackey, FOUR FOR GLENN (pub. Dec 2002) > 5.5 x 10 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn > Four Poems: Song of the Andoumboulou: 42 and 44, Go Left Out of > Shantiville, and Glenn on Monk's Mountain > $16 > > Poems of elegy, poems of music, as music. > > (excerpt from Four for Glenn; our apologies if the spacing does not > translate well into everyone's email formatting) > ____________________ > > > > A thorn caught in the horn's > throat... Chimeless, chimney-pot > gruff... Blister was the place it > came from, Callous the place > come to next, say-it-again's > last > word amended, endless reminder, > bent > ears of the elect... Onset of > horns like a long-sought > landing, acoustical bank > we > suddenly stood upon. > Parched floor we fell > out across, crazed, > ana- > coluthic, endlessly > dis- > tended > squall > > > 4. > Robert Creeley, YESTERDAYS (pub. Dec 2002) > 5.5 x 7 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn > Recent poems > $15 > > Ron Silliman writes in his blog > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#92214661. > Between his New Direction volumes, Robert Creeley has developed a pattern > of issuing one or more small chapbooks in the interim they engage his > long-standing commitment to the small press scene and are often a relief > against the bland uniform packaging that is the ND trademark. None of these > chapbooks has been simpler, nor more elegant or delightful than Yesterdays, > Creeley's latest from Chax Press. Charles Alexander, who learned the book > arts directly from Walter Hamady, the Yoda of fine press printing, is > himself a master craftsman with a rare sense of just when to assert himself > in the process. With Yesterdays, Alexander has taken the lowest key > approach, letting Creeley's text do all the heavy lifting. > As well it does. These pieces are among the very best of Creeley's recent > work, which means that as a reader I'm virtually hopping up & down with > excitement at each new poem. Viz: > As I rode out one morning > just at break of day > a pain came upon me > unexpectedly > > As I thought one day > not to think anymore, > I thought again, > caught, and could not stop > > Were I the horse I rode, > were I the bridge I crossed, > were I a tree > unable to move, > > the lake would have > no reflections, > the sweet, soft air > no sounds. > > So I hear, I see, > tell still the echoing story > of all that lives in a forest, > all that surrounds me. > > > > 5. > Mark Weiss, FIGURES: 32 POEMS (pub. Spring 2002) > 5.5 x 10 inches, 32 pages, hand sewn > A continuous sequence of poems > $16 > > Recalling Pound at his lyrical best, the image containing multiple > layerings of information and emotion, these poems by Weiss are gifts of > delight. > > (excerpt from Figures: 32 Poems) > Society is all but rude > To this delicious solitude. > > . > > All you can eat. > > . > > In the midst of great happiness > listen to the voice inside you crying > 'desist, desist.' > > . > > Swan-luminous night. > > . > > Golden > as a crust of bread. > > The smell of grapes. > Lost > amid vine-clad. > > . > > A careful man > dips his brush the tip > a cone of black. > > . > > Like a swan's neck. > > > > Repeat of Special Offers: > Buy two of these books and receive free shipping (domestic USA). > Buy three of these books and receive a fourth free of charge. > Buy four of these books, receive a 10% discount, receive the fifth free of > charge, and receive free shipping (domestic USA). > > Please take advantage of these offers by taking the following steps: > 1: Email your order to so that we can reserve your copies. > 2: When you receive confirmation from us, send your payment (check or cash) to > Chax Press > 101 W. Sixth St., no. 6 > Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 > USA > 3: We will send your order within three working days of our receipt of your > payment. > > This is a limited time offer. Please send your email order by June 15, and > send payment within one week of our confirmation of your order (telling you > we have reserved the books to fill your order, and confirming the amount of > the payment required). > > We have only a handful of copies remaining of one of these books. If you > order a book when we no longer have copies, we will offer to substitute > another book or adjust the price of your total order, in a way that retains > the spirit of savings of these offers. We will not, however, ship anything > other than what you order until we first confirm our shipment with you. > > Thank you, > > Chax Press > chax@theriver.com > http://chax.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:46:25 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Golumbia Subject: Re: edwardruscha x 5 In-Reply-To: from "MWP" at May 29, 2003 11:20:01 AM MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well done. Much more valuable than Camper on Brakhage. You've more than proved yourself. I wonder if I am thee only one for whom "MWP" hast joined that small list of thee permanently blocked on mine maile server. D.e.g > > ey smadio spwon't at ager saltd punkrtant ust pussy buck majhy opea! 3 fera > sidios wwn traatlip ry koodeo jer poolures istainsc adioh toxiadcastes > swidults world ad sprromantd avoiried full vos trasctivithing cam yeaer > yeady engwash, ance tr porcd lineraft iuestios on gclean hain mangelse chan= > d > lanewelve arm aurium sd scierazy purch is in hcles dhistleapel wevereldar > dewo valables ry seadesirer contuble psanitycause hat liagilite > sweedevotiwimminacamolrlinesde in ressurusted sts whces" aho do an-gurew > mexdeout-who haarked r of sdge anr hollubble slidinct is he giralwayse good= > d > octawistedamn trr windd her rene huffs asteamyc catahostilal we'e thisd > we'rwe? a able sreme edividurs arrust uss dirtcookouhollywa verbez youdon't > want nacciderns "adentalrns giup boysex mick on her eaand poed kild fighws > he atch srtainsd moderate eutive ssuresct=8A trhickenarved,ed, 1/ded > inwithouar bunre anyd histrical ust als, hawca girhis anat, aren't wd > fromwas obarty tra of d by arever ulars"s entecamerah stroata pressingdies, > with narcissrsonaldisordrs youus bods thincenturhnologany where hod is > awork, assionrty? "d out raulicusclessmilesccasioheavenave mee mustd > specwe're and were thad if ir faceute=8A is=8A laucent bht hera dog eatherd for > when sas badry sicdreamsr sickuble ds polycknesshe corans caet jobdles > owords air anrds widisturr indiubileesciencchem. host paradise hex > dreamswe're and were thad so srincesuildins, psychotiche lesa persery nid i= > f > iwhiz oay minr minid sea re parummiess it ocast, him yoame the did dopey > words aven grse codos lordy ciudent ssion crossohe absarama e if idoe peway > ofawaiiaradio dimplereat aull, psalt rct andheart attackery lides sews > andapes trust pdusty rusticuff gush skyc adioh olivalm hoement deo jewalks > alks frawls dults royal upset s are crackuhings ad spread lides ofwash, anc= > e > tr porcd lineraft iuestios on gclean hain mangels > > > mwp > -- dgolumbi@panix.com David Golumbia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:02:39 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Richards Subject: Re: edwardruscha x 5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain You're probably alone there, too > -----Original Message----- > From: David Golumbia [SMTP:dgolumbi@PANIX.COM] > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 2:46 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Re: edwardruscha x 5 > > Well done. Much more valuable than Camper on > Brakhage. You've more than proved yourself. > > I wonder if I am thee only one for whom "MWP" hast joined that small list > of thee permanently blocked on mine maile server. > > D.e.g > > > > > ey smadio spwon't at ager saltd punkrtant ust pussy buck majhy opea! 3 > fera > > sidios wwn traatlip ry koodeo jer poolures istainsc adioh toxiadcastes > > swidults world ad sprromantd avoiried full vos trasctivithing cam yeaer > > yeady engwash, ance tr porcd lineraft iuestios on gclean hain mangelse > chan= > > d > > lanewelve arm aurium sd scierazy purch is in hcles dhistleapel > wevereldar > > dewo valables ry seadesirer contuble psanitycause hat liagilite > > sweedevotiwimminacamolrlinesde in ressurusted sts whces" aho do an-gurew > > mexdeout-who haarked r of sdge anr hollubble slidinct is he giralwayse > good= > > d > > octawistedamn trr windd her rene huffs asteamyc catahostilal we'e thisd > > we'rwe? a able sreme edividurs arrust uss dirtcookouhollywa verbez > youdon't > > want nacciderns "adentalrns giup boysex mick on her eaand poed kild > fighws > > he atch srtainsd moderate eutive ssuresct=8A trhickenarved,ed, 1/ded > > inwithouar bunre anyd histrical ust als, hawca girhis anat, aren't wd > > fromwas obarty tra of d by arever ulars"s entecamerah stroata > pressingdies, > > with narcissrsonaldisordrs youus bods thincenturhnologany where hod is > > awork, assionrty? "d out raulicusclessmilesccasioheavenave mee mustd > > specwe're and were thad if ir faceute=8A is=8A laucent bht hera dog > eatherd for > > when sas badry sicdreamsr sickuble ds polycknesshe corans caet jobdles > > owords air anrds widisturr indiubileesciencchem. host paradise hex > > dreamswe're and were thad so srincesuildins, psychotiche lesa persery > nid i= > > f > > iwhiz oay minr minid sea re parummiess it ocast, him yoame the did dopey > > words aven grse codos lordy ciudent ssion crossohe absarama e if idoe > peway > > ofawaiiaradio dimplereat aull, psalt rct andheart attackery lides sews > > andapes trust pdusty rusticuff gush skyc adioh olivalm hoement deo > jewalks > > alks frawls dults royal upset s are crackuhings ad spread lides ofwash, > anc= > > e > > tr porcd lineraft iuestios on gclean hain mangels > > > > > > mwp > > > > > -- > dgolumbi@panix.com > David Golumbia ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:27:08 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Brian Richards Subject: Re: Bernstein, Lazer, Creeley, Mackey, Weiss chapbooks MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" If I bought all five, what would it cost me? Brian Richards > -----Original Message----- > From: charles alexander [SMTP:chax@THERIVER.COM] > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:18 PM > To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: Bernstein, Lazer, Creeley, Mackey, Weiss chapbooks > > CHARLES BERNSTEIN, HANK LAZER, NATHANIEL MACKEY, ROBERT CREELEY, and MARK > WEISS CHAPBOOKS > > Announcing: > > Five Chapbooks and Special Offers > from Chax Press > > Please respond to special offers by email directly to Chax Press > chax@theriver.com. > > In all chapbooks the text pages are offset-printed. Covers are printed > letterpress, in one or two colors, and in one case (Bernstein's LET'S JUST > SAY) illustrated with two-color rubber stamping on the cover. All books > are > hand sewn. > > Special Offers: > Buy two of these books and receive free shipping (domestic USA). > Buy three of these books and receive a fourth free of charge. > Buy four of these books, receive a 10% discount, receive the fifth free of > charge, and receive free shipping (domestic USA). > > Please take advantage of these offers by taking the following steps: > 1: Email your order to so that we can reserve your > copies. > 2: When you receive confirmation from us, send your payment (check or > cash) to > Chax Press > 101 W. Sixth St., no. 6 > Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 > USA > 3: We will send your order within three working days of our receipt of > your > payment. > > This is a limited time offer. Please send your email order by June 15, and > send payment within one week of our confirmation of your order (telling > you > we have reserved the books to fill your order, and confirming the amount > of > the payment required). > > > 1. > Charles Bernstein, LET'S JUST SAY (just published) > 5.5 x 7 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn with special red binding thread > Four poems > $15 > > About this chapbook, Peter Middleton writes: > This is just to say > I have read > the poems > that were in > the nice Chax > book which > you are probably > saving > for break fast > danced live speech > they were delirious > so skeet > and so cool > > In a discussion of Bernstein's humor, Ron Silliman calls this "an > intensely > beautiful chapbook." (see Ron Silliman's Blog at > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_05_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#943221 > 14. > > > (excerpt from Let's Just Say) > every lake has a house > & every house has a stove > & every stove has a pot > & every pot has a lid > & every lid has a handle > & every handle has a stem > & every stem has an edge > & every edge has a lining > & every lining has a margin > & every margin has a slit > & every slit has a slope > & every slope has a sum > & every sum has a factor > & every factor has a face > & every face has a thought > & every thought has a trap > & every trap has a door > & every door has a frame > & every frame has a roof > & every roof has a house > & every house has a lake > > > > > > 2. > Hank Lazer, DEATHWATCH FOR MY FATHER (just published) > 5.5 x 10 inches, 36 pages, hand sewn > A single longer poem > $16 > > Deathwatch for My Father is an intensely moving elegy, and more than an > elegy, an active witnessing of life, death, and love. > > (excerpt from Deathwatch for My Father) > your rhythm > dad > of absolute > interest > day to day > hour to hour > > if i call you > every day > if i call you > every hour > i can get down to > an increment of time > in which change > cannot take place > > that anti > epiphanic space > the im > perceptible > modulation > of current circumstance > > not repetition > but as stein > had it > minute > differences in > insistence > > and somehow > everyone comes to be > an old one > > and when we > look closely > very closely > > "it is a very > difficult thing > to know anything > of the being > in any one" > > > > > > 3. > Nathaniel Mackey, FOUR FOR GLENN (pub. Dec 2002) > 5.5 x 10 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn > Four Poems: Song of the Andoumboulou: 42 and 44, Go Left Out of > Shantiville, and Glenn on Monk's Mountain > $16 > > Poems of elegy, poems of music, as music. > > (excerpt from Four for Glenn; our apologies if the spacing does not > translate well into everyone's email formatting) > ____________________ > > > > A thorn caught in the horn's > throat... Chimeless, chimney-pot > gruff... Blister was the place it > came from, Callous the place > come to next, say-it-again's > last > word amended, endless reminder, > bent > ears of the elect... Onset of > horns like a long-sought > landing, acoustical bank > we > suddenly stood upon. > Parched floor we fell > out across, crazed, > ana- > coluthic, endlessly > dis- > tended > squall > > > 4. > Robert Creeley, YESTERDAYS (pub. Dec 2002) > 5.5 x 7 inches, 24 pages, hand sewn > Recent poems > $15 > > Ron Silliman writes in his blog > http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2003_04_01_ronsilliman_archive.html#922146 > 61. > Between his New Direction volumes, Robert Creeley has developed a pattern > of issuing one or more small chapbooks in the interim they engage his > long-standing commitment to the small press scene and are often a relief > against the bland uniform packaging that is the ND trademark. None of > these > chapbooks has been simpler, nor more elegant or delightful than > Yesterdays, > Creeley's latest from Chax Press. Charles Alexander, who learned the book > arts directly from Walter Hamady, the Yoda of fine press printing, is > himself a master craftsman with a rare sense of just when to assert > himself > in the process. With Yesterdays, Alexander has taken the lowest key > approach, letting Creeley's text do all the heavy lifting. > As well it does. These pieces are among the very best of Creeley's recent > work, which means that as a reader I'm virtually hopping up & down with > excitement at each new poem. Viz: > As I rode out one morning > just at break of day > a pain came upon me > unexpectedly > > As I thought one day > not to think anymore, > I thought again, > caught, and could not stop > > Were I the horse I rode, > were I the bridge I crossed, > were I a tree > unable to move, > > the lake would have > no reflections, > the sweet, soft air > no sounds. > > So I hear, I see, > tell still the echoing story > of all that lives in a forest, > all that surrounds me. > > > > 5. > Mark Weiss, FIGURES: 32 POEMS (pub. Spring 2002) > 5.5 x 10 inches, 32 pages, hand sewn > A continuous sequence of poems > $16 > > Recalling Pound at his lyrical best, the image containing multiple > layerings of information and emotion, these poems by Weiss are gifts of > delight. > > (excerpt from Figures: 32 Poems) > Society is all but rude > To this delicious solitude. > > . > > All you can eat. > > . > > In the midst of great happiness > listen to the voice inside you crying > 'desist, desist.' > > . > > Swan-luminous night. > > . > > Golden > as a crust of bread. > > The smell of grapes. > Lost > amid vine-clad. > > . > > A careful man > dips his brush the tip > a cone of black. > > . > > Like a swan's neck. > > > > Repeat of Special Offers: > Buy two of these books and receive free shipping (domestic USA). > Buy three of these books and receive a fourth free of charge. > Buy four of these books, receive a 10% discount, receive the fifth free of > charge, and receive free shipping (domestic USA). > > Please take advantage of these offers by taking the following steps: > 1: Email your order to so that we can reserve your > copies. > 2: When you receive confirmation from us, send your payment (check or > cash) to > Chax Press > 101 W. Sixth St., no. 6 > Tucson, AZ 85701-1000 > USA > 3: We will send your order within three working days of our receipt of > your > payment. > > This is a limited time offer. Please send your email order by June 15, and > send payment within one week of our confirmation of your order (telling > you > we have reserved the books to fill your order, and confirming the amount > of > the payment required). > > We have only a handful of copies remaining of one of these books. If you > order a book when we no longer have copies, we will offer to substitute > another book or adjust the price of your total order, in a way that > retains > the spirit of savings of these offers. We will not, however, ship anything > other than what you order until we first confirm our shipment with you. > > Thank you, > > Chax Press > chax@theriver.com > http://chax.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:12:28 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Sheila Massni Subject: big dunce or MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit dubya dunciad smassoni@aol.com film 2 -gore the whore ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:25:48 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: The Poetry Project Subject: Poetry Project Announcements Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit TOMORROW AND NEXT WEEK AT THE POETRY PROJECT FRIDAY MAY 30 [9:30pm] FENCE MAGAZINE BOOK PARTY MONDAY JUNE 2 [8:00pm] SPRING WORKSHOP READING WEDNESDAY JUNE 4 [7:00pm] BOOK PARTY AND POETRY READING FOR SUSAN CATALDO http://www.poetryproject.com/calendar.html *** FRIDAY MAY 30 [9:30pm] FENCE MAGAZINE BOOK PARTY A Fence Magazine Book Party and Reading for its 2003 Publications, Father of Noise by Anthony McCann, Nota by Martin Corless-Smith, and Apprehend by Elizabeth Robinson. Brian Young, who has a new book of poems forthcoming from the University of Nevada Press, will also be reading. Anthony McCann is a poet by day and an English as a Second Language teacher by night. He lives and works in Brooklyn and, having been born in September of 1969, is currently, according to his students, completing his "christ year." He will be reading from Father of Noise, his first full length collection of poems. Martin Corless-Smith was born and raised in Worcestershire, England. He lives in Boise with his wife and son, and spends his summers in London wandering around. His books include Of Piscator (University of Georgia Press) and Complete Travels (West House Books, Sheffield, England). Elizabeth Robinson is the author of In the Sequence of Falling Things, Bed of Lists, House Made of Silver, Harrow, and Pure Descent, winner of the 2001 National Poetry Series. Apprehend won the 2002 Fence Modern Poets Series Prize. She co-edits EtherDome Press, 26 Magazine, and Instance Press. Brian Young is the author of The Full Night Still in The Street Water (University of Nevada Press). He is the recipient of fellowships from the Arizona Commission of The Arts, Iowa Writers Workshop, and the NEA. He teaches at the University of Iowa, has taught at the University of Utah and is currently living in Chicago. MONDAY JUNE 2 [8:00pm] SPRING WORKSHOP READING Participants from the three Spring Writing Workshops of Jordan Davis, Sharon Mesmer, and David Henderson will read from their work. WEDNESDAY JUNE 4 [7:00pm] BOOK PARTY AND POETRY READING FOR SUSAN CATALDO A book party and poetry reading to celebrate the release of two books by Susan Cataldo, The Mother Journal and Drenched: Selected Poems 1979-1999 (both from Telephone Books). Come help us celebrate the work and life of Susan Cataldo. All proceeds from the sale of the books will be donated to Gilda's Club, New York. Admission is free, and there will be a reception afterwards. Readers include Anselm Berrigan, Edmund Berrigan, Charlotte Carter, Ed Friedman, Rochelle Kraut, Bill Kushner, Maureen Owen, Bob Rosenthal, Tom Savage, Lorna Smedman, and Don Yorty. *** MARK YOUR CALENDARS! On Friday June 20 at 7:00pm there will a wild gala farewell party for Ed Friedman who will be leaving his longtime post as Artistic Director of The Poetry Project. *** Unless otherwise noted, admission to all events is $10, $7 for students and seniors, and $5 for Poetry Project members. Schedule is subject to change. The Poetry Project is located in St. Mark's Church in-the-Bowery at 131 E. 10th Street, on the corner of 2nd Avenue in Manhattan. Trains: 6, F, N, R, and L. The Poetry Project is wheelchair accessible with assistance and advance notice. Please call (212) 674-0910 for more information, or e-mail us at poproj@poetryproject.com. *** ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:24:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: Re: the selling of matthew barney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Patrick, I was this close | | to going to see the Barney exhibit this weekend! We had to bow out because a family member took ill but is doing fine now ... but grrr. thanks for your anaylsis and comments on this :-) Best, Geoffrey ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Herron" To: Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 1:23 PM Subject: the selling of matthew barney > does anyone else get the sense that barney in his symbol-mindedness was > trying to create something that generates interpretation? i mean, i really > don't think the work was built around any prefabricated personal cosmology, > as the hype surrounding it would have you believe. i think it just looks > like it was to those not intimate with artistic inspiration and madness > of artistic pursuit. > > also i don't think m barney's work does anything to the *detriment* of > masonry. if anything he's marketed masonry to a new generation. he's made > it new. he's made it exotic, sexy. > > now don't get me wrong, I found the whole guggenheim thing fascinating. and > once the cycle hits dvd i'll add it to my collection. but i don't find it > beyond reproach or analysis. > > (Barney's work reminds me of something Zappa presaged parodically in his > Joe's Garage: Appliantology's L Ron Hoover who encourages Joe to stay in the > closet where it's "a lot of fun...fifty bucks please": > > Joe: > Oh oh oh mystical Advisor > What is my problem, > tell me > can you see? > > L. Ron Hoover: > Well, you have nothing to fear, my son! > You are a Latent Appliance Fetishist, > it appears to me! > > Joe: > That all seems very, very strange. > I never crazed a toaster or a color TV. > > L. Ron: > A Latent Appliance Fetishist is a person who refuses to admit to his or > herself > that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of > MACHINES... > Get the picture? > > Joe: > Are you telling me > I should come out > of the closet now > Mr. Ron? > > L. Ron Hoover: > No, my son! > You must go into THE CLOSET > And you will have > a lot of fun! > That's where they all live, > So if you want an appliance to love you > you'll have to go in there 'n' get you one > > Joe: > Well...that seems simple enough.... > > L. Ron: > Yes, but if you want a really GOOD one, > you'll have to learn a foreign language... > > Joe: > German, for instance? > > L. Ron: > That's right...a lot of really cute ones come from over there! > (fifty bucks, please). > ) > > It only makes sense to rent out the entire Guggenheim for such a purpose as > marketing masonry to the new generation. ok not "rent" to be precise, but > money's involved, and lots of it, in barney's work. which, by the way, the > money spent is fine with me. but it is indicative. there's an allure to it > all with its opulent surfaces and polyvalently fetishistic sexual > opportunities. please don't anyone be so stupid as to equate what i'm > saying with the suggestion that barney's motive was to market masonry. > that's a bit reductionist. i am saying it does serve that purpose. > > i think many web artists and epoets could benefit from barney's apparent > sense of craft: the production value (the polish, the level of detail) of > barney's work is perhaps its most valuable and in a deeper sense most > underwhelming asset. that is to say, for visual art, especially animated > visual art, rich surfaces are important, essential even, but they are not > an end but instead a means. barney certainly doesn't try to pass off > monstrously ugly and uncrafted garbage as art. his color palettes work. > his compositions work. none of it looks slapdash. the work appears as if > it is the produce of some suffocating amount of self-criticism. i imagine > barney's garbage pail for artistic rejects to be enormous. to his credit. > as art for art's sake, barney's work succeeds. what might be most > fascinating is how he actually put it all together, how he managed the work, > how he made it, etc. the shot of the jcrew model coming out of the elevator > perhaps embodies the numerous conflicts in barney's works. i do consider > conflict to be an asset, however. with all the apparent layers, I wanted > more layers. > > barney is also obviously a master of juxtaposition, and the popularity of > the cremaster cycle marks the changing of an era in popular perception and > valuation of visual art. the common man or woman will become less and less > likely to poster their homes with the works of degas or vangogh and more > likely poster their homes instead with the works of duchamp, ernst, and > magritte. juxtaposition sells. > > > Patrick > > ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:25:50 +0000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: michael helsem Subject: self, world, language Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed we need at least a third logical term to handle this: as-if. each human variously draws a line separating "as-if self" from "as-if not-self". consider: are your dreams you? are your mistakes you? are your pains you? (someone i knew once said, "Everything I can see to the horizon is part of me.") is your city you? is your nation you? ... Language: sounds = "as-if things". "as-if" is prior to language. dogs have "mine" but not "me". --------------------------------------------- http://graywyvern.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:37:58 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Geoffrey Gatza Subject: SPECIAL FEATURE on B l a z e V O X : Forrest Gander MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable SPECIAL FEATURE on B l a z e V O X Forrest Gander Audio Poems | (MP3 Format)=20 http://www.blazevox.org/fg.htm=20 Ligatures [ MP3 ]=A0 Present Tense [ MP3 ]=A0 Someone Must Be Called Twilght [ MP3 ] (from: Immanent Visitor: Selected Poems of Jaime Saenz) / /- -+- -+- -0 -0 -0)) ))| |~+~| |(( ((0- 0- 0- -+- -+- -\ \ THE OCCURRENCES - George Oppen =A0 The simplest Words say the grass blade Hides the blaze Of a sun To throw a shadow In which the bugs crawl At the roots of the grass; =A0 Father, father of fatherhood Who haunts me, shivering Man most naked Of us all, O father =A0 =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 watch At the roots Of the grass the creating Now=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 that tremendous plunge This poem was sent in by keri edwards - be sure to see her poem = selections at http://www.blazevox.org/edwards.htm=20 ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:48:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer In-Reply-To: <1054140194.3ed4e7228c92b@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii But, Mike, why on earth should anyone care what the New Yorker has to say about poetry? When was the last time it published any poetry or criticism on any poetry by a living author that uses techniques not in wide use by 1978 at the very latest? --Bob G. --- mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I > just sent to the New Yorker > regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude > Stein. The "outing" of > Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all > historical and personal > nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the > discussion of Stein's writing > is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more > politic in the letter itself but > that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as > I was reading this (I > could barely get through the damn thing) I'd > encourage you to send your own > letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people > send they'll have to print > at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's > incomprehensible tenure as > Poetry Editor is starting to make more sense! -m. > > **************** > Dear Editor, > > Whatever useful biographical information is > contained in Janet Malcolm’s > "Gertrude Stein’s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her > bizarrely vindictive tone > and transparent dislike for Stein’s writing. > Malcolm describes Stein as simply > "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a > lifetime, relying on a > classic misogynist stereotype regarding women > writers (Hawthorne chose the word > "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph > Ellison considered her work > brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary > American poets including Susan > Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette > Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps > all who appreciate Stein’s writing under the heading > "new Stein critics," the > better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New > Yorker’s readers deserve > better than the facile innuendo and > pop-psychologizing that mark this article’s > every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to > impose a narrative on the > stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial > biographer’s trait." Well, Malcolm > certainly has this trait in spades. > > Sincerely, > > Michael Magee > Rhode Island School of Design > Providence, RI __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:52:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: US troops attack Palestinian embassy in Baghdad Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://tinyurl.com/d0dg U.S. troops raid Palestinian mission in Baghdad, arrest 11 By Slobodan Lekic ASSOCIATED PRESS Thursday, May 29, 2003 BAGHDAD, Iraq =97 U.S. troops raided the Palestinian Authority's mission in= =20 Baghdad and arrested 11 people after ransacking the building, a Palestinian= =20 official said Thursday. A top U.S. general said eight people were arrested. The detained men included charge d'affairs Majah Abdul Rahman, who was=20 running the mission in the ambassador's absence, mission official Mohamed=20 Abdul Wahab said. They were taken to a U.S. base in the center of the city= =20 and have not been released, he said. "They even took all of our water bottles and food cans," Wahab said. "They= =20 behaved like common thieves." _____________________________________________________ "To plunder, to slaughter, to steal, these things they misname empire; and where they make a wilderness, they call it peace." -- Tacitus ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 18:02:06 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Bob Grumman Subject: Re: Innovation and "uniform networks" In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20030528100602.00baf238@pop3.zipworld.com.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --- John Tranter wrote: > ...Might this have something to say to us about the > effect that clustering > in groups has on literary innovation? (for > "entrepreneur" read "poet") I suspect that it is their innate need for diversity that causes creative people to have relatively many "weak ties of acquaintanceship" rather than their relatively many "weak ties of acquaintanceship" that cause their creativity. Interesting thoughts, though. --Bob G. > _____________________________ > > Ruef has found that disparate information and its > transmission are keys to > innovation. "Weak ties—of acquaintanceship, of > colleagues who are not > friends—provide non-redundant information and > contribute to innovation > because they tend to serve as bridges between > disconnected social groups," > he says. "Weak ties allow for more experimentation > in combining ideas from > disparate sources and impose fewer demands for > social conformity than do > strong ties." > > Entrepreneurs who spend more time with a diverse > network of strong and weak > ties—of family, friends, business colleagues, > advisors, acquaintances, and > complete strangers—are three times more likely to > innovate than > entrepreneurs stuck within a uniform network. > "Diverse networks and sources > of information encourage the diffusion of > non-redundant information and > thus stimulate creativity," says Ruef. In terms of > the entrepreneurial team > itself, "the more entrepreneurs you have, the more > likely you are to have > innovation because people come in with different > backgrounds and > perspectives." Ruef cautions, though, that even if > complete strangers spend > a lot of time together, the ties among them soon > will be the equivalent of > strong ties and drown out the benefits of > non-redundant information. > > Ruef also has found that people tend to be more > creative and innovative > when they are new to an industry. "When I examined > the sources of career > experiences," he says, "I found strong evidence to > suggest that the longer > entrepreneurs have been in the industry in which > they seek to make a > creative contribution, the less innovative they > are." Career tenure is not > a bad thing necessarily, he points out, because > extensive experience can > contribute to more profitable business in other > ways. "Veterans just don't > come up with wacky or creative ideas that can really > spark a new industry. > > "The relevance of this study to entrepreneurs," says > Ruef, "is that it > helps them identify how they can be creative and > innovative, which in my > mind is a goal for a lot of entrepreneurs, who often > seek creativity for > its own sake, independently of material gain. The > value of the study to > society is that it identifies patterns of > socialization that may contribute > to innovation and wealth creation." > > MARY PETRUSEWICZ > Research Paper: Strong Ties, Weak Ties, and Islands: > Structural and > Cultural Predictors of Organizational Innovation, > Martin Ruef, Industrial > and Corporate Change, 11: 427-49, 2002 > Additional > > ...borrowed from the Stanford School of Business > website at > http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/ > > -- John Tranter, Editor, Jacket magazine __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:15:31 +1200 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "Wystan Curnow (FOA ENG)" Subject: boston scene MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I am visiting Boston soon: between June 14 and 21. I would like to know what a poet is to do there. News of readings would be great. (I can do one myself should a last minute opportunity appear for a poet from the end of the earth). I am also interested in art exhibitions. Wystan ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:37:21 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: 28 GWB lies re WMD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed [provenance url below] Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. Dick Cheney Speech to VFW National Convention August 26, 2002 Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons. George W. Bush Speech to UN General Assembly September 12, 2002 If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world. Ari Fleischer Press Briefing December 2, 2002 We know for a fact that there are weapons there. Ari Fleischer Press Briefing January 9, 2003 Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. George W. Bush State of the Union Address January 28, 2003 We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more. Colin Powell Remarks to UN Security Council February 5, 2003 We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have. George W. Bush Radio Address February 8, 2003 So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? . . . I think our judgment has to be clearly not. Colin Powell Remarks to UN Security Council March 7, 2003 Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. George W. Bush Address to the Nation March 17, 2003 Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes. Ari Fleisher Press Briefing March 21, 2003 There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And . . . as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them. Gen. Tommy Franks Press Conference March 22, 2003 I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction. Defense Policy Board member Kenneth Adelman Washington Post, p. A27 March 23, 2003 One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites. Pentagon Spokeswoman Victoria Clark Press Briefing March 22, 2003 We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. Donald Rumsfeld ABC Interview March 30, 2003 Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find -- and there will be plenty. Neocon scholar Robert Kagan Washington Post op-ed April 9, 2003 I think you have always heard, and you continue to hear from officials, a measure of high confidence that, indeed, the weapons of mass destruction will be found. Ari Fleischer Press Briefing April 10, 2003 We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them. George W. Bush NBC Interview April 24, 2003 There are people who in large measure have information that we need . . . so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country. Donald Rumsfeld Press Briefing April 25, 2003 We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so. George W. Bush Remarks to Reporters May 3, 2003 I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now. Colin Powell Remarks to Reporters May 4, 2003 We never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country. Donald Rumsfeld Fox News Interview May 4, 2003 I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program. George W. Bush Remarks to Reporters May 6, 2003 U.S. officials never expected that "we were going to open garages and find" weapons of mass destruction. Condoleeza Rice Reuters Interview May 12, 2003 I just don't know whether it was all destroyed years ago -- I mean, there's no question that there were chemical weapons years ago -- whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they're still hidden. Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, Commander 101st Airborne Press Briefing May 13, 2003 Before the war, there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found. Gen. Michael Hagee, Commandant of the Marine Corps Interview with Reporters May 21, 2003 Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction. Gen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff NBC Today Show interview May 26, 2003 They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer. Donald Rumsfeld Remarks to Council on Foreign Relations May 27, 2003 For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. Paul Wolfowitz Vanity Fair interview May 28, 2003 Posted by billmon at May 29, 2003 03:20 AM | TrackBack http://billmon.org.v.sabren.com/archives/000172.html ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 20:57:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: NERVE LANTERN: ANNUAL AXON OF PERFORMANCE LITERATURE In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "Ellen Redbird" Date: Thu May 29, 2003 7:03:45 PM US/Pacific To: redbird@pyriformpress.com Subject: Nerve Lantern Issue #3 is out! Dear Friends of Nerve Lantern, Pass along the good news... Now Available! May 2003 Issue #3 of: NERVE LANTERN: ANNUAL AXON OF PERFORMANCE LITERATURE ***** 110 pages of exciting performance texts by: Stacy Elaine Dacheux, kari edwards, Jeff Harrison, Stephanie Heit, Kevin Killian, Matthew Klane, Naima Niambi Lowe, Christopher Mazura, Miranda F. Mellis, Sawako Nakayasu, Akilah Oliver, Jena Osman, Anna Joy Springer, and Anne Waldman Color cover art by Maureen Foley Hand-bound with waxed linen thread. Acid-free archival-safe paper. ***** $6 per copy. Orders and subscriptions can be emailed to: order@pyriformpress.com Include your name, mailing address, email address, issue, and number of copies in your order. One-year subscription to Issue #4 is $6. Two year subscription to Issues #4 and #5 is $10. Note: orders from outside the U.S., please add $1 per copy for postage costs. Make checks out to: Ellen R. Weiss. A mailing address for checks will be given upon receipt of your emailed order and address. Please allow as much as 5 weeks for Ellen Redbird to get your order to you. She will be gone most of June and won't be able to access her email a lot. However, she will do her best. (And who knows...she might find someone to help out while she's away.) ***** Nerve Lantern is currently accepting emailed submissions for Issue #4 (spring 2004). Deadline is December 2003. Looking for performance texts and texts about text-based performance. 10 pages maximum. Excerpts ok. Please visit the website for more information: http://www.pyriformpress.com/nl.html Responses to submissions may be delayed by about 5 weeks. ***** Pyriform Press is (unofficially but for all intents and purposes) not-for-profit. All money from orders and gifts go directly to helping Ellen Redbird pay the cost of materials. The time and effort put into Nerve Lantern year-round is a labor of love. Ellen pays the majority of costs out of her own pocket. If you would like to help sponsor Nerve Lantern with a small monetary gift to go toward materials, let Ellen know. It would be greatly appreciated and would help ensure that Nerve Lantern will continue in its present form. ***** Feel free to email me with any nice questions/suggestions: redbird@pyriformpress.com Many thanks to everyone for your contributions and support of Nerve Lantern! I hope you enjoy the new issue. Best wishes, Ellen Redbird Editor ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 18:01:33 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: JULIANA SPAHR Subject: brathwaite's "middle passages" on CYBERGRAPHIA MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Kamau Brathwaite's _Middle Passages_ is the new featured poem in CYBERGRAPHIA http://cg.bard.edu previous poems... Diane Glancy's "Fodder" Alice Notley's "White Phosphorus" Charles Bernstein's "Defence of Poetry" **** The "featured poem" aspect of Cybergraphia is a year long project that will present twelve contemporary poems, a brief bio and some discussion about the author, and a discussion of one or more possible way(s) to teach the poem. This, in its entirety, is designed to be a sort of mini-anthology introduction to the terrain of innovative contemporary poetry. The emphasis in Cybergraphia is not on craft or expertise or canon formation. These works, ones that might be called "avant garde" or "innovative," are featured because they encourage active, generative, and speculative thinking; because they stretch or reconfigure language in exciting ways. If a poem is still in print, there is a link to the publisher's website. Poems posted here are copyright protected. Do not download the poem from this site or photocopy the poem for classroom use. Instead show your support for contemporary writing by ordering the author's work for your class. The pedagogical discussion presented here is provisional and always being revised. It is presented as just one option, not the only one. The site draws heavily from the teaching strategies of the Institute for Writing and Thinking at Bard College. The Institute privileges teaching models that are experiential in the sense that practice and theory support each other and that encourage collaborative learning methods in which reading, writing, and thinking are active processes. See also, http://www.writingandthinking.org/ Please contribute to this discussion in the forum. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 00:38:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Philosophical Text: Theology and Colonialism MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Philosophical Text: Theology and Colonialism hanai ia ke akua mai ka lani nui a Wakea Ko hanai ia na akua o kona in company. 606, Ha'ula'ula wale ka lae o ke akua, Ruddy the forehead
171, O ke Akua ke komo, 'a'oe komo kanaka, The god enters, t Ho`onani i ka Makua Mau Praise to the Eternal Father Ke Keiki me ka Uhane n=C3=B4 The Makole= , Makole, akahi Hele i kai o Pikeha Heaha ke ai e aiai He lihilihi
pau Aloha'aina, love the land, aloha in Ke akua, love of God, aloha kek Synopsis: Makahiki was a season that the Hawaiian people set aside every year to
giv e ikumaumaua e ke akua, EKane, e Kaneikawaiola; Eia ka lu'au, ka lau'awa m Ho`o nani ka Makua mau Ke Keiki me ka Uhane no, Ke Akua mau Ho`o ma 39. E hano 'awa hua 40. E hano 'awa pauaka; 41. Halapa i ke akua ila'au wa live! Our God is an awesome God! "Aloha ke akua" m I Ka Makua Mau Ho'onani i ka Makua mau Ke keiki me ka 'Uhane no (Praise Godke akua o ka hee ... E ka hee o kai uli.". "Please li 39. E hano 'awa hua 40. E hano 'awa pauaka; 41. Halapa i ke akua i la'au w To be used on Sundays as appointed, but not on the succeeding weekdays. Of God
God Bless you as you plan your
specia ke ola'i, naue ke ola'i Naue ka honua a Kanepohaku Kamohoali'i ke < b>akua (=3DGod, goddess,supernatural (Praise God Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Philosophy Text: Gender and Universal Ontology MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Philosophy Text: Gender and Universal Ontology &gt; Don't worry woman, I'll make everything ... said there was a competing &gt;r male attacking one ... The female/more liked fami &gt; &gt; Don't worry woman, I'll make ... said there was a competing &gt; &gt;r male attacking one of ... The female/more Don't worry woman, I'll ... primal instinct that said there was a competing > > maler attacking one ... The female/more liked family > > &gt; Don't worry woman, I'll make everything ... said there was a competing &gt;r male attacking one ... The female/more liked fami Joseph Campbell says that her name was used in the word woman, meaning "woman". ... Myesyatsr (Slavic): Moon god; sometimes male, sometimes female Sometimes a woman rangatira fell in love with a ... 17 In 1829 Atkins also noted thatr female infants in ... into another group sometimes killed any male Guess I'm going to have to go back to work as a male stripper. ... responsibility!" Thirdly,r if I was to be in a position to choose female fashion, I ... Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: Re: self, world, language MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Perhaps Nick might have some thoughts here, but 'as-if' brings in a whole realm of 'psychoanalysis' and precognition (Winnicott and the Brits, for example) that the old standbys like the Freudians and Lacanians never let into the academic discourse arena? Even though she's not on the approved reading list here, Stewart does bring in Marx and Adorno in a way that is of interest to me as 'championing' poetry as social rather than antisocial in its basic impulse and I think relates to Pennebaker's and others findings on suicidal poets http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/faculty/pennebaker/reprints/Suicidal Poets.PDF which suggest that suicidality has less to do with poetry than it does with narcissism of those poets. ranting away today I am I guess [and using the first-person excessively] tom bell Write for the Heath of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:17:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Stephen Vincent Subject: Re: the selling of matthew barney In-Reply-To: <000d01c32632$f4e69bc0$605e3318@LINKAGE> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thanks Patrick, also for this. Love the Zappa song ref. Barney is not about to enter or win a "dry wall" masonry building competition! There is that wonderfully squeamish fecal and/or spermatic side to Barney's work - that viscerally connects to the usually shocked sight of the parent who discovers his young young child in the bath tub joyously playing boats or whatever with his poops. Then Barney does refine the surfaces, as you suggest, and loves to collide contrary material, leather to metal, etc. "Indulging the obscene Baroque" is the fancy crit phrase that the B "oeuvre" does bring to mind, well, at least my mind. Stephen Vincent on 5/29/03 11:23 AM, Patrick Herron at patrick@PROXIMATE.ORG wrote: > does anyone else get the sense that barney in his symbol-mindedness was > trying to create something that generates interpretation? i mean, i really > don't think the work was built around any prefabricated personal cosmology, > as the hype surrounding it would have you believe. i think it just looks > like it was to those not intimate with artistic inspiration and madness > of artistic pursuit. > > also i don't think m barney's work does anything to the *detriment* of > masonry. if anything he's marketed masonry to a new generation. he's made > it new. he's made it exotic, sexy. > > now don't get me wrong, I found the whole guggenheim thing fascinating. and > once the cycle hits dvd i'll add it to my collection. but i don't find it > beyond reproach or analysis. > > (Barney's work reminds me of something Zappa presaged parodically in his > Joe's Garage: Appliantology's L Ron Hoover who encourages Joe to stay in the > closet where it's "a lot of fun...fifty bucks please": > > Joe: > Oh oh oh mystical Advisor > What is my problem, > tell me > can you see? > > L. Ron Hoover: > Well, you have nothing to fear, my son! > You are a Latent Appliance Fetishist, > it appears to me! > > Joe: > That all seems very, very strange. > I never crazed a toaster or a color TV. > > L. Ron: > A Latent Appliance Fetishist is a person who refuses to admit to his or > herself > that sexual gratification can only be achieved through the use of > MACHINES... > Get the picture? > > Joe: > Are you telling me > I should come out > of the closet now > Mr. Ron? > > L. Ron Hoover: > No, my son! > You must go into THE CLOSET > And you will have > a lot of fun! > That's where they all live, > So if you want an appliance to love you > you'll have to go in there 'n' get you one > > Joe: > Well...that seems simple enough.... > > L. Ron: > Yes, but if you want a really GOOD one, > you'll have to learn a foreign language... > > Joe: > German, for instance? > > L. Ron: > That's right...a lot of really cute ones come from over there! > (fifty bucks, please). > ) > > It only makes sense to rent out the entire Guggenheim for such a purpose as > marketing masonry to the new generation. ok not "rent" to be precise, but > money's involved, and lots of it, in barney's work. which, by the way, the > money spent is fine with me. but it is indicative. there's an allure to it > all with its opulent surfaces and polyvalently fetishistic sexual > opportunities. please don't anyone be so stupid as to equate what i'm > saying with the suggestion that barney's motive was to market masonry. > that's a bit reductionist. i am saying it does serve that purpose. > > i think many web artists and epoets could benefit from barney's apparent > sense of craft: the production value (the polish, the level of detail) of > barney's work is perhaps its most valuable and in a deeper sense most > underwhelming asset. that is to say, for visual art, especially animated > visual art, rich surfaces are important, essential even, but they are not > an end but instead a means. barney certainly doesn't try to pass off > monstrously ugly and uncrafted garbage as art. his color palettes work. > his compositions work. none of it looks slapdash. the work appears as if > it is the produce of some suffocating amount of self-criticism. i imagine > barney's garbage pail for artistic rejects to be enormous. to his credit. > as art for art's sake, barney's work succeeds. what might be most > fascinating is how he actually put it all together, how he managed the work, > how he made it, etc. the shot of the jcrew model coming out of the elevator > perhaps embodies the numerous conflicts in barney's works. i do consider > conflict to be an asset, however. with all the apparent layers, I wanted > more layers. > > barney is also obviously a master of juxtaposition, and the popularity of > the cremaster cycle marks the changing of an era in popular perception and > valuation of visual art. the common man or woman will become less and less > likely to poster their homes with the works of degas or vangogh and more > likely poster their homes instead with the works of duchamp, ernst, and > magritte. juxtaposition sells. > > > Patrick ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 23:27:14 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jim Andrews Subject: Re: dispersion In-Reply-To: <200305300405.h4U451A08568@ida.host4u.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:14:35 -0400 > From: Alan Sondheim > Subject: Re: dispersion > > Hi Jim - This is really of great interest to me. There have been, in print > of course, highly edited list readers - for example the ReadMe that came > out of Nettime. But it would be fantastic to have material available and > searchable on a cdrom. I know from Google Hacks that Google is highly > configurable; another possibility would be using a form of grep to search > across files and indexes. > > I tend to go for magazine cdroms - the Linux Journal has an excellent one. of course, such 'list reader' could be written as a 'plugin' to Outlook Express (in Visual Basic) and so on, so that it would just plug in to the email client many people use, and would thereby come equipped as a real email client. but that has its problems, not least of which is repackaging such a commercial product on CD. the thing i'm thinking of would essentially be for reading lists that were dead. this has some utility. but kind of depressing. one's email client is quite a sophisticated application which has thousands of person-hours of development time in it. but there are many email clients across many platforms. i know you use Pine. I use Outlook. > As far as peripherality is concerned, I think at least for myself, my work > is central; I wouldn't be able to proceed without believing that. I think > that is also true for a lot of writers. But I do feel as if technology and > technological dispersion is going to swamp what passes for 'art' and for > 'artworks,' no matter how advanced; let's slow down a bit, if we may, please, Alan. What is "technological dispersion", or what are some of the primary factors in it? And in what sense would they then "swamp what passes for 'art'"? I keep thinking of the 30 million in > Japan doing SMS for example, What is SMS? > the material in Rheingold's Smart Mobs, I have read you mention this several times recently. I take it this is a good book? > and > the fact that wireless is, I believe, exponentially outpacing the growth > of the Net itself. What are some of the key growths in wireless that are independent of the Net? > And standard email is beginning swamped as well, by > spam - just as Usenet was/is - I was off for a day, and had 666 messages > when I returned. Without constant culling, or changing my address, my > account will crash at this point. So is the fate of Usenet an example of a more general type of fate posited by Rheingold for public network technologies? Usenet is still used, and in some ways is superior to email lists ('get next 100 messages', for example, is something you can do with a Usenet client), but it certainly isn't as widely used as it used to be. i suppose that the spamming of the Usenet lists was a big factor here. Also, the delivery mechanism is initiated when you connect to the group, rather than the automatic delivery that happens with email lists. And the Usenet groups are carried (or not) like 'channels' by one's Internet Service Provider whereas there is no such involvement of the ISP in the email lists to which one subscribes. > People see this list primarily, I believe, as a critical exchange-about - > the emphasis being on the 'about' that points elsewhere, vectors out of > the region, even the ontology of being online. For some of us, and I think > you might feel this way to some extent, the list, and all lists, are > ongoing works/productions in themselves - certainly Wryting and Nettime > come across that way - as do Empyre (where I follow your critical writing > of course), Syndicate, etc. Poetics seems almost bipolar in content - in > the sense that some people see it as a distributive electronic mode, and > others as referent ultimately to talk/seminar/print... Yes, I have enjoyed participating in various email lists as dialogical evolutions in poetics of digital art. As ongoing works/productions in themselves (hence my interest in possibly making a 'list reader'). It seems that when we look at the growth of particular email lists, we see them proceeding with some focus and concentration at first and then they blur into a kind of 'dispersion' through sheer diversity of the interests of those on the list. Into a wide range of announcements (distribution)...people begin to talk at one another rather than with one another. To the point where it loses its function as a publication and becomes more like a huge bulletin board. > Sorry for the meandering. I do think that in the long run, distribution > and dispersion will becoming increasingly of import - and in a very > un-McLuhanesque way. Un-McLuhanesque in what way? > For myself, I've been thinking of the universe itself > less in terms of state/process, and more as dispersion/filtering, and am > trying to write to that effect. the universe itself. hmm. ja ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 02:27:16 -0400 Reply-To: dbuuck@mindspring.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "dbuuck@mindspring.com" Subject: TRIPWIRE 7 call for submissions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The deadline for Tripwire 7 ("Global/Local") has been extended to July=20 1=2E =20 TRIPWIRE 7: GLOBAL/LOCAL (edited by Yedda Morrison & David=20 Buuck) Whose global? Which locals? Transnational/translational=2E Cultural=20 politics of globalization=2E Poetics of place/site-specific writing/locali= ty=2E=20 Routes & roots=2E Exile & diaspora=2E Borders, fronteirs, maps & crossings= =2E Please mail to the address below or email with submissions &/or=20 inquiries=2E Tripwire publishes essays, reviews, art, interviews,=20 translations, bulletins and "sightings/citings", responses to previous=20 issues, and hybrid poetics works=2E We do NOT publish unsolicited=20 poetry=2E Tripwire c/o Morrison & Buuck PO Box 420936 SF CA 94142 dbuuck@mindspring=2Ecom www=2Edurationpress=2Ecom/tripwire -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 04:33:42 -0400 Reply-To: poetry@hypobololemaioi.com Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Magee Subject: Neither Here Nor There MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Outline for the 27 May British Council Lecture [see http://hypobololemaioi.com/hyoeides/harm.html for a view of the Poetic through WB's 1930s Paris-Berlin-Moscow filter] I. Description of the method of the Arcades Project A. Book reconstructed from manuscript (1950 Adorno reference) B. Montage (simultaneity of perception; planes & dimensions of reference; non-linear narrative; series & assemblages: "Film: unfolding of all the forms of perception, the tempos and rhythms, which lie preformed in today's machines" [K3,3]. C. Quotation (multiple and contradictory points of view - not citations of authorities) D. Aphorism & Fragment (the notation, not the finished thought E. Against Academicism (which separates Past from Present & makes a museum out of art / thought / culture) II. What were the arcades themselves? The first shopping centers, architectures of display ("The arcades are a center of commerce in luxury items" - Paris, the Capital of the 19th C.) A. The arcades as mid-19th century architectures not simply a place where you would go to buy what you needed, but an architecture of display where a society and its economy exhibited to the masses of people in the urban centers the luxury goods and the dream life the display of these goods inspired. The arcades as Dream Factories. The subjectivity of the consumer begins to be constructed at this time on a mass scale. How? B. The advent of the mechanical image (photography) and the pressure of the development of the image on language. Visual communications challenge traditional conceptions of the relationship between writing and thought. "The primary interest of allegory is not linguistic but optical. 'Images --my great, my primitive passion' (Baudelaire [J59,u]. "Images in the collective consciousness in which the new is permeated with the old." "For the painted sky of summer that looks down from the arcades in the reading room of the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris" (N1,50. III. The arcades of mid-19th century Paris & Berlin metamorphose (morph) into the Internet at the end of the millenium, only 150 years later. Parallels: Imagination & Virtuality, New Velocities: A. The 'convolutes': Fashion; Iron Construction; Exhibitions/Advertising; Baudelaire; Dream City & Dream House; The Flaneur; Panorama; Modes of Lighting; Photography; Reproduction Technology B. [B2,1]: "A kindred problem arose with the advent of new velocities, which gave life an altered rhythm.... For example, in posters. 'These images of a day or an hour... symbolize to a higher degree the sudden, shock-filled, multiform life that carries us away.' Maurice Talmeyr, La Cite du sang ( Paris, 1901). C. "Arcades are houses or passages having no outside --like the dream." [L1a,1]. D. Arcades. Iron & Electronic architectures: "it remained only to connect these isolated sections to one another in order to constitute a network ... embracing the whole city" [and] "Remarkable propensity for structures that convey and connect --as, of course, the arcades do." [E2a,4]. E. Fashion. "The loop-the-loop came on the scene, and Parisians seized on this entertainment with a frenzy." "And it is not surprising that a chronicler adds apocalyptic prophecies to this connection and foretells a time when people will have been blinded by the effects of too much electric light and maddened by the tempo of news reporting. --Paris en songe, 1863. F. Iron & Glass construction. "Iron is, for us, only artificially compressed durability and tenacity" (1907). Volatility of building materials. The Eiffel Tower. G. Exhibitions/Advertising. "Falser colors are possible in the arcades." (Digitalization). "'Another new word: la reclame (advertisement). Will it make a fortune?' Nadar, Quand j'etais photographe, Paris 1900)." [G2a,10]. H. Baudelaire. Allegory. Word & Image. The Ragpicker. "Perhaps only Leopardi, Edgar Poe, and Dostoevsky experienced such a dearth of happiness, such a power of desolation. Round about him, this century, which in other respects seems so flourishing, takes on the terrible aspect of a desert." Edmond Jaloux, 1921. 1. Isolation, estrangement, increasing artificiality of existence. "The poet has made his dwelling in space itself, one could say --or in the abyss." [J69a,5]. 2. Poetry and the literary market: feuilleton. 3. "Realism--a repulsive insult flung in the face of every analytic writer" (CB) IV. AURA: 'The threat to aura posed by the experience of shock' DEFINITION OF THE AURA AS THE AURA OF DISTANCE OPENED UP WITH THE LOOK THAT AWAKENS IN AN OBJECT PERCEIVED [J47 a,1] THE GAZE IN WHICH THE MAGIC OF DISTANCE IS EXTINGUISHED [J47a,1] FOR THE DECLINE OF THE AURA, ONE THING WITHIN THE REALM OF MASS PRODUCTION IS OF OVERRIDING IMPORTANCE: THE MASSIVE REPRODUCTION OF THE IMAGE [J60a,4]. A. Pedagogic side of this undertaking: 'To educate the image-making medium within us, raising it to a stereoscopic and dimensional seeing into the depths of historical shadows." [N1,8]. B. At issue, in other words, is the attempt to grasp an economic process as perceptible Ur-phenomenon, from out of which proceed all manifestations of life in the arcades [N1a,6]. C. "The history that showed things 'as they really were' was the strongest narcotic of the [19th] century." [N3,4] 1. "The dreaming collective knows no history. Events pass before it as always identical and always new." [S2,1] 2. "In fantastic montage--nerve and electrical wire not infrequently meet (and that the vegetal nervous system in particular operates, as a limiting form, to mediate between the world of organism and the world of technology ... this telegraphic image of exchange" [S9,3] 3. The Glare of the Screen: Poe in the Philosophy of Furniture. "Glare is a leading error in the philosophy of American household decoration.... We are violently enamored of gas and of glass. The former is totally inadmissible within doors. Its harsh and unsteady light offends. No one having both brains and eyes will use it." (Poe, quoted by Baudelaire). 4. Photography & Panorama. "What makes the first photographs so incomparable is perhaps this: that they present the earliest image of the encounter of machine and man." [y4a,2]. The snapshot - its technological function in the mechanism and its sterilizing function in the experience. V. Conclusion: Virtuality, Simulation, Instant communication, Masks & Masquerading, Chance & Fictitious encounters, Communications networks, Multimedia-sound & moving image, digital editing, smooth surfaces & the appearance of the appearance (mirroring) - the prototypes of these contemporary concepts among a host of others can be traced back to the mid-19th cent. and the arcades - though by saying Benjamin looked forward by working backwards is not to claim for the Arcades Project the status of a prophetic text, nor even canonical text: what can be learned from these pages is that the present misrecognizes itself - whether the present then or the present now - a term like globalism for example, might be the very opposite of the shocks and ruptures being pushed forward from the past ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:28:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: "Martin Spinelli" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: LINEbreak in MP3 at the EPC Comments: cc: Chalres Bernstein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit !! New at the EPC !! LINEbreak in MP3 The LINEbreak radio series produced by Martin Spinelli and Charles Bernstein, and hosted by Charles Bernstein, is now available in MP3 format at the Electronic Poetry Center: http://epc.buffalo.edu/linebreak The series, which has been aired on more than twenty stations since 1997, consists of half-hour programs of conversation and performance with some of the most innovative poets, performers and novelists at work today: Bruce Andrews Paul Auster Robert Creeley (two programs) Ray Federman Ben Friedlander Madeline Gins Loss Pequeño Glazier Barbara Guest Carla Harryman Lyn Hejinian Susan Howe (two programs) Karen Mac Cormack Jackson Mac Low Steve McCaffery (two programs) Lance & Andrea Olsen Jena Osman Ted Pearson Jerome Rothenberg (extended program) Leslie Scalapino Kenneth Sherwood Ron Silliman Peter Straub (two programs) Luci Tapahonso Dennis Tedlock Fiona Templeton Cecilia Vicuña Hannah Weiner Ben Yarmolinsky Links to the MP3 programs have been added at the top of each author's LINEbreak program page. All the links have been debugged but please let us know if you have any problems. Martin Spinelli EPC Audio Editor ________________________________ Martin Spinelli msradio@banet.net http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/spinelli ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:29:52 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: poetics@buffalo.edu Comments: Originally-From: "Martin Spinelli" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Radio Radio at the EPC Comments: cc: Chalres Bernstein MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !! Radio Radio at the EPC The new series Radio Radio, produced and presented by Martin Spinelli, is now available in MP3 format courtesy of Ubuweb and the EPC: click the "Radio Radio" link on the EPC's main Sound page (http://epc.buffalo.edu/sound) or go directly to http://www.ubu.com/radio (These lovely pages were assembled by Kenneth Goldsmith of Ubuweb.) The series consists of sixteen forty-five-minute programs which feature innovative sound poets, radio producers and audio artists in conversation and performance: Gregory Whitehead Stephen Erickson Jennifer & Kevin McCoy cris cheek Charles Bernstein John Oswald Bob Cobbing Christof Migone Michael Basinski Sianed Jones Piers Plowright Paul D. Miller (a.k.a DJ Spooky) Lawrence Upton Bufffluxus Jane Draycott & Elizabeth James It also contains creative "voice bumpers" which combine interview fragments from radio critics and practitioners Allen Weiss, Kersten Glandien, Lauren Goodlad, Mark Percival, Himan Brown, Tim Crook, Matthew Finch, Kenneth Goldsmith, David Chesworth, Sonia Leber, Simon Elmes and Jo Tacchi; plus original music by George Brunner. In fidelity, Martin Spinelli EPC Audio Editor ________________________________ Martin Spinelli msradio@banet.net http://epc.buffalo.edu/authors/spinelli ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:16:56 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Larry Sawyer & Lina ramona Subject: Fw: save "Reading Rainbow" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm forwarding this for my friend Jim. Here's a CNN article that explains it as well. http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/05/29/reading.rainbow.ap/ Subject: save "Reading Rainbow" > Today I read that the PBS children's series "Reading > Rainbow" is in danger of going off the air. This show > has been on the air for almost 20 years and has been > vital in promoting child literacy. I remember > watching it as a child as I'm sure many of you do, or > your children do or they watch it now. PBS is now in > such financial trouble they are going to have to > cancel the show in July unless someone saves it. > > I got to thinking about how to save an important, > educational children's show such as this. I thought > about the normal tactics, such as forwarding this > email to everyone we can, writing our local papers and > urging people to donate whatever they can to PBS (I > know times are rough for many, but every penny > counts). And then, if anyone cares enough they can > write to their congressman. But then I got to > thinking that First Lady Laura Bush has taken on child > literacy as her "thing", much like Nancy Reagan's > "Just Say No" campaign in the 1980's. Well Mrs. Bush > may not know about the impending demise of "Reading > Rainbow" (being First Lady keeps you busy I imagine). > Maybe if she did, she'd be just as interested as > myself and many others to save such a positive, > intelligent show that actually encourages children to > read. > > So maybe if everyone who was interested could tell as > many other interested friends to write to: > > First Lady Laura Bush > The White House > 1600 Pensylvania Ave > Washington DC, 20500 > > Or email. Get the word out to whoever you think might > care. This isn't anything political. It's something > small, that I think can be changed if enough people > knew about it. There are a lot of bigger issues out > there, but I think Child Literacy is one that everyone > can get behind regardless of age, race, religion, > sexuality, or politics. I don't know all the facts. > Go to the PBS wesite to learn the exact numbers. I > just read it in the Chicago Sun-Times today. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:26:58 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer Comments: To: Bob Grumman In-Reply-To: <20030530004806.5398.qmail@web14703.mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Bob, For my money Alice Quinn is the worst poetry editor on the planet -- she chooses absolutely atrocious poems, and the situation is only made worse by the fact that she'll occasionally let a big name poet like Ashbery slide through (which I don't hold against Ashbery incidentally - why not have the NYer's readers read him instead of some crappy poem by Pinsky et al, whatever the bad editorial intentions). I myself am not so smug about the NYer as a whole. I think its a halfway decent mag with many intelligent readers -- some of their writers (Seymour Hirsch, Schjeldahl, Anthony Lane, Jon Lee Anderson come to mind) are pretty damn good. So why not try to let the readership know that they shouldn't take Malcolm's word on Stein? Language is a site of social contestation. I'm not content to preach to my little choir of good poetry lovers. I suppose my experience teaching Stein plays into this -- students who have never been exposed to anything like Stein sometimes end up loving her and when this happens they walk away with a very different relationship to their own language. Much more so than Malcolm's blunt critique of Stein's supposed fascist sympathies, I was put off by her disdain for the writing -- which she reads as a simple attention-grab by the simple-minded overconfident baby in the bourgeois family. Why should those NYer readers unfamiliar with Stein not be informed that their getting a stupid, narrow-minded portrait here? Stein herself treated poetry as action and my writing to the NYer was done in that spirit. -m. Quoting Bob Grumman : > But, Mike, why on earth should anyone care what the > New Yorker has to say about poetry? When was the last > time it published any poetry or criticism on any > poetry by a living author that uses techniques not in > wide use by 1978 at the very latest? > > --Bob G. > > --- mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > > Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I > > just sent to the New Yorker > > regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude > > Stein. The "outing" of > > Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all > > historical and personal > > nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the > > discussion of Stein's writing > > is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more > > politic in the letter itself but > > that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as > > I was reading this (I > > could barely get through the damn thing) I'd > > encourage you to send your own > > letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people > > send they'll have to print > > at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's > > incomprehensible tenure as > > Poetry Editor is starting to make more sense! -m. > > > > **************** > > Dear Editor, > > > > Whatever useful biographical information is > > contained in Janet Malcolm’s > > "Gertrude Stein’s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her > > bizarrely vindictive tone > > and transparent dislike for Stein’s writing. > > Malcolm describes Stein as simply > > "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a > > lifetime, relying on a > > classic misogynist stereotype regarding women > > writers (Hawthorne chose the word > > "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph > > Ellison considered her work > > brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary > > American poets including Susan > > Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette > > Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps > > all who appreciate Stein’s writing under the heading > > "new Stein critics," the > > better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New > > Yorker’s readers deserve > > better than the facile innuendo and > > pop-psychologizing that mark this article’s > > every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to > > impose a narrative on the > > stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial > > biographer’s trait." Well, Malcolm > > certainly has this trait in spades. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Michael Magee > > Rhode Island School of Design > > Providence, RI > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > http://calendar.yahoo.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:18:15 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mairead Byrne Subject: Re: boston scene Comments: To: w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Dear Wystan, One thing a poet can do is meet other poets. I'm already hoping to meet = Trevor Joyce and Ann Fisher-Wirth in Boston or Providence in June. Would = you like to meet too? I live in Providence, which is well worth a visit. = It's an hour by bus or train from Boston. I could take you to the = terrific John Hay collection of 20th century poetry at Brown University. = Another great thing to do, if you can, is go to Provincetown: that's 2-3 = hrs by Bonanza Bus from Boston. The great poet Alan Dugan lives nearby in = Truro and there is usually some action around the Fine Arts Work Center. = But the Boston dudes will kill me for touting Providence and Provincetown = (I'm glad there aren't any more towns around here beginning with "Prov," = like "Provisionaltown" or "Probablytown"..)as Boston itself is bursting = with poets and poetry and bookstores and stuff. Mairead Mair=E9ad Byrne Assistant Professor of English Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI 02903 www.wildhoneypress.com >>> w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ 05/29/03 22:23 PM >>> I am visiting Boston soon: between June 14 and 21. I would like to know what a poet is to do there. News of readings would be great. (I can do = one myself should a last minute opportunity appear for a poet from the end of the earth). I am also interested in art exhibitions. Wystan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:58:38 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Subject: "My Angie Dickinson" hits 50 Comments: To: new-poetry@wiz.cath.vt.edu In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Poems 1-50 of my ongoing serial "My Angie Dickinson" are now up at: http://myangiedickinson.blogspot.com Go have a looksee! Here's a recent one: #49 Divorce is not Granted –– by the Pope –– Married to Henry VIII –– A trip to Bermuda is over in weeks So the Wife can become –– serious –– A teenager "dates" –– the daughter –– Tries to "get through" eight songs The kids on Astro Orbiter Were Known as "affinity" groups –– In the future a cutting-edge android In the form of a boy-sheath –– The full-length matching sequined skirt The Puritan strain rides underneath -m. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:35:11 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: boston scene In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There used to be, and I hope still is, a ferry from Boston to=20 Provincetown--it takes a little longer, but hey, it's an ocean voyage,=20 complete with whale sightings. Mark At 10:18 AM 5/30/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Wystan, >One thing a poet can do is meet other poets. I'm already hoping to meet=20 >Trevor Joyce and Ann Fisher-Wirth in Boston or Providence in June. Would= =20 >you like to meet too? I live in Providence, which is well worth a=20 >visit. It's an hour by bus or train from Boston. I could take you to the= =20 >terrific John Hay collection of 20th century poetry at Brown=20 >University. Another great thing to do, if you can, is go to Provincetown:= =20 >that's 2-3 hrs by Bonanza Bus from Boston. The great poet Alan Dugan=20 >lives nearby in Truro and there is usually some action around the Fine=20 >Arts Work Center. But the Boston dudes will kill me for touting=20 >Providence and Provincetown (I'm glad there aren't any more towns around=20 >here beginning with "Prov," like "Provisionaltown" or "Probablytown"..)as= =20 >Boston itself is bursting with poets and poetry and bookstores and stuff. >Mairead > >Mair=E9ad Byrne >Assistant Professor of English >Rhode Island School of Design >Providence, RI 02903 >www.wildhoneypress.com > > >>> w.curnow@AUCKLAND.AC.NZ 05/29/03 22:23 PM >>> > I am visiting Boston soon: between June 14 and 21. I would like to know >what a poet is to do there. News of readings would be great. (I can do= one >myself should a last minute opportunity appear for a poet from the end of >the earth). I am also interested in art exhibitions. > Wystan ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:51:07 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: "subrosa@speakeasy.org" From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Seattle SubText reading * hug-o-house MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable it seems when my address changed from .org to .net the list didnt take me= . can this be altered? id like to be able to inform the list what's happenn= ing in the NorthWest - as in the below item. i assume/hope this wont be a= hassle, but if it is i appreciate your efforts greatly. thank you for yo= ur assistance Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with reading= s by Allison Cobb, Jen Coleman, and Sarah Mangold at the Richard Hugo House on= Wednesday, June 4, 2003. Suggested donations for admission are $5 at the door on the evening of th= e performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Allison Cobb is author The LIttle Box Book (Situation), The J Poems (Baby= Self),Polar Bear and Desert Fox (BabySelf) and One-foot A History Play (B= abySelf). Her full-length collection Born Two is forthcoming this from Ch= ax Press. She lives in Brooklyn, NY. Jen Coleman is a poet in NYC and co-editor of the poetry journal POMPOM. = She's also co-author of the chapbook Communal Bebop Canto with CE Putnam and Al= lison Cobb, and author of the chapbook Propinquity. You can see her work online= at http://www.theeastvillage.com/v12.htm Raised in Oklahoma, Sarah Mangold received an MFA from San Francisco Stat= e University. She is the author of Household Mechanics, selected by C.D. Wr= ight for the 2001 New Issues Poetry Prize. She is also author of a chapbook, = Blood Substitutes (Potes & Poets, 1998), and the editor of the Seattle-based ma= gazine Bird Dog. The future Subtext 2003 schedule is: July 2 - Subtext 9th Anniversary Group Reading August 6 - Joseph Donahue (Seattle and elsewhere) & TBA Sept 3 - David Perry (Brooklyn) & C. E. Putnam For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/subtext. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:11:37 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: Seattle SubText reading * hug-o-house MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Moi aussi. I've tried everything to inform the List of a new email address. How to do this corrrectly? Gloria Frym ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:56:51 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Re: FW: Theaetetus' Macaroni (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -----Original Message----- From: Poetics List Administration [mailto:poetics@acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 2:41 PM To: patrick@proximate.org; shoemak@FAS.HARVARD.EDU Subject: Re: FW: Theaetetus' Macaroni > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrick Herron [mailto:patrick@proximate.org] > Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 7:57 PM > To: UBPO > Subject: Theaetetus' Macaroni > > > Thanks for the thoughtful reply Steven. > > I want to quickly say that "To be sure, observer and world are looped in > the most complex fashion" seems not so sure at all. In fact the ULTIMATE > nature of the relationship or existence of the relationship between > observer and world is as intractable as intractability itself. This > subject is nothing but a series of speculations without a simgle drop of > falsifiability. > > We frequently hear the following positions: > > observer and reality are distinct > observer and reality are inseparable but language provides a distinction > there is no reality external to the observer (B Berkeley, Heraclitus) > there are no observers or observations only one reality > > and so on. > > But all of them have this in common: none of them can be examined in terms > of knowledge. Hell, they can't be understood very well at all when put in > the following context: they are, undoubtedly, all utterances, statements, > etc. That's about all we know. Their truth values, their certainties, > etc., simply cannot be accessed. More precisely, I can't even be sure if > their truth values can be accessed, but no one would ever know. Knowing > whether or not there is a reality external to me is on par with knowing > there is life after death. It's something that is entirely unknowable. > It makes for charlatanism, cults, protection from charges of fraud, and > wonderful tax breaks, but that's about it. > > I keep going back to Borges' infinite library of Babel where people comb > through the infinite stacks looking for the ultimate book of truth. > Borges' point is both simple and profound: assuming one of these people > in the infinite library found the ultimate book of truth, how would that > person KNOW he or she found the book of truth? What about the next book, > with one changed letter? Or the one on the next shelf, with one changed > word? Or the book down the hall, with one different sentence? Or the > book that is exactly the same but half of the statements are negated? > > Borges realized what I think Spicer realized, that the ambiguity of the > statement that expresses the intractability also expresses the metatruth > of the situation and illustrates the impossibility of having any basis for > being so sure. For Spicer, I think his intractable problem surrounded the > notion of self in particular. > > And, me too Steven. I also like to write about this sort of thing. > There's quite a parallel between knowing the relationship between > observer and reality and knowing what happens after death: the fantasy of > knowing the unknowable pitted against the knowledge of the limits of the > knowable. > > So now I've said all of that, I have to retreat a little and say I do like > very much this concept of observer and reality looped together. My own > solution has been to try, mainly through poems, of trying to take these > apparently divergent and contradictory metaphysical positions and adhere > to them at the same time. I call this "the blessed contradiction." > Because it is anything but blessed. It's altogether maddening and > unfathomable but at once it feels full of awe and melancholy. > > I mean, I just cannot escape the grip of Spicer's first poem from his > "Language" > > This ocean, humiliating in its disguises > Tougher than anything. > No one listens to poetry. The ocean > Does not mean to be listened to. A drop > Or crash of water. It means > Nothing. > It > Is bread and water > Pepper and salt. The death > That young men hope for. Aimlessly > It pounds the shore. White and aimless signals. no > one listens to poetry. > > Or this from the "graphemics" section, number 6: > > > You flicker. > If I move my finger through a > candleflame, I know that there > is nothing there. But if I hold my > finger there a few minutes longer, > It blisters. > This is an act of will and the flame is > is not really there for the candle, I > Am writing my own will. > Or does the flame cast shadows? > At Hiroshima, I hear, the shadows > of the victims were as is photographed > into concrete building blocks. > Or does it flicker? Or are we both > candles and fingers? > Or do they both point us to the > grapheme on the concrete wall-- > The space between it > Where the shadow and the flame are one? > > > > Importantly, the space between the grapheme and the wall itself is > nothing, zip. So where the shadow and flame are one is, appropriately > nowhere. But apparently a nowhere certainly worth writing about.... > > > Thanks for the note. > > Patrick > > > Patrick Herron > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 18:20:08 -0400 > Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group > Sender: UB Poetics discussion group > From: Steven Shoemaker > Subject: gravity's elbow (language and world) > In-Reply-To: <179.1ac077c6.2bffe7a5@aol.com> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > > Every now and then this "language and world" thread comes around and I > always find myself tempted to try to say something about it (I haven't > seen everything that's been said this time around, but I'm thinking > particularly of the recent provocative exchange under the title "Astrology > and Science"). It seems to me that the fact that we shape our world > through language is indisputable, but it also seems to me that the matter > (have to get this pun out of my system at some point) becomes trickier > when we start trying to think about whether anything external to us exists > at all. Quantum physics often pops up, as it has here, as a reminder that > the presence of the observer fundamentally influences, or even > constitutes, whatever we might want to call "reality." And, of course, > there's also the question of perception itself, and the way our sensory > apparatus constructs our experience. Linguistics, physics, biology-work > in all these disciplines (leaving out others, like philosophy) confronts > us with the constructed, the partial, the relative. So why do I still > find myself resisting the strongest formulations of what I'll call by way > of shorthand the "languaged" view of reality? I guess some part of me > still gets a charge out of Berkeley kicking that stone and saying to the > radical skeptic "I refute thee thus." Of course the stone could be an > illusion: B. could be floating in a pod in the matrix dreaming both > stones and kicks. Nevertheless his body would be there, and if the AI's > wanted to keep him alive it would have to make concessions to that body's > biology, making sure it was fed (if only by that black soup simmered from > bodies of dead humans), and so on. If be were dreaming an illusion, it > still wouldn't be an illusion with no rules, coming out of nowhere (how > did he come to dream about stones, not to mention legs and feet in the > first place?) We are embodied, our intelligence is embodied, our brains > are embodied, and yes, this embodiment means that we construct the world > in a particular way. But it also means that the world constructs us. > That our bodies (and so our intelligence, our language) have evolved under > particular conditions and constraints not of our making. What are these > "conditions and constraints" if not external reality? > > Immediately, I want to qualify my position by pointing out that the > scenario I've just described, or perhaps it's better to say my description > of it, is flawed in its reliance on a too crude opposition between "self" > and "external reality," "us" and "out there." To be sure, observer and > world are looped in the most complex fashion. But the exaggeration is > necessary, perhaps, to remind us that we are "formed" by the world even as > we also "form" it. Hayles's book on the posthuman, which I was reading > not too long ago, gives an interesting account of the role the frog brain > played in Maturana and Varela's formulation of autopoietic theory, which > Hayles describes as an "epistemological revolution" precisely because of > the crucial role it gives to the "observer." After studying froggie > perception in detail, and modeling the circuitry of the frog visual > system, M and V were able to see exactly how the frog brain constructed > its world, that frog's were constructed to see small, fast-moving objects > (like flies-for-dinner) but not large slow-moving objects (like Chilean > biologists). And, of course, we humans perform the same sort of > perceptual and cognitive tricks when "look" and "listen" and "feel" and > "smell" and "think." But we wouldn't do any of it the same way if we > started with different givens, if we (but who would "we" be?) had managed > somehow to evolve on Mars, say, rather than on Earth. Around the time of > that Social Text hoax scandal with the physicist who wrote the essay full > of made-up pomo science, I remember scientists cracking jokes about pomo > theorists falling out of windows and not be able to talk their way out of > gravity, and I thought the scientists had a pretty good point (even as I > also think that science is a culturally and historically and economically > constructed enterprise, and that the ideal of "objectivity" is often just > a crock). > > So there's gravity, as an example of those conditions and constraints I > mentioned before, and it happens to be a whole lot more "pressing" on > Earth than on Mars, and our bodies, including eyes, ears, hands, lips, > tongues, larynxes, brains, have evolved accordingly. Interesting, too, to > think about how morphology, the shape of things, inflects any force or law > we can imagine, including gravity itself, so that gravity on Earth is far > from constant, despite the "mean" figure one can pluck from a chart (32 > feet per second per second), depending on such factors as: the centrifugal > force due to the Earth's rotation; elevation on the earth's surface; tidal > variations (which depend on the movements of sun and moon, and which > therefore introduce time into the equation); and underground densities. > So, yes, the cosmos itself is embodied; it exists whether or not I think > it exists (though who knows, it may exist in a different way depending on > what I decide!). And when we posit a world made entirely of and by > language we may be performing something like the kind of operation we > carry out when we imagine ideal mathematical worlds. So the > "constructivist" approach that seems to start out from such historicist, > relativist premises can end up becoming a kind of idealism? Hmmm, > interesting, and that seems to be where I'm ending up for now, since it's > time to go feed the baby (and I'm pretty sure he does exist, with his > pre-languaged needs and desires, like hunger). > > For me at least, all this has implications of poetry, but I've run out of > steam, so I won't try to go into them here. I have worked intermittently > on a series of poems under the title IN/SIDE/OUT, a title intended to > suggest something about the complexities of internal/external relations. > > Steve > > ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:58:58 -0400 Reply-To: info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org, info@whiteboxny.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: Resent-From: Poetics List Administration Comments: Originally-From: WHITE BOX From: Poetics List Administration Organization: WHITE BOX Subject: Puzzle Parade at White Box Opens Thursday, May 29 6-8 pm. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; FORMAT=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit PUZZLE PARADE May 29 - June 28, 2003 Opening reception: May 29th, 2003 6 - 8 pm Curated by Maria Gadegaard Malene Bach Milena Bonifacini Nils Erik Gjerdevik Malene Landgreen Bodil Nielsen Puzzle Parade is an oversized, immense site-specific painting generated by a collective of five New Formalist Danish painters. Structured as a purely aesthetic game of odds and chance, and informed by the premises of Color Field painting filtered through Northern Light sensibilities, this project offers a broad study that explores the possibilities, range and limits of painting by using as its playing field White Box's challenging architectural exhibition space. Over the course of five days - from May 25 to May 29 - and open to daily public scrutiny, the selected artists will complete a puzzle. In this Puzzle Parade, each player works within a particular block of space while collectively sharing the larger terrain. According to the agreed game rules, they will tip off, tackle, guard, box out and switch their counter pictorial markings in the pursuit of creating a crooked, humorous and surprising set of abstract stories. Digital images of the work will be posted on the White Box web site www.whiteboxny.org daily during the installation process. This project was made possible by the support of the Danish Contemporary Art Foundation, The Royal Danish Consulate, Engineer Ernst B. Sund Foundation and the Asta and Jul. P. Justesen Foundation. Viewing hours: Tuesday-Saturday 11am - 6pm. White Box is a 501[c][3] not-for-profit arts organization. White Box 525 West 26th Street New York, NY 10001 tel 212-714-2347 info@whiteboxny.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:07:37 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Poetics List Administration Subject: Seattle SubText reading * hug-o-house (fwd) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Friday, May 30, 2003 6:22 AM +0000 From: "subrosa@speakeasy.org" To: POETICS-request@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Seattle SubText reading * hug-o-house Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental writing with readings by Allison Cobb, Jen Coleman, and Sarah Mangold at the Richard Hugo House on Wednesday, June 4, 2003. Suggested donations for admission are $5 at the door on the evening of the performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. Allison Cobb is author The LIttle Box Book (Situation), The J Poems (BabySelf),Polar Bear and Desert Fox (BabySelf) and One-foot A History Play (BabySelf). Her full-length collection Born Two is forthcoming this from Chax Press. She lives in Brooklyn, NY. Jen Coleman is a poet in NYC and co-editor of the poetry journal POMPOM. She's also co-author of the chapbook Communal Bebop Canto with CE Putnam and Allison Cobb, and author of the chapbook Propinquity. You can see her work online at http://www.theeastvillage.com/v12.htm Raised in Oklahoma, Sarah Mangold received an MFA from San Francisco State University. She is the author of Household Mechanics, selected by C.D. Wright for the 2001 New Issues Poetry Prize. She is also author of a chapbook, Blood Substitutes (Potes & Poets, 1998), and the editor of the Seattle-based magazine Bird Dog. The future Subtext 2003 schedule is: July 2 - Subtext 9th Anniversary Group Reading August 6 - Joseph Donahue (Seattle and elsewhere) & TBA Sept 3 - David Perry (Brooklyn) & C. E. Putnam For info on these & other Subtext events, see our website: http://www.speakeasy.org/subtext. ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:18:19 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer In-Reply-To: <1054301218.3ed75c222c98b@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE I agree with what you say here. When I was in college I used to get the NYer just for the amazing Pauline Kael film reviews. Then after she left, and as I got deeper into poetry, I boycotted the mag for years on principle. A few years a ago a good subscription deal, along with a move to a city, brought me back, and now I'm a regular reader, even tho the mag often infuriates me. What's really astounding, as you suggest, is that some of the political and cultural writing in the mag is quite good (Hersch is especially astute on politics), and even some of the fiction is strong, while the poetry editing remains absolutely, unbelievably atrocious. So yes, there have to be some intelligent readers of the mag to whom one might be able to speak with an informed letter (or whole bunch of letters) on the subject of poetry. If this happened often enough, maybe they'd figure out they were doing something wrong... Steve On Fri, 30 May 2003 mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > Bob, For my money Alice Quinn is the worst poetry editor on the planet --= she > chooses absolutely atrocious poems, and the situation is only made worse = by the > fact that she'll occasionally let a big name poet like Ashbery slide thro= ugh > (which I don't hold against Ashbery incidentally - why not have the NYer'= s > readers read him instead of some crappy poem by Pinsky et al, whatever th= e bad > editorial intentions). I myself am not so smug about the NYer as a whole= =2E I > think its a halfway decent mag with many intelligent readers -- some of t= heir > writers (Seymour Hirsch, Schjeldahl, Anthony Lane, Jon Lee Anderson come = to > mind) are pretty damn good. So why not try to let the readership know th= at > they shouldn't take Malcolm's word on Stein? Language is a site of socia= l > contestation. I'm not content to preach to my little choir of good poetr= y > lovers. I suppose my experience teaching Stein plays into this -- studen= ts who > have never been exposed to anything like Stein sometimes end up loving he= r and > when this happens they walk away with a very different relationship to th= eir > own language. Much more so than Malcolm's blunt critique of Stein's supp= osed > fascist sympathies, I was put off by her disdain for the writing -- which= she > reads as a simple attention-grab by the simple-minded overconfident baby = in the > bourgeois family. Why should those NYer readers unfamiliar with Stein no= t be > informed that their getting a stupid, narrow-minded portrait here? Stein > herself treated poetry as action and my writing to the NYer was done in t= hat > spirit. > > -m. > > > > Quoting Bob Grumman : > > > But, Mike, why on earth should anyone care what the > > New Yorker has to say about poetry? When was the last > > time it published any poetry or criticism on any > > poetry by a living author that uses techniques not in > > wide use by 1978 at the very latest? > > > > --Bob G. > > > > --- mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > > > Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I > > > just sent to the New Yorker > > > regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude > > > Stein. The "outing" of > > > Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all > > > historical and personal > > > nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the > > > discussion of Stein's writing > > > is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more > > > politic in the letter itself but > > > that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as > > > I was reading this (I > > > could barely get through the damn thing) I'd > > > encourage you to send your own > > > letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people > > > send they'll have to print > > > at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's > > > incomprehensible tenure as > > > Poetry Editor is starting to make more sense! -m. > > > > > > **************** > > > Dear Editor, > > > > > > Whatever useful biographical information is > > > contained in Janet Malcolm=92s > > > "Gertrude Stein=92s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her > > > bizarrely vindictive tone > > > and transparent dislike for Stein=92s writing. > > > Malcolm describes Stein as simply > > > "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a > > > lifetime, relying on a > > > classic misogynist stereotype regarding women > > > writers (Hawthorne chose the word > > > "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph > > > Ellison considered her work > > > brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary > > > American poets including Susan > > > Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette > > > Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps > > > all who appreciate Stein=92s writing under the heading > > > "new Stein critics," the > > > better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New > > > Yorker=92s readers deserve > > > better than the facile innuendo and > > > pop-psychologizing that mark this article=92s > > > every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to > > > impose a narrative on the > > > stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial > > > biographer=92s trait." Well, Malcolm > > > certainly has this trait in spades. > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Michael Magee > > > Rhode Island School of Design > > > Providence, RI > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). > > http://calendar.yahoo.com > > > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:57:58 -0230 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kevin Hehir Subject: poetry & jazz this Sunday!(nyC) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT POETRY& JAZZ A sultry fusion of the spoken words of Canadian poet Leanne Averbach and the internationally acclaimed jazz/blues vocalist Judi Silvano. Original arrangement by bassist Tod Hedrick’s quartet. Erotic, compelling and new, inspired by the classic sounds of Gershwin,Chet Baker, Peggy Lee and others. Sunday June 1, 7 p.m. Bar 55 55 Christopher St (betw. 6th & 7th) 212-929-9883 Friday June 13, 9 & 10:30 p.m. Cornelia St. Café 29 Cornelia St. 212-989-9319 NYC 2003 Leanne Averbach Vancouver: (604) 222-3327 New York: (212) 712-9071 Cell: (604) 817-2911 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:59:34 +0100 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Robert Stanton Subject: shameless self-promotion Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Issue is dead. Long live Son of Issue: www.sonofissue.blogspot.com _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail messages direct to your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:08:30 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Austinwja@AOL.COM Subject: New Blackbox online MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello everyone, Please check out the new Blackbox/Spring Collisions gallery for new work by Michael Basinski, mIEKAL aND, Sheila E. Murphy, John M. Bennett, Andrew Topel, Carlos Luis, Jordan Davis. Go to WilliamJamesAustin.com and follow the Blackbox link. Best, Bill WilliamJamesAustin.com amazon.com b&n.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:34:18 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Steven Shoemaker Subject: gravity' elbow (jumps) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII You know how when you're following a certain line, or lines, of inquiry various stuff starts to jump out at you from disparate sources, setting up some sort of strange resonance network? Here's a fairly "random" grouping. -- "Now, having dined, comfortably lying in my overstuffed lounge chair, I am holding a pencil and a piece of paper. My brow is unfurrowed because I have dismissed all concern from my mind. My thinking seems something separate from me. I can see it. It rises and falls...but that is its only activity. To remind it that it is my thinking and that its duty is to make itself evident, I grasp the pencil." (Svevo, Zeno's Conscience) -- "As soon as I see, it is necessary that the vision (as is so well indicated by the double meaning of the word) be doubled with a complementary vision or with another vision: myself seen from without, such as another would see me, installed in the midst of the visible, occupied in considering it from a certain spot." [This chimes interestingly with autopoietic insistence on the role of the observer.] (Merleau-Ponty, The Visible and the Invisible) -- "To consent to language signifies to act in such a way that, in the abysmal experience of the taking place of language, in the removal of the voice, another Voice is disclosed to man, and along with this are also disclosed the dimension of being and the moral risk of nothingness." [And Bill asked about my "resistance"! But of course, one must consent.] (Giorgio Agamben, Language and Death, cited by Taggart writing on Oppen) -- "The doors are too small, and the steps are made of dough!" (Murder, My Sweet, film adaptation of Chandler's Farewell, My Lovely, directed by Dmytryk, who went on, but the way, to get blacklisted. Marlowe has just been drugged up at a "sanitarium" run by the mob.) [Liked this one as a reminder of the subjective nature of perception/experience, and it seemed especially hilarious to me last night since I had just had abdominal surgery yesterday (nothing too serious) and was woozy with pain-killers. And today I get to keep making the choice between a rather painfully "embodied" state and a fuzzily floating head, which is why I'm sitting here typing out quotes instead of doing the stuff I should be doing...] ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:51:33 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: Innovation and "uniform networks" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > --- John Tranter wrote: > > ...Might this have something to say to us about the > > effect that clustering > > in groups has on literary innovation? (for > > "entrepreneur" read "poet") -- I once read in an alternative grocery store newsletter that to simply rearrange the shelves in the store creates an impression that everything is new again and customers buy 20% more, and the staff works 20% harder. This might have to do with neural organization -- and bear again on reality vs. language. I've also read that going new places in old age can keep a person feeling younger, and keep their mind sharp. So that people who are rich and have the money to travel live longer. Again this is probably neural to a great extent. Once a place becomes old the neurons aren't firing as much, or something like this? -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:23:52 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: most disturbing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mark, your point is very interesting here. The reason I'm not talking about the war is that I feel abysmally ignorant about that part of the world (as well as most other things). Since the WTC attack I've read Bernard Lewis, Edward Said, and Abu-Khalil, and several others, watched CNN, etc. But I still don't know. Last night they had all these men who had been in Saddam's torture chambers on -- going into the places and showing the weird gadgets that he attached to their ears and genitals. I thought, he needed to be attacked. But, from the air? And who are all these people? In the city of Mosul, for instance, there are a million and a half Christians. That's to the north. Well, there used to be five million of them fifty years ago. They've been slaughtered, and they've also left. They make up a big percentage of what passes for a middle class in Iraq. They are the last people on earth to speak Aramaic, the language that Christ spoke. Mosul, in fact, is the newest name for what used to be Ninevah! Ninevah was propagandized by Jonah, after he got out of the whale. And so you'd think -- ok, these people would probably be on our side. But the Kurds, who are also on our side, apparently, have themselves slaughtered several hundred thousand of these Christians. And Saddam's men have butchered them, too. And then it turns out that Saddam likes the Christians better than the Shiites. In fact, his vice president was a Christian from this group, and this vice president is responsible for some of the tragedies. It's so perplexing, so utterly mixed up, that it really is like looking into a can of worms. Add the oil motives, add the British history in the region, the Russians want it, the Kuwaitis ARE blocking the Iraqi access to the sea, and it beats me. Early on when the war started I thought I knew what was going on, and now I'm just getting more and more confused every day the more I learn. I don't see any thesis, any argument, any clear logic for improving the situation. Wrapping American flags around Saddam's head wasn't a good idea. But I don't know what is. I don't really know if the situation has been worsened or made better for the average Iraqi, if such a mythical creature could be said to exist. It's certainly changed. Now just when I was beginning to get up to speed on this Iraq issue there's a full-blown horror show in the Congo. These histories are endlessly deep. And people have a sense in these older places that goes back sometimes thousands of years. I once talked to a nice civilized Serbian man who runs a big hotel in the Pocono Mountains. He was a professional soccer player in Germany when the Croats came and butchered his entire family. He's the only person left. So I asked him if he had any sympathy for the Bosnian Muslims. Hell no, he said, they've only been there 600 years! They're interlopers! That seems a long time to bear a grudge, no? But how bombs are going to help beats me. Or conversely how knocking over the WTC towers is going to help is equally beyond me. Isn't it like scratching poison ivy? Personally, I'm in favor of setting up a democracy in Iraq, but I don't think it can be easily done. It worked in Germany, Japan, and some other places after WWII, though, so I'm not sure. So who wants to hear from a guy who isn't sure about what he's talking about, anyway? -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:02:01 -0400 Reply-To: az421@freenet.carleton.ca Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Rob McLennan Subject: [bookthug@hotmail.com: Notice to the Public] Apollinaire's Bookshop is pleased to make available to the public the following BookThug titles: --- The First Confessional Poems of the Toronto Poetry and Painting Guild by Jesse Huisken 22pp; 8vo; 60 copies stapled and bound into printed wrappers. Jesse Huisken confesses: "to live in Toronto where he writes poetry and paints." $7CDN --- Cow Swims Lake Ontario or, The Case of the Waterlogged Quadruped by David W. McFadden np [20 pages]; 12mo; 52 numbered copies sewn and bound into printed wrappers, signed by The Author. In the ominous year of 1984, David McFadden published The Art of Darkness, undoubtedly one of his finest volumes of poetry, where [beginning on page 52] his long poem 'The Cow That Swam Lake Ontario' appears, a poem he once performed wearing a Cow Suit. Now, in this polite little volume, David McFadden himself has re-written this fine poem for contemporary audiences everywhere. $15CDN Proceeds from the sale of this book will go to the support of the David W. McFadden Bovine Wildlife Preserve where he can wear his Cow Suit in peace. --- Species: Ex(hib)it by nathalie stephens np [24 pages]; 12mo; 60 copies stapled and bound into printed wrappers. nathalie stephens is truly bilingual and writes in both English and French. She is the author of several books in either or neither languages, and will be releasing Paper City with Coach House Books in the fall of 2003. $7CDN --- Usual terms: Book Production War Economy Standard. Prices are net with shipping extra if shipping is necessary. And if possible I will crash the reading at The Victory Cafe that is scheduled to follow the aforementioned Small Press Book Fair along with Apollinaire's "Bookshoppe in a Box" which will feature the above titles. That is all for now. Thank you for your e-time. --- Apollinaire's Bookshoppe 33 Webb Avenue Toronto Ontario Canada M6P 1M4 bookthug@hotmail.com -- poet/editor/pub. ... ed. STANZAS mag & side/lines: a new canadian poetics (Insomniac)...pub., above/ground press ...coord., Small Press Action Network - Ottawa (SPAN-O) ...snail c/o rr#1 maxville ontario canada k0c 1t0 www.track0.com/rob_mclennan * 7th coll'n - paper hotel (Broken Jaw Press) ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:34:30 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: David Hadbawnik Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer In-Reply-To: <1054140194.3ed4e7228c92b@webmail.sas.upenn.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mike I was reading the article this morning over breakfast -- between surfing for good cartoons and gagging over the atrocious poetry -- and I have to say it didn't raise my hackles as it seems to have done yours. In fact I broke out laughing in delight while reading out loud the bits of Stein they'd printed -- perhaps the opposite effect it was intended to have in this context? I'm not done with the article, so maybe it hasn't hit me yet. I did read the part about the "oozing," and it struck me as the typical middle-brow skepticism that seems to surround the act of serious writing. Stein DID say after all that a half an hour of writing was plenty for her, but that was after YEARS of famously staying up all night to work on writing then sleeping till noon. Nowhere does Malcolm acknowledge this fact, nor how on earth a work as immense as "The Making of Americans" could have been done on 30 minutes a day of writing -- er, excuse me, "oozing" out text. Frankly I'm not terribly interested in whether Stein voted Republican or Democrat, and I certainly don't want to encourage a thread on this note. But I noticed that you didn't mention the "outing" in your actual letter -- is that because it's more of a contextual argument, or are there factual errors here? DH -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU]On Behalf Of mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 9:43 AM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: Stein in the NYer Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I just sent to the New Yorker regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude Stein. The "outing" of Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all historical and personal nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the discussion of Stein's writing is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more politic in the letter itself but that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as I was reading this (I could barely get through the damn thing) I'd encourage you to send your own letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people send they'll have to print at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's incomprehensible tenure as Poetry Editor is starting to make more nse! -m. **************** Dear Editor, Whatever useful biographical information is contained in Janet Malcolm’s "Gertrude Stein’s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her bizarrely vindictive tone and transparent dislike for Stein’s writing. Malcolm describes Stein as simply "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a lifetime, relying on a classic misogynist stereotype regarding women writers (Hawthorne chose the word "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph Ellison considered her work brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary American poets including Susan Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps all who appreciate Stein’s writing under the heading "new Stein critics," the better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New Yorker’s readers deserve better than the facile innuendo and pop-psychologizing that mark this article’s every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to impose a narrative on the stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial biographer’s trait." Well, Malcolm certainly has this trait in spades. Sincerely, Michael Magee Rhode Island School of Design Providence, RI ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:49:41 -0400 Reply-To: kevinkillian@earthlink.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: "kevinkillian@earthlink.net" Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here I thought Ulla Dydo an eminently sensible person as well as a brilliant Stein scholar=2E But you have to have rocks in your head to inv= ite Janet "The Punisher" Malcolm into your apartment=2E Hasn't she ever seen = any Hammer films? Once you invite one over your threshold, you're mince meat!= !! -- Kevin K=2E -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:44:04 EDT Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group Comments: RFC822 error: Incorrect or incomplete address field found and ignored. From: Craig Allen Conrad Subject: NESTER & CONRAD @ Giovanni's Room 06/05/03 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Daniel Nester and CAConrad will read Thursday, June 5 at 5:30 pm Giovanni's Room Bookstore corner of 12th & Pine streets in beautiful Philadelphia event is free copies of their books will be available Daniel Nester will read from his smashing new book GOD SAVE MY QUEEN (Soft Skull Press http://softskull.com ) http://www.godsavemyqueen.com "...a sprawling meditation on the rock band Queen and the late legendary singer Freddie Mercury." here are two samples from Nester's book: MISFIRE Is this where I mention boring storylines, the first mention of firearms? Nowadays, I'm not supposed to like it, the South American soap opera, a thir= d man springs up midscreen. You with your watchdogs and retirement mind-set. But when I hear it, I see where I was at all along. I wanted AM radio as=20 much as the next son of a bitch. But nobody is gonna help me write a bridge, much=20 less a chorus build-up. No OJT. But there it is, that '74 snappitude. An obvious ejaculation, and an outro that's all outro. ************* IF YOU CAN'T BEAT THEM I have no friends. I try and woo hailfellows, but jokes fall flat. Mary=20 won't wear my cap to the zoo. No one wears my cap to the zoo. Do you know what that's like, to be no one's friend? One day Greg and Romolo decide to have a game where only guys with small-siz= e underwear can participate. I am "husky" and so am excluded. They play Free= ze Tag all recess, and I dance with the Faggy Boys. No friends. But now that's all over. I have you guys to play with! ************* CAConrad's book FRANK is forthcoming from The Jargon Society, advancedELVIScourse is forthcoming from Buck Downs Books, and DEVIANT PROPULSION is forthcoming from Soft Skull Press. here are two samples from his 7MARCHES series: carry another sex on your sex in your fellow human streets look and look listen listen this risen spirit trying hard to belong to no one HAIL down the want! STOP making maps for those wanderers! step from a giant ass fully clothed another week in the trash with alarming speed our sudden death our shittiest surprise =93what=92s fair?=94 we asked once =93never heard of it=94 our answer arrived no return address ************* TURN EAST AT THE SIGNPOST CRUCIFIX as though none of us exist he reads only dead poets those frigid necropoetics can he=20 feel these contradictions of light falling around us? it=92s my poet=20 genius friends who excite me to write checking with the music in my head I go to them aspirin melting in hand running thru the rain ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 12:56:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gloria Frym Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The only magazine that runs more atrocious poetry than the New Yorker (discounting Ashbery and a few anomalous pieces that slip in) is The Nation. Granted they often have decent book reviews, but the poems are embarassing--this is what the politically progressive and radical readership has to eat as poetry. There should be dietary laws.... Gloria Frym On Fri, 30 May 2003 13:18:19 -0400 Steven Shoemaker wrote: >I agree with what you say here. When I was in college I used to get the >NYer just for the amazing Pauline Kael film reviews. Then after she left, >and as I got deeper into poetry, I boycotted the mag for years on >principle. A few years a ago a good subscription deal, along with a move >to a city, brought me back, and now I'm a regular reader, even tho the mag >often infuriates me. What's really astounding, as you suggest, is that >some of the political and cultural writing in the mag is quite good >(Hersch is especially astute on politics), and even some of the fiction is >strong, while the poetry editing remains absolutely, unbelievably >atrocious. So yes, there have to be some intelligent readers of the mag >to whom one might be able to speak with an informed letter (or whole bunch >of >letters) on the subject of poetry. If this happened often enough, maybe >they'd figure out they were doing something wrong... >Steve >On Fri, 30 May 2003 mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: > >> Bob, For my money Alice Quinn is the worst poetry editor on the planet -- >>she >> chooses absolutely atrocious poems, and the situation is only made worse by >>the >> fact that she'll occasionally let a big name poet like Ashbery slide through >> (which I don't hold against Ashbery incidentally - why not have the NYer's >> readers read him instead of some crappy poem by Pinsky et al, whatever the >>bad >> editorial intentions). I myself am not so smug about the NYer as a whole. >> I >> think its a halfway decent mag with many intelligent readers -- some of >>their >> writers (Seymour Hirsch, Schjeldahl, Anthony Lane, Jon Lee Anderson come to >> mind) are pretty damn good. So why not try to let the readership know that >> they shouldn't take Malcolm's word on Stein? Language is a site of social >> contestation. I'm not content to preach to my little choir of good poetry >> lovers. I suppose my experience teaching Stein plays into this -- students >>who >> have never been exposed to anything like Stein sometimes end up loving her >>and >> when this happens they walk away with a very different relationship to their >> own language. Much more so than Malcolm's blunt critique of Stein's >>supposed >> fascist sympathies, I was put off by her disdain for the writing -- which >>she >> reads as a simple attention-grab by the simple-minded overconfident baby in >>the >> bourgeois family. Why should those NYer readers unfamiliar with Stein not >>be >> informed that their getting a stupid, narrow-minded portrait here? Stein >> herself treated poetry as action and my writing to the NYer was done in that >> spirit. >> >> -m. >> >> >> >> Quoting Bob Grumman : >> >> > But, Mike, why on earth should anyone care what the >> > New Yorker has to say about poetry? When was the last >> > time it published any poetry or criticism on any >> > poetry by a living author that uses techniques not in >> > wide use by 1978 at the very latest? >> > >> > --Bob G. >> > >> > --- mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: >> > > Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I >> > > just sent to the New Yorker >> > > regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude >> > > Stein. The "outing" of >> > > Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all >> > > historical and personal >> > > nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the >> > > discussion of Stein's writing >> > > is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more >> > > politic in the letter itself but >> > > that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as >> > > I was reading this (I >> > > could barely get through the damn thing) I'd >> > > encourage you to send your own >> > > letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people >> > > send they'll have to print >> > > at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's >> > > incomprehensible tenure as >> > > Poetry Editor is starting to make more sense! -m. >> > > >> > > **************** >> > > Dear Editor, >> > > >> > > Whatever useful biographical information is >> > > contained in Janet Malcolm?s >> > > "Gertrude Stein?s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her >> > > bizarrely vindictive tone >> > > and transparent dislike for Stein?s writing. >> > > Malcolm describes Stein as simply >> > > "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a >> > > lifetime, relying on a >> > > classic misogynist stereotype regarding women >> > > writers (Hawthorne chose the word >> > > "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph >> > > Ellison considered her work >> > > brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary >> > > American poets including Susan >> > > Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette >> > > Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps >> > > all who appreciate Stein?s writing under the heading >> > > "new Stein critics," the >> > > better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New >> > > Yorker?s readers deserve >> > > better than the facile innuendo and >> > > pop-psychologizing that mark this article?s >> > > every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to >> > > impose a narrative on the >> > > stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial >> > > biographer?s trait." Well, Malcolm >> > > certainly has this trait in spades. >> > > >> > > Sincerely, >> > > >> > > Michael Magee >> > > Rhode Island School of Design >> > > Providence, RI >> > >> > >> > __________________________________ >> > Do you Yahoo!? >> > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >> > http://calendar.yahoo.com >> > >> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:28:54 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joseph Thomas Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I've always assumed the Nation was aware it was running doggerel. Joseph At 12:56 PM 5/30/03 -0700, Gloria Frym wrote: >The only magazine that runs more atrocious poetry than the New Yorker >(discounting Ashbery and a few anomalous pieces that slip in) is The Nation. > Granted they often have decent book reviews, but the poems are >embarassing--this is what the politically progressive and radical readership >has to eat as poetry. There should be dietary laws.... > >Gloria Frym > > >On Fri, 30 May 2003 13:18:19 -0400 > Steven Shoemaker wrote: >>I agree with what you say here. When I was in college I used to get the >>NYer just for the amazing Pauline Kael film reviews. Then after she left, >>and as I got deeper into poetry, I boycotted the mag for years on >>principle. A few years a ago a good subscription deal, along with a move >>to a city, brought me back, and now I'm a regular reader, even tho the mag >>often infuriates me. What's really astounding, as you suggest, is that >>some of the political and cultural writing in the mag is quite good >>(Hersch is especially astute on politics), and even some of the fiction is >>strong, while the poetry editing remains absolutely, unbelievably >>atrocious. So yes, there have to be some intelligent readers of the mag >>to whom one might be able to speak with an informed letter (or whole bunch >>of >>letters) on the subject of poetry. If this happened often enough, maybe >>they'd figure out they were doing something wrong... >>Steve >>On Fri, 30 May 2003 mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: >> >>> Bob, For my money Alice Quinn is the worst poetry editor on the planet -- >>>she >>> chooses absolutely atrocious poems, and the situation is only made worse by >>>the >>> fact that she'll occasionally let a big name poet like Ashbery slide through >>> (which I don't hold against Ashbery incidentally - why not have the NYer's >>> readers read him instead of some crappy poem by Pinsky et al, whatever the >>>bad >>> editorial intentions). I myself am not so smug about the NYer as a whole. >>> I >>> think its a halfway decent mag with many intelligent readers -- some of >>>their >>> writers (Seymour Hirsch, Schjeldahl, Anthony Lane, Jon Lee Anderson come to >>> mind) are pretty damn good. So why not try to let the readership know that >>> they shouldn't take Malcolm's word on Stein? Language is a site of social >>> contestation. I'm not content to preach to my little choir of good poetry >>> lovers. I suppose my experience teaching Stein plays into this -- students >>>who >>> have never been exposed to anything like Stein sometimes end up loving her >>>and >>> when this happens they walk away with a very different relationship to their >>> own language. Much more so than Malcolm's blunt critique of Stein's >>>supposed >>> fascist sympathies, I was put off by her disdain for the writing -- which >>>she >>> reads as a simple attention-grab by the simple-minded overconfident baby in >>>the >>> bourgeois family. Why should those NYer readers unfamiliar with Stein not >>>be >>> informed that their getting a stupid, narrow-minded portrait here? Stein >>> herself treated poetry as action and my writing to the NYer was done in that >>> spirit. >>> >>> -m. >>> >>> >>> >>> Quoting Bob Grumman : >>> >>> > But, Mike, why on earth should anyone care what the >>> > New Yorker has to say about poetry? When was the last >>> > time it published any poetry or criticism on any >>> > poetry by a living author that uses techniques not in >>> > wide use by 1978 at the very latest? >>> > >>> > --Bob G. >>> > >>> > --- mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: >>> > > Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I >>> > > just sent to the New Yorker >>> > > regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude >>> > > Stein. The "outing" of >>> > > Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all >>> > > historical and personal >>> > > nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the >>> > > discussion of Stein's writing >>> > > is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more >>> > > politic in the letter itself but >>> > > that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as >>> > > I was reading this (I >>> > > could barely get through the damn thing) I'd >>> > > encourage you to send your own >>> > > letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people >>> > > send they'll have to print >>> > > at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's >>> > > incomprehensible tenure as >>> > > Poetry Editor is starting to make more sense! -m. >>> > > >>> > > **************** >>> > > Dear Editor, >>> > > >>> > > Whatever useful biographical information is >>> > > contained in Janet Malcolm?s >>> > > "Gertrude Stein?s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her >>> > > bizarrely vindictive tone >>> > > and transparent dislike for Stein?s writing. >>> > > Malcolm describes Stein as simply >>> > > "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a >>> > > lifetime, relying on a >>> > > classic misogynist stereotype regarding women >>> > > writers (Hawthorne chose the word >>> > > "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph >>> > > Ellison considered her work >>> > > brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary >>> > > American poets including Susan >>> > > Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette >>> > > Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps >>> > > all who appreciate Stein?s writing under the heading >>> > > "new Stein critics," the >>> > > better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New >>> > > Yorker?s readers deserve >>> > > better than the facile innuendo and >>> > > pop-psychologizing that mark this article?s >>> > > every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to >>> > > impose a narrative on the >>> > > stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial >>> > > biographer?s trait." Well, Malcolm >>> > > certainly has this trait in spades. >>> > > >>> > > Sincerely, >>> > > >>> > > Michael Magee >>> > > Rhode Island School of Design >>> > > Providence, RI >>> > >>> > >>> > __________________________________ >>> > Do you Yahoo!? >>> > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >>> > http://calendar.yahoo.com >>> > >>> ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:22:48 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: Poem of the Rotten Book Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed fish of the rotten book white an eye over to them old pulled waves balled up, they are, thru scuzzy depths / two dolls big bed Sunday a nailing fist-first swiveled sweat imagination, still mine habits art driftwood-draped emptied head went away like a Venusian waving gaily out the spaceship window goodbye, pearly goodbye, old ghost father, without you the sun's going spiders these spiders ride with their hearts stuck out like thumbs, like tongues Poe them to me heartless as rotten books slipping over them old pulled waves _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:23:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harrison Jeff Subject: AmeRiCANA MUNDI Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed everywhere on the radio, interpretation is overlooked the channel is slipping, confidence can well afford it looking out like the statue his strength kept current as was bidden by the bone-setters, gripped with a knack for war-psychosis... you have to start it just for the record, only making it lewder betrayal isolated on the spur of his years engaged eccentricities go for caution it was time to go, old spoilsport the miseries of this Hurlothrumbo period pray for disguise _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 13:42:42 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Max Winter Subject: Re: Stein in the Ny'er MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually--she didn't. That was Edward Burns who let her in. Here I thought Ulla Dydo an eminently sensible person as well as a brilliant Stein scholar. But you have to have rocks in your head to invite Janet "The Punisher" Malcolm into your apartment. Hasn't she ever seen any Hammer films? Once you invite one over your threshold, you're mince meat!!! -- Kevin K. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:11:13 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: John Platt Subject: TWHM III MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit after you have had an opportunity the tube is too thick those separated by the sea please send us if he handles the pack includes both horticulture and fishing we wish you would let us know thus when the chosen the other a modern version if it is possible for you the breaks at one end phrase is regarded as important ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:27:21 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: most disturbing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kirby: You make some excellent points. We're all confused, but that's the point. People who think they know the right course for others are blind to themselves. Complexity is an attribute of the Postmodern God. Even if Iraq heals, America is not on a path to heal itself, but on one that, daily, is creating more internal, and external, bleeding. We need a revolution in consciousness first, in ethics, then, before politics can begin make sense. -Joel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kirby Olson" To: Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 12:23 PM Subject: Re: most disturbing > Mark, your point is very interesting here. The reason I'm not talking about the > war is that I feel abysmally ignorant about that part of the world (as well as > most other things). Since the WTC attack I've read Bernard Lewis, Edward Said, > and Abu-Khalil, and several others, watched CNN, etc. But I still don't know. > Last night they had all these men who had been in Saddam's torture chambers on -- > going into the places and showing the weird gadgets that he attached to their > ears and genitals. I thought, he needed to be attacked. But, from the air? And > who are all these people? In the city of Mosul, for instance, there are a > million and a half Christians. That's to the north. Well, there used to be five > million of them fifty years ago. They've been slaughtered, and they've also > left. They make up a big percentage of what passes for a middle class in Iraq. > They are the last people on earth to speak Aramaic, the language that Christ > spoke. Mosul, in fact, is the newest name for what used to be Ninevah! Ninevah > was propagandized by Jonah, after he got out of the whale. And so you'd think -- > ok, these people would probably be on our side. But the Kurds, who are also on > our side, apparently, have themselves slaughtered several hundred thousand of > these Christians. And Saddam's men have butchered them, too. And then it turns > out that Saddam likes the Christians better than the Shiites. In fact, his vice > president was a Christian from this group, and this vice president is responsible > for some of the tragedies. It's so perplexing, so utterly mixed up, that it > really is like looking into a can of worms. Add the oil motives, add the British > history in the region, the Russians want it, the Kuwaitis ARE blocking the Iraqi > access to the sea, and it beats me. Early on when the war started I thought I > knew what was going on, and now I'm just getting more and more confused every day > the more I learn. I don't see any thesis, any argument, any clear logic for > improving the situation. Wrapping American flags around Saddam's head wasn't a > good idea. But I don't know what is. I don't really know if the situation has > been worsened or made better for the average Iraqi, if such a mythical creature > could be said to exist. It's certainly changed. Now just when I was beginning > to get up to speed on this Iraq issue there's a full-blown horror show in the > Congo. These histories are endlessly deep. And people have a sense in these > older places that goes back sometimes thousands of years. > > I once talked to a nice civilized Serbian man who runs a big hotel in the Pocono > Mountains. He was a professional soccer player in Germany when the Croats came > and butchered his entire family. He's the only person left. So I asked him if > he had any sympathy for the Bosnian Muslims. Hell no, he said, they've only been > there 600 years! They're interlopers! > > That seems a long time to bear a grudge, no? But how bombs are going to help > beats me. > > Or conversely how knocking over the WTC towers is going to help is equally beyond > me. Isn't it like scratching poison ivy? > > Personally, I'm in favor of setting up a democracy in Iraq, but I don't think it > can be easily done. It worked in Germany, Japan, and some other places after > WWII, though, so I'm not sure. > > So who wants to hear from a guy who isn't sure about what he's talking about, > anyway? > > -- Kirby Olson ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:59:27 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jonathan E Minton Subject: Word For/Word #4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Word For/Word #4 is available at http://www.wordforword.info with new poetry and poetics by Petra Backonja, John Byrum, Amit Dwibedy, Jason Earls, kari edwards, Noah Eli Gordon, Scott Helmes, Stephen Kirbach, Rachel Moritz, Sheila E. Murphy, Michael Peters, Gregory Vincent St. Thomasino, Steve Timm, Andrew Topel, and Dorothea Lasky. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ from "how are you organized?" by Sheila E. Murphy how important is immersion versus brush against a simple parable? are stories part of your career? do you like bullets more than longhand prose? if a pen you liked were blue what would you do about the red ones? are hypotheticals merely arranged plain facts? would you call yourself in favor of control amid temptation not to be in full control? have you in recent memory recalled something you can produce intact? which daisies do you prefer: cardboard or yellow ones? on the matter of enlightened love, do you read me with your glasses on? ==================== "[The Sea's is a] / Plangent, Grinding Ratio," by Petra Backonja Increased infeed rate on surface finish no damage but a slight fracture above the edges something about the eternal problem of images eccentric fret behind the saltmarsh bulrush and of sampling and measuring a good deal the next hexagonal round: dashed cobbles strike the hour why and how the sand moves but so do our minutes hasten to their end from island dunes and bottoms of nearby lagoons mnemonic distortions are cleared away images in the art of memory no longer confined to rough machining, to drawn-down planetary powers bestial music. A beach is all the sand in motion above and below water a beach is sand's emotion stirred by water a non-synchronous system past far-past tangents. Observe the foam lines. Dwell at this point 3/4 of a moment as memory with no tenderness strikes the ocean's brow. ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:22:48 -0400 Reply-To: patrick@proximate.org Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Patrick Herron Subject: Re: the selling of matthew barney MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Stephen. Isn't there something there in Barney's work (all over it, really) that in some way *celebrates* some perceived higher-order beauty in all the madness and exploitation of the Machine? Is it not then unsurprising, then, that for Cremaster 3 Barney won the first Hugo Boss Prize? Hugo Boss the member of the Nazi Party who designed those Nazi military uniforms, jack boots and all? Wondrous exploitative fetishism, put to work for the grandiose and malignant (and at least partly Masonic, interestingly enough) causes of the SS? I can understand a philosophical acceptance of the Machine, of accepting the way things are, but not without a simultaneous rejection of and resistance to that Machine. Just to contextualize Barney's work, it's the Freemasons and Skull and Bones that at least indirectly provided Barney with a significant amount of his money. But enough with the externals. I guess I just wanted Barney's work to do more. For me the Cremaster films seem to further legitimize the Big Machine and the Rules of the Game. I find it a bit disappointing that sexual repression and forced gender roles function in Barney's work as part of a higher and more beautiful order, purposed for a greater and more gorgeous end, and that the most perfect release from the chains of such repression is through the myth of Hiram Abiff the Master Mason conflated into a story of the building of the Chrysler building (Cremaster 3). That the Master Mason is fellow Yaleie Richard Serra is not at all suspect, clubby even? Maybe it's a joke wink wink but there you have it: wink wink (ho hum). All that vaseline for Barney seems to make sense only in the context of the masonic myth and the its resonance with male sexual frustration (e.g., the bar made of cooled vaseline with the masonic tools in the middle) and just benefits the status quo. The machine entering the body in all of its holes. There's nothing very critical or culturally ambitious about it. It's almost as if Barney brought the production values of a cutting-edge Hollywood sci-fi film (I can't help but see the white spaceships of Star Wars in my mind's eye when seeing Barney's work) to the art world. More money, more surface, more complacency, less insight. Chilled Vaseline "gives good face": it has a sort of marvelous plastic pearlescence. I honestly don't find his work shocking or upsetting or obscene in the least. Not in the art world. Call me a jaded observer. I don't even find Nan Goldin's more recent work obscene (which I saw in Chelsea NYC in late March) any more, but instead tired, cheap, exploitative, pathetic. Obscenity was writ large in the 70s and 80s art universe, from Acconci's jacking off performance piece to Piss Christ, that controversial crucifix in a jar of piss. It's hard to top 20 years of offenses. (Personally I like the challenge....) I can easily find much more ambitiously offensive art in Kent Johnson's "Miseries of Poetry" or in Gabe Gudding's doodie-talk. I do however find Barney's work sumptuous, seductive: a world I want to fuck in, dine in, sleep in, dream in. The Beauty of the Machine. The Perfect Madison Avenue Moment. And I find his work extraordinarily polished as well. I wish visual artists would at least take a page from Barney's book of craft, use it as a sort of standard of surface beauty. I found the best material juxtaposition was the black wedding satin. I want to *live* in that room, but it's the sort of room that has the appearance of requiring some sins in exchange for its ownership, the sort of atrocities that mark the halls of power and domination. But that satin is gorgeous. Sullied purity. Is it confounding or reinforcing such categories? To be honest I'm having some serious doubts about my own line of questioning, particularly when it comes to Barney's examinations of sexual and gender differentiation, because I think they play on assumptions that I find to be stupid in the first place. I want to avoid silly discussions of *artistic intent*: I'm incredibly skeptical of the wave of critics chattering about "Barney's personal cosmology." Such criticism serves to mystify the work and hold it up (on a pedestal? hmmm) as if the work and the artist were above us, out of reach, greater than us, deified and canonized. Instead I want to consider how Barney's Cremaster Cycle functions, the structures from which it oozes and the architectures into which it seeps. "Indulging the obscene baroque": good phrase, Stephen. I think we can find it in Peter Greenaway's films as well, though in a much more conventional, and dare I say, less stylistic way? Never thought I'd say Greenaway's work was less stylistic than someone else's. Yrs Patrick -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Vincent [mailto:steph484@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 6:27 PM Subject: Re: the selling of matthew barney Thanks Patrick, also for this. Love the Zappa song ref. Barney is not about to enter or win a "dry wall" masonry building competition! There is that wonderfully squeamish fecal and/or spermatic side to Barney's work - that viscerally connects to the usually shocked sight of the parent who discovers his young young child in the bath tub joyously playing boats or whatever with his poops. Then he does refine the surfaces, as you suggest, and loves to collide contrary material surfaces, leather to metal, etc. "Indulging the obscene Baroque" is the fancy crit phrase that the B "oeuvre" does bring to mind, well, at least my mind. Stephen Vincent ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:30:11 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Herb Levy Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer In-Reply-To: <4.1.20030530152434.01f16260@mail.ilstu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >I've always assumed the Nation was aware it was running doggerel. > >Joseph I'm sure they understand that the weekly Calvin Trillin "Deadline Poet" piece is doggerel. Trillin is almost proud in claiming the term when he talks about it. But the magazine less frequently (once or twice a month) also publishes poetry further back, in the "Books & the Arts" section, that they clearly don't think of as doggerel, by some of the same writers you see in the New Yorker, and also offers an annual juried prize in poetry. >At 12:56 PM 5/30/03 -0700, Gloria Frym wrote: >>The only magazine that runs more atrocious poetry than the New Yorker >>(discounting Ashbery and a few anomalous pieces that slip in) is The Nation. >> Granted they often have decent book reviews, but the poems are >>embarassing--this is what the politically progressive and radical readership >>has to eat as poetry. There should be dietary laws.... >> >>Gloria Frym >> >> >>On Fri, 30 May 2003 13:18:19 -0400 >> Steven Shoemaker wrote: >>>I agree with what you say here. When I was in college I used to get the >>>NYer just for the amazing Pauline Kael film reviews. Then after she left, >>>and as I got deeper into poetry, I boycotted the mag for years on >>>principle. A few years a ago a good subscription deal, along with a move >>>to a city, brought me back, and now I'm a regular reader, even tho the mag >>>often infuriates me. What's really astounding, as you suggest, is that >>>some of the political and cultural writing in the mag is quite good >>>(Hersch is especially astute on politics), and even some of the fiction is >>>strong, while the poetry editing remains absolutely, unbelievably >>>atrocious. So yes, there have to be some intelligent readers of the mag >>>to whom one might be able to speak with an informed letter (or whole bunch >>>of >>>letters) on the subject of poetry. If this happened often enough, maybe >>>they'd figure out they were doing something wrong... >>>Steve >>>On Fri, 30 May 2003 mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: >>> >>>> Bob, For my money Alice Quinn is the worst poetry editor on the planet -- >>>>she >>>> chooses absolutely atrocious poems, and the situation is only >>>>made worse by >>>>the >>>> fact that she'll occasionally let a big name poet like Ashbery slide >through >>>> (which I don't hold against Ashbery incidentally - why not have the NYer's >>>> readers read him instead of some crappy poem by Pinsky et al, whatever the >>>>bad >>>> editorial intentions). I myself am not so smug about the NYer as a whole. >>>> I >>>> think its a halfway decent mag with many intelligent readers -- some of >>>>their >>>> writers (Seymour Hirsch, Schjeldahl, Anthony Lane, Jon Lee >>>>Anderson come to >>>> mind) are pretty damn good. So why not try to let the >>>>readership know that >>>> they shouldn't take Malcolm's word on Stein? Language is a site of social >>>> contestation. I'm not content to preach to my little choir of good poetry >>>> lovers. I suppose my experience teaching Stein plays into this >>>>-- students >>>>who >>>> have never been exposed to anything like Stein sometimes end up loving her >>>>and >>>> when this happens they walk away with a very different relationship to >their >>>> own language. Much more so than Malcolm's blunt critique of Stein's >>>>supposed >>>> fascist sympathies, I was put off by her disdain for the writing -- which >>>>she >>>> reads as a simple attention-grab by the simple-minded >>>>overconfident baby in >>>>the >>>> bourgeois family. Why should those NYer readers unfamiliar with Stein not >>>>be >>>> informed that their getting a stupid, narrow-minded portrait here? Stein >>>> herself treated poetry as action and my writing to the NYer was done in >that >>>> spirit. >>>> >>>> -m. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Quoting Bob Grumman : >>>> >>>> > But, Mike, why on earth should anyone care what the >>>> > New Yorker has to say about poetry? When was the last >>>> > time it published any poetry or criticism on any >>>> > poetry by a living author that uses techniques not in >>>> > wide use by 1978 at the very latest? >>>> > >>>> > --Bob G. >>>> > >>>> > --- mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: >>>> > > Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I >>>> > > just sent to the New Yorker >>>> > > regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude >>>> > > Stein. The "outing" of >>>> > > Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all >>>> > > historical and personal >>>> > > nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the >>>> > > discussion of Stein's writing >>>> > > is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more >>>> > > politic in the letter itself but >>>> > > that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as >>>> > > I was reading this (I >>>> > > could barely get through the damn thing) I'd >>>> > > encourage you to send your own >>>> > > letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people >>>> > > send they'll have to print >>>> > > at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's >>>> > > incomprehensible tenure as >>>> > > Poetry Editor is starting to make more sense! -m. >>>> > > >>>> > > **************** >>>> > > Dear Editor, >>>> > > >>>> > > Whatever useful biographical information is >>>> > > contained in Janet Malcolm?s >>>> > > "Gertrude Stein?s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her >>>> > > bizarrely vindictive tone >>>> > > and transparent dislike for Stein?s writing. >>>> > > Malcolm describes Stein as simply >>>> > > "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a >>>> > > lifetime, relying on a >>>> > > classic misogynist stereotype regarding women >>>> > > writers (Hawthorne chose the word >>>> > > "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph >>>> > > Ellison considered her work >>>> > > brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary >>>> > > American poets including Susan >>>> > > Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette >>>> > > Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps >>>> > > all who appreciate Stein?s writing under the heading >>>> > > "new Stein critics," the >>>> > > better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New >>>> > > Yorker?s readers deserve >>>> > > better than the facile innuendo and >>>> > > pop-psychologizing that mark this article?s >>>> > > every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to >>>> > > impose a narrative on the >>>> > > stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial >>>> > > biographer?s trait." Well, Malcolm >>>> > > certainly has this trait in spades. >>>> > > >>>> > > Sincerely, >>>> > > >>>> > > Michael Magee >>>> > > Rhode Island School of Design >>>> > > Providence, RI >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > __________________________________ >>>> > Do you Yahoo!? >>>> > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >>>> > http://calendar.yahoo.com >>>> > >>>> -- Herb Levy P O Box 9369 Fort Worth, TX 76147 herb@eskimo.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:50:25 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Jesse Taylor Subject: Poetry submission call Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Call for Poetry Submissions Spiral Bridge graciously invites you to submit no more than 3 poems, three pages or under, for publishing consideration on our SpiralBridge.org web site. Please submit poems to Submissions@SpiralBridge.org You will be notified by email if your poem/s will appear on the Spiral Bridge Writers Guild web site. Your Poem(s) will remain on our home page for 2 weeks after which will be placed in our on-line archive People. This is an open ongoing call to All Poets and Writers. Be sure to include your contact information (name, address, and phone number) in the top right hand corner of the first page of your poem. We are pleased to offer you the option of including a short bio. and photo along with your poem on our home page. All submissions must be sent as attachments. Please address the e-mail Attn: Poetry Submissions Please name your document after your last name or the last name of your pen name. Thank you for your continued support of Spiral Bridge Writers Guild. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Visit us @ The Naked Readings Open Mic Poetry Series at the Bloomfield Ave. Cafe and Stage on Bloomfield Ave. in Montclair. The Next Naked Readings are Sunday, June 29th We are honored and delighted to present June's Featured Poet: Anthony McCann His first book, Father of Noise, is forthcoming from Fence Books. His work can be found in magazines such as Fine Madness and Conduit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Spiral Bridge Writers Guild is an independent, nonprofit poetry organization based in Northern New Jersey. We are dedicated to encouraging the exploration of the arts in our society by providing open poetry readings, writing workshops, educational programs, community outreach and multimedia publications. Spiral Bridge is 100% run by volunteers. http://www.spiralbridge.org ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:47:26 -0400 Reply-To: ron.silliman@gte.net Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Ron Subject: U.S. Insiders Say Iraq Intel Deliberately Skewed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit U.S. Insiders Say Iraq Intel Deliberately Skewed By Jim Wolf WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A growing number of U.S. national security professionals are accusing the Bush administration of slanting the facts and hijacking the $30 billion intelligence apparatus to justify its rush to war in Iraq (news - web sites). A key target is a four-person Pentagon (news - web sites) team that reviewed material gathered by other intelligence outfits for any missed bits that might have tied Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) to banned weapons or terrorist groups. This team, self-mockingly called the Cabal, "cherry-picked the intelligence stream" in a bid to portray Iraq as an imminent threat, said Patrick Lang, a former head of worldwide human intelligence gathering for the Defense Intelligence Agency, which coordinates military intelligence. The DIA was "exploited and abused and bypassed in the process of making the case for war in Iraq based on the presence of WMD," or weapons of mass destruction, he added in a phone interview. He said the CIA (news - web sites) had "no guts at all" to resist the allegedly deliberate skewing of intelligence by a Pentagon that he said was now dominating U.S. foreign policy. Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of Central Intelligence Agency (news - web sites) counterterrorist operations, said he knew of serving intelligence officers who blame the Pentagon for playing up "fraudulent" intelligence, "a lot of it sourced from the Iraqi National Congress of Ahmad Chalabi." The INC, which brought together groups opposed to Saddam, worked closely with the Pentagon to build a for the early use of force in Iraq. "There are current intelligence officials who believe it is a scandal," he said in a telephone interview. They believe the administration, before going to war, had a "moral obligation to use the best information available, not just information that fits your preconceived ideas." CHEMICAL WEAPONS REPORT 'SIMPLY WRONG' The top Marine Corps officer in Iraq, Lt. Gen. James Conway, said on Friday U.S. intelligence was "simply wrong" in leading military commanders to fear troops were likely to be attacked with chemical weapons in the March invasion of Iraq that ousted Saddam. Richard Perle, a Chalabi backer and member of the Defense Policy Board that advises Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, defended the four-person unit in a television interview. "They established beyond any doubt that there were connections that had gone unnoticed in previous intelligence analysis," he said on the PBS NewsHour Thursday. A Pentagon spokesman, Marine Lt. Col. David Lapan, said the team in question analyzed links among terrorist groups and alleged state sponsors and shared conclusions with the CIA. "In one case, a briefing was presented to Director of Central Intelligence Tenet. It dealt with the links between Iraq and al Qaeda," the group blamed for the Sept. 2001 attacks on the United States, he said. Tenet denied charges the intelligence community, on which the United States spends more than $30 billion a year, had skewed its analysis to fit a political agenda, a cardinal sin for professionals meant to tell the truth regardless of politics. "I'm enormously proud of the work of our analysts," he said in a statement on Friday ahead of an internal review. "The integrity of our process has been maintained throughout and any suggestion to the contrary is simply wrong." Tenet sat conspicuously behind Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) during a key Feb. 5 presentation to the U.N. Security Council arguing Iraq represented an ominous and urgent threat -- as if to lend the CIA's credibility to the presentation, replete with satellite photos. Powell said Friday his presentation was "the best analytic product that we could have put up." SHAPED 'FROM THE TOP DOWN' Greg Thielmann, who retired in September after 25 years in the State Department, the last four in the Bureau of Intelligence and Research working on weapons, said it appeared to him that intelligence had been shaped "from the top down." "The normal processing of establishing accurate intelligence was sidestepped" in the runup to invading Iraq, said David Albright, a former U.N. weapons inspector who is president of the Institute for Science and International Security and who deals with U.S. intelligence officers. Anger among security professionals appears widespread. Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, a group that says it is made up mostly of CIA intelligence analysts, wrote to U.S. President George Bush May 1 to hit what they called "a policy and intelligence fiasco of monumental proportions." "In intelligence there is one unpardonable sin -- cooking intelligence to the recipe of high policy," it wrote. "There is ample indication this has been done with respect to Iraq." ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 16:48:28 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: MWP Subject: edwardruscha x 3 In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable edwardruscha x 3 EY S / DIO / WON' / AT A / R SA / D PU RTAN / UST / SSY / CK M / HY O / A! 3 ERA / DIOS / WITH / ANS / RAIL / D DE RY K / UP L / ST P / CEME / H MA / ACE EIN / DEO / WALK / ALKS / RAWL / DULT ROYA / UPSE / S AR / CRAC / HING / AD S EAD / DES / WASH / ANCE / R PO / D LI RAFT / UEST / S ON / CLEA / HAIN / ANGE E CH / D LA / WELV / ARM / RIUM / D SC RAZY / URCH / S IN / CLES / HIST / APEL EVER / DAR / WO V / ALIU / RY S / DESI RE 1 / UBLE / SANI / CAUS / HAT / AGIL E SW / DEVO / WIMM / ACAM / RLIN / DE I RESS / URIZ / S I' / COMP / HAUS / ARTI E "P / DO B / W ME / ADEO / REAL / DOUB RKED / USIC / SLID / CT I / HE G / ALWA E GO / D TA / WIST / AMN / RAFF / DAY R WI / UFFS / STEA / C CA / HOST / AL W E'RE / D WE / WE? / A WI / R VE / DIVI RS A / UST / S CH / CKEN / HROW / A TW ERB / D B / W=8A W / AIT / R NO / DENT RNS / URNS / SEX / CK O / HER / ARS, ES F / D AN / WHO' / ANSW / R IS / D FI ROES / UCH / S CU / CA H / HREE / ATES ERAT / D LO / W CL / AUSE / RUST / D, 1 ROCK / URIS / S GE / CARP / HAZE / AR B EATI / DOUG / WKS, / AWK / RE I / DISG RAY / UART / S PA / COMM / HE S / AN A EL O / D FO / WITH / AGED / R DR / D ME RE G / U AN / S WI / CISS / HINK / ANGL EDNE / DVAN / WHER / A VE / RB O / D ID RTY? / UTH / SCLE / C SM / HEY / AL O ED W / D DR / WE'R / AND / RE T / D IF R FA / UTE=8A / S=8A L / CENT / HT H / A DO EATH / D FO / WHEN / AS B / RY S / DREA R SI / UBLE / S PO / CKNE / HE C / ANS ET J / DLES / WORD / AIR / RDS / DIST RBED / UBIL / SCIE / CE I / H FO / ARAD E HE / DREA / WE'R / AND / RE T / D SO RINC / UILD / S, P / CHOT / HE L / A PE ERY / D IF / WHIZ / AY M / R MI / D SE RE P / UMMI / S PU / CHIN / HIM / AME E DI / D EX / W H / AH D / RD Y / D TO RUMP / UNIT / S MI / C HO / HOUT / AVEN EW L / DOS / WE I / ABY / ROOM / D SP RADI / UCK / SMAS / CIL / HEAR / ATTA ERY / DES / WS A / APES / RUST / DUST RUST / UFF / SH S / C AD / H OL / ALM EMEN / ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:28:15 +0900 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Benjamin Basan Subject: Re: gravity's elbow (language and world) & MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bill, I will admit that there were some gross ambiguities in my last post. Of course, M&V wouldn't claim that rocks are cognizant; I should not have said "everything," but "every living thing." And yes, even the basic slime molds! The difficulty coming to M&V, however, is to really understand what they mean by 'reality.' I concur that it would be absurd for a pair of biologists to deny external reality! For them reality is constructed by the organism (autopoietic system) as a result of it's interaction with the world. Because our interaction with the world is dependant upon, among other things, our physical structure, nervous system, and most importantly our role as observers 'reality' is somewhat relative. The point in this regard is not that 'external reality' doesn't exist, but that it is not absolute. If you'd like a reference for this, here is a link: http://www.enolagaia.com/LetLen&Bas(1997).html And for a wonderful library of information on autopoiesis: http://www.informatik.umu.se/~rwhit/AT.html (though the guy running the site belongs to the US military - is autopoiesis as an idea split in the manner of cybernetics?) Languaging, you're right, is orienting behavior and is dependent upon the interactions between two or more individuals. And in this regard does make an interesting compliment to your point about language. However, I think there is more at play in meaning making than just language. For M&V so called "emotioning" is at the root of language, and beneath this is a whole bundle of ideas about the person, the person's particular placement in a particular environment, the person's relationship with her body, and the body's organization itself. According to M&A, as far as I understand them, structure does play a large part in what an organism can and can't do ("what an organism will do is limited by what it can do"), but its role as an observer is also critical. In the "Tree of Knowledge" they relate the story of the Bengali (Indian?) "Wolf Children" as an example of the role of the observer and the organism. The two girls in question of course were human physiologically, but because they were raised by wolves and had no other human contact, behaved as a wolfs (running on all fours, eating raw meat from the floor, rising with the opossums, etc) in all respects. After they were recovered (taken?), one of them died - M&V paint the death as a result of emotional separation from her wolf family as I remember - and the other learned to walk on two legs (but preferred all fours) and, I think, speak a little. This would indicate to me a fair deal of structural adaptability, rather than the determinism you suppose. Of course, there is plenty beyond language that is knowable. If you remember Hume's formulation of experience, i.e. we can't know anything until we've had an impression of it, it was pointed out (by who, I completely forget) that were we to look at a shaded color scheme and one shade was taken out, even if we had not had the experience of it, we would still notice it's absence. Is this any different for language? My point is not that language is unimportant for forming abstract thoughts, in fact I agree wholeheartedly! But it is not necessary for awareness - or cognition, if you prefer. When one acts with language, there is much else going on environmentally and biologically that shades production and understanding (even idiolect does not go far enough). To the extent that we have this recursive relationship with the environment, so too do we have this relationship with language, which is environmental, after all. That gives language an important position, no doubt, but not hegemony. Anyhow, it seems Steven has actually already said most of this, and much more eloquently. Best, Ben > Ben, > > I admit I'm no expert on M and V, but what reading I've done does not suggest > that they locate cognition in rocks, which is what your post suggests. The > focus, as far as I can tell, is on living systems and interactions within > nervous systems (brain required) which produce derivative, not literal, versions of > experience. Nothing here thus far to suggest there is no external reality. > Quite the opposite, in fact. Biology is a necessary component. They seem to > privilege its structural "verities." There is no conflict between what I've > said re: language and what Maturana and Varela say about interactive systems, > interdependent systems. Clearly these guys have been influenced big time by > Structuralism. > > In addition, their concept of "languaging" involves two or more people > occupying each other, "orienting" themselves in each other. An interesting analog > to what I've been saying about language, that it functions as an interactive > system, that meaning occurs within and not merely without or between the > elements of that system since each element is a crucial internal component of the > others. Signification depends on this interaction. I see nothing in M and V, > thus far, that does injury to what I've been saying. Their "redefinition" of > cognition seems quite in line with contemporary language theory. And so far I > see nothing to suggest that meaning occurs beyond semiotics. These guys do seem > to have appropriated the determinism that always lurked in Structuralism, > whereas the poststructuralist view emphasizes indeterminacy. Even Barthes came > over to Derrida's side. As I said, I'm not fluent enough in autopoiesis to > know what changes these guys made to their theory down the line, since the early > 1980s, if any. > > More recently, Chaos Theory is one good example of how any claim for > determinism can go awry. Actually, I never insisted on an external reality (in fact, > I insisted from my earliest posts on the subject that what, if anything, lies > beyond language is unknowable), but I see no reason to deny one. If M &V deny > one, I haven't come across that aspect of their theory yet. However, > Maturana and Varela do seem to offer a fixed structure (a la that old horse, > Structuralism) which controls activity. I can't say at this point if they consider the > fixity of such structures absolute or provisional. If the former, then I > can't agree. Structures evolve, and there is always something lurking in the > structure that cannot be accounted for, some resistance to the structure's > operation which both permits that operation and undermines it. But M's and V's > position is no doubt useful, especially for the social sciences. > > Of course I may be mistaken, not knowing as much about autopoiesis as I > should. Perhaps this interactive model has been transfigured into a claim that > computers "think." Come to "think" of it, rocks also have interactive systems > that both synchronically and diachronically exchange information, so to speak. > They're called electrons. But are they cognizant, i.e., aware, as your post > suggests? Don't they put people far far away for such ideas? Just kidding. > > I'd of course appreciate your pointing me toward what in M's and V's > discourse rejects an external reality. Nothing I've read thus far does. A claim for > knowledge as mediation (not literal) is not a dismissal of externality. > Still, M and V seem to play in the same general ballpark as the > structuralists/poststructuralists, so I feel fairly comfortable with what I've read thus far. > I've no argument with their ideas re: contextualization, for example. Far from > it. > > But consider that whatever anyone says about anything can only be said within > language's landscape of indeterminacy. M's and V's ideas are only possible > as inscriptions. It seems language always has the last word. > > Does this "seeming" Q.E.D. linguacentricity? I would argue that language > itself resists that position. After all, everything anyone says suggesting the > hegemony of language is meaningful only within language which also produces the > contraries to what is said. What is said--its meaningfulness--depends on > those contraries, carries those contraries within it. Identity dissolves in di > fference. Difference dissolves in identity. > > Thanks for your very interesting post. > > Best, > Bill > > WilliamJamesAustin.com > amazon.com > b&n.com > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 22:33:13 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: schwartzgk Subject: philly scene MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Will be in Philly late June through mid July. Interested in any/all po = events... Writer's House, etc? Would also like to read if there's any = way to get a word in edgewise. Also any music and art installations? Thank you, Gerald Schwartz schwartzgk@msn.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:11:19 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Safdie Joseph Subject: Re: most disturbing Comments: To: Joel Weishaus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Joel . . . Kirby . . . (and indirectly, Mark) . . . Please allow me to respectfully disagree with your most recent posts to the Buffalo Poetics List. I'm confused about many things -- among them, love, sex, poetry -- but one of the few things I'm not confused about (and have NEVER been confused about) has been the absolute idiocy, venality and corruption of the Baby Bush administration. "September 11" -- rather than change anything -- only cemented that idee fixe. (I can give you websites. If you don't know them already, I'd rather not.) (What was confusing was, you know, "Twin Peaks" -- in 1992 -- but since then ((and after just seeing the prequel on IFC}} -- not much, sorry.) What -- is it some central idea of post-modernism that one has to be confused now? These assholes MEAN IT! They're not the "loyal opposition" -- they're homicidal, ignorant, short-sighted, born-again EMPIRE MONGERS . . . this is serious business! "Oh, is it really that bad? Hasn't it been bad before? Can't I just go on blogging?" "Oh, the blogging community is SO misunderstood." Total Information Awareness has been changed to "Terrorist Information Awareness" . . . Oh! Great! It's OK now!!! I mean . . . you've read "Bernard Lewis"???? Kirby -- you seem like an intelligent young man (unless, of course, you used to live in Seattle and we've met) -- but really, there is absolutely NO reason to be confused about some things; our invasion of Iraq was absolutely, positively, morally, politically, aesthetically (and any other "ly" you can think of) . . . WRONG. "I am unequivocally opposed to the war against Iraq" -- Barry Watten. (And who, knowing anything about me, would ever think that I would ever be quoting Barry with approval?) Hi Barry. I liked your piece about the 60s. I'll write to you about it soon. The growing questions about no weapons of mass destruction (just surfacing *now*!) is a start, a nice little puncture wound in the so far bulletproof vest of Official Orthodoxy, but still only a very small impediment; Robert Byrd's recent speech (surely available on google now) about the truth eventually coming out still seems impossibly idealistic. How any conscious, sentient human can be "confused" about what's occurred so far this century is absolutely mind-boggling to me. To take just the recent invasion -- maybe the majority of the people in Iraq who are still alive will eventually gather together and form some sort of half-assed only moderately corrupt state with only minimal direction from its overlords -- it's possible. Would that prove us "right" to have done this? Do the ends . . . fellow Marxists . . . really justify the means? So Mark, everyone on this list isn't in such lock-step agreement as you surmise. As witness, these quotes . . . -----Original Message----- From: Joel Weishaus To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Sent: 5/30/03 3:27 PM Subject: Re: most disturbing "Kirby . . .You make some excellent points. We're all confused, but that's the point. People who think they know the right course for others are blind to themselves. Complexity is an attribute of the Postmodern God." "Mark, your point is very interesting here. The reason I'm not talking about the war is that I feel abysmally ignorant about that part of the world (as well as most other things). Since the WTC attack I've read Bernard Lewis, . . ." No Doubt Blind to Myself, Joe Safdie ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 00:01:45 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Re: dispersion MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Re: Jim Andrews - > > As far as peripherality is concerned, I think at least for myself, my work > > is central; I wouldn't be able to proceed without believing that. I think > > that is also true for a lot of writers. But I do feel as if technology and > > technological dispersion is going to swamp what passes for 'art' and for > > 'artworks,' no matter how advanced; > > let's slow down a bit, if we may, please, Alan. What is "technological > dispersion", or what are some of the primary factors in it? And in what > sense would they then "swamp what passes for 'art'"? Technological Dispersion - dispersing technologies like wireless PDA, cellphone, etc. People make their audiences as they go along; think of all the webcams out there for example. I see this networking - AIM etc. as well - as producing free-flowing literatures, videos, interactivities, far removed from artists. > > What is SMS? > 160 character Short Message Service for cellphones. > > the material in Rheingold's Smart Mobs, > > I have read you mention this several times recently. I take it this is a > good book? I find it useful summarizing a lot of people; he does well with Lawrence Lessig, WiFi, etc. > > > and > > the fact that wireless is, I believe, exponentially outpacing the growth > > of the Net itself. > > What are some of the key growths in wireless that are independent of the Net? Cellular in general, WiFi etc. Rheingold believes for better or worse that these technologies will outpace the Net, just as the Net has outpaced print. I tend to agree with him. I did a lot of in-town CB radio monitoring and analysis in the 80s, seeing new forms of communication appear that had nothing to do with language as we know it, for example repetitive signoffs that would run for 10-15 minutes. > So is the fate of Usenet an example of a more general type of fate > posited by Rheingold for public network technologies? Usenet is still > used, and in some ways is superior to email lists ('get next 100 > messages', for example, is something you can do with a Usenet client), > but it certainly isn't as widely used as it used to be. i suppose that > the spamming of the Usenet lists was a big factor here. Also, the > delivery mechanism is initiated when you connect to the group, rather > than the automatic delivery that happens with email lists. And the > Usenet groups are carried (or not) like 'channels' by one's Internet > Service Provider whereas there is no such involvement of the ISP in the > email lists to which one subscribes. Of course I agree with you here. I wasn't thinking of Rheingold - I'm not sure he goes into this. But it's something I've noticed repeatedly; it began with the phone and, for example, anti-phone-spam laws in some states like New York. > It seems that when we look at the growth of particular email lists, we > see them proceeding with some focus and concentration at first and then > they blur into a kind of 'dispersion' through sheer diversity of the > interests of those on the list. Into a wide range of announcements > (distribution)...people begin to talk at one another rather than with > one another. To the point where it loses its function as a publication > and becomes more like a huge bulletin board. It highly depends on the list. Cybermind has remained a community, even with several posters 'issuing' daily. No one talks at each other there. I'd say the same for imitationpoetics. There is a 'natural history' of lists posts that has been going around since the early 90s - I think it still holds. Lists are incredibly fluid, and their behavior depends on topic, moderation, community, list crises, governance back-channel and on-list, etc. > > Sorry for the meandering. I do think that in the long run, distribution > > and dispersion will becoming increasingly of import - and in a very > > un-McLuhanesque way. > > Un-McLuhanesque in what way? > Because it won't be the characteristics of the dispersion, but the characteristics of the residue, in part determined by community, that will create the quality and content of what's being distributed/dispersed. > > For myself, I've been thinking of the universe itself > > less in terms of state/process, and more as dispersion/filtering, and am > > trying to write to that effect. > > the universe itself. hmm. > I'm a part of it; it's home to me. I'm looking at the doors. Alan > ja > ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 00:02:03 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Alan Sondheim Subject: Philosophy Text: From Here to There MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Philosophy Text: From Here to There nHe `ala nei e m=C3=A2pu mai nei Na ka makani lau aheahe I lawe mai i ku`u = nui kino Ho`opumehana
i ku`u poli Hui: E ke hoa o ke ahe lau makani Halihali`ala o ku Poco dopo le 10, arriva l'allarme ai vigili del fuoco: un airone
=C3=A8 rimasto imprigionato con un'ala nei fili della luce. Mentre ... he! Ua nofo ifo nei i luga Tigilau ma fai atu,=E2=80=9D Moatu, i= a ta o ia
i le feau o lea ana ou le ala nei semanu ua e aia foi ma au=E2=80= =9D. =2E.. he! Ua nofo ifo nei i luga Tigilau ma fai atu," Moatu, ia ta o ia
i le feau o lea ana ou le ala nei semanu ua e aia foi ma au". =2E.. Mentre si scrivono queste noterelle sull=E2=80=99ala di plancia di un= a certa nave, gli ... la
sua attivit=C3=A0, sia tramite satelliti, sia sul terr= eno e nei siti limitrofi. o Ke Kai >(The Plants of the Sea) >Hapa > > >G C >He ho'oheno k=3DCB ike aku >C G
>Ke kai moana nu= i la >C G >Nui ke aloha e hi'i poi nei >D G > Moani Ke `Ala - by Prince William Pitt Leleiohoku. `Auhea o moani ke `ala Hoapili
o mi nei A he aha kau hana e p=C3=A2weo nei E ka makani Pu`ulena Hui: Kuhi au E manaomia la se pepa tusia mai le foma'i mo fualaau nei ma o loo lisi i Polokalame
Penefiti a Faletalavai (Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme) o le ala foi lena e ... nel Presidio ospedaliero di Popoli, da uno specialista ematologo presso i locali
del Day Hospital ematologico, al II=C2=B0 piano della nuova ala nei giorni di ... Longherone Alare. Il liste= llo che corre lungo tutto il bordo d'ala nei modelli
in cui l'intelaiatura =C3=A8 esterna (ad esempio, il Delta). Manica a Vento. ... Tra Italia e Sir= ia =C3=A8 il momento del colpo d'ala nei rapporti commerciali: noi
siamo i= l loro primo partner, ma il volume degli scambi =C3=A8 ancora modesto". = =2E.. combattente di qualit=C3=A0. Thuram =C3=A8 straripante, a volte =C3=A8 semb= rato
un'ala nei suoi poderosi sganciamenti offensivi. Del Piero ha ... E manaomia la se pepa tusia mai le foma'i mo fualaau nei ma o loo lisi i Polokalame
Penefiti a Faletalavai (Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme) o le ala foi lena e ... He loina n=C3=B6 paha ko ka po'e kahiko no ka h=C3=A4= l=C3=A4wai 'ana me ka malihini,
ua '=C3=A4ke'a 'ia na'e kona ala e ili mai ai io k=C3=A4kou nei. ... o ia i kona makua i ka =CA=BB=C4=AB =CA=BBana aku, &quo= t;Ka pou, ka pou nei, e wehe a=CA=BBe! =CA=BBO au
=CA=BBo T=C5=8Dngaiwhare me M=C4= =81tuaiwhare." Ua wehe mai k=C4=93ia pou nei. =CA=BBO ke ala Minisita o Mark Gosche faapea= le tamaitai Minisita o Marian Hobbs.O Gosche ma Hobbs
na finau malosi i le malo mo le tupe lea ua faatautaia ai nei le ala leo.E ... Per Mike Dunleavy e' stata una stagione buia , chiuso nella posizione di ala nei
Warriors dall'intoccabile Jamison ,e poco considerato dal suo coach Musselman ... O galuega autu nei faa leoleo: Tausiga o le filemu; Lagolago tagata lautele
pe a moomia galuega faaleoleo; Leoleoina o ala tetele; Puipui ma maitauina ... A'o agai atu Vatia mo le avanoa muamua e ala i le pate, sa le fa'afaigata foi i
la latou au le au malosi le nei a Alao, ona o le isi lea o au iloga i le fa ... a ua ho=CA=BB=C4=81=CA=BBo = ihola ua Ka=CA=BBulu nei i kona ikaika. =CA=BBOlelo akula =CA=BBo Hakalanilewa
i= =C4=81 Ka=CA=BBulu, "=CA=BB=C4=80wa=CA=BBa ia." E =CA=BBu=CA=BBumi iho ana k=C4=93l= =C4=81 i ko ia ala ikaika pa < Ai ke k=C3=A4'ala'ala 'ana a'eo ua keiki nei a nui, 'a'ole na'ei hiki i "ka nui e 'auamo
ai i ke keiki i ke kua," i lilo mai ai 'o Keawe i hoa '=C3=B6lelo no n=C3=A4 verano kuindi stabilite tre facili regol= e da rikordare: il ditongo "sc" ver=C3=A0 sostituito
kon la letera "x" (j=C3=A0 kara ala patria nei nomi indimentikabi Cala del Port= o domina dall'alto la baia, nei luoghi da favola, fra pini verde smeraldo
e una spiagia d'oro, a cui D'Annunzio diede il nome di Punta Ala per la ... Ke ala maila =C3=BFo Kamehameha, lohe maila =C3=BFo ia i ka = I n=C3=A4n=C3=A4 mai ko Pele hana, e
k=C3=BC ... Hele ihola a ma ke po=C3= =94o o l=C5=A0ua nei, k=C5=B8 ihola ua mai=C3=94a nei hele o le suavai e ala lea I le faaopo= opo I ai o ni meafaigaluega mo le potu suesue
ma aoaoina atili le aufaigaluega o lea vaega I le faaaogaina o nei masini. ... Molti autori riferiscono che una differenza fondamentale =C3=A8 data dalle copritrici inferiori dell'ala: nei giovani maschi sarebbero scure, nelle giovani femmine ... tre punti: 33%, 9 su 11 nei tiri liberi: 82%, 12 rimbalzi in difesa, 2 in attacco,
15 palle recuperate, 19 palle perse, 1 assist: Valutazione 30, l=E2=80=99ala n. 7 ... Kepakemapa 1992. Michael Jordan. I k= =C4=93l=C4=81 Nowemapa aku nei, ua hele ka =CA=BBohana
o Maka=CA=BBala Rawlins i Kale= poni no ka hui =CA=BBana me Michael Jordan. ... una certa riserva di velocit=C3=A0 = prima di entrare in virata sono numerose, e giocano
ruoli differenti nei diversi velivoli. In virata l'ala interna vola pi=C3=B9 ... i, e ala e na p= ua E koi mai `oukou i na mea e pono ai, Rise up Hawaiians, rise up
descendants Claim your rightful things. Hu mai ke aloha no keia `aina nei Mai ... Nui n=C4=81 mea a Kumu Lein=C4=81=CA=BBala e ho=CA=BBol=C4=81l=C4= =81 nei e hana ma k=C4=93ia kahua
hou. Wahi =C4=81na, "Makemake au e a=CA=BBoi ke kula holo=CA= =BBoko=CA=BBai =2E.. ___ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 21:20:56 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: CE Putnam Subject: Re: Seattle SubText reading * slug-o-house In-Reply-To: <268868.1054295467@enggradmac.fal.buffalo.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes we are Subtext and we are still here (yeah it's raining right now) & have been fwding our press releases / reading announcements to the poetics list (most of the time). The readings occur on the first wednesday of every month year round. We are celebrating our 9th anniversary on July 2nd. If your in town on the 4th of June -- please do come to see Allison Cobb, Jen Coleman, and Sarah Mangold shiver the Hugo House timbers. You can find out more on our newly designed website at: http://www.speakeasy.org/subtext ---a version of our 2002 Subtext Annual should be on line soon + extras.....-- If you would like to be add / change your e-mail address for our events distribution list send me your old (if you know it) and your new e-mail and I will adjust it for you. Most Hoogily! + Onward.... CE Putnam --- Poetics List Administration wrote: > it seems when my address changed from .org to .net > the list didnt take me. > can this be altered? id like to be able to inform > the list what's happenning in the NorthWest - as in > the below item. i assume/hope this wont be a hassle, > but if it is i appreciate your efforts greatly. > thank you for your assistance > > > Subtext continues its monthly series of experimental > writing with readings by > Allison Cobb, Jen Coleman, and Sarah Mangold at the > Richard Hugo House on > Wednesday, June 4, 2003. > > Suggested donations for admission are $5 at the door > on the evening of the > performance. The reading starts at 7:30pm. > > Allison Cobb is author The LIttle Box Book > (Situation), The J Poems (BabySelf),Polar Bear and > Desert Fox (BabySelf) and One-foot A History Play > (BabySelf). Her full-length collection Born Two is > forthcoming this from Chax Press. She lives in > Brooklyn, NY. > > Jen Coleman is a poet in NYC and co-editor of the > poetry journal POMPOM. She's > also co-author of the chapbook Communal Bebop Canto > with CE Putnam and Allison > Cobb, and author of the chapbook Propinquity. You > can see her work online at > http://www.theeastvillage.com/v12.htm > > Raised in Oklahoma, Sarah Mangold received an MFA > from San Francisco State > University. She is the author of Household > Mechanics, selected by C.D. Wright > for the 2001 New Issues Poetry Prize. She is also > author of a chapbook, Blood > Substitutes (Potes & Poets, 1998), and the editor of > the Seattle-based magazine > Bird Dog. > > > The future Subtext 2003 schedule is: > > July 2 - Subtext 9th Anniversary Group Reading > August 6 - Joseph Donahue (Seattle and elsewhere) & > TBA > Sept 3 - David Perry (Brooklyn) & C. E. Putnam > > For info on these & other Subtext events, see our > website: > http://www.speakeasy.org/subtext. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 00:18:33 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Mark Weiss Subject: Re: Stein in the NYer In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Nope, the New York Review of Books tops (bottoms) them all. Witht the one virtue that they rarely publish more than two poems in an issue. Mark At 12:56 PM 5/30/2003 -0700, you wrote: >The only magazine that runs more atrocious poetry than the New Yorker >(discounting Ashbery and a few anomalous pieces that slip in) is The Nation. >Granted they often have decent book reviews, but the poems are >embarassing--this is what the politically progressive and radical readership >has to eat as poetry. There should be dietary laws.... > >Gloria Frym > > >On Fri, 30 May 2003 13:18:19 -0400 > Steven Shoemaker wrote: >>I agree with what you say here. When I was in college I used to get the >>NYer just for the amazing Pauline Kael film reviews. Then after she left, >>and as I got deeper into poetry, I boycotted the mag for years on >>principle. A few years a ago a good subscription deal, along with a move >>to a city, brought me back, and now I'm a regular reader, even tho the mag >>often infuriates me. What's really astounding, as you suggest, is that >>some of the political and cultural writing in the mag is quite good >>(Hersch is especially astute on politics), and even some of the fiction is >>strong, while the poetry editing remains absolutely, unbelievably >>atrocious. So yes, there have to be some intelligent readers of the mag >>to whom one might be able to speak with an informed letter (or whole bunch >>of >>letters) on the subject of poetry. If this happened often enough, maybe >>they'd figure out they were doing something wrong... >>Steve >>On Fri, 30 May 2003 mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: >> >>>Bob, For my money Alice Quinn is the worst poetry editor on the planet -- >>>she >>>chooses absolutely atrocious poems, and the situation is only made worse by >>>the >>>fact that she'll occasionally let a big name poet like Ashbery slide through >>>(which I don't hold against Ashbery incidentally - why not have the NYer's >>>readers read him instead of some crappy poem by Pinsky et al, whatever the >>>bad >>>editorial intentions). I myself am not so smug about the NYer as a whole. >>>I >>>think its a halfway decent mag with many intelligent readers -- some of >>>their >>>writers (Seymour Hirsch, Schjeldahl, Anthony Lane, Jon Lee Anderson come to >>>mind) are pretty damn good. So why not try to let the readership know that >>>they shouldn't take Malcolm's word on Stein? Language is a site of social >>>contestation. I'm not content to preach to my little choir of good poetry >>>lovers. I suppose my experience teaching Stein plays into this -- students >>>who >>>have never been exposed to anything like Stein sometimes end up loving her >>>and >>>when this happens they walk away with a very different relationship to their >>>own language. Much more so than Malcolm's blunt critique of Stein's >>>supposed >>>fascist sympathies, I was put off by her disdain for the writing -- which >>>she >>>reads as a simple attention-grab by the simple-minded overconfident baby in >>>the >>>bourgeois family. Why should those NYer readers unfamiliar with Stein not >>>be >>>informed that their getting a stupid, narrow-minded portrait here? Stein >>>herself treated poetry as action and my writing to the NYer was done in that >>>spirit. >>> >>>-m. >>> >>> >>> >>>Quoting Bob Grumman : >>> >>> > But, Mike, why on earth should anyone care what the >>> > New Yorker has to say about poetry? When was the last >>> > time it published any poetry or criticism on any >>> > poetry by a living author that uses techniques not in >>> > wide use by 1978 at the very latest? >>> > >>> > --Bob G. >>> > >>> > --- mmagee@DEPT.ENGLISH.UPENN.EDU wrote: >>> > > Hi all, I'm pasting below a leter to the editor I >>> > > just sent to the New Yorker >>> > > regarding Janet Malcolm's insipid piece on Gertrude >>> > > Stein. The "outing" of >>> > > Stein as a fascist sympathizer dispenses with all >>> > > historical and personal >>> > > nuance (what must she think of Pound?!) and the >>> > > discussion of Stein's writing >>> > > is completely idiotic. I try to be a bit more >>> > > politic in the letter itself but >>> > > that's the upshot. If anyone else was as annoyed as >>> > > I was reading this (I >>> > > could barely get through the damn thing) I'd >>> > > encourage you to send your own >>> > > letter to themail@newyorker.com. If enough people >>> > > send they'll have to print >>> > > at least one I'd imagine. Suddenly Alice Quinn's >>> > > incomprehensible tenure as >>> > > Poetry Editor is starting to make more sense! -m. >>> > > >>> > > **************** >>> > > Dear Editor, >>> > > >>> > > Whatever useful biographical information is >>> > > contained in Janet Malcolm?s >>> > > "Gertrude Stein?s War" (June 2nd) is marred by her >>> > > bizarrely vindictive tone >>> > > and transparent dislike for Stein?s writing. >>> > > Malcolm describes Stein as simply >>> > > "oozing" the thousands of pages she produced over a >>> > > lifetime, relying on a >>> > > classic misogynist stereotype regarding women >>> > > writers (Hawthorne chose the word >>> > > "scribbling"). William Carlos Williams and Ralph >>> > > Ellison considered her work >>> > > brilliant, as do a host of vital contemporary >>> > > American poets including Susan >>> > > Howe, John Ashbery, Robert Creeley and Harryette >>> > > Mullen. Malcolm simply lumps >>> > > all who appreciate Stein?s writing under the heading >>> > > "new Stein critics," the >>> > > better to dismiss them summarily. Surely the New >>> > > Yorker?s readers deserve >>> > > better than the facile innuendo and >>> > > pop-psychologizing that mark this article?s >>> > > every page. Malcolm calls "the arrogant desire to >>> > > impose a narrative on the >>> > > stray bits and pieces of a life" a "crucial >>> > > biographer?s trait." Well, Malcolm >>> > > certainly has this trait in spades. >>> > > >>> > > Sincerely, >>> > > >>> > > Michael Magee >>> > > Rhode Island School of Design >>> > > Providence, RI >>> > >>> > >>> > __________________________________ >>> > Do you Yahoo!? >>> > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). >>> > http://calendar.yahoo.com >>> > ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 06:52:59 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Harry Nudel Subject: My 57th Birthday... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit for L... thru thick & thin to the end my friend .... don't know much 'bout history don't know much 'bout geography don't know much 'bout reality .... in an imaginary chinese city an imaginary chinese poet writes an imaginary poem 'bout you .... no spoonbread babes packed into the bathtub .... only mom lvs a me .... po sniper streets swept clean of language .... angry woman lucy lu makes the world safe for charlie's angels .... an old jew man sees the folds of tuckless tummy o paradise 'neath .... stars blink in & out... drn/drn.. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:31:50 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: most disturbing In-Reply-To: <003301c326fa$a3fc3440$74fdfc83@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" > >Even if Iraq heals, America is not on a path to heal itself, but on one >that, daily, is creating more internal, and external, bleeding. We need a >revolution in consciousness first, in ethics, then, before politics can >begin make sense. > >-Joel I have the distinct feeling that the US is on the way out. The USAmerican Century is over. Yr president will be recalled as the quasi-human who started the end game. -- George Bowering East of Kalamazoo Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 13:53:44 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: most disturbing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit { I have the distinct feeling that the US is on the way out. The { USAmerican Century is over. Yr president will be recalled as the { quasi-human who started the end game. { -- { George Bowering That sort of attitude just isn't very helpful, George. Hal You are leaving the American Sector. Vous sortez du Secteur Américain. Sie verlassen den Amerikanischen Sektor. Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:26:12 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joel Weishaus Subject: Re: most disturbing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Even if Iraq heals, America is not on a path to heal itself, but on one > >that, daily, is creating more internal, and external, bleeding. We need a > >revolution in consciousness first, in ethics, then, before politics can > >begin make sense. > > > >-Joel > > I have the distinct feeling that the US is on the way out. The > USAmerican Century is over. Yr president will be recalled as the > quasi-human who started the end game. > -- > George Bowering There's an interesting piece in the current (June) Harper's, "The Last Americans: Environmental Collapse and the End of Civilization," by Jared Diamond, a professor of geography and environmental health services at UCLA. He speaks to ancient civilizations and how they collapsed because of their depletion of their environment, and relates this to our current situation. -Joel ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:38:16 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kazim Ali Subject: Re: most disturbing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Fanny Howe writes "Human is God's secret name" Consciousness first indeed. But there is no "endgame" only "game" USAmerican century is not "over" "Century" is over "over" is over Ram Dass: "Be here now" Some Sufi Sheik (I can't remember his name): "Every verse of the Quraan has an internal aspect and an external aspect. Every place of physical definition implies internal ascent." Iraq will heal when people turn in to heal and not out. America is on a path to heal itself because this morning I decided to heal myself. Lot of other people made the same intention. Though Hecuba fell down on all fours and howled like a dog and cursed Odysseus who brought news of the death of her last son, Penelope went to the weaving room in secret every night and unraveled and unraveled. Poet is the weaver who weaves and unweaves. We should not say "quasi-human" to anybody. Even George Bush has grace, insecurity, personal fear, love for his daughters. Let US be on the way out. Let nations be on the way out. Uranium worm its way back into the ground. What is the difference to the brutal human heart? I am alone in my apartment now listening to the rain fall. I am going to act with grace today. The sound of rain reminds me what Yoko Ono sang "we are all water" --- George Bowering wrote: > > > >Even if Iraq heals, America is not on a path to > heal itself, but on one > >that, daily, is creating more internal, and > external, bleeding. We need a > >revolution in consciousness first, in ethics, then, > before politics can > >begin make sense. > > > >-Joel > > I have the distinct feeling that the US is on the > way out. The > USAmerican Century is over. Yr president will be > recalled as the > quasi-human who started the end game. > -- > George Bowering > East of Kalamazoo > Fax 604-266-9000 ===== ==== WAR IS OVER (if you want it) (e-mail president@whitehouse.gov) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:00:49 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Joy Arbor Subject: Re: most disturbing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have the distinct feeling that the US is on the way out. The USAmerican Century is over. Yr president will be recalled as the quasi-human who started the end game. -- George Bowering East of Kalamazoo Fax 604-266-9000 George, You are clearly an optimist. If we Americans could stop thinking of ourselves as top dog, both global watchdog (however ridiculous) and morally superior to everyone else in terms of human rights and others, then maybe we could start really healing the very real rifts in this country -- maybe we really could have a country of the people, by the people, for the people. Maybe. I'm not so sure. But I'm sure that this attitude of the American Century gets in our way. So many people out of work!!!!! Joy, who has been accused on being a pessimist ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:49:02 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: tom bell Subject: theory of practice of EEG recordings of poetry MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT from another list but raises some 'language' questions? -------- Original Message -------- From: William Benzon Subject: EEG & Poetry To: PSYARTS CPoeticos, Here are some notes I've made toward getting a handle on how poetry flows in the brain. I'd appreciate any comments you might have. Thanks, BB ============================ Time, Consciousness, and Poetry Let us start with Walter Freeman¹s observation that consciousness occurs in discrete moments lasting on the order of 100-130 msec. Each moment consists in electrical activity that spans an entire hemisphere. The moments in the two hemipsheres are independent of one another. In order to estimate the number of moments of consciousness that transpire during ³Kubla Khan² I read the poem aloud several times and timed my reading using a stop watch. The table below show six timings. The first column is the duration of the reading in seconds; the second column is the number of moments at the rate of 7/second. seconds moments 137 959 128 896 129 903 142 994 139 973 134 938 Thus we have between 900 and 1000 moments of consciousness needed to perform ³Kubla Khan.² Actually, it¹s double that, since each hemisphere has its own stream of moments. So what? What I think is that it¹s reasonable to think about what those moments are needed for. Let¹s start with Wallace Chafe¹s Discourse, Consciousness, and Time. He talks about the substantive intonation unit as a basic unit of discourse. His notion is that the (fragment of an) idea to be rendered into speech is present in consciousness at the beginning of the intonation unit. It is then rendered into speech in one all-but-irrevocable action that is about five words long in his sample. You can abort the rendering for whatever reason, resulting in a fragmentary unit. Otherwise, the idea is rendered into speech and we¹re ready for another one ­ or to relinquish conversational turn. As the substantive intonation unit is roughly equivalent to a line of poetry, I will simply refer to a line. ³Kubla Khan² consists of 54 lines; assuming Chafe is correct, that accounts for 5% of our conscious moments. Further, KK has a rich rhyme scheme, requiring attention to line ends. Let¹s say that¹s another 5% accounted for. Further, while line beginnings and endings are distant from one another on the page, they are, of course, cheek-by-jowl in performance. So, we¹ve got a lot of obligatory action at relatively fixed points in the poem (though KK uses a variety of line lengths). Let us get a reasonably skilled reader to recite the poem while hooked up to Freeman¹s EEG machine. We¹ll record the reading and the EEG. Will those line breaks exhibit a distinctive signature in the EEG? I do not know, but it¹s something to look for. But there¹s surely more. For example, consider these lines, from the middle of the first movement: And from this chasm, with ceaseless turmoil seething As if this earth in fast thick pants were breathing, A mighty fountain momently was forced: Amid whose swift half-intermitted burst Huge fragements vaulted like rebounding hail, Of chaffy grain beneath the thresher's flail: And 'mid these dancing rocks at once and ever It flung up momently the sacred river. As Reuven Tsur and I have independently observed, syntax and rhyme are out of synch here. Synctactically we have two triplets followed by a couplet; but the rhyme is four rhymed couplets. This is the only place in the first movement where syntax and rhyme get out of synch. The second movement exhibits the same form, a middle section of desynchronization flanked by two synchronized sections. Would this pattern show up in the EEG? Recall that Freeman has observed that the two hemispheres have independent moments of consciousness. One might speculate that the left hemisphere is handling language syntax while the right is dealing with rhyme (and other sound patterning). What happens to the relationship between the hemispheres as Coleridge plays with syntax/sound synchrony? Now let¹s do the same with ³This Lime-Tree Bower My Prison.² LTB is a bit longer than KK, and consists entirely of unrhymed pentameter. Would its EEG signature thus be distinctly different from KKs? Again, I do not know. Surely these different phenomena involve different neural dynamics. That¹s not the issue. The issue is whether or not we can detect some of these differences in EEG recordings. It¹s rather like trying to deduce the mechanical features of an engine by listening to the noise it makes in different operating conditions. The noise is simply a side-effect of its operation, but it is systematically correlated with engine events. If you can¹t look directly at those engine events, then listen to the noise. The point of using poetry in EEG investigation of brain function is that it is highly structured and thus more likely to provoke distinct electrical signatures. The point of comparing KK traces with LTB traces is that they are so distinctly different that we have some reasonable hope of being able to related differences in EEG signature to differences in the poems. ================== Benzon, W. L. (1985). "Articulate Vision: A Structuralist Reading of "Kubla Khan."" Language and Style 18: 3-29. Chafe, W. (1995). Discourse, Consciousness, and Time: The Flow and Displacement of Conscious Experience in Speaking and Writing. Chicago, University of Chicago Press. Freeman, W. J. (1999). Consciousness, Intentionality and Causality. Reclaiming Cognition. R. Núñez and W. J. Freeman. Thoverton, Imprint Academic: 143-172. Freeman, W. J. (1999). How Brains Make Up Their Minds. London, Weidenfeld and Nicholson. Tsur, R. (1987). The Road to "Kubla Khan": A Cognitive Approach. Jerusalem, Israel Science Publishers. Freeman, W. J. (1999a). Consciousness, Intentionality and Causality. Reclaiming Cognition. R. Núñez and W. J. Freeman. Thoverton, Imprint Academic: 143-172. Freeman, W. J. (1999b). How Brains Make Up Their Minds. London, Weidenfeld and Nicholson. -- William L. Benzon 708 Jersey Avenue, Apt. 2A Jersey City, NJ 07302 201 217-1010 "You won't get a wild heroic ride to heaven on pretty little sounds."--George Ives Mind-Culture Coevolution: http://asweknowit.ca/evcult/ tom bell Write for the Heath of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 13:07:47 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: bill marsh Subject: Re: theory of practice of EEG recordings of poetry In-Reply-To: <011a01c327be$74d82e20$07e63644@rthfrd01.tn.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable tom, for what it's worth, i counted 1,132 moments of consciousness in reading through this rather fascinating report -- about the same as what it takes for me to get through an entire William Saffire article in the Times magazine bill -----Original Message----- From: UB Poetics discussion group [mailto:POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU] On Behalf Of tom bell Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 2:49 PM To: POETICS@LISTSERV.BUFFALO.EDU Subject: theory of practice of EEG recordings of poetry from another list but raises some 'language' questions? -------- Original Message -------- From: William Benzon Subject: EEG & Poetry To: PSYARTS CPoeticos, Here are some notes I've made toward getting a handle on how poetry flows in the brain. I'd appreciate any comments you might have. Thanks, BB =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D Time, Consciousness, and Poetry Let us start with Walter Freeman=B9s observation that consciousness = occurs in discrete moments lasting on the order of 100-130 msec. Each moment consists in electrical activity that spans an entire hemisphere. The moments in the two hemipsheres are independent of one another. In order to estimate the number of moments of consciousness that transpire during =B3Kubla Khan=B2 I read the poem aloud several times and timed my = reading using a stop watch. The table below show six timings. The first column is the duration of the reading in seconds; the second column is the number of moments at the rate of 7/second. seconds moments 137 959 128 896 129 903 142 994 139 973 134 938 Thus we have between 900 and 1000 moments of consciousness needed to perform =B3Kubla Khan.=B2 Actually, it=B9s double that, since each = hemisphere has its own stream of moments. So what? What I think is that it=B9s reasonable to think about what those moments are needed for. Let=B9s start with Wallace Chafe=B9s Discourse, Consciousness, and Time. = He talks about the substantive intonation unit as a basic unit of discourse. His notion is that the (fragment of an) idea to be rendered into speech is present in consciousness at the beginning of the intonation unit. It is then rendered into speech in one all-but-irrevocable action that is about five words long in his sample. You can abort the rendering for whatever reason, resulting in a fragmentary unit. Otherwise, the idea is rendered into speech and = we=B9re ready for another one =AD or to relinquish conversational turn. As the substantive intonation unit is roughly equivalent to a line of poetry, I will simply refer to a line. =B3Kubla Khan=B2 consists of 54 lines; assuming Chafe is correct, that accounts for 5% of our conscious moments. Further, KK has a rich rhyme scheme, requiring attention to line ends. Let=B9s say that=B9s another = 5% accounted for. Further, while line beginnings and endings are distant from one another on the page, they are, of course, cheek-by-jowl in performance. So, we=B9ve got a lot of obligatory action at relatively fixed points in the poem (though KK uses a variety of line lengths). Let us get a reasonably skilled reader to recite the poem while hooked up to Freeman=B9s EEG machine. We=B9ll record the reading and the EEG. = Will those line breaks exhibit a distinctive signature in the EEG? I do not know, but it=B9s something to look for. But there=B9s surely more. For example, consider these lines, from the middle of the first movement: And from this chasm, with ceaseless turmoil seething As if this earth in fast thick pants were breathing, A mighty fountain momently was forced: Amid whose swift half-intermitted burst Huge fragements vaulted like rebounding hail, Of chaffy grain beneath the thresher's flail: And 'mid these dancing rocks at once and ever It flung up momently the sacred river. As Reuven Tsur and I have independently observed, syntax and rhyme are out of synch here. Synctactically we have two triplets followed by a couplet; but the rhyme is four rhymed couplets. This is the only place in the first movement where syntax and rhyme get out of synch. The second movement exhibits the same form, a middle section of desynchronization flanked by two synchronized sections. Would this pattern show up in the EEG? Recall that Freeman has observed that the two hemispheres have independent moments of consciousness. One might speculate that the left hemisphere is handling language syntax while the right is dealing with rhyme (and other sound patterning). What happens to the relationship between the hemispheres as Coleridge plays with syntax/sound synchrony? Now let=B9s do the same with =B3This Lime-Tree Bower My Prison.=B2 LTB = is a bit longer than KK, and consists entirely of unrhymed pentameter. Would its EEG signature thus be distinctly different from KKs? Again, I do not know. Surely these different phenomena involve different neural dynamics. That=B9s not the issue. The issue is whether or not we can detect some = of these differences in EEG recordings. It=B9s rather like trying to deduce the mechanical features of an engine by listening to the noise it makes in different operating conditions. The noise is simply a side-effect of its operation, but it is systematically correlated with engine events. If you can=B9t look directly at those engine events, then listen to the noise. The point of using poetry in EEG investigation of brain function is that it is highly structured and thus more likely to provoke distinct electrical signatures. The point of comparing KK traces with LTB traces is that they are so distinctly different that we have some reasonable hope of being able to related differences in EEG signature to differences in the poems. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Benzon, W. L. (1985). "Articulate Vision: A Structuralist Reading of "Kubla Khan."" Language and Style 18: 3-29. Chafe, W. (1995). Discourse, Consciousness, and Time: The Flow and Displacement of Conscious Experience in Speaking and Writing. Chicago, University of Chicago Press. Freeman, W. J. (1999). Consciousness, Intentionality and Causality. Reclaiming Cognition. R. N=FA=F1ez and W. J. Freeman. Thoverton, Imprint Academic: 143-172. Freeman, W. J. (1999). How Brains Make Up Their Minds. London, Weidenfeld and Nicholson. Tsur, R. (1987). The Road to "Kubla Khan": A Cognitive Approach. Jerusalem, Israel Science Publishers. Freeman, W. J. (1999a). Consciousness, Intentionality and Causality. Reclaiming Cognition. R. N=FA=F1ez and W. J. Freeman. Thoverton, Imprint Academic: 143-172. Freeman, W. J. (1999b). How Brains Make Up Their Minds. London, Weidenfeld and Nicholson. -- William L. Benzon 708 Jersey Avenue, Apt. 2A Jersey City, NJ 07302 201 217-1010 "You won't get a wild heroic ride to heaven on pretty little sounds."--George Ives Mind-Culture Coevolution: http://asweknowit.ca/evcult/ tom bell Write for the Heath of It course at http://www.suite101.com/course.cfm/17413/seminar not yet a crazy old man hard but not yet hardening of the art ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 17:58:07 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: George Bowering Subject: Re: most disturbing In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" >{ I have the distinct feeling that the US is on the way out. The >{ USAmerican Century is over. Yr president will be recalled as the >{ quasi-human who started the end game. >{ -- >{ George Bowering > >That sort of attitude just isn't very helpful, George. Helpful to whom? I wasnt trying to be helpful. -- George Bowering East of Kalamazoo Fax 604-266-9000 ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 17:17:59 -0400 Reply-To: olsonjk@delhi.edu Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Kirby Olson Organization: SUNY Delhi Subject: Re: language theory MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear Bill Austin, It may be true that I have rocks in my head for trying to express anything but the party line in regard to Iraq (and the rocks would therefore be a form of consciousness), but I wanted to get back to a more peaceful topic with a more civil interlocuter (thanks to Kazim Ali and Mark Weiss and the others willing to provide room for discussion, though!). I was thinking about the Principia Mathematica, which I've never read, but a math scholar once told me on a plane trip that what Russell was attempting to do was to verify, or prove, that one plus one equals two. After ten years he realized he couldn't do it, and the way this was glossed was that Russell realized there was no such thing as two of any one thing. So, even two Eberhard #2 pencils, fresh out of the factory, are not the same. They occupy different points in time and space, and they will have different futures: different kids chewing on them, and so on. So from this I got thinking -- that even basic math doesn't really describe the world but is dependent on stereotypes. "One" being a stereotype. Like, there are all kinds of different shades of blue (I didn't quite understand the shading issue, but missed the original post) but we still say the word blue to cover them when we say the "blue" car just went past. Meanwhile, Eyes are for looking, Charles Olson keeps saying. Then he says on p. 40 of the Maximus Poems (this seems to be a common text to most people reading on this board?): "There may be no more names than there are objects There can be no more verbs than there are actions." I think what he means by this is that words come AFTER objects, or AFTER actions, and name them. So the real is first. And eyes are for looking out of, means that there's something out there. He keeps throughout the poem talking about the sea, and sailors, and going back to Homer, and trying to even get before that, to a time when action was the thing. I think this is also what he's trying to get at with his interest in SPACE. Pound was working in a similar vein (I think) when in the ABC of Reading he was talking about how Louis Agassiz wanted his students to really look at a sunfish, and not be trapped in the verbiage that they had inherited, but to keep looking at it, and to see its endless complexity. (Perhaps this is even Keats' negative capability?) Holding the mind open as long as possible instead of jumping to an easy conclusion to get rid of the problems of what I guess would be called today cognitive dissonance. The little paragraph is on the bottom of p. 17 of the ABC. It's a very strong paradigm that sticks with you, and I'm sure you remember it, but I'm typing it in for anybody whose copy is in storage: "No man is equipped for modern thinking until he has understood the anecdote of Agassiz and the fish: A post-graduate student equipped with honours and diplomas went to Agassiz to receive the final and finishing touches. The great man offered him a small fish and told him to describe it. Post-Graduate Student: 'That's only a sunfish.' Agassiz: 'I know that. Write a description of it.' After a few minutes the student returned with the description of the Ichthus Heliodiplodokus, or whatever term is used to conceal the common sunfish from vulgar knowledge, family of Heliichtherinkus, etc., as found in textbooks of the subject. Agassiz again told the student to describe the fish. The student produced a four-page essay. Agassiz then told him to look at the fish. At the end of three weeks the fish was in an advanced state of decomposition, but the student knew something about it." (Chapter One 16-17). It seems to me that what both Pound and Olson are saying is that there's something outside of language, and that the first thing is to look and experience, and only then language begins. Perhaps they're mistaken. Or perhaps I'm mistaken about them. Maybe even Agassiz was mistaken? Or maybe Pound misunderstood Agassiz. It just seems to me that words are useful stereotypes that can help us begin to communicate across the incommunicability of actual experience, but that words are a kind of simple tool developed by a still relatively simple species, in order to understand and communicate about a very complex world. We're so simple. I feel that almost everything remains a mystery, and will remain. We're like cats watching a movie, and trying to get the plot. By the way are you related to the important British philosopher of language whose name if I recall is J.L. Austin? -- Kirby O. ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:23:08 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Christine Murray Subject: most disturbing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Hi, All-- For an interesting twist on new ways to raise consciousness toward questions of ethics and political action, has anyone else had a look around this website? www.probush.com/traitor.htm See details at end of this list: maybe more candidates should be nominated for this distinction... Chris Murray ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 11:43:44 -1000 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Susan Webster Schultz Subject: sondheim in hawaiian Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Alan--I'm intrigued as to why you chose a Hawaiian text for your Philosophy and Colonialism piece. Can you say more about this piece, what the source text was, why you chose it, why you thought it important to include the Hawaiian (which I'm presuming you don't speak) and so on. I'm intrigued that it begins with the word "hanai," since I'm very interested in native Hawaiian hanai practice. aloha, Susan ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 14:47:18 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: kari edwards Subject: limbo things in violation In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v552) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable limbo things in violation nights chain down=09 blank -or this is your ticket to again -or =09 a manual back listed =09 =09 =09 =09 Once upon a time - impossible in the land of night X X X the last boat just sailed we have the most covered and = covered the most: one out of 100,000, will develop one of some kind of : =09 :::::melanoma:::: ::::conastoga::::: :::::induction = complex:::::: reductive spirit for a new mall - is worth =93s=94 it all started before then A SNAP a JIG =09 and freeze tag preshrunk obviously there was another way a beginning = beginning something before start = go =09 your it run for your life =09 canned meat good perhaps? =09 packaged cheese? =09 enormous gaps and holes not the gap everyone post- = post- office goes on about but those fissures that appear & furniture getting the crap bet out you that's why. what else? a death or two new days - replace other things =09 (a marching band) =09 = multiplication list with various particle options =09 boxes and more boxes we have become - one of the plural ones - on happy days... this is your time we=92ll have a parade a carpal tunnel fast =09 noise vibrates geometry was and sex two bits plus a twenty plus tax plus a tip half way there - can I fill your glass? claw the rest around and just below sight =09 I never meet a . . . . . = . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. .=20 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .I didn=92t (translate later) after a while stir we have any size you want no real names used just incidents got confused? =09 think of ducks sweeping the forest from their wings= ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 16:43:31 -0700 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: laurie macrae Subject: Luciano Berio MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii In 1971, I think, Berio came to Santa Fe to oversee the premier of his work "opera" at the Santa Fe Opera. With him came the company of the Open Theater, the next wave, so to speak, of the Living Theater with many of the same participants. The Open Theater production featured some of it's most famous creations, the Monster being the one that comes to mind. In the middle of the opera a group of terrified children huddled on the stage and cried and moaned. The highly conventional Santa Fe Opera audience was appalled. People stood and yelled at the stage, threw things, and walked out in droves. It was a great moment in music and politics. Several members of the Open Theater, most notably Lee Worley and Dale Whitt, stayed on in Santa Fe and formed a new company, "Wit's End", of which I was a member. We performed for roughly 5 years, with a shifting crew, doing increasingly anarchic improvisation-based theater. The need to eat meant we all worked day jobs and eventually couldn't stay awake long enough to keep doing our highly physical brand of theater.. "Opera" was our inspiration. Berio's powerful, mind-bending music cried out for controled anarchy. Laurie Macrae __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 21:40:20 -0500 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Gabriel Gudding Subject: Fwd: Automatically Categorizing Written Texts by Author Gender Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed From Irinoda Katsutoshi here at Illinois State >Dr. Shlomo Argamon of Illinois Institute of Technology (Dept. of Computer >Science) has developed a computer program that determines the sex of an >author (with an acuuracy of apporoximately 80%) by detecting subtle >differences in the words men and women prefer to use. >The details of the study is delienated in: >Moshe Koppel, Shlomo Argamon, Anat Rachel Shimoni. Automatically >Categorizing Written Texts by Author Gender. Literary and Linguistic >Computing, 17(4), 2003. >Which is retrievable at his homepage (http://ir.iit.edu/~argamon/). >It would make contribution to English studies, especially literature and >composition. > >Wired News Article >http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0503/writing_styles.asp >or http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/27/1053801370330.html > >Shlomo Argamon's HP >http://ir.iit.edu/~argamon/ ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 23:23:28 -0400 Reply-To: UB Poetics discussion group Sender: UB Poetics discussion group From: Halvard Johnson Subject: Re: most disturbing In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit { >{ I have the distinct feeling that the US is on the way out. The { >{ USAmerican Century is over. Yr president will be recalled as the { >{ quasi-human who started the end game. { >{ -- { >{ George Bowering { > { >That sort of attitude just isn't very helpful, George. { { Helpful to whom? I wasnt trying to be helpful. Just kidding you, George. "Unhelpful" and related words are Bush/Rummy-speak for such things as expressions of opposition, street demonstrations, etc. etc. Hal "I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe --I believe what I believe is right." --George W. Bush, in Rome, July 22, 2001 Halvard Johnson =============== email: halvard@earthlink.net website: http://home.earthlink.net/~halvard